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MedHelp Member's Question

Tolerance

by pon, Dec 26, 2002 12:00AM
I have not been to this forum for a while...I am at 105 days clean from hydrocone.  I became addicted when I was exposed to it for pain mgmt after a severe shoulder injury.  I used the hydro for approximately 4 months and had built up to a level of about 100mg a day....my question is this, obviously at the peak of my addiction I must have developed a pretty large tolerance to the drug....I have spoken about the whole situation with my Dr and we have an agreement that she will not use any type of opiate pain med agian unless it is a truly desperate situation and in hospital....I am curious though, with the tolerance developed by my addiction, would they even ever work at normal doses?  Does the tolerance developed ever wear off or is it permenant?



thanks,



pon
Member Comments (36)

by Jennibean, Dec 26, 2002 12:00AM
To: pon
I am not the Dr but I can tell you that yes your tolerance goes away after a period of time. That is proven and the reason many addicts die of overdoses because they will be clean for a while and immediately take a dose they may have taken in the past not realizing they cannot handle that dose anymore. I know just from the many times I have detoxed for a period of time. I may have been up to 10 pills at a time but even after just 3 weeks off of them 5 will usually feel the way 10 did just 3 weeks earlier. I am of course back up to 10 quickly after because I am a sick addict but initially your tolerance deffinately goes back down. You developed a tolerance pretty quickly to be up to 100mg daily after just 4 months but the fact is you only took them for 4 months total and I am quite sure if you needed to take pain meds today that a normal dose would work for you to control pain. Obviously you were not just controlling pain before at 100mg daily because most chronic pain patients who are not addicts don't reach that level for a couple years if ever. It works for pain longer than it gets you high. I am sure right now less than 10 could help my pain, I just self medicate for every other reason. Depression etc. Although this problem is now the cause of all of my depression and no longer the solution. Anyway congrats on the sobriety my biggets prayer is that I can one day say what you just said!

Jen

by pon, Dec 26, 2002 12:00AM
To: Jen
Thanks for the answer...my curiosity stems from the fact that I have now been told that I will have to have another (final hopefully) surgery on my shoulder.  I really do not want to get involved with hydrocodone again at all if I can avoid it.  You are absolutely right, I was not at 100mgs for the pain, it was for the feeling...I liked it and I let myself become addicted.  I should have known better...I am a recovering alcoholic and tomorrow is my 15 year sobriety date from alcohol (12/27/1987 to 12/27/2002 and one day at a time from there)....I should have remembered "once an addict always an addict".  Anyway, I was curious about the tolerance issue because of the surgery.  It is arthroscopic (sp?) and should be very low on pain...so, my doc (who is very aware of what happened after the first two ops and the following 4 months) and I have decided that I will try it with only Tylenol or Advil and see if it can be toughed through.  Her worry is that when there is too much pain, I will be unable to do the necessary therapy program....my feeling is that I would rather deal with the physical pain than become addicted again.  Beating hydro was my second grace of my life and I don't want to risk it...anyway, had just wondered that if the tolerance does not wear off, then why even think of it.  I guess I should have realized that my Dr would have considered that, she is very good and knows every bit of what I did with the hydro (I talked to her when I quit to make sure that if I got weak she wouldn't RX me anything) so I am pretty comfortable with her judgment...other side though is, she ISN'T an addict, so she does not know the fear that putting another vike in my mouth holds for me.  Twice lucky, don't want to try for three....have a very good life after 15 years off booze and I want to keep it.  Thanks.



I haven’t really been posting here since end of Octoberish….hope it still the same place of strength for the folks here now that  it was for me then.  



Jen, you can say what I said….you just have to WANT it bad enough.  I know that sounds simple, and it is NOT, but it is the essence of sobriety.  You have to care enough about you to WANT to quit…you have to accept that you are worth it…that you deserve to be free from the slavery of the pills and have your life to make as you choose.  It is not easy, wasn’t for me either time, won’t be if there is a next time…but it IS worth it.  After I quit drinking and got my life together, I have had a beautiful existence….I am married to the most wonderful person in the world, who is also my best friend, we have two beautiful daughters and a third due in Feb, I have a great job and a wonderful farm.  All thanks to sobriety…there is life on the other side and it CAN be really good….it is just really hard and painful to get there.



If that truly is your biggest prayer, then you can have my prayers too to help…you deserve freedom…you are worth it.  I’ll keep checking the posts for the next few days….write if you’d like, I’ll help if I can, or just talk if you want.



