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Pain killer alternatives

I'm a computer programmer.
I have tendenitis on both forarms,
Ehler Danlos (mild), and a history
of drug addiction.  The drugs
were from age 13-18, and I've been
clean about 20 years (rehab, NA, AA).

I live on Viox for my arms, 50MG a day.
I'm still in a lot of pain, and I can only
code for an hour or 2 before I can't
type anymore.

What are my alternative drugs?  Anaprox
and familiy rip holes through my stomach,
and real opiates are off limits.  I see
Ultram, but it seems like some kind off
opiate cross-over that I should stay away
from.
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Avatar universal
Maybe you should do some research into Temgesic. The main ingredient is a partial opiod agonist called buprenorphine. It is an semi-synthetic opioid, but it only produces partial agonist qualitys that kill pain for long periods of time and rarely produces a narcotic "high." Buprenorphine is also used in very high doses to treat opioid addiction in such drugs as Subutex and combined with naloxone in the drug brand named Suboxone. I am currently on Suboxone because I have spent 8 years addicted to Oxycontin and Percocet and Vicodin and Heroin and any other opioid I could find. I believe that buprenorphine, a drug that has been in use for more than 40 years could be the waive of the future. once again it is called Buprenorphine- Buprenex (for iv,im,sc injection), Temgesic, Subutex, and Suboxone all for sl (sub-linguial) administration. Let me know what you think about what you find out, ask her doc, and tell me what you come up with, my name is jc. Thank you.
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271792 tn?1334979657
Good Morning!

The forum is alive and well. Unfortunately, You entered into a thread that is 6 years old. You need to hit the button at the buttom that says "Back to Furm". Then, up top, on the left, you will "Post a Question". Hit that and follow the instructions. Post exactly what you did here. You will then get responses from good and helpful people in here.

Hope to see your new post.

Take care!
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Avatar universal
Is this forum still active?  I have been given an assignment to find an alternative to Percocet and Vicoden for a young adult who has severe non-malignant pain from an open wound that is taking a long to heal.  The person has been taking Percocet and Vicoden for about 1-1/2 years.  She has had to surgeries, and the open wound is taking a long time to heal.  The mother is very concerned that the daughter has a physical dependence on the Vicoden, which has been prescribed in high strengths.  I have very much enjoyed reading through this forum.  Even though "broom" dismissed a lot, really appreciated his thorough questioning; it really educates an "outsider" like me.  Inferred that spook, who everyone rightly appreciates, has his own addiction?  Maybe that's wrong, but I sure hope he's okay.  This forum, at least what I see, is from 2001 ... probably many new treatments available now.  
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Avatar universal
Hi guys,
  I was wondering if some of you would help me with something. I read all your postings every night. I haven't disappeared.I'm still giving my daughter all the information I get from all of you. But today I need to ask you something. I wrote you about my health problems.So I won't go there again. Here's my question. I had to see my neurologist today. I have trouble walking now due to damage to my back from surgeries and disk disease. He said 3 Lortab 7.5 a day was too many. I've never increased my dosage even though I could take 4 a day. I have percocet for severe pain and I only take it when I have to. But then he told me he wants me to consider taking MS Cotin. He said it is Morphine. I don't get it. I don't get much relief from my pain med but he's worried about me taking 3 Lortab and then tells me to consider Morphine. Please, is there logic behind this? He said Morphine would be better for my pain and longer lasting. But isn't it stronger than hydros? I refuse to take anything that will make me loopy. I can't stand that feeling. He said I wouldn't get that off MS Cotin. I know some of you have a lot of knowledge on these meds. I really need some feed back on this. I also have to consider my daughter that is addicted to hydros. She thinks this is a great idea. Do you think it would be dangerous to have this drug around her? Please give me your views. I really appreciate the honesty I read on this forum. Sometimes it scares me but that's a good thing because I can be bolder with my daughter knowing the dangers. Thanks. I've told my cousin about this site. Her daughter is withdrawing from oxycotin. I hope she gets some help here as well.
    Thanks again, Kerrie
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Avatar universal
First thing - keep all these meds away from the daughter. I suggest you invest in a home safe (seriously) they aren't that expensive. Hopefully Luke spook will respond as he can give you the "COMPLETE and ACCURATE" pharmacological take. Hydrocodone is a fancy synthesis of codiene. Morphine has for ever been the benchmark for dose vs painkilling effectivness and I suspect that is where your doc is coming from. You will probably at this point get better and more lasting relief from morphine at a "relatively" lower dosage. Understand that all of these drugs are fire for anyone with dependency issues. spook?
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Avatar universal
Silicon is right.  Morphine has been around for ages.  All of these meds are highly addictive.  You seem to be taking them for pain and nothing else.  No matter how little, are what BRAND you take.....You will experience withdrawals if ever you have to be taken off. This does not mean that you are a branded addict. You have been fortunate to find a doctor to treat your pain.  I am living in one of the worse States for pain treatment.  We fall behind every state in the country in the way  of advancements toward effective treatment w/ opioids.  Your doctor seems to be educated on these matters.  How to titrate your meds, and wean you if necessary,but it looks like your problems are life long.  Stop the worry over this.  Society has made chronic patients feel like scum of the earth.
Now on the issue of daughter.......Take Silicon's advice.  I know in modern treatments modalities one question they sometimes ask is...Do you have a family member that is addicted.  They won't prescribe in these cases.  This is to avoid diversion.  So maybe you shouldn't mention this.  You need your meds.  Let's pray that your daughter gets the help she needs.  We are the one's who pay the price for diversion.  

