Addiction: Living with an Addict Community
Any parents of heroin addicts here?
About This Community:

WELCOME TO THE ADDICTION: LIVING WITH AN ADDICT COMMUNITY. This patient support community is for family members and loved ones of people who are substance abuse addicts. Discussions cover how to help your loved one, enabling, coping with the emotional impact of addiction, intervention, and when to seek medical help. If you are not a family member of a substance abuse addict and instead need help with your addiction, please visit our Addiction: Substance Abuse Community to get the support you need.

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1530493_tn?1410060236
Look at YOU !!!!
You want to give back ?  
You just did :) !!!
Your words above...will surely be words of encouragement to many just beginning this journey.
I want to be the first to say...I wish I could have done it like you :)
Great job mom
Stay close !!
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Avatar_f_tn
My Son came home 2 days ago. He will be leaving to go to a Sober House on Monday. He will be in the next town over, he was going to go to South Carolina but he has too many court cases that need to be settled here. This makes me nervous being so close to here. Today I saw a car pull up the driveway of course I went to see who it was , when I opened the door I saw 2 of my sons friends get out who I know are on drugs. I was furious I told them to turn around get back in there car and don't ever come back and if I ever see them here or  around here again I wont think twice about calling the cops and telling exactly why I don't want you guys around. my son came out asking who I was yelling at and when he saw he asked me to stop yelling they just wanted to say hello. I told him too bad and if he didn't like it he was welcome to get in their car and take off too. Thankfully he went back in the house. I told him I am here for you I will take you to your court hearings I will drive you to work I will do everything I can to help you stay Sober but if I see or hear that you are hanging with any of your old friends all help of any sort will stop I am not going to play part in this revolving circle any more. He said I don't want to go back there I just feel like a child when you yell at my friends like that. I told him the reason programs work so well for you is the constant structure and keeping you away from some bad influences someone there  to keep reminding you what your goals are and why you wanted to get sober in the first place. I realize now that ,that can't stop just because you are home. So now I will continue where they left off. I am not doing this to control you Im doing this because I love you!! He had no reply and I left it at that. hoping everyday will get a little bit easier for him and me.
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1530493_tn?1410060236
Hi...

Its good to see you here, you've been in my thoughts.
One more day to get through, tomorrow you'll find a sense of peace again.

How long is the plan for the sobriety house ?

We shouldn't have to "babysit" our adult children, but in this situation...right now, that's exactly what you'll need to do... its very important.  

Would have been ideal for him to be released right to the sobriety home...sometimes I just don't get the reasoning behind how things are done.
Keep him close, and beware, they tend to learn many tricks and "codes" that we miss.
You did the right thing, by chasing off the "friends"
Its Your home Your property Your son.  You have every right to chase them off, Id have done the same.  
In fact I have many times, I also took my sons phone and intercepted all contacts.  
I was my sons shadow when we went a few days from a detox to a rehab.  
Your son is SO vulnerable right now.  
Those "friends" are the last people he needs to see or communicate with in any way, you clearly know that, he doesn't get it yet.
He's going to need to learn how to cut the cord with them.

YOU are in control now of his every move, until tomorrow, do not in any way let him make you feel guilty, for not letting him do something or talk to someone.
Chances are most of his contacts are not the people that should be in his life right now.

What a STRONG woman you've become...don't you lose your focus
Your comment, while I know it was hard to say "if you don't like it get in the car and leave with them"...well you know where it went...He HEARD you.

Great Job Mom...keep doing what your doing, let him do the rest !!

Keep me update and HUGS to you :)
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Avatar_f_tn
Wow! After reading I am not alone! My life with my daughter for years have been so horrible. There are too many bad situations to even go into! I can't get her help and place after place turns us away! Her friend died two weeks ago of an over dose and her boyfriend had to be revived a month ago. If she would of been to frightened to take him to the hospitial, because of a fear of arrest he would have died. We'll he is in jail now and her life has become far worse instead of better. She does anything and everything to get what she needs for this addiction! I don't understand why instead of choosing a happy life and me who she claims to love more than anything in the world, that she would steal, lie and break my heart everytime! I am going loose my baby and I think I might not be able to climb out of this hole I am in.
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1530493_tn?1410060236
Awww honey.  
First of all, I want to tell you she does love you as much as she claims, she isn't doing this "to" you.  
Its the drug doing it to her.
They find themselves in a spot that they don't know how to get out of, its a vicious circle.
Im assuming heroin ?
Your not alone....
Were here to help in any way we can.
Sometimes just writing it out can ease your pain some.
All of us here are/ were in the same spot as you...we understand.

Has she expressed the desire to get clean ?
Until she has...all you can do is learn how to put you first, and try to distance yourself.
You need to take care of you...she will pull you low.

I found myself in the same situation as far as finding help, seemed to be near non existent, unless court ordered.  My son was court ordered many times also jailed many times, while he stayed clean when he was forced to, it only lasted until he was free.
He had to be ready to let it go, he was a severe IV heroin addict...It took my son to hit his lowest low, to even begin to think about changing his life, but he did.

There is ALWAYS hope, she needs to find her reason, you cant find it for her.
It IS doable

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Avatar_m_tn
My daughter graduated high school and left Alaska and headed for Flagstaff for college.  She was only there a short time when she couldn't handle the workload.  She then switched to beauty school.  Things were perfect for about 5 months. We just got a call from her that her boyfriend was becoming violent and she needs to come home.  We suspected she was doing drugs as we could see her trying to stay awake while we face timed with her. My wife flew to Flagstaff only to find that it was a lie.  Her boyfriend was not the problem. She was doing Heroin and crack and had nearly overdosed.  She was with some people using and found herself 2 days later in her own apartment (not where she was using) with needles around her and no one there.  They had brought her there and left her...it scared her. Once my wife arrived at her place, she had changed her mind about coming home. She did not want to leave Flagstaff.  I wanted her to get away from the people that were doing this with her.  I told her that she could stay but that I will not be funding any of it.  I will not help her unless she came home.  She was very angry but did eventually (2 days later) agree and her mom brought her home. She recovered from the agonizing painful detox and has now not used for 2 weeks as far as we can tell. She is incredibly angry and is insisting that we "send" her home to Flagstaff because that is the only place she can be happy.  I've told her that I cannot and will not buy her a ticket back there. We have discussed her going to rehab but she will have no part of it.  She insists that she can do this on her own.  She says that waking up like she did was enough that she "never" wants to go back to that.  I've tried to show her all of the things that I've learned about this addiction and that it WILL take extra help to beat it!  She is insistent that she can do it alone.  She now has a goal to get a job so that sshe can earn the money for a ticket back there.  She has asked her boyfriend for the money but he wont give it to her.  He is not using nor ever has and supports what we are trying to do.
So now the questions.  She says that she was doing crack for a couple of months and only doing heroin for a week. I know this is not true because in the throws of pain of detox she said that she has been doing crack for a long time and heroin for a few months.  That would make more sense with the symptoms we saw.  She said she was using 3 or 4 times a day.  Is there any chance she can beat this on her own?  Does the short amount of time she was doing it help her at all? I'm struggling with the fact that it may come down to me making her leave my house and possibly never hearing from her again or worse. I can hardly breath from the stress of it all.  My worst fear is that she disappears into the streets some where. She is a beautiful, naive girl who grew up in very small Alaska town.  She has no street sense.  I have read MANY posts on here and am so grateful for those of you telling your stories.  I have never dealt with this or known anyone who has...I did not know where to turn.  Losing my baby girl is a thought that causes me to bawl my eyes out in the shower every morning.  Thanks for letting me share.
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Avatar_m_tn
I forgot to add that she is 19 and began using by snoting theen smoking and finally injecting.  According to her she only injected a couple of times.
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1530493_tn?1410060236
You made me cry...I know your story OH so well.

I will offer you my support, my opinions and my experience.

Your heart and your gut feelings will fight each other...right now...Im going to ask you to follow your gut instincts.
I know how much you love your daughter, your going to need to learn how to love her in a different way until shes ready to let go.
Nothing about this will be easy to hear, Its just as hard for me to tell you.  Without honesty, there is no help
Shes playing with the devil...heroin and crack have opposite effects on her body.  Im not sure if the length of use has much of an overall effect as to her being able to let it go any eaiser.  
My son also IV heroin his main DOC, but would shoot up any thing... told me, it only took a few times of using heroin before it owned him.  
It has no mercy.
Before we go any farther, I need you to know...my son IS clean near 2 years...there is hope, and more than many know.  

Find as much support for you, your family as you can and do this together as a family...many told me meetings,  I did it with one person that I attached too.  
A lot of times we cant give answers, but we can be there.  Writing it, getting it out to others that understand I believe helps to heal you.  

I could write so much, but we'll go slow, if questions come to mind ...please ask.

To answer what you've asked, now this is my experience...can she come off alone ??  I heard it many times from my son "ive got this"  he couldn't and in the end, he needed suboxone to help.  
There are several approaches to maintenance.  Suboxone seemed to be what worked for him.  But she needs to be ready to except the help.
It is one drug replacing another also told its harder to withdraw from.  
The way I look at it...I would rather have him on subs for life than he going back to his old ways.
He tried suboxone several times, the only time it worked was when he hit his lowest low, and was ready to surrender.

As much as we want to do this for them...we just cant, its a journey only they can take.

My son Watched friends OD...die...it wasn't enough to make him stop.  Kind of gives you an Idea.
Shes detoxed and very vulnerable now.
Your doing the right thing by not sending her back to Flagstaff, but you cant watch her 24/7.

The main things you need to learn and will be forced to learn.
Is fully support her recovery if she so chooses, if she doesn't, you need to be able to distance yourself from her, I know the thought is heartbreaking, you will hear "we can and will love them to death" those are straight honest words.  She needs to know you will NOT support her addict in ANY way.
Enable...goes hand in hand with the above.  I had a hard time understanding enable, until the end.  Enable in our situation was just the presents of my life in his.  He still had a bit of a cushion...me, he knew or I should say thought I would never give up on him.
I didn't...I just became to numb to watch what he was doing to himself.
I tried everything...all I had left was to let him go.

When my attitude changed toward his addiction, so did his.

I feel your pain in your words...I cant imagine how much harder it has to be with a daughter.

This is so hard to say to you...
My sons comfort zone was his home, as long as he had that he addiction only intensified.

Im here for you as many others will be too
Saying a Prayer for you and your daughter
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Avatar_f_tn
I would also like to say I am truly sorry you are facing this as well. I like to come on here and post my thoughts and what I am going through it truly helps me . I also like to update Deb179 as she has been a great support for me. I have a 19 yr old son who is an addict and like your daughter he is in the beginning stages of recovery. twice before my son had gone to a detox and when he came home he would say to me mom all I needed was to get it out of my system he would go on to say I don't like heroin I don't ever want to go back I just needed to get it out of my system so I don't crave it now that I have I am good I never want to see the stuff again. Twice I fell for that.. I wanted to believe...well I did believe I should say that my sons addiction wasn't as bad as everyone elses that this is just a young kid who made a bad choice and we are going to move on and put this all behind. Boy was I in Denial !!! It wasn't until I found this post that I realized it was as bad as it gets. my son just recently came home from a 40 day stay at a rehab. This time he has chose to go to a Sober house and get extra help. He has been there now for a week they have to do a mandatory 2 meetings a week and have 3 drug tests a week and have 3 weeks to get a job or they get kicked out they also have a curfew. My son told me he needs to continue to live somewhere that he is held accountable to someone other than his father and I as we have a great history of wanting to believe his lies and have enable him in the past even when we didn't know we were. As parents we love our children so much that we want to believe they are being upfront with us, but that is not the case and even when we know this sometimes we can still fall back into a pattern without even realizing.  I do think your daughter would definatly benefit from meetings . But as Deb said they need to want this we cant force it or it wont work. Wouldn't it be great if it could be that easy!!! I am still a nervous wreck he will relapse I even called the sober house and asked if they could let me know if at any time he failed to do any of his requirments as well as fail any test. they told me because he is under 21 they could. My biggest concern with him not living here is that I will be snowballed into believing he is doing great and the whole time being lied to. So far so good But I don't ever give him money when he asks and I am always cautious who he is with my guard still is way up. how ever he does have a lot more freedom now then when he was here and I let go a little more each day to try myself to learn to live without being his keeper and for him to live on the outside world and make his own choices and hopefully good ones. Good luck with your daughter stay tough and stick to your words she is not going to be happy but you are doing the right thing. The stronger you become the better her chances are.
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1530493_tn?1410060236
Hey mom ...GOOD to see you !!!
I have to say, you've crossed my mind thousands of times since I last heard from you.
Thank You for keeping me updated, I want to know when he reaches his first clean year...OK :)
Every post I read from you...only continues my proud smile
I know your still on guard, you have every right to be BUT being on the outside looking in, you ALL have ALOT to be proud of !!!
You...yourself are in a COMPLETELY different frame of mind with his addiction...hmmm and now... so IS he :)
Don't let that change...

You have a smart young man there, as well as a smart mama to back him.
It sounds like hes getting it !!!!
Many stories of success ...think you may be on your way to one.
Near 2 months clean is a tremendous accomplishment...and mom...its  coming from him !!!
I think he wants this ;)
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Hi Deb179, as too your comment  I seem like I am in  a completely different frame of mind. You are so correct!!! I remember the desperation and heartache I was feeling when I first logged on here. How I could not stop coming back and reading and just feeling so hopeless. I now even though still a little skeptical am so filled with HOPE, STRENTH and such a better outlook on the future!!! He started his first day back at work today as well. I picked him up and drove him in today and I could see that sense of pride back on his face. Made my whole day. Yesterday I had me 18 month old grandson (his son) he was sitting on the floor playing toys I was just sitting back watching and getting such joy out of his excitement when he realized the peg he had fit in the circle board and of course I was thinking how very smart he is lol and then I was struck with such a memory that my eyes just started filling with tears. Right there at that moment I could remember my son playing on this same floor and feeling those same feelings so many years before. I couldn't help but think what happened where did it all turn, this beautiful innocent child who is surrounded by love and nurture and has his whole future ahead of him to be and do anything he dreams. As with my son I only see good things for his future. I wish there was some Magic spell I could cast that would make it so he and my son will never have to go through this.( We can dream cant we)...I hope some time in the future when my son has found his answers he will fill me in.
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1530493_tn?1410060236
Awww...the emotions
EVERY bit of it is ok, you cry for a different reason now... its part of our healing.
I still feel what you describe, it'll never change, they're our babies.
Its a very heart wrenching feeling to think of where the innocence was lost.
A cruel world out there, I guess...we just need to believe and have faith, and KNOW it wasn't our fault.
AND Yes...We can ALWAYS dream !!  
Positive thoughts, bring positive to life :)

I'm not sure your son will ever be able to fill you in as to why it happened.  
My son doesn't have a clue, the only thing that truly matters, is the why they get clean and want to stay that way.  
Don't worry about tomorrow, for now stay in your moment, its your turn to feel peace.
Your son is excepting, not at all resisting.  
He did this totally for him, he was not forced...so much positive going on.

Your desperation and heartache when you first logged in, I remember.  You didn't give up, you didn't turn away...you forced yourself to continue to return as painful as it was, you took advice and used that advice to the fullest.  
It took me a year, to go where you went in a month.  
Not many can do what you did,  you put full trust in strangers.
So the next time you look at your son and see his pride, I hope you feel it for you too.  
You did an AMAZING job !!!

We will always need to face the fact that our boys are recovering addicts, with the possibility of relapse, but with time it becomes less of a fear.  
Still to this day I once in awhile start to think of the what ifs...well...what if I push that thought right out of my mind.  
I know what my first action will be if that happens, and so do you

Stay close ...k...Hugs to you !!
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Avatar_f_tn
Well I haven't been on here in a while, things have been very busy. My son is doing well he has his good days and bad days but boy is he giving it one hell of a fight!! I am super proud of him!!! He started a facebook group called HEROIN RECOVERY GROUP OF MASS with the help of a great person here in town that is a big Pay it Forward person who has done great things here as well as across the country. this page is will have inspirational quotes and videos and will be a forum for all addicts in recovery to talk with one another help each other out with their daily struggles as well as share what works for them. Please have a look and share with anyone you think might benefit and for anyone who would like to send encouraging thoughts or quotes or videos of their own that they think will help please don't be fooled by the word Mass in the name this page is public to anyone anywhere.  I cant thank this post enough for how it has changed me I am Humbled by the fact that my son just might create something just as special ' Pay It Forward' has become my new favorite saying.
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1530493_tn?1410060236
Hi there !!!

Im so happy for and proud of you both.  
I joined the FB group...what a way to Pay it Forward !!!

Only YOU changed you mom, with a little help from your friends, what you did was not easy...BUT .... :)
What a GREAT job,  praying for continued success for you all.
When you get a chance will you PM your sons name to me...I think I have an Idea of who he is, but want to make sure.
Time for you to rest now !!!

LOTS of hugs too You
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Avatar_f_tn
I am so glad you joined!! I was told when my son left the rehab in Florida that not all but most will relapse  and that it would be benifical to have a plan for when that happens it will make all the difference in one day of of weakness and getting right back on track too falling back into daily use again. My friend here in town was my back up plan. after 60 days of being clean my son relapsed. We sat on the phone and had a good cry together the next day I immediately brought my son to him and he helped him form this page and for the first time ever he decided to rid himself of all the shame and embarrassment he felt for himself and put himself out there for the whole world to see. That was the biggest step he has ever taken. I haven't stopped smiling for 2 days. I will pm his Name and again I cant thank you enough!!!
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1530493_tn?1410060236
Each relapse is one step closer !!
My son did it too...its ok
Hes making GREAT progress and setting himself FREE :)
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Avatar_f_tn
this is the first time i've found this chat room and i am a mother of a heroin  addict.He is 31 and been in and out of rehab many times. I just found out he has relapsed again when i went  online to pay my bills and found my stolen checks.He now has a 16month old daughter and my concern is for her.The    mother denies she is using but from past experience she is the best liar I've ever met! This has taken such a toll on my husband and I .We have never been involved with DCYF until my son met this girl.She had a son from a previous marriage  who was taken away.I don't think he will ever be straight unless this relationship ends.I guess I have to try to take my granddaughter so she will be safe.When the baby was two months old the DCYF took her away because the mother test positive for drugs and that was the worst day of my life.The mother went into a program with the baby for six months and graduated and came to live with us.Everything was fine at first but went down hill.She won't clean,cook or anything but watch tv and on facebook.My son was clean for at least eight months or more and very happy with his daughter.He truly loves her but I think the mother drives him crazy.I guess we must put my son and her out or the baby can't come with us.Is that how it works?I'm so confused.I love my son so much.He was so happy growing up.Always played sports.Then he was in a rock band and i guess that's when everything started.I also have a daughter who never would try drugs.My son was the funny guy everyone loved.Not anymore.My daughter is also losing her mind because she loves her niece and is worried about her.I know a lot is our fault for enabling them so I will not anymore.It's hard though.Any advice would be welcome.
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1530493_tn?1410060236
Hi

Im so glad you found your way here.
I know the deep desperation and despair you feel.
Stick with us, let us help you....

The baby...makes a big difference.
First of all...I want you to know there IS hope, hold on to that.  
My son was a severe IV heroin addict.
Hes into his 2nd clean year, it can and does happen more often than we know.
I wish I had easy answers and a quick fix for you, unfortunately...its a long road.
My top priority at this point would be the baby and her safety.  
I would first check into the legal issues of guardianship if need be.  
While I'll never believe a family should be separated...her safety is first.
I know how heartbroken you are...our addicts seem to have the biggest hearts, may be the connection to addiction.

In my experience...I needed to make my sons addiction his own, by walking out of his life.  
They say not to enable, I didn't fully understand enabling, until the very end.  
Heroin owns quickly...
Many need added support to allow the changed brain chemistry to recover, reason for so many relapses, in my opinion.
But they need to be ready to let that happen, we cant help them get clean only they can do that
Most heroin addicts need to fall hard, to get back up.
In your sons defense...he had 8 months clean.  I feel, each relapse with significant clean time between is one step closer.
Many relapse several/many times before they are ready.

