try NA or AA , atleast that is anonomus(sorry I can't spell that word). There is alot more to staying clean then just putting down the pills.

I do go to aa and na, and have for several years. I know that I dont work a good program though. I am not totally convinced that I can never use again, you know, I have those reservations still that oneday I will be able to use again. I dont know, maybe I just need to go inpatient one more time! Its just so hard to admit to myself that I cant beat this on my own.

I totally understand what you mean about beating it on your own. I had a hard time admitting to myself that I couldn't do it or control it on my own. ( I'm an ex Ironworker, we never say can't,haha) But there comes a time(well it did for me) to give up and ask for help, I had to stop figuring things out for myself and listen to someone else for a change. I had to accept that I had a disease. That I had no power to stop. So I dove into the program(AA) and I do what is suggested. I don't use one day at a time. Don't worry about tommorrow and 10yrs from now. Deal with today. Sounds corny, dosen't it, but alot of the stuff I hear in AA sounds corny, but it works if I do it. I could never get clean and sober before and AA helped me to get 8yrs clean and sober, Then I relasped (that's a story in itself). But know I am clean and sober for 51/2months and that is a miracle. Thanks to AA, and the effort I put into it. You only get what you put in.                      Good luck , If all else fails Pray.

Man can I relate to you. I went through a 21 day program recently that was outpatient and felt great the day I graduated. On the way home I stopped at the pharmacy and got a refill of LorcetLorcet 10/650 to celebrate my great accomplishment.  Two days later I had taken 30 of them.  The cycle went on and on and on.  You know what I mean?  It will go on as long as you chose to do it!

I choose not to do it any more, but I have made that choice before, several times in fact. But I do feel different this time. Each time so far has gotten a little bit better. I have learned to hate this drugChemical dependence - resources
Chemotherapy
Drug abuse
Drug abuse and dependence
Drug abuse first aid
Drug allergies
Drug induced hypertension
Drug rash on the back
Drug rash, tegretol
Drug signs and teenagers
Drug-induced hypertension more each time. And I know that I cant do this on my own. So I let my counsiler in on this, not to mention my dealer, and the all important one my soon to be wife. She has been my rock, not giving up on me when I gave up on myself. And of course the one thing I know I have to do differently is to turn it over to god, god knows I have been a miserable failuir doing this on my own.

