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Addiction: Substance Abuse Community
This community is a place to share information and support with others who are trying to stop using drugs, prescription drugs, alcohol, tobacco or other addictive substances. Discuss with others, the symptoms of addiction, addiction recovery, ways to quit like tapering and cold turkey, and withdrawal symptoms. If you are interested in general "chat", please visit our Addiction Social Community.
Tapering
by dreams in digital, Sep 08, 2001 12:00AM
Long time Listener, new caller... O.K., here's my question. I know that logically it would seem that if you have tapered down to 2 es's a day after taking 10 a day, your withdrawal symptoms would not be as severe. I still wake up feeling as bad after only taking my maintenance dose as I did when I was abusing them. Has anyone any thoughts on this nastiness?
I do about 10 bags a day, and I am going cold turkey starting tomorrow morning, tonight will be my last bag. This is not by choice obviously, I would love to go to a detox faciltily and get weaned off with Methadone or something like Buprenex, but my insurance won't cover me anymore. That's a long annoying story of its own that none of would enjoy hearing anyway, LOL. Anyway, I have a ton of xanax here, and a few muscle relaxers. Has anyione gone cold turkey off of a lot of heroin. I have gone cold turkey before withdrawling from Percocets, and Vicodin, and Lorcets, but never the Heroin. I have been doing it consistently for almost 3 months now. I believe 3 months ago I was clean for about 2 weeks. But since then I have been doing it all day every day. I dont shoot it, I only snort, as if that is something to be proud of, LOL. Any response would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Dreams....how fast have you been tapering? My doc told me that if I went down one pill every three days, I would not even notice any discomfort. I was not able to handle that kind of taper...couldn't fight the temptation to take more, so I went the mostly cold turkey route (though in my withdrawal week I did take a small amount at night to sleep..like, half a vic.) If you are doing a fast taper, I think you are going to experience nasty withdrawal sickness no matter what.
Have you tried the detox recipe that Thomas has given us on this site? The supplements really help. Please post more about how much you were taking, for how long, and how fast your taper was, and maybe one of us will be able to answer your question. Good luck...I'm very recently clean, and finally feeling human again!
Joel..I've not got much to offer you, since I never did heroin...I'm a hydrocodone addict, so I really don't know much about the difference between the two. I do know that there are great folks on this forum who have detoxed from heroin, and hopefully one of them will pipe in. I want to encourage you to read the detox recipe from Thomas that is posted a bit below, and try to use it ..it should help..and please, post, let us know how you are, and remember that we are here to give you as much non judgemental caring support as you are willing to take from us.
Nice to meet you both and I look forward to hearing more from you.
WW
WW - I hope your pain is not too bad today. I am so proud of you I wish I had the strength to quit like you did and not taper like I am Oh well if it works it works right?
I've been deep in narcotic addiction for 4, well more like 5 years. I think that what happened was a very spiritual thing for me.
Two things made me make the choice to stop.
This forum, and reading all your stories, and the non judgemental compassionate support. I lurked on this site since January of 2001...and didn't start posting till July, about a month after my surgery.
My spiritual/magickal work. I was sitting at my altar, praying to the Goddess that I work with. It was a new moon, a time that to me represents new beginings. I "got" a very clear, deep message from my higher power that it was Time. The message was so clear, there was no doubting it. So, I surrendered to it, and I also knew I had the support here to get me through it.
So I really can't say it is strength alone that did it for me. I think it was just the right time for me. For years now I've been waiting for the right time. I've tried to stop before and couldn't, and plus I had the surgery upcoming. I also had the luxury of time off work, with no responsibilites. I knew I'd not have that again for a long time. I go back to work in a week and a half..soon as my chair comes in.
I just think that when it is the right time, you just know. I guess... I don't know..I'm a baby at this recovery stuff lol
Maybe it is different for each and everyone of us. I do know that the fact that no one here pressured me to stop or not stop made the world of difference..I felt supported in making my own choices, and accepted no matter what. Don't anyone underestimate the gift you gave me with that unconditional acceptance..it may very well have saved my life.
I also know that I am very vulnerable to relapse and need to keep working my butt off to stay in the freedom and light that this path of recovery offers. You, and every one else here, are a huge part of that.
Don't beat yourself up for not being off the meds yet. Just keep listening to your heart and staying open to miracles.
lots and love,
WW
Someone responded saying that he should be albe to just stop it and count his blessings, to quote "if ultram is the only thing you crave, you have no problem and should count your blessings"
I posted a nice, but clear post responding to this, as I felt that was a horrible way to treat a cry for help and I've learned ultram is very addicting and hard to get off. Now this other poster is condescendingly asking me why I am so persistant in the face of the real truth that ultram is not an addictive narcotic, and I must not have experience with real heavy drugs. OI!!!!
I'm going to drop it, not respond. It is pissing me off too much.
Just needed to vent...
thanks,
WW
I'm so sorry the depression is surrounding you these days..I wish there was some magick wand that could be waved, to banish the grey haze and let you experience the brilliant loving light that is always within you.
Just wanted you to know that I"m thinking of you and wishing you love and light.
WW
But it sounds like you're in control of your dosage, so it's your decision whether to increase it again and re-start tapering... By the way, I'm beginning to think of tapering as a greatly overrated solution... or at least over-used as a panacea for just any addiction. If I were a recovering heroin addict, I'd want to switch to methadone and just stay on a big, fat dose indefinitely. I guess by now, you've discovered I was a drug-fiend long before I was a chronic pain patient.
