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MedHelp Member's Question

Hydrocodone and ethanol abuse

by Frank, Jan 21, 2001 12:00AM
I am a 48 year old male with a chronic back condition (multiple HNPs). I began recieving hydrocodone for back pain when the condition was diagnosed and the pain was acute. It no longer is, I function well 99 percent of the time with stretches and exersize. The problem is I began to abuse the hydrocodone.In addition I am a heavy drinker. For the last 4 years I have been drinking 4+ drinks a day and taking 4 norcos a day. I realize this is abuse. I can not enter into rehab for professional reasons - my career would end. I am trying to find a pen pal to help me through this. I am also trying to find a way to detox. I have a plan which will in a period of 3 weeks titer down on the hydros untill I am off them. In addition I will decrease the ethanol and start taking antibuse I have obtained (I've taken antibuse before). I can not I repeat, cannot seek medical help in person at this point. Once I am off the etoh and hydros I will get a liver profile - I fear I've completely damaged it. My family life and professional life has begun to suffer - I can't concentrate or retain as well.



I would appreciate any constructive advice on how to get off these pills and any resources to contact. I am fully responsible for this additicion so please don't flame me or attack my character - I already know what I've done. I just want avenues of assistance here or through a pen pal.



Thanks for listening.



Frank.
Member Comments (37)

by Frank, Jan 21, 2001 12:00AM
Thanks for your response, I really appreciate it and I am very motiviated. May I ask a potentially outrageous question. I can probably procure Buprenorphine from overseas pharmacy. Does it only come in IM mechanism - the idea of injecting anything scares me, or are there po methods. Consiering I could find proper directions of administering it myself, what are the dangers, feasiblity etc. in your opinon. I am not asking for medical treatement, just opinions.



Also, I am still wondering if there are pen pals for such a  process as I am attemtping.

Thanx

by Frank, Jan 21, 2001 12:00AM
Guess this is a rather pedestrian post given the minimum response. I do appreciate your response Dr. Steve ( I did go to your site), but I am still wondering if there is an agent I can use to help with detox. Other unanswered questions - what's the likelihood given my history that my liver is history?



Is my use of hydrocodone and ethanol excessive, borderline, nothing to worry about etc..? Can I purchase a liver profile, bloodwork on the net without a local MD (again, this is motiviated by concerns for my livlihood)?



I am fully aware that I have limited my options by choosing not to go to a counselor or a facility - but I don't think I am alone with this problem.



In addition, if there are no 'pen pals' (perhaps one could call them virtual counselors)I would suggest the idea has potential.



Anyway, you guys have a very nice board and I appreciate it.If anyone else has some advice, I'm all ears. I could use the help.



Thank you again,



Frank

by tom to Frank, Jan 21, 2001 12:00AM
actually, there's nothing pedestrian about your posts.



Almost all of us are addicted to some kind of rx opiate, usually hydrocodone, can't get off the stuff by ourselves, and are often concerned about liver damage.



I would love to be your pen pal for detoxing with bup but I live in a primitive region of the world called California. Private doctors can't prescribe bup or methadone for the treatment of addiction, only pain.



I, too, cannot openly go the detox route without jeopardizing my professional standing.



Even if I could wangle the bup from overseas, I still wouldn't know enough to use it without professional supervision.



In California, I can go to a methadone clinic, something I might have to do by default, or I can wait until the promised legal clearances go through to allow me to go to a private doctor to be treated. I have been unsuccessful in finding anyone who knows when this will become legal, if ever.



You can find posts by Maryanne in several threads on this site She has been going to a Dr Gooberman, who practices in another state, and is in the middle of the whole detox by bup process. I'm sure if you addresses her she would be glad to correspond.



If you do get all this figured out, I could use a "bup pen pal," too. Good luck.

by Frank, Jan 21, 2001 12:00AM
Thanks Tom. I appreciate the reassurance. This is an unsusually constructive board. I will persue the overseas b. route as well as the pen pal option ( learned a little about both today from the NA site and other boards) and will share here if that's ok. Again, thanks for the positive response. It's quite a road to hoe.



