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How do you know what to believe?
I apologize if this is long, I'm just really confused right now. I have been with my husband for over 10 years. We have 4 kids together and he has raised my oldest (now 13) since she was a toddler. He's the only Dad she's ever known. We aren't perfect parents, we both have depression and mood disorders and take medication. My husband has made great strides the last few yers with his anger problems, I had done well until I went off meds for a pregnancy and have since been very moody.
I had thought that the last several months my oldest and I and she and my husband had both improved our relationships with each other. She was talking to me more, chatting about friends and asking me all kinds of questions about just abotu everything. Her and her Dad (stepdad) seemed to get al ong better as well. I've known for awhile that she has a problem with internalizing her feelings and not talking about them.
Last night I got the shock of my life. She had gone to stay at a friends house and in the middle of the night I get a call from the LAW telling me they have my daughter. My husband and I both went down there, we had to take the rest of the kids with us. When we got there they asked him to stay in the waiting room with the kids. I went back and had my world compeltely turned upside down. My daughter has accused my husband of molesting her??!?!?!?
I want to believe them both. The only incidents she has brought up have been this past week, starting wednesday to be exact...she says that once he rubbed her crotch and made a "throaty noise" and that another day he asked to see her breasts. He, of course, denies it. He's not mad, more, but he keeps going over things trying to figure out what he did that she could have misconstrued. She's not usually the type to make stuff up but at the same time she is easily persuaded into thinking things. I find it odd that she just so happened to be at this girls house when all this went down.
Her behavior and demeanor have not changed over the last several days, she didn't tell me, nor did she tell her grandma whom she confides a lot of stuff in. She saved some texts that her dad sent her but as the officer said it's nothing incriminating. There is no evidence, no witnesses, and the found no reason for an arrest. My husband has to go down tuesday to make a statement and will be offered a lie detector test. Soemthing that bothers me about her accusations is that she's always been one to not like saying words that refer to private parts or talking about sexually related things. Even in just asking me things about pregnancy she gets really shy and mumbles when she says stuff. But last night when they turned on the tape to record her statement she was spitting things out almost like it was rehearsed?? Complete with sound effects.
In light of the situation I sent her back to her friends for the night becuase I had nowhere else for any of us to go. Becuase of the sitaution I went in her room and found her journal and read it. I wanted to see if maybe she mentioned anything in it. She only has a few entries. Mostly about how much she hates me and DH and calls us a bunch of names and talks about how she enjoys pushing our buttons and that she thinks WE enjoy pissing HER off. She talks about this boy she likes and goes on to mention something about marks on her wrist and cutting herself. I've never noticed these but I don't go inspecting her wrists either. I will be checking when she gets home. She also refers to her siblings as "the rest of the little SH***S" From what I read it's obvious she has serious anger and resentment issues with us.
I can't help but wonder if this isn't a way to get back at us or something. I have never seen anything inappropriate between my husband and her or my husband and our other daughter. Who's side do you take? How do you handle this? At this point I'm sitting in limbo and don't know WHAT to think or do. I don't want to believe she's a liar but I don't want to believe my husband is a child molester either. Someone from childrens services is supposed to be calling to interview us today. I will also be calling first thing monday to schedule an appt with a psychiatric counselor for my daughter. I dont' want to be one of those parents that assumes my child is a liar, but at the same time I don't have any evidence to believe it really happened either. Even the officers acted like they didn't believe her. We aren't takling about a trouble maker...she's had straight a's sine 4th grade. Never had detention or been sent to the office, etc.
I had thought that the last several months my oldest and I and she and my husband had both improved our relationships with each other. She was talking to me more, chatting about friends and asking me all kinds of questions about just abotu everything. Her and her Dad (stepdad) seemed to get al ong better as well. I've known for awhile that she has a problem with internalizing her feelings and not talking about them.
Last night I got the shock of my life. She had gone to stay at a friends house and in the middle of the night I get a call from the LAW telling me they have my daughter. My husband and I both went down there, we had to take the rest of the kids with us. When we got there they asked him to stay in the waiting room with the kids. I went back and had my world compeltely turned upside down. My daughter has accused my husband of molesting her??!?!?!?
I want to believe them both. The only incidents she has brought up have been this past week, starting wednesday to be exact...she says that once he rubbed her crotch and made a "throaty noise" and that another day he asked to see her breasts. He, of course, denies it. He's not mad, more, but he keeps going over things trying to figure out what he did that she could have misconstrued. She's not usually the type to make stuff up but at the same time she is easily persuaded into thinking things. I find it odd that she just so happened to be at this girls house when all this went down.
Her behavior and demeanor have not changed over the last several days, she didn't tell me, nor did she tell her grandma whom she confides a lot of stuff in. She saved some texts that her dad sent her but as the officer said it's nothing incriminating. There is no evidence, no witnesses, and the found no reason for an arrest. My husband has to go down tuesday to make a statement and will be offered a lie detector test. Soemthing that bothers me about her accusations is that she's always been one to not like saying words that refer to private parts or talking about sexually related things. Even in just asking me things about pregnancy she gets really shy and mumbles when she says stuff. But last night when they turned on the tape to record her statement she was spitting things out almost like it was rehearsed?? Complete with sound effects.
In light of the situation I sent her back to her friends for the night becuase I had nowhere else for any of us to go. Becuase of the sitaution I went in her room and found her journal and read it. I wanted to see if maybe she mentioned anything in it. She only has a few entries. Mostly about how much she hates me and DH and calls us a bunch of names and talks about how she enjoys pushing our buttons and that she thinks WE enjoy pissing HER off. She talks about this boy she likes and goes on to mention something about marks on her wrist and cutting herself. I've never noticed these but I don't go inspecting her wrists either. I will be checking when she gets home. She also refers to her siblings as "the rest of the little SH***S" From what I read it's obvious she has serious anger and resentment issues with us.
