I have not read any of your posts, but I would not worry too much about it, you say what you feel, there is nothing wrong with that, that is what this place is for : )

Thnx. I really don't know anything when it comes to these things and maybe I picked the wrong time to learn (when I am getting clean and emotional as heck). So I will listen to your advise.

Looks like my insurance is going to pay for IOP treatment so that will help me to talk about my feelings and withj real human contact. So if you don't see many posts from me after this week well then that will be a good thing.

I am real excited about IOP but for the first month will be in meetings 3x a wk for 3hrs and then an hour a wk in personal therapy (real excited about that because my husband can go and learn about the addiction devil).

Have a great night

Hi, I am sorry you feel like you were ganged up on.  I have not read all the posts from today, so maybe you were but I sincerely hope nobody on this forum would do that.  I did read your posts yesterday and I think that you just really took offence because someone disagreed with your opinion on suboxen, but I thought this gentleman was very respectful and i did not think he was harsh at all.  You got really upset though fast and said he made you feel like a loser, etc.  I just did not see it.  There are going to be people here who disagree with you sometimes, there is no getting around that.  I hope you don't get your feelings hurt though when it happens unless of course they are being rude and being an ass in general - that can happen.  Just please do not read things into posts that are not there - I don't want you to feel bad.  I am also a very sensitive person, my late husband was always telling me that, in fact I just realized how I miss hearing it, it has been four years since someone reminded me how sensitive I was.  But, really, most people here are good kind people, at least the ones I have met.

Good luck in your recovery, I will be thinking of you.

Love, Cindy

sorry, just me again.....  I have been looking and I cannot find the thread you are referring to where people were not getting along?  I wanted to defend you if I could find the person who made you feel like a total loser, but I cannot find it, unless you are still referring to the one yesterday?  If you are, I think that is long forgotten, I don't see posts where anyone mentions it, or am I just overlooking it?  I really hope nobody has made you feel unwelcome or made you feel bad about yourself, and so far thank goodness I have found nothing.

I couldn't have said it any better myself! than lookyhere did. Absolutely correct and right on the money. I have not yet had chance to read through the posts today but I have been bashed too. It happens here all the time. I have seen people in here who only post when there is mudslinging going on b/c they love the drama or they are so miserable with themselves that they aren't happy unless they can talk bad about someone else. Many of the people here are going through cold turkey withdrawals, that does not put you in a good state of mind, people get moody, insecure, even bitter. All kinds of things are going on behind that computer screen. I am a professional in the medical field and I have been called a liar, I have been harassed in e-mail, accused of putting my name to work that isn't mine (simply b/c people are not reading the posts in full), accused of cutting and pasting (as if that is a bad thing), and contradicted on things that are undisputable, scientific facts, people most often misunderstand thinking that I am totally against going cold turkey and try to change everyone's mind into doing it differently because they took one reply to a post out of context and decided to run with it. When in reality, if my other posts were read it can be seen that I am very supportive of those going c/t( I may ask if they have tried to taper or throw it out there as an option especially for people who are desperate and don't think they can do it c/t and even more so to people who are not healthy or their body is in bad condition b/c even though opiate withdrawal is very rarely fatal, when it is fatal it's usually in unhealthy patients so I am going to be concered for anyone here going c/t if they are at a higher risk b/c of health or some type of trauma to the body, I have patients that stop c/t but I cannot ethically advise anyone to do so, tapering is always better, always! I have done so much research and so many srudies that I am losing count, and I have seen the damage that quitting c/t can do up close, under a microscope with my own two eyes, there are doctors that will say different, but at the same token there are doctors that will take you off of benzodiazepines (xanax, valium, ativan) c/t and that can cause seizures, stroke and can be fatal. There is nothing to dispute that fact just as there is nothing to dispute what stopping c/t can do to the central nervous system, cardiopulmonary, and digestive tract. I have looked at the brain, spinal cord, large intestine, heart, and lungs post-mortem of those who quit opiates c/t vs. those who tapered vs. those not on any medication so my info. doesn't just come from school, textbooks, and journals, it comes from the research behind those textbooks and journals yet there are those who are determined to disagree, oh well we are all adults and responsible for ourselves.  