Best Wishes,

Annie
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Avatar universal
I did not want to stick my nose in your business but I was a little concerned about you jogging and the chest pain etc. Brisk walking is a very good form of exercise as well and I think in your case....the safest. Angina is really nothing to play with,   take care and have a nice evening    my best wishes to Marty    love to all   cindi
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Avatar universal
I did call for my test results yesterday but they probably won't be in until early next week.  As far as the arrythmia goes, I think it is more stress related than anything in my case.  The chest and arm pain(agonizing)seem to also hit me most when I'm in a stressful situation.  I was told that anytime you get these pains, irreversible damage is being done to your heart muscle.  That's a dreadful thought!

I told my doctor about the jogging and he said to take it easy and just do a brisk walk instead and practice deep breathing so I don't hyperventilate.  Probably good advice for me!

Take care of yourself and be well, J.B.
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Avatar universal
let us know when you get the results of your testing back,   Did you doc give you any indication as to what may be causing th arrythmia?  Hopefully it is something that medication will be able to take care of.  Yes, big side effect of Nitro headaches.  I remember once I had to put nitropaste on a patient and got some on my are without realizing it,  I ended up with a major headache.  Does your doc know you are jogging?  Is this jogging something new for you or is your body used to it?  Just be careful ok?  I used to dance (I was going to be a professional but went to nursing school instead, did aerobics etc.  I felt really good while doing it, now the only time I get real exercise is when I'm in my pool. but I do chase toddlers around all day at work and then my son is only 3 he kddps me going.  I am sending my daughter to dance since she was 2 she is now 7 and she is also doing soccer.  I want her to become active and remain that way.  Too many kids want to do the computer thing all day.  I tried the slimfast, my big problem is I can't drink just one    I have to go for more,  one time I did a shixpack of slimfast in one evening, I was so embarrassed when my husband asked where the slimfast went.  Hey, I'm an addict what can I say?  well, I just hope everything is ok with you   take care   Love to all   cindi
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Avatar universal
I ran again this morning and made it all the way around my property which is about 1.8 miles.  Well I walked alot anyway when I got winded.  My Mom has also suggested Slimfast so I going to try it.  I surely hope that you will be able to get out soon and enjoy this Spring weather!  I've been pretty inactive all winter and my body felt like **** most of the time.  I love to swim but don't have access to a pool.  I suppose that I could jump into my pond but it's a little too cold for that today.

