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appropriate age for girls

what age is the appropriate age for a father to stop picking up his daughter and letting her wrap her legs around his waist while they hug and kiss each other on the lips?
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13017155 tn?1429020488
Hi,

I definitely see your concern. Im a Mom of 4 which are 2 boys and 2 girls. My 3 oldest kids are not affectionate like my 5 year. Hes the younger of them all. He will grab my neck and give me a quick peck on the lips. If it looks innocent and feels innocent.. then it is. If it looks wrong and feels wrong, then it is.
The caressing or fondling is absolutely without a doubt inappropriate!
My girls when they were younger (between 3-11) would pretend they were in a fashion show and dress in many different outfits of anyones in our house. We would all sit on the couch and watch their "show". It was completely innocent.
Like I said.. go with your gut feelings. Your feelings dont lie!! If it looks and feels wrong, then it is wrong. Dont get me wrong, im not by any means saying your loved one is a pedophile. Maybe he was raised to show love & affection this way so therefore thinks its the only way. Try sitting down with him again..Tell him this is causing you to be very upset and that you had questions to be answered so you did seek advice on how to love your child.That what hes doing with his daughter is indeed inappropriate behavior. A peck on the lips in one thing.. but caressing and fondling is not to be done. Say to him that it makes you very uncomfortable while hes been showing his daughter that same kind affection he shows you "his girlfriend/lover". Tell him it has to stop or your going to take further action and that could mean you leaving or seeking family counseling etc.. you coukd even show him these comments here. Totally your call. Wish you the best of luck!  Keep us posted. :)
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Avatar universal
I know this is soo late but how are u doing now?
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Avatar universal
wow Kav you hit the nail on the head with what you said. Avoiding confrontation or stringing me along is right. I know for a fact he avoids confrontation. He is very passive and just agrees to avoid disagreeing, except on this point. Thank you for the nice things you said.
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Avatar universal
No losing someone you love is never easy, even when they do horrific things (I am not saying this guy did)  we still feel how we feel. I have no answers for moving on that make the pain stop quickly. I would cut all ties with him, I don't know if anyone who switches gears over an issue like this can be friends.
In my opinion, and it's just that, telling someone I love you but we need to just be friends is taking the cowards way out to avoid confrontation or is stringing you along.
You deserve better.
Remember feeling are not facts and we can work through the pain and get to the silver lining, sometimes it takes therapy.
You deserve a PARTNER who does not make you feel dirty, to me that isn't a red flag its a fire screaming RUN!
For me I have found it helps to give myself a set time and day to be done grieving.  If I don't I can wallow and make things so much worse then where they began.

If this "tween" was still a young child this father would get all kinds of latitude of what was ok to be doing but she isn't and I fear there is more to this story then even you know.

Keep talking and working through it, you will find peace someway or another and only you know how to take care of you. This will teach your son a valuable lesson and he will be a better man for it.  This is a hard road to walk but one you will be better walking through it.
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Avatar universal
Thank you Kav for your response. I see what you are saying, but it doesn't make it hurt any less. We were the loves of each other's lives. But he has chose to part from me because of my conflict with his child. He says he loves me, but feels we need to be friends. I completely agree with you about putting his daughter on the back burner and having an adult relationship with a woman. He had the adult relationship with me at night, but spent the days being affectionate to her. I would feel kind of dirty. Yes his other daughters are older, by 2, 5, and 7 years, but they say nothing about it. They usually turn a blind eye to things. He gives all of them hugs from a standing position and kisses on the cheek, except her. I just felt at her age it should be the same as the other girls. If she were 5 or younger I would think differently. I don't guess it matters anymore now that he has thrown away our relationship like it meant nothing. I just want to know how to stop hurting and move on now. Any suggestions?
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Avatar universal
I know I am jumping in very late but wanted to comment that you are VERY right to be concerned. Another red flag that I see is if he did not know this was "ok" he would be doing what he is doing with all his children.  That is one of the many many flags I see.
If your gut gave you a warning it's for a reason.
Second chances do happen for a reason but it might not be the reason you think. We don't often know or see things clearly while in the midst of the situation, and we are often blinded by what we see as "love" and try to change or get others to change to fit the love we feel.
Not only do you see it your son has questioned it and you have the responsibility to ensure his safety, both physical and emotional, and teach him how to have healthy adult relationships and respect women, I am not sure this boyfriend is a good example.
The only way these children (all of them) are going to learn boundaries and healthy relationship skills is to see them modeled in the adults closest to them and that would mean this guy would have to put this child on the back burner (so to speak) and connect with a woman and he does not seem willing to do so.
Are his other daughters older or younger then the one you wrote about, and how do they act when this is all going on?
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Avatar universal
Thank you dazon50 for such kind words. I only did what I thought was the right thing to do for his daughter and for him. He just didn't see it that way, but has changed and toned down his affection now. There is love and has been since our high school sweet heart days. I just hope he realizes that. I like how you put it. Thank you for giving me sound judgment/ advice.
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Avatar universal
I admire your approach.  You were willing to face this sensibly and do what needed to be done, even at the expense of risking the relationship.  I think you just summed it up as to how it could be....if there is love, it will still be there when the dust settles and he comes through his taking time to think.  Love freely given is worth the wait.

