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MedHelp Member's Question

To Forum Doc.- What techniques/methods can you recommend to avoid relapse?

by Rex1, Dec 19, 2002 12:00AM
Dr. Horvath,



I hear horror stories of relapse and want to do everything I can to avoid this. Can you share any successful techniques or proven methods for us to utilize to avoid relapse?



Rex
Member Comments (49)

by Rex1, Dec 19, 2002 12:00AM
To: Bodymechanic, All
Bodymech,



So what did you do when you started to feel those temptations creep back in?



My dad told me recently that he has a whole bottle of Vicodin, that he was going to bring me, since he knows about my long struggle with back pain. I told him no, I didn't need them, but



Man it seems like a war inside of me - should I - shouldn't I? The thing that I keep running through my head is everyone's admission that detox the second time is a lot harder.



I value your advice a lot.



Rex

by peaz, Dec 19, 2002 12:00AM
To: Everyone/rex
Hi--I've never posted to you but I think I can answer your question.  I have a really good book on recovery called Staying Sober: a Guide for Relapse Prevention by Gorski and Miller.  Here are the steps they espouse for relapse prevention planning:

     1. STABILIZATION: Get control of yourself

     2. SELF-ASSESSMENT: Find out what is going on in your head, heart, and life.

     3. RELAPSE EDUCATION: Learn about relapse and what to do to prevent it

     4. WARNING SIGN IDENTIFICATION: Make a list of your personal warning signs

     5. WARNING SIGN MANAGEMENT: Learn how to interrupt warning signs before you lose control

    6. INVENTORY TRAINING: Learn how to become consciously aware of warning signs as they develop

    7. REVIEW THE RECOVERY PROGRAM: Make sure your recovery program is able to help you manage your warning signs

    8. INVOLVEMENT OF SIGNIFICANT OTHERS: Teach others how to work w/ you to avoid relapse

   9. FOLLOW-UP: Up-date your relapse prevention plan regularly.



    This  listing involves a lot of supplementary reading--I can't possibly go into detail about each entry in a post.   But these nine catagories can at least point you  in the right direction as far as where to begin. They are vague because everyone's plan must be personally devised.  What's  good for you might be totally inapplicable to the next person.  

    Staying sober will be a life-long challenge.  To attempt something uninformed is asking for disaster.  We spent an unGODly amout of time on our addictions; it seems only fair that we spend at least that amount of time on our recovery.  Read, Read, Read.  Get books and refer to them often.  Decide which ones make sense to you and which ones to pitch into the garbage.  Then read some more.

      An after-care group, a therapist and some kind of recovery (12-step or other) is optimal.  Every effort increases the odds of staying sober.  It  WILL take effort, but I know we're all worth it!!    :-)   Peace and Good Luck---Peaz

by southernbelle, Dec 19, 2002 12:00AM
To: rex
you are not alone, my friend.  that's the REAL problem.....not relapsing.  it's so hard not to when you know those pills will take the pain away or take the edge off, you know?  i don't know of any advice to give you on that, because i have not even begun to master it.  at this point in my life, i believe it will ALWAYS be an addict, i will ALWAYS have this probelm, so i've just got to do what i can to be as responsible as i can.  i am a FIRM believer that addiction is a disease, and we should try ourselves like it is.  treat it, do what it takes to take care of pain but don't abuse, be responsbile...sort of like the way other people take care of their diseases (diabetes & other conditions).  i know there are some who would disagree with me, but i truly believe it's a disease and that's the approach that should be taken.  just my two cents worth, i guess!  hell, i'm just taking it ONE DAY AT A TIME.  that's all i can do.  life for me right now is HELL, and i'm just trying to scrape by each day.  my sincere love and respect for you.  we don't get treated with too much dignity by society, so as for me, you have my utmost respect and highest regards.  sincere love and peace to you.

by teeitup, Dec 19, 2002 12:00AM
To: Finished
Finished what's going on? You have my email, let me know how things are!