I can't help but wonder if this isn't a way to get back at us or something. I have never seen anything inappropriate between my husband and her or my husband and our other daughter. Who's side do you take? How do you handle this? At this point I'm sitting in limbo and don't know WHAT to think or do. I don't want to believe she's a liar but I don't want to believe my husband is a child molester either. Someone from childrens services is supposed to be calling to interview us today. I will also be calling first thing monday to schedule an appt with a psychiatric counselor for my daughter. I dont' want to be one of those parents that assumes my child is a liar, but at the same time I don't have any evidence to believe it really happened either. Even the officers acted like they didn't believe her. We aren't takling about a trouble maker...she's had straight a's sine 4th grade. Never had detention or been sent to the office, etc.
or maybe it did happen to her but not with ur husband but with her friends father or relative or something and shes looking for her fathers attention in that way?
II read your story and my feeling are that you have to wake up and think about every thing after every thing that I read I had to believe that it mey not be true about what your daughter is saying ... her personality seems to change.. to a surprise to you ... so d ou not think for a minute she is not trying to manipulate ... and is her way of wanting your attention that maybe she feel she is lacking some where or that something is bothering her ..... look into that ...
From a person who was molested continuously throughout her childhood, I personally don't think your daughter was molested. I am so sorry to disagree with everyone, but she is just too blase' and nonchalant about the entire thing. Had this actually happened, after she told someone, she would not have been able to face her "dad." She would have been afraid of his reaction, afraid of what he was going to say and afraid of being "touched" again. Obviously, none of this seems to bother her, this nightmare seems to be the burden of you and your husband.
I do, however, feel that she has deep emotional issues and this is the outcome, I think that she wanted to shout out to someone and be listened to and this was a way to do it. One thing that really stuck in my head was the fact that when you were a "dumb teenager," she lived with your mother for a little while. You never elaborated on that, but for some reason she feels like she wasn't wanted and she was a "mistake," where did she get that word, "mistake?" My mother told me that I was her biggest "mistake" and that's how I grew up, and it seems like your daughter has the same issues.
When I was younger (a pre-teen) and wanted some attention, and please don't judge, the only attention I ever got was beatings, rapes and disgust, I would tell my grandmother that my mom's boyfriend at the time "touched" me. That is the ONLY thing anyone ever listened to. Granted, my grandmother didn't really care, nor did my mother, but the police cared and so did the school.
I was molested and raped repeatedly by many of my mother's boyfriends (johns, she was a prostitute), but even when it didn't happen, I would say it did.
I don't mean to put you on the spot, but did you ever resent your daughter or was anything ever said to her to mold that insecurity she has? I mean, I don't believe that she was unscathed by what happened when she was a small child or that nothing has been said to her negatively about her being a "mistake" or about her having all these insecurities. SOMETHING has triggered this, and also triggered her hatred for you and your husband and the other kids.
If you can think back when this all started, was there some kind of trigger? Like, was her depression or was her insecurities getting worse? Was she reprimanded for something? Did you fight with her at all about any discipline she got from your husband, and you thought he was right? Was she in contact with your mother at that time? Other than the fact that she is a teenager, and they all go through trying times, there is something that is missing here. Something brought out all those negative feelings about you not really wanting her and her feeling like she is a mistake.
I believe that you are not totally innocent in this situation. I think just by your posts that you have jealousy issues against your mother liking your daughter more than you. I don't know that to be fact, but it is what I read into this. That IN NO WAY means that I think that your mother isn't influencing your daughter and may be controlling her because I think she is. But your daughter holds a tremendous grudge against you for something said or done, and you seem really bitter against your mother. All this can lead to what has happened now. And the final equation is your husband. Obviously something happened with him to trigger this way of thinking, whether a friend talked about it and your daughter realized that this is a way to get a lot of attention or they had an argument or something. But you are DEFINITELY RIGHT in the fact that she would not be sleeping on the couch when he gets home or walking anywhere with only a towel if this actually happened. She would be slinking around in fear.
There is more to this story, and instead of going from the point when this started, THINK BACK! Maybe she felt you were ignoring her more or something! Whatever it is, she is a tortured soul and needs help and you need to be there for her. Cutting herself is a major indication of a problem and I don't understand why, in everyday contact with her, someone didn't see scars! That doesn't meant that you needed to "inspect her wrists," but it does mean that you obviously haven't been in close contact with her for a long time and I find that a problem.
Regardless, NEVER tell your daughter that you side with your husband or that her stories are far fetched. This is what I believe and I base my beliefs on what I went through (and yes, I was also molested by my dad), but that doesn't mean I'm right.
This whole family seems to be scarred, especially now, and you should probably all seek treatment. If your daughter feels the way she does about her siblings, they probably have issues, too. Things like this tend to trickle down, and resentment and anger is had by all.
Good luck and God Bless
I do, however, feel that she has deep emotional issues and this is the outcome, I think that she wanted to shout out to someone and be listened to and this was a way to do it. One thing that really stuck in my head was the fact that when you were a "dumb teenager," she lived with your mother for a little while. You never elaborated on that, but for some reason she feels like she wasn't wanted and she was a "mistake," where did she get that word, "mistake?" My mother told me that I was her biggest "mistake" and that's how I grew up, and it seems like your daughter has the same issues.
When I was younger (a pre-teen) and wanted some attention, and please don't judge, the only attention I ever got was beatings, rapes and disgust, I would tell my grandmother that my mom's boyfriend at the time "touched" me. That is the ONLY thing anyone ever listened to. Granted, my grandmother didn't really care, nor did my mother, but the police cared and so did the school.
I was molested and raped repeatedly by many of my mother's boyfriends (johns, she was a prostitute), but even when it didn't happen, I would say it did.
