Diagnosed ADHD 8 yr old gifted kid w/major behavior issues

[FlyingMermaid]

I'm at my wits end with my daughter's behavior.  She is rude, disrespectful, sarcastic and talks back and tries to debate and negotiate everything.  When she doesn't get her way, she gets louder and more insisting.  She was diagnosed with ADHD last year and I did not put her on meds cause I'm not crazy about the idea.  Looking back I feel like I have been making excuses for her behavior, and certainly my exboyfriend would attest to that.  His famous line was that she was a spoiled brat who deserved a good spanking.  I don't spank her, but I'm not the perfect parent so when she gets in my face and is so defiant and disrespectful, I sometimes just breakdown and yell to her to just go to the room and stop talking to me or I try to the Magic 123 which stopped working a bit ago.  She just yells more or will continue being rude.  If I tell her to stop something, she'll continue doing it but in a different way and then say I'm not doing such and such and then claim that I was not being specific, when I could see in her face that she clearly knows what I'm saying.  I now live in fear of never meeting someone again who I can form a life with.  I can't imagine anyone who would be willing to put up with this.  I do because she's mine, but can admit that if she weren't, I'd get away, plain and simple.  She exhausts me.  I spend so much energy trying to be a good mother and uplifting her, focusing on the positive, having open communication with her, etc etc etc. When my ex ex and I had her, it was impossible to stay connected.  She was always so intense and required SO much attention, always refused to play with anything, refused to sleep...well, anyway, it hasn't changed much.  Then almost 3 yrs with my ex boyfriend and he couldn't deal with it either and it caused so many problems because I felt defensive of her and could not understand his point of view because of the aggrssive manner in which he'd complain about her behavior and in the end, we broke up.  Not that it was her fault, we had our own million other problems, but that was a big one. I don't know even know what my question is.  I'm just so frustrated and tired and I feel so damn alone.

[SueNYC]

You can do well in school and have ASHS.  I was always an honor student and almost finished a Phd with horrendous ADHD.  I also had an IQ of 145.  My son has terrible ADHD and he goes to a private school for ADHD - paid for by the state,  He generally aces exams and he has an IQ as high as mine.  But kjst like me, we both have severe executive dysfunction issues.  

My son's psychologist basically threw MAgic 133 in the garbage (he rightly said that he kids who are referred to him aren't exactly responsive to these methods).  I don't know what advice to offer - we started dealing with this when he was 5.  We had a full neuropsych done which was extremely helpful. He has also read alot oof the books on ADHD himself - which has been helpful.  Most of all, his school has been incredible - but we foughht tooth and nail for the stae to pay for it.

There is a great book by Dr. Greene called the "Explosive CHild" if yours is inflexible.  My doctors prefer Barkley but they admit this one is not ancedotal and has the clinical evidence to support his method.  

[Lainee]

Been there done that and 3years later I am still dealing with it my prayers are with you Believe me I am And have been where you are at. I wish i could help you but I can't even help myself. But there is a new therapy out there called energy therapy and it is guarenteed to work in just one to two visits. I will try it as soon as I can get the money together. God bless you.

[KStuff]

I would enlist a child therapist with extensive experience in treating defiant behaviors. From your examples, your daughter's behavior sounds, at times, intentional.  It's interesting that she was especially difficult when you were spending time with your boyfriend.  To me, that signals an issue that may not be necessarily related to ADHD, but rather may be an indirect expression of anger or resentment toward those that compete for your attention. This issue can be worked on with a child therapist, where your daughter can express her feelings freely. A therapist can also give you tips on how to improve your relationship with your daughter.  Once these issues are dealt with and your daughter feels more secure in her relationship with you, a boyfriend should be a welcomed addition to your family life. Provided that he loves and respects you both.

Best Wishes,
Kelly
Child & Family Psychotherapsit :)

[fluid]

If she is doing well in school I doubt that it is ADHD. I just read a book on Emotional Release Therapy by Walter Weston (he has a website, as well) which, to me, is pretty bazaar, but worth noting because of all of the doccumented healings. It's thesis is that our emotions - hurts, fears, dissapointments, etc. are stored in our cells (medical science has a name for this - and organ transplant recipients often report that they have taken on the emotions of the donor - I think its referred to as "cellular memory", so there may be something to this)  There are several cases of children with behavior issues being healed once these negative emotions have been released in the manner described in the book. According to the book, these emotions cannot be removed by just thinking them out, it has to go deeper. Food for thought, for even quantum physics states that not only our bodies, but the entire objective universe and all that we experience is the objective state of our subjective thought and emotions.

