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Talk about conflicting opinions !

by Upbeat, Jul 02, 2007 12:00AM
Its been 5 years now since I saw a gastro doc. Seeing how I like more then one opinion I set appointments to see 2 today. The first guy named Craig Gross was under the impression that if you have hep-c you should be doing TX no matter the condition of your liver or anything else. Treat Treat Treat was all he could say. I got to tell you he sounded like a sales man for Roche. A couple of hours later I saw a guy by the name of Gary Steven. This guy said the only time you should do TX is as a last resort. He said if your handling the virus without much damage then leave it alone as the treatment could cause more damage then the virus. Now 5 years ago I went through much the same thing. I saw a Gastro who was pro Tx, He was also under the impression that  at the first instant you knew you had chronic hep-c you need to treat. I then went and saw Dr weil here at the University Medical Center.  He has a whole wing at the hospital and after explaining my situtation to him he says forget TX and refers me to a DR Zhang. (could be the wrong spelling) Anyhow this guy wanted me to do some kinda herbs. It was like take four of these three times a day and take 2 of these twice a day and on and on. I might also mention quite spendy. Needless to say I forgot about that. Here I sit 5 years later and still nothen has changed. It seem everyone has their own opinion. Male 60 Geno 1b viral load 5 years ago 7 mil. Viral load today 3 mil. No liver biopsy.  I think I will do a fibrosure but not sure why.
                                                           Ron    
Member Comments (18)

by Upbeat, Jul 02, 2007 12:00AM
For those of you who would suggest I should see a hepatolgist.  Here in Tucson we have only one.  He is at the University Medical Center and it takes 6 months to see him.

                                                                                                       Ron

by pigeonca, Jul 02, 2007 12:00AM
To: Upbeat
I've heard very good things about Dr. Zhang, and I know that Chinese medicine can do just about everything short of curing hcv.  It can probably keep fibrosis from progressing and/or even reverse fibrosis, but it will not get rid of hcv.  That may not matter, if you have no sides from the virus and your liver is in reasonably good shape.

OTOH, most insurance doesn't pay for TCM and herbal treatments, which are nearly as costly as SOC.  Additionally, whatever the extent of your liver damage, it will probably increase more quickly after the age of 60 than it has up till now.  I'm 63 years old, stage 2, grade 2, so I was certainly able to hold off treatment if I so chose, but because of my age I decided to plunge in and get it over with.  Also I was suffering from fatigue, which influenced my decision.  Unfortunately, there's no cut and dried answer to your question.  All I know is that treatment was very hard on me, and I'm glad I did it now as I'd shudder to think what it would be like as an older person.

by FlGuy, Jul 02, 2007 12:00AM
To: Upbeat
Sounds like you could have saved time and a couple of co-pays with a coin toss.  The only opinion that it comes down to is yours.  Choose wisely, grasshopper.  Or, go up the road a hundred miles for a tie-breaking opinion. And then toss a coin.

by GrandmaA, Jul 02, 2007 12:00AM
I've been on Dr. Zhang's herbs over 4 years. I take 2 of the same on tx now and one is different. I took them for 3 years before I decided to tx. His formulas are terrific. I forgot to take them on my recent 4 day vacation and I was totally wiped out the first day without them. I just got home and took them tonight again.  My enzymes normalized on his herbs. They control the inflammation so they keep your liver from getting worse and could even make it better.
II have my last 2 months shipment. I will be done with tx in 9 weeks. They are worth the cost. What price can you put on how you feel and to help protect your liver? I have no regrets taking his herbs the past 4 years. They have helped me tremendously.

by debnevada, Jul 02, 2007 12:00AM
To: for me tx was easy
saw one gastro....she was awful.

saw second gastro - my VL was 192 and he said you're cured.

Saw third one. VL 4000.     started treating.  UND at week two. Still UND at week 14.

it was an easy decision for me because of the acute thing. best chance to treat is within 6 months of infection. my UND seems to bear it out.

we'll see.

every case is different.

deb

by debnevada, Jul 02, 2007 12:00AM
To: duh...i mean the DECISION to Treat
not treatment itself....sigh

by jboyhk, Jul 03, 2007 12:00AM
Look at post on 6/30 by sankk.