He may feel embarassed for all I know and need to regroup to get his thinking straightened out & decided what he truly values.

Thank you for sharing like you did.  Learning goes out in all directions :-)))
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Avatar universal
Dazon50, thank you so much for your kind words of concern and for the informative site. I believe like you said he was unaware of his actions and how they were being perceived. The fact that he has stopped makes me think he has taken notice of my concern with his awareness. As of now he has told me he misses me, but he has turned his heart off to me because it hurts him so much and he needs some time and space to think. I'm just afraid the time and space will move him further away, but the old saying is that if you let something go, and it returns to you, then it was meant to be. I am hoping he will return because he knows, like I do, it is meant to be. You rarely get a second chance at a first love and I believe second chances happen for reasons.
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Avatar universal
This will get you started with looking over what is out there on the subject.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=ie7&q=emotional+incest&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7TSNA_en___US365

The thing is that some people are unaware that their actions can be mistaken for meaning something else, so it is best to be aware and make an informed decision as to where to go with it.

Giving a peck on the cheeks or quick kiss on lips as a greeting is one thing but the lingering and plenty and straying to other things is what makes it appear more than just parental affection.

My heart goes out to you and you are being courageous in speaking up, risking the relationship for your values, etc.  Standing firm in the face of opposition is not always easy for any of us, but in the end, we are glad for it.

Please keep us posted.  We care :-)
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Avatar universal
Thank you margypops for your help. I believe what happens is for a reason and if its meant to be it will be. Dazon 50, I have not heard of emotional incest. What is that all about? Thank you for validating my concerns. As for his background, his mom wished I was her daughter when we were in highschool because she miscarried her girls and only had him. she does not show emotion often. His dad was very compassionate but he died a few years back. His ex cheated the last 3 years while he tried to keep things together and she is a fluzzy around the kids. She ended the marraige and took all his rights. he fell for her lies about getting back with him so she could have full rights to the kids and when I was with him I got an attorney and redid the papers so he could get his rights and got her to agree to terms that benifitted him. I put alot of effort into this relationship. The child looks like him and the others look like her. I will answer any more questions you have that I can. Thanks for your help.
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Avatar universal
I am going to throw in my two cents worth here and say that I would be disturbed by what you are describing.  Boundaries are important and the examples set are lasting.

http://www.theginblog.com/2007/11/butterfly-kisses-do-you-consider-it-inappropriate-for-a-father-to-kiss-his-daughter-on-the-lips/

Lingering too long or doing too much of something like that seems inappropriate, also wearing tight fitting undershorts and leaving the door open.  Seems like you have red flags popping up.

I wonder what his background is that this is acceptable to him?  Do you know how he was raised?  The thing about us not knowing any of these facts or him, leaves me wondering about his relationship with his ex.  Was it his choice to end the marriage?  Does this child resemble her more or less than the others?  I didn't want to read more into his behavior but it brings up a number of questions.  I have read about emotional incest before as well as other direct types of  behaviors.

