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MedHelp Member's Question

A prescription to help with Vicodin withdrawals? Is there one? Ty

by squirrel1970, Apr 11, 2003 12:00AM
I am currently addicted to Vicodin ES. I am taking (when I have it) anywhere from 10-15 a day. I have been addicted for about 18 months, hardcore for the last 6 months or so. I have to take at least 5 at a time to feel normal. The other day when I ran out, of course I was going thru horrible wd's. Sweating (palms and soles of feet mostly), agitation, thoughts, etc and etc.

I had a bottle of Stadol NS Nosespray that I had been given a LONG time ago for migraines, and that I had never really used cuz I didn't like it. But I was desperate so I did 2 blasts. And BAM! ALL of my wd symptoms were 100% gone, yet I DIDN'T feel "high" or "euphoric" like the Vicodins made me.

So my question-is there a drug that can be prescribed, that "takes away" your wd symptoms, yet DOESN'T get you high? I think this would be the perfect drug for me to use to finally get off of these pills and take my life back! Used in conjuction of course with other treatments like N.A. etc. I keep hearing here and on the web about "suboxone." Is this a drug like that? I have an appt with my doc on monday to confess everything to him; I am pretty sure he already knows. He was going to call me in a script for some Vics 2 weeks ago-he called the pharm and asked the pharmacist if I had seen any other drs and gotten this med; of course they told him yes and he refused to call it in. I haven't spoken to him since then. Thank you all for your help and support. And God bless our troops!
Member Comments (54)

by RStew, Apr 11, 2003 12:00AM
To: squirrel
Squirrel, My name is Rob. I am glad to make your aquaintance. I am not a doctor and I will leave it up to the forum MD to answer your question. However, I do have a link to the FDA's webpage for buprenorphine (subutex / suboxone). If you are interested in a maintenance program using this medication, I would link up with the web page and print ALL of the information and give it to your doctor. The page has everything from the chemical makeup of the drug to information for the prescribing doctor / pharmacy etc. A ton of info!



This is the link:

http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/subutex_suboxone/default.htm. (just copy and paste)



Hang in there my friend. I had a 20 a day, 10mg vicodon HP addiction for 4 years. I am now into my 4th week of recovery (without a relapse). IT CAN BE DONE. Just keep swinging! Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help.



by Jones052, Apr 11, 2003 12:00AM
Squirel and Rob, Hi guys and WOW do I relate. I came out of a five day detox this week (Monday)from the same crud plus oxy right at the end. AA, therapy, chocolate have all been helping. I haven't found a withdrawl drug, but as I left the hospital I attending a meeting on nutrition (just to be a good DooBee). It turned out to be nutrition for depression and the mentioned the # 1 most effective treatment...exercise. SO, after a few days of walking 5 miles a day...I'm starting to see signs of life. Therapist says 6-8 weeks of psychological withdrawl, with the physical symptoms of anxiety...sweaty palms, leg spasms, chills and general ick. He DID however mention an antidepressant called Lexipro that has anxiety easing effects and NO ugly side effects. Guys, I can tell you that I have never in my 52 years been so comitted to NEVER feeling this way again....the best to both of you.

by Thomas03, Apr 11, 2003 12:00AM
BP897, so where are you?



"DISCOVER Vol. 20 No. 8 (August 1999)



Kicking Psychological Dependency



Dopamine makes you feel good and some people go to great lengths to get more. Ravers take Ecstasy and addicts snort cocaine just to tickle their dopamine receptors. One of the biggest obstacles to getting off drugs, former abusers say, is psychological dependency on the dopamine kick.



French researchers think they have the answer. Pierre Sokoloff of the French Institute of Health and Medical Research has found that a compound called BP897 fits right into the dopamine receptor and stops rats from acting like they need a fix. Sokoloff believes that while BP897 does nothing to stop physical addiction, it may someday help people break the habit of drug taking.



The link between drugs and dopamine isn't direct. The body is always producing small amounts of dopamine. Drugs like cocaine block the channels that suck extra dopamine back into the nerve cell. This creates a short-term high because the cell is flooded with dopamine that's not getting drained away again. However, if dopamine cleanup is repeatedly blocked through sustained drug use, the body can assume that it's making too much and stops producing natural dopamine, or kill off some of the receptors. Addicts have to take more and more drugs to stay happy.



Sokoloff trained rats addicted to cocaine to respond, like Pavlov's dogs, to a signal the same way they'd respond to a hit of cocaine. Sokoloff saw this as a model of how people's environment influences their drug-taking habits. If being in a bar reminds a drinker of how good a beer tastes, or being around cigarettes makes smokers want to smoke, the light coming on reminded the rats of how good the cocaine felt. They'd press a lever in the cage just to turn on the light, if cocaine wasn't available.



Then the rats were given doses of BP897. The chemical mimics dopamine's effects, but only partially, so the receptors get neither too much stimulation nor not enough. The mixture kept the rats from asking for cocaine when they saw the light. There are no side effects, say the researchers, except that the rats stopped wanting cocaine just from being around things that reminded them of the high.



The researchers at the French Institute of Health and Medical Research in believe BP897 may work against other kinds of drugs, too. Receptors are thickly clustered in a nerve knot in the center of the brain, just above the ears, which has long been known to harbor the center of dependence. Hopefully BP897 would blind addicts to the cues around them that said, how about a line? The effects of BP897 may not be dramatic enough to work against physical addiction, but it could help people who are addicted psychologically, such as tobacco smokers who can't quit because they need something to do, or marijuana smokers, who aren't physically addicted but still can't seem to stop."

by RStew, Apr 11, 2003 12:00AM
To: Jones052/Squirrel
Jonesie, I know what you're saying! This is SO NOT a game. I can't put into words how much it helped (during my withdrawl) to read the threads in this forum. And how much it hurts to see people like Sqirrel struggling for the answer, wanting to take that step. (we're here anytime you need to talk!)