I know this will be painful...but read some of our stories on this thread...youll see where your life fits.  
There are several success stories here too, it helps to know , your not alone and your child can recover.  

I believe the best way to help our addicts, is to change our attitudes first, let them be totally responsible for their actions.  
Im sure you feel the numbness, that many of us do...it will help YOU to move forward, hopefully he will follow in your footsteps.
There is so much that can be written...if you have questions, please continue to ask...well help you in any way we can

Here for you
Deb
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Avatar_m_tn
I am a desperate mother of a28 year old son. He has been on heroine for a year and half and is killing me. He went to rehab for 4 months mandated trough the courts and relapse right after he got out. Know he got in trouble again and the judge cut him a deal, 18 months probation an 4 months of outpatient. he is still using while in the program. I need to let him go but I haven't been able. I take him to work and staying with him at a relatives house  because my husband put a restraining order on him. I am loosing my family because of him. Pls need some support. I want to tell him I can't do this anymore. He will go yo prison for 3 years if he doesn't  follow the court orders.





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1530493_tn?1410060236
Awww Sweetie, I know your pain.
Addiction does destroy families...many.
We should Never have to choose between the people we love, in this case...work with your husband.  Keep him close and do it as a team, no one loves your son, like you and his dad do,
Dad wants the same out come as you, most men have a different way of handling it, they can be tougher, let him teach you how, as that's what needs to be done.  
The toughest of Love right now.
The ONLY enemy here is heroin, your son is not the son you know right now.
We cant protect them, do for them or try to fix them, by doing that we only allow their addiction to intensify.  We enable them.  
Your goal is to make HIM totally responsible for his actions and addiction. He needs to fall hard honey, and you need to let him do that.
He was forced into rehab, it didn't change a thing.  I know we have high hopes, but unless they are ready to let it go...it just wont happen.
If we cushion their fall...we only prolong their use.
You cant change him...you have to work on changing you.  
I know it goes against all we feel as mamas, but you need to learn a new way to love your son.  
As for prison ...my son also faced 7 years.  He did many county sentences from weeks to months.  Each time released, he went right back to using.  It wasn't enough to scare him.  I picked up his pieces each time, because "I" didn't want him to go to prison...BIG MISTAKE, I only allowed him to become a severe addict, hanging by a thread.
After many od's, many suicide attempts...I had nothing left to hang on too.
I had to let him go, I knew I couldn't be the one to find him dead.
Unknowingly, after trying EVERY thing in my power to "save" him, letting him go, was what allowed him to save his life.
He is now 2 years in recovery...we went to the deepest pits of hell, but only he could pull himself out.
I guess what Im trying to say, is give this your toughest fight now, before you are forced to let go.
There are many stories here, all so painful.  If you read them, you will see where your life fits.  
Its the same painful story...
There are also stories of success, several of us have recovering heroin addicts, each one of us HAD to put them in Gods hands first.
I know my words hurt, but I don't want you to walk the road so many of us were forced to walk.
I doesn't get easier, while you hold his hand.
Im sending you a friend request, please message me when you need to, I promise I will keep you facing forward
This can be done,,,
NEVER believe differently....
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Avatar_m_tn
I don't even no where to start.  Today I prayed to God to guide me and show me the way. My son went with his cousin for the weekend to Glamis and he borrowed his cousin truck, got cut with a suspended license and some junk. Ohhh he violated his probation. I will not bailed him out. I told him that it was the last chance with me. This situation has gotten worst I have been going crazy for a while.  I just pray to God that he is safe in there and that he realizes all the damage this drug has done to and family. I don't know the outcome of all this. I just want to put him in Gods will. I love him very much but I am so depress right know.
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1530493_tn?1410060236
I know how this hurts...
Do NOT bail him.
Each time we bail, we put them back out there to dig their hole a little deeper, your seeing that.  
Right now he IS safer where he is, try to let your mind rest, take your thoughts any where but on your son and his what ifs.

My sons final jail time, I cut ALL communication, this way he couldn't guilt me, I honestly felt a sense of peace
No visits, no phone calls, no bail,  no money....nothing.  
This was after he od's at my kitchen table with a slit wrist, went to a  mental hospital for a few weeks then to jail for a few months.  
My mind said I should see him, but my heart was so numb that I just couldn't look at him.  
HE was MAD and HURT, that I wouldn't do for or be there for HIM any more, he felt I let him go...but you know what, for the first time in his addiction ... I was MAD for all the hurt he allowed to happen to us, and He letting us go.
How SELFISH !!!
I turned the table...My attitude changed... I finally let the blame fall where it belonged, on him.
At that point...I made his addiction his own problem, I couldn't change him, he ruined his life my life and everyone that loved him.  
Do you see the role we play ?
When we let them do this to "us", nothing will change, they're too comfortable.
When they are left alone to do it to them...it seems to be the wake up call many of them need.
Words said here and words to follow..."support ONLY his recovery...not his addiction ".  Unless they are actively seeking recovery, we need to back away.
When he is truly ready to let heroin go...you wont second guess him.  
Even though we want them to get clean, its us that hold the high hopes.

Hes in a safe spot...let him use this time to figure out how HE will now get out of this mess.  It will give him some time away from heroin and time to think if this is how he wants to spend his life.
Toughest of love, right now...he will thank you in the end
Be strong honey...here for you !!!
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Ahhhhh!! It hurts to much. My son just called me he has been released from jail. He didn't ask me to pick him up, which is about 100 miles from here. He did said that he was on a T-shirt and shorts and is very cold. No money, no phone. I don't know what to do. My husband is pretty upset about me thinking on going to pick him up and take him to my sisters. He has work tomorrow and drug class on wednesday.  Please what do I do? I need your advise. I don't want him to loose his job but it seems that everything has to go for him to hit bottom. He has no home or car. Please God give me the strengh.
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Im so sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner.
Hang in there...I know how this hurts, stay with us...even if its only to write your feelings...it helps, we understand.
Your son is walking that fine line right now...  
I know where your mind and heart are, all in the right places but he needs that little push away from you... just for now...he will never stop loving you..  
Let him be responsible for him, his actions, his addiction.  What he has or doesn't have, what he looses and what he wants to keep
You cant change any of that...only he can.
They need to know life without us picking up their pieces
Its going to be hard, but focus only on the out come you seek...let him come back to you when hes ready to get clean.
Use your husbands strength to help you.  
You need to back away for your own emotional stability.
You cant help him...if you let him make you sick, they pull us deep.
Thank care of you...let him follow your lead in that way right now

Here for you and a prayer sent to you all, you can do this
Tough love mom
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My son is a recovering heroin addict. I picked him at the hospital in 2009 after a near death overdose. I dropped him off at a $12,000  rehab center 3 days later. He stuck with the program for 2 years then thought he was ready to start using pot and alcohol again. Finally he got the message and started seeing a psychologist 2 weeks ago who told him to stop using. He then decides to jump from the roof resulting in a broken hand. I didn't understand at fist why he seemed excited until the doctor prescribed him Norco obviously not being informed he was treating a heroin addict.He took them before any one knew and now looks like the junky I dropped at the rehab. My son is 35, how can I let the doctors in his group know of his drug abusive past? A SCREENING SHOULD BE DONE BEFORE PRESCRIBING ANY OPIOIDS TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT GOING TO AN ADDICT!!! I need help, he is delusional and will not listen to reason and I fear for my grandson.
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I SO HATE drugs, so very sorry after 2 years you find yourself back to the beginning, this is so heartbreaking.  

Because of your sons age and his right to privacy,  its basically out of your hands, hes an adult.  BUT.. if it was my son...Id be making some calls to the doctors in the group.  Id be that annoying parent, until someone heard me...hes still your baby, regardless of his age.  

Unfortunately, your son allowed it to happen though...the responsibly to use or not was totally in his hands.
Is it possible to reason with him ?
We know if they choose that path, it doesn't matter what we say, think or do.
He has to want to fight to be and stay sober, you cant make him do that.
I think I would put my concern in your grand son right now.  
Make sure hes safe, maybe if dad faces the possibility of losing his son, he'll think twice.

Good Luck...were here for you
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Here I am one more time. It has been crazy, my son got out of jail. He was there only for two days and let go. I don't understand the system he had possession but not under the influence. He has to stay clean otherwise he is going to be in violation of the courts. He use this past week off and on tapering down the junk,  and started his plan on Friday. Today we are sitting here and he is going trough withdraws and just praying that he survives this. He goes back to work on Tuesday and Wednesday meets with his counselor. We went to an alanon meeting and shared his story. He said he is ready. I just hope that he is not doing it for the program that he is in. Only time will tell.
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Deb179,
I have read all of the posts in this thread over the past several months and I want you to know how I hold on to your story of surviving the storm and your sage advice to all of us who are so broken and in so much pain from living with our addicted adult children. My story is the same as all of the others. I am guilty of enabling my 32 year old son for way too long in too many ways to count...as we all know, I have been loving him to death while trying to follow your counsel to stop enabling and separate with love.  My heart has struggled for months to do what I knew I needed to do but I just couldn't bring myself to tell him to leave and make it stick.
I tried so hard to bring my situation to closure earlier in the fall because I didn't even want to think of throwing my son out of the house 3 weeks before Christmas. I kept trying every way I could to get him to take the suboxone faithfully but it just didn't take.  I tried to get him to understand that counseling could give him insight into his pain and he wouldn't go. I tried it all including bribery. Desperation takes us to places we should never have to go to as a parent. I just couldn't give up on him. How could I give up on the one thing that I love the most in this world? It became a daily dance of dysfunction, pain and sadness.
Yesterday I just snapped. My son called in sick because he didn't want to get up and go to work. He only works three days a week and he wouldn't get up. That one event crystalized in my mind how bad things have gotten and how low he has fallen.
I got to the place you have talked about. I am just numb. I am done.  I can't live with this bs any longer. I don't care who he is and how much I loved him. He can't do this anymore on my watch.  
I told him he had 30 minutes to pack his stuff and leave. I have threatened many times before but this time he knew I was in a different place.
He knew I meant it and he didn't quite know how to respond. I stood my ground and gave him trash bags to start packing. He didn't want to talk to me or look at me. I was OK with that because I am so over the talking.
Before he left, I told him I needed to speak with him in his car. I told him that earlier in the day I was scrolling through our texts and I realized how angry I had become and how desperate I sounded...so scared and hurt with each text. I realized that every day for the past year has been punctuated by texts of me begging and pleading for him to come home or find a job....on and on and on.  I told him we were toxic to each other now and I can't have him in my home in active addiction. I told him I will move mountains for him when he is ready to go to rehab but not to call and ask for anything unless he is ready to move on and get into a serious program.
I hugged him and watched him drive off. So sad.
I have to trust that what everyone says is true: Let them go they say. It sounds so simple and yet it is the hardest thing I have ever had to do.
I expected to feel relief that I won't have to spend my days now trying to manage his behavior.  I will have the peace and quiet I deserve.
But the sadness is so heavy on me. I have to turn him over to something else and pray that he will be safe and can realize sooner rather than later that he wants out of this crazy rat hole.
Finally, I want to say that this site has been such a comfort to me and such a guiding light to help me learn how to stop being the enabler who just keeps the craziness going even longer.  I guess part of my deep sadness is the fact that I have not been able to get him to agree to go to rehab. I feel like I failed him in this regard and I worry about what I could have done differently to get a different outcome.
I know he is a full grown adult and I can't fix it but I can't get past the feeling that I failed him.
Thank you so much for your ongoing guidance to us all.
  
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Stay with us ok, I watch for you daily, your not alone.
First of all...YES..."the system" does fail all of us.  
Addiction is much more intense, than jail threats.
There just isn't the available help that is needed, I feel locking them up does nothing to get to the root of the problem.
I see positive in your last post, the fact that he did a meeting, trying to taper, is a definite plus.  Forced or not...hes excepting there is a problem.  Their first step is facing their denial.
As for the mom side...take baby steps, try to keep yourself level, emotionally detach as much as possible right now.  
Be there to support his recovery, but also be prepared that this might not be the time.  
A lot of our emotional roller coaster...is we let ourselves get so high on the thought that this is it, if by chance it isn't...we crash hard.  
Since this is going through the courts, does he have the option of trying suboxone, or something to help him maintain ?

Heroin owns the mind quickly, it changes the brain chemistry, reason I believe it is soooo  hard for our kids to get away from it.
They think differently, suboxone helps to level out their mind....makes them feel more normal as they work on their recovery.
While I know our main goal is complete sobriety, many of our heroin addicts need extra help to get there.
The only other way I believe its possible is LONG term inpatient, more than a few months, learning to heal, mind body and soul.

your son needs to be accountable to someone, if he goes through a sub doc, being in the situation he is in ( jail time)  it just might be the added help he needs to jump this hurdle.
Hes at the make it or break it point, the out come is in his hands.  
As hard as all of this has been on you.. arrests, jail, courts...he actually has an advantage, over many.  
He was caught.
This is how my son did it...his final attempt before getting clean.  
He was very much in the same spot as yours, only I was First forced to put him out of my life.
Most Important and the only way it will work is they NEED to want it to work.
At my sons last court date, he explained to the judge, he was ready and WANTED to be clean, but couldn't find the way.  
He excepted drug court ( were in NY ) and asked to be treated by a suboxone doctor.  Court allowed that along with random drug tests, out patient rehab, meetings and self help groups. As long as he had no dirty results,  he was allowed to go at his own pace.
He weaned down from the subs slowly, with his doctors guidance.. just enough to not put his mind back to a bad spot.  Out patient rehab and meetings he said did not do a thing for him, as it only made him "think" drugs.
The subs blocked his craving, so he was able to do what he had to do and got through it.  He still to this day goes to self help groups. From the
self help, he learned how to recognize triggers and how to avoid them.  
All our kids do it in different ways...what works for one might not work for the next.  When I KNEW he was serious about his recovery ( and you will )  I followed HIS lead.
Im sure you have read strongerones post, feel her words, as painful as they are, most of us are forced into her spot.
Tough love, your son is facing a turning point, help push him into that turn...do not cushion his use.
We can all do this together...it CAN be done

Hugs and Prayers...sent your way
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Your post went to the pit of my heart and soul, it is a pain that is never forgotten, I feel everyone of your words.
I wish I could write words to comfort you, I know there are few right now. What Id like to do is offer my friendship and support, you need to work on you right now.  
Many say meetings, church, counseling...any where you can find support. while I never went that direction, only because I didn't trust myself driving my car at the time.
I found something that worked for me, it may sound weird, but I separated my life.
I found NO ONE in my everyday life that could help.  
My other children were too emotionally attached, it hurt them as much as I to talk about it.  
My friends, while I know they meant well and tried their best, they would hear me yet be able to walk away back to their happy family while I was left standing holding the broken pieces of my heart still in my hands.  
This is a life that unless you live it, it can never be understood...so how could my friends help?  
I felt and was VERY alone.
I found 2 soul mates here...I say that because they are people that I would never have had the opportunity to built such a strong bond with, in my every day life.
What I did, was force myself in my everyday life to get back to life the best way I knew how...that was to do any thing and everything in my power not to let thoughts of my son in my mind, and not discuss him with any one.  When I needed the shoulder, which was daily in the beginning...I came to my soul mates, while many times we didn't talk about our kids...it was just the fact of finding GREAT comfort in them, because they knew EXACTLY where my life was.  Over time, my 2 worlds blended and I was able to function.

The addiction story, it is the same.
I know there is no description for your pain right now.
You did the only thing that was left to do, no guilt...you gave your all.  This is the fall he needs
I know you feel like your playing Russian roulette with his life, but know his game was more deadly under your watch.
Nearly all of the success stories, came from putting our kids alone with their addiction.  When they find themselves in life alone, with only one Love...their drug, MANY figure it out.
You've reached the lowest low in the parents role.
While it is the hardest point to reach..."numb" will help you survive.

Time makes it bearable...

Here for you, sending healing prayers for your son and prayers of peace to you

Please hold in your heart these few words...
"NEVER... give up hope...it happens when we least expect it"
Warm Hugs To YOU
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Deb,
Thank you so much for your support. I woke up this morning (west coast) to a gray sky and before I could lift my head off the pillow, I started crying.
My head knows this was long overdue but my heart is in so much pain and sadness.
My earlier posts told my story of my son. College graduate, sweet, kind and loving. He started Oxy in college and came home 2 and a half years ago when he lost his job and broke up with his girlfriend. We knew when he came home that he needed to address his addiction and we have given him every ounce of love and support imaginable. He stayed clean for about 6 months until he met a new crowd up here.  I am sure you know when I say I tried it all....that I tried it all....I left no stone unturned.
He just hasn't been ready. He still isn't. I think he mostly went through the motions to appease us and to keep the security of a wonderful home and all the benefits of this environment. I look back and realize that I should have called the end of the game at least a year ago but as someone on this site said to me months ago, it takes as long as it takes to get to this hellish place where we can stare them down and tell them to leave. I couldn't make it stick before.
I just know that he was getter deeper in on my obsessive watch and what I had wasted so much time trying to do hadn't done a damn thing to make the situation better. It just made it easier for him to use.
You have lived my life right down to the fact that there is so much shame and isolation because no one in my family or circle of friends would ever understand how this could have happened. And, like you, I find that I have to keep the two things separate right now because otherwise I would have to live this pain all day every day with my well meaning friends asking if they can help or what is going on, etc.  
There is nothing anyone can do right now. My son holds all the cards.
I have read your words and counsel and I know absolutely that your compass is true and correct. I know, through you and others on this site, what my role is now. I just have to hold on and keep my head focused on the end game. I know for sure that I would not be able to see the light with all this darkness if not for your knowing support and the support of others on this site.
I don't expect to hear from my son for a while. He knows that he can't come back until he is ready to go to an inpatient program. I will not text him or call him.
Your support means the world to me.    
    
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Honey...yell, scream, cry...get it out.
Try not to think of who your son was, the drug has changed him, under it all hes still there, he needs to find himself.
Hes use to a comfortable life style...its gone, hes thinking.  
Don't expect anything from him right now, it seems to at this point turn into who will give in first...it CANT be you.
You told him what you will except...strongly stand your ground.
You did get to the spot where you could stare him down, its the hardest, most painful spot to reach.
If you give in to him now, you will set the stage for a deeper darker hole, and still end up where you are today over time.
We grieve for months, years over our loss, while they stand in front of us, we are emotionally beaten to the core.
We try to fix them to ease our pain, but we only hurt them more in the end.
In order to help him, you need to totally focus on yourself now, when hes ready, hes going to need you 100%.
Its a slow process, addiction to healing.  
You have hit your rock bottom.  
Each day has brought you more pain, than the previous.  Your now going to the opposite side, each day will bring more peace, slowly it will come.  You need to force yourself in the beginning, and please don't be afraid to ask for help.  Come here often, I for one check daily, if you need more than that we will find a way to communicate when you need to.
I changed my life...I avoided everything and anything that reminded me of my son.
I did a lot of driving, with LOUD music as I too isolated strongly, I only let a few people in.  Don't go places that will let you think.
I got out of my house...that was the most painful.
I spent a lot of time in "busy" places.
We too need to change people, places and things at least for awhile.
I forced myself to smile at strangers, eventually I felt it, you will too

Hang in there.. its tough love for a reason,  it couldn't be tougher, but in the end, you will hear Thank You

Here for You
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Deb,
It was a hard day but I got through it. Yes, I feel I am abandoning the sweet little boy who I adored. But he is a grown man now and I owe it to both of us to stay out of his way until he is ready. I expect he will call me in about a week but I won't answer the phone....I am not strong enough to speak with him and hold the line. I will text him back and repeat the requirements...he has to go to rehab. I know 100% that this is what our relationship must be now. I am not wavering and I won't give him anything. He is smart enough to figure it out. It breaks must heart and every time I go into his room, my heart aches. I will stay away from that area of the house because the sadness is overwhelming . I am doing what you recommended....stay busy and don't ruminate on the gravity of it all.  I will be a good student, I promise. I just keep telling myself this is the only way to give him the clarity he will need to move forward out of the woods. I pray he has the strength to fight for his life.
Your support means the world to me. Blessings
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Im so sorry for your pain, stay with us, several here are also struggling.
Gain strength from others that walk in your shoes, and who have been there.
Please understand, you are not abandoning your son, your giving him the chance he needs to get well, & come back to you.
You have a good mindset and know what you must do... I know it wasn't easy to reach...stand your ground.
I went back to some of your previous posts...you fear what we all fear, that we some how are putting them in harms way if we let them go, how can they get well without our love and support ?
It wasn't until I was forced to let go of my son, that I understood the full circle of the role I played.  
There is a big difference between our  love and support while they are in active addiction verses the love and support he will receive from you during his recovery.
During their active addiction, our love and support  fully enable them.

