This is just one more sad instance were decisions are made that universally effect everyone not because of the issue at hand but because of other issues that will have an impact as the way this ruling goes. If in fact what we're reading is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth... Oh well, sorry but it never is. So before I'd feel comfortable spouting opinions about the ruling as it was explained I'd rather give some of my own opinion about some of the info that has been offered here.
I didn't read anywhere that it said alcoholism isn't a disease, it just said they won't offer disability insurance for those who use substance abuse as a primary cause of their case.

First, The AMA has found Alcoholism to be a disease. Personally, I'd believe a organization whose purpose is the tx of human beings and their continued well being, before I'd get into bed with a group whose purpose isn't disposed anywhere, that it consistent. Judges rulings change from day to day. As the wind and the society changes so do the rulings. However, I'd love to know where justice white got his substantial body of medical literature!!! The AMA says it's disease, period. The political world weaves a very wicked web. It certainly gets the VA off the hook for treating that group. Nice move, boys... But that isn't the gist of the topic presented.
The entire concept that the validity of a disease has anything to do with things like, whether or not the person with the illness has done anything to account for them getting the illness, or that if someone is genitically predisposed to an illness has any bearing upon whether or not it is called a disease or if someone does something that might assist that person in getting that illness, is a red herring. Following that logic!!! one would deduce that if a person ate red meat that person should in no way receive any type of assistance in helping him or her if they had a heart or circulation problem aided from there eating meat. Our behavior is connected to a ton of things that cause illnesses and help in producing bad effects. Topics like these draw out very polarizing thoughts and feelings. Unfortunately, the brain god gave us is not always engaged while we're in  this mode.

It's funny but talk about some drunk who hurts themselves while under the influence and we all think " How horrible" but if we talk about a miner who contracts cancer, we say " Oh, the poor man". Both of these guys are suffering but for some reason we sweep right passed the pain and proceed right to the judgements and the opinions of what we think is morally right or wrong.

In fact, I find it curious that on a MB like this that intolerance in any form would pop it's head out. I guess as humans we have very short memories in order to protect ourselves... if you need that sort of thing!!!

Keep killin' those little critters!!!    Pauly

This is just one more sad instance were decisions are made that universally effect everyone not because of the issue at hand but because of other issues that will have an impact as the way this ruling goes. If in fact what we're reading is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth... Oh well, sorry but it never is. So before I'd feel comfortable spouting opinions about the ruling as it was explained I'd rather give some of my own opinion about some of the info that has been offerred here.
First, The AMA has found Alcoholism to be a disease. Personally, I'd believe a organization whose purpose is the tx of human beings and their continued well being, before I'd get into bed with a group whose purpose isn't disposed anywhere that I can find. Judges rulings change from day to day. As the wind and the society changes so do the rulings. However, I'd love to know where justice white got his substantial body of medical literature!!! The AMA says it's disease, period. The political world weaves a very wicked web. It certainly gets the VA off the hook for treating that group. Nice move, boys...
The entire concept that the validity of a disease has anything to do with things like, whether or not the person with the illness has done anything to account for them getting the illness, or that if someone is genitically predisposed to an illness has any bearing upon whether or not it is called a disease or if someone does something that might assist that person in getting that illness, is a red herring. Following that logic!!! one would deduce that if a person ate red meat that person should in no way receive any type of assistance in helping him or her if they had a heart or circulation problem aided from there eating meat. Our behavior is connected to a ton of things that cause illnesses and help in producing bad effects. Topics like these draw out very polarizing thoughts and feelings. Unfortunately, the brain god gave us is not always engaged while we're in  this mode.

sorry, i have no idea what you are talking about.
i point out again that this judge is only saying the va need not pay benifits for alcoholism, not that it is not a disease.

i do suggest that often people believe we intentionally create the hell in which we live. i do not need "understanding" from those who can NEVER understand what it is like to live as an alcoholic. it makes not one bit of diferance to my sobriety if it is called a disease or weakness. i am suprised that so many JUDGE THEIR FELLOW MAN not ever having taken the time or have the slightest interest in why so many normal and often successful, loving humans cannot prevent this painful and suicidal destruction. today i have lost the power of choice, only divine intervention has kept me sober,one day at a time, for 22years. again, to say we drink only because we want to is simplistic.
i am amazed that i have spent this time trying to explain to those who do not care. i cannot teach tolerance."contempt prior to investigation".
bobby

Of course the federal government would never deny anyone their benefits and have never even contemplated doing so for veterans.  But then again one should look at how long it took before they admitted and provide health care coverage for Agent Orange.

