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Playing with poop
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Playing with poop

My daughter is 8 years old. She's adopted, but I've had her since 2 years of age.  She has always had behaviour problems, and now takes medication for ADD.  She does strange things all of the time, and I'm at my witts end.  Her latest thing is she plays with her poop, or does something with it, and then wipes the excess on her bed.  Her biological mother is bi-polar, her biological father has been diagnosed with schizophrenia, bi-polar, and manic depressive.  Are these things that she could inherit.  She also struggles in school, she has a hard time reading because she can't remember words.  She is very smart, but does very strange things. She's constantly going into the bathroom and staying, even at school.  She pours the soap out of the bottles and refills them with water. She hides candy and eats it in her bed, basically she puts anything in her mouth she can. Help me if you can, I'm going crazy. I have 5 other children, boys, 4 of whom are adopted, and none do these kinds of things.  Her behaviour is so off the wall, we can't leave her with anyone.
thanks.
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re: my daughter playing with poop

She takes Dexedrine, 10mg. once a day and has been on it for about 15 months.
I have another child who takes the same and it has definitely helped him.
I just don't know what to do.
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Avatar_f_tn
I read this passage and just cried. I am a mother of 4 boys,3 my own and 1 my step-son. My oldest,9, is going through the same thing right now. Pooping in the tub and gettin it out with his hands. He just pooped in his bed for the first time tonight and wiped it on the bed and walls. He has been stealing candy and eating and drinking in his room. I just was on edge tonight and have been so tired I started looking this up. He recently was kicked out of school for taking a boxcutter to school and threatened some kids that had been bothering him. He has been diagnosed with adhd and I had him on medicine 2 different kinds at different times and they didnt seem to work so he has been of of them for about 1 yr. but he didnt even act anything like this before. He is not one of these bad kids, I dont understand why all this is going on.We just started counseling but its just the begining. I feel like I amm going to lose it before we get anywhere.He is also the only one that does these things out of everyone and it has been mainly in the last 9 months or so.And the lying as been outragious, along with repetitive behavior.I am just wondering if you have had any luck since you posted this? Please let me know. Im desperate to find out what other options are out there.Finding this article is a blessing. Everything I have read tonight has been 2 yrs and under and I feel so relieve that I am not in this alone,though I hate you are feeling what I do.Please let me know anything.
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Avatar_n_tn
I have a 10year old boy.  I have just find out he is playing with his poop at school.  He is ADHD and on meds.  I adopted him.  I don't know much about his parents.  How do you deal with this.  With this and all of his different obsessions, they are always changing.  He has a one track mind and he has no friends.  I am at my wits end!!!
Can anyone give me any suggestions??
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Avatar_n_tn
Playing with poop is not typically something that results from ADHD.  It is often seen in Reactive Attachment Disorder with children.  RAD is often seen in adopted children, where the initial attachment with the biological mother has been disrupted, even if the child was very young or an infant when adopted.  It is something that can be easily addressed in therapy, but cannot be eliminated through meds, since it's a response to stressors not genetics.

kstuff, psychotherapist
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I cannot believe other parents are dealing with this odd behavior as well!  My son is 12 and has been playing with poop secretly for years, at least 8 now.  It used to involve diapers (or pull ups) and them being hidden where we would have to search to find the smell.  Now, we don't know what he's doing, but we found poop on towels, down the sink drain (which we found because the sink wouldn't drain after he'd been in the bathroom.)  He has been diagnosed with ADHD and Asperger's Syndrome and has been in therapy for roughly 9 months, but I'm not seeing a change in his "playing" behaviors.  To the above parent, my son also plays in soap, mixing up concoctions...  things disappear from the bathroom closet and either reappear in odd spots or empty bottles are found (like my bath salts.)  My son does have Sensory Integration Disorder also, and we've wondered if this stems from SID or if there is something else going on.  He is the oldest of 5 kids, none adopted, and nothing in his childhood to cause attachment issues.  If anyone has any advice, I'd love to receive it!
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I work with kids who have been diagnosed with ADD, autism and behavioral problems, so I am used to dealing with 3 year olds playing with their poop. My understanding is that it is a sensory thing, but now my daughter who is six just started doing the same. It all started when she got the stomach flu and she spends the whole day with the runs. Since then my husband and I have found poop smeared all around the toilet, next to the sink and even in her bedroom all. She kept saying that the poop just comes out, and I have been believing her since I have also found the poop in the shower after she has gotten out. Today, I went to put her in bed and the smell in her room was horrible. I found poop in her carpet and she smeared it with one of her toys. I now know that she has really been playing with it, and the thing is that she doesn’t seem to understand that one just don’t do that. In school she is very fidgety. The teachers says that she is very smart and she does get good grades, but that she cannot stay focus for long and that she cannot stay in her sit. She goes to counseling in school, and I have notice some improvement in her self esteem, but now this. Today she was also un-invited to a Christmas party in the boys and girls club because she refuses to listen to the teacher, and this is just started in the last two weeks. Like a lot of your kids, she does strange things, like emptying the shampoo bottles that were completely full, like taking things and hiding them, she gets obsessed with candy if it is around it. Sometimes she does things and when I ask her why she did it, she says that her brain is going crazy. The thing is that she has been saying this since the time she could talk. She does not sleep well at nigh, and she also has a lot of nightmares. I have taken her to her doctor and run all kinds of test, and it is not biological, but they have not diagnosed her with any cognitive or behavioral problems. I really don’t know what else to do. She is the middle child and I try my best to spend quality time with her, and talk to her, but she always ends up doing something that just upsets me. I really don’t know what else to do. I also think that she might be playing with her poop at school, but I have no way of proving her. I feel like I have no where to turn to, and my husband just says that she just different.
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Avatar_m_tn
   ADHD kids (at least while they are young) have not filters.  If something occurs to them, they act on it - before they have a chance to think about it.  Many times, since it happens so fast, they don't even realize they have done anything.  Of course, after years of being blamed for things they haven't realized they have done - defensive measures start kicking in.  
  You say you have taken her to her doctor.  What specialty is your doctor.  A MD may not be the best one to make those decisions.  If you are concerned I would find somebody who specializes in ADHD and see them.
  Just an idea on the poop.  It is possible that  she is not playing with it.  If it comes out because she has been too distracted to attend to pooping (or for any other reason) - well what do you do once it is there?  If you know it shouldn't be there you try and hide it.  Or maybe try to clean it up (but not very expertly).  6 year olds are not experts at this type of thing.  You might try asking her to tell you when it happens so you can help her clean it up.  Of course, maybe she is playing with it - but there are other possibilities.
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Avatar_f_tn
That is very good advice from Sandman.

