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MedHelp Member's Question

Depression after oxycontin withdrawl. What will help? SaMe?

by Going price of OC 40, Apr 23, 2000 12:00AM
I heard about a drug called SaMe could help with depression, anyone have any expeience with this?
Member Comments (35)

by Michael, Apr 26, 2000 12:00AM
The depression does NOT go away. I'v tried my darn hardest to stay off opiates but its the depression that makes me go back. I'm currently on Paxil and this doesnt seem to help much. The paxil helps only to control extreme strong emotional feelings of crying and the feeling as if the world is about to come to an end, however I am disapointed this drug hasnt helped my depression. I have been taking it for 2 months. Can you please recommend anything else I can try? My motivation to work/play and go out has all gone. The only thing that gets me out of the house are opiates. But anyway, feel FREE not to answer my question. Many doctors in the medical profession tend to shy away and choose to ignore it. Because they either havnt enough knowledge or simply would rather answer the simple questions they *can* answer and leave this one alone, basically to make themselves look superior.

If you manage to answer my question and give me some useful advice then I would have the upmost respect for you.

by Brian to Michael, Apr 26, 2000 12:00AM
There are many antidepressants which can be tried if the Paxil is not working well.  How long is the longest you have you been totally clean from opiates recently?  You really have to stay clean for at least 6 months to know for sure it isn't post acute withdrawal causing the depression or at least adding quite a bit to the depression.

by Michael to Brain, Apr 27, 2000 12:00AM
Thanks for replying. I'v tried to stay clean for 3 months now, although I have lapsed many times, however I'm not physically addicted like before. I'v been hoping the anti-depressant will help me get into gear but I guess it was wishfull thinking, anti-depressants arent magic after all. While off the opiates, my motivation is so low that I have trouble even getting myself to wash in the mornings. Recently though, I have lapsed onto opiates for 3days and in this time, I have achieved so much. In this short time I'v got myself a job and have squared things with my family who thinks I'v given up. I'm due to start a job and I just cannot afford to be feeling miserable on my first day. So as you can see I'm in a bit of a difficult situation. I want to give up, but on the other hand I dont want to risk feeling so depressed that it may ruin other areas of my life again.



I'm sorry to ramble but maybe someone out there can identify with me on this one.

by Mike to Brighty, Brian et al, Apr 27, 2000 12:00AM
Man, what a trip...we share the same name and much of the same problem. I'm still using, talked to my doctor yesterday about starting Paxil...maybe I will reconsider. I too am looking for that ONE thing that will make my daily indifference go away. I have a great life and want to enjoy it properly and thoroughly, but it seems I don't. When I'm full of opiates though, the yard is clean, we take out of town day trips, little chores are no problem and little things make me happy. I don't get it. Maybe there IS a permanent change in my physical makeup...regardless of what any counselor might say - if the science is fighting me, there's nothing I can do. So, Michael - I am right there with you. It seems ludicrous to go through withdrawal, wait 6 months to MAYBE feel better and happy with life when I can, at will, anyday by self medicating. Deep down I know I'm putting off the inevitable, but modern science and the doctors who profess it don't know what to do with me. If I'm happy on this pill, why try this other one? Maybe this is THE one that fixes MY chemical imbalances. Why is that so impossible. Oh the rationalizations of a drug user. But if you substituted the word Paxil into my sentences instead of the word opiate, I'd be a recoverer, not an addict. A pill is a pill is a pill. Let me know if you figure this one out, because I'm in the same boat.



After re-reading this, it truly sounds like a drug induced rationalization...! Unfortunately, there's not a word in it that I wanted to change.

by Brian to Michael and Mike, Apr 28, 2000 12:00AM
What you both are experiencing is not uncommon.  Many people feel more energy to do things on opiates.  The problem is you can't stay on the opiates forever.  As you both must know, tolerance will keep rising until you will not be able to get enough opiates (unless you start using heroin) to keep from constantly running out and going through withdrawal.  There are many other problems associated with the opiate use, but suffice it to say that the one I've identified is reason enough not to continue.  The bottom line is you HAVE to find other ways to get your energy back.  The first thing is you have got to stay clean for long enough for the body to adjust.  I've been exactly where both of you are and I thought I would never get my energy and motivation back.  I was wrong.  It just takes time.  In addition, antidepressants can help, just make sure you are getting the right one.  Paxil is not a good choice because once you stop it has terrible withdrawal. Furthermore, it has some sedating effects--not exactly good for motivation.  Prozac tends to be more energizing but can make people jittery and has some sexual side effects.  Remeron is a good choice, ask your doctor about it.  Final thought, no addict has EVER been able to use on a very long term basis with no ill effects.  The addiction WILL progress if you don't stop and at some point you will end up dead, in jail, or in some other mess.  Don't kid yourselves into thinking you can only live happily with opiates.  Get some clean time, join NA or something similar and you'll realize there is happiness and energy after the pills.

