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Therapeutic vs. Recreational Use
by kstuebin, Oct 05, 2001 12:00AM
Is there a difference between using a drug for a medical reason and using a drug to get high. Do the lines between the two blur together in some cases? Is is possible to just take a drug as prescribed or is tolerance always going to develop leading to more and more? Do you take the drug because it alleviates your discomfort and is that the same as taking it to get high, (discounting pain)... I mean more like releiving anxiety. So many folks here on pain meds who need them trying to get off. Why? Why am I trying to stop since I feel worse now than before? I realize this is not just one question but a whole series and I may be the only person here interested in the this so feel free to ignore this question and talk about anything you want. Although, I would appreciate feedback if you have any.
As a disclaimer, everything I've just said is against all NA/AA philosophy. If a person can stay clean and manage the pain for two weeks, why not just quit altogether? Some can. J.B. can't.
I'm so sorry to bust into this thread as your question is an important one. My life experiences have told me that at times there is a very fine line between taking a particular drug as prescribed for pain/anxiety or whatever the reason the medication was prescribed in the first place - and it blurring into chasing that proverbial high. I firmly believe that there are certain conditions that warrant relief via narcotics or benzos. The problem arrises when we start to experiment with the dosages. Most of us end up on that treadmill. If I can please take the time to try to explain my situation maybe you all can help me put things into perspective.
I've been here at this forum for years- vocal on and off but mostly silent as I read and read everything you all have to say. Some of you might remember me, I hope so.
Here is some background- I'll try to be brief.
I'm a chronic pain patient with RA, Fibromyalgia and RSD. I've been sick for about 7 years and on some form of narcotic pain relief the entire time. I'd never abused my meds and most times have taken less than the prescribed dose. As my condition deteriorated I was put on oxycontin. 30mg or 40mg twice a day. I did at one time start to experiment with my oxy, chewing them and running out before the end of the month. I went cold turkey-had some withdrawal and cleaned up my act. I talked to my doctor and it was decided, mutually , that it was in my best interest to take my oxycontin as prescribed- and I've done just that. Funny thing - I never got high from them - even when I chewed them. Here's where the HELL starts...
A year ago I was noticing that although I wasn't abusing I was running out of meds before the end of the month. My husband suggested that maybe *I* was taking extras. I am so stupid to have fallen for that. I turned my pills over to him and guess what?
He admitted to stealing from me. We went to therapy. Lies, more lies and promises all broken. Last week I got a new script for my oxycontin. I locked them in the safe in my closet only taking out what I would need for the day. His behavior was erratic and I knew in my gut he was using. Friday night I sat on the floor in my closet, counted my pills and came up 30 short. 30!! He'd eaten 30 10mg oxy's in 5 days. AND LIED about it. He lied right to my face that he had no idea why they were missing. Two days of torture and I finally got him to admit it. He's been using on and off all along- dipping into my meds - and when I come up short for the month there is always some logical excuse on his part and HUGE denial on mine.
S0 - here I am. Betrayed, heartbroken, lied to, confused. Not to mention, our 3 kids suspected he was using and now they have lost all respect for him.
Am I being stupid in thinking we can work this out? Can this be fixed? He is setting up therapy which I will attend with him. What do you think I should do? I cry all the time now and I feel so very alone. I feel like my life has been built on a huge lie. I love this man but what kind of love does he have for me when he can steal from me and bold face lie about it?
Please help me.
deja
This is frankly comming from an addict so take it with, uh, a grain of salt.
I think we know individually, what is abuse. For example. I am on prescription Valium 5mgs each morning and 5 mgs at night. I am a 180 pound man. Used without ethanol (which I am ambivalently doing nowadays) this is a small and for me therapeutic amount. Sure it numbs me but also has allowed me to be relatively successful with my personal and professional life.
The key word here is relatively.
If you use a small amount of Xanax to sleep, you may be doing the same responsible thing.
When I take hydrodcodone (also prescribed) 8 times a day when all I need is a dose twice a day, I am usually doing it because I like the high, not because of the pain. We have to assume responsibility to go beyond guilt for meds we need, but also maintain the balance between what we know is excessive. This is requires an almost Zen like balance ("all in moderation") which most of us don't have. Thus, you either use in moderation, abuse or refrain. I think you know which is which. If you don't, after a few years of regular use you will.
Hang in there.
Frank
Oxy's go beyond love and into the phisilogical realm of craving. He probably started because of some underlying problems. The fact that he is willing, even arranging therapy, is a very good thing. If you find a good therapist this may be a chance for your husband to overcome the mistakes he made. Your feelings seem valid to me and I am sure compassion for him is hard to come by now. However, if you want your life to go on with him, really try therapy, give him a chance and hang in there. Don't stay away so long. Come back here where there is usually some very good and insightful support.
Keeping you in my thoughts,
Frank
habituation or metabolic addiction will set into action. i tend
to think of addictive drugs as being the one's ypu gget sick as
hell when you don't have them. this is called abstinence syn-
drome. drugs of this type are opiates, bariturates,tranks, and
lets not forget ethyl alcohol. addiction is a very loosely used
term since the rise and fall of the 30 day, 12 step treatment
programs. these treatment programs would treat a "lsd habit" if
they could get the money from the lsd addict. a person may de-
velope a habit of taking pep pills such as dexadrine, but there
isn't a matabolic addiction in play here. i've never seen a
person get physically ill from lack of dexedrine. the classic
model of addiction requires a demonstratable abstinence syndrome.
the word addict is really overused in our society. recently i
went to a NA meeting and this guy stands up and introduces him-
self as being addicted to pornoggraphy, gambling, and methidrine!