I have made it more than clear that if anyone has any questions I have always been happy to answer them or clarify but the people who like to mudsling and call names and start drama don't care about that b/c they do not want to go about things as mature adults and peacefully, they are looking to have drama or draw attention to themselves. One lady in here was accused of signing up under different screen names and changing her story each time and for people who have been here longer than me, they have seen it all. If it's not one thing it's another, if not one person then another. The best thing to do is just to ignore it, don't reply to the posts, don't even read the posts. I am definitely guilty of doing this when I know I shouldn't have. Things like that do not ever need to be dignified with a response from you. I would have left it alone but I am not such a peaceful person as many others are, and there are certain things that really hit a nerve that is dying to lash out and put them in their place b/c I know who I am and if they knew me personally they would never dream of saying those types of things to me, so I did lash out when I was accused of being a liar, of all the things I cannot stand lying is definitely in the top 5. But like I said I should have left it alone and after that I did, I never returned to the thread or posted anything back, I just kept talking to the people here who are friends and who are encouraging to talk to. You will find that more people here than not will be supportive of you, the "real" people here are angered at posts bashing someone else b/c they are here to give and get support not to fight, they are here for what this forum is actually intended. Just don't leave, there are so many wonderful people here and if you ever want to talk about suboxone I would love to (I am not taking it but know a great deal about it and it's success rates in recovering opiate addicts) and my husband is a doctor at a methadone clinic and also in private practice so if you want to talk about methadone or whatever you want to talk about or just vent, I'm here and so are a lot of people who will  support you the whole way through.

So as you can see I REALLY tend to ramble to no end in my posts so I will stop here and I really hope to hear from you soon.

xoxo- D.

I have a question for you:

I was more than a little intrigued by your statement that "tapering is always better, always!"  Could you refer me to any learned treatise or peer reviewed article that supports such an absolute position?

CATUF

I agree wholeheartedly that this is a forum to get encouragement but if you do throw out your credentials and experience as FACT you really should back it up. I have asked you about documentation re: ct vs tapering and I feel justified in this question. This is not meant to bash but as I said you persistently post your credentials as an expert and if you would post some articles from you and/or others re: validation of your statements it would really be appreciated. This should not be taken as bashing or labeling you as a liar. Not once has that word come from me and I don't recall anyone else calling you a liar either!  Just as if someone came on here and said "C/T is the ONLY way to go" I think many would be defensive and offended. When you make a statement the "Tapering is the best way ALWAYS" I think those of us who have gone c/t would like more information...not "Because I am an expert and I have seen it with my own eyes!"  Your credentials hold a lot of weight with many here so I don't think you should get defensive if someone is questioning you and your research. I agree that we are all adults and have free will to ignore or accept advice given, but when anyone  comes here saying this is my field and I know what I am talking about, I would hope we could see some documented research.....pro and con.  Dutchess, you open yourself up to questions by doing this...you are labeling yourself as an expert so you sure as hell should expect people to question you, esp when you talk other MD's down.  You have many times put down others in the medical profession, They, also have opinions that may or may not be valid! I totally trust my Dr and you have basically said that she is wrong when she told me that c/t works!  I am taking nothing out of context.  You have undeniably stated how strongly you are against c/t  and have used your credentials to back that up! I don't think there is much room for misunderstanding or taking this "out of context".

I haven't posted much because I am seeing too much enabling going on. I vividly remember how raw we feel when we are at our weakest in our addiction and I don't want to hurt feelings but it is hard to keep quiet when I see people saying "It's allright....your body is trying to adjust....go ahead take a pill and try a taper!" Not one person said that to me when I was ranting and raving c/t. That would have been the end of my recovery 'cause I would have jumped at the chance to make myself feel better!  I guarantee that I would still be in the cycle had I done that!  I want people to have a chance at getting clean....I don't see how extolling the virtues of taper and telling those resigned to c/t that it is BAD for you  How can you say that you could never "ethically"  tell your patients to do this especially still being in active addiction!

Sorry to offend but I have nothing to lose at this point.....I will take my advice from those who have some clean time under there belts and truly want people to quit.....NO MATTER HOW THEY DO IT!

I think the Dutchess was referring to me when she said "I have been called a liar."

Maybe, but I still have these legitimate ?? I still stand behind my post and since she continues to bring this controversy up (I was ready to let it go!) I have some issues I would now like to address with her. Didn't mean to butt in but I don't appreciate when people flaunt their expertise and become highly insulted when they are questioned or contradicted....none of us is above reproach!

Oh, I didn't think you were butting in - I was just 'fessing up.

I agree with you - I'd like to see something credible to support her position.  However, I will be VERY suprised if the Dutchess provides a citation to anything credible.  I asked for a treatise or peer reviewed article, which shouldn't be a problem since the Dutchess has "done so much research and so many srudies [sic] that [she is] losing count."