Thanks so much, everything that you said does help, and definitely makes much sense. The hardest part for me when I am waiting till the last possible moment to take my next dose, is that I push too hard, and have gotten myself into trouble where since I have dealt with the extreme of W/D before, when it starts to get too bad I freak out and take my half-pill, then when my w/d doesn't ease quickly enough for me, i freak out and take another half-pill. This is where your words will help me the most! I just need to hang in there and push through it. I will look back to try and find your distraction technique. One thing that might help that I learned in my Chronic Pain Management classes, is diaphramatic (i don't know how to spell that) which they told us to do as much as possible, because it releases natural endorphins in our brains, which is what we are lacking in w/d. Basically, my physical therapist said if it is too hard to do while sitting or standing, that it is almost natural when we lay down, so in the beginning you can lay down, lay a hand on your stomach, and your other hand on your chest, and breathe while expanding the stomach and not moving the chest. Once I breathed with my diaphram like that while laying down, I got the hang of it and now can do it in any position. I only lay my hand on my stomach and chest to check that I am doing it correctly from time to time. My pain psychologist told me about a patient she had who actually had a spinal procedure with a needle of some sort with absolutely NO pain medication, she diaphramatically breathed through the whole thing as pain control. That story inspired me that it really works. Also, when she wrote Endorphin and Morphine on her white board to show me how similar they are, but I'm sure you already know that! It really is a good way of making it happen in our brains though, the breathing. It could not control my pain alone, but it has actually helped me when I have had pain emergencies when I was waiting for my medicine to kick in and it surprised me at how much it took the edge off. Our brains are amazing things.

You are doing so well. This is such an amazingly difficult thing to do (what an understatement), and it inspires me to think about how strong you have been, and how strong you continue to be. Thank you again for sharing with me, it means so much. I will be thinking of you. Have you tried any supplements for sleep? I keep hearing about melatonin, but don't know if it would help in this situation.

Oh-  and I almost forgot- I used a technique to redirect my focus of attention away from the cravings and the w/d, and to distract myself as constantly as possible.  I've written about that here several times, you can find it probably every few pages back. If not I can email you a chat transcript with it fully detailed.  Several others here are doing the same thing, some that went c/t and some tapering, it works regardless.

And to answer your question, yes, I had involuntary arm/leg movements.  It was very temporary and not to the extremes that you'd had it!  But it was very disconcerting and scary.  I also had massive fever/sweats, heart racing very badly, and inability to sleep.  

As for how I devised my schedule - simple - I took the least amount I could and never took a pill till I got so twitchy and felt w/d start.  I pushed back the first pill from 11 to 12 then 1 and then combined it with the 4 and just took 1/2 instead of 2 halves at 3.  I used my redirection/distraction technique CONSTANTLY and pushed and pushed and pushed.  The hardest part, which is STILL causing me grief is that I can't sleep well since not having that half before bed. Even alcohol doesn't help.  But I'm willing to live with it.

My advice - drop to the lowest amount you can tolerate.

Hope this helps
/D

Greetings

I was taking 5-8 10/325 hydrocodone(vicodin) for 1.5years with a lot of alcohol to wash them down.  I had no physical pain, it was purely getting high.
17 days ago I let myself get down to 2 pills, and went c/t.
It was too much for me, as I cannot be out of work for this.
26hrs later I took 1/2 pill to ease the pain - NO high - just pain relief.
It worked, and I came here to learn about tapering.
I have been 17 days since being high, and 8 days completely clean.
I did a VERY fast taper, as best I can tell from how others are doing it.
But it was a lot of pain and discomfort, and while I'm thankful, I honestly didn't get much work done (nor much sleep!).

Here's what I did: from 5-8 10's I dropped to 3 halves, with beer (which as you know produces a great affect than the pill alone) taking at noon, 4, and 8. This seem to be the amount where my body would not go into full blown w/d and where I could sleep at least a few hours a night.

That said - in my opinion - the question of "how much to take" is going to be GREATLY different for everyone!  Our bodies have different thresholds for pain and  tolerance to the drug.  I simply cannot advise you on a quantity.  But what I can do is offer a few tidbits of insight - for what that maybe worth!

First, I believe it is critical to NEVER again get HIGH from it.
To my line of thinking that's not tapering it's just addiction continued.
Second, I believe you have to constantly monitor your body and ONLY take it when you need to hold off the w/d - BUT at the same time - endure as much as you can. My point is that your body will have less and less symptoms and at some point you won't need a pill when you did before. If you aren't careful you'll be taking pills out of habit and not need.
I consider that needlessly prolonging the taper.

These are just my views ok?

Basically, my best advice is to start off low - take a half pill instead of a whole one, and see if it helps. If not, take another.  But take less than you think you'll need - you can always take more but can't untake a pill!
And do everything you can to cope with w/d without taking more pills.
I used mostly natural things, B12, juices/fruits/vegetables - teas - lots of water - and some sound/noise technologies to help with sleep. I did everything i could to stick with it and not take another pill.

I hope this helps!
Peace
/D