RE: Overreacting? What are the signs?

[momn]

I must thank everyone for their feedback, and ask for some more advise.

When I 1st posted this question, I was unsure of the situation and/or if I was over reacting. I chose to keep my son in the daycare as the director assured my that my son was safe. She assured me that she was monitering all staff and that it would be almost impossible for abuse of any kind to take place. She also said that if there were times that _____ (the teacher in question) was alone with the children, my son would be transfered to another room. I was not completely comfortable with this but, I want to believe that I am wrong.

At dinner,Two nights ago, my son told me that _____ gives him lots of kisses when he is good. He said this out of the blue. I asked him where, and he pointed to his cheek and said here. Then he said "and here" as he pointed to his lips, his neck, his back , his inner thighs and his knees.This alarmed me, but I remained calm. I told him that he was a good boy and that "teacher" should not be kissing him there. My son got upset and said that ____ was his friend and is allowed to give him kisses. He also said that he liked to give _____ kisses too. Later that night, when I was trying to put my son to sleep, he started giving me small kisses on my arm. He said "say please and I'll do it again". I ased him "Want to you want me to say please for?" For more kisses he said!

I found this very disturbing! My son and I always give eacher hugs and kisses, but not in this manner, nor would he ever have to say please for my affection! I asked him who says this to him and he said _____! The next day I spoke with the daycare director. I remained very calm as I told her what happened. She got upset and told me that she could not believe this. I said that is not something that I am prepared to deal with, so please "tell me that I'm wrong"! I said that the last time we spoke about this I decided to keep my son in the daycare, but now I understandably am too uncomfortable with the situtation. She said that she would make sure that my son was not alone with _____  until I found a replacement daycare.

When I had expressed my concerns the last time I stated that I was not making any accusations, I only had concerns. Like I said, she told me that all of the other parents love ____.  I just find it very hard to believe that my son would make these things up. He is only 3 years old!

So now again, she told me this and that I am the only one complaining. She said that after speaking with _____ and another staff member, she discovered that my son was the one that was expressing odd behavior towards _____! I told her that I would be removing my son from the daycare as soon as I could. I also said that as the director of the daycare she should welcome all parent concerns and investigate them.  When I picked my son up today from daycare she gave me a letter stating that she has addressed my concerns and has accepted my notice of termination, and that my son would no longer be attending as of Sept.28th/07.

I am removing my son from the daycare center anyway, but I am angry with this situtation. I feel that my child means nothing to them! These are the people that my son trusts and relies on every day. Daycares play a huge part in the development of all children in their care. My son is with these care givers 5 days a week! So nobody else has a problem with this person, does this mean that we just ignore it? Could my 3 year old just be making all of this up? I don't believe that at 3 he even understands what is going on! Is it possible that this is commonly dismissed. Do I just let this go now?

I find it very hard to deal with the fact that I can not protect my child at all times. IWhat happens if another parent has the same concerns down the road? Has anybody been through a similar situation?

[margypops]

Sorry this is well over 2 years old , they may not answer you ,

[BB365]

You are absolutely correct to follow your instincts and remove your child and REPORT the situation. A child WOULD NOT make this up. Something is going on and I would not be surprised if they hired a child predator by accident - it happens more than you would think. Denial is a very strong emotion and they don't 'WANT' to admit it or think it. No one does. But always, always, always believe the child. Kids don't make this stuff up.

Report the incident to the local child safety authorities and the BBB. They did not investigate the situation properly and that is poor business for a daycare.

Good luck and good for you for protecting your child and getting them out of there.

[pmsobx]

Oh Are you the teacher in question??    What if it is NOT the mind of a 3 year old?  Yes she made her complaint -but to whom?  The abuser? And what are they going to do about it?  Say - WOW almost got caught!  Glad she moved on and didn't destroy my life!!  Nobody is 'attacking you or anyone"  they are just protecting their children and the children of others. Wish there could be more parents like momn.

Also if you read a little closer....yes he mentioned the TEACHER gave him kisses!