When you do respond to your sons call by text, tell him how much you love him and  that can never change.  
What has changed is you can no longer watch him destroy his life, until he is ready, you need to back away.  When he is ready, You WILL 100% support him with love.
You find yourself in the deepest spot right now, you will begin to heal, when you can let go.  
He needs to fall to stand again.
Keep your mind as far away from him as possible for the time being, youll need to force yourself in another direction for awhile, it will get a bit easier, by the day.
Its baby steps for us too.
Hang in there...stay strong
Were here for you
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Deb,
I just realized I must have given myself 2 screen names over the past years. I apologize for any confusion. I am going to delete one of them as we have enough issues without having to sort out screen names.

I am feeling stronger today. I took all of his baby photos off my table and put them in a drawer for now. It doesn't do me any good to see those precious happy days at this moment. Isn't it odd how we just can't ever get those precious children out of our heads when we are going through this crap?  

I so much appreciate your guidance on the message I must send him if he contacts me. I also needed to be reminded that love can be soft but it also needs to be strong....and if ever there was a time for me to be strong, it is now.

I was thinking this morning that as I am aching so badly with this, he is probably sleeping soundly on somebody's sofa and not missing me one bit. It made me feel less scared for him and I realized that my pain with the separation is so much greater than his.
My husband has always been really bad about telling everyone what they should do and shoving self help books in everyone's faces as if he has everything figured out. I have always resented this tactic and my response would be to make his unsolicited advice the last thing I would try just because he was so annoying. I realize that is probably how my son was finally reacting to me. My pleading, my attempts at loving counsel....he didn't ask for it and he didn't want it. I just became an annoyance that he had to put up with to keep the game going.
I also have to remember that he is a very bright, very charismatic grown man who is not in the depths of some third world country. He is in the SF Bay Area for heaven's sake! He has places to go for help if he wants it without me.
I hold on to the fact that your outcome has been so good. I think all of us who are on this thread hold on to that and use it to get through the days and nights. I actually printed one of your responses to someone and I keep it in my purse. I read it almost daily when I feel sad or scared. I want you to know just how much of an impact you have had on my life.
I can only pray that one day I can tell a similar story but for now,  the outcome is in my son's hands.
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aka finalturn ?:)
Its ok, I was a bit confused but went back an read those post too, so I have a better idea, just didn't totally connect :)
Im glad your feeling better, it will get easier...I promise.  
There will be those down times... just try to push those thoughts out of your head as soon as they enter.  
You can do this,  this is one of the most important things you will probably ever do for your son during his life time.
When you can wrap your mind around that in a more peaceful state... you'll feel relief.
Your feeling every emotion right now, soon you'll know why you had to do this, with out second guessing yourself.

Your son is thinking about you, don't ever doubt that, this is part of what he needs to feel.  They need to feel the pain too, until now it was only you.
Also don't for one second believe this will compromise his love for you, in the end you 2 will know a different kind of love, something much deeper.  
When our attitude changes towards their addiction, it seems to help change their attitude too.  
Some get it fast, others take their time, lets pray your son finds his way soon, until he does, you need to heal you.
As Ive said you have been emotionally beaten to the fullest, this has to be about you now.
The reason your going to get yourself emotionally strong, is because you need to know how to not let him pull you this low again, and he wont, you wont allow it.
I went every where you did....
My son will ALWAYS be an addict...Ive excepted that...hopefully for the rest of his life in recovery, but if he should decide to use again, I know what my first move will be without a doubt, and so does he.
When you can get yourself to that spot, you will have a different way of handling it if he should get clean and relapse.
Also try to prepare yourself now and I don't want to say if he gets clean, were going to think positive...so When he gets clean, that there will be a high possibility of relapse, some don't, but many do...its ok, they too need to learn a new way of life
It takes time...a lot of time, but when you see an honest attempt, with significant clean time, don't let a slip spiral you down.
You have to learn how to live your life, without his fear...ok :)
Your going to be ok...YOUR climbing out of that dark hole.
Im sticking with you at least until I hear about rehab, so hope you have the time to keep me posted :).
You keep writing, get that pain out, before long, you'll be helping others

Many Prayers for you and your son
Try to rest...you did the only thing
Deb
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Deb,
I am doing better today. I am going to spend 3 days with my daughter and her two babies until Sunday so I know I can stay busy and not linger on my pain.
I will update if I hear from my son but for now all is quiet. Your words are so important to me and this is another one I will print and read when I need to get my head reoriented from the pain of my helplessness in this situation.
I know absolutely that he can't come back until he has gone to rehab if for no other reason than I don't want to have to "redo" this experience again. As I move through each day now, I can see that very clearly.
It also helped me to go back and read my posts from all this year. When we are so close to it and so desperate and love them so much, we just can't get out of the force of the insanity. Looking back, I see that we were just replaying the same craziness every day for so long.
You are a blessing to me. I think I am good for the next few days.
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I like your post, it makes me smile...your getting there
When we can separate our emotions from reality...we get a different picture, huh ?  
The hardest thing to do, but it saves many lives.
You have a Great time with your daughter and the babies...its just what you need !!
Talk soon...Hugs sent your way !!
BTW...Im VERY PROUD of you, you will never go to that dark spot again, your learning a different way of life.
Hope you find many reasons to smile over the next few days :)
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my son is addicted to heroin and is now in his 4th rehab, second month very well know good place. I just got back from family week where things seemed hopeful.  he got to stay the night out with me since I had come a long way to participate.   he decided to spend that nightt in relapse, spending all night out, I can only thank God he drank and did not use heroin. I was devastated  as he seemed to be so sorry. His therapist called me that night and very boldly told me  he had told her I triggered him with a conversation (that never happened) and told her I use to sell him for drugs. Not quite clear on the facts, since there are none . I was completely heart broken and still saying over and over I cant believe he said that.  yesterday he managed to call me and let me know basically he had to save himself at any cost, mine of course, otherwise he was kicked out.  now they wont let me talk to him don't really want to.and im not supposed to talk to him without therapist. I don't want him kicked out and he certainly isn't doing the right thing, I don't even know what to do how to do it or who to trust  
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Deb,
I wanted to give a quick post as I am trying to get to Virginia tomorrow to spend time with my sisters for the week. I know I will be able to stay busy with them and even though my son's situation creeps in to my mind and heart several times a day, it does help to stay away from home where I know I am geographically so close to him.
I met him today at the bank's ATM to give him his paycheck which comes to our house. It isn't much money because he only works part time. When he lived with us, I would dole it out to him but I read in a post on this thread that it is his money, he earned it ,so I should just give it to him and let the chips fall where they may. Sort of hard to do but I agree with the rationale that we have to give up all control.
He looked thin and sad. I can see that the reality of the situation is starting to hit him. I only spent five minutes with him and I didn't replay my tapes about "rehab, etc". I did not offer him any extras like I would have done in the past such as a gas or prepaid card. I gave him a big hug and drove off. And I cried for his pain and for mine.
I won't give in, though. I am so clear now that the only way for him to get to the place where he wants a different life is to live this "dead end road" life until he realizes he has had enough.
When I feel my resolve weakening and I want to call him or offer him something, I make myself stop and wait ten minutes. During that time I reread this thread and remember all the things I did for him that just kept the insanity going and I know I have to stay the course.
I will update in a few days as it makes me sad to come here right now and recount my sadness.

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Thanks for the update...
I've thought of you many times.
I know how hard this is, try not to think of it any other way than letting him be a responsible adult, taking care of his own needs.
Your doing a good job...keep busy.
I totally understand how hard it is to come here, keep doing what your doing...stay strong, just update when your ok to do that.

Try to enjoy the time with your sisters...
In my thoughts and here when you need to talk
Deb
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Hi
My son use to tell some pretty tall tales too, not only to me, also about me and yes it was to make sure he was ok.  
It hurts, I know
Even though it wasn't right what he said, he kept himself IN rehab.
The fact that you cant talk to him without a therapist present, might not be a bad thing for you.  He clearly took advantage of the night he was suppose to spend with you...he made the mistake, you got the blame,  now when he can no longer leave with you, he has no one to blame but himself.
We have to try not too take too much personally, even thought he is in rehab and recovery, it will take time to heal the addicted mind.
Its hard to trust when the trust is shattered, that too heals with time.
Chin up...he "saved" himself at your expense at least it was for rehab & not to get high.
Good Luck ... I hope your son succeeds !!
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I'm still hanging in there. Doing ok.
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Thank you for the update on you !!
Think about each of you...
Hope you find some peace in your heart soon
Stay strong
Prayers sent your way....
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I just wanted to thank you  for your support and all the parents for sharing their experience.  I just hope that my son is not pretending to be clean for the past 8 days. We are staying with family, yesterday he went on a bike and was gone for about 6 hours. I had gone home for the weekend so I could not tell if he use or not. My family said that he looked fine, but it is so hard to trust him. I came back today and seems to be doing fine. Just trusting God that he guides me in the right direction, I tolld my son that if he uses I am stepping on side and he is on his own.  Please pray for us to have the strength and keep on going.
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It has been a while since I have been on here. Been working very hard with my son to help keep him sober. Things are going very well for him right now. He paid all his court fees, got his license and just got an offer for a wonderful job. He still has to work at this and will for sometime but he is getting there. Reading all these current stories and it is a reminder of how we are all in this together fighting to save our children everyday. Deb as always you are an angel . your words help so many!!! I hope the best for all of you and I will keep you all in my thoughts and prayers. There is hope, we need to know that. Tough love is  hard to learn and even harder to apply ,but it works. I was loving my son to death literally. changing how I loved him was the most difficult thing to do. But I can honestly say it's working.
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Your son has a reason to work hard on staying clean, hopefully he is.  
He has drug classes each week ?  Does he have to tox too ?
Honey you cant babysit him 24/7, youll drive yourself crazy.
You have set your expectations, just be ready to follow through if he crosses the line
You now have the right mind set.
Remember...Support ONLY his recovery not his addiction...heroin kills, don't let him be a statistic, with you holding his hand
Benefit of the doubt, with eyes WIDE open
Please keep us updated...we Care

In my Thoughts...
Prayers sent your way for you all
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Your posts continue to give me never ending smiles !!!
Your last post very touching, in SO many ways
Pay it Forward...
You sure are, and its only been my pleasure to be able to walk that road with you
Your an inspiration, as is your son...
Believe...
you never lost sight of that word
Your 5 words...words that I truly believe hold the answer we all desperately look for.
                             "Changing how you loved him"
As painful as it was...You Stood STRONG, as a result...today you can smile
What a job Mom, stay around...your words are needed here.
Together we all can do it !!!
Your son is going to change lives also, hes strong, Ive been following him...I can think of no better high
I still say...I wish I could have done it like you !!!
Hugs....
And only My Best to You BOTH !!!!!
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You're right I can't  watch him 24/7 and yes Is driving me crazy.  But I feel that it is taking me a long time to change things.
He is doing drug classes mandated by the court and all other cases that come with it. Next month he has to courts for the ticket he got at the end of the month, and as hard as I tried not to worry I still do.  What makes it harder is the work for the same company and almost lost his job. He was suspend ended for about a month. I just pray that this anxiety goes away and that he keeps strong. I don't think he could take subs. He has to test clean from any type of drug. Today he has been clean for 12 days and one day at a time
Thank for your support
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First thing I'd like to say is 12 days is a Big accomplishment !
Congrats to him !!
like I said eyes wide open...you have the right idea, but try to back away an not worry about his every move. It's only emotionally hurting you an causing you great anxiety and stress.
you cant stop him if he's going to use, it sounds like he is working hard at this so for now try to find some peace with that
His situation (facing prison) might just be enough for him to rethink his life.
He has the added benefit of being caught.
While to you...it's hard to see it that way now, as I know it's constant worry over the what ifs... if he does something wrong to violate.  
He has to be accountable for his actions to someone or something....in his case he has the courts.
while in my son's situation all the jail time didn't make him want to get clean I know this is not what you want to hear but I'd like to tell you my mistake...maybe it can help you do it differently.
my son when forced did what he had to do to get out of trouble... he didn't get clean because that was what he wanted to do, as a result he couldn't stay clean.  Now I'm not saying this is a bad thing because each time he was forced I do believe lead to his final decision of letting it go, and wanting a normal life.
each time he was released...I was so happy he was clean, I would do everything to help get him back into life, back on his feet.
What I didn't understand at the time was because he wasn't ready to stay clean... I only helped him right back to active addiction.
if I were to go back in time to where you are now...I would tell my son how proud I am of him for keeping himself clean an I fully support ( not financially,  makes it too easy for them) if he needs to talk...rides to meetings, being with him during court, etc .  
NO money put in his hands.
I then would make it perfectly clear that if he relapses you will not be there in any way to watch him destroy his life.  
You have that perfect opportunity right now to make that clear. Put his addiction in his hands now and stand firm and hard with that.
It takes most of us a very LONG time to change things, including myself...so much easier said than done, it's something that very few can make themselves do until they reach the point of no return.  I would like to help prevent you from going there.
rjrmom (above in this tread) is the only one I know that took the bull by the horns, before being forced to let go.
Within a month, she changed her way of thinking, she quit trying to fix her son and made him responsible for him.  
The lady was devastated when she came here yet she wasted no time.  
she changed the way she loved him... I love those words, it's the truth behind our kids addiction.
I know how heart broken she was when she pushed her son out of the nest, but today she has a clean son that is working hard at his recovery and helping others to try to find their way.
If I were faced with this situation again I would do it fast an hard, just like she did...I admire her will power and strength.
I would make it his problem right from the beginning
Hang in there sweetie...you...yourself are making progress. Try to push yourself a little bit each day in Changing the way you love him.
We're here for you and I believe rjrmom will be a great inspiration to you...she's newly on the other side.  I know she feels hope today, when there was very little of that in her life only a few short months ago.
Start with you ....
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Thinking of you ....
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I would like to say hello to you. I feel for you so deeply, you have come to the right place for the best support Deb was my Saving Grace and it means a lot to hear her speak so highly of me. When I first came to this sight I was completely at my end. I was beaten down and broken, I had let a lot of peoples thoughts including my friends and family who have never gone through this get in my head. they would say how I was fighting a loosing battle negative comments always. I remember my first night coming on here and reading these stories. I cried for days I remember thinking, what is making me feel like this and then it clicked I had fooled myself in believing that my story wasn't as bad as everyone elses my son's addiction wasn't as bad as people thought. he was going to work he wasn't stealing and so on. my story was just as bad. My son wasn't going to work to be responsible he was going to support his habit he wasn't paying bills with his pay. I was paying all his bills plus giving him a free roof over his head and food. He didn't have to make excuses for himself. I was doing it for him. I was literally loving my son to death!!! Once I realized this it took me days to figure out what to do next. It was then that I chose to change ( KEY WORD I ) I then came up with a plan. I am to get my life back. I need to change the way I love him! I need to let him know this and give him the opportunity of recovery or I am finally content with letting you go. My plan came in action when I knew I had to wait for him to be high. Unfortunatly its only then that the hospitals will take them in. Well he got high one night and I gave him the choice to go to the hospital or leave for good. I will no longer stand by and watch you kill yourself. Well he packed a bag and called a friend. I was devastated!! I gave him his Ins card and told him when I get a call From a counselor I will be right by your side . I will only take part in your life if it has to do with recovery. It was the one of the hardest nights of my life watching him leave. I just wanted to change my mind all I could think was he was going to get so high because he had nothing to loose that he would over dose. Those thoughts we have that's what are kids are hoping for. Those are the thoughts that let them continue doing what they are doing. After he left I came on here, Thanks to deb who was my cheerleader sort of speak. She kept me strong and focused. Once you do something and don't go back on your word each time it gets a little easier. When you start having doubts this is the place to go! seek out the support. It is very hard but so worth it. My son finally realized I wasn't kidding and he was loosing everything He finally got help for all the reasons . He is doing really well. I am so proud of him!! He still struggles at times  but has chose to pay it forward to help keep himself clean. Slow and Steady , one day at a time. that is how we are getting through this. stay strong, Don't give in and let him take responsibility for all his actions ( no more fixing his problems for him). You can do this!!!!!!!!
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What a great post ;)
I deeply appreciate your kind words,  but the credit is all yours.
Your resent experience,  so new,  so fresh, so bittersweet
You walked the walk. ..no you sprinted !
I can't tell you enough the pain that you forced yourself to ensure,  to have the courage and strength to stand tall face to face with your son's addiction,  helped to prevent a pain that is beyond words.
It's still along road...a life time road,  but you have your addiction to him much better controlled. There may be slips but as you said. ..each time it happens,  you'll find your footing faster,  in turn it will benefit  you all.

Liriomorado... I can't stress enough,  you have the perfect opportunity right at your fingertips to change how you love your son.
I know it's not the answer we went to hear,  but as rjrmom said she needed to time it with him being high,  it is nearly impossible to get quick help for our kids.  When she saw the opportunity she took full advantage. ..hospital,  help or out. You have the courts on your side. ..it truly is a blessing in disguise.
Make him responsible for his actions now while you have that chance.
Words mom said JUMPED at me....our biggest fear.
She felt he had nothing to live for, he may give up and od, if she made him leave.  
That IS our paralyzing fear
That's were our trained mama mind will go,  but in all reality we let them put  that option in their daily life under our watchful eye.
While I cant say some might not do it,  I truly believe our kids won't. ...they know the deep love that backs them.
Yes they become master manipulators of the heart they thrive on our love, to keep them active
My son once text me a message that I will l never forget.  This was his first time at a real attempt to get clean.  It was thanksgiving, we tried to have thanksgiving dinner together.  I kept kicking him under the table to prevent him from falling face first in his food.   By this time in his addiction I very rarely saw his eyes open.  That day I made my oldest son take him out of my home. ..I couldn't look at him any more. He ended up in drug house after drug house I knew that but I was so numb I couldn't talk to him.  
The text I got from him came to me about midnight on a cold jan winter night in ny. He had no where to go. ..the house he was staying in was stormed by the cops. ..he managed to run,  he begged me to let him come home one time more.  Something in me that night wouldn't let me do it, it had to be a higher power than I as I felt peace with my choice to tell him no.  His final text was mom I'm sorry. ..I love you and I hold in my hand enough heroin to not wake up. . I put him in God's hands that night,  but I felt peace as I knew our suffering was near to end in what ever way it needed to come.
I don't remember much about the next 24 hours. ..I was beyond numb,  I felt like I was in a dream. ..but the nightmare ended.  
For the first time he was alone. ...he didn't want to die that way.
He knew he was no longer welcome in my life as an addict.
what he did next I never expected. ..he got clean for the first time for him.  I'm not sure how long it took,  but the day came rather quickly that he was knocking on my front door.  When I opened the door. ..I looked into his soul from his  clear beautiful eyes...
he stayed clean a year.  After he proved to me he was serious I let him come home to rebuild his life. ..he worked hard at it with added help.  The story doesn't end here. He relapsed met an active female user. ..before I had a chance to make him leave again,  he od'd  with a slit wrist at my kitchen table. He survived and so did i.
That was his final time home. ..he got in his comfort zone once again. ...my life my home.
Myself. ..my home. ..his biggest trigger,  we both know that now.
I didn't lose his love, We have a love like never before. ..we feel it with a glance, putting him out of my life brought him home.
He has 2 years now...clean.
there is still that fear. ..but he's different now,  it came from him.
we both had to fall hard to get back up.
It was a pain that there are no words for.