I don't mean to put you on the spot, but did you ever resent your daughter or was anything ever said to her to mold that insecurity she has? I mean, I don't believe that she was unscathed by what happened when she was a small child or that nothing has been said to her negatively about her being a "mistake" or about her having all these insecurities. SOMETHING has triggered this, and also triggered her hatred for you and your husband and the other kids.
If you can think back when this all started, was there some kind of trigger? Like, was her depression or was her insecurities getting worse? Was she reprimanded for something? Did you fight with her at all about any discipline she got from your husband, and you thought he was right? Was she in contact with your mother at that time? Other than the fact that she is a teenager, and they all go through trying times, there is something that is missing here. Something brought out all those negative feelings about you not really wanting her and her feeling like she is a mistake.
I believe that you are not totally innocent in this situation. I think just by your posts that you have jealousy issues against your mother liking your daughter more than you. I don't know that to be fact, but it is what I read into this. That IN NO WAY means that I think that your mother isn't influencing your daughter and may be controlling her because I think she is. But your daughter holds a tremendous grudge against you for something said or done, and you seem really bitter against your mother. All this can lead to what has happened now. And the final equation is your husband. Obviously something happened with him to trigger this way of thinking, whether a friend talked about it and your daughter realized that this is a way to get a lot of attention or they had an argument or something. But you are DEFINITELY RIGHT in the fact that she would not be sleeping on the couch when he gets home or walking anywhere with only a towel if this actually happened. She would be slinking around in fear.
There is more to this story, and instead of going from the point when this started, THINK BACK! Maybe she felt you were ignoring her more or something! Whatever it is, she is a tortured soul and needs help and you need to be there for her. Cutting herself is a major indication of a problem and I don't understand why, in everyday contact with her, someone didn't see scars! That doesn't meant that you needed to "inspect her wrists," but it does mean that you obviously haven't been in close contact with her for a long time and I find that a problem.
Regardless, NEVER tell your daughter that you side with your husband or that her stories are far fetched. This is what I believe and I base my beliefs on what I went through (and yes, I was also molested by my dad), but that doesn't mean I'm right.
This whole family seems to be scarred, especially now, and you should probably all seek treatment. If your daughter feels the way she does about her siblings, they probably have issues, too. Things like this tend to trickle down, and resentment and anger is had by all.
Good luck and God Bless
Best wishes, fartoogone. I think this has ended as well as can be expected, and I pray for healing for your whole family.
allmymarbles: I tend to agree with you. I believe that whatever was said at her friends house sparked her friend to go wild with it. According to my daughter she, herself was "too scared" to call the police so her friend is the one who initiated the call. I don't think she is an evil creature either, but I do think she needs some help working through her thoughts and emotions.
Here's the latest update: The detective called my husband this afternoon and told him that even though the case is closed they are going to pull the records of his text messages to "keep in the file". Not sure why they didn't do it before and why it's so important now but whatever. My husband told them to pull whatever they like becuase he has nothing to hide.
I spoke with the lady from CPS this afternoon as well and she said that they had a meeting and determined that it isn't really necessary to continue wtih the forensic evaluation since I can not afford the out of pocket costs and the state is low on funding and can't help. They just want me to go ahead and get her started with the counseling I had originally planned to. So she is scheduled for the first appt for that next week. She also told me that sometime next week I should be receiving a letter from them stating that their investigation is closed and is being listed as unsubstantiated.
I asked her about the statement I signed saying I would not leave my daughter and husband alone. She said at this point as long as my daughter is comfortable around him and I am comfortable that I no longer need to do that. I won't make her stay alone with him but if SHE chooses to, then that is her choice.
So, the investigations part of all this should be over soon. Hopefully we can work through the rest of it and move on.
Part of me wants to keep her from talking to this friend of hers again because I feel she was a big part of the problem, but the other part feels that perhaps this girl was really just doing what she felt was best to protect her friend, becuase I have no idea what my daughter told her. I do know that she will NOT be spending the night with her (or probably anyone else) for quite some time.
I wanted to say thank you to everyone who replied...whether you agreed with the things I said/felt or not. Hearing everyones point of view really helped me to keep a level head about all of this. It's also wonderful to have a place to sound off to and to get my thoughts into writing where I can look back over them.
Here's the latest update: The detective called my husband this afternoon and told him that even though the case is closed they are going to pull the records of his text messages to "keep in the file". Not sure why they didn't do it before and why it's so important now but whatever. My husband told them to pull whatever they like becuase he has nothing to hide.
I spoke with the lady from CPS this afternoon as well and she said that they had a meeting and determined that it isn't really necessary to continue wtih the forensic evaluation since I can not afford the out of pocket costs and the state is low on funding and can't help. They just want me to go ahead and get her started with the counseling I had originally planned to. So she is scheduled for the first appt for that next week. She also told me that sometime next week I should be receiving a letter from them stating that their investigation is closed and is being listed as unsubstantiated.
I asked her about the statement I signed saying I would not leave my daughter and husband alone. She said at this point as long as my daughter is comfortable around him and I am comfortable that I no longer need to do that. I won't make her stay alone with him but if SHE chooses to, then that is her choice.
So, the investigations part of all this should be over soon. Hopefully we can work through the rest of it and move on.
Part of me wants to keep her from talking to this friend of hers again because I feel she was a big part of the problem, but the other part feels that perhaps this girl was really just doing what she felt was best to protect her friend, becuase I have no idea what my daughter told her. I do know that she will NOT be spending the night with her (or probably anyone else) for quite some time.
I wanted to say thank you to everyone who replied...whether you agreed with the things I said/felt or not. Hearing everyones point of view really helped me to keep a level head about all of this. It's also wonderful to have a place to sound off to and to get my thoughts into writing where I can look back over them.