F.

by To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne, Jan 22, 2001 12:00AM
First let me say that I am happy for you that you've made the decision to quit abusing alcohol and hydrocodone.  I was drinking and taking them myself.  I'll tell you what I did:  first I quit drinking - tapered actually then quit altogether.  I was "clean" from alcohol for about two weeks when I started my "at home detox" with buprenorphine.  The doctor gave me 3 injections of buprenorphine to take SUBCUTANEOUSLY or "skin popping" injection.  I had no opiates after midnight then started the next morning.  I was to take one per day (at the same time each day) for 3 days.  Along with that he gave me baclofen pills for muscle aches and clonidine for "withdraw symptoms"  I now know that the clonidine is used because your bloodpressure will go up (extrememly high sometimes)  I took the pills everyday as prescribed along with the buprenorphine.  I started this on Tuesday of last week and on Friday morning woke up with a POUNDING headache - went to the ER and OH JOY - turned out that I had a bad case of sinusitis!  So the detox went well until Friday.  I was very scared to start and understand where you are coming from.  If you type "Lance Gooberman" into the address bar on your computer then click on US OPIATE DETOX link - you will get detailed info on this type of detox.  I went to the doc and gave a fake name and no social security number to protect my identity.  I am worried about you and hope you fare well.  Listen, it was good to know that I could call Dr Gooberman to ask questions when I wasn't sure about something so please consider going thru a doc.  What state do you live in? Maybe there is a detox center near you.  I thought that when I was on my way to the ER (with my AA sponsor) that I was going to be admitted to "Princeton House" for inpatient detox then found out that what I was experiencing was actually a "sinus infection"!  So today I feel okay just have a headache (to be expected) but am on antibiotics for the s.i.  but as far as the pills go - I am thanking God I am off them and DON'T EVER WANT TO TAKE ANOTHER ONE AGAIN!  Good luck, I will be waiting to here how things are going.

by J.B. to Brian and Vicky, Jan 22, 2001 12:00AM
I wouldn't worry too much about any significant liver damage just yet.  Four drinks and four Norcos per day for four years doesn't seem like a lot to me.  Alcohol and acetaminophine combos are hard on the liver, however, and it would be wise to not abuse these substances.  The liver does have the ability to heal, given help.



I've had to give myself IM meds in the past and it's not that tough after the first time.  I administered in my upper thighs using a micro needle.  At first it was scary but you get used to it.  My doctor RX'd me Emla Cream(lidocaine&prilocaine 2.5%)to deaden the area before administration.



I wouldn't try to quit both hydrocodone and alcohol at the same time.  Personally I would concentrate on alcohol first and later on, the hydro.  I've seen people try to quit alcohol and nicotine for example and it's just too much to handle when they are just starting out.  Good luck to you!

by Frank, Jan 22, 2001 12:00AM


Tom, Maryanne, JB and all. Again, I really feel as if I can do this thing. Maryanne, I am afraid of yet another analgesic agent so I am skipping the sources for now. I may have to resort to them so thanks for such clear advice re: options. And I was really inspired listening to you!



I am just going to titer down to damn near nothing w/ hydros and, JB I agree stopping hydros and etoh at the same time is unrealistic. As soon as my antibuse arrives I plan to titer down in a week and stop the etoh then, much longer, probably a month for the hydros. My problem will be delusions - thinking I can up a dose one day etc. I will have to be vigilant. Would you guys mind letting me vent here? For the first time in a long while I feel I am not alone and there are intelligent, empathetic folks who can help.Thanks again.



F,

by cindi, Jan 22, 2001 12:00AM
Frank,  I just read your post and all the responses. These are all very reliable people and this is a site I have come to respect.  We are all in this together.  When I was first detoxed in 1990, I was working in a very large hospital with some top surgeons etc.  I kept my "secret" to myself with the idea that I would sit with needles sticking out of my body til I was 95 years Old.  An intervention was done and i was "sent" to rehab.  I soon found out that this place I went to was for Professional, Nurses, Doc, lawyers, judges etc.  I realize how you feel given your profession etc. but many, many professionals are victims of the disease of addiction.  Someone mentioned in another thread that chronic pain people are involuntary victims is the way I think he phrased it.  I never really looked at it that way.  You are very adamant that professional help is not an option for yu and I respect that, but please, do not let that get in the way of perhaps saving your life one day.   Take care and Good Luck.   Cindi

by tom to Frank, Jan 22, 2001 12:00AM
vent here? ah, well .....OK. (you're here for the same reason as the rest of us and venting is what this forum is especially good for!)