[kjbutcher]

sorry I did miss the thigh kissing.  I was talking about kissing up the arm.  my examples are of a different nature, however they do show the mind of a 3 year old.  What if he hit his thigh on a toy and another child kissed his boo boo.  I never said for her to leave her kid there.  You should always trust your own kid.  Im sorry that you got beat for telling your parents.  I never told her to accuse her child or beat her child or leave her child in a potentially dangerous environment.  It is just really scary to be in the same profession and to hear people so willing to destroy a persons life.  What if it is just the mind of a 3 year old?   She made her complaint, she protected her child, now move on, but be willing to help if the time ever comes.  I dont think that attacking me and my profession is necessary.  I dont kiss thighs!  

[Curls]

I'm thinking of the redflags being obvious.  Also that kjbutcher's examples are of a different nature and she shouldn't be in daycare if this thigh kissing stuff doesn't alarm her enough to suggest follow through.

I'm so sorry you experienced what you did.  It was many years ago, and parents were so much less aware of how to understand these things.  And some parents just don't want to face what they'd have to feel if they fully acknowledged it.  It's so sad and frustrating.  

[Curls]

I was thinking the same thing, but didn't get time to post it.  Thanks for saying it.  

[pmsobx]

One more comment for KJBUTCHER--you stated that "What he was doing to you with the kisses could be something one of the other kids does with their parents."  Why are kids and parents kissing each other in the thigh area??  If you don't see a bid REDFLAG there, then You shouldn't be in daycare!!!  Learn the warning signs.  We are no talking about banging knees into the wall or slamming fingers in a book!  Yes its good to keep records of these little accidents. But we are on a much bigger scale now!!  


momn:  another thing to think about, if it was your son using abnormal behavior, then why didn't they come to you first???  Took awhile for them to make that one up?

[pmsobx]

Of course any "daycare" won't want you to persue it any further!!!  REDFLAG!!! REDFLAG!!!!  KJBUTCHER you don't read very close!!!  A three year old talking about a teacher giving him kisses in the thigh area??? REDFLAG!!!!!!!!!!   How many other children does  this have to happen to before it stops?  Daycares have a way with kids.  First they show the children that you can trust them and then things happen and they tell them its ok.  And the child doesnt know any better.
I was abused in a daycare when I was only 7.  Of course I told my parents and they talked to my daycare provider and the daycare assured my parents that it was ME doing it!!!  Oh YA Boy did I get a beating!!!!!  So I had to go to that daycare and the abuse continued.  The abuse got worse!  When my mom discovered "blood" on my underwear--well of course she got concerned. Finally 1 1/2 years after the first time I was abused , she actually started to believe me.  Of course then I was well versed in sex and knew more than her!!!  Of course she took me out. But some of my friends were still there.  She never pursued it any further.  I have always wondered how many children went through the same thing as me there?  This was in 1967-1968.   Yes God gave you instincts!!  Follow them!!!

[kjbutcher]

Although removing your child from care was the right thing to do, I dont think you should take it any further.  You have to protect your child and use your instincts, however you could ruin someones whole life based on the active mind of a 3 year old.  What he was doing to you with the kisses could be something one of the other kids does with their parents and the child did it to your son.  I have a daycare and i see some of this all of the time.  A three year old girl walked through my door and hit her knee and turned around and said mommy just hurt my knee, knowing full right well she just banged it on the door.  If it would have gone the other way...miss kelly hurt my knee and her mom was not right there and she filed a complaint i could be in jail right now.  Same thing happened a month ago...both 3 year olds.  Child a slammed child b's hand in a book.  Child a (the one who did the slamming) went home and told her mom that I slammed her hand in the book.  She took her out of my care,  Thank goodness I record my day so i would have had proof if it went any further but with out that again, I could be in jail.  I would stick with the complaint with the center so they have records if it happens again.  The employee may be protected right now but if it happens again, the daycare center will not risk he liability and they will take the proper steps.  I would also keep notes of everything that you notice so if it does ever come up again, you can help take her off the daycare scene.  