Prayers



Pon

by hippy, Dec 26, 2002 12:00AM
To: pon
nice to see ya posting.

i to had a severe shoulder problem

wound up with a torn rotator cuff

it hurt like hell before the operation

then after the operation it hurt so bad

i wished i had never gotten the operation

they took the shoulder out of the socket

shaved the inside of the socket  a quater of an inch.

basic decompression, then they sowed up everything.

it took 6 months to heal up write. what a pain full ordeal.

as far as the meds  , vikes  , i took them as prescribed

then i had some horrable death to people in my faml

and i started abuseing the meds too the point of going from 5 a day to 15 to 20 a day.

anywaysmy tolerence was high, but after not taking them for a month it came shooting back down to whwere 5 worked just fine agian, acceept withen a month i was back to thr insanity of takinen almost 20 a day agian.

then i started taking oxy 80's  splitting them in half and they worked great for the pain but gave me head aches, so i would

take a valum 10 for the head aches and to take the edge of thre oxy.

and thus rounfd and round i went  , even after the shoulder

was better,the onw bad thing about he oxy was the vikes

no longer worked at all,

the good thing about the oxy was  no acetamtaphine.(tylnol}



oh well glad to to be past all that crazyness

clean since good friday, march 02.



peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by teeitup, Dec 26, 2002 12:00AM
To: Pon
Congratulations! I hope your surgery goes well, if they give you something for pain that is an hydro equal please post and tell how it works. I have a med. condition that will require pain med. of some sort for life.



Hydro has been the only one that seems to relieve the pain but allow me to function. I would like to find something different since I also like the high it gives and the temptation is always there to "abuse" instead of "use".

Thanks and stay strong!



teeitup!

by pon, Dec 27, 2002 12:00AM
HI Hipee, thanks for the info and glad to hear from you ....March '02 is pretty damn good...I am at 106 today and doing well.  Your shoulder thing sounds pretty much similar to mine.  I tore the rotator cuff and a bunch of other cartilage etc....practically pulled my arm off in a horse jumping accident.  Anyway, this last on is just to pick up some 'fiber' tags....doing it arthroscopically, so pain is supposed to be much less.  I am not going near any opiate unless I absolutely have to.  I made a deal with the Dr that if she feels the opiate med is absolutely necessary, then I will take it to her orders, BUT only while I am in the hospital, and no more than 3 days...NO RX AT HOME....I refuse to risk it.  Frankly, it is going to have to hurt pretty damn bad before I would let her do it.  I am happy to be free and don't want back on the merry-go-round...so, I'll let you know.



prayers



pon



Teeitup....I don't know of anything non opiate accept traditional asprin/tylenol/advil....I know there are supposed to be new non steroid things that are non narcotic...but my Dr has always told me that they really are more of an anti-inflammatory type drug than a pain med...she said we save those for when the arthritis starts in my shoulder...so, sorry I really don't know.  My plan is to stick only to asprin/tylenol/advil and grit my teeth.  Some pain is worse than others....and the addiction is the worst pain I know...in all truth, I found the end of my addiction to actually be more painful for me emotionally than the physical pain of my shoulder ever was and worse than the myriad pains of withdrawal....please do your self a favor and don't go for the high, those pills are insidious little things that are trying to steal your life...if you give them the chance, they will.  Sorry not more help, keep posting.



Prayers,



pon

by needhelp1, Dec 27, 2002 12:00AM
Insomnia… Well the last pill I have taken was Monday at 5pm.. and every night my insomnia keeps getting worse. I have been sleeping very light and I am woken by the slightest thing. Last night I woke a 12:30 am and was not able to go back to sleep for more then a ½ hour or so after that. Does anyone else have there insomnia get worse as the first few days progress like mine has? When should I expect a end to this? Also on a different note. I have Kaiser though my workplace. If I was to go there and be totally honest w/ the doctor could my work someone find out through medical records? thanks for any answers

A  

by needhelp1, Dec 27, 2002 12:00AM
FYI, This first relpase after being clean for 3 months. I have been on 90mg of norco or vic a day for almost 2 months.

by Witchywoman, Dec 27, 2002 12:00AM
To: needhelp1
Hi there needhelp,

Yes, I remember the insomnia. It is and was terrible for me.  It took a full month before I was getting enough good sleep, and really two months before I was sleeping like a baby on my own.



I took benadryl for it, and that actually worked a bit. Sometimes I took elavil, other nights trazadone. They are all non addictive and let me get at least a few hours sleep.  Valium is also an option but only for short term use, the last thing you need is another addiction.



I can answer your Kaiser question. I work for a Kaiser, in the Psych. dept, as a therapist. Your medical records are completely confidential. There is no way that your job can have access to your records unless you personally sign a paper allowing them to see them.  If you tell me which city you are in, I may be able to tell you the name of kind, understanding Doctors that will help. All Kaisers also have chemical dependancy recovery programs, that honestly are very very good and supportive.

Write me at ***@**** if you want more detailed info, as it's probably not smart of me to say where I live and work online like this.



The worst of the wds will be over in 5 days, then you will be smacked with intense lethargy and fatigue.  Use the L-Tyrosine that Thomas recommends, it does help some with that. But mostly we have to just tough it out and TRUST that you will feel better soon. It might take a few weeks to a month, but you will feel better. Just don't pick up that first pill.



by the way, there are a number of supplements and nutriceuticals that really do help heal the damage done to our receptor sites.

Deprenyl helps actually boost dopamine, so is great to use with the L-Tyrosine. Hydregine helps stabilize the oxygen supply to the brain