Even though we all have the same disease, there is always something every addict's story can teach.



Way Good luck with the hydro tapering. While waiting for buprenorphine to come to California in the private doctor setting, I "maintain" myself, that is, I function and do my job and pay my bills and stay involved with my family through daily, measured doses of Darvon and occasional Xanax (occasional meaning 4 a day). The irony is not lost on me that Darvon is chemically related to methadone. Unfortunately, it doesn't off the across the board relief that methadone maintenance would. I've been an rx opiate addict for 30 years (thirty), so whatever measure I do take will have to be "serious medicine."



Tapering for me? I've found it next to impossible to make it stick for long, as my 30-year record of opiate use will attest to.



Even if I can get the bup detox, I'll still need an industrial-strength AA/NA program to stay away from the stuff. From that perspective, methadone maintenance might be the "surer" of bets for me. I've checked out the clinics in my area, all 2 of them, but will only be accepted by one of them if I bring a note from my doctor, effectively cutting off the only legal supply of darvon that I have. I have the option of getting "certified" by another doc, then going to the clinic. But the finality of methadone maintenance both attracts and scares me. If possible, I'm going to give the bup cure a try first.



But, yes, vent away. All us rx addicts are more than happy to talk about our experiences and listen to yours.

by From Aunt Lindy to Mariah, Jan 22, 2001 12:00AM
Cindi, would you mind saying what state that your rehab was in?  Thanks I hope that it is not too personal a question.

Thanks,

Shelly

by tom to Maryanne, Jan 23, 2001 12:00AM
I didn't realize you did the false ID thing with Gooberman. I'm impressed. But doesn't that highlight how ridiculous this whole treatment situation is? It's available everywhere, but having the problem is still so socially unacceptable that we're all afraid to use the help. Hope you're doing fine.

by Marryanne, Jan 23, 2001 12:00AM
I am doing great.  I feel like a slave who was set free!  I was ready to stop and had hit my bottom.  Now I feel like I'm on top of the world.  The sinusitis in under control with a major antibiotic and my sponsor sort of made me "Rat myself out" to the ER in Princeton - so there it is, I am an opiate addict on record but honestly, I do not care.  For I am finally free.  I've been going to daily meetings and find this is the only way for me right now.  I don't have any inkling to want to put a pill in my mouth - NOT AT ALL.  I am so grateful to be outta the mess I was in and was SO sick on Friday, Saturday that I NEVER want to feel that way again!  I'm not sure if I was sick from the sinusitis or withdraw or combo but I know I don't want to go back there...Anyway, I am tempted to drink alcohol now so that's what I have to be careful of...it will lead me back, I know it.  So, for now, daily meetings, working out and praying are a part of my program.  Take care and good luck to you when you decide what you are going to do.           God Bless, Maryanne

by from me to Skorchee, Jan 23, 2001 12:00AM
Why not drive down to Mexico, pick up some Buprenex tablets and do this yourself? Hell, they may have the syringes. You're in So.Cal so it's not a far drive. Take 2 days and go check it out. Be as honest as you want down there or not. I have definitely seen Buprenex available at "over the border" pharmacy sites on the web...thinking that there might be syringes available down there is definitely NOT far fetched. I don't know if you've thought of this already, but you should try it. I've purchased narcotics in Mexico w/o a prescription and while it is a little dodgy, it didn't seem too out of the ordinary. I think if you actually went and saw a doctor down there, you would definitely get what you need. Money really helps in these situations down there too. Anyway, just a thought. - You know who.

by tom to Maryanne, Jan 23, 2001 12:00AM
so happy to hear how well you're doing! Sounds like you've got a pro-active sponsor, too, which helps. Not everyone, even after a lot of sobriety and a good personal program, makes an effective sponsor.



It's certainly sounds like bup is the way to go!



It's