by TO SHARON FROM SHELLEY, Apr 29, 2000 12:00AM
I CAN TOTALLY RELATE TO EVERYTHING YOU WROTE MIKE. I SUFFER FROM CHRONIC PAIN AND AFTER BEING "OUT OF CONTROL" WITH NORCO, MY DR. PUT ME ON 2-10 MG OF OXYCONTIN PER DAY.  TIME RELEASE, SO I TAKE ONE IN MORNING AND ONE AT NIGHT.  I DONT CRAVE ANY MORE IN BETWEEN AND HAVE THE ENERGY AND MOTIVATION TO LIVE WHAT I CONSIDER A NORMAL, PRODUCTIVE LIFE. MAYBE YOU COULD TALK TO YOUR DR. AND SEE IF THIS IS SOMETHING YOU COULD TRY.  JUST DONT TAKE MORE THEN PRESCRIBED-YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BECAUSE THE EFFECTS ARE LONG TERM. GOOD LUCK.

by Brighty to Michael and Mike, Apr 30, 2000 12:00AM
My daughter has the same problem and also it's what has led her to relapse. She is on 40 mg. of Paxil because 20 mg. were not helping. They also have her on Effexor another antidepressant which is not an SSRI. I think it tends to raise the dopamine levels a bit as well as the serotonin and epinephrine levels. Because she is away in a program we cannot administer the complementary products such as Sam-E. I have just done alot of research on 5-HTP which is an exceptionally well tolerated and highly touted remedy for depression. It's extracted from an african plant called Griffonia and it's main action is that it produces tryptophan. Tryptophan is completely converted to serotonin in the brain. You can eats lots of turkey but that's hard to do every day. The 5-HTP is found in health food stores but it has to be taken a certain way in conjunction with protein foods and carbohydrates so I suggest you get the book or find some web sites. Unlike St. John's Wort it does not take a month to work and it directly affects serotonin so you should feel results in a day or so. I am going to begin this remedy soon but I want to do some more reading. I will report back on the results. I do have moderate depression from dealing with addiction in the family but not as bad as a person going off opiates. Also, I personally do not care for the idea of methadone but for some people it does give them relief from the depression. I am not sure what happens though when they taper off.

by Brighty to Brian... a question, May 01, 2000 12:00AM
Hi Brian... hope you see this. I was reading your reply above to Mike and Michael. Why is Paxil the choice remedy for post opiate depression if it's hard to withdraw from and also causes sedation? This is the problem with Gina now... the Paxil is making her so sleepy and sluggish and even at 40mg she is very very down. This is the longest she has been off the heroin and  as you say, this is the result. What is the choice remedy ? I don't really know the difference between all the SSRI's. I never heard of Remeron till you mentioned it. What is it ? I just heard of Celexa but again don't know how it's different from Paxil. It would be great if she could get 6 months clean and then hopefully the depression would go away on it's own, but she has acutally had suicidal thoughts so we are concerned if the doctor is prescribing correctly. I am also wondering how they treat suicidal people who are not dealing with addiction... do they use Paxil ?? Any information you have will be very appreciated. Peace and prayers, Brighty

by Mike to Brighty, Brian et al, May 02, 2000 12:00AM
Thanks for the responses, support etc. I'm currently OUT of everything.......waiting for the worst of it to start tonight. Told my doctor on Sunday (urgent care hours) that the medication that I'm currently taking for pain (Vicoprofen) isn't working anywhere near where it should/used to. Saturday night I found myself seeking solace in the ER. Got a shot - "8" of morphine and "50" of Vistaril. Got straight fast and only a slight buzz out of it. Scared the nurses when I asked if I can leave yet. Clear headed. Scared myself. Talked to doctor following day. Her opinion/treatment - break the 6 pills she was going to give me (VicES) in half - take a half a pill a day for 6 days - It'll be hell but you have to go through it. Unfortunately, the MS was barely enough to fix me. 3.75mgs of hydrocodone isn't doing a thing...so I took one and a half of them last night and drank 8 beers. Boy, this is much better than that opiate problem I had. Like Ol' Bill Burroughs once said - If junk sickness lasted 24 hours you could kick it no problem, but upwards of 7-10 days is almost impossible. I'm not seeking toooo much sympathy. Really. I'm not despondent. I'm doing this for myself, my wife and my baby girl. I know that I WILL have to get back on Vicoprofen sooner or later. Doctor won't go higher, much to my chagrin and happiness believe it or not. So since it does work...I'll have to go back. I've played all my cards with my doc now though. All I know is that the pullback is much stronger when you go from alot to none. She scoffed at a 10% reduction. I've been off and on mostly hydrocodone for 8 years...sometimes up to Percodan, Demerol, but mostly Vicodin, Vicoprofen, Empirin #3, Tylenol #3,#4 ****...the list goes on...I really want to get back to where I can get 30 a month, they do their job and I live my life. Dropping off like this has me bumming cough syrup off of co-workers...Pathetic lot we are. By the way - got my "starter pack" of Paxil on Sunday too. Decided I'd wait until I got off my drinking kick before I decide to start that. 8 beers and a Paxil sounds kind of counter-productive. Anyway, I enjoyed typing this. Cathartic - even if only for the moment.