Geeze i was glad he didn't tell us his story! now this guy might
have some strange habits, but he isn't an addict unless he is
taking truly addicting drugs. to a certain degree addiction is
a disease of exsposure. if you never do addicting drug, you can't
be a drug addict. i hear a lot of talk about "addictive person-
alitys." Until they come up with a genetic model, this kind of
talk comes from some one who has been through treatment (and
sold a bill of goods), or they work in one and are trying to
drum up business. hell the rage of popularity of "treatment
center" has even altered and watered down the very organizations
(AA & NA) they modeled themselves after.
I do very much the same thing as JB. i take regular breaks away
from opiates. i do this so when i go back on, they work more
effectively. it give my colan a chance to do some much needed
catchin up. also this allows me to feel something, even if it
is just pain.
Now if there is some one out there that thinks they are addicted
to pornogrraphy, thats fine with me. that doesn't mean i'm go-
ing to endorse their bulshit either.
if you use truly addictive drugslong enough, your use will no
longer be recreatioal. you will be using drugs to cure the
abstinance syndrome of addiction.
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
The caveat is this...most anxiety disorder can be helped enormously with a combination of medication such as a benzo and cognitive behavioral therapy. The research on Panic Disorder for instance, shows that using medication alone rarely if ever remits the symptoms over the long haul. Therapy alone, with no meds, works to alleviate and in many cases eradicate the episodes. It just tends to take longer without meds. Meds alone only aleviate the symptoms, they don't stop the problem. The protocol where I work, in treating Panic Disorder and Anxiety Disorders, is to start with a benzo plus therapy, and most often they add an SSRI. Then, in about a month, when the therapy skills start to take hold, the benzo is tapered, the ssri is continued for 6 months, and the therapy is the main treatment. I've seen this work for many many people. Certainly not all. There are some cases of intractable anxiety that just requires benzos long term, no matter what. But, the research and my experience does show that therapy, the behavioral-skills training kind in specific, treats anxiety much better than meds. When you go off the meds, the anxiety returns, whereas with therapy, you change your anxiety response. PET scans of the brain have shown that this kind of therapy permanently alters the brain. Fascinating stuff. Works for OCD as well.
Geez you guys..can you tell I'm back at work? LOL
Ksteubin, even a non addict will build a tolerance to a med like a benzo or a narcotic when they take it as prescribed. It is just what the body does. bummer, huh? oi.
For me, the guideline for when I am using as prescribed vs using addictively is how preoccupied I am with it, and how it affects my life. I crossed the line a while ago, and I don't know that for me there is ever any going back to moderation. I'm lucky that my pain, for now, is manageable. I lied to myself for a long time about my use. I lived in hell, and sacraficed my relationships for that stupor. I can't tell you how good it feels to be free. Yes, I get cravings. Sometime very bad ones. I hate that part. Oi!
Kip, I disagree with you, but only on one point. I do think that there is addictive behavior, even if the body is not physically dependant. When I was using hydro every night for a few years, I never got physically dependant, but I was taking a ton of it every night, definately abusing it and definately was deep into my addict nature. Eventually I started to take it round the clock and got physically addicted as well, thus the hellish withdrawals. ::shudder
Also, I do think that people can become addicted to "processes" such as addictive eating, gambling etc. When it interferes with your life causing huge negative consequences and you still can't stop...it is an addiction, in my humble opion. Maybe semantically, we can call the non physical dependance stuff "compulsions" and the physically dependant stuff "addiction" to be more acurate.
Deja..there is always hope. The fact your hubby is willing to go to therapy is a good sign. Yes, it can get better. But it is often a slow hard road, and he has to really be willing to face his problem and get honest. Good luck..and please keep us posted.
love you all,
WW
lets diagree. i never argued "addictive behavior." First and last
addiction is a metabolic disorder. How else would you explain the
detox recipe that Thomas has refined? also the trace mineral combo
of pillpopa. of course their is a psychological component to the
metabolic disease of addiction. For all the respect i have for
behaivoral science, it alon can not explain the British model of
addiction. when you speak of addictive behavior are you speaking
behavior of addicted people or are you using "pop" language which
allows a looser use of a term. i can tell you i'm addicted to
walking my dog, but i won't **** my pants if i miss a day (the
dog would **** on the carpet maybe). when i was using and truly
addicted i had to have the rough equivlent of 3 grains of morphine
sulfate 3 times a day or i was shitting in my pants sick. a be-
haviorist could observe me till hell wouldn't have either one of
us. said behaviorist could not help me with my problems as a whole,
until the metabolic disorder of addiction was addressed. so say
you detox me, then you might be able to dig up the sub-sruface
parts of my personality that are "disordered." or i could say
thanks but no thanks, join the church of scientology, get cleared
and dedicate my life to l ron hubbard. what about a person who
just loves junk? you've had a chance or two to interact with
such people, are they affected in any other way than metabolicly?
i think the two of us could argue well into tonight, and never
agree. a friend at work runs a research project called calatrichid research (hey i can't spell). It's basically primate
behavior research. part of it is addiction studys. this man is
close enough to the top of his field (if you can judge a person
by the amount of grant money they can scratch up). The only con-
clusion his research has come to is addiction is metabolic in
nature and is a disease of exposure. i don't believe there is
a personality type that is typical to all addicts in general.
hey keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
As a pain