Video games and not sleeping?

[busymomof6]

Our 9 year old has a lot of ADD/ADHD characteristics, but has not been formally diagnosed, nor treated with medication.  My issue is that he has always been a non sleeper.  Even as a baby, he slept less than what would be considered normal.  He will not sleep with the light off because he claims he's scared of the dark and he often gets up in the middle of the nite to play video games, computer or even just to read books.  Today he was awake at 4am, so he's functioning on only 7 hours of sleep!!!  I should say not functioning at all.  When he doesn't get enough sleep, he shows severe symptoms of ADD.  He acts out, gets easily frustrated, goes in circles, etc...  On the rare occasions that he is well rested, he acts completely normal and is very kind, considerate and caring.  We've tried taking all his video games away, putting an alarm on his bedroom door and even sending him back to bed.  All have failed obviously, because he's gotten very sneaky about getting up quietly.  He knows it's wrong, but he does it and gets away with it.  I'm at my wits end and not sure what else to do.  He has an IQ of 146 tested in grade 1, so he's extremely gifted, although I consider it a handicap.  Please any ideas???  I've got a 2 month old baby and sleep is a premium for us.  He's the oldest and even though we have a 4 year old with special needs, he's by far our most challenging.  

[Sandman2]

   If you wanted to try another kind of caffeine drink.  The Diet Snapple tea with berry flavors - serve it over ice - is pretty good and very few additives.  But you have to kind of like the tea taste.  It has about half the caffeine as coffee, I think.

[Sandman2]

Oppps, ignore the first part about the security camera.  That was for another poster.  I was in a hurry and doing to many things at once.  Sorry !

[Sandman2]

Well, thought of a few other things.
  First, if you haven't bought the video equipment - or find that you do need camera enclosures - here is a very good (and cheap) site.  
          http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=277&name=Accessories&cm_sp=SurveillanceandSecurity-_-flashstorefront-_-surveillanceaccessories&Pagesize=50&Page=2
         Also check out their security cameras
   You tweaked my interest when you mentioned caffeine.  I knew I had read some good references on that.  Finally found it.   Go to this site and then scroll down to the part on caffeine.  Lots of info here.
       http://www.healing-arts.org/children/ADHD/herbal.htm#Stimulants

       Book wise do try "Lafcadio, the lion who shot back", by shel silverstein.  I would read that aloud to my 5th graders.  Its a really funny book.  Any book by shel is good.  Also any of the Ronald Dahl books go over well.  On the adventure side is the classic, "Hatchet" by Gary Paulsen.
    
       You mentioned one other thing that bothers me, and that is how he is doing this year.  Really smart kids with ADHD or ADD sometimes go under the radar (unless they are really hyper), because due to their intelligence - their grades don't suffer.  I have worked with kids that didn't get noticed till 5th grade when suddenly they had gone from all A's to B's and C's.  Essentially, the subject matter - especially in math was now either difficult enough or different enough that their innate intelligence wasn't enough.  Because they couldn't focus during the teacher's explanation, they weren't learning how to do the new material.  Things like common denominators were a good example of this.  I would notice a increasing frustration level with these kids that eventually led to them just giving up.  Lack of friends also tended to happen if their social filters weren't working.     Anyway, hate to add more stuff to the pot.  But I would feel remiss if I didn't mention this.  I had several kids diagnosed in 5th grade (they were always very smart), and their lives turned around.  On the other hand - he could just be bored and has a not very good teacher.  That happens.  Real reason I mention this is that the two situations are handled very differently depending on what is going on with the child.
   If you want to go into this a bit more - the site I referred to with the info on caffeine is probably one of the best I have seen.  Its almost too much info for most people because it is so complete.  If you are interested - I would start here -
          http://www.healing-arts.org/children/ADHD/index.htm
   I can recommend other places.  If you do think its worth following up on the ADHD/ADD aspect - I highly recommend this book.  "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.   Its also a lot easier to navigate then the site noted above.

   Hope this is not too much info.  Let me know if I can help any other way.  Best wishes.