The most important thing is to remain 'neutral' ie, matter of fact in  your reaction.  Just give a small natural consequence.  Like get them to help you clean it up.

Often the behaviour that gets the big reaction is the one they will pursue.

I know it is outrageous and would drive you completely nuts.  But try to hold in that reaction.

Do not talk to other adults about it if there is any possibility they could hear.

At a nice time when you are sitting down together just explain to them carefully about the germs and possibility of illness.

It is a phase and if handled carefully they will grow out of it.  But it is very easy to reinforce negative behaviour by reacting to it.  If you pay a lot of attention to it, it will get worse.

Give lots of praise and attention (I know you do anyway) at good times.

Another point:
My father has Chronic schizophrenia, none of his four children have it, none of his 10 grandchildren have it.  We are doing fine.  Anyway it comes up every few generations in all families.  It is not a 'diagnonses'  if your parents have it.  Take it one day at a time.
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Developmental disorders are odd things. They are very difficult to be diagnosed. especially things like ADHD and ADD. A lot of emotional issues abandament issues manifests the behaviour problems in Children. Unsound family environment is an unhealthy environment. Just because parents are unsound of mind does not necessarily mean that the child is prone to mental illness. therefore, behaviour patterns and issues may just result from experiences children have had. I may not mean that they actually have and development disorder. It might be difficult for an inexperience experts to differntial between the two.
You might want to check where the behaviour pattern of the child is coming from before drawing conclussion and act on them.

Aashwasan
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Thank you so much for the advice. I have taken the attitude of taking deep breaths when I find that my daughter has smeared her poop some where in her room. Last time I found that she smeared it all over her chair in her room and I lost it. I saw how afraid she got and I just told her that I was sorry for yelling but that what she was doing was really upsetting, especially when I cannot figure out why she is doing it. She had this look that she just does not understand why she, herself was doing it. I just gave her paper towels and disinfectant and made her clean it up. The next time she did it, she was not even aware when she did it and that she still has poop in her underwear. She kept asking me what smelled, and I could not figure out what she was talking about. When she finally went to the bathroom I noticed that she took very long, so I went to check up on her. She had poop in her underwear and she was trying to clean herself up. Since I was very sure that she must have done something with it in her room, I went to check. I found dried poop in the closet wall. When I asked her when she had done that, she did not have an answer, she could not remember. I’m starting to really think that she has ADHD or some kind of sleeping problem, since she does not sleep well at night and when she looks at me I can tell that her thoughts are just way ahead of what I am telling her. She is a very smart child, which is the reason why it bothers me so much that this is taking place. I really want to help her, but I don’t know where to find the help any longer. All I do is research. I am going to talk to her school counselor and see if she has any referrals for me.
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There is hope.

My son is 14. He stopped playing with/smearing feces a couple of years back, and inappropriate urination seems to have stopped in the past few months as well.

He still steals, though not as often. He often often often lies (though sometimes what appears as a lie to others is actually his inability to remember or his misperception of events). He no longer hoards food.

His many-times-a-day passive-aggressive coping mechanisms have mostly been replaced by intense tantrums which are presently happening only every few months.

It's interesting and pleasurable to watch my son growing in actual happiness and developing an understanding of responsibility and desire to behave appropriately. It sure has been, and continues to be, a long and labour-intensive journey.

My son's diagnoses include attachment disorder, adhd, pdd-nos (autism specturm), developmental coordination disorder, etc., etc., etc.

Christine
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Thank you sooo much for sharing your experiance, and to everyone else as well. My oldest son, who is 17 now, used to smear poo when he was still in diapers but grew out of it when he stopped using them. By junior high he had been diagnosed with ADHD and behaviourial problems stemming from his relationship with his father. I was warned then that one or more of our other children may have some behaviourial prblem or mental illness as it runs strong on their father's side. My daughter has had issues over the past years but a lot of them stemmed from environment(relationship with her father and his wife). Her behaviour over the past few months indicates that she may also have ADHD. Today I found that she had taken a piece of toilet paper, pooped on it and smeared it on the underside of the toilet seat. Needless to say I could have cried! I did a search and came up with this post thread, and the tears have started flowing. The lying, the stealing...has all been a part of my life with her. Sadly her father's wife phones me up and attacks me for her outbursts which needless to say does not make the situation any easier. Much *** it hurts to see other families going through this it feels good to know that I am not alone.
WinnipegConcertina I would appreciate hearing more of your experiences and where you got help(I'm in Winnipeg as well).

Thank you all. I always find it's much easier to deal with a situation when I know what it is I'm dealing with.
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I have read all the comments on here and love the advise my step son is 6 mom has been out of the picture for awhile now and he is ok with that, he has been doing the same things playing in his poop smearing everywhere in the bathroom when i ask him why he does this he just says because he was mad when i ask why he is mad he doesnt know...he has never been diagnosed with anything, he also does the whole soap thing pooring bran new bottles out and filling them with water and then blames it on his brother who is one i have tried making him clean it up using his allowence to pay for new soap but nothing seems to work he lies like crazy you cant believe anything he says any advice nothing seems to work
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Hello, I'm new here so I would like to say hi to everyone.. I read  "my daughter playing with poop" and some of the others and I just want to share with you that my daughter who is now 19 would get angry with me for putting her to bed and poop and take off her diaper and quit literally play finger paint with it.. she is very blonde and she had a white crip with pretty whitish plush toys and they all turned brown .. not just once either.. My other daughter who is 18 now would hide food in places where it would certainly rott.. She would also take what ever she could find and mix it all together and tell her sister it was cookies!.. I'm not sure why your child would go to the bathroom and stay there but maybe she is looking at herself in the mirror my kids did that.. they would look and talk and make faces in the bathroom.. and pooring soap out is something I have never experienced so I can't comment on that.. hiding candy was a big one for mine.  Putting things in her mouth at that age may be a little diffrent I would think she would be over that by now, but in all honesty I did it.. I even tasted apple and strawberry shampoo cuz it smelled good.. and if it had pretty collors on it or if it was just plain intresting I would give it a try like soap in the shape of flowers.. Eventually my children grew up and they are both very good girls.. my oldest is going to a university and my 18 year old is already a workaholic not that that's good but she works because she likes her money.. I guess she's just greedy! lol.. Now for myself, I am bipolar and I turned out to be a great mother and did well where ever I worked I could climb to the top until my third child the  postpartum and bipolar got me so I am now on disability otherwise I had a productive and happy life.. My son who is 9 did alot of different things and my youngest who is 2 is going to be on Broadway!!.. lol.. I am interested in what els your child does and I can let u know if mine did that or not.. After alot of worry and when the years went buy they turned out pretty good members of society if  you ask me.. Good luck with your baby and stay in touch with us..