Ken, the most important thing to remember is that just because you did this again you are not a looser. I have a different view on this stuff compared to most of the people. I believe that as long as you continue to try to stay clean you are doing much better. I am sure you are like me in the sence that you look for excuses to use. I'll tell you what. This has been a screwed up week for me. Some lady wrecked my car, I didn't get approved for a schoolPreschooler development
Preschooler test
Preschooler test or procedure preparation
School age child development
School age test or procedure preparation
School-age children development loan, my mother told me I am a quitter and that I'll never amount to anything, I got a nasty sinusChronic sinusitis
Cranial ct scan
Sick sinus syndrome
Sinus x-ray
Sinuses
Sinusitis
Sinusitis - chronic infectionAcute cytomegalovirus (cmv) infection
Acute hiv infection
Asymptomatic hiv infection
Athlete's foot
Breast infection
Cellulitis
Chlamydia infections in women
Common cold
Corneal ulcers and infections
Cystitis - acute bacterial
Ear infection - acute....dude, I could go on and on. Point is this, life sucks big time! But I believe that only you can make it better. Do what you have to but remember, life on dope just complicates things. It would be so easy to get high and forget about everything. The only problem is that tommorow the same problems will be there. We both know that a person isn't meant to be high every day. Eight days clean is awesome. You already went through the detox part so that is the good news, the bad news is that if you don't stop today you are just going to have to go through it again. I can tell you that I was clean (meaning I didn't use any perks or oxy's) for like 18 days. Then I went and got high with my girlfriend for like five days. The idea that I was using again made me sickSick sinus syndrome. The main reason I was so mad at myself was the fact that I was in such painAbdominal pain
Abdominal pain diagnosis
Acupuncture and pain
Ankle pain
Anterior knee pain
Back pain - low
Bone pain or tenderness
Breast pain
Causes of painful intercourse
Chest pain
Chronic pain - resources for 6 days while going through detox. I was like, why the hell would I want to put myself through that again? Luckily, we didn't have the withdrawl like we had before. Maybe Tom could awnser why but all I know is that I was so Damm happy I didn't have to feel that way again. So we quit and haven't used since. Until yesterday...we got a couple of 40's and chewed them up. I don't know why but I can tell you this. The **** just makes us feel bad. I don't get off on them at all. Even if I am getting off I guess I am so mad for using that I don't feel it. So why use? The stuff is expensive and it just isn't the same. I can't concentrate when I am on Oxy's. I have a hard time keeping my mind on anything in particular and that drives me nuts! I wish I had an awnser for you but I don't. I can tell you this. If the drugsChemical dependence - resources
Chemotherapy
Drug abuse
Drug abuse and dependence
Drug abuse first aid
Drug allergies
Drug induced hypertension
Drug rash on the back
Drug rash, tegretol
Drug signs and teenagers
Drug-induced hypertension are making everything in your life so bad then only you can change it. No program is going to work for you if you don't want to quit. I feel like a complete ******* for taking that pill today and for that reason I know that it will be a long time before I take another one. At least another day or two. HA HA, just tryin' to keep it light..We all have the power to stop. For me I know that I can't leadLead poisoning a productive life while taking pills. I have acomplished more in theese past couple of weeks then I have for the last three years. So that tells me something. If I stay clean then my life will only improve. I am to the point where the only thing that matters is a better future for my girlfriend and I. You have to stop to give yourself a chance to see what life is like straight. I am not saying that you have to stop forever but if you are like me then you know that we can't just do one line and thats it. There are people out there like that but I know I'm not one of them. It sounds like you are like me. So take it easy on yourself. Don't feel bad about the relapse. Wake up tommorow and don't use any. Trust me, I don't think that you are physiccaly addicted again. Probably just mentally. Try to get throgh all moring without anything and take it from there. You will see that you will feel fine and then you can make a desission not to use for the rest of the day. By Saturday you will be backBack pain - low
Back strain treatment to your normal self. Good luck man, I'll be on-line all night if you need to talk....Do you have ICQ? Chad

Dude if you feel like **** when you use, why do you keep using? I feel great when I use that's why I relapse.You say you two feel like puking and stuff when you take them? I don't get it.Did you say you were going to get into computers? They have this cool feature: Spell checking !!

Try it out man, it works great.

You sound exactly like me. EXACTLY. I can't stop either, Ken, I just stopped trying.  FirstFirst progesterone mc10
First progesterone mc5
First-progesterone vgs 200
First-progesterone vgs 400 I tried the "taper" method, cutting down to just 2 pills in the morning.  That lasted about 3 days.  See, my problem is that is have 4 people who go to doctors each month and they all call me! It's so hard for me to say no, when they call.  You wanna talk about tolerance? I'm only 5 feet, 110 pounds, and eat 5 pills at a time, up to 25 a day. And I still don't get that high that I used to.  Its a wonder I haven't OD'd yet. I had my bags packed ready to go to re-hab where they used buprenex to detox ya, but I knew I'd cave in once I got home and the stupid phone rang.  I feel like Alice falling down the rabbit hole. I envy all the ex-addicts who are now "clean and sober" livingAdvanced care directives normal lives.  I want that so bad. Why can't we stop,Ken? I have a good job, husband, health, so there are no underlying problems.  I didn't get anything out of the NA meetings, only a free cup of coffee. I know I sound so hell bent on not being able to stop. I have had a least 2 pills in my system every day for the past 9 months. Monday I copped 30, and tried to "save" them for the weekend. They lasted 8 hours.  How am I doing? I'm so glad I found this website. All these other people addicted just like me. I don't feel so alone. Well, gotta eat another perc. 20 minutes has passed.  If you can figure something out, I'm all earsEar barotrauma
Ear discharge
Ear emergencies
Ear examination
Ear tube insertion
Ear tube insertion - series.