Now that I am past the rough physical stage, I have to keep the demon 'in check' so it don't drag me back to hell. I can tell you, honestly as tough as the physical withdrawl is, it is magnified 100 fold if the psyche isn't taken out of the picture.

(depression, hoplessness, deep dark thoughts)>I felt like I was going mad!



I went to my doc and spilled my guts. I CAN'T taper (I'd eat every pill in a matter of minutes) I can't do maintenance 'cause I would get hooked on the treatment (I have a tendancy towards addiction) So I had to go it with no Narcotics.



My doctor put me on an anti-depressant (Effexor XR) and it made all the difference in the world. It took away the jitters, convulsions, leg and arm spasams. Didn't touch the flu type symptoms or the fatigue but I was comfortable 'cause I wasn't crawing in my skin. I am still taking it 4 weeks later because it also blocks the cravings for the narcotic.



Again, Squirrel / Jones...I am not a doctor (I'm a mechanical engineer) and I wouldn't dream of advising you which way to go, but I do want to say that a non narcotic treatment CAN work. If you are ready for the fight.  All my best... Rob

by oxic, Apr 11, 2003 12:00AM
To: Thomas03
....well the closest i could find was RubA535 in my medicine chest.....



Thats a pretty interesting read Thomas.

Do you think it will ever be available to the public???



percs

by squirrel1970, Apr 11, 2003 12:00AM
To: Jones052
that's funny you mention chocolate; the last time I was going through withdrawals (last weekend), I noticed I was eating a TON of chocolate (peanut m&m's to be specific). This was pretty surprising, seeing as how I normally don't eat chocolate more than once or twice a month!

Our bodies are strange and wonderful places : )

Thanks all for your help. Looking forward to hearing from the Forum M.D. on my post.

I'm also worried after reading about Suboxone on the FDA site that my dr is NOT qualified to prescribe it for me (or that he won't even if he is).

Hopefully my insurance in some way will cover me going to an addiction specialist.

Peace

by Thomas03, Apr 12, 2003 12:00AM
To: oxic
only to the really cool people

by mrmichael67, Apr 12, 2003 12:00AM
Hopefully, they can come up with a drug like that for opiates.

by vikequeen, Apr 12, 2003 12:00AM
A lot of people on here, the Doc included, tout the benefits of Sub/Bup, well one thing people should know is there is a lot of RED tape involved in trying to get it, I went to an outpatient detox center near DC and found out while there that my ins would cover it, however, I had to first purchase it at a special pharmacy that compounds it to sublingual instead of using it IM.

I would have to pay 400 up front for a 2 week supply and then wait around for my Ins co  to reimburse me, This is ****!



Can they make IT any harder on an addict? If I had 400 I could try to buy 400 dollars worth of vikes and try a taper, but seriously, this sucks, ultimatly I ended up going inpatient for 9 days, I stayed clean 35 days and relapsed, Now I am terrified. What have I done? I called my old Ortho doc and he gave me some vikes 5mg not a few mind you. Why can't I leave this demon alone?

It feels so good. Now to top it all off, we are going to visit my mother in law today for the first time since my rehab in late January, she knows I took some of her vikes and drank most of her codiene cough syrup, I always wanted to confess to her although she knows, but I went into her dresser drawer to get the vikes, thats BAD! I could see if it were in a med cab or a kitchen Cab. Time to pay the piper, I hope she will not bring it up, I am not ready to deal with it right now.



Any suggestions guys? I have not posted on here in a while but have still read everything, I remember how good I felt after getting out of Rehab now its all shot to hell.

Love to all and God Bless Baddgirl( Jan)

by MrsRat, Apr 12, 2003 12:00AM
To: Thomas
You said, "...BP897 fits right into the dopamine receptor and stops rats from acting like they need a fix."



Will BP897 help me?  I got the right nickname for it. :)

by rodewc, Apr 12, 2003 12:00AM
To: ~
Since falling off, am back on CT from VikeES, 10-15 p/day. I could use some 'how great sober is.. stories'.. .. . I hope to be as hippee/michael a yr from now. (354 more days). This is hard, so ramble on. I keep checkin in here and not seeing a lot of posts. A movie really helped w/ errant thoughts last night, and a bath w/ the body aches. But. It sucks~

by RStew, Apr 12, 2003 12:00AM
To: rodewc
Rodewc

Hang in there because being sober is great!



It's not just being sober either...It's having control of your life again! That's what it's all about! It's about NOT waking up and wondering what excuse to give your doctor or your friends to get more pills. It's about NOT opening your Vicodon bottle seeing 5 pills left and feeling dread cover you like a shroud.



I was taking 5 pills 4 times a day (10mg vicodon hp) for 4 years daily.



Three times a week I would have to leave work (without permission of my super) to make sure I made it to the doctor before he closed...Some times I didn't make it. During these times, I practically locked myself in my study and didn't come out...Then I would go into work late the next day so I could make the doctor's office my first trip. ALL OF THAT IS OVER NOW!



But please think about NOT going this alone. I went to see my MD and he gave me an anti-depressant that supressed the depression and jitters (restless arms and legs