Cindy
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Do you want to get together sometime?  I'm actually living out in Steinbach right now, but I'm in Winnipeg occasionally on weekends.

My biggest help came from my son's first mental health worker, Duncan Smith, and much much much reading and seeking out information on my part. His present mental health worker as well as folks who are part of my son's support team through Children's Special Services have all been great supports.

I've started a blog, though there isn't much there right now other than a bit of my son's original history. Eventually, I'll get into the present day-to-day. If interested, feel free to have a read at http://www.*******************.********com
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Sorry, I hadn't read the user terms closely enough and hadn't realized we couldn't post links. If you're interested in my blog, just email and I'll send you the link
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Most of these children, in my experience, fall into the following two categories:  They were adopted, or they have either one or both parents who are / were mentally ill.  I disagree with the psychologist who said these problems (like feces play, assaulting other children -- including sexual assault -- plus property destruction, fire-setting and so forth) can be helped.  I think that children who are so mentally ill that they do these things as children and teenagers are going to grow up to be mentally ill adults.  I'm sorry to be so pessimistic, but I speak from sad experience.  It is too bad that they closed the mental institutions.  It was a big mistake since most of the adult mentally ill now end up in jail.  A medical treatment facility would be much, much better.  These people need to be diagnosed and institutionalized BEFORE they harm someone else.
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If my son had been institutionalized, he wouldn't be where he is today. I adopted him when he was 2 years old. At that time and over the following years, he displayed many many of what would be categorized as "disturbing behaviours"

His first psychiatrist told me something to the effect of, "Good luck. There's really nothing we can do for him."

My son is now 14 years old. He is having academic successes at school, has done volunteer work for 3 organizations, does chores at home, has performed with a music group on various occasions, loves cooking and is able to independently cook a myriad of items and does a fantastic job of it, loves grocery shopping and often checks/compares nutritional content, has run school marathons, does his own laundry, etc., etc., etc.

