The post was over but thanks for your comments

Thanks so very much I trully appreciate everything you said and for putting yourself out there.

You are so correct about the self fullfilling prophecy .. thanks so much for your post

Curls and Crazi - You are right.  No need to explain anything.  Crazi needs to stop making excuses and get help.  Today.  

So, 'Crazi' - at this point you have got to choose some form of help and stick with it.  Even if it's not feeling like the best place or whatever.  You need someone outside of your immediate life to talk to.

There are organizations to call.  If you post your city, you can be sure that someone here will make recommendations that they have actually bothered to investigate.

You say no to everything.  I assure you that will not help.

By the way -- terrible twos, threes, fours...could we avoid that?  Too much of this 'terrible' age stuff is just self-fullfilling prophecy.  People are people going through ages and stages.  At any point where we can't handle it - WE'RE the ones who need help.  And that's not a bad thing.

Yours, "Terrible 50s"

Thanks Raynbow.  I needed to hear that - just so I don't feel like I stuck myself out on a limb to much.  

Fabmom, you said what I was trying to get out - so well!  Gatsby too.

Moosiebjm, I hope I didn't offend you.  If I did, I apologize, and I hope all can be put to rest.  I wasn't talking about spelling at all (athough I see where you got that).  I can't spell to save my life so I'd never want to bring that topic up myself!

I can't believe how hard it is to get some of your families involved with your kids.  My mom thinks I only come to visit her so I can visit my nieces.  It's one of the few great things about being too sick to work - I get to spend a couple weeks at a time at my parents and see the kids (afternoons only, I can't do mornings), and play like I'm a kid too.  I wrote a bunch of zanny ideas about getting family involved in the higher up post to crazyladi, especially in my second posting.  Maybe some of them will strike a good idea?

Meanwhile it's onward cyst'ing we will go.  
  Cheri

I wish I would've been on here for this one! I agree with Curls and Fabmom4. But I'm not gonna' post anymore on that topic....I just want to tell Crazi that my mom won't keep my children, she has kept them like 4 times in 4yrs (aside from the 3wks she kept my daughter because I was in the hospital for high-risk pregnancy and my husband had to work)....She says that my granny didn't babysit me, and I can find someone to do it just like she did....Her mom (my granny) used to tell her no, that's your mess.
I did my time. etc etc...I do NOT think it's normal, it hurts my feelings that a granny won't offer to do it, heck even once a month so that me and hubby could go on a date would be cool. My mom lives 15min. from me and has been to my house 4 times in 2yrs. I usually go see her or somethin'. We need sitters during my surgery and a girl from church has offered (bless her heart, she has 2 kids of her own...so, she would be keeping 4kids under age 4 all day!!) So, anyway my father-in-law will come to our rescue...once again, and drive up here 3 1/2 hours from VA to babysit on surgery day! So, I know what ya' mean about family not stepping up...but, it's all in the personlaity I guess.
Take care,
((((Raynbow

Boy, busy evening here.

No one was being attacked, no one was being judged, no one was being criticized for correct or incorrect grammar or vocabulary.  This happens all the time in message forums.  Someone "perceives" an attack and then yahoo, off we go.  Dian, I apologize to you first, and then others who tried to keep this on the track.  I wrote my first post because I believed there could be good discussion.  No judgment, just discussion, maybe even argument, in the true sense of that word, not anger.  And just to set the tone here, this is set out with care and concern, no anger.

Diplomacy.  Saying what needs to be said in such a way that you get your point across but step on the least toes possible, especially the one who is hurting most.  And that's my last word on this.  Diplomacy.  Love, hugs and God bless, Barb

Your posts are a breath of fresh air...honesty is always welcome, so...thanks.
Please continue keeping us honest and in our place.
Peace to you and yours.
dian

Thanks Curls.  I appreciate your post and agree.  Both parties involved have been hurt, and I think it is unfair to attack either.  Sometimes our emotions (hormones!!) get the best of us.  I truly feel there was genuine concern on Nicororo's part.

Thank you.  Something is just weird about my family.  Selfish? Maybe i have no idea. My two sisters with no kids one 31 the other 28 single not married, have watched her at the most 3 times in three years.  We all live close like 15min or less apart.  My mom as well never watched her the first year until i made her feel guilty.  I dont get it, is normal families like this?  My mom is a good mother she just doesnt want to watch my kid that often, only when she is good and ready.  So those times are rarely when i need her to take her.  Church.  Well i just started one last october and i dont know anyone and i dont know who to ask.  I did try emailing them and the pastor had a sermon on how " people email with all there problems and he doesnt want to hear it" he wants to hear about positive things.. Now lol let me see.  If someone is in a bad place and cant get to that positive place how is she gonna get help?  Well I am still lost.  I need to find some places but i dont know where. There has to be someone who knows of all the places in my city.  Hopefully the clinic that my Doctor is sending me to will have those answers.  :)

Hi All,
I'm sure this will draw fire at me, but I need to say it.  I find it uncouth (to use a word I just read in this post) of those of you re-attacking and critisizing nicororo...in this post that's supposedly about apologizing and bringing her in and making her feel comfortable and welcome.  