Teeitup!

by NEW ORLEANS LADY, Dec 19, 2002 12:00AM
I AM A NEWCOMER TO THIS SIGHT BUT HAVE VAST EXPERIENCE IN THE WORLD OF HYDROCODONE ADDICTION--I ONLY WISH THERE WAS AN EASY ANSWER TO THE QUESTION OF RELAPSE-IN FACT I WAS 15 DAYS HYDROCODONE FREE FOUR WEEKS AGO WHEN I JUST RECENTLY RELAPSED--IT JUST GOES TO SHOW YOU WHAT A POWERFUL HOLD THESE DRUGS HAVE ON OUR MINDS--PRAYER IS THE ONLY THING HELPING ME THROUGH THIS WITHDRAWAL--AND THE SUPPORT I GET FROM READING THIS FORUM

LOVE AND GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU

by saveyourself, Dec 19, 2002 12:00AM
To: Everyone,rex1, oxic
Greetings all,



It seems we are all having one of those days. I am in day 12 cold turkey with the thomas recipe. I was on 400mgs oxy and 120mgs of percs daily for 14 months. I ran out of clonidine two days ago, along with valium.  I went to the docs, it seems he would be happy I am not pestering him for pain pills.  He has known me for 10 years, instead I ask him to write out two scripts for 5 mgs vals and clondine, only enough for two weeks, now this is a doc who has given me 90 oxy 20s and 90 percs for a sore back.  Instead, he calls in his addicnoligist, recently hired.  Now I am telling you, I was in major withdrawls and was in no mood to talk to a book educated additionwhatever,yet Iexplained the recipe and how well it has worked.



She took her notes and then told me I should really be on methadone, been there done that in 88, it took four months to be free of all WD symptoms. So she give me 15 valium, clonidine and told me four more times that methadone is your solution. She wants to see me back on monday.  



I go to the pharmacy and this little dweeb who has the power tells me, I will have to wait three days to fill .  I told him, guys like you I used to kick your ass in high school and I am in no mood to wait three days. Sorry sir was all he could say. So I left.  This morning I have been mean to my wife, jacked her up for nothing.  Thank God ,She understands what I am going through.

Please no advice about it will better in a day or two.  With my history, 22 years of opiate abuse legal and illegal, it will take three to four weeks to feel human again.  No matter what I don't pick up, I found a perc yesterday and flushed it with out a thought off taking it.  My kids and wife are going to get the best Christmas present I can give them and that is me being clean and staying clean.  I will go to an NA meeting this afternoon. I am getting to old for he trauma of WD.



I am really wondering if doctors, drug companies, pharmacies want patients to get well or to just stay addicted. Coming off this oxy is like coming off of heroin or long term use of methadone.  However, it is all about the money.  To the few good Doctors who are out there, thank you, we are all indebted you. To you other doctors who use cattle call methods at your offices, pass out meds that destroy peoples lives without even educating yourselves to the reality of harm you solely are causing.  There is a special place in Hell for you.  I hope it is an enternity of being in withdrawls. May God forgive you for selling out your God given talents.  Oh, yeah, don't know what I would have done without you people on this board.  As David Bowie once sung, WE CAN BE HERO'S FOR JUST ONE DAY.

Peace and Strength







by saveyourself, Dec 19, 2002 12:00AM
I have just read my post and there are comments and opinions that do not benifit the board.  I gotta tell you I have not felt the pain, anxiety and anger I have now for over 20 years.  NOT TO MINIMIZE IT'S OWN HELL, BUT MAN I WISH I WAS COMING OF PERCS, HYDRO, NORCOS ECT.  I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy, well maybe one or two. Thats the first sense of humor I had in 36 hours. One thing I am glad I am doing is doing this cold turkey, with the recipe. I just need to use it for 2 more weeks.  I am keeping a journal and I never want to forget this hell.  I respect those who can taper and if I had a choice I would do it.  But I have tried that method 50 times and I have always failed. I am to much of an addict and do not have the self control, even if someone was doling them out. God Bless those of you that are doing it. Your in my prayers, please keep me in yours. rex1, oxic,vicojen,southernbelle, body mech, methman and the rest of you, I am so grateful you people are on this board because I doubt I would have got past day four without being able to log on at 2 in the morning and know I was not alone.

Strength and Honor

Greg

by Bodymechanic, Dec 19, 2002 12:00AM
To: Rex
Email me, I have a copy of Jack Trimpeys book I can send you.  The only thing I ask in return is that you send it to another board member when you are done reading it. I am suggesting this book because Jack Trimpey is the only one with a truely different approach.  Twelve step books, spirital approaches and even Rational Recovery, although they seem to work, have been worn to death.



***@****



In reality my struggle and the struggle of many others is much more difficult than abstainance.  It is trying to take medication responsibly with a history of addiction.  