My son has a good, healthy quality of life and is a contributing member of our family and a contributing member of society. It has taken very very much individualized work and a solid support team for my son to be where he's at today. Institutions just are not able to provide that level of support.
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I have a 7.5 year old step daughter. She has been living with her father and I full time since October of 2007 after we fought years for her. I have been in her life since before she was born. Finally we won because her mothers boyfriend abused her and her older sister and the mother did nothing about it to protect them even stays with this guy after the courts found out he was a pedo. My daughter suffers from frequent UTI's and has had a bad kidney because of them. She has major bedwetting problem as well, though so did her mother and father. Her behaviour has gotten worse and worse. In school and everywhere else, everyone reports that she very well behaved and one of their best kids. At home, she plays with her poop, smearing it anywhere, steals things (even from school and daycamp and giant tiger) eats and drinks things she is not allowed to or that belongs to her brother (now one year old) she does not think before she does something (pouring hot water on another kid during water fight, hanging out an open window and climbing into the attic), she is constantly climbing her dressers adn such, drawing on the walls, hiding anything she gets her hands on, popping pills she sees when out with the daycamp, pooping in a bag in her room, pooping in socks and wiping her bum with socks then throwing them out the bedroom window into our neighbors yard, will run out into the road or parking lot, and has even tried to climb into the playpen to play with the baby!! I am at my wits end with her, as is my husband. We have repeatedly asked for help and all we get from anyone is them calling childrens services for things/stories our daughter has told them about what we have done. They never ask her why we've done something, like kept her in her room (grounding). She says all kinds of things for attention and then they call child services. We feel as though we can't even consequence her or anything for things she does.  Everyone says she does not have ADD/ADHD though! She's VERY SMART in school and is a very good reader. She's always polite to people, other than with me most times. She never apologises for things she does either, especailly with me. She spit food in my face and my sons face last week! She has still not apologised for it either. We don't believe in forcing her to say shes sorry because then she won't mean it. She has been told she should when she does something or says something wrong many times. Our doctor has put a referral in to the hospital's mental health and anxiety unit because her play therapist has told us that she definitely is a very anxious child, and we know she's dealing with loss and grief. She had to say a final goodbye her her birth mother in february, court ordered and she is supposed to see her three sisters whom were adopted but we've not gotten any replies back from the adoptive parents in 8 months. The last I heard from them in April when I invited them to her birthday. They gave me excuses and didn't come or try and get together. Her three sisters all have different fathers. The youngest is the boyfriends. Can anyone suggest what we can do when she does this pooping thing? And how we can get her the help she obviously needs??
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Oh and I gforgot to say she also poops and pees in the floor vent in her bedroom, that constantly smells dispite us having her clean it all the time.
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my son has always been difficult, he currently is being evaluated for A.d.d and o.d.d  . hes gets in trouble at school alot for  talking back, hitting, not being were hes supposed to be, and recently he was suspended for throwing his poop around the bathroom at school. I am soo concerned for him and his odd behaivors, and i know the school probably looking at me like im a bad mom, throwing poop around is this a reason to call cps on me? what do i do this is pretty emberrasing, and i just cant understand why he would do such a thing. clueless and scared and advice or opnions.
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My son is 10 and he never used to play with his poop until about 3 1/2 years ago now also 5 years ago he was diagnosed with adhd,odd,a touch of aspbergers and a touch of ocd and bipolar, 3 1/2 years ago he found matches while outside playing and I did not find them until it was too late and now he wets the bed frequently and poops in his pants and plays with his poop he wipes it on everything trying to hide it and its so hard to make sure I have checked everything he constantly gets in trouble in school and therapy and meds haven't done much of anything can't find anything that works I'm at my end I also have a 12 yr old daughter that is diagnosed adhd bipolar etc she's very mouthy aggressive steals and doesn't listen I just don't know what to do anymore and then I have a 16 year old daughter who is embarrassed to have friends over and tired of helping I am a single mom I JUST WANT TO SCREAM FOR HELP SOMETIMES so I am right there with all of you
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Avatar_m_tn
   Well, I doubt that he is playing with his poop.  Its pretty common for kids with ADHD to forget to go, until its too late - and then they go, and try to hide it.
   You say meds haven't helped much. What meds have you tried and what kind of a doctor is prescribing the meds.
   A very good book that will help you I think with at least some of these problems, is "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.
    And ya, you do have a load.  I feel for you.
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It's good to know my daughter is not the only one! She has not been diagnosed witg anything but is suspected to have adhd and/or attachment disorder. She also has traits of aspergers but they say she can't be diagnosed because it is not obvious enough. She stayed at my mum's a couple of nights ago, and after she came home my mum noticed a smell in the bathroom. She found poo pushed right down the back of the radiator. My daughter says she did it because she is scared of the flush. It's not the first time she has hidden poo. She usually cries and says she doesn't know why she does it. I'm so scared that people will think she is disgusting. She already has trouble making friends at school as the other kids are wary of her unpredictable and sometimes violent behaviour. Her dad refuses to believe that there is anything wrong with her. I'm starting to feel like we will never get to the bottom of this problem. I am mostly calm but inside i am in despair
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Avatar_m_tn
    Really need some more info.  How old is she and what grade is she in?  Who suspects she has "adhd and/or attachment disorder."    When you say she has attachment disorder - does that mean you are divorced and she splits time between you and her dad?  If so how much does he get to see her a week?
    And yes, there is a link between bathroom issues and ADHD, but the questions above are important to answer.
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My 8 year old son was just suspended today for wiping poop on things in the library at school. It happened at home as well. He says he doesn't know why he does it. He was just diagnosed with mild ADHD and anxiety. Not on meds or therapy yet but working on it. I don't know what to do about the poop thing. He seems to have stopped at home but now he's doing it at school. Im all out of ideas.
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Avatar_m_tn
   Probably several things going on here.  There is a significant link between ADHD and "wetting" incidences.  So I would assume the same thing could be true for "poop" problems.
   Many times kids having "poop" problems at school are having those problems due to things happening in the bathrooms or because of having troubles getting to the bathrooms.   So I would ask him if there he has had any problems in using the bathrooms lately.
   As to why smearing it.  Kind of weird.  Where was the toilet he used? Was it his poop in the first place?  Where did he get it? What did he use to smear it?   I could go on.  It would have been nice if the school had done some problem solving instead of just suspending him.  Point is there are many reasons why he did this.  If you want to treat it - you have to figure out why.
    It might be a good idea for you to get the book, ""The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.   It will be very helpful for you and him.  But it also give good information about 504 plans and IEP's which will help the school help him.  
    By the way, does the school know of his diagnosis?  As a retired elementary school principal - knowing a child has ADHD certainly affected how I dealt with his discipline.
   Hope this helps.  Please post if you have other questions.
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i have a daughter of my own...I adopted my son and his 6 right now....For the pass 2 days he poop himself and then wipe in the face towel,bathroom sink....then he poop at school and he draw his poop thru the mirror at the bathroom at school...he has ADHD,IMPULSIVE,FETAL ALCOHOL SYNDROME(FAS)....his taking meds for the ADHD....but there is no medication on the FAS....he also steal candy at the store twice...Wet himself while his playing or watch TV....as this point im out of option and dont know what to do anymore....Nobody teach him how to lie,but he lie to much.
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Avatar_m_tn
    yep, kids with ADHD do tend to lie.  Because they don't think before they act - they get in trouble a lot.  So they lie to avoid the trouble.  Its very common.
   Poop wise - take a look at when it is happening!  It may be his meds are wearing off and he needs an extended release med.  Or as I said in the last post - it may be the school is not doing enough to help him.   At home, he may have trouble using the toilet paper (?)  try getting the moist wipes.  They are bigger and easier to use.
   And as I suggested in the last post, " It might be a good idea for you to get the book, ""The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.   It will be very helpful for you and him.  But it also give good information about 504 plans and IEP's which will help the school help him.  "
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I am so glad to have found this group....does anyone go through what I go through....my son is 14 and relies on laxatives to make his bowels move.....if I do not keep him cleaned out He constantly is pooping in his clothes...I cannot keep underwear bought for him fast enough and he will also steal my daughters underwear and poop in them...hides the underwear in his room and we have to find them to keep the house from smelling...I found 10 of my bath towels in his closet with poop all over them !!! Is this Encopresis ? Or something else !!!!!
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Avatar_m_tn
   Does your son have ADHD (or any other problem)?
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Avatar_n_tn
I'm an intensive in home therapist and KNOW how frustrating this is....some suggestions I use is A. STOP making a big deal out of it, part of it is probably the attention they get out of it, particularly if there are other siblings. B. Give them playdough to play with IF they use the toilet correctly and only on table or linoleum floors. Not only when they use it correctly but until you find poo in wrong places...you will find cheap sets of playdough at walmart and you can even help them make different things.C.Extra praise always helps (at appropriate times).

Actually, do talk to your counselors about intensive in home--you may be amazed at some of the things they help you and your child with. Just remember, they are helping you and your child-they can't just "fix it" for you, you have to help....