[busymomof6]

He has a room full of good books, his aunt is a retired 4th grade teacher:)  He seems to get bored with chapter books, but we keep trying to get him interested in them.  His homework is actually a bit of an issue because even though he is extremely smart, he is not that motivated.  He doesn't want to prove himself to his new teacher this year and finds the regualar work tedious and boring.  We've met with his teacher and she isn't really even aware of his high IQ because he acts average in class and is a bit of a trouble maker this year.  We were lucky the last two years and had teachers with a lot of experience that kept him challenged and excited in school.  This year he is hating school and has very few friends:(

I read somewhere that caffeine worked as a depressant in kids with hyperactive nature, but I've not been able to find anything he'll drink that doesn't have a ton of preservatives or colors (moutain dew is loaded with both).  The melatonin I agree, seemed tricky to dose and I hated the idea of having him to have a crutch to sleep.  

He is not sleeping at school and has never slept in . I remember a trip in the car when he was screaming because he was so tired and said he just couldn't get comfortable enough to sleep (We were frantically looking for a motel and it was very late).  We'll try working with the time change and letting him stay up a little later, then work back like you suggested, but I hate to say this has been a habit for 9 years for him.  I used to cry because he slept little as a baby and screamed all the time.  He had horrible colic.  Thanks for the help and let me know if you think of anything else!    

[Sandman2]

  Thats the trouble with smart kids.  They are smart.  As they grow older, they get more mature and have more control.  Now its an almost instantaneously  reaction to their environment, without much thinking on their part.
   I really don't know for sure how many hours - I would think 8 to 9.  But I do know it varies.  If he is not falling asleep during the day at school (boy, have I had kids do that), then he is probably getting enough sleep.  It will take time to adjust to the time change.  TilI then I would let him stay up an hour later as long as he is doing something like reading. There are a ton of really good age appropriate books out there.   No games.  He probably is smart enough that his homework is long done.  After a week or two, start adjusting the go to bed time down a bit.  Just make sure he is not sleeping in and not sleeping at school.  Oh, you do have to watch out even with the reading.  If he gets into a good book, he might try and read for hours.  This is where a kindle with a automatic shutoff would be a great invention.
  Not sure why you mentioned caffeine - that is an upper.  And the melatonin is tricky. I would only use it as a last resort.  
  Hope this helps.

[busymomof6]

We've got him in every sport, hoping to keep him active and less in trouble.  This time of year, it's basketball.  We even have our own basketball court outside our house, but he much prefers to play video games, or his computer.  I have to force him to go outside to play and then reward him by let him playing a game afterwards.  We've taken away his DSi during the school week because we've seen a dramatic behavioural change when he plays it.  He's just do darned sneaky and smart that I feel he knows how to get away with it.  I have tried the melatonin with mixed results.  I was unsure of the dosage.  He's the smallest in his class this year, so I hate to try caffeine.  I've eliminated all the dyes in the foods he eats, which was a huge improvement in his attitude.  Now we're just dealing with the sleep issue.  So frustating I could cry:(  What is adaquate sleep for a 9 year old?  I would think it would be at least 9 hours, but am I wrong for assuming that?  We try to get him to fall asleep around 9pm, and think he should stay in bed until 6, but he's usually up by 5.  You're right about the time change, but he isn't going to sleep that hour earlier like he should.

[Sandman2]

    I have seen several studies that tie in ADHD characteristics with lack of sleep.  You might want to talk with a pediatric psychiatrist about something to aid in the sleep.  Melatonin is a over the counter medication that is used a lot.  Reason for the psyc is for guidance.  I don't think you want this to be trial and error on your part.
  Of course getting up at 4am today, was like waking up at 5am last week.  It does take kids a while to adapt to the time changes.  If he is only off by one hour. Try letting him stay up a bit later.  I would definitely try that before going the medication route.
  How active is he after school?  Trying to increase the activity levels can really help with sleep at night.  Swimming and  basketball can be done indoors and will really tire anybody out.