A word about your daughter. I don't think she is an evil creature. I think she created her little drama, but never expected it to go this far. I assume it was the family she was staying with that took the initiative, taking what she said at face value. Your daughter's problem now is living with the embarrassment and guilt.
I am impressed with the quality of your mind and your ability to explore every avenue, even though you feel, deep down, that your daughter is not telling the truth. I hope this episode does not hurt your marriage too badly.
Some on this forum have said that a child should always be believed. In general this is true. But I have known girls in the throes of puberty who seek drama and attention, often to demonstrate their desirability. Because of your daughter's attitude after the police were involved, I did not find her trustworthy. (And I am sure she feels very badly about creating this mess.) I hope this all works out for you and your family.
Some on this forum have said that a child should always be believed. In general this is true. But I have known girls in the throes of puberty who seek drama and attention, often to demonstrate their desirability. Because of your daughter's attitude after the police were involved, I did not find her trustworthy. (And I am sure she feels very badly about creating this mess.) I hope this all works out for you and your family.
RockRose: I honestly don't think this detective would go that route. He keeps mentioning the time and effort he put into this "investigation" and how if she waits until the end to come clean he won't be in "such a good mood" as he put it. I figure the best thing I can do is to get her therapy and if there is truth anywhere in this it will come out then. The therapist she will be seeing is a mandated reporter (of course) and works very closely with CPS in this area, she is the one they refer to, although I chose her on my own becuase of the good things I've heard about her.
Showsover: My gut and my heart tell me that she is either straight up lying or she allowed her friend to convince her of somethign that wasn't. I base this on several factors not just the polygraph-I know the statistics on them, I did my research. I do understand where you are coming from with your reply and that was one of my intial worries (and still is to a degree). That I don't believe her and it would be true. However, I have come to the conclusion that there isnt' much I can/should do other than go with my gut/heart. I can't just uproot my other childrens lives any more so than they already have been on the word of a very troubled teenager.
I'm still waiting to hear from CPS to see where we are with them. I know they had a meeting with the multidisciplinary team on Wednesday and that is when they discuss all the open cases so now I just get to wait and see.
Showsover: My gut and my heart tell me that she is either straight up lying or she allowed her friend to convince her of somethign that wasn't. I base this on several factors not just the polygraph-I know the statistics on them, I did my research. I do understand where you are coming from with your reply and that was one of my intial worries (and still is to a degree). That I don't believe her and it would be true. However, I have come to the conclusion that there isnt' much I can/should do other than go with my gut/heart. I can't just uproot my other childrens lives any more so than they already have been on the word of a very troubled teenager.
I'm still waiting to hear from CPS to see where we are with them. I know they had a meeting with the multidisciplinary team on Wednesday and that is when they discuss all the open cases so now I just get to wait and see.
I say go with your gut. I don't think your daughter would lie to you. I'm sorry if I'm upsetting anyone on this post, but coming from a troubled background myself, I know for a FACT that fathers/uncles/any male family members molest their kids. I tried telling a close one about it when I was a little kid, and they didn't believe me, and I was cut off and seen as the "liar." Its the worse feeling in the world, and it haunted me for years. I'm over it now, through the power of prayer, and self esteem. If your daughter is telling you the truth, you have no idea the affect it can have on her, if you don't believe her. It's terrible. Your husband won't admit to it, if he is, in fact, lying I promise you. Some people easily pass the lie detector tests. It very common for some. Go with your heart. I wish you the best.
I agree about the detective. He seems to really be forcing her to dig in her heels - I wonder if you could talk to him privately about giving her an "amnesty" time where there will be no consequences?
I wish you the best -
I wish you the best -
I can sense the anger he has, I can also feel the anger I have about everything. Which is why I have chose NOT to discuss this with her any more than I have to becuase I'm afraid I will take that anger out on her and regardless of the truth, that's not a good thing.
My husband is obviously ready to move past this. But he feels very strongly about her getting therapy. The detective keeps telling me how my daughter can be charged for making false statements. I don' tknow if he thinks that's going to convince her to come forward saying she lied or what, but I think if anything it will keep her from doing so. My husband does NOT believe that sending her to YDC or even just charging her and sending her through the court system to "scare" her would be beneficial for someone like her. He thinks it would mess her up more than she already is.
My mom is still wearing blinders in all this. Everytime I tell her something she twists it and talks about all the "stories" she's heard about how these people or this test can be wrong. She did that about the polygraph to which I explained to her that I have researched polygraphs and know what the success rates are. I also know that false passes are far less likely false fails. They made him do one silent test and 2 verbal tests. He did a verbal first, then the silent where he had to just think the answer, then another verbal.
Whatever really happened, whatever her intentions, hopefully therapy is going to help her resolve some things inside herself. She's been very smug lately. Sometimes it's really hard for me to not ask her if she's enjoying all of this becuaes sometimes that's what it seems like.
The last time I talked to the CPS lady she kept mentioning how my daughter would talk about my husband as being a good dad and how he wouldn't let anything happen to her or any of us.
As for now the police investigation is over. We just have to wait for CPS to finish their protocal. Hopefully she will be able to tell me more today.
As I told my mom, I have a hard time believing my daughters words when her actions speak differently, however, if it ever comes out later down the road that there was truth to any of this I will eat my words and be the first to admit I was wrong. But for now I can only go on what I see and have been told, what the results of the poly were and how everyone has reacted and base my conclusion on that. Right now it tells me she's just screaming for attention.
My husband is obviously ready to move past this. But he feels very strongly about her getting therapy. The detective keeps telling me how my daughter can be charged for making false statements. I don' tknow if he thinks that's going to convince her to come forward saying she lied or what, but I think if anything it will keep her from doing so. My husband does NOT believe that sending her to YDC or even just charging her and sending her through the court system to "scare" her would be beneficial for someone like her. He thinks it would mess her up more than she already is.