ALWAYS remember that having a child with behavior problems does NOT mean you are a bad parent-it just means you need more tools to have to deal with new problems and different personalities.
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Avatar_m_tn
   Welcome to the forum!  Great suggestions.  Please feel free to also check out the child behavior forum too - we get a lot of problems like this over there.
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My Son will be 9 in November.  He is a lovely boy, friendly, usually happy & likes to get involved with everything.  Since a young age he has always got over excited very easily, especially if people came to our house.  His eyes would kind of 'go aorund' when he was like this. He has always been a terrible fidget and he has also always 'humped'.   He does it lying on his front and wasn't embarrassed who saw, he doesn't do it so much now, but I know he still sometimes does it when he is tired.  He learned to talk quite early and expresses himself really well, he is a whole level above his age group at school in all subjects although his writing is messy.  He is constantly in trouble for being disruptive in school.  They say he isn't violent, but noisy, makes silly noises at times and needs constant supervision to complete his work.  He has little co-ordination and his behaviour is at it's worst in P.E. lessons.  I know what they mean, once his mind starts to wander it is very difficult to get him back on track.  He loves Nerf guns, but even when he hasn't got them, he is constantly acting out imaginary scenarios, rolling around the floor & shooting etc.  Personally I'm wasn't too worried about it, but his teacher says he pretends to shoot the other children and himself and she thinks it's disturbing.  Most recently (and most upsetting of all) in about the last 6 weeks, he has started playing with his poo.  At first I thought maybe he was constipated and just being an inquisitive child, but it has continued.  He doesn't seem to notice the smell or worry about it being on his clothes and although we have explained about germs and cleanliness it doesn't seem to bother him.  He gets it on his hands and wipes it in his clothes, on the walls, on his bedding etc.  We searched for the smell the other day and he had been wiping it all over his pillow, inside his pillow case and wasn't worried at night about resting his head and sleeping on it!  He does lie, even when the answer is obvious.  We have spoken with our GP a few times, but because he speaks so well, makes eye contact and is doing well academically, they say there is nothing wrong.  The school would like him observed, but say they have asked and can't get help unless his doctor is onside.  I love him to bits and I'm worried about his behaviour & what it means for his future.  His Dad & I are happily married, there have never been any break ups or even any major rows to upset him and he is our eldest of three children.
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I didn't read all the comments so if I am saying something someone else has already said, I appologize.  Please see the following web site for more information.  www(dot)wrongplanet(dot)net.    It is a website dedicated to Autistic Spectrum Disorder, Asperger's Syndrome, and Autism in general.  You may find your answers there.
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   Hi, I am sorry I somehow missed your post.  I guess I thought you were responding to the earlier posts.  Hopefully, you still are checking out this site.
   First, he does have many of the symptoms of ADHD- check out symptoms here - http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/what/WWK1
   And if he does have ADHD, it is possible that he gets so involved in doing something that he doesn't get to the bathroom in time.  That is somewhat common.  The playing with it is kind of unusual.  But, if he does have an accident and then gets it on his hands - he will probably wipe it on the first thing he is close to and then get back to what he is doing.
   I really need more info about when and where you think this is going on.  But a quick suggestion is to get something like Cottonelle Flushable Moist Wipes Pop Up  and put a box in his room.  It won't stop the accidents but will make it more easy to deal with hopefully.  If you can get back to me on the when and where - I may be able to help.  We do see a lot of this problem over on the child behavior forum.
   In regards to his other problems.  It doesn't sound like the Autistic spectrum, but its always worth checking out the site.  If after reading, the site I recommended - it rings a few bells, get back to me.  I will try and answer your post much sooner.  Of course, if the Olympics would end, things would happen even faster.  I'm getting tired of staying up till midnight every night to watch it :)
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HI I'm a single mother that has a 4 year old son and after reading everybody post I just feel a little better. It is 4:40am and m son is stil up. So far he has had 3 baths because he is playing with his poop and trying to eat it. He got withdrawn from his schol for pulling kids hair, biting, scratching. Im trying to potty train but it is taking longer than I can take. He is Autistic, Developmental delayed and he has Seizures. I feel like I'm loosing my mind. I really don't know what to do. He also humps as I read somebody else statement. I'm glad I came across this to see I'm not the only one that's having problems.  
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   No, you certainly are not the only one having these problems, but that sure doesn't make it any easier on you.   There are a lot more posts on the same subject over on the child development forum found here -   http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Child-Behavior/show/64
    Are you getting any help for this?   In the US, the age 3 to 5 early intervention preschool program through your local public school can also evaluate your child.   He then could attend preschool there if he qualifies and then receive services as needed.  
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Hi everyone! I have always thought i have been the only one to notice odd behaviors in children like this. I recently had an internship at an elementary school in a class with disabled children in it. There was a young boy in there who was autistic and he did the same thing. We literally had to keep eyes on him the whole time.He would smear poop everywhere in the bathroom as well as the other children mentioned in these posts.He did the same stuff with the soap too. I was the one who found out he did this with his poop. he stored it in his hand one day and he was laughing about something and I said what do you have and he held up his hand and i said show me and he had poop in his little hand, i started to gag because i knew what it was,and the smell-HORRID. I fekt really bad because then after that they had meetings with the parents and asked me so many questions, but i knew it had to be done! so im guessing that these children have some sort of dissability?? to the above: do your children have dissabilities because my cousin does the same with his poop,but they think its just curiosity?please help
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   really good question.   I would think that in most cases its either a physical or emotional/mental problem.   And there are no easy answers - at least till you figure out whats causing the problem.
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Hi i am 13 and adhd my name is Rebekah... About the box cutter incident... I know it has nothing to do with what he did but i had kids bothering me 2 years ago ... Im also a
Depression sufferer ... I brought a steak knife to school to threaten kids with it but not to hurt them... But to kill myself in front of them if they didnt stop messing with me... I felt so terrible when i read that part of you comment that i needed to share this... Luckily i was caught before the period i was going to go that in... I was sent to a psyc hospital for cutting but when that type of thing happens that he goes to that extreme do show him any anger ... Its a time where he needs the most love and support... If you go to YouTube and look up rebekah160838... Its my profile youll see some of my vids and comments ... I hope you read them to know a little bit of where im coming from... Thanks for reading this
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Thats not right ... U love a child wether or not they have issues ... U dont send them back cause they arent normal
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thx very much. Yes I'm getting the help that he needs. They did let him in school.
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Wow.  I have never seen this before and my daughter is the exact same!!!  Plays with poop secretly.  Always has I think it's an anxiety thing that calms her or something??  She also lies and empty a the soap and shampoo bottles and fills them with water.  She says its her infant sister that does it or denies that it was done.  Recently she's began locking the bathroom door like its an accident and squirts handfuls of toothpaste onto her arms and hands.  I've caught her once but I have found it places too.  She's not adopted.  She's first born and my little one is more responsive then she is at her age.  They thought she was autistic at the time and she's been tested and she's not.  She's bright and we homeschool.  She's starting school Monday and I pray she doesn't start her bad behaviors at school.  :(
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     Some times kids who are used to getting all of mom's attention will find other ways to get mom's attention when a new brother or sister comes along.  So some of this could be attention getting.  
   I would make sure that she gets an immediate short timeout when ever something like this happens.  Hopefully at school, she will also get very constant behavioral reinforcement if she is breaking school rules.  And then again she may have no problem at all.  Bright kids can quickly figure out what works and what doesn't.
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.I am so glad to have found this group....does anyone go through what I go through....my son is 14 and relies on laxatives to make his bowels move.....if I do not keep him cleaned out He constantly is pooping in his clothes...I cannot keep underwear bought for him fast enough and he will also steal my daughters underwear and poop in them...hides the underwear in his room and we have to find them to keep the house from smelling...I found 10 of my bath towels in his closet with poop all over them !!! Is this Encopresis ? Or something else !!!!! .

