IMO an addict is an addict.  If you believe differently than you will never be able to surreder and again IMO, never be able to fully recover.  Yes, I did say recover.  
Whether it's crack, coke, heroin, pills.... if we let it go on for too long it will inevitably bring us to aplace where we lie, steal, cheat and generally deceive to get what we want.  It makes no difference where you're from, what you use, where you use, etc.  If it goes untreated, we will all fall prey to the monster inside and that monster is our addict selves.

In general there is no difference between addicts - if you are addicted to a substance, you are addicted. The only difference I can think of is that some people make a conscious decision to try a substance with the objective of achieving a high and others obtain an addicition when being prescribed painkillers by a medical doctor due to a genuine medical problem and is not aware in the beginning that you can get addicted that way. But in the end we are all people who have this problem in common, and no one is better than the other, if that is what you are aiming at.
I am still suffering - for f'***'s sake - and getting very tired of it. I tried again two tramadols yesterday, and it didn't make any difference, so I guess it must be a virus or something. Really ironic to get that after w/d from plainkillers and having to feel terrible for even longer. But I hope I will be better soon.
Great to hear that you are feeling better, and I will keep my fingers crossed that you will be fit to go Wednesday. If you don't have time to post I just want to wish you the best of luck with the next wedding - hope it wil be wonderful - but with your organisational skills how can it not ?
Enjoy every moment of it (especially witnessing your son's and daughter-in-law's happiness).
Take care
Minnie  

there is NO difference between the two!!!!! those here who have really suffered with this addiction to pills know all to well that when you're taking WAY more than rx you HAVE TO GET THEM ILLEGALLY!!!!! and YES it will make anyone act like a "street junkie" i have seen ppl (my brothers g/f) go to buy pills and then take off in a running car, just like in jenny's story, cause she had no money, and was in w/d's and would do ANYTHING to feel better!!!!

lizzie, you and a few others know about my struggle right now with my brother and his g/f's crack addiction. WOW!!!!! i never knew the lengths ppl would go to just to score crack!!!! i've heard the stories, but until you live it (lizzie you can relate) you really dont know!!!!! my neice is being flown up here on thurs. my crazy mom (who by the way totaly enable's my brothers addiction, she's even paid his dealer many times for him, cause he said his life was in danger) has stolen my neice and told her that her parents are "crack heads" i feel for my little neice, she's only 9yrs old. my brother has 3 warrants out for writing over $5000 in bad checks to buy crack, his house is EMPTY, i mean everything is gone (for crack) even the drapes on the windows!!!!! he just got foreclosed on, and when he and his g/f dont have the crack, they literally go CRAZY!!!! i have never in my life witnessed anything like it, they shake uncontrollably, and there moods, OMG, they go from crying and being sincere to flying off the handle and very violent in seconds!!!!!!

as far as tomanypills comment, NO i have never seen someone with a pill addiction act like someone on crack, BUT i have seen (and myself done) ppl do things that is completely "out of character" to get pills and i agree Lizzie that there is NO difference between this and a street junkie.

AN ADDICT IS AN ADDICT....PERIOD....

P.S. little April is doing good this morning.....Thank you everyone for you prayers...... you can see the story online on-  todaystmj4.com   its the first story on top "neighbors save little girl"

luv ya,
tink  :)

When I was drinking and using coke daily about 5 years ago I would do just about anything.  Luckily I still have many yets.. I have yet to be arrested, I have yet to really steal or put my life or someone else's life in jeopardy but I did chose drugs ad drinking over my family and spending time with them o0r doing something for them or holding up a comittment I had for them.  If you ask me when I'm sober  to chose my mother or drinking or to chose between my mother and absolutely anythintg, of course I would chose my mom, BUT when an addict is active... well, the rational thought process is removed and nothing else matters.  Now, these people normally are loving, giving, generous, responsible but when their disease takes hold nothing stops them.  That to me is the biggest tregedy.  I woulid never do anything to hurt my family intentionally, yet I have.  I have made my amends mostly by staying clean but I still feel a twinge of guilt.
People think that addicts are rotten to the core and that they don't care about others and that is so not true.  We are victims of a horrible disease and until we treat it, we are dommed to ruin lives, ours and others around us.

I didn't read it like that at all.  I read it like he was giving Jen some comforting info. To me it sounded like he was saying that street drugs and street life were different than the people here, like maybe he hasn't seen too many folks on here going to that extreme to get their hook up.  I didn't think it sounded bad at all.   Most people are not used to the "street" life, and they think of it as very scary and a very dangerous place.  Addicts are all addicts but he never said that anyone was better than anyone.  I think you guys are reading too much into this because it strikes a personal level with some of you, thats all.  To someone who doesn't have experience with the "street"  I can tell you that my addiction with pills seems totally harmless in comparison with Jenny's story.  I probably would have wrote  and asked the same thing out of ingnorance.  