Rjrmom...hit the nail on the head with our biggest fear
Help stop him,  before you go to that darkest place, rjrmom did and I would love to see the same out come for you. ..for all of us here.
There is hope. ..learn to love him in a different way

We're here,  we won't let you do this alone. ..I promise
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I lost my brother and son 4 days apart, my brother Dec. 2nd my son Dec 6th,  If you have a loved one using PLEASE PLEASE, try to make them see there are only 3 outcomes of HEROIN ADDICTION, 1st and foremost, get clean and stay clean my son had 90 days clean,( he had a f it moment thought he could use one last time and that's what he did only this dose killed him) 2nd option get busted and go to jail, and last but not least is death!  Please try to make them understand their is help, they need to work at staying clean harder than they worked at getting high, It's too late for my son ,but if one person is reached by this then his death will not have been in vain
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My deepest heartfelt sympathy to you.  
I can't even imagine your grief.
Heroin is killing too many of our loved ones.
I wish I could find words of comfort to say to you. ..I can't,  there are none.

Thank you for having the strength to tell your story,  I'm sure it was a very hard thing to do.
A very selfless act on your part...

I hope you have a very strong support system.
While I don't know how to ease your pain, I certainly will be here for you to help you get through it

I'm praying for you as I write this
I'm so very sorry,  I know those words mean very little right now, just know. ..  they come  deep from the heart of one  mom to another.

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Deb 179,
I forced myself to come on today to give you an update because your support means so much to me.
I flew back from Virginia yesterday and as I started packing my bags to leave, I could feel the anxiety coming back knowing I had to come back to my son's situation. I had a wonderful time with my sisters and there were long stretches of our days where I put him completely out of my mind and loved my sisters and being in a state of "happiness". At night my mind would wander but I wasn't depressed during my entire stay.
Today I am sad again because I don't know how long this process will take. My son is working part time and while I was gone, he stopped by the house to pick up his paycheck from my husband. He was there for about 30 minutes and my husband said he is staying with a "friend".
I am holding on to the knowledge that this is what it will take and it might be awhile if he has some money and a place to stay. I read one thread where a young man said he was gone for a year before he bottomed out and became tired of the craziness. I pray my son gives up the fight before then but I have prepared myself for it to take as long as it takes.
I am staying very busy and  reading your advice and the other comments in this thread have become  my "mantra". It keeps me sane and pulls me out of the desperate sadness when I am really struggling.
Thank you for your love and support.  
  
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So glad to see you here, ive thought of you often.
Happy to hear you had a nice peaceful time with your sisters, that's what you needed most.
Stay as busy as possible,  do everything possible to keep your mind in another place, it's all still so very raw.
Home seems to be the hardest for us, with time it will get easier.
My home was very hard for a few months....I went back to work,  that helped me tremendously.
Try not to think about how long this will take, the most important thing to remember is there is now a beginning.
It's going to take him time to realize you mean what you say.  
Coming home to get his check is a reminder to him.
He feels this too.
He may be at a friends house right now,  but it won't last. ..it never does if they are using.  
He needs this. ..please remember that.
If it takes a year for him to figure it out, he's a year ahead of himself than if he were in your home.
I know this is very hard on you.  
Stand your ground with love.  
You will help him only when hes ready to help himself.
You can do this. ..you need to do this for him,  don't lose sight that your giving him you your family a chance at a normal life ...ok.
I know you miss him. ...I know you love him, your a mom.

BTW, my son's final attempt took him about 4 months to figure out, by that time...I was OK.
This will be a very long road,  I'm still on it. ..will be for life,  but once you start to see some progress in the right direction it gives you that little incentive to keep yourself facing forward.
Many relapse. ..begin to prepare that it will be a high possibility.
I always looked at each relapse as one step closer and it was.
Just as your feeling now,  he too has to relearn his life.
Please get in touch when ever you need to,  don't ever feel you cant.  

Baby steps. ..it's the way we need to do it too
here for you. . We won't let you do it alone
Prayers and hugs sent to you

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Deb,
I was feeling particularly heartbroken today as I think about the holiday and how unreal it is to have my son so lost in his addiction . Your encouragement was just what I needed to redirect my heart to know that this is the parallel path he and I need to walk for awhile.
I pulled out all of the photos of my three children sitting on Santa's lap over the years (as I do every year) and to see his sweet face and his joy as a child makes it so hard to know where he is now.
I am trying to stay busy so I don't drag myself down as I know I have no control at this point. I am heartened by the strength of all the mothers in this thread and how they too get up every day and persevere.
I can do it too.

You are special to me. Enjoy your holiday with your family and I will reconnect in a few days after my kids and grandkids go home. They will keep me very focused for the next few days and I am looking forward to their visit.

To you and all the parents on this thread who love their children as deeply as we do, have a loving and safe holiday.
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The holidays are very cruel to us when one we love is missing,  I understand that empty feeling, also the pain at where the innocence was lost. ...I did it all too. I felt if only I could take my son back to 2 years old, I would do it so different this time.   When I really thought of what I would or could have done different there wasn't a thing.
we as parents go thought ALL the emotions, guilt a big one
Fear. ...what ifs.  I'm not sure much in life compares to the cruelty of addiction.
Everything you feel you have valid reason.  
since we can't change any one in our lives in any way . ..that change falls in our hands.
You will change you,  my favorite words from rjrmom...
" change the way you love him "
I'm a very different person than I was 4 years ago.
My son has taught me a lot.
While we go through pain others not in our shoes will ever understand... on the flip side we find a love many will never know.
Don't ever think you may lose his love over this.
Tough love...it is tough,  but it's return is worth every bit of it.
He will  thank you,  you will be his hero, as he will be yours.
Hang in there sweetie,  you've got this !
Enjoy your holidays the best you can. ...I'll watch for you.
Please don't let yourself go low. ..I'm here
You've become pretty special to me too, as many here have.
This fight takes many, together we can see our way through.
Hugs. ..Love. ..Strength. ..BELIEVE
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How wonderful is to have this type of support. Thank you Rjmom  and Deb for your words.  Today is 22 days of my son being  clean. He has had a beer here and there wich I don't like.  This Christmas has been the best one in the past 10  years. Everyone was happy and I thank God for the day and the moment. I could only take one day a time I came to this site at one of my lowest moments ahhhhhh thank you again.  I pray for all the parents that are in my shoes. May God give us the strength  and widow to keep on going .
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I just signed on to this site. I have 21 year old son who has reached the point of shooting heroin. He too like many others was gifted in many ways and loved by many growing up. He was always good at manipulation; however, I was always able to see through it. Other than heroin I believe his driving force is his compulsiveness to steal yet everyone just treats him for the drugs. He has been in prison total 18 months, 3 inpatient rehabs, about 4 outpatient programs and countless meetings. His longest stretch of being clean was during his 17 month prison stay and the 4 months following (ages 18 - 19). I am recently divorced and living with my girlfriend her daughter and my eldest son - my youngest son is the troubled one and is no longer welcome in our home. He has stolen from his siblings, my step daughter, myself as well as his mother.

My question: what is the difference between tough love and abandonment? Enabling and supporting?

I do not give him money, I do give him rides to rehabs, meetings etc. I talk to and text him and will take him to lunch. I support him and have deep psychological talks with him. My girlfriend, myself and my ex-wife al thought a sober living house would be best place for him. After his first 9 days he Overdosed and was clinically dead - it took 5 shots of narcon as well as other medical treatment to revive him. Now I look back and think how it is a good idea to live with 7 other men that have the same history and fight the same demons. He gets tested there but there are no repercussions as his PO has no contact with the house. His mom paid the first week and its $170 per week. None of my family or loved ones deserves to be torn apart like this, most of all my son does not deserve to live like this, for I know he does not want this.......I have come to the point that I feel it is more humane to him and a burden off society to have him put out of his misery - I know that is not an option but I feel soo lost - soo hopeless and soo responsible.

I am looking for a support group later today, Thank you for listening...
rjmom and anyone else your input is welcomed!!!
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Hello sweetie !!
What a heart warming post, I am beyond happy for you !!
A BIG congrats to your son, also to you.
Your progressively changing, no back stepping ok.
Your deepest darkness is behind you as long as YOU continue to put one foot in front of the other.
Never underestimate the power of love, we just need to learn how to redirect it.
Stay strong, be prepared and know what you need to do, no backing down allowed now :)
Your finding your way...Im very proud of you, we all know the pain, you will never be alone here,  Ive come to realize this site will be life long support for so many of us, something I too am very grateful for.
We can and we will do this together, we all walk in the same shoes...no one better to understand than US.

A New Year to come ladies...lets do this !!

Strongerone...let us hold your hands...were taking you with us

Hugs...Strength...prayers and love going out to each of you
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Hi dad...its so hard to say welcome to you when you feel as you do, so I want to say were here for you.
I feel your words deeply as I was in the same spot with my son.  
I was at the point his moving on from this world, at the time would have been a blessing.
What I want to say to you...Is NEVER give up...change does happen when least expected.
Many here have reached your spot, we thought the point of no return.  Our kids hit the lowest low, many of them have pulled their lives together in great ways.
It CAN happen, and does more than we know.  
I know many that don't come to this forum.. which I met here years ago, they had no hope, they struggled so desperately, its painful for them to return, but they ARE clean.
Right now you need as much support as you can find.
I couldn't do the meetings, as I didn't trust myself driving, but I attached deeply with several that understood my pain.  They guided me in a way, to be able to change my life and how I loved my son.
I couldn't change my son...I had to put him in Gods hands, and I thank God every day, that he held him for me.
Over time...with the help of the few I let in my life...I was ok.

First thing you need to understand is this is coming completely from your son...nothing you did put him there, I know those words are not much of a comfort, but only he can change his direction.
He is a hard core addict, just as my son was.  
My son could not do it alone, he needed suboxone to save his life.  Is that or other methods available to your son.  
Has he tried, is he willing to try, will they be willing to let him try ?
I had to fight the courts HARD to let them give my son that one last chance.
My God my heart hurts for you...

To answer a few of your questions.
Abondament...is giving up, putting him out of your life for good.  That will never happen, you love him...your here.
Tough love, is making him responsible for his life.  It feels very cruel at times to us as a parent. Its giving them the push they need with a different type of love to help them make the right choices.
Enable...is providing for them.  food, money, home, clothes, gas anything that makes their life easier.  Putting them in a comfort zone, so they are able to use.  We need to make them totally responsible...will they use or will they eat.  I know its heartbreaking.
supporting them...is begin there for them 100 % when they truly make an attempt to become sober.
As for the sober living, meetings, rehab...it works for many, others it only makes the struggle unbearable.
My son could NOT do meetings, any of the above in the beginning.  He needed TOTAL abstinence from drugs, that included talking about it or around others that were struggling themselves.
My suggestion to you, at this point I would strongly fight for alternative treatment...
It is replacing one drug with another, but also saves lives.
I felt I would rather have my son on suboxone for life, than him shooting heroin.
He was able to wean over time...on his time, when his life and mind were in a better place.  
Aftercare as they say here is important...I know that to be true, but some times it takes them time to be in the right place to benefit from it.

Your not alone dad...were here for you, we understand.
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one more thing...he steals to support his habit.
They will always treat the addiction first, but the true help will come from him, when he is ready to surrender.
Hang in there dad, there is ALWAYS hope
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Thank  you for your support. I strongly agree with the abstinence component, but I am searching for that place....psych ward or prison seem to be my only options.

He has been stealing way before he ever used a drug, so I truly believe he needs a kleptomania / impulse treatment....its as if he has no conscious whatsoever. I found a place in Philly that treats this, but they cost about $5k per month.

The confusing thing is that I spoke with some people that have kept their addiction at bay as well as parents that have both lost a child to this and others that struggle still and some tell me that he needs me now more than ever - that living with me would be better than leaving him on the streets because he will feel worse and use more if I turn my back. I feel that I am dammed if I do and damned if I don't?  

I think I have come a long way as I do not give into him as I did in the beginning, but this Christmas was hard because he is looking for the gifts of cash or clothes and I will not give him his gifts from his grandfather or myself. So I am still enabling at lower levels with the rides and periodic lunches. I will continue to ask myself that question prior to supplying him with anything other than conversation or visitation.

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Its a fine line.
It is a damned if you do damned if you don't, eventually it tips one way or the other.  We cant change them, but we can help push them.  
Its heart breaking
I totally understand the confusion.
My beginning thoughts were the same as you have been told..he needed me more than ever now.
I covered for him...I protected him...I did it all to fix him.
What I did was help create a monster that nearly destroyed his life.
He had no reason to change, his addiction grew intense.  I found him od'd more times than I could count, I very rarely saw his eyes open..  many suicide attempts.  He was not my son.
This was all under my loving watchful eye.
We all go through a process, in the end...many are forced to let go...I was one.  
Letting go was what saved my sons life, I was at the point of knowing it wasn't going to be me to find him dead.
When he was left alone, with only one love, his drug....it was a 50/50 chance.  He would give in to that love and take his life with it or he would find life

I agree with your words above, that he needs you more than ever, as long as he is willing and wants help, and is fighting for his life, that's where the support comes in.
If he is still actively using you being there for him will only cushion his use. Each time he shoots heroin, he IS playing Russian roulette.  
Heroin, has no mercy
Most IV heroin addicts have to fall hard. I know these words are hard to take in,  it is the reality of the drug.
Heroin changes the brain chemistry,  educate yourself the best you can on heroin addiction.
I had to force myself to watch videos to know where my sons life was...its heart ripping
My son told me it took only one time to shoot up before it owned him, also that he too became addicted to the needle.
If I were to go back to the beginning of his addiction, knowing where we have been, there is not a doubt in my mind, that I would make his addiction HIS problem right from the beginning.  I would make him responsible for his actions.  not me doing it for him.
My words to him would be and will be if he should relapse ( he knows this) I will fully be there for your recovery, but I refuse to watch you kill yourself, I will not allow him in my life as an active addict.  It may seem selfish, but its the only way I can survive his choice.
Those are words I will stand by with my son for our life time.
There is so little REAL help out there, we as parents need to almost look for the opportunity.  Its very sad.
My sons final time, he slit his wrist at my kitchen table, there were pills scattered all over the counter.  My youngest daughter is disabled, she needs several drugs to stay alive.  My son was her world, and she his.  The simple fact that he ate her pills to die...told a tale.
I had the last opportunity, and I took full advantage this time.  
He was taken away, to the psych ward.  I was contacted by a crisis counselor.  He asked me several times if I was willing to take my son in on his release.  I was beyond broken and refused.
It was my refusal that lead the counselor to get him help.
My disabled daughter struggles hard over what she saw.  She 2 years later had a total melt down.  It effects us more than we know.
With my refusal...my son for the FIRST time in his addicted life, was given REAL help.  He was diagnosed with ADHD, even thought I fought that all his life trying to get someone to hear me when he was a child, it took severe actions for someone to actually take the time.  He was aggressively treated and put on medication along with suboxone.  He went to jail after the psych ward for several months.  While my mind told me I needed to be there for him...my heart wouldn't let me.
I cut ALL communication for many months.  
He was horrified at the thought that I let him go, gave up on him.  
Not at all...I loved him to much.  I nearly loved him to death.  You will hear those words here many times.
My pain turned to anger, yes when I let him go...like he let me go, he couldn't handle the pain.  
With medication for adhd and his suboxone, he was able to feel normal.  He did have to do court ordered out patient, meetings, self help.  He struggled with all, but because he wanted a new life and with the subs he was able to get through it.  Within 6 months, he started to wean down..at his pace, he also started self help groups, where he learned his triggers, but he...his mind needed to be ready to learn...his biggest trigger.. was my home.
When I knew he wanted this...I gave him my all with my eyes wide open.  I knew I would never let myself go so low again.  He never moved back home, still to this day...Im not sure he could do it here.
When my attitude changed, so did his.
Its a long hard road, I firmly believe the change begins with us.
Youre learning, your backing away...I was taught to emotionally distance myself.  Very hard to do, when numbness kicked in it made it a bit more doable  
This is a process for us too, we are as addicted to them as they are to their drug.  We need to learn a different way of life.
You will never abandon your child, you just need to back away with love.

Stay close...your asking all the right questions, we will guide you to the best of our ability...that's a promise.
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Thank you soo much! As I travel on this road wiping my tears I feel soo alone, soo misunderstood yet I sense the presence of all that have traveled and continue to travel in my shoes. I have reached the threshold of emptiness, once it takes me over I will be numb - in a guilty way I cannot wait to reach it - to just let go and know the higher powers of our world will steer him in  his direction! My other two children need my attention as they have different issues of their own.....boy did my childhood mask a screwed up world - and I was friends with the devil!!!
Thanks again for your openness
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Your not misunderstood or alone here, we've all walked in your shoes.  We know how hard it is to bring yourself to an ok state.
Were here for you, others will join.
rjrmom and liriomorado, are new to the other side, they both came here, in a very desperate state, as I did 4 years ago.
With each others help, we were able to find level ground.  Not one of us know where life will go...we pray for continued recovery, but know this is a life long battle.  
I may be here tomorrow, looking for support., its our biggest asset.

First of all please don't feel guilty.  
Our guilt helps us to find excuses for their addiction.  
We did not make them do what they do.  For a very long time I tried to find the "reason" for my sons use, what did I do or not do ?  
I could come up with many. His younger sister very sick from birth...I didn't have the time with him at a young age...did I neglect him ?  My husband and I split...was that the reason ?  We can beat ourselves silly trying to figure it out.  
As I look back over my childhood, while I lived a sheltered life, I also went through many traumatic events in a child's eye...I didn't turn to drugs.
They say its an addictive personality... I believe we all have some sort of addiction.  I can look at all my family, my friends each has there own addiction, while it may not be harmful...it is an addiction non the less.
Abuse is top of the list...my son was over protected, no abuse.
Chemical imbalance...hmmm, if our addicts are lucky enough to get that far with a diagnosis many have some form of chemical imbalance.
Im sure it was around when we were kids too.
Is there a real reason ??
Availability...epidemic.
Different drugs in life today.  
Whos fault is it ?  
The guilt is not ours to hold.  
I was given the name Gabor mate...you tube him, " the addicted mind" very informative.

Stay busy...stay with us,  while you may need to do this at your pace, we will walk with you.  I was told 4 years ago what I NEEDED to do.  I was stubborn, I felt no one knew my son...how could they know, right ?
While they didn't know my son...they KNEW addiction.  Its the same story.  They told me step by step where it would go...they were right.
It was I that was in denial.  
My son was/ still is my life.  We always were very close.
Our kids have Huge hearts, maybe part of the connection, not sure how to comfort it when it hurts.
The words here sometimes seem to be so cruel, not the way they are meant...  We're just not ready to hear them.
The people who have walked before us, know the pain....while no one wants to hurt another here, we feel if we can help to prevent the agony we endured for just one, our experience is not in vain.
In my case...it took my son and I to walk the Hard road.  I learned a very painful lesson along the way.  Many need to do it this way, just to know in their heart they gave their all.
In the case of addiction, we as parents giving our all only hurt our kids more.
It is truly all about learning a new way to love.
Your son is not living with you now ?
Is he with family, friends ?
He has stolen from many, are you considering letting him move in with you ?
If that's the case, eyes wide open...ok.  
Some times its all we need to be able to see a clearer picture.
You need to try what feels right to you, we will Never Judge and will be here to pick up the pieces if needed.
While it might not seem like a lot to you...you are making progress.  
Continue to face forward...little by little you will get there.
Sorry for my long posts...I don't seem to know how to do it simple :)
Do something for you today...take your mind as far away from your pain your son as possible.
feel comfort, in knowing your not alone...
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I misread your last post...Guilt, never feel guilt in any way.  
Its ok, to make your life ok, for you, your girlfriend and your other children...they need you too :)
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I do realize that you have all been where I am as I did read many past posts, that is what made it so easy to post my story.

I am very open-minded and although I have felt some guilt I never blame myself for his use, even though his mother did due to my use of prescription pain meds. I had back surgeries and procedures, but I know there were issues prior, my son even assured me of that. he has admitted to stealing all my work tools and selling them - to the pawn shop where I found out an old coworker bought them from him. I thought he was ready then because it took a lot for him to admit that, but I was wrong. I believe my son loves and respects me, He had a good life as a child and I shared time with him as a supportive father in sports and long ice hockey trips. I never forced him, I am a coach and understand how pressure ruins the athlete. I worked a lot but always shared time with my kids. My son felt he was the cause of my failed marriage when he was released from prison, but I assured him it was not due to him as  we just grew apart (we had our 3rd child at age 23, so we didn't get time to ourselves).