I have an 18 yr old that has a problem with hi bowel movements as well. He was diagnosed when he was about 9ish. I don't remember what it was called though. What the doctor said was that he had a very hard ball of poop stuck up in the collin and that there was poop seeping around it into his underwear. This in turn would stretch the collin and end up with huge bowel movements that would plug the toilet. He wouldn't feel it seeping out either. The doctor said to give him a laxative (Myralax) twice a day and have him sit on the toilet for a half an hour every other hour for a couple weeks. Then just give him the Myralax every day and have him go to the bathroom often every day. After a year or two of doing that, the collin should be back to a normal size and will just need to have maintenance dosage of fiber to keep the bowel movements from getting constipated. Hope this helps.
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I have a 10 yr old son that has been doing so many of the same things as is written on these comments. All three of my children are ADD or ADHD. My middle child exhibited the hoarding of food (and some gone real bad), candy, and other items. She has stolen and she lies to get out of trouble. I don't give my kids the chance to lie most of the time as I know almost all the time who has done what. I just ask them why they did it. They almost always say "I don't know, I just did it."
My youngest, my 10yr old son, has done the most nasty of stuffs. He has peed in his closet, air vents, garage, bottles, and many other places. He has smeared poop in the bathroom at home several times. He has also become pretty aggressive and has become obsessed with guns and knives. I don't have guns but he knows other people with them. He has knifed his mattress with a pocket knife he stole from my work pants. He has knifed his sister's kindle with a steak knife. He has destroyed other things as well. He has emptied shampoo, conditioner, soap, and hairspray bottles. His latest was just this last night where he was in the bathroom for a while and I had asked him if he left a mess. He said no and he was telling the truth but when I went in to tuck him in, his bedroom smelt like poop. He had put some poop in the shirt he was wearing for the day and hid it in the small pile of laundry in his room. He showed me it and I told him to immediately throw it in the outside garbage. Then told him to get in the shower as poop is a dirty place for germs. He doesn't seem to care that it is filthy. I asked him why and all he could say was that he was curious. He has been 'curious' about his poop since he was a baby in diapers. He is diagnosed with ADHD and is using Vyvance 50mg a day. The medicine is doing well for keeping his impulse issued down but he did not take his medicine that morning (shame on me for forgetting). I'm so glad to know that I'm not the only person that is having problems with this same thing. I can see there is a high occurance of ADHD kids having the same problem. My son is very bright in school and has been doing mostly on-line schooling. He is now in public school but there has been no issues in school of any bad behaviour. We have also started couseling since he knifed the Kindle (we were pretty scared we were losing him). I know there is more relevent information but can't think of what else to put in here. Hope this helps and hoping the path we are on will be easier for us.
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    Ya, impulse control is a huge problem with ADHD kids.  Without the meds, its so difficult for them.  Even as adults it can be a problem.  As they age, they do began to acquire more control.  And, of course, one thing that can help is to develop habits that take over from the impulses.  Hopefully, your son is slowly getting better.  One suggestion is to let him know that you realize that kids with ADHD don't always stop and think about using the bathroom until its too late.  Not his fault.  You would appreciate it if he has a mistake if he tells you so you can clean it up.  Don't make a big deal of it.  
    And by the way, I recommend (over on the ADHD forum) the book, "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley  a lot.  Given your situation, with all your kids, you might find it helpful.  Its got a lot of easily accessible answers.  A lot of other books read more like a novel - this just gives straight answers.  Best wishes.
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Same things happening with my 12 years old daughter, playing with the poop, hiding it, spreading it, hiding things, not knowing why, etc ... She was taking Riperidone and Zoloft, she has been on this drugs for almost a year and I do not see any improvement; she was diagnose "severe OCD"; we are lost on this, any advice or suggestion will be more than welcome
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   Does this happen at school or only at home?   Does it tend to happen at any time of the day or perhaps only when her meds are wearing off?
   Also the side effects of risperidone is constipation and for Zoloft it could be either constipation or diarrhea.  So possibly the meds have something to do with this. This site give lots of info on both meds.
   http://www.crazymeds.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/MedClass/MedList#R
  
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my brother has a similar this maybe kind of gross but he sniff the smell and will wipe it on the side of the couch and on Xbox controllers really gross when you don't realize and he also poop him self when he 24a  younger he seemed to stop but he still sniffs his poop I think it's just a freak habit my mom doesn't really realize that it's a problem just my brother being gross
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My child is 5 and just recently started doing this and she also has a mild case of SID.  I don't know what to do?  I thought maybe she is just constipated?  She does this when alone playing and smears it all over the carpets.  I don't know how to handle this situation but I feel I need to let her know that the behavior must stop?  I keep telling her it is for sanitary reasons....
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I just now read some more of the comments and letters about children who have an issue with poop etc......a bad habit with it maybe.
I am not a parent or anything but I feel for those who are... having to deal with a child who has a problem like this.
If it helps though.....I had dirty habits similar to many of the 'playing with poop' type habits I read on here. I was about 12 years old and did things like poo my pants deliberately (especially when out in the park or somewhere)....and at home a lot. It sexually arroused me . I probly did it about once a month or so (when mum was out....or I was allowed out or something). To be honest I loved it. I was still doing it when I was in my early twenties but gradually grew out of it. I never had anything like ADHD or OCD or anything I can think of and......I am sane and happy and just a normal sort of guy (well......I like to think so anyhow).
I reckon mums and carers may well put a huge importance on this kind of behaviour and worry them selves sick about the welfare and future of their child. If it's any help at all......I am coming from the inside (since I was exactly one of those dirty boys (and girls) talked about here.) and want to reasure people that I am a perfectly happy and well adjusted guy and although I was a very dirty kid (in secret) and played with my poo in places like public toilets or at home when mum was out, I dont think it is such a big deal. I bet almost ALL kids grow out of it. By the way, it seems ovious to me that kids are likely to go through a sexual phase which includes a fascination with poop and urine......thats exactly what i did and I know from talking to some other guys they did it too.
Thanks for reading.
Dominic
Take care......from Dominic
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my 11 daughter just suspend from school for writing the f word on the bathroom wall with her poop at when the principle looks at you and says your child is not normal its like they have already given up on her i am at my witts end i have 3 other daughters they are all 2 yrs apart my 11 is the oldest none of the other 3 do it she lies and steals and just acts like everything is okay when you tell her your grounded remember no what for is what i get i really need some advice
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Is she in elementary school or middle school!   Did she have the same problems in school last year?
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Art, playing together (see "Theraplay"), music, community-building, and therapeutic parenting are the main tools I've used with my son over the years. When he was younger, I used all those tools on an ongoing, everyday, numerous-times-throughout-the-day, constant basis.