What I have loved about this forum and what kept me sticking around, was that no one, no matter how needy, how disagreed with, how different an opinion they held, how repetive, or how lacking in thinking things through on even the basics themselves before posting, has received a harsh word.  Everyone has been treated kindly, lovingly, and with support and help.  The direction this tread has taken saddens me greatly.

That's the main point of why I've posted.  

But, to draw more fire, personally I think nicororo had an important point to make.  It would have rubbed crazyladi the wrong way no matter - it's not a pleasant thought.  However, people do lose it (we've seen pictures of them in the news) and it's important not to put heads in the sand.  You've seen my posts to crazyladi and that I tried to be as supportive as I could.  (Sorry to keep talking about you in the third person crazyladi).  However, hitting another person 20 times hard enough to cause pain is called assault.  Crazyladi is strong enough and competent enough a person to know it wasn't okay, to post and go for help.  Nicororo's concern that she take her actions seriously and think about how far out of control she might get - that's valid.  That's very extremely hard to hear when you are the one who's the stressed out person, and I understand completely if it didn't sit right with you.  However, you said in your last post that you would never lose control.  The problem is that you did.  It's why we wanted to support you and why we wanted you to get the help you need to make it all work.  That's why everyone kept saying it's important to set strict boundries for yourself, since once you loose it you never know how far it might really go.  My dad used, correction still does, disassociate when he's made.  He doesn't know exactly what he's said and swears on his version of it.  He's always stopped himself, but what if it was some combination that pushed him?  (He's a holocaust survivor who lived with plenty of stress, so I give him credit for not loosing it more.)  

On the other hand, attacking nicororo for her comments or how she said them or anything else repeatedly is just foreign to how inviting this forum has been.

Crazyladi, if you not too mad at me, I had a couple thoughts that I wondered about.  Your family tells you to hit your child so she won't be spoiled.  What do YOU think is the way to handle things?  As an single mom, one of the few perks is that you get to implement your views without having to compromise with anyone else.  The other thought was, why does your mom think she has right to tell you how to raise your kid, when she doesn't want to step in and help you when you need it.  It made me feel a little mad at your mom that's she not more supportive but is telling you her views on how to do things.  (I'm cautious about stepping on my sister's toes, while I'm very close with and spend lots of time with her kids including being an extended part of the discipline system.)

Crazyladi I hope you are doing better now (and that what I've posted sits okay too.)  

Cheri

Wow, our families sound similar in some ways.  I also have two unmarried sisters, 29 and 27.  My parents live about 20 minutes away.  We are a pretty close family, and they are always there in an emergency, but my mom is very selfish.  Never worked, but never offers to take kids if I am having a bad day.  Her excuse...she never had the help when she was raising us.  And that makes sense why???  Me, I will take anyone's kids at anytime (for the most part).  Isn't that what life is about...helping each other out?  So strange.  I feel guilty complaining about them, but it is what it is.  And my sisters...hhmm.  Little by little they have faded into their own relationships, but I can still depend on them more than my parents.  You know what I tell myself, though, is that God does not give you what you can't handle.  I truly believe that.  Now, it took a long time to find a way to "handle" all of these things, and I am still working hard on handling some, but ultimately I know I will come out a survivor...of parenthood, depression, surgeries, emotional meltdowns, and on and on because God is on my side.  Anyone else willing to stand by me becomes the bonus prize ;)