Thanks and take care, Annie!  J.B.
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Avatar universal
....There is no doubt, exercise plays a big part in your total health.  You know what else is good?? Skipping meals and drinking Slim fast, Sustacal(SP?), and Ensure.  This nearly brought me back to life, and it sustained my health during that long hospital stay after the mva.  I still have one for lunch or dinner every now and then.  
JB...You make me want to run outside and jump for joy....lol  I can't wait till I am mended......I will go swimming, I think.  Hey....this is easy on the joints, and does wonders for the heart.......Do you have access to a pool???  

Good to hear from you!
Annie
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Avatar universal
Thanks for the supporting comments!  I don't have the complete results of my test yet but the technician told me I had an irregular heartbeat.  I don't know how serious this can be yet but I was RX'd Nitrostat(nitroglycerin pills).  I've only needed them one time and it worked quickly but I did get a headache(main side effect).  It felt like my blood pressure instantly dropped and my chest and shoulder pain subsided.

I jogged again yesterday for maybe half a mile.  My knees are feeling better now.  I used to laugh when my doctors suggested excersizing.  Afterall, I have arthritis and a bad back! The body must need a certain amount of excersize to stay healthy.  Like they say, "use it or lose it!"

About the deleted threads:  I've seen this happen a few times.  One time Tom and I were discussing the use of opiods to treat depression and bingo--they were gone the next day!  J.B.
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Avatar universal
JB, sorry to hear about the angina, I hope everything is ok with you....question for patrick...Is it me or did someone get rid of the thread regarding adipex and phentermine?  does this (deleting questions) happen alot?  hope everyone is doing well   love to all     cindi
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Avatar universal
I know you are expecting an answer from Spook but I just wanted to tell you this.  Last Wednesday I had a stress test which required me to walk on a treadmill.  I had to stay on the machine until my pulse rate went up to 145 bpm.  After 4 minutes I had only gone from 90 to 120 bpm so they sped the machine up to where I was almost running. At seven minutes I finally reached the target rate and the test was stopped.  I was higher than a kite and felt great!  Don't endorphines cause the "joggers high"?  Anyway, my legs were not hurting and I felt pretty good for about twenty minutes.  The next day, my knees had swollen and I could hardly walk.  Yesterday, I jogged for about ten minutes and got that same buzz again.  I'm getting ready to do it again this morning.  It's either endorphines or lack of oxygen to the brain but I like it!  J.B.
P.S. the stress test was done to check my heart because I've been having angina pains lately.
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Avatar universal
Just wanted to tell you that I think your enthusiasm is great.  I wish that I could jog.  Maybe once the healing process is over and now that the plate is out, I will be able to.  I have a question for you.  Why does the swelling occur??  That has been happening to me.  When I walk around, the center of my leg swells like a balloon, and it's very painful.  I was just curious.  Sorry to interupt here, but it's always nice to hear from you.

Love,
Annie
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Avatar universal
Sorry to hear about the angina pains. Maybe they'll give you some of that sublingual morphine for it (now that's a party!). Both Dan and spook have mentioned the possibility of permanently compromising your brain's ability to manufacture endorphins, no matter how far you run. That's my concern. If there's a test, I'd sure like to at least rule it out. Good to hear from you JB. Enjoy your jog and I hope your angina leaves you alone.
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Avatar universal
ok spook, you brought it on yourself: #7 -I've been basically on rx opioids non-stop for 30 years (AND i DO MEAN NON-STOP). How do I determine if I have a permanent endorphin deficit and what do I do about it if I do?
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Avatar universal
Both my husband and I are detoxing together right now. He has been taking Oxytcontin (240mg/day) for 6 months, but  has been on all the levels of bup you can get plus Lortab, Stadol, and the slew of anti depressants out there. So, as his dosage wentup, so did mine. I finally had to admit to him (1.5 years ago) that I was an addict and stealing his pills. We got to be very desperate with this drug. Finally, I found a wonderful doctor who is helping us both detox and neither of us are having any withdrawl symptons AT ALL. And believe me, I detoxed on my own once and it wasn not fun. Here is the combination of drugs we are taking:

Buprenex - this is the main thing. We both started at 4 shots a day. I am down to 1 and he is still at 3. He was addicted for much longer than I and also has Fibromyalgia.