[FlyingMermaid]

Thank you everyone for your words of wisdom.  To answer the last post by Sandman, yes, she is very intelligent and not the quiet kid in the class.  She's doing excellent in school, reads at some crazy advanced level, is in the gifted program, etc etc.  But always has issues when it comes to accepting responsibility, talking out of turn, listening to directions, etc.  Last year's teacher was excellent, very in tune with her, very open to helping out in any way possible and was present at the meetings I had with the director and the advisory group when my daughter was being diagnosed.  She even tried certain recommendations of mine and the school's therapist in class that worked in everyone's favor.  Her current teacher however is a different story.  At the risk of sounding inmature and judgemental, I will say she *****, and seems like she doesn't give a rat's a**.  She seems to worry more about whether to flip someone's card to a particular color (behaviorial b.s. system) than working with any individual kid.  

She has this system...yellow is great, green is good, then blue, then grey then white being the worst.  She does get yellow and green a lot so when she doesn't, I always ask what was the decision based on.  It's frustrating because I can tell from how my daughter explains it to me, that a lot of it is ADHD based (not all of it, granted).  She'll tell me "I thought we were supposed to do x but it was y but I never heard her say that or I thought she said this so she flipped my card cause I did it wrong" or "I was helping so and so because he/she didn't know what to do and she flipped my card cause I was talking" or "so and so was bugging me so I told him to stop and she flipped both our cards".  She's very honest.  Many times she'll flat out say she was talking back or she was talking away with a friend.  I'll ask if she tried to explain or talk to the teacher and she said "she doesn't want to hear it and will continue flipping my card to the next color if I talk."  The teacher is well aware of my kid's diagnosis and we've communicated to no avail.  She's got only one week left!  

I also have an appt set up with a behaviorial therapist coming up in July (1st available) who hopefully can offer some support. Upon reading the post on Love and Logic I ordered the "kit", and I will also check out Lynn Clark's book.  I like the list you included.  

Her temper and insistence on getting what she wants is really becoming a problem.  Not to mention her newfound fear of something happening to me.  The few times that she i with her other parent, she'll call to check on me a gazillion times, no matter how much we comfort her.  she's so smart, she'll say "but you don't KNOW FOR SURE that nothing will happen to you!"  which of course is true, but I'm trying to teach her to be in the moment, to not think negative thoughts, etc.  Difficult.  She had another freak out the other night cause I wouldn't let her sleep in my bed.  It was calm, firm and loving but after 40 minutes of her insisting and crying and saying inappropriate things, I just ended up crying from frustration.  I hate that seems me lose it but I just didn't know what else to do.  I was sooooo frustrated.  
Thanks again gang.  

  

[justTess]

Have you read the book Love and Logic?  It's pretty good at teaching parents how to direct desired behaviour (IMO).

I have to draw the bottom line for my ADHD child and use a lot of repetition.  He was extremely stubborn when he was younger and he would choose to have his room completely empty from consequences before he realized that he had to sleep in his room too. (This was before he was diagnosed with ADHD, I thought he was just stubborn in nature).

I learned ADHD children have very impulsive behaviour that they do not tend to think about the long term consequernces or at least that does not seem to motivate them to behave a particular way.  Kinda like keeping a finicky cat on a leash for the first time.

Positive reinforcement works wonders for my son than consequence.  I take up his game controllers and then tell him what he has to do in order to get them back.  As for whining, try very hard to ignore it.  Leave the room or the house if it elevates.  Tell her very calmly to use her talking voice because you can't understand what she's trying to say.  (Pretend you don't get it).  When she finally uses her normal voice, then talk to her.  If you respond the the whinney.... you're putting more fuel on the fire.

Hope things get better.

[fluid]

...also please see my post on Theanine from green tea June 5

[fluid]

I was afraid to put my child on Ritalin, and did not. I wish I had known about the six different types of ADHD years ago. Check out, online, the website for DR. Daniel Amen - he lists the six types and also reccommends meds and alternative treatments for each type. Your child sounds like the third type. Stimulants alone can make it worse. He reccommends Effexor, which concerns me because it is highly addictive. He also reccomends as an alternative, the amino acid tyrosine in combination with 5htp for that type.  I wish I had known about this 20 years ago. It might have helped my child. Therapy alone will not.

Also, get her checked for cerebral allergies - milk and wheat in particular do have an effect on the behavior of some children. Also look into ERT - I don't know much about it - Emotional Release Therapy. This is something I am looking into. Do something, medication as a last resort. It will get worse if you don't, you've come to the right place and asked for help. God bless.