I didn't post on the previous thread as you girls had done such a fantastic job - and here you go again. I take my hat off to you. The thing is, that our children are now taught in schools that spanking is wrong!! So our children tell us in no uncertain terms that we can't do that!! I too have been guilty of spanking my kids when I have reached the end of my tether.  I don't feel proud of it afterwards either, and if I am of sound mind, WILL WALK AWAY!! But sometimes I am not of sound mind.  Sometimes, things are way more serious in my mind than they actually are. Sometimes, I feel way out of control. I haven't spanked my children very much - Not at all - but when I have, I have sat with them later and explained that I was in the wrong, and that I am so very sorry. That doesn't take back what I have done, but my children know I am certainly far from perfect.  They also know that I can say I'm sorry and truly mean it.  Every day is different, and while consistency in discipline is the key, tomorrow you will react very differently to something that maybe 2 days after that when everything in your world is off kilter, you don't handle quite so well. Parenting is very challenging, and sometimes we stuff up!! My kids are very well balanced, kind, caring, well-mannered children .... MOST OF THE TIME!! But sometimes, like me, they grow horns and I'm not sure who they are. WE DO ALL DO OUR VERY BEST ..... SOMETIMES WE DON'T DO SO WELL AT ACHIEVING OUR BEST ... BUT TOMORROW WE'LL DO BETTER! Nicororo I'm sure, was just trying to let ladi know that she needs help - whether that be by family members or professionals. I don't think she meant the words to sound harsh. Wishing all you mums (or moms) out there joy and happiness with your broods. Enjoy your little ones, b/c before you know it, they're grown and gone.  Hopefully we will all send well adjusted, secure, happy adults out into the big wide world who know that they were truly loved by their sometimes incompetent parents!!

Hi again Crazy.  You are really very courageous, don't forget it.

I just heard a song on the radio, Christian radio, by Todd Agnew called "My Jesus."  Made me cry, and I don't think it was just hormones!!!  The point is, He spent most of His time with people just like you and me.  Weak, scared and totally bent over by life at times.  But if he were to show up at church today, road weary, dirty clothes and feet, we wouldn't even let him in.  Awesome song.

One thing I thought of earlier was a line from a movie about Jesus - he's getting grief from the disciples for letting Mary Magdelene touch him and he says "if your slate is clean, then you can throw stones."  Just remember, and lean on your faith Crazy.  It'll get better, I promise.  If you have a church family, lean on it as well.  Mine, which fortunately included my real family, really pulled my you know what out of the crack I can't tell you how many times.  Plus, they usually gave me really good yummies to cheer me up too. :)

Sorry to get all preachy here, but I'm Christian as well, and it really works well if you remember that while in the thick.  Love, hugs and God bless, Barb

I for one dont feel that I attacked her.  I just said that she is a different person than me.  When i said spanked 20 times. That there was a true exaggeration.  I was trying to post the day before but couldnt get through during this whole issue at my house.  My mother is controlling and until I move away from her she will always do that and she knows that she does it.  I dont believe in spanking and that is what I told my parents.  and fabmom same with my mom she says " no one helped me" I am like so didnt you ever want help and she is like " nope"  and i am like wow.. I need to move away from this family is what I need to do they have  strong hold on me.  They make all my decisions as if I am a kid.  its unreal.  

I agree with everyone has aright to there own opinion so I am not mad at anyone, but I do need you to all realize people make mistakes and this whole mess that I have made here is why I have not spoken out in three years because everytime i do this is what happens. I see why women have no hope and are lost and cant get the help.  I relate.  But i would never ever ever kill my child.  

Can we have a party or something this is getting on my nerves lol

Okay, I will say one more thing, and then I am with you on dropping it.  Don't feel bad about bringing this all up, and don't feel that you are not allowed to have these feelings.  The first step to helping yourself is acknowledging (saying out loud)that you have these things to deal with.  There are so many women who suffer with things for years because they are afraid to tell anyone that they need help on some level.  You are working through your issues.  Not just the anger thing, but the family situation and the health problems.  You did the right thing to talk about it, so don't feel like you should have stayed quiet.  Look, this is an uncomfortable and emotional topic, so you obviously know that there are going to be strong opinions on both sides, but good for you, and Nicororo too, for being honest and saying things that many people are thinking in their heads, but don't want to say out loud.  You are on the right track, so don't feel defeated!

You did not "cause" anything...we are having a discussion that I think is very healthy.
We are learning we can agree to disagree and still be a viable group of caring, compassionate, wise women.
My post adressed to "nicororo" aroused some emotions in some of us here on this site. Nothing wrong with that.
We need to be grown-ups, and, accept eachother's opinions on choices, politics and religion.
It is paramount that we learn to respect eachother's beliefs.
No need to put anyone down.
Let's learn to offer support, without judgement, to eachother.
Peace, and probably, good-night ladies.
dian

Crazyladi - thanks for the clarification, especially the part about exaggerating the 20.  I think you opened the flood gates to a something many woman have experienced - stress raising little kids.  I've thought for a while now that the post isn't really just about helping you, but also about each one of our experiences, and that's why it's started such a spark.  Hope you can see it as not about you so much.  I didn't think you attacked and was talking to the other women here.  

I find I don't express myself that well in writing.  (Been told I'm much better in person at getting my thoughts across.)  I was trying to say that if I was reading this as nocororo, I wouldn't want to come back.  I'd see comments about my being needy and in pain as presumous, and about my wording being poor as unneccessary and judging.  An apology that judges me, would not feel like the spirit of a welcoming apology.  I wanted to post because if Nocororo sees this thread, I'd like her to know that someone did think what she had to say was okay as it was.  