After his OD last Monday he stayed with his mom for a few days, I did not see him over Christmas, and he went to a new sober living house on Friday. It is in the same area as his last one and he is waiting for me to give him his Christmas gift from his Grandfather so he can pay for his first week, but I will not do that. I am going to hold on to it for now.

My confusion begins again.......when is it okay to support him? he is in a sober living house but does that constitute my support? Or do I set a time frame of a year or so that he remains clean? In his eyes he is trying, but I know whenever he avoids me he is up to no good, I know his behavior and have been spot on every time I have a gut instinct.

He is not allowed to live with me, my girlfriend and my older son refuse to live with him and I support that. I just told my older son that if he could stay clean for a year and his behavior was stable I would consider him living with us if and only if everyone was ok with it and if he was actively getting support. I totally relate to him never being able to live in the house he grew up in,,,,for he lived there alone for a bit and made many bad choices in that house.
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Im glad your here...

Your son does love and respect you, don't ever doubt that.  They don't want to hurt us.  
My son hated who he was, he just couldn't fight his way out.

Is your son on parole/ probation ?
Is it his idea for the sober house ?
The more you write the more I get the feeling your son IS trying.
Do you know how he got what he od'd on, was it heroin ?

Its GREAT that you have that gut instinct....always follow that, it will not lie to you.
The hardest thing is to separate the gut from the heart.
If he wants his Christmas gift from grandpa to pay for his first week that might be a good idea, as that is taking his money to pay for his recovery, making him responsible...BUT do not give it to him.  Tell him you will pay for it from his money, if there is extra, you hold it....see what his reaction to that will be. If hes ok with it, that to me would be a very positive sign.

He feels he is trying, what do you feel ?
I think he is or he wouldn't be in a sober living house.  So yes...this does constitute emotional support...no money though.
This might be the time, they need that benefit of the doubt when they try, this is when you don't turn your back...the words you were told.
The saying support only their recovery, not their addiction, is a good rule to follow.  As of now, he is in recovery.
There is no time limit...it will take time to regain trust.  He will need to prove himself to you, you'll know, don't expect a month a year...only when it feels right.  That will all come to you over time.
I feel each attempt, is one step closer.  
Most relapse several times before they get it.
I think a good approach to follow, is if hes clean and giving it a good shot...be there for him, but don't make it easy. ( no money :) Let him work to rebuild his life, dont give him what he needs.  They need to do it for themselves, it gives them a sense of accomplishment.
If he relapses...you tell him you can not stand by and watch him destroy his life, therefore you back away.  When its done enough and consistent, they eventually will get it, that it is made their problem, not yours.  Their choice.  If you feel he is using...he probably is.
When you get yourself in a better spot, as to his role and yours...it will become a little easier each day.

I would seriously consider some kind of maintenance for awhile.
My son tried So many times, always caved, it wasn't until suboxone that he was able to let heroin go.
Suboxone is hard to come off of and it is replacing one drug with another...BUT, it is controlled.  He will be followed by a doctor, weaned down at his pace, he will feel normal and able to function, both mentally and physically. This give him time to heal.
Your son will need to want to do it though, if he isn't ready...many will sell it to buy their drug.
Also some kind of support, meetings, self help...what ever works for him and makes him comfortable, that is a must.
They need to relearn life.
I know it seems so overwhelming right now.  Its little steps at a time for both he and all that love him.

The main and only thing is learn how to support ONLY his recovery

Your getting it, as I said...your asking all the right questions :)





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Yes he is on parole for many years..... he has 3 or 4 felony's on him.......broke into houses( at that point he just turned 18 and was using pills at the time - no heroin. He owes just under 30K in restitution and is 21 years old now.

The Sober living is something he chose to do and it is in the next county from us (about an hr away) a week ago today he had to visit his PO, he told me he had a ride, however, his ride was "called into work" so my Son took public trans...had a successful visit & urine so on the way home he decided to stop in N Philly to pick up a few.....It was heroin and I think it had phentonoyl in it? His Mom was proud of him for using public trans......I was suspicious due to the fact I told him I would take him. I do not ike the fact that he gets rides with friends and now house mates, it is a broken system to me. The first thing he told me upon arriving at his house two weeks ago is that if he stays clean for 4 months he can become a house leader!!!!???

So I never know when he is trying, but I get gut feelings and to this point I would bet that he has not tried very hard due to the fact he keeps putting himself in areas closer to the sources. He is a creative kid, he will earn just enough money by doing hair cuts as he is a self taught barber to some extent. The perfect job for him would have been an aluminum siding salesmen in the early 70's or a high end wall street professional,,,,,,,he is that good!!! Teacher's, coaches, parent's friends, relatives, PO's & even his childhood psychologist....he's gotten over on all of them all and I was the only one that sensed it. It's a role for him, and even though he was soo talented in sports he never had that sense of confidence, always wanted to impress just a little more. My Girlfriend has known him since he was 5 and she is torn because she loves him yet hates who he has become. Last Christmas I was in Wawa with him (local store) a guy on a motor cycle had $2 in change for gasoline, the lady at the register told me that he just used his gift card to put $8 of gas in the guys motorcycle......this is while he was actively using.

I am trying to get him to volunteer at an SPCA or something with Animals....he loves them and I think it will give him a stronger sense of self, he agrees yet will not pursue..... I could go on & on.

Last night I told him I will call today and arrange for payment, then I am done. He is very angry with me and told me he would pray for me. I thanked him and told him I would do the same. I too have come upon troubled times with my sister (big enabler - his aunt) and my daughter, he seen it as a guilt trip, I told him it is truth not guilt. So I am going to give him time to himself for now and work on me.
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Deb,
I don't know if you remember me or not...I have the daughter who was using heroine and, I think the last time I posted she was home with us and VERY angry.  I wanted to update you and tell you what we've done.  I searched the internet for all the information I could find.  I talked with some users.  I spoke to some counseling centers and counselors.  I found a counselor who's husband works in the prison industry and he and her are lobbying the Alaska legislators to make repeat offenders/users get this shot called Vivitrol.  I found a product called Naltrexone.  In Europe they are using this as a 6 month implant.  I AM HERE TO TELL YOU...it works!!!  Vivitrol is a naltrexone shot given once a month.  The FDA has not approved the 6 month implant...I've heard that somewhere in the U.S. you can find a 2 month implant...I couldn't find it.  We are getting the once a month Vivitrol shot.  I have my daughter back!!!!!  One day after taking the shot, all symptoms of the heroine were gone. NO CRAVINGS. She actually told me that she likes what the shot does...it blocks the opioid receptors in the brain.  She doesn't think about it.  If she were to use, it would do no good.  She could use as much as she wants and it wouldn't give her anything...blocked!  She had to detox first and then the shot was the answer to our prayers.  It is a 12 month plan.  12 shots with counseling have nearly a 100% success rate.  I speak with the drug rep who educated me often.  I'm trying to get him here to give training to our doctors.  My daughter is the first person here to be given this shot.  They use Suboxin here.  Suboxin is horribly abused according to the users i spoke with.  This shot cannot be sold or skipped.  We can see when the shot starts to wear off at the end of the month...but just in time, she gets another.
My daughter has a good job, a GREAT boyfriend and new friends here.  She is a joy to have back!  I'm a bit scared to see what happens at the end of the year of treatment but continually read that it will be good. The doctors here are dealing with many heroine users and are terribly un-educated in how to deal with them.  They look at them as a lower, self-induced, scum.  We have one doctor who was willing to do whatever we wanted to try and thats when we found Vivitrol.  The shot is expensive and most counselors will say that their users cannot afford it.  If you go to Vivitrol.com they have a $500 coupon and medicaid will pay for it.  Obamacare should cover it.  If you have any questions you should call Michael Eldridge at 907-229-7064.  He is the drug rep that has helped me get the shot here and pay for it.  He is also lobbying congress to get this medicine used instead of suboxine.  He has some horrible stories of what doctors have told him why they wont, but, I'll let him tell you.  
I have thought about you and all the help you gave me when I was at my worst.  i have wanted to check-in with  you and let you know how it's going.  I'm great at thinking about it, but, not great at follow-thru.  I read that you are still the angel helping as many as will ask!!  Please let me know if there is anything more I can do to give back.  I don't know how to post this to help other, but, feel free to share it with anyone who might be a
able to use it.

Thank you!!
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I didn't at all forget you, Ive thought of you daily
I cant tell you the warm feeling I have right now, and yeah a few tears !! :)
When I read posts like this, it truly warms my heart.
We all come here so desperate, so broken, stories like yours give the hope that is so desperately needed.
Im SO GLAD you returned but even happier your family is whole again.  What a wonderful feeling, and if any one hasn't patted YOU on the back, Im sending you one !!

I have heard of the vivitrol shot, but have had no experience with it, wasn't an option when we went through it.  There is a mom here that took her son out of the country for it...I believe his is 6 months, but he IS doing amazing on it, the last I heard :)  
I do agree suboxone is not always the right thing can be abused, but if they are ready suboxone, saves lives,  this shot needs to be more available, so happy your pushing for it.  
It takes someone in our shoes to make people hear us and it sounds like your doing a great job !!
The dad above your last post, I have been pm-ing him...im going to pass this information on to him, if he doesn't see it here, I want to make sure he gets it
Also if you go to the top of this page...on the right the green box, says post a question.  I think that would be a GREAT place to start.  Will start a new thread with all the information.
Dad...to you I have to say, Im proud of you, you did something about it.
You have your little girl !!
Don't worry about the end of the year, enjoy EVERY minute of EVERY day.  A year makes a BIG difference
So My Friend...Happy New Year, and I hope this is only the beginning of many blessed years to come.
Keep us posted...OK :)


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My son went into a rehab for a $100 dollar day heroin addiction. Insurance said he did not in patient rehab after 4 days. I gave him an extra week by using my credit card. I know he needs more time, so does he. What's with the insurance industry?  We pay big bucks for protection and they turn their backs on us. I am so mad!  I can only do this one more week. I am so upset!
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Most insurances will cover inpatient treatment including medicaid.  The trouble is getting your child to stay there until they detox.  If your child is under 18 then you can check them in and "try" to make them stay...you just about have to stay with them so they don't run.  We chose to go to the emergency room where they looked at us like junkies but gave us some less powerful opiads.  They did not stop the detox pain but helped reduce it.  We started off with 10mg Vicodin and slowly reduced (over a week) to 5mg.  My daughter was in horrible pain and agony...something I think she NEEDED to feel!  Fortunately we live in a place where there was no place to run and we stayed with her every minute for a week and almost every minute the second week. She lied and HATED us!!  The anger coming out of that child was unholy!  Even after the second week she was angry and horrible to be around.  She blamed us for everything and all we were trying to do was help.  I got some good advice from an addict...she told me that while my daughter was going through that was time to just be a loving dad!  Do not judge her...do not question her...do not argue with her.  Give her hugs and tell her you will be there no matter what.  It was great advice not only for my daughter but for us too.  It took much of the burden off of us.  She only wanted to stay in bed.  She only ate very little and irregularly.  She did not want to be around us.  We would not let her out of the house.  She is over 18 and could have done anything she wanted...but, I told her that it was a one way door.  If she went out, she could not come back.  Hardest damn thing I've ever had to tell my child!!!!  She bought it!  Once she had detoxed, the anger and hate was still there.  I went to our doctor who only knew to use Suboxin to treat heroine addiction. I had learned about Naltrexone.  It's an opiad inhibitor.  It blocks the affects of the heroine.  This is SO important because of this:  They will have that drug in thier body for almost a year.  It lives in their fat cells and many things can cause it to jump out again.  It was explained like this to me:  Heroine is a living thing.  It is doing everything it can to survive in her body. The only way it can do that is to get more...that is why the cravings are so bad! It will cause her to lie, steal, and put herself into horrible places to get more for it to survive. Enter Naltrexone.  In Europe and Australia they have an implant that lasts 6 months.  It is a one year treatment.  The 6 month implant would be a god send...but, in the U.S. the FDA has not approved it.  Here it can be taken in pill form like suboxine or methadone.  The problem with this is that she can skip a dose and use heroine and then use the pill when she cannot use.  This is the way most use suboxine or methadone.  We found Vivitrol.  It is a Naltrexone shot that lasts a month.  It is a 12 month treatment as well but in shot form.  Medicaid and most insurances cover it.  Mine did.  We talked with our doctor and she had not heard of it but was willing to do whatever we wanted to try.  We ordered the shot and it was given to her.  The shot is expensive $1200, but, on the Vivitrol web site has a $500 coupon and is covered by insurance.  The shot has been reported to be painful...it can be.  A drug rep taught me how it should be administered.  It has to be refrigerated which makes it thick and cold.  Take it out of the fridge the day before it is used...let it get to room temp.  Have her lay on her side.  My daughter says it didn't hurt at all.  
Here is the conclusion...in a single day...her entire mood and attitude started to change!  By the second day we had our daughter back!!  It was blocking the drug from her brain.  She was thinking clearly aagain and not wanting to run anymore.  If she used now, she would get nothing from it...it would be blocked.  For us it worked!!  Sheis in the middle off the treatment and she has a job and everything is going well.  I hope this helps and maybe you all can get to a place where this could be tried!  Don't just listen to a doctor...they only get 4 hours of addiction training in Med School...it's not their fault.  Some of them actually make alot of money off of Suboxin and therefore will not entertain anything else.  Suboxine and Methadone work...but thee user has to WANT it to work or it can be abused.  As long as this shgot is given monthly, they will not use and they can get their head clear enough to think logically again. Let me know if I can help anymore.  I know what you are feeling and it is horrible.  You can get through it.  There is hope.  TELL your doctor what you want to do and if they won't then find another that will.  I talked with counselors at detox centers, users, and doctors.  I was given the number to a drug rep who educated me about vivitrol...
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I'm still hanging in there. Thing are going good with my son 32 days clean. A lot has happen in between. Thank you God and my friend Deb on this site.
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Hey there, been looking for you, glad your here !!!

WOW...32 days !!!
I am SO HAPPY for you, for your son.  
Im sure you're finally finding some peace now, its a big relief, on this end also, to know your in a better spot
I think of every one of you here daily, yes, my friends, you will always be :)

When you get a chance, fill us in ?  
LOVE to hear good stories, we all do :)
Stay Close...
Sending a Hug to You !!
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Thinkin of you hon...Hope your doing alright.
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Deb,
It was hard to come back on but I needed some support today so I read the recent posts and it is helpful to see some positive progress for some of the parents. My update is not so good.
I was busy during the holidays and I didn't see my son until yesterday. I met him to give him some warmer clothes. I wish I hadn't done it. He looks terrible and I am worried he is just killing himself. So thin and ragged looking. I can't stop crying as I type this.
What if he is so far gone that he can't pull himself out of this place? I thought and hoped he would come to his senses sooner rather than later but he just listens without responding when I tell him I want to help him get into a rehab program.
My heart is breaking and I can't believe there is nothing I can do to fix the peril he is in. It feels like I  am walking in the darkest night surrounded by the deepest sadness. I was doing OK until I saw him. It feels like I am watching him die in front of me.
I just don't know what to do anymore. I feel like I have turned him out to sea with a leaky boat and I am standing there watching it take on more and more water.
I am sorry I am so broken right now. I just don't know if I can do this much longer.  
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Avatar_m_tn
I'm in the same boat with my daughter.  Day 7.  Horrible, no words.
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Avatar_m_tn
I'm in the same boat with my daughter.  Day 7.  Horrible, no words.
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Avatar_f_tn
Themother53,
I am so sorry for your broken heart as well. I know that we can't fix them. I know it has to begin with them. I get all that mentally.
But emotionally the standing by and letting it play out is excruciatingly painful for all of us.
I know that all my love and support for the past two plus years didn't do anything to change my son's addiction. I know I was loving him to death on my watch under my roof. That is why he had to go.
But when I saw him yesterday and I saw how thin he is....it terrified me. I actually think he could die of starvation.
I just have to trust that he will find a moment of clarity where he will realize he needs to grab on to the lifeboat and get the hell out of the deep water. That is the only thing I have to hold on to today because I don't see anything else encouraging right now.
Let's try to get through this place together. Everyone on here has been so supportive and I feel like they are ahead of us with flashlights to show us the way.
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Avatar_f_tn
Themother53,
I am so sorry for your broken heart as well. I know that we can't fix them. I know it has to begin with them. I get all that mentally.
But emotionally the standing by and letting it play out is excruciatingly painful for all of us.
I know that all my love and support for the past two plus years didn't do anything to change my son's addiction. I know I was loving him to death on my watch under my roof. That is why he had to go.
But when I saw him yesterday and I saw how thin he is....it terrified me. I actually think he could die of starvation.
I just have to trust that he will find a moment of clarity where he will realize he needs to grab on to the lifeboat and get the hell out of the deep water. That is the only thing I have to hold on to today because I don't see anything else encouraging right now.
Let's try to get through this place together. Everyone on here has been so supportive and I feel like they are ahead of us with flashlights to show us the way.
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Awww, I wish I could hug you right now.
If hes not ready for help, nothing you do or say will change his mind, hes going to need to do this his way, Im so sorry.
You Need to take care of you, ok
did you check into any type of support ?  
I know there are some support groups on line, the more the better right now.  
Please don't isolate...force yourself into life
I know there is little comfort in these words, but the slide you see in him, it happens to all our kids that wont except help, before they hit bottom.

Did you see despiratedads post above ?  The vivitrol shot ?
You can still text your son right ?
Send him the link www.vivitrol.com.  
You look it up too, do a search to see if its offered near you...and get that information to him.
If its in his text messages...he just might look at it in a desperate moment
Please don't give up hope
Honey, the fall happens when we think they are too far gone.  
I know how devastating this is...we want instant results, were only human.  Its going to take time, painful time, please don't let him pull you with him.  
Try to distance yourself, seeing him now will destroy you...it already is.
You were doing ok, when he was out of sight...try to let that happen again.
Don't let yourself go low...He will NEED you, when hes ready.
If the forum is hard to come to, send a message...Im here for you
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Avatar_m_tn
I'm on the phone with my insurance company....this drug is covered.  Any bad news regarding it?  I'll check back.
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Avatar_f_tn
Deb,
I just can't get how sick he looked out of my mind. I just wanted to grab him and take him to the hospital and tell them to help him. I wanted to run away with him and take him somewhere so he couldn't get drugs for a month and see if I could get my son into a safe place where he could see through clear eyes. I thought about taking him away on a cruise across the Atlantic where he might be sane wen we got off the dock in London. It sounds funny and I sort of laughed about that one because it was such an absurd solution.
I know I sound like a crazy woman but I am sick with grief over what he is doing to himself.
I am able to cope as long as I stay occupied with my daughters and my grandchildren. When things get slow and quiet, that is when I go to dark places.
I will try to stay busy the rest of the week. I can pull myself out of this but it is always there occupying at least 20 percent of my mind and 100 percent of my heart.
I know you understand....  
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1530493_tn?1410060236
I too am so sorry for your pain...please hang in there.