I agree. An addict is an addict.  I spent almost 2 decades in NA and totally believe in the therapeutic/spiritual value of the steps.  I chose to be online at this point in my life because I want to pinpoint my addiction, not my personality or life issues.  Not that is isn't ok to talk about those things,, i just don't want to sit in hours of meetings listening to it.    ALso, in my particular area, it seems that people started not working the steps but just hanging out at meetings, socializing and talking but not doing much changing other than staying clean.  Money.  Money kept getting stolen.  Our activities fund, t-shirt funds, individual meeting money.    I got tired of it.   I still go to some functions because there are some wonderful people there.  I just prefer to be online now.
Trust me, no matter how we get to this point, the feelings are the same and we are all working for the same goal.

I was simply answering Lizzie's question.  I made no reference to the original post.  

I was also answering lizzie's question...

Yes...I know that you are right, an addict is an addict. I guess it just would depend on that particular addict to see how far he/she will go to get the DOC.
Its just...WOW....I mean, a sledgehammer to his HEAD and he signs out AMA to get back out there to try to score again? I guess I didn't realize he was THAT far gone. And what scares me is our daughter will run to his aide everytime.....that not only irritates me but worries me. What if she is driving him somewhere one day, like to a store or to the doctor, and someone he's robbed successfully in the past recognizes HIM and just OPENS fire on HER car? I don't want her in danger, and HE IS DANGER. She just can't see that. ITs frusterating.

Jenny

Hello tztlady,
I too are very involved in N/A, I am the GSR of my homegroup....
It really bothers me that you mention N/A and missing money in the same breath.......
If money is missing there is an area meeting once a month in your area, did you ever consider going to that meeting and reporting this behavior?
There are people there who are new or not so knowledgeable about the business aspects of N/A......
Stealing is a crime and criminal behavior is very much a part of addiction if money is missing you have addicts controling money who should not be...it is a privlidge to do service work in N/A...
As a GSR if I had any knowledge of money missing I would address it promptly...
I have 18 months clean, but all the others in positions of responsiblity from my homegroup have over 10 years of sobriety.....for good reason.....
As GSR I take donations to the area and pay the rent to the church of our home meetings.....
It is a great thing to establish social events at homegroups,  it is great that addicts can be with other addicts who no longer use.....
It also is a place for addicts to go who are lonely and had to give up all their friends who still use to avoid relaspe.....
I can understand your frustration and hope that you will have the strength to step up at your homemeeting under N/A announcements or privately if you choose too...
Take care..........

i unfortunately do have experience with the "street life" and i will say with the exception of the extreme cases (crazy crack addicts) were talking about in this post, that many of us have during our addiction to pills have acted "no different" then those buying drugs on the street. there are many "levels" of street drug activity. for instance, if anyone here has ever run out of pills early and then bought them from someone (even if it was a friend) you are without a doubt particitpating in "street drug" activities. I know that most of us here didnt originally seek out our pills off the street, but were rx them for a medical reason from a doctor. once we begin to abuse them, take them to "feel good" instead of for pain, run out early and start "multi-sourcing" our means to get them, we are no longer innocently taking them as rx. True, we may not of started out looking for a "high", but we did find ourselves "getting high" and liking it!!!!!!   and that makes us a DRUG ADDICT!!!!! and thats no different than someone buying drugs off the street.  I think Jenny's post talked about a more "extreme" addiction. One i hope most of us here never have to go through or have someone we love go through that addiction. Crack addiction (and crystal meth) take a persons "soul" from them. it is EXTREMELY SAD TO WATCH!!!!!!!!  but i think everyone here needs to beware and learn from ppl posts of extreme cases like this. IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE!!!!!!  i know from personal experience, both my brother and his g/f, in the beginning never did "street drugs" both of them started out with PRESCIPTION MEDS!!!!!  unfortunate for them, they both chose to take their addiction to another level. But it can and does happen. there are sooooo many ppl out there who start out abusing pills, and when they dont get the same "high" anymore they look to other narcotics to make them feel good.

I think it is very DANGEROUS for anyone to think of their addiction is different from someone who's addicted to street narcotics. if you are an addict, then you are and always will be at risk of addiction....

ADDICTION DOESNT DISCRIMINATE!!!!!!

luv ya,
tink  :)

Its just...WOW....I mean, a sledgehammer to his HEAD and he signs out AMA to get back out there to try to score again? I guess I didn't realize he was THAT far gone. And what scares me is our daughter will run to his aide everytime.....that not only irritates me but worries me. What if she is driving him somewhere one day, like to a store or to the doctor, and someone he's robbed successfully in the past recognizes HIM and just OPENS fire on HER car? I don't want her in danger, and HE IS DANGER. She just can't see that.


This post is insane.......if you want to understand the true insanity of addiction please read your own words above...........

You are your daughters mother and it is your duty to protect her from harm no matter where or who it comes from.......

I wish you strength with your situation and I have confidence that you will do the right thing.........

Beach....if you read my other post to you, you'd see that she is 18...I cannot legally stop her from seeing him. Of course, if she was under 18 I wouldn't let her near him. She's an adult. My post wasn't insane...it was how I felt. I'm sorry you think its insane.
See ya all later.

Whew! I'm glad you read my other post. I just read your response. That's my whole problem...her being 18 makes her an adult, and legally I can't stop her from seeing him. But you're right..she does think she can fix him. SIGH.
All I can do...and this may sound awful to some...is PRAY he goes back to jail for something....our lives are so peaceful when he is in jail, I tell ya.