Catapress (Clonodine) - This is actually a blood pressure med but works for some reason although I only take half at a time as I fall asleep otherwise!

Valium - for the anxiety that comes with withdrawl

Flexeril - I was also hooked on Some (which increases the effects of the oxy) so Doc gave me some lesser strenght muscle relaxers.

It is the best move I have made in my life because I feel that Oxycontin was ruining my life. I have gained 35 pounds, I never want to do anything unless I am high and I woke up each morning feeling like a truck just ran over me until I got my fix (eventually hubby just started splitting his stuff with me cuz I neeeded it).

We are not out of the woods yet, but I have not had an Oxy for over a week now and no cravings. What I am afraid of is that these detox meds give me a little buzz (more tiredness) and that I can handle being "straight" all the time. Of course, my husband is afraid of the pain coming back. But he is goint to see a new pain mgmt spec soon.

Wish us luck!
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Avatar universal
Morphine Euphoria;

Pleasant euphoric state, including strong feeling of contentment, well-being,exquisite orgasmic tingly, luscious yum, yum like feeling all over body and brain,beautiful vivid dreams while still awake,feels like every atom in the universe is in just the right place and lack of concern with reality"sorry whats that,I forgot",shut the F..k up would you,emotions,life,death...forming part of the affective reinforcing response of the drug.
Opioid stimulation of positive reward system, normally "reserved" to species-specific `survival` behaviors, provides the kind, sensitive-human user/abuser/and rampant drug fiend deviant with an experience that brain equates(substitutes) with profoundly important events like eating, drinking, and sex-"oh how naughty,I am disgusted","I told you to keep quiet,this is important,alright","uh, oh Alrighty then Man,chill out".

Opioid-induced Sedation and Anxiolysis

Produces anxiolysis, sedation, and drowsiness,"sorry what was that again"?"ah!!!" Produces anxiolysis, sedation, and drowsiness,I said, but level of sedation is not as deep as that produced by CNS depressants."um sorry I just fell asleep could you repeat that?". I said, but level of sedation is not as deep as that produced by CNS depressants."um sorry I just fell asleep AGAIN could you repeat that?".Oh well stuff YOU, miss out then on this really important knowledge.

Mental clouding prominent, accompanied by lack of concentration, apathy, complacency, lethargy, reduced mentation, and sense of tranquility,"whats that man,you say tranquility,like in STP,wow man sounds cool,anyway what was that white powder you injected into me about 20 minutes ago,got any more"."I told you to be quiet"(silence).But in dependent people,increased mentation,motor activation,more concentration-unless you got a Liddle BId too stoned.
Anxiolytic actions from `mu` receptor inhibition of neuronal activity in locus coeruleus, (norepinephrine).  
Withdrawal events will be perceived as life-threatening,"are you threatening me","Shut up PLEASE"!"you are starting to embarrass me", and subsequent physiologic reactions often lead to renewed opioid consumption.
Users self-inject for many reasons:
1. to try to re-experience `extreme` euphoria experienced after first few injections,tablets,snorts,whatever and if they stopped for a few months or more could get nicely HIGH again.
2. to maintain state of pleasure and well-being
3. to prevent mental discomfort associated with reality(reality is a disease caused by lack of drugs,we all know that!right?,anybody,help,;^ or
4. to prevent withdrawal symptoms.

Behavioral "theories" accounting for continued opioid use:especially #7.

1. Continued use avoids distress and dysphoria associated with withdrawal.
2. Euphoria produced by opioids leads to continued use.
3. Preexisting dysphoric or painful affective states are alleviated.
4. Euphoric response is an atypical response to opioids that occurs in individuals with preexistent psychopathology or Hyper sensitive Opioid/VTA systems .
5. Preexisting psychopathology/sociopathology,screwed up society or having a bad life(blame your parents,society,anybody,but yourself) may be basis for initial experimentation and euphoria, but repeated use is prompted by desire to avoid withdrawal.
6. Some individuals have deficient endorphin systems that are corrected by opioid use.
7. Repeated use of opioids leads to "permanent" dysfunction in endorphin system such that normal function requires continued use of exogenous opioids.(hmm sounds like I could exploit this one)
8. Drug effects and drug withdrawal can become linked through environmental cues and internal mood states...emotions and external cues recall distress of withdrawal or memory of opioid euphoria or opioid reduction of dysphoria or painful affective states.