My mom is still wearing blinders in all this. Everytime I tell her something she twists it and talks about all the "stories" she's heard about how these people or this test can be wrong. She did that about the polygraph to which I explained to her that I have researched polygraphs and know what the success rates are. I also know that false passes are far less likely false fails. They made him do one silent test and 2 verbal tests. He did a verbal first, then the silent where he had to just think the answer, then another verbal.
Whatever really happened, whatever her intentions, hopefully therapy is going to help her resolve some things inside herself. She's been very smug lately. Sometimes it's really hard for me to not ask her if she's enjoying all of this becuaes sometimes that's what it seems like.
The last time I talked to the CPS lady she kept mentioning how my daughter would talk about my husband as being a good dad and how he wouldn't let anything happen to her or any of us.
As for now the police investigation is over. We just have to wait for CPS to finish their protocal. Hopefully she will be able to tell me more today.
As I told my mom, I have a hard time believing my daughters words when her actions speak differently, however, if it ever comes out later down the road that there was truth to any of this I will eat my words and be the first to admit I was wrong. But for now I can only go on what I see and have been told, what the results of the poly were and how everyone has reacted and base my conclusion on that. Right now it tells me she's just screaming for attention.
I had a strong feeling he would pass, fartoogone, and I'm surprised your husband is taking this so well. I really suspect when the dust settles and the fear subsides, the anger will set in and this will be VERY hard to get over, for him. It sounds like his day to day life in his own home is very compromised - having always to watch what rooms he is in and making sure he's not alone with her - what a weight to endure.
Best wishes. At this point, I wonder what kind of answer you will get that will be clearer than her behavior and his passing 3 polys? I don't think at this point she'll come forward - ever - and say she lied, nor do I think he'll come forward and say he did those things.
I think sometimes you just have to patch the evidence together - VERY strong in his case - and make your best guess.
Best wishes. You still sound like you're holding up very well under the circumstances.
Best wishes. At this point, I wonder what kind of answer you will get that will be clearer than her behavior and his passing 3 polys? I don't think at this point she'll come forward - ever - and say she lied, nor do I think he'll come forward and say he did those things.
I think sometimes you just have to patch the evidence together - VERY strong in his case - and make your best guess.
Best wishes. You still sound like you're holding up very well under the circumstances.
Thank you for the words of encouragement, painbrain.
My husband took the polygraph today. They made him take it 3 times, they said that was procedure to help eliminate people who are trying to "control" the test. He passed all 3 times.
I'm should be hearing something from CPS soon as to where they are going with their investigation but from what the lady told me yesterday it's leaning towards them closing it and listing the allegations as "unsubstantiated" But we all agree that my daughter will continue in therapy and of course if anythign comes up later, the therapist is a mandated reporter so she wuold notify CPS if necessary. At this point we are still in limbo, but one more step is behind us.
My daughter hasn't brought any of it up again, she goes about her business acting as though nothing has happened. She asks him if she can have one of his sodas or will want to go outside with him and her siblings (which I haven't been able to let her do unless I am out there as well). The only thing she won't do is tell him goodnight or goodbye.
He avoids her to the extent of not being near her..sitting or standing..or being in the same room with her without someone else present.
Whatever the outcome, whatever happened, I just want the truth to come out. I wish it were as simply done as it is said. If the investigations are dropped and nothing comes out of them, this has definately opened my eyes and I will keeping better tabs on interactions between everyone just to be sure I'm aware of what's going on. Hopefully her getting therapy will help shed some more light on this situation.
My husband took the polygraph today. They made him take it 3 times, they said that was procedure to help eliminate people who are trying to "control" the test. He passed all 3 times.
I'm should be hearing something from CPS soon as to where they are going with their investigation but from what the lady told me yesterday it's leaning towards them closing it and listing the allegations as "unsubstantiated" But we all agree that my daughter will continue in therapy and of course if anythign comes up later, the therapist is a mandated reporter so she wuold notify CPS if necessary. At this point we are still in limbo, but one more step is behind us.
My daughter hasn't brought any of it up again, she goes about her business acting as though nothing has happened. She asks him if she can have one of his sodas or will want to go outside with him and her siblings (which I haven't been able to let her do unless I am out there as well). The only thing she won't do is tell him goodnight or goodbye.
He avoids her to the extent of not being near her..sitting or standing..or being in the same room with her without someone else present.
Whatever the outcome, whatever happened, I just want the truth to come out. I wish it were as simply done as it is said. If the investigations are dropped and nothing comes out of them, this has definately opened my eyes and I will keeping better tabs on interactions between everyone just to be sure I'm aware of what's going on. Hopefully her getting therapy will help shed some more light on this situation.
I would like to add you and your entire family (including your mother, because it seems as though she may have some things she could use help improving as well) to my "prayer list" if you don't mind.
I think it is important that you look out for you through out all of this experience. Like it or not this whole experience is going to impact your family members and the relationships you have on them. It is obvious to me that you have a sincere desire to "be there" for all of the "members" of the team that is your family. You will not be able to do this and survive yourself if you don't take care of yourself. I know it already feels like you are far too gone to get worse, but you are here, you are breathing, you are still kicking and doing your best to hold your family together.
You are not yet "too" far gone my dear, and don't let yourself loose sight of that okay. I have faith that what is to be will be, and that you will make it through whatever storms this old life throws at you.
You have done it before, and you will be able to do it again.
Keep your head up, sooner or later you will see a sunrise. :)
~painbrain
I think it is important that you look out for you through out all of this experience. Like it or not this whole experience is going to impact your family members and the relationships you have on them. It is obvious to me that you have a sincere desire to "be there" for all of the "members" of the team that is your family. You will not be able to do this and survive yourself if you don't take care of yourself. I know it already feels like you are far too gone to get worse, but you are here, you are breathing, you are still kicking and doing your best to hold your family together.
