Aa
Day 14
Two weeks down.. off Sub for 14 days off of all other opiates for 24 days.. Feeling good.. my allergies are bothering me from a run in with some lilies but I am ok..
I know I have kinda become a bit of a "SUb nazi" but it is good intended.. I did LOTS of research before going on it and I really do feel that alot of people are under educated when it come to this.. even docs.. Heck even my doc was under educated. I really just want people to understand as much as they can so that they too can get clean and have the best chance at staying that way. Here are some helpful facts so when people come asking about Sub others can answer as well.. instead of me the "Sub nazi" and Fishmeal "the Sub salesman".
I entitle this "What your doc does not want you to know about Suboxone"
Doctors are only required an 8 hour course to be a prescriber. This course is run by the manufacturer's of Suboxone. Not doctors.. not the FDA.
NO studies were done on long term usage. However the manufactuer's recommend maintenece when possible. (of course they do more $$)
When being used in Europe, daily doing was almost unheard of.. Due to the long half life, every other day or every 3 days were the dosing schedule. That is when high doses such as 16-32 mgs were being used. Of course by the time it got to the US, and we are the "more and faster" country.. these doses were being used for daily dosing..
Speaking of Half life. At 37 hours after your last dose, 50% of that dose is still left. 37 hours after that so 74 hours after you last dose 50% of that is left. So if on monday you took 8 mgs at over 100 hours after you last dose which is over 4 days you would still have a 16th of your dose left in your body.
Suboxone is not available in Canada
The naloxone that is in Suboxone is NOT the ingredient that block other opiates. It is the Su itself that does the blocking. It does this by tghtly binding to the opiate receptors. The naloxone is only to deter addicts from using their Sub interveiniously.. used as directed only a very small amount of the naloxone is even put into the body.. I think I read that it was .02%
Docs figure the more you start at the less likely you will be able to use on Sub. At doses lower than 8mgs the blocking affect does NOT really block as much as they would like you to believe.. Over 8mgs and any opiate can be blocked. At lower doses, people of maintence sometimes take "holidays" from their Suboxone treatment. I am not telling you this so you will try it, I am telling you this so you know why your doc thinks you should start at these really high doses.. the makers of Sub told them too.. HIgher doses equals longer tapers... equals more money in their pockets.
3-4 days after beginning Sub treatment if you were taking short acting opiates like hydro, percs, heroin, etc.. your body has gotten rid of most of your DOC.. everyday after that your body is becoming dependent of the Suboxone..
There is more... I just thought I would give you some helpful tips... I hope all this research I did will help someone and not get them hooked on Suboxone..
XOXO
I know I have kinda become a bit of a "SUb nazi" but it is good intended.. I did LOTS of research before going on it and I really do feel that alot of people are under educated when it come to this.. even docs.. Heck even my doc was under educated. I really just want people to understand as much as they can so that they too can get clean and have the best chance at staying that way. Here are some helpful facts so when people come asking about Sub others can answer as well.. instead of me the "Sub nazi" and Fishmeal "the Sub salesman".
I entitle this "What your doc does not want you to know about Suboxone"
Doctors are only required an 8 hour course to be a prescriber. This course is run by the manufacturer's of Suboxone. Not doctors.. not the FDA.
NO studies were done on long term usage. However the manufactuer's recommend maintenece when possible. (of course they do more $$)
When being used in Europe, daily doing was almost unheard of.. Due to the long half life, every other day or every 3 days were the dosing schedule. That is when high doses such as 16-32 mgs were being used. Of course by the time it got to the US, and we are the "more and faster" country.. these doses were being used for daily dosing..
Speaking of Half life. At 37 hours after your last dose, 50% of that dose is still left. 37 hours after that so 74 hours after you last dose 50% of that is left. So if on monday you took 8 mgs at over 100 hours after you last dose which is over 4 days you would still have a 16th of your dose left in your body.
Suboxone is not available in Canada
The naloxone that is in Suboxone is NOT the ingredient that block other opiates. It is the Su itself that does the blocking. It does this by tghtly binding to the opiate receptors. The naloxone is only to deter addicts from using their Sub interveiniously.. used as directed only a very small amount of the naloxone is even put into the body.. I think I read that it was .02%
Docs figure the more you start at the less likely you will be able to use on Sub. At doses lower than 8mgs the blocking affect does NOT really block as much as they would like you to believe.. Over 8mgs and any opiate can be blocked. At lower doses, people of maintence sometimes take "holidays" from their Suboxone treatment. I am not telling you this so you will try it, I am telling you this so you know why your doc thinks you should start at these really high doses.. the makers of Sub told them too.. HIgher doses equals longer tapers... equals more money in their pockets.
3-4 days after beginning Sub treatment if you were taking short acting opiates like hydro, percs, heroin, etc.. your body has gotten rid of most of your DOC.. everyday after that your body is becoming dependent of the Suboxone..
There is more... I just thought I would give you some helpful tips... I hope all this research I did will help someone and not get them hooked on Suboxone..