[Curls]

What's so disconcerting about this is that a daycare supervisor would use "only one complainting" as a way to dismiss this.  A pediphile may choose to groom only one child at a time.  Or it may not have come up yet with another child and their parent - it's not a question a parent would think to ask their 3 year old kid...did anyone kiss you on your thigh today?  Special attention to one child is a common grooming technique!  Geez.  Blaming a child for odd behavior is exactly tail-backwards.  Since when is a 3 year old in charge and an adult the victim of them?  Blaming the kid for their interest in the adult is a classic element of abuse and the director is participating in it rather than protecting your child.  A 3 year old can make up an invisible friend, but not a new behavior pattern that had to be learned from someplace.  I can see a child inventing saying please for kisses, but in the whole context there are a bunch of new pattern that could only be learned...  And what is a daycare worker doing so much kissing of a child for?  And of course everyone likes him and thinks he's special.  He works very hard to be that way if he's a *********.  

Also, the director is passively getting you to feel angry and avoiding the situation with her dimissal letter.  Maybe she has some abuse in her own background that's not worked out, or simply has zero training in what to look for.  Or is "protecting" her daycare above all else.  She scares me - she's dangerous.  

I hope you find the energy and time to take it upon yourself to report her and him to any government child care and business watch groups you can think of.  Just the facts and your concerns of course, but sooner or later someone will recognize this for what it is.

Also, asking of other parents if their children are also doing this may be a way to plant the seed a little wider and make them aware.  You don't want to acuse someone "innocent" (until proven guilty) so direct acusations expressed to other parents would be a bad idea.  However, definitely parents can talk to each other calmly and unacusedly and in low-key ways.

It is impossible to keep your child safe at all times.  However, if you teach them that they are in charge of their body and you also talk with them easily from a young age about all their concerns (no matter how simple sounding or odd they are to an adult)...   My friend in a crime victims advocacy job (a g'vnt position) believes from her training that these can make a big difference in making your child a not very appealing target to a *********.  Your son is obviously very comfortable talking with you, and so you are off to an excellent start.  You did well with this tough situation.  Congratulations.

To answer your question of whether it's possible for this to be commonly dismissed.  Unfortunately yes.  That's exactly why so much child abuse is able to happen, and also adult abuse.  Think about the pickle the church is in - and that's just one place that routinely ignored the obvious and didn't protect their kids.  Things are changing, but it's a very slow change to happen.

[layne2000]

I strongly believe you  have done the right thing by removing your son and also beg you to report this matter to some governing body.
As said above, this should not be swept under the carpet and needs to be investigated.
(Another child could be a risk)

A three year old would not talk in this way. Believe what he tells you. The fact that he is a child doesn't come into it.
Adults are more capable of lying than a 3 year old.
Please believe me.
Layne posting... from very bitter experience.
(Believe the child). xx

[koukla29]

I would file a complaint with the better business beareu.  I would also call the department of children and families and/or the abuse hotline in your state and report the situation.  If nothing else, you have just opened the way and created a file on this person.  You are right, this is NOT something to sweep under the carpet.  In addition, I have a hard time believing that a 3 year old made up  game like that.  Also, no teacher should be kissing your child.  Affection should be in the form of praise and an occasional hug or pat on the back type of thing.  Report that daycare!

[AHP84]

You're right to get your son out of that daycare; his behavior is alarming and disturbing. I too believe a 3 y/o does not have the mental or emotional understanding to act out the affections like your son has started to show towards you unless they have been taught that behavior.
It's clear the daycare doesn't believe your concerns as they have claimed there haven't been any other complaints, so I doubt they'll do anything until something else happens to another child. If I were you, I'd look into a background check on this guy by a private investigator and/or report the daycare to social services. However, I'm not very fond of social services, as I've dealt with them in the past in my parent's divorce situation, and I think they're completely worthless until something bad happens, then all of a sudden they care when it's too late.
But please do something to further the investigation on this guy. Other children are now potential victims. I said it before and I'll say it again--I think it's just plain weird for a *toddler* daycare to hire a male to be a primary caregiver. Did you ever ask them if they do background checks on the people they hire? If they don't, I wouldn't be surprised it they actually did unknowingly hire a pedofile. Scary.

So yes, keep your hackles up and teeth bared and don't just let this go. In my opinion.