You are not yet "too" far gone my dear, and don't let yourself loose sight of that okay. I have faith that what is to be will be, and that you will make it through whatever storms this old life throws at you.
You have done it before, and you will be able to do it again.
Keep your head up, sooner or later you will see a sunrise. :)
~painbrain
Thank you for your reply. At this point we are all just going with the flow of the police and CPS investigations. My daughter as long had self esteem/body image/trust issues that you mentioned. For as far back as I can remember she has had them. Going on my own intuition and confimation from the forensic psychologist we are not discussing the issues at hand, nor is she allowed to have unmonitored contact wtih friends, especially the girl she was with when this came about. She is also not having unmonitored contact with my mother becuase there are issues there with my mom influencing her as well. The psychologist believes (and it was my initial feeling as well when I stopped her contact with others as mentioned) that becuase this IS such a questionable accusation and with her being an older child, it's best to leave her to her own thoughts, uninfluenced, to make her decisions and determinations on her own. He advised me NOT to discuss any of this with her beyond briefly explaining what each next step will involve.
I also expressed to him that I feel really bad for NOT believing her 100% and what he said made sense to me. He told me not to judge myself on what I believe or don't believe becuase I can't control that. But what I CAN control are my actions and thusfar he says I've done exactly what I need to do to protect her.
She, herself, doesn't seem very concerned about any of this. She just keeps telling everyone she doesn't want to break up the family or for him to go to jail, just for him to get counseling. Which he is and is something we've been working on for months before this came about but had insurance/compatability issues. This would be so much easier if I could get inside her head and pick her brain apart. But unfortunately I can't do that.
Once she finishes this extended eval with the forensic psychologist she will begin therapy herself. Unfortunately her issues go much farther back than all of this, I just did not see how deep they were until recently. I'd had her in therapy before (about 4 years ago) and they released her saying all was well, but apparently it wasn't. I've also realized that a lot of the issues she has stem from the close relationship she has with my mom who has never been able to "let go" of her. My mom had her for 2 years in the beginning (long story-I was a stupid teenager) and though she pushed me towards straightening myself out and gettign my daughter, she has never let go of the fact that she is NOT my daughters mother and is no longer the decision maker in her life. Therefore she has a horrible tendancy to take my daughters word at face value without getting the other side of any story and advising my daughter based solely on the information/misinformation she has provided. I recently brought this up to my Mom and she says she is starting to realize that she has done that among other things.
My husband is set to take the polygraph at 11 am on Wednesday. We are also trying to work out financial barriers to her completing the forensic eval. Other than that, I have no idea where this is going, I suppose it really depends on the outcome of both of those.
Regardless of the outcomes of the investigations, there is one thing I am absolutely certain of...my daughter needs help. She needs someone to help her sort through her thoughts and emotions and hopefully the therapist she will be seeing will be able to do so.
I'll post again when we have the results of the polygraph.
I also expressed to him that I feel really bad for NOT believing her 100% and what he said made sense to me. He told me not to judge myself on what I believe or don't believe becuase I can't control that. But what I CAN control are my actions and thusfar he says I've done exactly what I need to do to protect her.
She, herself, doesn't seem very concerned about any of this. She just keeps telling everyone she doesn't want to break up the family or for him to go to jail, just for him to get counseling. Which he is and is something we've been working on for months before this came about but had insurance/compatability issues. This would be so much easier if I could get inside her head and pick her brain apart. But unfortunately I can't do that.
Once she finishes this extended eval with the forensic psychologist she will begin therapy herself. Unfortunately her issues go much farther back than all of this, I just did not see how deep they were until recently. I'd had her in therapy before (about 4 years ago) and they released her saying all was well, but apparently it wasn't. I've also realized that a lot of the issues she has stem from the close relationship she has with my mom who has never been able to "let go" of her. My mom had her for 2 years in the beginning (long story-I was a stupid teenager) and though she pushed me towards straightening myself out and gettign my daughter, she has never let go of the fact that she is NOT my daughters mother and is no longer the decision maker in her life. Therefore she has a horrible tendancy to take my daughters word at face value without getting the other side of any story and advising my daughter based solely on the information/misinformation she has provided. I recently brought this up to my Mom and she says she is starting to realize that she has done that among other things.
My husband is set to take the polygraph at 11 am on Wednesday. We are also trying to work out financial barriers to her completing the forensic eval. Other than that, I have no idea where this is going, I suppose it really depends on the outcome of both of those.
Regardless of the outcomes of the investigations, there is one thing I am absolutely certain of...my daughter needs help. She needs someone to help her sort through her thoughts and emotions and hopefully the therapist she will be seeing will be able to do so.
I'll post again when we have the results of the polygraph.
I don't know you, so I do not want you to take what I am about to type as a personal attack, just an observation, and a story.
observation: as a whole, your posts seem more concerned with feeling validated in not believing your daughter, than in finding the "truth"
If you want to find something you have to be willing to look anywhere, yet you seem unwilling to accept that there may have been interaction between your husband and your daughter that made her feel uncomfortable enough to react in the manner that she did. Perhaps you are looking far and wide for something that is right in front of you, it is just as likely she is telling what is the truth to her, as it is he is telling his truth to you.
You have said that you are aware that you will never KNOW the truth. SO why focus your emotional energy on finding the "truth" when there is no way to know you have it even if you could hold it in your hands. (see my point?)
My advice is to treat your daughter the way you would have if you had gotten to the police station and the accusation was about a teacher at school, or an older boy in the lunchroom. Stand behind her unconditionally, you brought her into this world and it is your responsibility, regardless of what she wrote in her journal and her depression and cutting, she is dependant on you for the kind of love only a mother can give, unconditional love. Treat her and talk to her about it as if she had accused a coach or similar non-family member.
