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Opioid cross tolerence?

by Joe, Jan 25, 2001 12:00AM
Dr.Steve,



I was wondering if tolerence to opioid pain meds translates to tolerence to other pain meds specificially fentyl.  The reason for my question, I'm having a medical out patient procedure done next week and I will be given I.V fentyl as an anestetic.  But since I am tolerant to my (presrcibed)oxycodone pain meds, I didn't know if the doctor should be giving me a higher dose of fentyl to handle the pain of the procedure or is this a mute point when it comes to fentyl?

Member Comments (19)

by Jim from Ohio, Jan 25, 2001 12:00AM
Hello Joe!





Yes, it can make a difference since they are both opiods.  Even though fentanyl is a morphine derivative and oxycodone is a codeine derivative, my experience shows that fact will not change anything.  Depending on how high of a dose of oxycodone you are on however, you may not have a high enough tolerence to warrant an increase in the fentanyl dose.



I would make sure that the physician ordering the fentanyl (whether it be an anesthesiologist, radiologist, etc.) knows the amount of oxycodone you take by telling that person YOURSELF.  Don't rely on the information being relayed to them via the form you fill out when you check-in or the nurse who swares they will tell them - do it yourself.  Voice your concern about pain BEFORE and DURING (if you will be conscious) the procedure.



If you have any more questions, please ask.





Good luck!

Jim

by cindi, Jan 25, 2001 12:00AM
Joe, I agree with Jim,  Make sure you are the one to tell the Dr/anesthesiologist.  Being a nurse myself I do know how some important facts do get "lost" in the schuffle.  After i got out of treatment for opiate addiction i was taken immediately to surgery and made sure everyone knew about my high tolerance to opiates.  Good luck.

by tom to, Jan 25, 2001 12:00AM
I don't know what your specific daily intake of oxy is, but unless you're addicted and taking handfuls of the oxy's instead of the 2 you're supposed to be on per day, I doubt if it wil be much of a factor in your fentenyl dose. Fentenyl is, by weight, the most powerful narcotic on earth. I doubt if the anethesioligist will increase your initial dose. He may monitor your vital signs a little more closely to see if you're coming out of it early. But I betcha he doesn't increase the intitial dose of that stuff. I've had it for back surgery while I had a 30 Vicodin per day habit. I didn't tell them anything about my habit and it certainly didn't interfere with the fentenyl knocking me out. I'd say it will be more of a factor for your post-op pain medication. That's when your tolerance will affect the relief you get. Of course, you've got the Oxy to use, anyway, I assume, and that stuff should take care of whatever hurts. Good luck.

by to doc dan from joe, Jan 26, 2001 12:00AM
Thanks to all of you for your responce, I am taking 8 roxicodone (40 mg of oxycodone a day).  Unfortunatley, its wearing off so fast(2 last about 3 hrs) that it doesn't cover me the entire day.  I'm kind of worried, I just had it increased from 6 to 8 /day and if I go back and say its still not enough he will start to think  otherwise, but I am taking them for real pain, no abuse here.  I read on this forum that people who don't abuse oxy are as rare as a 3 dollar bill, that kind of thinking makes me nervous when asking my doc to increase my pain meds for ligitimate reasons

by To sick and scared from Neena, Jan 26, 2001 12:00AM
Hey, where are you?  I'm having surgery (female stuff) next week, probably.  I'm terrified of the pain.  I came clean with my Ob/Gyn...hopefully they can keep me comfy.  Last surgery really sucked.  I am wondering how you are.  Things are OK here.  Not clean, but not binging or the like.  Still love the high...funny thing...I actually have real pain and now I can't take opiates.  Can't wait til the Verced and Demerol in the hospital.  Gotta run, my back is killing me.  Take Care, Neena

by tom to joe, Jan 26, 2001 12:00AM
I notice you're taking the short acting version of oxy. There is no time-release effect with roxicodone. It is not unusual at all for you body to process straight oxycodone in four hours. Pretty standard for narcotics. Ask him for OxyContin. They are 12-hour time release. Used properly in the right amount (meaning don't chew them up, but swallow them whole), they will provide pain relieve superior to almost anything short of methadone. This could solve your problem without alarming your doc. Just ask him about the twelve-hour time release OxyContin. They work like gangbusters and won't be abused nearly as often if patients take them whole, as opposed to chewing them up for an instant, highly addicting rush. Check em out. The key to good pain management is steady, continual small inductions of opiates, as opposed to waiting 4 hours and then taking a dose that hits you like a truck, then runs out in two hours. Good luck.