These words of wisdom were sent to me in another forum and I had to share them with you , by the way I go by Buck in the other forum.Yeah, Buck. You've been through hell. And its hard to know what to say to someone who has experienced your level of painAbdominal pain
Abdominal pain diagnosis
Acupuncture and pain
Ankle pain
Anterior knee pain
Back pain - low
Bone pain or tenderness
Breast pain
Causes of painful intercourse
Chest pain
Chronic pain - resources.

I had a sociology professor who told me something I only recently learned to understand, to internalize. He said, "You only learn who you are, what you are made of, by experiencing the big, BIG contrasts." For years, I thought about that...clueless, absolutely clueless. But I think I get it now. You say, "Why do I have to be an addict? Why me?" Well, maybe, Buck, you have to be an addict so that in time, soon, perhaps, you can be something much greater, something you could only be after visiting hell and surviving: someone, as Fred says, with NO FEARFears and phobias, someone, as JIMC told me, "who battled the devilDevil"s claw and won."



In that war, Buck, there will be power like none you've ever know. You will beat this addictionDrug abuse and dependence. Like Domino, you "will kick [it]in the ass." You will rise up above it. You will have...no fearFears and phobias.



Now, without this demon-thing to fight, could you ever acquire such strength? Doubt it. All the great poets, writers, philosphers made this assertion--from the earliest writings, (Beowulf, The Wanderer: "No man may know wisdom until many a winter has been his fortune") to, well, something I read in the paper yesterday, "It is hell that, ultimately, will set you free."



You're going to make it, Buck. But you have to believe it...maybe even, "Fake it until you make it." (Tell yourself you're strong, invincible, a survivor even when you feel your weakest.)



Be brave.

There is another forum that is very helpful. Not that this one isnt. But I need all the support I can get. here is the link:   http://neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002274.html

I've been fighting this addictionDrug abuse and dependence thing for a long time as have you.  I've had many relapses and each time it does get easier for me. Everything in life gets easier the longer you live. Things that would keep me awake nights in worry, I now just take in stride and keep going. It's called experience.  Yeah, I still feel guilty about popping a few pills today but the feeling goes away shortly. I have been joy popping for about 5 years now and have never gone full blown addicted as I once was. I guess I'm bad but that's just me take it or leave it. No where in the Bible does it say that we have to be perfectPerfect choice.  I heard a saying that reminded me of Chad at an AA meeting--"There's nothing as pitiful as an alcoholic with a headHead and face reconstruction
Head injury
Head lice
Indications of head injury
Radial head injury full of AA and a belly full of booze!".  Think of all the guilt and shame we go through when we fail despite of all of our promises,hard work, hopes for future sobriety. I don't fault a man for getting knocked down but despise the man who will not get up again after being knocked down. Keep trying, man!

Ken your main problem is you are to busy thinking about what people think about you.  You probably started doing them because of what your peers thought.  And now you won't get help because of what your relatives might say.  Let's get more concern with building up your self esteem, and getting yourself the help you deserve. Realizing you are more important than all your fearsFears and phobias is half your battle and getting of the dope is the other half.  I love you.

JB, I don't get your refrence to me?

Angie, how have you been doing?

You may be right to a certain extent. If you read my posts in the other forum you would know more about me and my problems. And what my abuseAlcoholism
Chemical dependence - resources
Child abuse - physical
Child abuse - sexual
Child neglect and psychological abuse
Drug abuse
Drug abuse and dependence
Drug abuse first aid
Family troubles - resources
Laxative overdose
Signs of drug abuse stemsStem cell research from.  I will get it rather than write it all over again. brb

I want to start by apologizing, I am sorry for my comments I made about c/p. I have had a very hard time trying to stop using. But it is not a good excuse for being insensitive. Some things in my life have made me a bit numb. And I always medicated to not have to deal with the emotions that come with tragedies ,and lately I’ve had all of these emotions come out and I don’t know how to deal with them. So if I have been a bit harsh to some I truly am sorry.