Thanks for the advice, though...I should have my daughter talk to you...maybe you could talk some sense into her.... :)

Love
Jen

Didn't mean to be pushy......the truth of addiction is insane and scary.....

It wouldn't do any good your daughter at 18 will make her own choices....you can only hope that she will make the right ones...........

You are right....she's gonna do what she wants no matter what I say. Ironically, she gets that stubborness from me...lol.
I hope one day she finally just walks away from him until he decides to clean up. I told her that may be the only way he does. ::::shrug:::::



Jenny

Wrong.
There are addicts on this forum who got addicted to drugs not by choice. They had back problems, cancer, fibromyalgia other ailments. These people don't rob, cheat, steal.
Some addicts who chose to try their drug do not reach a level of crime associated with street addiction. They work and spend all their money on drugs. It is their choice.
I for one did a-lot of my drug buying on the streets. I never victimized anyone. When I could not get my drugs I would stay home and suffer. Or do something stupid like take some other drug I had in house and OD on it.
There is a degree of Street addiction violence. Just because you lie, cheat and steal does not make you like a street addict.
And not all street addicts go to extremes as some others.
There is a point of no return that some addicts cross to get their drugs. And you don't have to be a street addict to do that. Strong assault, armed robbery, murder and so on.
Some street addicts reach their bottom and find the rooms of NA. If they have hurt someone in their active addiction they have a chance to make a amends to those they hurt by working the steps. Although, if they hurt someone bad physically or by another bad way they might have to pay their price to society(jails+prison).
Like I said, there are different types of street addicts.
I only got to see what addiction to crack can do to a person when I moved to Florida. Have you ever looked into someones eye's and they were deeply bloodshot? It wasn't because they just got high. There is a level of street violence that you never heard about.
A-lot of street addicts die on the street and you will never hear about it. There is a-lot of crime associated with being and living on the streets.
People on this forum have jobs, raise children and try to help other addicts.
There are some street addicts who will pick-pocket and maybe snatch a purse. But they wont physically hurt someone.
Didn't you recently watch that video on news of someone (probably a addict) who came into a apartment building and snatched a 95 year old lady's purse. She was walking with one of them strollers. The guy was like 6 foot and weight 250 lbs. He kept punching this little old lady in the face and would not stop. Sick.

Ohh. and there are "street addicts" who are street hustlers. They will help other addicts looking to score find them drugs and get something for that, some will beat you for your money and  some who will panhandle. There is no violent crime associated with that.
I have been a victim of serious street crimes. I have been robbed at gunpoint numerous times. Been beaten to a virtual  comatose for talking back to drug dealers. But never have I stole robbed or hurt anyone.
peace

Yeah....that's how I felt....back when I was hooked on the hydros, if I absolutely couldn't get any (which was a rare thing, cuz they were always so accessible to me but once in a while, I was O U T with none to be found) I would just sit at home, miserabley in w/d's. Or like you, I'd try and find SOMETHING in the house that may give me a little buzz. I'd never go to the extremes my ex does, but, then again, I'm not him. I guess it just depends on that particular addict and WHAT he/she is willing to do. I was willing to sit home and be miserable. lol...while my ex was willing to DIE for it. now THAT's scary.

Jen

I feel 100% the way you do.  But, I do think that it could be possible for someone who has never hurt a fly, to get so wrapped up in drugs that they become a person who might do unmentionable things to get their drugs,so their husband or children wouldn't find out they were w/d'ing.  

I DO believe that when you are on drugs, or are drinking, if you beat someone in the head with a SLEDGEHAMMER, that is not the drugs alone doing that, THAT is a serious character flaw and you would probably be a crappy person even without the drugs!  

But, I do believe that there is a major difference between the two, but like I said, this is just my lack of knowledge speaking, and only MY opinion.

I think there are good people and bad people in this world, and good people are different types of drug addicts than bad people.  The drug use is not what makes you a crappy person.

I really don't know what makes people do some of the violent things they do to get the drugs? I have seen non-violent crack addicts recover and make amends, if they had to. But some people will go to extremes. You don't have to be addicted to anything to commit serious crimes against other people. Violence is not limited to drugs. There is violence everywhere. People assaulting and killing people for all different reasons. Drug addiction does not discriminate. I believe that it is in the person. Maybe violence is both genetic and external (outside factors). It just so happens that this violent person is a drug addict.
I did not victimize anyone or hurt anyone, or did anything bad to anyone but myself. And what I have put my family through. I do not want to be labeled or identified as a violent street addict like the one portrayed in this thread. What about the pain to the victims family?
Sledgehammer is serious stuff. What if he would have hit that guy in the head?

we were wriour posts together.

...writing our posts together.

Hon...read my original post below again....my EX DID get bashed in the head with the sledgehammer. My daughter said the left side of his head was split open, his nose was crooked, and his ear was ripped half off. Yeah. THEN, he signed out AMA (and how the doctors could allow that is beyond me....I mean, shouldn't they have put a psych hold on him???????) because he wanted to score some crack.


Jenny