Importantly I valued the non-judging style of this forum and I hope it can return.

Well that's enough writing for me.  Hope what I said makes makes sense.
  Cheri

Wow i dont know what to say but thank you.  I have had a real tough go at this mothering thing and i really needed somewhere to vent.   I have found that since i have reached out about my post pardum and psycosis that I have not only been attacked but have been made to feel like a worthless undeserving mother.  Not on here of course but in the city i live in.  I specifically went to many doctors to tell them what is going on but have always been told nothing is wrong with me.  I know because of who I am I would never ever ever kill her.  My fear is the emotional scars that I am giving to her.  i thank you all for your support.  I know that I am a good mother no matter what I have done.  I did indeed pass her over to my mom for 2 days and told her I cant take her back until my hormones become level.  I know I have a problem, and I too am a christian and wonder why this is going on and why this is happening to me. I do however believe that this is going to end after my surgery nieve as it does sound.  I just believe that. I may be off my rocker and please feel free to tell me I am lololol..  

Also to top off all this drama it doesnt help that I quit smoking 6 months ago.  

Before i used to shut myself in my solarium and smoke so i wouldnt hurt her. Now I am going to have to do that again without the cigarettes..

You are all wonderful people and I thank you for your support.  Too bad we were past the limit for the day and i couldnt post that night, might have saved all this. lol..

Darn Computers lol..

I really truly want to say again your support is unbelievable, I have never felt so much from so many people in all my life.  This has been a lonely journey and I am glad i can share my fears before surgery and ask questions about all of this and yes vent about killin my kid lol.  

I pray that God Blesses all of you

If you are all up for a cyber party, just let me know!
~Tascha

Me too Katie.

Very well put Tascha.

Dian, we do not disagree.  And I still do not believe there was an intentional maliciousness involved here.  Just over emoting and poor word choices - for an anonymous forum where body language, facial expressions and tone of voice can not be seen or heard.  One of the outcomes of a resolution will be peace, and hopefully, a learning will take place and this type of incident can be avoided in the future.  We all need this place and others like it.

Anyway. . . how about we get ready for the weekend get together and put this all aside.  Love, hugs and God bless, Barb

I'll take one in medium.  You know we are not here to judge or be judged.  Each of us has come here for solice and also a place to vent and find answers.  Who are we to say our way is better?  Who am I to say I am a better parent?  We all do the best we can and the best we know how. As far as I am concerned, you are all my sisters and I care about each of you.  I am here to listen and offer my advice, but I will never judge you.
Love, Tascha

Oh gosh you guys are so nice to try and resolve this. I appreciate so much what you are saying and that you are brave and kind enough to try, and are taking the time to do it.

OK... How's this for a different spin....Here goes:  I, Katie, a fabulous mother and long time hard working teacher ADMIT IT HERE AND NOW...  I TOO HAVE LOST IT and SPANKED MY KIDS!!!!HARD! MORE THAN ONCE.....and yeah I felt like **** but ... stuff happens.... and ...gosh....the kids turned out OK.  Jeeez Louise.  Craz has enough stuff going on without being attacked for her honesty.... we ALL do.  

I suppose I just made it all worse and now I am in the soup, but come on, Craz is just doing her best and my heart goes out to her.  She is alone.

I love that "unorganized band of barbaric and ruthlessly loyal batallion of hormonally challenged women"....can we get Tshirts done up?

Barb;
I feel exactly as you do; the hair stood up on my neck when I read each of her posts.
I agree, she was insensitive and lacking couth.....still, in full support of Ladi, who I think was very graceful in the face of an attack....this nicororo person is a wounded (and quite angry) woman who could benefit by reading what you, and so many others here,have to say.
Yes, last night was a very "emotionally charged" discussion and subject....I knew this invite might be, also.  Ladi handled herself well..... I would imagine she is now aware that she has friends here who will offer advice, support, and protection. She need not feel alone again....that is the blessing and silver lining of the cloud that passed over last night.
Last night showed how much we pull together when one of us is challenged. Personally, I felt honored to be a member of such an "unorganized band of barbaric and ruthlessly loyal batallion of hormonally challenged women".
If I insulted anyone in that previous sentence, I apologize; and, I disagree on your conclusion, Barb .....I think there might have been some malicious intent in her statements; but, I'll not stoop to her level.
It is my opinion, we need as much Peace in this world as we can get....women should unite across the planet in the attempt to accomplish that honorable goal....we need to change hostility to friendship.
In doing so, we just might all find Peace.
dian