I began using very young and my brother and I were almost inseparable , we were close in age and did a lot of parting together. A few years ago on a duck hunting trip we were partying after hunting and didn’t put our guns away, when my gun fell and went off and killed my brother, Needless to say I was devastaded , and I went into a deep depressionAdolescent depression
Bipolar disorder
Depression
Depression - elderly
Depression - resources
Depression among the elderly
Depression and heart disease
Depression and insomnia
Depression and men
Depression and the menstrual cycle
Depression in children and began to use drugsChemical dependence - resources
Chemotherapy
Drug abuse
Drug abuse and dependence
Drug abuse first aid
Drug allergies
Drug induced hypertension
Drug rash on the back
Drug rash, tegretol
Drug signs and teenagers
Drug-induced hypertension and alcoholAlcohol and diet
Alcoholism
Alcoholism - resources
Breath alcohol test
Delirium tremens
Fetal alcohol syndrome heavily. My wife at the time couldn’t take my behaviorAutistic behavior
Behavior - unusual or strange
Bulimia
Hyperactivity
Suicide and suicidal behavior
Temper tantrums and decided to start seeing someone else. To my disbelief it turned out to be another woman. So I fell deeper into a depressionAdolescent depression
Bipolar disorder
Depression
Depression - elderly
Depression - resources
Depression among the elderly
Depression and heart disease
Depression and insomnia
Depression and men
Depression and the menstrual cycle
Depression in children and my addictionDrug abuse and dependence. But now I am trying very hard to begin a new way of life. I have a wonderful woman who I love very much and 3 beautiful daughters. So if I seem a bit bitter , or cold , I am sorry. I just don’t like to hear about how many people get to take drugsChemical dependence - resources
Chemotherapy
Drug abuse
Drug abuse and dependence
Drug abuse first aid
Drug allergies
Drug induced hypertension
Drug rash on the back
Drug rash, tegretol
Drug signs and teenagers
Drug-induced hypertension for their problems and I cant for mine. My wounds are deep too you just can’t see them.

This is some of my story, and Chad I downloaded ICQ but I dont know how to use it yet , My E-mail is ***@**** Write if you want to chat.

holy **** Ken that is a horror story. I'm so sorry man. How DO you cope.I hate guns because I have a friend with the exact story. I can understand you getting cranky. I'm sure you went through much emotional hell. I really do wish you the best, I can't even begin to think of dealing with that. I don't think you owe any apologies. I've written a few mean ones to Chad just trying to shake him up enough to look at the problems people are dealing with. Not that his aren't bad, but for two weeks he just whined about those scripts waiting for us to say"go for it dude ". He did anyway, a lot of people tried to help and I got pissed that early on he didn't even ask about anybody else. Now he seems genuinely concerned about others and came backBack pain - low
Back strain treatment and admitted he is using.Like we didn't know.there is a world of sorrow and hurt out there as you well know. Sorry to hear that story. Chad don't bum on me I know withdrawl is a self centered process...I was going through it again when I wrote nasty. That sure as hell wasn't me about your spelling problem either dude. Keep your headHead and face reconstruction
Head injury
Head lice
Indications of head injury
Radial head injury up. How's your mate coping, does she post.Have her write something for a change bro, so we can get a different perspective.Can you tell I got my oxys today.Talking like i know it all babyBabies and heat rashes
Baby feeding patterns.Ken, bless ya man!!