That is the only way to be sure you are not letting your daughter down, or planting a seed that could grow into major body image issues, self esteem complications, difficulty building trust in relationships etc.
Again, I want you to know I am not judging you, just my opinion, and its not worth more or less than anyone elses.
Now the story:
One day a mother came to a terribly painful decision that what was best for her offspring was to move on and start from scratch, leaving behind the "offender" who introduced whatever element it was that caused the rift to develop in her family. It was difficult, and it was scary to strike out alone with no safety net, but she is now thriving.
If over time you come to the conclusion that whatever it was that did happen is too much for you to accept and that you can no longer remain in a marriage with your husband, keep in mind that mothers were able to do it before you, and mothers will keep on havin' to do it till the end of time. If that is what you have to do honey, then that is what you do.
Regardless of whatever truth your family eventually settles on, I hope that as a family, whatever that may look like for you,as a family, and as individuals, you are all able to heal from the experience and all of the ways it has changed your lives.
May the truth set you all free :)
observation: as a whole, your posts seem more concerned with feeling validated in not believing your daughter, than in finding the "truth"
If you want to find something you have to be willing to look anywhere, yet you seem unwilling to accept that there may have been interaction between your husband and your daughter that made her feel uncomfortable enough to react in the manner that she did. Perhaps you are looking far and wide for something that is right in front of you, it is just as likely she is telling what is the truth to her, as it is he is telling his truth to you.
You have said that you are aware that you will never KNOW the truth. SO why focus your emotional energy on finding the "truth" when there is no way to know you have it even if you could hold it in your hands. (see my point?)
My advice is to treat your daughter the way you would have if you had gotten to the police station and the accusation was about a teacher at school, or an older boy in the lunchroom. Stand behind her unconditionally, you brought her into this world and it is your responsibility, regardless of what she wrote in her journal and her depression and cutting, she is dependant on you for the kind of love only a mother can give, unconditional love. Treat her and talk to her about it as if she had accused a coach or similar non-family member.
That is the only way to be sure you are not letting your daughter down, or planting a seed that could grow into major body image issues, self esteem complications, difficulty building trust in relationships etc.
Again, I want you to know I am not judging you, just my opinion, and its not worth more or less than anyone elses.
Now the story:
One day a mother came to a terribly painful decision that what was best for her offspring was to move on and start from scratch, leaving behind the "offender" who introduced whatever element it was that caused the rift to develop in her family. It was difficult, and it was scary to strike out alone with no safety net, but she is now thriving.
If over time you come to the conclusion that whatever it was that did happen is too much for you to accept and that you can no longer remain in a marriage with your husband, keep in mind that mothers were able to do it before you, and mothers will keep on havin' to do it till the end of time. If that is what you have to do honey, then that is what you do.
Regardless of whatever truth your family eventually settles on, I hope that as a family, whatever that may look like for you,as a family, and as individuals, you are all able to heal from the experience and all of the ways it has changed your lives.
May the truth set you all free :)
I have no more to say... it is my opinion I put up on this forum ,thats what we do ...the expert/doctor forums are on the right of the forums page ...
Just thought I would update.
I had the first appt with the forensic psychiatrist yesterday. It was basically just me giving detailed background info on our family and on my daughter. It took 2 1/2 hours. Becuase we are doing the extended forensic evaluation they have asked that we postpone her starting with the therapist until its done which will be the end of july. I basically told him about my feelings on the situation, pretty much what i've posted here. He it's as important that I believe her story 100% as it is that I protect her and at this point that's what I'm doing. He agreed with the fact that I have eliminated any outside influence (my mom/her friend/etc) and that *I* do not discuss the allegations with her so that *I* do not influence her as well. As he put it I just need to continue doing what I need to protect her, let her know what the next steps are but not to discuss any details of anything with her. BEcuase she is an older child (14 next month) she is old enough to make her own decisions and needs to do so wtih out other influence becuase she is so easily impressionable. Her first appt with him will be next monday.
My husband has his polygraph scheduled for next wednesday (the 7th) which was the earliest the state investigator who does them had an opening. So we have that set up at this point.
RachelVaughn: I do realize there are many, many instances where a child is telling the truth and the parents ignore it. While I do NOT 100% believe her story for several reasons I also am trying very hard not to dismiss it. At this point the police and CPS are involved and we are doing everything they ask of us and we are going on their recommendations. Even though I do not believe her story in it's entirety I do realize just how easy my "gut feeling" can be wrong. I'm also not basing things on what each of them say. I dont' expect either of them to admit any wrong doing if they did any. But I have to take into consideration other factors to, such as timelines, behaviors, reactions to the different things compared with reactions they have both had when caught in a lie or deception in the past. HOPEFULLY time WILL reveal the truth.
Margypops: what words used against her here are you referring to?
I would also like to add that she has rarely been made to watch her siblings, she has always been asked and given the option of saying no. Many times she CHOOSES to stay home with them rather than go shopping or to run an errand
I'm really really hoping for her sake that my gut feeling is right and that she's made this up or exaggerated something becuase I feel it would be far less traumatic for her that way . But, if it's wrong I will be the first one to eat my words and admit I was wrong. At this point I don't have much choice but to stay on the fence and not take sides, but also to do what I need to do to protect her. Had she at any point said she was scared of him he would have been asked to stay at his fathers house. He offered, SHE said she didn't want that. It was also recommended by CPS NOT to break up the family at this point, but to simply keep the two of them from being in any circumstances where they are alone at anytime.