He will always have some difficulties throughout his life (diagnoses are Attachment Disorder, ADHD, PDD-NOS(Autism), Developmental Coordination Disorder, and brain damage from prenatal exposure to birthmom's substance use), but most of the "behavioural" stuff  (poop-smearing, playing with poop, inappropriate urination in his room, tantrums, meltdowns, refusing to come for meals, food-hoarding/sneaking ,etc., etc., etc.) no longer takes place. There is hope for your child.
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Well, congratulations on having such good luck with your son.  It is luck, you know, although I'm certain you take credit for a good outcome.  Three years later, I stand by what I said,  My adopted son, now 15 and living in a boarding school for troubled boys, still lashes out physically whenever he can, puts anything and everything in his mouth and is functioning on a third-grade academic level.  No amount of intervention has helped him.  Just wanted to update you.  People are not the same you know.  It sounds as if you had better raw material to start with.
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My 4 yr old daughter does the same thing. She pooped in her closet today and smeared it on the wall. She also peed in her closet as well. She has been stealing as well, from the babysitters and the store. She hasn't been diagnosed with anything but I'm taking her to a doctor. She also is starting to lie and fight other kids. She is smart, so I'm hoping she won't have problems at school when she starts n august.
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thanks for your recommendation to look at this forum too. it is curiously satisfying to read that there are plenty of people out there going through similar problems with their children! Reading some of the comments, it seems as if most of those posting are from the other side of the pond to me (I'm from the UK) so I'm not sure what help is freely available to you. quality of care even varies and what help is available too. I feel lucky, that my post code just happens to have a very good LA that recruits and trains excellent foster carers and that part of its policy is to put in place people who can help with problem children. unfortunately practical help sometimes takes time to organise, hence my coming to these forums! I have had young people with ADHD  before, but none of them seem to have embraced the condition quite so thoroughly as this one! I believe that most of the young people who come into the care system have some sort of attachment disorder and as a result I have done a lot of research and taken training courses to help me understand the condition more. (Nancy Thomas) is an expert and have spoken with her and heard her speak on attachment, what a charismatic person, would recommend any of you to go listen to her if you get the chance. back to the young person I have now, his ADHD and some of the behaviours we are seeing are out of our experience and it is good to read all the different experiences and advice that is out there. he attends an EBD school, so at least school are very experienced with children who have  ADHD as well as a raft of other behaviour problems. I look forward (fingers crossed) to be around to see the boy become a well balanced, happy and healthy young man and for him to join the many other success (to one extent or another) stories that have lived with us during our career as foster carers. I wouldn't want to have missed a day of it even though we are struggling right now, we will get through it!
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My son is three and has been playing with his poop, running into walls intentionally, crying constantly, fights with his older sister, tries to coerce her into things, chews on cords. He is going to be four soon and I don't know what to do. He will be starting kindergarten next year. He is not adopted, his father is bipolar manic depressive. I left his father and got full custody. I am doing this all on my own. I have some help from family finally these past few months. I'm at my wits end!!!!!!!!! What do I do???
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I am continuously finding smeared poop that my almost 7 year-old is hiding throughout the house. His father had ADHD, and I'm beginning to wonder if my son has it too. I've noticed it more in areas around the computer (which he plays on) and in his bedroom (where he plays). He doesn't seem to want to walk away from the computer or TV when it's time to go to the bathroom. I'm at my wits end! I've had numerous conversation about how it can make people sick, and how bad it makes the house smell. Sometimes he pees in the same areas too. He knows it's not a good thing to do, and he continues to do it. I don't know if he's doing it a school or not, but I'd hate for his friends to start making fun of him for it. He loses his privileges, and has to help me clean up the mess, but he still continues to do it. It's good to hear that I'm not the only parent dealing with this problem, but I don't know how to get him to stop doing it.
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    Well kids with ADHD have 3 times more wetting accidents then kids with ADHD.  So that certainly could be part of the problem.  Kids with ADHD tend to hyper focus when they are interested and don't go until its too late.  And, of course, the younger they are - the greater lack of control.
   The sad thing is that if he does have ADHD - taking away privileges, etc.  will not make a difference at this age.  The control is not there.  
   What you  need to do is to roughly figure out when he has these accidents - then make him sit on the toilet for a set period of time.  He can not go back to the game until he has sat there for this time.  He does not have to have a bowel movement, but he does have to sit.  Repeat this every half hour.  
   Kids with ADHD need to be on a very regular schedule and the bathroom is one of those schedule things.  Over on the child behavior forum, this schedule visit is typically recommended for non ADHD kids.
   You definitely also want to talk to his school teacher and find out if she has noticed anything.   And I would also ask her how he does in relation to other kids during quiet study time, etc.
   Please feel free to post if you have any other questions.
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   Oh, and perhaps start your own post.  Its easy to not notice posts tagged on to other posts.
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My son will be 12 years old in January and recently in the last month we have found poop smeared everywhere bed, toilet, walls, furniture, clothes and towels, just this morning I found underwear soaked with pee in my couch. My husband has a touch of bipolar and has depression but it's controlled by meds. We have been happily married so far 15 years. We have a 14 year old son as well. So in reading all these comments are you saying that my son is ADD/ADHD?? We had him tested when he was younger but they said no, he is very smart, very active too! Does he have the depression my husband's family seem to have??? What is everyone saying this is??? A Stage????
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     Very smart kids can have ADHD so I don't understand their comments about him not having ADHD because he is very smart.  However, intelligence makes it harder to notice the ADHD in younger grades.  But as the child gets older and their innate intelligence is no longer able to help them get through subject areas like math (where you really have to pay attention in class), it should be easier to test for ADHD.  
     If the poop smearing has only recently began to happen, I would first wonder if there is not some medical problem happening.  I would have his doctor check him out.  My second thought would be to check with his school and see how he is doing there grade wise.  Is he beginning to get frustrated because he is not doing as well as he once used to do?
     Oh, speaking of schools.  Many times kids are afraid to use the school bathrooms and hold it till the point where they lose control and soil there clothes.  The smearing of the poop around would indicate frustration at whats going on.
     Any of this make sense?
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Thanks for pointing out no meds. I am so aganist them. I kept being told by family, just put him on meds, but I want to help my son, not to just pump him full of harmful medication that will make him into a zombie. I'll take a little extra activity in my life if thats the only other option.
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I am a mother of 4. My youngest son age 5 just started kindergarten this year. He was NEVER excited about school. Some mornings are easier than others but he pretty much never wants to go. I am a stay at home mom and he has never gone to preschool or daycare. He recently started pooping his pants and hiding it. Now he is touching it and I have found it on items in his room...walls, toys and blankets. I am not sure what to think besides YUCK! I have tried positive reinforcement for him using the bathroom, I have tried time outs, taking things away and ignoring it thinking maybe if I didn't react he would get bored with it.. NOT working. We are at our wits end. I need some advise on how to make this stop. I have thought about taking him to his DR. and seeing if they can do something? Husband is dead set on no MEDS for him. Do you think this is an adjustment thing?  
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  Really doubt if any medication would help anyway.  What you need to figure out is when and where this is happening.
  It is not unusual for kids to be afraid to use school restrooms and thus hold it until they can't.   And then once they get home - what do they do with it?
  Anyway, punishments won't work and will only make it worse.
  Sometimes a Dr. does need to be involved due to Encopresis.  And the doctor would do an exam to make sure that nothing is causing the problem.
  It sounds like "it" is fairly moist or he would not be able to smear it around? If so this would/should eliminate constipation problems.
   So, I think the first order of business is to figure out where this is happening.  And if at home - when it is happening.  If it is happening at home, then making sure that he has a schedule when he sits on the toilet around that time could take care of the problem.    
   And yes, if a way, it could be an adjustment problem which could be easily fixed by talking to the teacher depending on where it is happening.  So watch him closely, take notes for a few days and then get back to us.  Best wishes.
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My 15 year old step daughter just recently pooped herself and spread it all over my bathroom and her bedroom door but when confronted she shows no remorse or embarrassment. She also didn't take a shower for two days after and went to school. (Her choice) we have custody now but we have tried to fight for custody of her since she was little and the mother who is an alcoholic would run away with her and we would not have any contact for up to a couple of years. She had been previously diagnose with ADHD and bi polar but both we're ruled out. I also have a biological son who lives with hyperactivity and impulsiveness. She lies and believes her lies to be truth, she steals (we have had to install locks on the other kids doors and our own closet door. She recently accused my son of sneaking into her room to make out with her, but with survalience cameras installed we know this is also a lie. She has tried to attack authority figures with the last one being her father when she tried to stab him. She has no remorse for any of her actions and doesn't show any willingness to get help because she believes what she does is the way it is supposed to be. Here have been many more incidents and behavior problems. Way too many to list here in school and out of school. Her cps case worker suspects narcissism and other mental health professionals have suggested anti social personality disorder but they all say they cannot help her. We are her last hope before she gets put into a home.
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      She obviously has had a miserable childhood which is contributing to her behavior.  
      Wondering how recently the ADHD diagnosis was ruled out and if the person who did so was an experienced psyc.  Also has Sensory Processing Disorder been ruled out?   http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/
       I do wonder why the ADHD was ruled out as it would explain a lot of the actions.  Did the psyc do a survey of both you and the school teachers to rule this out?
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My four year old daughter is pooping a little in her pants and saying she can't feel it and then today she smeared poop all over her face and body. Any advise on how to get her out of this phase. People have told me she has ADHD but has never been diagnosed. She is very smart but won't show it to teachers. Help please
  