XOXO
I was by no means attacking you at all. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding the training you were talking about and/or that I was reading the information I received incorrectly. And most importantly to make sure that the information all of us are posting is as accurate as possible. Thanks for all your great posts and info!
sandra
sandra
Hey guys this was written by me months ago.. yes I may have left stuff out.. I have done more research since this.. So I am not gonna get into it..
My question was regarding the training that the docs must go through before being able to prescribe suboxone. Fladdict had mentioned that they must only have 8 hours of training and that it was done by Suboxone. But from what I've read that isn't true. The 8 hours must be by several US departments, not the manufacturer and they must have other training as well.
The approved physician must evaluate a patient using the (COWS) Clinical Opiate Withdrawal Scale.
There are various scores ranging from 5-36. This lets the DR know what stage of withdrawal the patient is in and helps determine the suitable dose needed for treatment. Go to www.suboxone.com this may help you-------------NOAH
There are various scores ranging from 5-36. This lets the DR know what stage of withdrawal the patient is in and helps determine the suitable dose needed for treatment. Go to www.suboxone.com this may help you-------------NOAH
I'm confused about the 8 hour training you listed as being by Suboxone. According to the Tip 40 the 8hours has to be from several different professional groups, not Suboxone:
Physicians who consider office-based treatment of opioid addiction
must be able to recognize the condition of drug or opioid addiction and be knowledgeable about the appropriate use
of opioid agonist, antagonist, and partial
agonist medications. Physicians must also
demonstrate required qualifications as
defined under and in accordance with the
“Drug Addiction Treatment Act of 2000”
(DATA) (Public Law 106-310, Title XXXV,
Sections 3501 and 3502) and obtain a waiver
from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health
Services Administration (SAMHSA), as
authorized by the Secretary of HHS. In order
to qualify for a waiver, physicians must hold a
current license in the State of (name of state)
and, at a minimum, meet one or more of the
following conditions to be considered as
qualified to treat opioid addicted patients in
an office-based setting in this state:
• Subspecialty board certification in addiction
psychiatry from the American Board of
Medical Specialties
• Subspecialty board certification in addiction
medicine from the American Osteopathic
Association
• Addiction certification from the American
Society of Addiction Medicine
• Completion of not less than 8 hours of
training related to the treatment and
management of opioid-dependent patients
provided by the American Society of Addiction
Medicine, the American Academy of
Addiction Psychiatry, the American Medical
Association, the American Osteopathic
Association, the American Psychiatric
Association, or other organization approved
by the board.
• Participation as an investigator in one or
more clinical trials leading to the approval
of a narcotic drug in Schedule III, IV, or V
or a combination of such drugs for treatment
of opioid addicted patients (must be
evidenced by a statement submitted to the
Secretary of Health and Human Services by
the sponsor of such approved drug).
• Additional qualification criteria may be
added through legislative enactment.
In addition to the waiver, physicians must
have a valid DEA registration number and a
DEA identification number that specifically
authorizes such office-based treatment.
Physicians who consider office-based treatment of opioid addiction
must be able to recognize the condition of drug or opioid addiction and be knowledgeable about the appropriate use
of opioid agonist, antagonist, and partial
agonist medications. Physicians must also
demonstrate required qualifications as
defined under and in accordance with the
“Drug Addiction Treatment Act of 2000”
(DATA) (Public Law 106-310, Title XXXV,
Sections 3501 and 3502) and obtain a waiver
from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health
Services Administration (SAMHSA), as
authorized by the Secretary of HHS. In order
to qualify for a waiver, physicians must hold a
current license in the State of (name of state)
and, at a minimum, meet one or more of the
following conditions to be considered as
qualified to treat opioid addicted patients in
an office-based setting in this state:
• Subspecialty board certification in addiction
psychiatry from the American Board of
Medical Specialties
• Subspecialty board certification in addiction
medicine from the American Osteopathic
Association
• Addiction certification from the American
Society of Addiction Medicine
• Completion of not less than 8 hours of
training related to the treatment and
management of opioid-dependent patients
provided by the American Society of Addiction
Medicine, the American Academy of
Addiction Psychiatry, the American Medical
Association, the American Osteopathic
Association, the American Psychiatric
Association, or other organization approved
by the board.
• Participation as an investigator in one or
more clinical trials leading to the approval
of a narcotic drug in Schedule III, IV, or V
or a combination of such drugs for treatment
of opioid addicted patients (must be
evidenced by a statement submitted to the
Secretary of Health and Human Services by
the sponsor of such approved drug).
• Additional qualification criteria may be
added through legislative enactment.
In addition to the waiver, physicians must
have a valid DEA registration number and a
DEA identification number that specifically
authorizes such office-based treatment.