by To sick and scared from Neena, Jan 27, 2001 12:00AM
I am having surgery next week and have told my doctor of my addiction to Vicoden ES.  What are my options for pain relief?  Will the hospital know exactly what to do?  Should I ask my therapist/MD?  The pain after the procedure last time required 3 Vics ES at a time and even that was still extremely painful.  I am terrified and almost willing to cancel surgery if they cannot promise to relieve my pain.  Any help will be useful.  Thanks, Neena

by tom to neena, Jan 27, 2001 12:00AM
ask for PCA, Patient Controlled anesthesia. It's a little machine with a container of morphine in it. I was on one aftr back surgery. It attaches to you through your IV tube on your hand. You get a button that you can push whenever you need pain relief. It's great! You can give yourself very small, controlled doses of pain medicine when you need it. I used it and it kept me pain free but absolutely not "drugged up," that is, I was perfectly lucid and awake, could visit with my family or watch TV, completely pain free. Ask for it, Neena. It's called PCA.

by To sick and scared from Neena, Jan 27, 2001 12:00AM
They will give a codiene addict Morphine at home?  This is something that I can utilize for 5 days?  Neena

by tom to neena, Jan 28, 2001 12:00AM
I apologize for misunderstanding your post. I assumed you were going to be in a hospital where they use PCA. I would certainly discuss your post-op pain treatment with your doctor before going into surgery. Sometimes, an opiate addict still needs to take advantage of their relief.



However, as long as your use is supervised, I imagine you will come through fine. Since your drug of choice was codiene, your doc will probably try to avoid codeine. MY guess is, he'll give you Ultram, which is not opioid in structure but affects the brain in the same way. If he offers Ultram take it. It's slow acting, that is, it takes about an hour before it takes effect  and works better after your second dose. But it's a very potent pain reliever and may be considered less likely to "awaken the monster" of addiction in you.



Beware of any bold promises by your doctor if all he gives you is an antiimflamatory like Voltarin or daypro. they might be good for arthritus pain, but post-surgical pain? I doubt if that would give you much relief. But you might mention the Ultram. A lot of doctors feel more comfortable prescribing it because it is not a scheduled narcotic, even though it provides pain relief the same way that an opiate does.

by to Neena from John B., Feb 14, 2001 12:00AM
I am so soory to hear you are having such problems. I just am so ashamed and disapionted with myself. I can't stop this crazy cycle. I still take percodan. I know it made me loose my job a very good one. Then I went to work for my wife at 1/8 the pay. Now I have jumped back into the work force with a great job to try again.The day after I started I went to the doctors and you know what happens there (another script)I am a bad example and can't be of any help to anyone trying to get off this crazy ride. I feel I will fail with this new opertunity. This drug does cloud your jugment and I need to be sharp all the time or many people could get hurt. All my atemps to quit have failed. I have been tying for 17 years. I know I have what I need to be a great success but this drug keeps knocking me right back down. The purpose of this site is to strengthin one another and I just can't do that. I feel I just don't have what it takes.





I will check back though. Hope you are doing well now,  JOHN B.

by From John B. to all, Feb 14, 2001 12:00AM
C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\SARAH.bmp

by Ronnie(ABOUT THOSE DRS THAT MAKE US SUFF, Mar 30, 2001 12:00AM
To: To Neena from John B.
Hi: I had back surgery in about the year 1981-2.I was so afraid of taking a chance with surgery that I went through about 20 months of H***ish PAIN from the sciatica until my left leg