A concern (red flag) is the way he is reacting to this.  Pushing you away or distancing you when you are showing concern for his daughter is strange.  Your view is valid.  I hope also that you are able to work things out for the best for all.  I believe you are right to be concerned.
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535822 tn?1443976780
He may be considering that he is losing you unless he changes the way he allows his daughter to behave maybe its a matter of how much he wants to be with you, after all you are not saying he wont see his daughhter but just that the behavior be toned down to fit in with both of you .Maybe let it be for a short while and see what happens ,remember he has to be careful not to make his daughter upset to extremes as she is used to a lot of affection if he does what you are asking he will have to start to put her down and not allow the behavior thats not going to be easy..Good luck i hope it works out ....
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Avatar universal
He has also been short with his words when texting, as if he has turned cold. He told me he had to think with his head and not his heart because it was too painful right now. I'm not quite understanding what he is thinking, but it's conflicting to me...
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Avatar universal
Yes he and I have had some extensive talks about things and he has changed his behavior, but he is also talking to an "old friend" right now at the same time and talking to me less, but telling me he wants noone else.His actions are contradicting his words. He has asked for time, a break from dating, but has said he is analyzing the situation. I'm not sure how it is going to turn out...
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535822 tn?1443976780
He would if he wanted to , he doesnt want to change his ways he wants you to accept it, you cant so there fore you both move on , it is sad, have you heard from him since he called you , maybe you are going to have to let go,let some time go by ..I didnt mean it was a color thing I meant that if he was from a latin or south American culture they are more demonstrative and its hard sometimes to understand it ...
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Avatar universal
Margypops, he is just as country white boy as can be so it's not culture, but I hear you. I'm still heartbroken because we already had our future planned out. I had a ring and we were going to commit soon. My world just shattered in seconds and all I have done is cry. I'm not sure how to move on from the love of my life. I know what he was doing was not normal to me, but was I right to call him out on it? Rockrose, thanks for the best wishes. My son hasn't found out yet, but I know when he finds out he will be devistated. Neither of us want to tell him, or his kids. I think he has seen it to an extent, but just denies it. I just don't understand why he wants to throw away our relationship over something that can be managed differently.
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13167 tn?1327194124
milehighguy,  this is so sad.  : (   I'm really sorry that your son lost out in this.  

But I really don't think I could sit in the room while she dances for him.  I can't imagine that he doesn't see it - especially since he has other daughters who apparently have a more normal relationship with him.  

Best wishes.
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535822 tn?1443976780
Its good that the relationship is over as he may not chamge ,he has said he doesnt want to , so its best to move on, it may seem over the top to us but some cultures are like that , I see it amongst Latin folks where I live, so if it makes you uncomfortable best not to be around it ...
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Avatar universal
Narla, we have been together almost a year and I have seen him do that a few times, not always. He broke it off with me today over the phone at work so it won't be an issue anymore. Thanks for your help though, but now I'm heart broken.  My son begged him not to and I feel so bad for my son now. Lisi251, no it's not strange to kiss your child and I'm really sorry to hear about your past experience. I hope you are doing ok now.
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Avatar universal
I understand what you are saying & do find it very disturbing.At the same time just wanted to make sure that everyone did not feel it was strange to kiss your child.
I will be the first one to look out for any strange behavior around children being that I was molested as a child from 5 years old until I was 9.
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1032715 tn?1315984234
You have said your son thinks of him as a stepfather,how long have you been together?and has he always been this way towards his daughter?I assumed it was a fairly new relationship.But no you can't change him so don't even try.

Denise
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Avatar universal
You are right, my son does not need that type of confusion in his pubescent stage of life. However, he feels this guy is like a stepfather to him and he loves him, and knows I do too. This is really hard. Am i asking too much of him to ask him to change his behavior or I can't stay in this relationship? I hate ultimatums, but how else can this be resolved? I'm torn...
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1032715 tn?1315984234
You've said it yourself you can't be comfortable with this,you don't want to live the rest of your life being uncomfortable,he won't change especially if he thinks there is nothing wrong with the behaviours,You really don't have much choice,and no you are not wrong,also your son is important,I'd be worried in case she started to flirt with him.He doesn't need this this type of confusion when he is going through adolescence,My personal opinion,I'd leave.

Denise  
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