I know many of you may not agree and that's fine. I don't expect you to. It wouldn't be very beneficial to me if everyone agreed. I NEED to see all sides of this, all different perspectives. I'm anxious to find out what the forensic eval is going to find from a professionals point of view. I'm also anxious to see what the polygraph results hold (though I already know the accuracy of them and that they arent' admissable in court)
I had the first appt with the forensic psychiatrist yesterday. It was basically just me giving detailed background info on our family and on my daughter. It took 2 1/2 hours. Becuase we are doing the extended forensic evaluation they have asked that we postpone her starting with the therapist until its done which will be the end of july. I basically told him about my feelings on the situation, pretty much what i've posted here. He it's as important that I believe her story 100% as it is that I protect her and at this point that's what I'm doing. He agreed with the fact that I have eliminated any outside influence (my mom/her friend/etc) and that *I* do not discuss the allegations with her so that *I* do not influence her as well. As he put it I just need to continue doing what I need to protect her, let her know what the next steps are but not to discuss any details of anything with her. BEcuase she is an older child (14 next month) she is old enough to make her own decisions and needs to do so wtih out other influence becuase she is so easily impressionable. Her first appt with him will be next monday.
My husband has his polygraph scheduled for next wednesday (the 7th) which was the earliest the state investigator who does them had an opening. So we have that set up at this point.
RachelVaughn: I do realize there are many, many instances where a child is telling the truth and the parents ignore it. While I do NOT 100% believe her story for several reasons I also am trying very hard not to dismiss it. At this point the police and CPS are involved and we are doing everything they ask of us and we are going on their recommendations. Even though I do not believe her story in it's entirety I do realize just how easy my "gut feeling" can be wrong. I'm also not basing things on what each of them say. I dont' expect either of them to admit any wrong doing if they did any. But I have to take into consideration other factors to, such as timelines, behaviors, reactions to the different things compared with reactions they have both had when caught in a lie or deception in the past. HOPEFULLY time WILL reveal the truth.
Margypops: what words used against her here are you referring to?
I would also like to add that she has rarely been made to watch her siblings, she has always been asked and given the option of saying no. Many times she CHOOSES to stay home with them rather than go shopping or to run an errand
I'm really really hoping for her sake that my gut feeling is right and that she's made this up or exaggerated something becuase I feel it would be far less traumatic for her that way . But, if it's wrong I will be the first one to eat my words and admit I was wrong. At this point I don't have much choice but to stay on the fence and not take sides, but also to do what I need to do to protect her. Had she at any point said she was scared of him he would have been asked to stay at his fathers house. He offered, SHE said she didn't want that. It was also recommended by CPS NOT to break up the family at this point, but to simply keep the two of them from being in any circumstances where they are alone at anytime.
I know many of you may not agree and that's fine. I don't expect you to. It wouldn't be very beneficial to me if everyone agreed. I NEED to see all sides of this, all different perspectives. I'm anxious to find out what the forensic eval is going to find from a professionals point of view. I'm also anxious to see what the polygraph results hold (though I already know the accuracy of them and that they arent' admissable in court)
I have always been inclined to believe a child ,I think more are abused than we know ,the statistics of them making it up and lying may tell us something, it will be a good thing when the truth comes out.,I hope she can get some help whatever the conclusion, its obvious she is unhappy with her home life ., Many children who have to look after younger siblings feel some jealousy and resentment and some of the words used against her here are not fair...
CAN I SAY SOMETHING-
My step dad molested me for 5 years- I too told my mom and she kept dusting it under the rug. I never journal ed it and my mother attributed my behaviors to the divorce my parents had. Still to this day (im 25) she asks me questions like, "Why dont you want Robert to watch your daughter" Isnt it self explanatory. Of course he wont admitt it!
My step dad molested me for 5 years- I too told my mom and she kept dusting it under the rug. I never journal ed it and my mother attributed my behaviors to the divorce my parents had. Still to this day (im 25) she asks me questions like, "Why dont you want Robert to watch your daughter" Isnt it self explanatory. Of course he wont admitt it!
All that matters is the truth coming out if it can and your daughter getting all the help she needs,I wasn't accusing you of lying,I was just stating the facts,we are only hearing one side of this,Good Luck and I hope you get to the bottom of this and everything works out fine.
Denise
Denise
BTW, DH has scheduled an appt with the psychiatrist that he had started to see at the beginning of the year but had to stop due to insurance issues. So he will start his counseling on Wednesday.
I appreciate your comments, but I have no reason to lie, especially on here to a bunch of people I don't know. I came here for some support and to get others opinions (which you have provided) not to make up crap about my own child.
I appreciate those of you who have given me your opinions on the various things I have posted.
I would like to clarify something about the towel incident since it's been mentioned by a couple of you. As I said before, she went from her bedroom to bathroom and vice versa wearing the towel. The two are side by side so it's not like she paraded around the house that way. But in my mind, I thought it was odd, had I been in that situation I think I would have felt too violated to be so exposed even for a few seconds if I could help it. THAT was my point.
I'm not asking ya'll to be judge and jury on this. But it really helps me to see all sides of a situation, not just my own, when hearing what other people take from the facts involved. It gives me a better perspective of what is going on and how I should proceed.
I agree she needs help and I'm counting down the days until her first appt Tuesday,.
I appreciate those of you who have given me your opinions on the various things I have posted.
I would like to clarify something about the towel incident since it's been mentioned by a couple of you. As I said before, she went from her bedroom to bathroom and vice versa wearing the towel. The two are side by side so it's not like she paraded around the house that way. But in my mind, I thought it was odd, had I been in that situation I think I would have felt too violated to be so exposed even for a few seconds if I could help it. THAT was my point.
I'm not asking ya'll to be judge and jury on this. But it really helps me to see all sides of a situation, not just my own, when hearing what other people take from the facts involved. It gives me a better perspective of what is going on and how I should proceed.
I agree she needs help and I'm counting down the days until her first appt Tuesday,.
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