by Mike to Brighty, Brian et al, May 02, 2000 12:00AM
What gives with the dreams! Oh the scores that you make in your dreams! Mine last night was about a friend - a beautiful girl turned heroin addict turned sad girl turned I don't know anymore. I was with her - we were at her folks house for some reason and I found Narco! Never even taken it before! Not even sure if it's what I'd want right now...! Heard it on here...Now I'm dreaming about lost friends and dope. Dope is what it is. ****, am I alone in the dream thing? I think not, but help me realize that I'm not by telling me so. Unfortunately,(fortunately actually:) the scores in the dreams are always way too good to be true. REALLY a let down when you wake up though.....junk sick. ****, this day sucks:)

by Mike to Brighty, Brian et al, May 02, 2000 12:00AM
Well, I've officially lost my mind. Talked to my doctor's assistant a coupla hours ago...told her I'm having a very hard time with the "taper program" that I'm on...Am taking Valium, Lomotil, and drinking heavily to counteract it...HATE the feeling of being "drugged" - which IS the only way to describe a Valium high. It's gummy and it sucks. So to all you in the medical field out there - when you think you are doing ANYONE a favor when you put them on a short term taper - less than a week - ALL you are doing is making sure that they go immediately back to the drug of choice. I'm thinking of pulling out all the stops now. Why? I put my trust in my doctor - what did I get? Cold Turkey. I could have done THAT on my own. Now I have a doctor that is going to question EVERY script that she writes for me. Sympathy? Addict gets none. I want to do this, I have to do this (Yeah, I know the **** of - well, you're well on your way to feeling better...USELESS right now.) I think the key is not only getting rid of the "habit" chemically, but the drill of taking "pills" during the day. If I could take SOMETHING that would make me feel just OKAY - NOT euphoric. I swear to God, I'm not craving euphoria right now...I'm craving normalcy. And I know exactly what will give me that. I am so disappointed in my doctor right now - I didn't finish my story - Doctors assistant promised to talk w/the doctor and call me back...............it's 6:30. They're NOT calling back. Even a pep talk woulda been better than the brush off...The "get a different doctor thing" doesn't help me right now either...this is NOW and I'm running down now. Sorry to clutter this board with this. I'm disappointed in myself for getting this way, disappointed in the medical industry for making me this way (another story), disappointed in the lack of sympathy by people that do not know the all consuming feeling of narcotic withdrawal and disappointed that I'm this concerned with all of it. I tried to be honest - it got me nothing more than I had. It's like telling your boss you stole something...offering to return it and getting fired and prosecuted for your honesty. Why the hell did I think my doctor would understand this? ****. Well, here's to a reaaaaalllll rough night. "If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand" Thanks in advance for allowing the rant. As irrational as I am right now.



by tom, May 03, 2000 12:00AM
Mike,

you sound well and truly lost tonight. Been where you are SO many times ... Mike you must believe me: you need to seek out an AA or NA meeting tomorrow if not tonight. No one understands us but our fellow addicts. You might as well talk to the wall as talk to someone who hasn't been where we are. Only another struggling, recovering addict can lend you the kind of strength you need now. I think the worst thing about being an addict is the lonliness, anyway. You say you're chucking down Valiums and Lomotils and working the walk-ins for whatever they will give you. My memories of those goddamn clinics is hateful. It is so humiliating and dehumanizing. And the inevitable contempt punctuated with indifference you no doubt are getting from the staff of these clinics only makes you feel more isolated and even further from any meaningful help. The Valium, combined with the Lomotil and as many hot baths as you can stand will help you get through the night. But nothing will get better until you share your pain with people just like us in an AA or NA meeting. It doesn't matter what kind of meeting -- most addicts are hooked on multiple kinds of drugs anyway. But believe me, there is no magic combination of alternate drugs that will fix you. You must make contact with another human being who can lend you their strength -- and in helping you get through the night, they will help themselves. What Bill W. disovered about fellow addicts being the only ones who could help in this thing of ours is profound. The hand