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My nephew might also have ADD because he keeps running around and shouting. he's 4 years old now and whenever we try to stop him he lies down and cries on the floor.  he also keeps on trying to get his toy cars and throw them to the wall
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   Sounds more like a 4 year old who wants his way.   Post over on the child behavior forum (start a new post) and we will try to help.
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Please can somebody advise me on what to do with my 10 year old. He was recently in trouble at school for blocking the sinks with paper towels and flooding the toilets. When questioned by the teachers they also discovered that he was responsible for an incident a couple of weeks earlier when poo was smeared on the toilet walls. When asked why he did it he said it was because he was angry because he was blamed for everything in school even when it wasn't his fault. He understood that what he did was dirty and not the right way to deal with his anger.  Things seemed to improve in school after that and as far as I know this didn't happen again, however I went into the bathroom this morning and saw poo smeared on our bathroom wall, when I asked why he did it he said it was because he was angry. Whenever he's in trouble or does something unacceptable like hitting his brother, lying, stealing he just clams up and can't explain why he's done it, we just get "I don't know" with a blank look on his face its so frustrating! He is the eldest of three children and at one point thought it may be a bit of jealousy as I was pregnant with my third child when the smearing started at school. He has always been Involved and I have always made sure he felt important as I had my other children so I can't understand why he is doing these things its like he wants to hurt me, he's seen me in tears over his behaviour I've begged him to tell me why he does the things he does. His lying is out of control and I find it extremely difficult to believe anything he says anymore. He makes things up to his friends and in school and other children have started to cotton on to his tall tales. I am at my wits end now and don't know who to turn to, I'm terrified that I'm loosing my bond with him I've gone through it a million times in my head and can't come up with an explanation as to why my beautiful little boys head seems so messed up. Please help!!
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I am so happy I found this group! I thought something was really wrong with my son who is now 10. He poops on himself and then hides the underwear. Sometimes he goes in the bathroom and goes to bathroom and then smears poop on the sides of the bathroom wall. He has also been taking his shirts and wiping himself (even in the bathroom) and puts them on the side of the sink. sometimes I look in the linen closet and find new washcloths way in the back with poop on them. I make him soak his underwear and wash then by hand before I wash them in the wash.
I have to make sure to check any of his underwear before I put them in the wash or I will get clumps of poo when I take the clothes out to dry. When I ask him why he does it hes says he does not know and looks like he is going to cry. For a while I was just not telling my husband, but I told him and now we are trying to figure it out. I got some good ideas from reading these posts, so thanks to everyone for posting.
He also wets the bed 3 out of 7 nights per week. I was thinking of getting one of those devices that wakes them up at night.
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My son had encopresis due to bowel distention with partial bowel blockage. The doctor got the blockage out and put him on a laxative for six months so his bowels could return to normal. They did a contrast x-ray to find the blockage.
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everyone that has problems with thier adhd children, i am a 21 year old male with adhd, i have neen off my meds aince i was 8 and i too have had problems similiar to those of your children, i played in my poop until i was in high school, i can tell you that after a while it's like an addiction i legitamatly had withdrawls much as a meth addict would, and i have been tested as a grnius, however i have problems intaking info, i have to do more than one thing at a time, that may possibly help with your children, and as far as lying goes, try to understand that it actually is part of the condition, abd that you need to keep telling them when they are caught in a lie, it lets them know that they cannot get away with it,  
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