hi guys....i started a new thread....i was having a hard time posting my very long update. the post i am placing on here is older, but i wanted you to know what has happened. one thing i did learn is that my spouse has been doing heroin off and on for 17 years....yes, 17 years.
here is the old post.
hi everybody....i have not been on a while...been really upset lately. i may sign off for a while. thank you so much for all of your support. i want to let you all know...that the truth...the ugly truth all came out.
vicki...remember how you told me to stop checking his email account. well, i didnt listen...i kept checking and discovered an email account that i didnt know about. i hacked into it...and discovered all the correspondence and dirty pictures from the affair that he had a couple of years ago with the yoga woman. it was horrible to see the pictures and the details of the affair all laid out. it was old stuff but it cut like a knife. i also found all the dirty internet porn...awful. i sent my spouse the pictures and all the correspondence. at that point my spouse contacted me and gave me the phone records. he told me that he wanted me to review them and go back as far as i wanted to...that everything was now all out in the open.
so i reviewed them in detail...
now...you know that when i caught my spouse sexting 3 months ago..that is when all of this started...that is when he told me he had the heroin problem. i gave him my 4 boundaries..remember? rehab, stop drinking, counseling...and the infamous full and complete transparency....and that meant access to not only his phone...but phone records. well, he ended up leaving me because he didn't want to give up those records.
all of you told me that whatever was on those records was really bad. you told me it would be women, drug dealers, drug friends...all of it. you told me. but i wanted to know. i mean...what kind of a man leaves his family over phone records. well...you were all right. i discovered that the woman he was sexting was actually a woman he was having an affair with. she is 15 years older than my husband. that is what the secret was. she has a boyfriend as well. to make a long, horrible story shorter...the affair was ended...however...this woman who is also a "therapist" went ballistic. she send me emails and kept calling me telling me all the details of their affair..and that he is a heroin addict and an alcoholic....she said that she was going to contact child protection services to have our child taken away because she was going to tell them that my spouse does coke heroin and is an alcoholic.
i am not kidding. she said that every time she say him he was loaded. but that she was going to report this and they would come and take my baby. it was horrible. i have checked with my lawyer and my son will not be taken from me...i am not a drug addict, never have taken drugs, and my spouse was put out of the house as soon as i learned about his addiction. she was just trying to hurt me.
she also has a boyfriend. she actually told me on the phone that she is a sex addict. yes, she actually told me that. she is crazy....i mean..really..she is. my husband sent her all kinds of horrible emails telling her to leave me alone and he made all kinds of threats. it was a horrible string of emails he sent to her. but finally she stopped contacting me. i clearly know what their relationship was all about...it is really sad...and pathetic. you should have heard her...and the 2 of them fighting...what a nightmare.
my spouse feels relieved that everything is all out in the open...no more lies and hiding. he said he is tired of living the double life...and that was what he was so afraid to tell me 3 months ago. he wants me to forgive him...and move forward with him continuing rehab...and getting his life together...and having a transparent marriage.
i told him to go to hell. i am too upset.
and you know...even though i already knew what was on the records...i mean...come on..you all told me that it was bad....its just that now that i know for a fact that there was way more to the sexting...you know.....that he was still talking to his drug friends....all of it...was shown on the records. i mean...i knew already what it was about. but having it confirmed is something else. the lady at rehab even told me that what would be on the records would be bad.
so, i dont know what i am going to do. i guess i got what i asked for, right? i said i wanted the complete truth...all of it. well...i sure as hell got it. i know all about what has been going on.
so, i appreciate all of your support you guys...i may be off for a while. i need to figure out what i am going to do.
my spouse said to me yesterday...."i have given you everything that you asked for...met all of your boundaries. i am in rehab for myself, i am in counseling, i stopped drinking...and i gave you all of my phone records...and changed my number. i want to reconcile based on truth and honesty now that everything is out on the table. i want to save my marriage. dear god forgive me...i am begging god to forgive me. i have no power of these drugs and alcohol...and i am getting help. i take full responsibility for my actions...but i do need help. these women were my drug and alcohol party friends..they meant nothing to me. i want my wife. i am not going to stop fighting for my wife."