I attached to one mom from here when I was in the same spot you and strongerone are at this very moment.  
That mom was in the same place as me.
We fought the battle together, every step of the way.  
Im not sure who pulled who along...it doesn't matter, because we both got there.
We watched our kids, my son, her daughter slowly dying  in front of our eyes.  Neither of us could find hope that our kids could do it.
We were forced to let them go near the same time.
Her daughter was the first to get clean one month before my son.
2 Years later, they are both moving on in life in a very positive way.
God blessed both her and I as grandmas together too.  
Her daughter gave birth to a precious angel, a beautiful little girl one month before my sons precious little angel, my granddaughter was born.
God works in mysterious ways...please hold faith in that
When it seems there is no more hope, life CAN do a total flip

Hugs to you both !!
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Avatar_f_tn
I researched Vivitrol several months back and the thing that scared me was the warning indications from the drug company. They say that if a patient uses opiates while on vivitrol it can cause death or coma. It seems that unless a person is totally committed to recovery , it could be dangerous. I could see my son trying to get high after a period of time and OD'ing if he was on the medication.
I wanted to know from others as well if this could happen.
I know the patient would not be able to feel the effects of opiates while on the drug but it wouldn't stop the opiates from affecting the heart and brain functions. That is what scared me away from this approach. I would love to hear from someone who actually knows whether this concern is valid or not.  
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Get in touch with despiratedad above, hes done a lot of research, his daughter just started the shot, im sure he can answer many of your questions
Also Marka67 has had her son on it for several months, she might be able to give you his experience with it too
And to your question yes, death or coma can happen, as well as with heroin.  The shot blocks the craving.  If he wants to still use, he will probably resist the shot

Hang in there and stick with themother53, it will help you both
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Avatar_m_tn
Is he on any meds to help him STAY off the heroine?  I can tell you that Vivitrol is helping my daughter SO much!  let me know if you want more details about it.  She truly has no cravings or relapses.
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Avatar_m_tn
First of all I want to say that I'm extremely happy for your daughter, you and your family. This road is not easy. No, he is not in any medication. He quit pretty much cold turkey. Last year when we found out that he was doing heroine, we  took him to a psychiatrist and the Dr. Put him on suboxen. He only took the medication for about a week and started using again. A couple months later we took him back to the same Dr. And he prescribe him klonopin for wd. he recommend vivitrol but my son didn't wanted it. I wish he would consider the shot. He says he is doing good. I do have a major problem. him and his girlfriend like to drink and the worries me. It has been 10 years struggling with him, from pot, to drinking, to pills and then heroine. In our families there is no history of drugs or alcohol. We just don't understand how he went down the road. For the mercy of God he still has a Job and he has so many problems that he needs to resolve. I





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Avatar_m_tn
Hi Deb thanks you for the hug I need it. Still not over yet. Yes, I do feel more peace. My son is doing good not using but, he is drinking and I just don't feel good about it. It is not every day but it worries me. Thank you!!!!!
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Hi to you again. ..I like seeing you here. ..especially in a  better place :)
One step at a time. .
I know of  few,  doing it with a few drinks and or smoking pot.
I'm told its calming. ..I don't know I'm sure many feel its one bad habit replacing another, but at this point I'd go with the lesser of 2 evils.   As long as he's not drowning himself in alcohol, he may be using it to take the edge off.
Klonopin  can also be misused,  causing yet another addiction,  same with suboxone.  It all comes down to them wanting to do it the right way.
He seems to be doing well right now. ...thats awesome,  as many days as he has cold turkey.   Just watch,  if you suspect offer the shot again and again.  
My son tried suboxone several times with no success. ..the last time clicked. Once or kids are giving recovery an honest attempt....give him your all.
Just a little side note here.  My youngest daughter has severe uncontrolled seizures. ..I'm fighting for her to be allowed to legally use pot, here in NY. she's been on heavy duty seizure meds most of her life, nearly killed her Nov 9 th.  She's been highly toxic to the point of psychosis, I pray her mind is not fried (I do see more of her than I did a few months ago ) and thanks to despiratedad, I feel a bit more peace,  knowing I too can fight this fight.
We can do this...when my daughter is in a better spot,  she WILL be going to pot.
The lesser of 2 evils ;)
Hang in there. .it's all we can do.  It's more peaceful knowing we don't need to do it alone.
You'll find life long friends here
Never ending prayers to all of us who suffer over our kids
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Avatar_f_tn
Deb,
I just wanted to jump back on and let you know that I am in a better place mentally than I was a few days ago. I have not heard from my son even though I texted him a couple of times to remind him that I am here for him when he is ready. I think, given his lack of response , that he is angry with me and trying to "punish" me with no response. I don't take it personally and I don't obsess about why I haven't heard back from him the way I used to. It is what it is....
I have forced myself to stay really busy so there isn't a lot of down time to worry. I think the corner I have turned is in finally realizing that we needed to be away from each other if he is ever going to decide to fight for himself. I realize that I was just adding to the anxiety in the situation and we were both suffering because of my desperation.
I can still get back in that really sad and scary place when I think about his health or the other possibilities but I can't control the outcome any more now than I could when he was in the next room.
Your heartfelt counsel means the world to me. I know that this may take a very long time and I have to keep living my life regardless of what my son's life becomes.
Tomorrow I might be back at the bottom but today I am focusing on myself.
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I've been worried about you,  your update means a lot to me. ..Thank You.

Time....it does heal,  we just need the strength,  to give us that time.
I know how badly you've been struggling,  can feel every bit of it in your words.
It's not easier said than done, in many situations. ..yours is one.
Please know your on the right track, you've excepted it can only come from him. ..it's not easy,  but it's a very important step in recovery. ..Your own.  
Your recovery will be as important as his, in this fight.
You mentioned you felt he maybe punishing you by not responding to you.  
I felt that too, my son did the same to me..
I just want to run this by you,   this was something I didn't think of at the time, when I was reminding my son that I was there for him when he was ready for help.
This came from my son after about a year clean....
He told me he always knew I was there for him, my messages here and there were all he needed, to know that I was still thinking of him, he knew he wasn't alone, he could continue on.  
It wasn't until he no longer heard from me,  that he started to feel unsure...THAT bothered him.
Theyre so use to us always being there, when were not. ...they take notice.
It makes total sense to me now,  but I didn't see it that way at the time.
How can we. ..our minds,  emotions are every where.
Your going through the " parental process", we learn as we move on. . ...I made MANY mistakes,  I only wanted my son back,  just like you.   I tried the only way I knew how, that way didn't work with "our"  addiction, I had to let it become his.
You HAVE turned the corner.
continue to keep busy. ..learn to be selfish...do for you.
Give him his space,  he needs to learn how he's going to do this for him.
avoid contact with him,  it's only going to hurt you.
I know it feels heartless ( if only we had an off switch ) that's exactly what we need.
while I know it feels like peace is still a long way off,  your more than half way there.
NEVER doubt his love for you ...that will not change,  love...it only grows.  
You know how we feel we couldn't love or kids more then we already do ?
There's a different kind of love on the other side of addiction.  It's something that can't be explained.  When you feel it,  you'll look back to today and know without a doubt you gave love that you didn't know you had in you.
Stay strong mom. ..
Btw, I read your response to RKR, what a great source of support YOU are :)
Prayers & hugs to you
Stay close...here for you
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Avatar_f_tn
Deb,
Your response means so much to me as I know you have walked the same trail.
I am going to stop texting him for the reasons you mentioned above. I don't think it matters a damn to him to get the messages and it doesn't help me to send them. I am going to force myself to stop any communication as, to your point. he already knows I would die for him and he knows where to find me when he is ready. Moving on from the texting ....thank you for reinforcing what I already knew but needed to hear from another set of eyes.
I cleaned his room today. Changed comforters, area rugs, put away many of his personal items so when I go there it won't pull as hard on me. I felt good doing it. No sadness.
I think I have turned a corner in protecting my heart a little better. I know the triggers that make me sad and I try to avoid going there in my mind. I am sleeping better with the help of Benadryl about every third night when I can tell I am a little worried.
The weather in San Francisco has not been cold and that helps me because if he is spending some nights in his car (I don't think he is) he won't freeze. The weather was one of the things that was so upsetting to me several weeks ago because it was freezing and I think the warmest thing he had with him was a hoodie. Isn't it crazy how we get so twisted up over such little things when we are so distressed? He is a full adult and I was frantic because it was so cold at night. It makes me realize how much of a grip his dysfunction had/has on me.
I can not tell you how much your guidance means to me. I am going to the nursery today and buy a few plants to keep me busy in my garden. I will be thinking of your friendship while I plant them.

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I'm glad to hear your getting yourself in a better spot.
Or minds can play major tricks. ..the what if's can be so damaging.
I still find myself going to the what ifs, but most of the time the things we worry ourselves to death over,  don't materialize.
We have to have faith
Stay close, stay strong. ..
Hope your garden looks beautiful :)
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Avatar_f_tn
I have a 22 year old daughter that graduated school immediately after graduating she got a job and she started hanging around a co worker all the time going to her house and spending the night. when she would come home she was always on edge and never happy thats when I suspected that she may be gay after about a month of this she finally came out and told me she was a lesbian .she said she was scared to tell me because she didn't think I would approve I kinda suspected this all along so I was fine with it. my daughter was doing really good and was happy she was in a realationship with this woman she had two sons and my daughter loved them this lasted for about six months then my daughter came home and was devastated and said that it was over.I knew this was going to be hard cause it was a first love so I knew it would take alot of patience and love to get her thru It took about two months and my daughter started hanging with her friends she would drink occasionally and smoke marijuanna which I didn't overly excited about because I figured it was a typical thing at her age and it would pass . one day in july2012 she brought a girl friend of hers to our house and we meant her she seemed to be a nice girl and my daughter said they were just friends but as time when on the girl was at our house all the time usually right after work and never wanting to go home said she was abused and had to sleep in basement so we felt bad and said she could stay with us her and my daughter seemed happy. we decided before winter to move closer to her step dads work everything was still going good and we moved got all settled in our new house .Then I started noticing my daughter and her girlfriend staying up all night going out late at night and sleeping all day this went on for awhile and when i would go up to their room they would have windows coverd up food all over place their bedroom was disgusting and of course I told them  this was unaceptable they apologized and said they would start keeping it clean.They both got jobs and were working but were always broke with nothing to show for it and they would stay in there room except when they would go to store to get pads or cigs and come back with nothing and then come down stairs and ask for money for something they supposidely already got . Thats when I suspected something more so when they werent home I would go up to their room and look I started finding spoons that looked burnt and lampshades off with bulbs that looked like something melted on it when I ask them about it they said that it was candle wax . a couple weeks later I noticed there xbox and games were gone i phones the room was still trashed and lots of throw up in trash can from that point things got worse money started missing and our xbox controllers and games disapeared  my daughters bank would call saying her account was overdrawn they both started calling off work .Then the fighting started all nght i would here banging so I finally decided to stand outside there door and I heard them arguing over who was getting more so I barged in their room and saw my daughter with a turn a kit on her arm pulling kneedle out and throwing thats when I knew they were doing heroine when i saw that I lost it and I told her I wanted them out of my house I was not tolerating this. It was the start of many arguments they left for a couple days and she called me crying asking me could they come home if they got help I said of course .so I called around and got them in an outpatient program with suboxin they seemed to be doing really good they were in treatement for six months and my daughter weened of suboxine and they were good and they were going to get jobs . about two weeks later a police officer showed up at my door and said he was looking for my daughter which she was in the house so I got her the policeman said you kneed to return money or your girls going to jail here they advertised their i phone on craigslist for sale ment the boy took the money and never gave him the phone long store short her girlfriend got put on probation they got jobs again and her girlfriend wasn't going to appointments for probation or drug treatement so a warrant got put out I told them they needed to leave I wasnt getting in trouble so they left in their cars and went on a drug binge my daughter sold her car to a junk yard for two hundred dollers for a bundle . after selling the car and using for days they were broke starving and running out of places to stay but still refusing treatment my daughters girlfriend finally went to her mom she took her to po office they put her in jail . my daughter came home said she was going to get sober because her girfriend would get sober in jail and promised this would never do it again my daughters girfriend got out they came back with me and everything seemed good my daughter got a job and her girlfriend was going to her therapy and group she was peing clean for parole so they lowered her monitering they got her girlfriends car fixed were paying fines and insurance things looked good but that didn't last my daughter started was getting payed on friday and broke by saturday barrowing money off of family members the big explosion happend two days ago when my daughters sister came to me and said mom i need to tell you something but i don't know if i should I said you better she said amandas pregnant I was like nice joke emily but thats not possible cause your sisters gay duh it hit me immediately I went upstairs and the argumented started here she slept with her drug dealer for dope . I am so brokenhearted ive been thru this for four years now with both of them . she said she hasn't done anything in two weeks shes a month pregnant and says she doesn't want it and is going to have an abortion because it will ruin her life and any happiness and her future and she can't afford to take care of it and she can't even take care of herself. I told her I felt that even though she mad a mistake that she needs to own up and take care of this baby its not its fault . shes not working and we have been arguing because she wants me to pay for it and I told her I cannot do that and i won't help her get rid of my grandchild and i don't believe in abortion . she has been rude and nasty and tells me if i won't help then get out of her business and she wants nothing to do with me. I can't do this anymore and neither can her step father her and her girlfriends addiction has ruined our family and put us in financial ruin I'm tired of arguing i'm tired of the blame game I am sick of all of it I feel like my daughters goneI don't even know her anymore. the only time were good enough is money or for a place to live or to bail her out of situations shes in.I started reading peoples stories on here and I didn't feel alone finally somone is going thru what I am. I love her with all my heart but Ive decided that if she does the abortion just so she can keep being an heroine addict she has to leave my home . I can't even look at her or talk to her right now I have been having nightmares about the baby and I told her I would help her if she keeps it with anything but she said if I cant get the money up for abortion then if I have to have it I'm getting rid of it and youl never get to see it at all. shes made me so guity Ive felt like ending it so I don't have to deal with her . I don't know how I'm going to live with this or forgive her I feel like if i don't stop her its my faullt and how is my grandchild gonna feel that I coudnt save him. I am so heartbroken please any advice  
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1530493_tn?1410060236
Hi sweetie...I'm glad you found your way here, you've been through a lot, let us be here for you.
When you get that feeling of wanting to "end it", is time for you to take action,  for you.
We can not change any ones way of thinking or their actions.... especially an addicts.
We have to let our kids live and learn,  we can be there for then,  we can guide them,  but only they can make the choices for their life.
You read some of our stories, every one here has walked in the same shoes one way or another.
Dealing with one addict (your child ) is tough enough.  Dealing with their other half also being an addict is more than enough.  While we have good intentions  and want to help all involved,  the fact that they are both addicted, will put you over the edge.
They feed off of each other. I'm not sure 2 addicts together can get clean together.  If one is stronger they will normally be brought down by the one that struggles.
I was in a similar situation with my son, a long story that I'll try to shorten.
I had dealt with my son's addiction for many years,  it became severe, just like your daughters.  I too was at the place you speak of....I just wanted to end my pain.  A harsh awaken came to me,  I had other children,  grand children,  yet I was letting my son suck the life out of me. I was giving up on life because/ for him and it wasn't changing his ways in any way, he only became more involved in his addiction.
The day came that I knew what I had to do, just to survive. ...I let him go.  
I loved him nearly to death. ..he knew I would give my life for him, I almost did.   I found the strength to tell him,  he was no longer welcome in my life as an active addict, the hardest thing I ever did.
He came back to me about a month later clean,  it was the first time he did it for himself,  not forced by jail time etc.
around 8 months later,  he was struggling to get on his feet, he was still clean working 60 hours a week,  had 1000's of dollars in fines to pay off ( I made him competely responsible for that ) I didn't give him a cent.  After he proved to me he was giving his all,  I allowed him to move back in with me,  until he could afford his own place.  
He stayed clean for one year.  He met a young lady,  that he connected with quickly,  I knew love could be very beneficial  ( a reason to fight on ) or very destructive at this time of his recovery.  It wasn't a choice I could make for him. ...he was near 22, an adult  it was his choice,  I just prayed for the best.  They seemed to complement each other in the beginning. ..he was happy,  I saw something I had never seen in him. They were working on getting a place together.
Eventually...  I got the song and dance that she was emotionally abused by her parents. ..blah blah blah. I fell for it,  I have a big heart.  I let her move in until they were able to move out together.
Within a matter of a few weeks,  if even that long,  I noticed a big change. ..all you described. Up all night sleep all day, I knew what it meant,  I had been there before. I confronted my son,  he tried to deny, but finally broke although I'm sure I will never get the full truth.  I was OK with that. ..it was no longer my life to figure out. ..it was his.
She was an active heroin addict,  they hid her addiction well from me in the beginning.  She was also about 4 months pregnant,  she claimed the baby was my sons.  The only thing my son has ever wanted,  which I never thought I'd see was his own little family.  He was trying to " save" her,  he loved her and the baby she was carrying.
My son went back deep into active addiction, trying to save her.  I tried to put the blame on her,  but it was he to put the needle back in his arm.  Before long I had 2 severe heroin addicts and what I thought to be my grand child suffering.  Once again I was pulled low,  by his choices in life.
I knew I could not help them. ..  together, they were a time bomb. ..I was only hurting them by allowing them in my home together.  I sent my son's girlfriend home to her parents and told them about her addiction.
She wasn't ready to get clean,  even carrying a baby, she used her entire pregnancy.  The baby girl was born 3 months early,  fighting for her life,  she made it,  but was taken away from mom.  Mom is still an active user,  the child wasnt enough to make her quit.  My son found out at birth,  that the baby was not his.  He was devastated.  
He give his all,  to try to save the life of the lady that was going to be his daughters mom, so he thought.
What he got in return, was more than he could handle.
I knew I could not help him with his addiction at my home as we had walked that road once before, my home was his comfort zone,  his main trigger.  
He was very fragile,  his life hung by a thread, I knew at this point I would lose him either to od or suicide.   I knew in my heart it was over,  I found him in a fetal position the night before sobbing,  I held my son in my arms for over 2 hours just rocking him,  no words were said,  as there were no words to say, he finally feel asleep,  just like when I rocked him to sleep as a little guy.
The next morning I checked him before I went to work,  he was still sleeping.  I would only be gone for a few hours,  I thought he would be alright, but I knew he needed major help I also knew that help would be at least a 6 month wait.

He did it for us. ...i came home from work an hour early unexpectedly & found him at my kitchen table ( I have a disabled daughter,  that's takes 100's of pills a month to live ) he ate her pills & slit his wrist.  
We all survived,  I'm not sure how.
While I saw a horrifying sight,  so did my disabled daughter.  It was her un-human scream that I will never forget.  She begged him not to die.  I knew what needed to be done,  she was innocent.  
I let my son go,  and focused on her life.  I knew the only one that could help my son was him.  
He was given all the right help this time ( mental health ).
While I was beyond broken, I existed, it was the non emotion I needed. .numbness helped me survive.  
I cut total communication with my son....we too were toxic together.  I did it for him. ..I loved him too much. We were completely drained we all surrendered  in different ways.
2 years later he is a recovering heroin addict.
He finally got the right help, he was also given an angel, her name is Dakota.  His daughter was born 5 months ago,  she is his reason.  He thrives for her. While I know he will be an addict the rest of his life,  I fully believe Dakota will keep him in recovery.  Dakotas mama is pretty special too :)
my son and I have reconnected in a way,  I didn't know existed, its deep,  the love is something that can't be described. We survived an unimaginable Storm.  I didn't lose his love,  I gained something that people not in our shoes will ever know.
I can't tell you what to do in your situation,  but hope my experience can help guide you.  Please know there is hope when it feels untouchable.  
Also you are not alone here. .we've been through it all,  and are very willing to take your hand.
Prayers always for our kids and the people who love them. ..
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Ugh... I'm just drained.  I wish there were Nar-anon groups as readily available as AA meetings.  I need to share and be with people who understand what's going on here.  I just can't even breath after this last bout of trying to help my 23 year old son.  Man, I put everything into it this  time and I was sweet and loving and supportive and he still went back out and is now living in a homeless shelter, stealing stuff for money.  During the 3 weeks that he stayed with me to home detox, I took him to the dentist and doctor to get his health straightened out.  He has 17 cavities that he needs to get filled and now... it's just not going to happen.   I'm so upset and I can't fix anything or help anybody!!!!!  I too drive around our neighborhood just begging God not to let me see him.  I can't stand this anymore.  
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Hi to you
I'm sorry the spot your in. ..it's so painful.
We can only do so much for them and we will die trying.
Try to get yourself in a better emotional state of mind,  we can't change them,  they have to be ready to quit.  We can some times push them to that stage,  but it take a lot of strength, pain and tough love on our part.
I just read something very interesting about the root cause of addiction, they say isolation pre drug days lead many to abuse drugs , for some reason they felt alone in life.   They also said the key to helping them break the addiction was to surround them with people and love.
My first thought after reading that was this could not have been written by someone that was fighting for the life of a heroin addict.
I did all of that with my son.  He was never isolated pre drug days and was surrounded by love support and people that wanted to help him.
That did NOTHING to help him,  other than let his addiction grow out of control.  When they are ready to be clean absolutely give your all, but until they are,  its only a recipe for disaster.
I wish there were real answers,  I'm not sure there ever will be.  
I do believe immaturity plays a role in our younger addicts ..many want to out grow the "party days" once the realize they are destroying their lives.
Right now,  all you can do. ..it's do for you.
Hope your son realizes soon he WANTS help,  when he does give him your all.  Until that time you give your all to you  you'll need to be emotionally and physically healthy to help him when he's ready.
We're here for you,  keep talking to us,  it helps
deb
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Thinking about you both
Hope your doing ok
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Deb,
I am doing OK. I have my good moments and my deeply sad moments. I was thinking about a quote the other day that I have remembered for years as it certainly applies to me: A mother is only as happy as her least happy child.
I guess that sums it up. :(

I have two beautiful daughters whose lives are blessed. His was too until he took the wrong turns.