And thats about it folks,I have not had any Opioids for 15 days now and I just drank a bottle of beer and feel Terrific,but nothing like that injection of heroin I had about 6 weeks ago,oh well.I did not inject any white substance before writing this,I think the beer is just SOOOOO Pleasant and gets me so High.Lucky I only got one bottle...and only drink once a week or so;getting hungry now ,goodbye and `have a nice life`.  




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Avatar universal
I suppose we all have our own stories of pain etc.  GOd bless the "chosen One"  My love and prayers to you and Marty    How is she doing?  Love cindi
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Avatar universal
Yes, many of my family have had problems with drugs and alcohol. I was 19 years old when I got started on opiates for injuries sustained while serving in the military.  Prior to that time, I was innocent of anything(booze,nicotine,sex,etc.) When I returned stateside my family barely recognized me in more ways than the obvious.  I was a full blown addict and in search of drugs in Downtown Midwest USA.  Was I a chosen one?  You bet!
The drug found me before I even knew that it existed.  
I got little support from my family during those times and was mainly ostrasized in general. They cared little of the medals that adorned my uniform. I was sick and confused for a long time.  Thanks to my friends in AA and my own inner strength(God)I never pulled the trigger of the gun that I had pointed at my head!  J.B.

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Avatar universal
Ahhh  Euphoria, My first experience with Euphoria was the best feeling I have ever had, unfortuantely, I have not found that feeling since, (at least not an exact euphoria) and like Tom and JB my search for that has led me to many years of addiction.  I have a typical "addictive personality" and for many years I have been the "strong person" in my family, so in order to live up to that name, to hide the fact that I cry, hurt etc. just like everyone else I have found that if I stay in this state of "euphoria" I can keep from crying etc.and let thime think I am superwoman.  My grandpa was an alcoholic and I believe it did run on that side of the family, this could maybe have a direct correlation as to why I am the addict?  Not my sister, my mom etc.   Just me?  I am just curious, Tom and JB do you have anyone else in your family that suffers from addition like siblings etc?  or are you the chosen ones?  Thanks guys and have a great day    Love to all   cindi
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Avatar universal
Buprenorphine trials(IV)take home dose,self administer, were carried out here in Perth Western Australia,by a Medical Doctor(15 or more years ago) who thought it may be a good idea,He ended up up with cues of people leading into the streets,All of them Opioid Addicts and all of them either abusing,selling,or failing to taper off the Buprenorphine.It is an Opioid mixed agonist/antagonist,and a reasonable (better than Codeine) painkiller and has abuse potential.It is apparently quite an antideppresant also.
In the end(about 2 years later) the project? was deemed a failure and shut down by the Health Dept,however,if used appropriately(sublingual) and with gradual taper and close personal councilling/obsevation,it would make an excellent step down from a strong Opioid dependence,but not in any way cure the Addiction component,for that you need specialized Psychiatric intervention and currently we have a lack of suitably trained professionals,and NO MONEY...
As far as Terahydroisoquinoline(THIQ) goes,it is present in the brains of alcoholics to a much larger degree than Normals(due to genetic reasons) and is the cause of their increased Euphoria from alcohol and subsequent alcoholism.It participates in the same Dopamine Euphoria regulation sytems that Opioids are ligands to however I am not familiar with any involvement of it in the Opioid Euphoric state.Any new knowledge or references would be appreciated.
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Avatar universal
Currently Many Scientists believe that Some people not only have exquisite sensitivity to Opioid Euphoria,but also have Faulty or deficient Endorphin Systems leading to increased NEED states and modified responses to stress,etc.
They believe that Genetics underscores these Conditions,but have not found any Neurological or Biochemical evidence to Support this as far as I know.(I am going to look at some of the latest research papers)
N.b Practically Invariable ones first experience to Opioids produces Dysphoria not euphoria.So you may be onto something here.
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