Hi Miller, i believe that getting caught and turning ones life around and fessing up and turning ones life around have very different reasons for wanting to change.
If he was a fesser, i would be more supportive in seeing a good ending to this. But those that change from being caught, well Jackie Gleason said it best "humida humida".
hi vicki...i didnt see the post or the replies...maybe they will see the new post here. thank you anyway though.
i know...you are right...pretty much about everything. everyone here has been really.
yes, he told me about the 17 years the other day. still cant believe it. i mean,i have know him 12 years. he said he had been doing it off and on for that long...sometimes he would go a year or two and not do it. but it was always something he did recreationally....or part of the party lifestyle. i dont think it has always been recreational....17 years....i am sure it has been a problem for that long...he just hid it....and remained functional. but so many things make sense now to me...over the years. the immaturity...he seeming a bit "off" at times...and i always brushed it off as it being part of his unique personality....he always seemed different...like the blacksheep. i never understood his depressions, his mood swings...his irritability...never got it. and then his drinking seemed out of control about 5 years ago when he got that dui.
everyone knew except me. all of our friends knew that he did this.
the group counselor from the rehab place called me today to see if i was coming to the family meeting. not sure. i told her had so many issues...and she told me..."no....he does not have alot of problems. he has one gigantic problem that is the issue."
Vicki posted your thread (how nice of her!) for you in 3 different threads (as I said, MH has been dealing with a glitch involving longer posts, which is why things are broken down to multiple replies). Anyway, the threads are all on page 3 of this forum. Here's a link to your last one...where myself and others replied.
That may help you to see what we've already said in regards to this.
So, where do you stand now? Is he still visiting as much? Are you involved in the rehab process at all (family days?)? I'm sure you're still in therapy...have you been working to try to process and deal with all of your emotions? The anger? Betrayal? Hurt?
You'll see my reply in the link above, and my advice is the same. I think you guys moved things along way too quickly...it muddied the waters for you, and you still had all of those unresolved feelings. So, after you got confirmation of what you probably already knew in your heart with the e-mails...you felt betrayed all over again.
What he said to you seems to be true..he IS meeting all of the obligations you set out for him. To move forward, you're going to have to REALLY deal with your emotions, the co-dependency, denial and enabling, I think you're going to have to get a little more honest with yourself. While I'm sure you didn't have a clue as to the whole picture, you had to have known something wasn't right. I think in a lot of ways, you turned a blind eye, because you felt your marriage was good, and you didn't want to think otherwise. Who could blame you?
HE owns the horrible decisions he has made, without a doubt. That is not your fault..but I DO think you need to be more honest with yourself and start accepting that perhaps you were satisfied with sticking your head in the sand. I think you are feeding into the "victim" role by over and over stressing just how much you didn't know, and for so long. I don't say that to be mean, honey...I'm just being straight with you. I think thaty's holding back your progress. It's a known fact in the psych business that people have a tendency to fuel the "victim" fire (unconsciously most times) to garner more sympathy and support. That's normal...but it's also counterproductive..and I think it would help you to be more aware if you're doing that.
Sarah has stressed all along that there was more to this that you needed to deal with....stuff that was on you. Again, back to the codependency and other issues..Iand think she's right. If you want to move forward and start repairing yourself, and your marriage...you have to start getting real with yourself and start learning how to accept what happened, try to start forgiving, and move forward. I'm SURE that the hurt is going to be there a LONG LONG time, sweetie, and you've done an amazing job muddling through this mess. There's no "perfect" way to do this...you're doing the best you can. You're being a good mom by considering what's right for your son...I commend you for all of that.
But, now, the REAL work begins. I would even recommend trying a new therapist. With all due respect to her, she sounds like she's acting almost like a "friend" rather than a therapist, which, support wise, is awesome. But, I think you're going to need someone who will be a little tougher with you...be a little more honest with you...even if it means telling you things you don't want to hear.