I am staying busy and have not heard from my son. My youngest daughter is moving from Phoenix to LA this weekend so I will be occupied helping her. It does help to stay busy.

I know life goes on. The hardest part for me are the questions in my mind that none of us will ever be able to answer:
Why did a kid from such a loving home get so lost?
Why doesn't he just say "enough" and get on with it?
How can he waste himself this way?

No answers. Maybe someday he will be in the recovery place your dear son is in today and he can help me understand. Until then, no answers.

I am not trying to communicate with him. It makes it easier most of the time but there are times I just want to tell him I love him. He knows that already so I force myself to not text him. But mothers never want to give up, do they?

I think of you several times a day as I refrain from trying to contact him or when I get sad. It helps so much.

Thank you.
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Thank you for the update,  not a day goes by that I dont think of you.
Honey. ...mom's NEVER give up,  don't feel that you are.  
He needs to find his way home to you, your giving him that chance.
The pain stays,  we just learn how to deal with it.
I too can still go to very deep places if I allow it,  all the painful years of my son trying to find his way,  even though he is in a better stop today,  doesn't mean he will stay there.
Keep working on you. ...we have others in life that need us too
Sending love and hugs,  please stay close
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Doing good by the grace of God. To many things had happen. I will update in the morning. Thank you Deb
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This is the place I come when  I am feeling down. I haven't been here in a while. Today is not a good day. My son has been doing very good, some drinking but other than that it has been fine. His grandfather past away and he help his grandma to take care of him.  I am not sure if he took some of the pills. He looked ok to me  but not a 100% sure. It has been about 2 weeks that his grandfather past away and everything looked good. Today he didn't wanted me to pick him up from work and decided to take the trolley. Umm, and that's when it all started. His dad pick him up and he seems to be ok. But the rush of helping around and doing things fast rise a question. I found some calls to his old contact trough facebook and it seems that they miss each other. I just pray to God that he goes trough this and that every day is a better day. If he decides to use. He is going to loose everything he has going on here at the house.  prison will be waiting for him. Maybe that  will be his bottom. I just can't live  this way, when I don't have the inner peace that I need so much.
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Im sorry I only now saw this...
Im glad you come here when you need us...that's why were here.
Stress is the main set back for most of our kids, the reason meetings, self help etc., is so important... even with that in place it takes time to relearn life without drugs.  While they may be able to stay away from the drug, the addicted mind remains.  One stressful life event can flip their world upside down.  I hope that isn't the case, and if it is hopefully he had enough clean time to want to continue, back on that path.  
Many times Many bumps in the road, as long as they don't allow themselves to fall back into full addiction...there is a lot of hope.
Finding the calls even though missed on FB, means the thoughts are in his mind.
Hes done a great job, and has many clean days under his belt.
I would confront him.
Tell him how proud you have been of him for pulling his life together. Then tell him what you suspect, tell him you know about the attempted calls, and reinforce what you expect if he is to continue to live under your roof.  Follow your gut, not your heart right now, if you can do that, youll get your answers, youll know just how honest he is being.  
Keep in touch...Good Luck
Here for you !!
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Praying my boy is not really trying to live outdoors or in unheated homes in order to use, steal and roll the dice. Jail is waiting for him, but never sure if it is for 2 weeks or 2 months........ he is hoping for all his back time 1.5 years, but I'd be shocked it that happens. This tough love thing has yet to seem to work, the stress it brings on my relationship with my family and fiance' is just unbearable....I wish I could trade places with him......that may seem hard to believe, but if you do not have a child (not a brother or sister or cousin) fighting heroin, you just do not know the pain inside the heart, mind nd soul....it's really at a higher / deeper level
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Im sad to read your post, think of you often.
so very sorry.
Tough love, cuts off our enabling, making their addiction their own, but its still in their hands as to when and if, they want to make the change. There is no time limit as to when it will or will not happen.  
The idea behind tough love, is making them know your not supporting their addiction.  Letting them make their own choices as to were they will let their lives go, many / most need to fall hard.  They need to find themselves in very bad spots, to let it go.
I understand the stress and pain and your right unless you live it, with a child it just cant be understood how deep it goes.  Wanting to trade places is not hard to believe, I thought that way many times too.
Have you found support groups ?
We cant change them, we can only change ourselves.
This may seems heartless, but it was the only way I could move on with life.  I had to take the out of sight out of mind approach.  What I couldn't see couldn't hurt me, my mind would always assume, I had to learn to push those thoughts away.  I put my total focus in my youngest daughter and grandkids, over time I was able to "fool" myself into thinking life was ok.  My son made many attempts, before the final time.  It isn't something that will happen over night, its a long road.  Come together with your family and fiancé, work together as a team, on who is in your life.
Your not giving up on him...ok, You just need to bring your life to an expectable less painful place.
Here if youd like to talk
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I tried to get away from it by not talking about it again. If I talk too much about it I get told I'm over doing it, I just keep praying for a peaceful death for my son, I often get soo angry yet feel soo bad for him I wish I could end it for him..how dare him do this to his healthy body while others live with handicap. I feel those around me will not be happy until he is dead...is that why I pray for it? I don't really want my boy to die this way. How is one supposed to support me as I go through this struggle? Am I wrong to expect the support or do I Chase the person away thinking they don't need my baggage......this could be years.
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Stay with us ok.  
You NEED to talk, that's the problem we parents run into, not only are we emotionally beat, we start to second guess our feelings...NO ONE feels our pain, like we do, you are not overdoing it.  
Its Real and its Deep.
Support, for YOU... that's very hard to find, in every day life, even from the ones closest to you. Siblings feel it different than you...its the maternal / Paternal bond that makes it different. Its a pain that will never be felt, unless you walk in the shoes with your own child.
Your fiancé even though she is supportive of you and probably sees the situation for what it is, im not sure its possible she will ever feel the deep gut pain you do.
We need to almost separate ourselves as to who holds what job in our life.  Your fiancé keep her close in a fiancé way, don't let the emotions from your son come between the 2 of you.  That is how many families / relationships are destroyed.  Separate, come to us with the pain that we know. As much as she tires she probably doesn't know how, and yes it can and will many times put a wall between you.
Praying for your sons death...that breaks my heart, but I know what you feel.  I also did the same, just so he could find peace.  Please don't give up...it isn't over.  The people that I know that have children in recovery, felt the exact same way as you and I did.  
Only a miracle could save them...I for one believe in miracles, Ive seen a few in my life.
It gets darkest...before the light.
Were here for you...use us
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the hardest part is that she has very strong opinions about this and even though she has helped me with practicing the tough love and put an end to enabling, I get angry when she voices her opinion. I have a co worker that told me that if his father did the tough love thing he would not have been able to beat it - problem is the guy is in his 50's and still uses, he is just able to function. Our children can never be replaced, I would feel the same way about her children as I do my own if the situation was ever reversed and I pray every night that it never is...they are both great kids. But back to my boy......he just don't understand how I lost trust in him. He still believes as a father I need to trust him even though he has admitted stealing from me.

As for you Deb179, I hope you are having relaxing times as of late, I hate to go on about me....You have such strength to keep soo active here!!! Thank you along with all others....I try to read and respond to others.
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You keep writing ...ok, don't ever feel you shouldn't.    
I had / still have one very special person in my life,  that has talked me through 1000s of hours of pain, not only over my son,  I couldn't, still can't do it without him. The most unselfish person I have ever met.
Our total trust goes to very few in life, when that trust is broken, ( as with your trust in your son )  I think it trickles down to everyone in life, you start to question everything and every body.
When I went through it,  those closest to me,  never felt what I felt.  They told me their thoughts and what they would do, but would they if it was their
child ??  Before long or minds are a rattled mess, or hearts emotionally shattered.
They are not in our shoes they can turn walk away. ..let it go, something we can't.

this is in no means,  saying this is what's going on in your life,  but its what I felt with mine....
Many made me feel he was nothing more than a junkie. ..a throw away.
Made me even more protective of him, (which in turn only hurt him more )  
I started to push people out of my life.
Those closest to you can give all the advice in the world. ..what woke me up was a total stranger.
Someone that had nothing to lose or gain from my situation, someone that told me the truth.   It was very hard to except in the beginning,  but once I could wrap my head around it,  I gained strength.
We need to relearn life...trust too.

As for other addicts/ recovering addicts that say they couldn't have done it without the support from the people that love them.  I totally agree,  with those words.  
When my son was ready. ...I  poured my life, my love into him.  I thought he was gone.
As a recovering addict,  he needs and deserves every bit of my support  but until his head was in the right place,  my life and love only hurt him, by allowing his comfort with his needle.
he still to this day tells me, he couldn't have done it with out me, but he needed to find him first.
right now you can't change your son's behavior, only he can. .., tough love is not only letting him be responsible for his actions, hopefully to help push him in the right direction,  but it's also giving you that chance to back away from the everyday torture.  
The pain always remains,  but if you can let your mind move in other directions, not let it consume your thoughts,  it will get easier.
it takes time. ..a lot of time,  but it can be done.
Please don't EVER feel bad for talking. ..you need it the most right now.


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Dad,
My heart aches with every word I read in your post. As a mother in a similar situation, I relate to your  pain. I forced my adult son out of my house just before Christmas and he is still couch surfing and living with his addiction.
Deb's words could be mine. She has given me the counsel that has saved me from begging him to come back home because of the agony of wondering where he will end up next in this broken journey of his life. I wouldn't have been able to get through the first 30 days without her loving words of support.
We all understand your thoughts when you are desperately sad for your son to think maybe he could find peace if he were to die....I totally understand that your grief takes you to that place. Let me say that you must have a tremendous capacity for love to feel the agony of your son's addiction the way you do. I have thought, as my husband and I go through this with our son, that mothers must feel the pain so much more intensely because we gave birth to these precious children. Your pain and the ability to voice that pain, give me pause and cause me to know that you must love your son every ounce as much as I love mine.
In my prior posts, I have bared my soul about how I tried everything to pull my son out of his tailspin of addiction. I won't even talk about how much money I have spent supporting him over the past 5 years...and this is a young man with a college degree and all the love he ever would have needed. I kept giving and giving until, as Deb says, I finally was done.
They are adults and they have a life to live. I was trying to drag my son to the life I wanted for him. I was willing to pay any price, I just wanted him to break away from the misery of his addiction. Not a single thing changed the dynamic.
My son has been out of our home for 2 months now. The first few weeks were agonizing. I would wander around the house lost. I would go sit in his room and cry. I would fall into deep moments of terror worrying about him and what horrors awaited him.
I think now I have gotten through that place where every day I kept waiting for the phone to ring with bad news. As we finally have to learn that if they are actively using they can not be under our roof because the enabling is just prolonging the outcome. Deb 179 talks about the numbness that finally gives s the strength to tell them to leave after we have watched and endured their pain and our pain for too long.
Now I am at a second numbness place where my son has been gone for 2 months and I can pretty much get through the day without falling to my knees in sorrow for his situation. I still have my moments but I know that he has to find his way. I can't do it for him because if I could have, he would have moved on with his life by now.
Your pain breaks my heart. I know exactly how you feel. I have forced myself to stay busy and to occupy my mind so that I don't obsess over my sadness. Please try to take care of your heart and find things to do to take your mind off your son's pain. It won't mean that you love him less not to think about him as often. It will help you stay strong so you will be strong enough to support him when he comes back home ready to live the life you want for him. Our obsessing just keeps us "stuck" in sadness while our adult children continue in their addicted orbit. None of our worry creates anything healthy. It just makes us sad and depressed and takes away days of our lives that we should be living fully.
If you are "stuck" in your sadness and you can't find your way out of the cyclone just yet, that is OK too. You will get there soon. Until then, keep telling us how you are feeling. It is never too much. We have all left millions of tears and words of pain on these pages. We will be here for you as we walk the same path.
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I wanted to tell you one other thing that has helped me get stronger with my codependence tendencies toward my son. I read many posts from recovered addicts who spoke about the enabling of their parents and the fact that it took years longer in some cases to finally choose sobriety because their parents had enabled them to continue in a comfortable environment with food, shelter, love and whatever else they needed. Reading posts from recovering addicts really helped me see through an addict's eyes how we make the road "easy" and keep them on the exact path that we so desperately want to shake them away from. It goes against the laws of nature to turn our backs on our beloved child but in this case, we have to back away. They aren't listening.  
But if you are struggling with enabling and breaking away, trust me, I was one of the worst enablers of all time. It took me way too long but I can't beat myself up about it. It is what it is and it took as long as it took. I had to be ready to fully let go.
People who love us give us advice because they see how we are hurting and they want to help us "deal with" the pain. I agree with you completely when you say you have to be a parent to really know this agony...and no one really is able to tell our heart what to do or how to feel unless they have lived it. Period.  
No one who hasn't lived it has the right to tell me what I need to do next. They mean well and they want my pain to subside (so they give advice) but it won't until by beloved son finds his way back to a safe and sober life.
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I will definitely look into some posts from people that have walked the walk. My son has been in trouble and using some form of drug for at least 4 years and has spent 17 months in prison about a month after his 18th birthday. I did the enabling thing for a while, but I have not for at least a 7 months. I have and am able to block things out and live on with out my son as I am very busy. I coach high school football and run the strength and conditioning program as well. My son was very athletic and I just can't understand why he would throw away his potential for drugs. As I coach my players I often worry where they will end up as some have very little if any family. So I guess I am at the point where I am relapsing myself as far as feeling bad for my boy. The embarrassment is growing and the fear of going into a drug house to carry his dead body out is increasing in odds (a friend of mine had to go pick up his daughter like that)

As for my Fiance' my son stole from her daughter and she is getting angry with me now because I am not able to control him while he is using. He keeps going to our old house that is empty. I have told the police but they do not seem to care, so what am I supposed to do? I told him to stay out of there, but unless I go sleep there and catch him going in and I follow to beat him enough to get him to the station, I cannot stop him from going in. His mom doesn't do much of anything.

I do not want to lose my current relationship, but I am afraid that if my son does make it through this, I am going to be expected to turn my back on my son. I can not do that if he does the right things. I understand that she may not be able to forgive him, but she can't understand that the things he is currently doing are not really him - people can't just stop him. Yes he is responsible and will be forced to pay the consequences, but its kind of out of my hands right now.
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Dad you have a lot to keep you busy,  definitely use that to your advantage.

Our kids don't realize or do they think what they could be throwing away, when they first start to experiment.  I'm sure most believe they are stronger than the drug.  It owns them quickly.
My son was an amazing wrestler. ..I watched him go from fit, healthy strong to scrawny & sickly seemingly over night. There is no discrimination with heroin.
I guarantee there are many IN your life right now that are touched by some form of addiction, possibly some that are afraid to speak out.
I was never quiet about my son's addiction, I was open...I worked in a school district  I had several come to me, once they knew he was an addict...parents and kids. It's an epidemic...it's every where.
There isn't much you can do about him going to your old house,  he's finding shelter. ..he knows your not ok with it,  you haven't given him permission.
I'm sure it's still less than an ideal life for him.
As for taking him out of a drug house,  I was 100% sure that's were I'd get my son's body too. Every time my phone rang, I'd get that sick feeling. It's Russian  roulette where ever they play the game.
I finally came to the realization,  I would not be the one to find him dead in my home.  Not sure how it would be possible to move on looking at "that spot".
As hard as it is to grasp right now. ..he has a  higher chance of winning, when he has to struggle to survive.  
When he's ready to surrender He knows he has you waiting to give your all,  if he's will to do the same. We almost have to reverse our thinking.
I'm sad to hear your fiance is holding you responsible. There is no controlling an addict,  if there was you would have had that control by now.  I hope she would never expect you to put him out of your life when he is clean.  He does what he does now because of his addiction.  Your a package deal,  as is she, from what I get from your words,  if the situation were reversed you wouldn't expect that from her.  I hope she shows you the same respect.
He's your son,  you will love him for life,  regardless where he takes it
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He finally got arrested today, it should have happened weeks ago, but I am thankful it happened!!! Now I get to worry if he is making stronger connections for the outside life, if they will release him in two weeks or if the best wish can come true......he stays clean!!!!!
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It's amazing how we can get excited about an arrest huh ?
Rest your mind for now dad.
Keep us updated ok
Take care of you !!!!!!!!
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yeah I will try to take care of me, problem with taking care of me is usually when I am helping others (coaching, helping others etc) and I too easily neglect my loved ones. The ones that don't need attention, but appreciate it and deserve it. I always take for granted that my un-needy loved ones will always be waiting.

Anyway I know this is just beginning and I can only hope that he is ready an the system is somewhat in tact for him. I will probably not even try to contact him for a few weeks. I hate to deal with his mom so hopefully I can avoid that.

Thanks again, I will be here still and if I can help anyone on here I do try. I do have some knowledge, but when its your own kid it seems so hard to follow your own advice.
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Your life will change in many ways from this experience, not all of it is going to be painful.
I'm a very different person than I was a few years ago.
On going Grief,  brings out an understanding,  compassion,  and yes the realization of never taking any one or anything for granted.  