" have been recently done the Liver Biopsy, as suggested dr. Two years back I came to know ,i have the Hep-b positive. Then started the treatmnet with Gastroentrologist/Hepologist. As the SGPT/SGOT were in the normal range , no specific medicine was advised except herbal medicine.
Now last month during the followup check ,found the sgpt/sgot values elevated above the normal values,And the HBV Dna quantative 1406306.0 IU/ml."

Basically the herbs did nothing, in fact his hep reactivated. There are always 2 sides to a story whether its treatement drugs or herbs.

by Happyhungry, Jul 03, 2007 12:00AM
To: Upbeat
I was in a similar situation to you. Male 60, Geno 1b, starting viral load 13 million. Stage 2 fibrosis and level 2 inflamation.  Had been deferring TX for years 'cos the odds were so bad.  I had done whatever I could to reduce the danger - looked after myself, never drank nor smoked and did Chinese Medicine for a while  to hold down the liver enzymes and try to minimize the damage. But the disease still progressed, especially once I hit my late 50's.  My wake up call came following the death of three friends from hep-C related causes.  But still I resisted going on SOC, trying all the herbal formulas, liver cleansing routines etc. on the market. Can't say that anything actually made a difference and I spent a fortune.   Finally I got my biopsy done which was absoutely crucial to getting over what was, in fact, mental paralysis. Once I knew that my liver was seriosly inflamed and the scar tissue was spreading, my head came out of the sand.  I decided to go for a VX 950 trial and was lucky enough to get into a triple therapy arm that took VX-950 as well as peg and riba.  That cocktail stopped the virus cold.  I went undetectable in three weeks and my various hep symptoms (intense migraine headaches, rashes, joint pains mimicking arthritis, elevated AST and ALT levels) all dissapeared in weeks.  Most other folks on triple therapy also seem to get similar results. The triple therapy cocktail is hard to take and I had a lot of the side effects.  But it worked.  I decided to continue with SOC after the end of the 12 week trial to get some additional insurance. I am now in week 26/39 of TX, following the Drusano model. Hopefully I will get my SVR, although there are no guarrantees, of course.  The treatment has been hard for me, but faced with the alternative that was fast approaching - serious liver disease - the decision to go ahead was a no-brainer.

My advice to anyone hitting the mid 50's with geno 1 is to get the biopsy done. Whether and when you then go ahead with TX is a very tough call that depends on disease stage, your general condition and (in my opinion) availability of protease inhibitors. What has changed over the last 5 years is that we now know that VX-950 as part of a triple cocktail is very effective and its a fair best that the combo will find its way to the market by 2009 at the latest. At that point the success odds for geno 1's approach those of geno 2s and 3's :  ie 75% or better.  TX is not without its dangers, but what other option actually gets rid of your problem?
  

by Tallahassee, Jul 03, 2007 12:00AM
To: HappyHungry/ Upbeat
Good post, Happy!

I never understood "wait & watch" technique - to me it is the same as "hide & watch your decease to progress and more difficult to treat"...

Good luck on your decision, Upbeat!

All the best


by katerika, Jul 03, 2007 12:00AM
To: upbeat
I travel over 1 hr. to see my Dr. I say make the appointment and have a Biopsy done. I waited for 5 years between Biopsy's and went from stage 2 - 3/4. My March  Dr. visit basically said "it's time to treat" and here I am on shot 6. Hindsight is always 20/20. I had friends who said treat in 2002, before it does the damage. I waited, I probably have been walking around with this 35 years. It is your decision, Not to be too negative but, It is called the "silent killer."

by stacyb321, Jul 03, 2007 12:00AM
To: happyhungry
That was a very infomative post in a language I could understand - thank you!
Im 43  - diagnosed 2 months ago - go for ultrasound next week - if no damage - will wait for that "triple cocktail" hopefully by 2009.

by az hepper, Jul 03, 2007 12:00AM
To: upbeat
You have gotten some great responses, I would like to add, with the exeption of
I am 1A geno, and 56 years of age, your research and evoloution is very similar to mine. in fact I am tucson as well, and did a year  thru the "integrative clinic" at UMC.
In the end didn't do much to help my enzymes, which was the my goal to slow to inflammation and hopefully the fibrosis, didn't quite work out that way. I did a telephone consult with Dr. Zhang and was turned off when the first thing he asked was for my Master Card #. It was just a bit overwhelming the amount of herbs he was suggesting. I know some are very happy with that approach,
but I don't know if his statistics have ever been verified...

I have had two Biopsy