You failed to mention the 72 hour window for all MD, DO. In emergency situations your PCP can prescribe suboxone once per year a small amount until the patient is able to find themselves a sub dr or a detox program. I received this info today in the mail from The National Alliance of Advocates For Buprenorphine Treatment, it came on CD it also stated what I've been trying to educate people
about Suboxone, and I quote: Buprenorphine is different that it is a partial opioid antagonist, NOT a full opioid antagonist and as a partial antagonist, This property of buprenorphine may allow for:
* Less euphoria and physical dependence
* Lower potential for misuse
* A ceiling on opioid effects
* Relatively mild withdrawal
* Helps patients stay in treatment
When compared with full opioid agonists (i.e.oxycodone and heroin).
The one time per patient yearly emergency prescription allowance is good for 72hours according to the data I received.
It also said Florida which was part of the study pharmacy sales for methadone was up by 360% since 2004. More and more pain specialist are turning to methadone since the Oxycontin problem has been exposed, because of this deaths associated with methadone have reached an all time high!
And there is more than that going , Till tomorrow---------------------------NOAH
about Suboxone, and I quote: Buprenorphine is different that it is a partial opioid antagonist, NOT a full opioid antagonist and as a partial antagonist, This property of buprenorphine may allow for:
* Less euphoria and physical dependence
* Lower potential for misuse
* A ceiling on opioid effects
* Relatively mild withdrawal
* Helps patients stay in treatment
When compared with full opioid agonists (i.e.oxycodone and heroin).
The one time per patient yearly emergency prescription allowance is good for 72hours according to the data I received.
It also said Florida which was part of the study pharmacy sales for methadone was up by 360% since 2004. More and more pain specialist are turning to methadone since the Oxycontin problem has been exposed, because of this deaths associated with methadone have reached an all time high!
And there is more than that going , Till tomorrow---------------------------NOAH
Hello and Welcome to the Forum!
You are posting on an old thread. It will get pushed to the bottom, and I don't want you to think no one is answering you.
Go to the top of this page and hit the "Post a Question" button. When you get there, follow the instructions to post your own question, typing exactly what you did here. You will get a lot more responses that way.
Hope to see you out there.
You are posting on an old thread. It will get pushed to the bottom, and I don't want you to think no one is answering you.
Go to the top of this page and hit the "Post a Question" button. When you get there, follow the instructions to post your own question, typing exactly what you did here. You will get a lot more responses that way.
Hope to see you out there.
I started on Sub with a Dr. in Houston on a 32 mg. dose after a nasty 10 yr. habit with hydrocodone. I've been on these for a month but have cut my dosage, (against his protests that I keep on the 32 mg. dose), down to 16 mg. I am afraid I have gone way too long to taper down quickly. What on earth do I do now? I feel good. I feel much more normal and am doing things now that I couldn't have done before due to being so sick after using the hydrocodone for so many years but I am scared that he is addicting me to this sub. He wants me to taper about a year. He also gets $300 per hour when he consults me every other week. Then every other week he consults me for $150 for a half hour. That is $900 per mo. No wonder he wants me to do a slow taper!
I have to admit though that I honestly do feel good and I suppose ANYONE WOULD at that level of Sub. My question is that I am scared that I have been on this too long to fast taper. Then when I do taper quickly, I am afraid that I am going to go into horrible withdrawals which is why I didn't get off the hydrocodone in the first place and why I went onto Suboxone. Lord help me! What do I do now?
I have to admit though that I honestly do feel good and I suppose ANYONE WOULD at that level of Sub. My question is that I am scared that I have been on this too long to fast taper. Then when I do taper quickly, I am afraid that I am going to go into horrible withdrawals which is why I didn't get off the hydrocodone in the first place and why I went onto Suboxone. Lord help me! What do I do now?
Hey
I just want to say Congratulations on day 14. You are a real inspiration to me. I love it when you respond to things I have said, you have so much heart and information to help us get through. I have no doubts that you are going to make it. And guess what? I have made it to day 9 and your a big reason why.....
Thanks so much! Keep up your strength, your doing AMAZING!
Becca
I just want to say Congratulations on day 14. You are a real inspiration to me. I love it when you respond to things I have said, you have so much heart and information to help us get through. I have no doubts that you are going to make it. And guess what? I have made it to day 9 and your a big reason why.....
Thanks so much! Keep up your strength, your doing AMAZING!
Becca
Hey Fladdict, Thank you for you previous help and thanks for this note on suboxone. I copied it and pasted it into my "help-file" for future reference in case I need it some day.
Glad to hear you are still off the narcs and doing well. I have been off Perc for 7 days now and am finally starting to feel pretty well.
Thanks again,
oxynot
Glad to hear you are still off the narcs and doing well. I have been off Perc for 7 days now and am finally starting to feel pretty well.
Thanks again,
oxynot
Sorry didn't have my messenger on.. Hubby had the laptop that I have it downloaded on... I had the mac.. but we just switched back so I will turn it on now...
Boy it's good to have you handy, it's like having my own talking encyclopedia..lol Like I said I bet your brain is larger than the average humans...lol. Luv ya girl.
Oh by the way, I left you a very interesting message by the way on IM.
Oh by the way, I left you a very interesting message by the way on IM.
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