I truly hope this will give him the opportunity to get the help he needs and deserves.  
Also rest and peace for you and the rest of your family to reconnect.
Jail isn't the place we want our kids. ..but right now it appears to be the saver place for him
you will help many,  you have the experience.  
When it comes to following our own advice it becomes a matter of the heart, some times we need others to help lead the way.
Good luck. ..you will all be in my thoughts
Deb
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News flash!!!!! Now a girl is claiming to be carrying Kevin's baby. If and when I talk to him I hope he will just block it until there is a DNA test. It does not end. She was a house leader at a Recovery house near my sons...... These houses are very dangerous!!!
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Oh boy, hang in there ok.
One more worry to add to your ever growing list,  is not what you need right now.
Focus on you dad...get some much needed rest.
Day by day ..ok.
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Need your opinion on a conflict! Now that my boy is in prison, do I go to visit him or not? If so when? Is this a form of enabling? Not sure how long he will be in there and I do not have much in the way of resources to put on his account.
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It is just soo hard because some people have this idea that you have to cut off all and any level of communication for years until he proves that he will never make these choices again, and even then they feel it may not be worth it. I lost my mom at age 21 months after having my second child. She didn't use drugs and still passed at age 46, so I know how limited my son's time may be with us, yet the thought of visiting him is causing major conflict with my loved one.
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If only life would give you a break..I'm so sorry, you seem to be getting it from all directions.
Enabling him on the outside,  is doing for,  or giving him anything however  minor, that would help make his life easier, allowing him to use and not take responsibility for his actions.
He's in prison now,  in my opinion visiting him is not enabling him.
I'm sure his life is not easy right now. He's been taken away from the drugs.
Hes feeling many emotions  and could use the love and support of his dad.
Take it slow,  give him time to adjust, time to think,  don't go overboard. ..just enough so he knows your there.  
When you visit,  your goal is..you WILL be there for him, if he's ready to change his life, when released.  
If not you need to back away,  not only for him but for you too.  It's such an emotional tug of war,  you can lose your mind.  
You'll get a feeling of where your son is going with this when you see him. If he has the attitude, he doesn't deserve to be where he is, that everyone is wrong but him, he's still in denial. If he shows some kind of remorse, that's positive.  
You love him dad...he's your son,  but can't except the life he leads...stand strong with that.
I went through so many jail sentences with my son,  I can't even count them.  over the years i backed away,  less visits, less phone calls,  less money in his account. Each time he was jailed I was there for his support, he would be released clean and I made it be known to him if he continued to stay that way on the outside ( with support ) I was there for him. If he went back to his " old " ways I was stepping aside, which I did the 2 final times.
His last jail sentence was the change,  we were both completely drained.  
That time I did not visit once, I did not except one phone call, I did not put any money in his account. I  completely let go, for my reasons....I couldn't do it any more.  
I'm not sure of the "real" reason he surrendered,  I'm not sure he is either, words from him that will forever linger in my mind are " I didn't want to die alone ", I guess that says it all.
While he was in jail, the last time he drew a very detailed picture of a rose. You could tell it took many days to do it.
It reads " To a Very Special Person, My Mom...I Love You ".  I got the picture in the mail, while I still couldn't bring myself to visit him, I went and bought a special frame. I hung that rose on the wall above where he last sat, the night he tried to kill himself.
It was almost a year before he saw where I had put that rose.
EVERYTHING we had been through over the years,  that simple rose has a meaning of its own, to both of us.
Not a day goes by that I dont look at it, each time he walks in my house his eyes are drawn to it.
It was a heart wrenching ride he and I were on,  we did it together right to the end.   Many times separated for our own good...but he was / is and always will be...MY son.
No one can expect your love for your son to change.
You two are going through a very emotional, deeply bonding experience. I know it doesnt feel that way right now, but in the end, you'll know just what im saying.
Right now he's safe, go visit your son, your learning where to draw the line for his safety and yours.
Good luck, I truly hope you can find peace in your heart very soon.
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Thank you soo much!!! That helped untie many knots in my brain. Its amazing how handicapped this situation makes our vision and decision making process. It's as if it drains all of our intelligence, I can give advice to others, yet my mind freezes when I need it to kick in most.!!! Thank's again and thank you for sharing that story of the rose drawing. It's ironic but as bad as thigs are deep own I know they could worse - somehow!
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Your so emotionally attached, makes it near impossible to see understand or know what direction to head in.
Reaching out, asking for help. ..is our biggest asset :)
The day may come, that I may need your guidance.
We can see it clearly when it isn't our child, but want to guide...like it is.
Your gaining strength and experience that your not aware of yet.
Each day your progressing, your going to be fine dad and so is your son. ...he has you !!
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My youngest daughter, 26, is a heroin addict. She is also addicted not just to the drug, but to the needle. I've been telling her that for a couple of years, but she is just now kind of getting that. Addicts do get addicted to the equipment, paraphernalia and such, but the needle is particularly addicting. I don't want to get into all of that now, but just want to say that I have been the typical enabling parent. Vacillating  between tough love and giving her money. Her dad and I finally joined forces this past month. She had been able to get lump sums of money from him, but no more. We cannot give her any cash, and she is not allowed unsupervised in my house. She is taking suboxone, which does seem to help, but I hold onto it and she takes it in front of me. She is an expert at lying and stealing and conning and has successfully finagled things in the past. I do not trust her at all. She would steal my last dollar, leave me without money for food. She has done it before. It has made a huge difference having her dad on my side working with me to save her. We are very early in this team process, but I do have hope.
A lot of people don't like suboxone, but I have seen it work wonders for my other, older daughter, who uses nothing now. And I've seen it work for my 26 year old, but it has to be monitored and make sure she takes enough often enough that it doesn't wear off and allow her to use heroin. I have also seen people abuse suboxone, but in our case, it's been a useful tool.
We shall see. It requires extreme diligence, and is a rollercoaster, but I will not give up.
I wish everyone here success with your children. Never let your guard down and don't ever take the path of least resistance just because it is so exhausting. It is easy to do in a moment of feeling drained. And believe me, an addict can tell when you're tired and they will strike as soon as they sense it. Always be suspicious, even after they've been doing great for a while. The reach of opiates arm is very very long.
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Hi mimi !!!!
Your post hit a note with me...also addicted to the needle, how true that is.
Sounds like positive direction going on in your / your daughters life.  It makes a  WORLD of difference when all family members work together !!
I'm sorry this is your second run with this. ..it's life draining.
My 3 kids each were touched by drugs at different levels. My 2 oldest found their way on their own....my youngest son, I can only describe as being touched by some un-human force as there was no way he should have survived. He is 2 1/2 years clean and the one that took me on the of my life.
Suboxone has its place,  I believe the best fit...is heroin addiction.
When were told to stay away from it...it's trading one addiction for another,  in many situations it proves to be a worse choice as I know how hard they are to wean from.
BUT...using that drug to replace heroin, is saving MANY lives as long as it's used they way its intended.
What your doing is tough...controlling every situation, it Can drain the life out of you
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Silly thing posted before I was ready :)
Anyways. ..glad you found your way here. Having others that know your life,  is great support.
Use us and GOOD LUCK to you all.
As you know this is NOT hopeless,  you've seen recovery once with your other daughter...you can see it again !!
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Deb,

Ha...I knew I'd hear about replacing one drug for another, but it's okay. I get that and know that suboxone can be abused just as badly as any drug. Oh, I did read your entire reply and know you weren't knocking me or the use of suboxone in general. It's been a blessing for my oldest. After that first 7-10 days with the youngest, she got more stable and even. I am seeing more and more of her sweet funny normal personality as opposed to the monster that heroin turns her into.

I hate heroin.

Thanks for writing and noticing me.

mimi
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I'm not at all knocking suboxone...it saved my son's life !!!
I heard it too, one drug replacing another. ..blah blah blah.
That was all we had left to try and i was willing to try anything.
In my opinion I would rather have my son on subs for life than shooting heroin.
I for one believe your doing the right thing
Good luck to you
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absolutely! rebecca (daughter) still has some issues with control being taken away from her, but we are still in infancy in our situation. believe it or not, and I know you can, she was off heroin for a year just doing suboxone once before. Then she ran into her old best friend from grade school who happened to be living with a drug dealer and had advanced to shooting up heroin as well. so sad. This girl had been in college, majoring in physical therapy and had a little boy about 3-4 years old. so they got back in touch with each other. Needless to say, rebecca got back in touch with heroin too. so when I say the arm of addiction has a long reach, I mean it can transcend a lot of time and situations. this is why addicts have to leave everything, and I mean everything about their old life behind them and carve out something new and foreign to them. Yet another battle they have to fight. I do know there are people who have accomplished this on their own, but that is the exception, not the rule.
I, for one, have been unable to embrace the 12 step programs. I have issues with some of the early steps. I do not understand them, nor do I personally believe that one of those programs is the be-all/end-all for addictions of any kind. I know they work quite well for some people, and kudos to them. whatever works for an individual is the only way to go.
I am so happy for you and your son. Suboxone certainly can and does work, but like those programs, it isn't for everybody. There will never be just one way, one answer that fits everyone. Like you, I would much rather anyone on subs than shooting heroin. or anything.
Apologies for the haphazard capitalization problem in my sentences. My shift button doesn't always produce the capital letter!
I so hope everyone fighting this fight finds a way to win. all we can do is share our individual experiences and make suggestions.
I hope all of our stories help somebody somewhere.

I hate heroin.

Mimi
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Hello I read your story, Im so sorry. I too know what your going thru, but Ive been going thru it for 7 years now. My daughter started using Heroin at 18 she is now 24,It has been a constant  roller coaster, she has been in  or should I say we have done 13 rehabs God knows you go thru it right them. she completed one. she has been in and out of jail. she Is now on the streets for awhile I let her shower and eat because my heart could not take my child being out there,cold and hungry she played that card for a long time. just in the last month My other children yes two Boys 18 and 22 sat down with me and said we cant let her do this to you anymore. or us.. So we stop letting her in the house. she stills shows up out front almost everyday. I beg and plead if she would get help go into a rehab she would have her family back I would help her in every way but she wont do it... she showed up yesterday, she looks BAD. I think shes going to die I try to tell myself im doing the right thing..My heart feels for you because you've just begun the battle and it is just that a battle with the devil..I just pray that you and your daughter win. I think my childs rock bottom is death.  My thoughts and prayers are with all of us that are going thru this Hell. God Bless.  
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Hey,
wow you have really been through it. I am so sorry that you have to go through this.
I've been through plenty with my daughter, Rebecca. What I haven't mentioned is that I lost my son at age 29, not to heroin, but he had high blood pressure, was a high functioning alcoholic, and had a girlfriend who convinced him to do coke one night just 3 1/2 months after he'd had a heart attack. After this girl and he came home, I didn't wake up and I always wake up. But I didn't hear anything. I slept through it all. The next day, I found him in bed. On his stomach. Dead. He'd been dead about 2 hours. That day changed me forever. Worst day of my life. That was my little boy who loved He-Man and GI Joes and wrestlers. That was my grown son who loved the New England Patriots and college basketball and the NBA. That was my son who worked 5-6 days a week and was promoted to foreman. Gone. Over some dumb sh*t.
Not only that, my oldest daughter got addicted to pain medicine when she was in the hospital, pregnant with a bad gallbladder. They gave her so much morphine and stadol I was shocked. Yes, the baby was born addicted. But she's all good now.l  My daughter got to taking up to 25, yes 25, oxycodone 30mg pills a day. She got on suboxone and she's doing great now. Thank the good Lord.
My son is dead. My one girl is good. Now...I just gotta get through Rebecca's problem. She's doing ok now, but I never let my suspicion or my guard down completely.
Your girl has been to 13 rehabs? wow. I wish I had an answer for you, but I will mention Casey's Law. Google it. Parents can use it on their adult children. They will get court ordered rehab without having to have committed a crime basically.
My thoughts and prayers out to you.

I hate heroin.

Mimi

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For the love. .first of all,  I'm sorry for the pain you face.  Your boys are right, sometimes we have to put ourselves first just to survive.
Please don't give up hope.
Many of our kids go to the darkest places, just before the flip, including my son.
We were in all the places you describe,  right down to me praying it would end in what ever way. ..just so we could both find peace. I too thought his rock bottom would be death.
The final time I saw my son high. ..I found him blue from pills with a slit wrist.
He was and iv heroin addict.
He survived, but something in me died that night.
I let him go for the final time,  I decided I wasn't going to be the one to find him dead.
he was left totally alone with his addiction,  I was the last one to let go.
Something clicked in him that night too like the flip of a switch.
He did it with suboxone and fully committed for the first time in his nearly 8 year addiction.  He's near 2 1/2 years clean now,  something I never expected to see.
Anyways...I wanted to let you know desperate dad hasn't been around in awhile. But the last time I talked with him, his daughter was doing very well with the once a month vivitrol shot.
Heroin addiction is nearly impossible to walk away from. ..most need LONG term rehab,  or some type of maintenance to give their mind a chance to feel normal,  giving them a chance to heal, and relearn life.
Honey. ..your at the lowest low and a very painful spot with your daughters addiction. I know how hard it is to turn your back but sometimes that's the only thing you have left to do.  I would offer her help another time...the shot is something that can't be abused or sold.  Let her know you'll be there only to help her recover.
We enable them in so many unknown ways. ..we need to let them make their addiction their own.  Many times when that happens, when they find themselves alone. ... they figure out its not the life they want
Saying a prayer for you and your daughter, never say never. ..ok

Mimi...I'm so sorry,  a mother's nightmare.
Hugs to you both
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can you tell me more about vivitrol? rebecca is on suboxone, which has worked before, but I have doubts about her right now. Nothing I can prove definitively, but if there is an injection she can get, that would be fab. PLEASE tell me more about this. does it work? Any info will be appreciated.

I hate heroin.

Mimi
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I haven't had actual experience with it, subs were the main course of action when we went through it, but everyone I've talked to about it has had success. But of course it still needs to be up to the addict being committed  to sobriety.
Sounds like your daughter would be a good fit, also making life easier for you.
Go to www.vivitrol.com will allow you to do a search for a doctor to offer this treatment to you in your area.
It works like suboxone...blocks craving let's them feel normal. I still absolutely recommend meetings, out patient rehabs, individual counseling as they need to learn how to let go of the addicted mind. What works for one will not work for all.  Once she is heading in the right direction, if she tells you rehab or meetings only cause her to think drugs...Hear her.  My son could not do it that way, he said all rehab and meetings did for him was make him want to head right out to his next high.  It didn't help that he attended those meetings with his using buddies, also in the same spot as he.
He did individual counseling one on one focused on him. We took the mental health route the final time instead of focusing on addiction programs that never worked for him.
So now that I got off subject, back to the shot :)
Its a once  a month shot, time released over the month.  No worry about using subs or misusing...or selling.  It's a one year treatment.
I would definitely check out their Web site,  also a number you can call with any and all questions.  Many say it's a money thing,  like replacing one drug with another. ..but...when in our shoes it ALL needs to be given a chance.
Keep me updated ok !!
Good luck...I believe your on the right track ;)
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Hey, Deb, I just wanted to comment on the meeting situation with your son. I totally understand that. I am not of the mindset that NA, AA, and all the other 12-step programs with meetings are for everybody. It's actually difficult in my area to find people who agree with me so I wanted to speak up. These meetings, to me, are not productive. My experience has been there is a lot of war stories that are told, and I personally have a problem with the steps themselves. I get the whole "it;s a disease" idea, but I don't necessarily agree with this mentality. I think it is true to some extent, but I do think this idea is used by people as an excuse. I've encountered people who say I can't help it, it's a disease, and completely absolve themselves of all accountability. I don't know.....I'm glad it works for some people, but it was never for me or any of my kids. I am curious as to if you or your son have had any negativity from expressing this to others. I have found, especially among the non-experienced, that people think if you aren't involved in meetings and a 12-step program, then you will be unsuccessful. Thanks for the info.

Mimi
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You know right from the beginning I myself knew the meetings were more destructive to my son,  I went to several with him. All his using buddies were there,  most not because they wanted to be, I swear they made arrangements ( the friends ) where to meet after to get high.  That was his only contact with them but it was enough.  I believe if they're committed and not with peers it might have helped,  as that was what I was told. ..but the first time he told me all the meetings did for him was make him want to use,  he confirmed my gut feeling.
He still goes to self help meetings when he feels he needs it. Different enviorment, people that are committed not forced to be there all in different stages of recovery....it definitely  builds his " I can do it " attitude. I also have to say if he started with self-help I'm not sure that would have been the answer.   It seemed to be the right order of the right help to get him there.
Started with psychiatrist, the right meds and one on one counseling then on to self help.  
As for it being a disease, I'm also not entirely sure,  but I do believe many factors play a part.  I believe every one of us are addicted to something in life, good or bad. Some find themselves drawn to drugs just to take the edge off. I will never believe an addict sets out to become an addict.   We all want to feel in control of our lives, I believe they go the drug route fully believing they have control,  until it's too late.
coping skills ...some of us it comes naturally others need to learn how.
My son never felt normal in life ( undiagnosed  adhd, with hyper activity leading to extreme anxiety )  his mind raced.  Drugs slowed it. He had no intention of becoming an addict...he just wanted to function.
What else I seem to find in most they have hearts of gold, they know how to give but don't know how to receive. So is it a disease. ..I'm not sure ?
I have learned each addict has to do it their way when it comes to recovery, but the story is the same getting them there.
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I am a mother of two girls Ashley Joy a 27 year old heroin addict and Emily Simone a 19 year old, I just did the Marchman Act on het in Florida where the police pick her up and bring her into a rehab for evaluation for 72 hours. She needs to stay clean and stop prostituting to get her heroin. She has scammed me enough. I feel there they can evaluate her and see if she is bipolar. I also am evicting her because she is still not going to pay rent. I want to cry because there is so much pain involved. I could not warn her because she would run. We never had the bonding when she was born. She had jaundice and the nurses thought she had spinabifida, Thus she was taken from me. We have a hard relationship. I want to be honest and follow the law and she is used to running for heroin and crack. She is killing herself slowly. I am afraid.
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Hi susan.
First of all no guilt ok.  You had nothing to do with her choice.
We give our all trying to "fix" them,  it only destroys us. ..they need to want it, before any change can happen.
In my opinion  the mental health route,  is the way to go. The underlying cause needs to be found.  
My son is a recovering IV heroin addict. ..2 1/2 years clean,  I still to this day can't believe I can write that.   I thought there was no hope, many rehabs, many jail sentences,  many meetings...nothing worked until he had a mental health evaluation, and treated for chemical imbalance.  
It didn't come easy,  actually far from it.  
I needed to let him go after years of giving my all ( I was the last ).  When his addiction became his own. ..no one left in his life, he figured out ...on his own. .it wasn't the life he wanted.
Today he still works on his recovery...it will be life long.

Your doing all the right things mom as painful as it is...your giving your daughter a chance.
We enable them in ways we never think of as enabling.  
Most times the way we love for our addicts hurt them more.
Be strong sweetie...
Please up date us...your not alone,  we're here for you
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Hi my name is Dolly. My 24 year old daughter will not admit to using Heroin. She was diagnosed with an Inoperable Brain Tumor at 21 and met her current BF at 22. He was a Reformed Addict when she met him.
In the last 12 months she has withdrawn, refuses to go back to her Neurologist, lost 80 lbs. the list goes on & on. I will not allow her to come stay here at my home due to suspicion she and the BF are both using Heroin.
I'm not sure what is appropriate tough love and what is abandonment. This is all new to me. Help!! In the past I exuded tough love with my Sister, who eventually got clean from Crystal Meth. And is 15 years clean. I'm so confused & distraught.
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Hi Dolly
So sorry your in this spot,  stay with us...we know how overwhelming,  confusing and heartbreaking it can be, you don't have to do this alone.
If you suspect heroin, please educate yourself the best you can on heroin addiction.   It's a very hard long road, but doable.  Don't ever feel there is no hope, because there is.
my son was a severe iv heroin user...he's now 2 1/2 years into his recovery.
I was very ignore to addiction especially  heroin...what I found very helpful, but extremely painful,  do it at your own pace, was to watch you tube videos of heroin addicts, what I saw, was my son.   My first step was no longer denying.
We need to learn to put us first and how fight for our lives too.  They can make us very sick.

Learn the signs...some being... pinpoint pupils, extremely tired, to extreme agitation... nodding off mid sentence or in the middle of doing something, weight loss,  general unhealthy appearance, slow Interaction.
we as parents tend to enable them in ways we don't believe to be enabling.  We love them,  many times with heroin addiction, loving them the way we do...only hurts them more.
Only she can change her, as sad as that is to say, nothing you do can make that happen.
great words said here " Support their recovery...not their addiction ".  When ever you question what you may or may not be doing for your daughter...ask yourself that question...what am I supporting.
if we keep them in a comfort zone,  shelter,  food, money, etc. They have no reason to change.   I'm sure your familiar with the words Rock Bottom, unfortunately most if not all heroin addicts need to hit that bottom hard to want to change their lives,  as parents we need to help guide them in that direction.
You will NEVER abandon your daughter,  but you may need to learn how to love her from a distance for awhile.  
Making her addiction her own is much easier said than done, but is the beginning of their change.
Find as much support for yourself as you can.  It's VERY important family work together.  My family knew my son was in big trouble...each one of us tried to "fix" him, we unknowingly allowed his addiction to intensify. Eventually we pulled together. ..we no longer gave him money, a place to live and yes even food.  Very hard to say those words. ..even tougher on the heart...we made his addiction his responsibility.
I guess what I would do if in your shoes,  I'd start by telling her your suspicions, be ready for nasty words between you and denial on her part( they don't want to be found out ).  Offer rehab, which BTW will need to be long term.   There are maintenance drugs to help them get and stay clean, even though it is replacing one drug with another... I know our ideal world is a sober child,  in the case of heroin most need extra help to kick it, along with what works for them. ..if it's meetings ,out patient rehab, counseling, self help.  They need to learn how to live the non addicted life.
My son tried many rehabs, had many jail sentences, what worked for him was the mental health approach.
he did have a suicide attempt that put him in the mental hospital. ..I refused to take responsibility for him on his release.  72 hours fixes nothing...I was afraid.   Because of my refusal he was put with a psychiatrist...one on one counseling, started on suboxone...he was held accountable for all his actions.  
Allowing your daughter to move in with you unless she is fully committed to recovery ( they will tell you any thing to make you believe ) will only bring greater pain.
There is so much to be said. ..please if you have questions...ask us,  we will do our best to guide you.
Your not alone. ..we're here for you.
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