Hey guys, sorry if I sounded if I only cared about myself. It is hard to focus on anyone else when you are going through such a horrible thing. As time went on I started posting to others concerning themselves. The problem is that I find it hard to offer help when I myself so screwed up. I know I did wrong by those scripts. I should have burned them from the start like so many of you suggested. I guess I wasn't truly ready to quit at the time. You know, I've been through so much with these damm drugsChemical dependence - resources
Chemotherapy
Drug abuse
Drug abuse and dependence
Drug abuse first aid
Drug allergies
Drug induced hypertension
Drug rash on the back
Drug rash, tegretol
Drug signs and teenagers
Drug-induced hypertension. I am no different than any of you when it comes to that. It is important for everyone to realize that I got alot of help from the stuff you guys told us. Some of it wasn't what I wanted to hear but it was true. The one thing I told myself was that I should never lie to you guys. If I truly wanted help then what would I benifit from doing so? I know that it would be cool to write that I never did another drugChemical dependence - resources
Chemotherapy
Drug abuse
Drug abuse and dependence
Drug abuse first aid
Drug allergies
Drug induced hypertension
Drug rash on the back
Drug rash, tegretol
Drug signs and teenagers
Drug-induced hypertension but that simply would have defeated the entire process. My girlfriend and I go through so much bullshit when it comes to drugsChemical dependence - resources
Chemotherapy
Drug abuse
Drug abuse and dependence
Drug abuse first aid
Drug allergies
Drug induced hypertension
Drug rash on the back
Drug rash, tegretol
Drug signs and teenagers
Drug-induced hypertension. You know how hard it is to deal with one persons demons let alone two? The point is, I screwed up when I took those oxy's when the script was due. In a sickSick sinus syndrome way I am kind of glad that I did. I believe that it made me realize once again how theese pills can sneak up on you. I mean, one day I'm like wow, I can use them and have no detox period. I get them free so that solves that problem. In other words, I make a bunch of excuses as to why these pills benifit me. I know thats the addictionDrug abuse and dependence talking. Even though I can't spell to well I would like to believe that I am a smart man. I have made many mistakes and will probably make alot more. This addictionDrug abuse and dependence of mine will never go away. I am not fooling myself. I want to say something. I have another doctors apt. comming up in a week. Even though I know the value of the pills to both my own addictionDrug abuse and dependence and the cost. I will sacrafice that for the betterment of my life. I know realize that I can no longer be around that ****. A friend of mine came over the other day and he looked like ****. Don't get me wrong. He has a succesful job with the Philadelphia police dept. A beautiful house and a wife with two kids. But guess what? All of that don't mean **** when you have 600 mils. of oxy pumping through your body. I just sat backBack pain - low
Back strain treatment and thought how sadDepression it is for him. Why am I any different? Just because I can get off on two or three 20's a day doesn't make me better than him. His life is almost gone due to the pills and he doesn't even know it. I refuse to contribute to his downfall and told him so. He lost his mind and cursed me out. But I think I made it better for him in the sence that it will be harder for him to get his pills. Maybe one day he will stop. I hope you guys understand what I am saying. How could I be so hiprocrictial, saying that drugsChemical dependence - resources
Chemotherapy
Drug abuse
Drug abuse and dependence
Drug abuse first aid
Drug allergies
Drug induced hypertension
Drug rash on the back
Drug rash, tegretol
Drug signs and teenagers
Drug-induced hypertension are bad and then turn around and sell them. I swear I will never sell one more pill. So why ever go backBack pain - low
Back strain treatment to that doctor? I never want to use them so I figure I have no need for them. I hope it works...Time will tell....Talk soon, CHAD

Just replace the word alcoholAlcohol and diet
Alcoholism
Alcoholism - resources
Breath alcohol test
Delirium tremens
Fetal alcohol syndrome with Oxy and maybe it'll make more sense. That's the insanity of the whole trip. Guilt, fearFears and phobias, confusionConfusion
Delirium.  The fact is we know better and still do all these dumb things. I once sold some stuff to a friend of mine and then tried to buy it backBack pain - low
Back strain treatment the next day when I got sickSick sinus syndrome and had nothing to stop my withdrawals