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MedHelp Member's Question

Vicodin, Percocet, Codiene...etc etc

by GHnyc, Dec 24, 2002 12:00AM
I want so bad to find out more about the poppy seed where the drug derivatives come  from for the narcotic drugs vicodin, codeine, percocet etc. What I want to know are two things. One, what are the benefits of this plant beside temporary relief of pain.. everyone knows that. I'm asking what benefits are there for example the positive benefits. I'm sure there are some when the poppy seed is taken moderately. Yeah yeah we all know the addictive quality of narcotics.. but what if someone were to take small amounts of this drug daily without going into the tolerance thing... I'm talking about someone who doesn't keep increasing the dosage of the drug. Are there any benefits from this plant? OK now for the negative side effects. Are there any negative side effects from prolonged use of poppy seed derivative's. I'm talking about someone who moderately consumes this drug. Think for a minute about this without going so danged crazy into addiction. I'm interested in finding out about moderate ingestion and the possibility of damage to brain cells, organ's (if so which organs)bones, etc etc. If there is anyone who honestly knows about this thoroughly I would appreciate some information on it.  Please do not respond if you are drug bashing recovering addict, or someone with little knowledge on the questions. Thank you very much.
Member Comments (32)

by alchemist, Dec 24, 2002 12:00AM
To: GHnyc
I'm sorry, but could you clarify your question, are you asking if there are any health benefits to ingesting poppy seeds?

by GHnyc, Dec 24, 2002 12:00AM
ok yes..  are there any health benefits to ingesting poppy seeds. And do be a wise guy.. and say 'no'. Cuz I don't believe that. So go ahead and reply.

by GHnyc, Dec 24, 2002 12:00AM
ahem.. that is- ''Don't Be A Wise Guy!''

by hellbent, Dec 24, 2002 12:00AM
I don't think there is any physical benefit to ingesting opiates.



The negative side physically has been discussed here recently in many threads.



I don't think opiates kill brain cells, but I could be wrong.

by mrmichael67, Dec 24, 2002 12:00AM
People who have been on pain meds, therapeutically, for years have done so without any organ or other physical damage.  That is why pain treatment has come so far in the last decade with new meds and whatnot.  After many studies, the medical field had come to the conclusion that opiates have unsurpassed efficacy and safety when used properly in the long term.  It has been proven.  I am talking THERAPEUTIC use, as prescribed.  I am not saying a person who pounds their ms contins will be healthy ten years down the road, or five for that matter, or less.  As far as taking a moderate amount of an opiate, what would you be taking it for?  If it is indicated, then a moderate amount over a long time will not do any damage at all.  Even if it isn't, but why would you take it?  One opioid, demerol, is an exception.  When taken over an extended period, the major metabolite normeperedine will accumulate and seizures are a big possibility.  That is why demerol is used much less in the treatment of chronic pain.  Many writings call for it to not be used at all.  And remember, tylenol is usually the culprit when the drug of choice is Vicodin or Percocet or any prep that contains it.

by Rdytoquit, Dec 25, 2002 12:00AM
To: GHnyc
When I first started taking opiates for pain I believed that they saved my life, and even after 5 years I still believe that without the pain meds I would not be able to work or have the life that I do now. That said I can tell you what I have expirenced in the way of adverse effects of prolonged opiate use for the reliefe of pain. I have gained over 50lbs. This is due to several things. I crave sweets! I never used to eat any candy etc.. but now I eat tons of "power bars". I know it is the same as candy bars but it makes me feel a little better if I can fool myself into thinking it may be good for me. Because of the weight gain my high blood pressur returned. I have constapation that requires me to take laxitives, try to use the fiber ones. After taking the meds for several years I had a big drop in my testastrone levels, I now take androgel to get the levels back up. Not to mention the reduced sex drive...so I wont mention it. My skin has changed. I get pinples and oily skin just like a teenager (I am over 50) I get tired very quickly! I have little or no energy most days. I have mood swings from the meds. I can be happy then mad then depressed all before breakfast! Time seems to warp when taking opiates longterm, more so than normal. I have lost several hours just sitting spaced out! I think the worst part is that it feels as though I am sitting watching my life being played out. I feel more a watcher than an actor, and I know this is from the opiates. Looking back I dont think that the opiate ever made me feel Good... I did fall in love with the drug the first time my pain went away and I could walk with out too much pain. I dont think that I have suffered any long term damage from the opiates and if I quit taking them I believe all the little side effects would go away. But in the same respect I dont think that there are any "positive benefits" that you seem to be looking for. Not having the pain would be a positive benift. Guess everything in life has a price and/or a reaction.

by Thomas02, Dec 25, 2002 12:00AM
To: MrMike
Since you don't know if pounding ms-contins harms he body over time, I feel duty bound to volunteer to find out.



Thomas

by alchemist, Dec 25, 2002 12:00AM
Aside from the opiates found in poppy seeds in minute quantites, poppy seeds contain a relatively large amount of Thebaine which is a convulsant and has no anlagesic properties at all.  Interesting enough, Thebaine is imported in large amounts into the US and is converted directly into oxycodone in a 1 step chemical process.  I don't know if ingesting poppy seeds will allow enough Thebaine into your system to cause convulsion, but I would suggest looking it up on the net.



Merry Chrstmas--



Alchemist

by mrmichael67, Dec 25, 2002 12:00AM
To: Thomas
I didn't say that.

by mrmichael67, Dec 25, 2002 12:00AM
You would have to eat a shitload of seeds to convulse from them.  Thebaine is also converted into hydrocodone, buprenorphine, Codeine, oxymorphone, nalbuphine, naloxone, and naltrexone.

by mrmichael67, Dec 25, 2002 12:00AM
They also convert most of the codeine from morphine as the percentage of the alkaloid codeine in the poppy is relatively low.

by alchemist, Dec 25, 2002 12:00AM
To: mrmichael
Very true, I would imagine he would have to eat a lot of them to convulse, but if he is eating them every day for a "theraputic effect"  it may have a cumulative effect from the constituents of the seeds.

by alchemist, Dec 25, 2002 12:00AM
For what is it worth, I read in JAMA a study where they were trying to debunk the "poppy seed defense" were people claim that traces of morphine in their urine came from eating poppy seed laden foods by looking for traces of Thebaine in their urine.  The thinking goes: if you took morphine/heroin there should be no thebaine in the urine, if its from natural soures i.e. poppy seeds, thebaine should be present.  The paper went on to say that they could not correlate eating poppy seeds to finding thebaine in the urine, it was hit or miss depending on the person.  So the poppy seed defense still stands for now, until they can find another chemical marker in the urine.

by mrmichael67, Dec 26, 2002 12:00AM
The pain relief is the only benefit I could see gaining from opiate use.  I can't understand the poppy seed question as pain didn't seem to be an issue.  When I say physical damage, I mean no kidney failure, liver failure, etc.  Does the previous poster take testosterone?  A few of the symptoms you just mentioned sound directly related to it.  Ingrown hairs