Try to spend the next week in a hot Jacuzzi ... or at least hot bath … watch some really good, engrossing movies, too. If possible watch 'em from the Jacuzzi (what the hell, no one said this couldn't be fun!).
My all-time favorite detox movies are:
Huston's Treasure of the Sierra Madre - From the first frame, you're in world of characters easily worse off then you are; then the music kicks in and you're on an adventure (with guns) - But Huston's treatment of Williams's Night of the Iguana must get honorable mention. Babenco's At Play in the Fields of the Lord, Hitchcock's Psycho for obvious reasons, Zimmerman and Hepburn's The Nun's Story, Eastwood and Forrest Whittaker's Byrd and the detoxer or all detox movies, Kubrick's Dr. Strangelove (the sanest movie ever made) - do that plus a judicious amount of one type of benzo (valium, librium, xanax, ativan, klonopin - they'll all work, but use only one kind!). ..
It's easy: taper your benzos at a slightly slower rate than you vicodin taper, so as to leave yourself with a few extras benzos for the inevitable post-detox jitters.
Of, course, if you can't beg, borrow or steal a week or a day off work and somebody's apartment in which to do this, then you better just hit yourself with 3 to 4 thousand mg's of L-Tyrosine capsules plus B6 first thing in the morning and don't eat for an hour or go to work for another, still.
WARNING: DON TAKE L-TYROSINE IF YOU'RE ON AN ANTI-DEPRESSANT OF THE SSRI CLASS (hate them), LIKE PORZAC, PAXIL, EFFEXOR, CAN'T THINK OF ANY MORE).
Don't be surprised if the dose gives you the runs. It will happen quickly, plus you can just add two Imodium's with the Tyrosine to avoid it happening again … You can read my complete recipe somewhere in a few of these threads, or just read this for now: Your brain is depleted of dopamine (which I'm a HUGE fan of) and norepinephrine. The former is necessary if you're ever to feel pleasure in your life again.
Get this at the health food store, they all have it: The L-Tyrosine (not L-Lysine!) - 500 mg caps x100) - plus enough B6 to take with the L-Tyrosine each morning to improve absorption - this will typically give you a fairly dramatic mood lift, a general feeling of well being and increased mental and physical energy. I take between 100 and 200 mg of B6 with the L-Tyrosine but can't tell any difference. -- Don't drink any coffee that morning. Also take zinc and magnesium supplements for a year or more after your detox - I believe that was pillpoppa's advice …
And be your own judge on dosage, 4,000 mg of L-Tyrosine has been used safely many, many times, but you may not need 4000 mg at a time to get the effect you need. Your body uses the amino acid L-Tyrosine to eventually manufacture dopamine for its pleasure/reward system, or whatever we're calling it now. You may experience a headache from 4000 mg, especially if you're a senior of low body weight.
- Don't like to send people off half-cocked! Talk to your doc first, and then take only what you need. It's not a state secret.
Good talking to you. Feel better. Look around this forum, you'll find lots of good people full of good advice ..
Thomas
When my grandmother died, I was only 19, and found my mother sobbing and sobbing...I sat next to her and just listened, and she said to me "Now there is no one on earth who will ever really care if my shoes fit or not", and she cried some more. I think that there is a special kind of love that mothers offer that we don't really understand until it is no longer there. Even though my own mother drives me nuts and hurt me badly with her alcoholism, I love her dearly (she has been sober since I was 12) and reading how much you miss your mom helps me remember to appreciate my own while I still have her.
Cindi, I know you probably don't need a lot of advice, but just be very gentle and loving toward yourself, and please know that I'm sending magick sparkles, rainbows, and love and light to you..they may not be the same as Wiz's, but they are sent with genuine love and care.
WW
I seem to remember reading that you are a psychologist. You don't have to answer this, of course, but … I'm, curious about something: how do you feel when you have to address your patient's chemical dependency problems? I suppose you could "go on automatic" and react as you've been trained, but still it must be, to use a medical term, "weird"… I know you don't prescribe, but you certainly have to deal with patients on various meds.
I'm interested in what you'd do about a patient whose problem is simply drug addiction. In every other way, he fits the norm -- wife, family, career. In respect to any law that doesn't stand between him and his medicine, he is a law-abiding citizen. He also manages to have one or two kicks from time to time.
How would you react if the patient proved to you after a lengthy psychoanalysis that he simply loved opiates - loved opiates with the intensity a man feels for a woman?
That's how it is for me- god forgive me. I truthfully can't remember a higher-high or a purer experience of love for life in all my 47 years than on those trips back home from the pharmacy, that first dose washing over me, the music guiding us home.
Don't spare my feelings, either. Don't forget, I worked in Advertising in the early 90's.
Your friend,
Tom
Today I had to go to family member house to let dogs out while they are on vacation. I go into the house and right on the kitchen counter are 3 new/full prescriptions. 1 of Vic's, 1 of T4's, and another of generic hydro 10/600. Just sitting there. It was like some sort of joke. But actually for her back as was in car accident recently. Well, I was a good boy but......AAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH! That was terrible. I sat and looked at them for 15 minutes. Opened em, closed em, read them...over and over. Will I be like this the rest of my life whenever I see these or something happens like this???
thanks for any input. 3 more days and I'm down to 0. Thanks to everyone, I know I could not have gotten as far as I have without being able to read all your great posts and support to each other. Durty