I have asked this before. What is your long term plan to deal with pain now that you are clean?  Keep in mind these types of pain problems tend to get worse, not better with age. Early recovery up to a year is very easy. It gets harder after that.

by teeitup, Dec 19, 2002 12:00AM
To: saveyourself
You'll make it bud, hope your evening is better!

by southernbelle, Dec 19, 2002 12:00AM
To: saveyourself
just wanted you to know i care for you, i understand.  i'm currently seeing a psychiatrist.  it's amazing how much our mental state has to do with our addiction.  i really believe our disease is so misunderstood...i hate that.  and it's just society that makes us feel like **** about this.  other people, the news, doctors who missed their calling and probably should have chosen another career path in life, jealous people, critical people.  all those things i just mentioned are what tells us we are addicts.  i believe with all my heart that it's a disease that most people know nothing about.  it's really sad.  how is it other people can be so normal, while we struggle every day?  anyway, i just want you to know i was thinking about you...we're in this together.  ALL things are temporary, too.  Even this struggle and battle we fight every day---it's only temporary.  LOVE and PEACE to you, I mean it!

by Jennibean, Dec 19, 2002 12:00AM
To: saveyourself
You know I know the hell you are in now and all I can say is the fear of doing it is tremendous. You ARE doing it. Each day is hell and sometimes you think the next day has got to be better and it is worse yet. Please keep your anger ( not to your wife though to your drugs) I really think that sometimes anger is what eventually gives us more control. It's a love hate relationship with these damn drugs. I love them and hate them at the same time. I love that when I take them everything seems ok, I don't stress and I don't cry. But at the same time I feel horrible about myself and lately I go to bed at night wondering if I am going to wake up the next morning. I am trying to come off of 220mg of oxycodone I say trying because like you I can't seem to taper. too addicted I guess. You know the old saying "I am powerless over my addiction" see I had trouble with that because I thought it meant we didn't have the power to get off the ****. But really it just means we are powerless when we have it and are under it's influence. It is so true which is why I cannot taper. I guess I should be happy that I have to withdrawal from all this oxycodone rather than even more oxycontin again. But it's all so bad. Maybe because I just detoxed from oxycontin 2 months ago I am feeling so much fear of detox when in reality it can't be as bad as last time. Ok enough about me though. Everyday I want you to think that "today is one day less that I will ever feel this way" Since with withdrawal there is no predicting when you will feel better just concentrate on getting one more day behind you. Do it now because if you start again this HELL you have been going through is all for nothing! I hate all the times I detoxed and swore I would never use again. What a waste! I want this bad, SO bad! I have not been an addict for 20 years. I was a decent sweet stay at home mom. Now I have this secret life for almost 3 years. I think my God almost everyday for 3 years I have put huge amounts of these drugs in my body yet when I am in withdrawal for a couple days I am screaming at how unfair it seems. Just think what if we had to withdrawal one day for everyday we used, makes this seem alot better. Don't you think the days you use fly by and the days you are in withdrawal seem like a week each?  Also what I wanted to say was replace some of your behaviors, you know you don't realize how much of your day is consumed with using behavior. Thinking what time can I take it again, where am I getting my next refill etc. When I detoxed before what helped me alot was every 4 hours when I would normally take my pills I lit a candle and said a prayer(not very religious but just asked for more strength). I also have these inspirational wish stones that my mom got me. They almost feel and sound like pills. Anyway several times a day I would pull out a stone and then read the book that came with it. Each stone has several little inspirational messgaes that go with it and they really applied to my situation. It helped alot to physically replace some of the time I spent worrying about my pills before. Also MAJOR help here I don't know what kind of music you like but my family made me a CD of all the songs I listen to when I am not using. That CD helped me so much I listened to it several times a day, each time I felt like I could handle anything. Some of my songs are Moving on by Rascal flatts, Just like a pill and don't let me get me by pink, It's been a while by stained(BEST ONE),I've been there (that's why I'm here) by Kenney Chesney. and more but if you don't know the words to these songs do yourself a favor and go to aimster or somewhere tonight and upload them and listen to every word. Music is so powerful and that'll give you something to do to keep your mind off of this **** for a little while. Ok enough rambling. Basically just wanted to say, stay strong and keep going you CAN do this. You are right this is the best present you could ever give your family!! Big HUGS for you too!!!

by Rex1, Dec 19, 2002 12:00AM
To: Bodymechanic
I am not sure I actually have pain - that's the thing I am still trying to determine. I am in pain right now but is it real or withdrawl pain?



History: In 1998, I had some minor low back