I would also ask if you've ever talked with those who try to get health care through the VA and more specifically how easy it was for them to obtain it?

Talk to several vets and you might be in for a rude awakening at what really goes in their hospitals and how they in turn treat those who risked all for our freedoms.  

Also, the Social Security system is just chomping at the bit to provide benefits to individuals as well, despite their struggle to stay solvent as more and more people turn to them to claim the benefits they were promised as their wages were being garnished all those decades to kick into the system.

Yea, let's take the findings of a bunch of politicians and bureaucrats over that of medical scientists.  Now that's sound judgement.

Too bad that ruling was in 1988 when the Supreme Court was more 'liberal'. Don't bring current politics into play.

Just as you can argue the govt doesn't want to pay out, one can easily argue that the medical community wants to designate it as a 'disease' so they can get insurance payouts.

Its a 2 way street and you seem to be always in the wrong lane.

I don't think the supreme court should weigh in on things like alcoholism or abortion or the right to die.  I feel that should be between a doctor and his or her patient, not the courts.  If my daughter was raped, etc I would not want her to have the baby because the court said it was the right thing to do and then be reminded of that day for the rest of her life if she didn't want it.  This can be debated till dooms day, we all have our options.  My brother in law was a alcoholic and because his insurance would not cover treatment because of the courts ruling and he was to weak to stop he died in his 40's.

This is all about politics, nothing more and nothing less.  For the last 40 years all we hear is over turning wade v roe, and frankly I'm sick of it all, as it comes up every time there is an election.  This is my option and I know there are many who disagree but it's how I feel.

Peace

Beagle

I am a recovering alcoholic. I, at one time, had so completely destroyed my life, I did not think it was even possible to rebuild it again. I was ready to do the unthinkable.
Today my life is so different, because of the "choice" I made back then to stop.
Yes,............choice.

My hubby is a vietnam veteran,....and I also know how he was screwed. Trying being in the battlefield, with a weapon that has no ammo. The horror stories he has told me!

I am not judging anybody, because I know I have been guilty of most things at one time or another.

I do advocate our ability to change what we can.

I think you guys are great!!!

So then you would agree that if the medical community decides that life begins at conception, there is no need to go to the Supreme Ct to have a ruling for abortion?

no one said that alcoholics do not play a part in the progression but not one ever went into a liqure store and asked for a bottle of something that will ruin his life then kill him.
this judge is not claiming it is NOT a disease but only that the va should not have to pay benifits. lets put a new definition in the dictionary for disease, "a condition that the va pays benifits for". i do not go to a supreme court judge for medical advice.
what about indians who turn out to have very large alcoholic rates and jews who have very little. it comes from one adjusting genetically to alcohol over thousands of years (by genetic selection ie. alcoholics dying before reproducing) and the other never being exposed until 200 years ago. what about the study of twins separated from family at birth with alcoholic parents who still have much higher rates. i agree, giving money to alcoholics is the worst thing we can do for them. if you say some of the richest, smartest, hardest working, successful men (even one who walked on the moon) just drink themselves to death "because it feels good" and not because of an overwhelming obsession, does not make sense. it causes much more pain in the end than pleasure.
yes there are many types of alcoholics but we ALL have one thing in common
a.when we start to drink we cannot control how much.
b.when we REALLY want to stop we cannot.

Finally,...............There is somebody with good common sense in charge. Why should tax payers have to foot the bill?!
You hear plenty of screaming about all the smokers do to add to the medical bills. Everyone is so quiet about all the money that goes towards the illnesses, and we wont even mention the crimes that are committed behind alcohol.
The last thing anyone needs is the old "its not my fault" right behind it. Of course, thats because there is alot of wheeling and dealing and back scratching going on at the "cocktail" parties. Politics and everywhere.You dont have the social pressure put on people who drink,.....only those who drink and drive.
I can not see one good reason to drink.
I dont think MOST people who claim to be social drinkers are being honest either. Alcohol does not taste good, most drink for the buzz, not for the "refreshing flavor"
I will admit, a Budweiser can be refreshing on a hot day.
But so can a pepsi, and I wont be embarrassed the next day for something I did or said.