My suggestion is to ask the rehab center to recommend a private therapist, familiar with, and schooled in addiction issues...and start getting down to the nitty gritty. I think THAT would be a marvelous first step. Also, take advantage of the support groups for loved ones, like Alanon, Naranon. I think that would also be so helpful. You said you were going to look into some self help books about infidelity and addiction. Did you manage to find any you found helpful? Again, the rehab facility could probably recommend books and other resources...they would be a good place to turn to in that regard.
EVERYTHING (hopefully) is now out in the open. If you think about it...even if there are other things he's done, all related to his addiction...it just doesn't matter anymore. It's not going to change things, and all it will do, for you to find out, is rip that wound open again. You have to come to a place of acceptance, and fight the urge to search for more information. ANYthing you would find would only be hurtful, it probably wouldn't even be that much of a surprise. Trust is going to be an issue...for sure. You have to work extra hard to not allow yourself to fall into that paranoia trap, where you're searching, and suspecting...checking everything. That's no way to vbe...you'll drive yourself nuts.
Please stick around...or at least post an update here or there. I think you taking a break was actually a good thing. Even though you are getting suport here, I think this, and everything else ended up causing an overload...you were living...eating and breathing this situation. While it would be very hard NOT to...it certainly isn't healthy.
So, yes, please stick around, but also get involved with some other activities...choose a new hobby, join a toddler group where you can meet other Moms. It will be nice to distract yourself with some positive things. I think you've definitely been WAY overanalyzing, overthinking this situation from the moment it started. I don't judge you for that either..I would be even worse. So, don't take that as a criticism, rather just an encouragement for you to make a concerted effort to give your mind, and your heart a rest.
Looking forward to seeing you post, to find out what's been going on. How are you managing the holiday prep amongst all of this? Have you figured out how you will handle the holidays, as far as him seeing the baby? Will you spend time with your friends and family?
Much love to you, sweetie. I have prayed an awful lot for you, and continue to do so. I hope you will find some peace...you deserve it. It will take some work, but it will be worth it. You know you have my complete support. Anything and everything I say is just my opinion, I'm certainly no expert on how to handle this. Just giving you my view, as I see it, and trying to recommend things I think would help you. Hang in there, hon. XOXO
(Just a tip...the glitch has improved, but once in a while longer replies still won't go through, you'll see a message on the screen after trying to post that says "your post was not saved"...something like that. So, I would still recommend you copying your replies before hitting that submit button...in case you need to paste it into mult replies. Nothing worse than losing a long reply...grrr. Been there, done that! Maddening!!)
wow...you guys...thank you for all the support. i am so humbled. and so grateful to have all of you...i dont know how would have made it without you.
you everything that has been said to me has been honest, and correct. you all would not lie to me. you tell it like it is and want me to look at things from different perspectives.
nurse...i reread your posts several times...i know what you are saying is true even though i may not want to hear it. you sound like my mom. she says the same thing you said.
she told me the other day to stop playing the victim..that it was time. she said this to me:
" you got what you wanted...exactly. he gave it to you...no matter how you got it..you got it...you know it all...and now you want to play the victim again. what did you think was on the records that would make him leave the house? for 3 months? you already knew it was bad...that he was cheating, that he was using drugs...i mean, what else did you think it would possibly be? it is time to woman up here and stop playing the victim and really decide what you are going to do. the man is in rehab. that is the first step. you already know you are not going to end the marriage. stop playing that game. you already know. you are just mad. but rather than saying to yourself all the time..."i cant believe he could do this"...focus on what you are going to do to move forward and please...stop putting your head in the mud and pretending. he's an addict...he has been one for 17years...that tells you he has major issues that he is addressing. as much as you want to believe this is all about you. it is not. stop playing the poor cheated on wife who got lied to. what are you going to do now to get things moving in the right direction for you and that baby? stop being the victim and starting this whole saga all over again because you got access to a bunch of stuff that everyone told you was already there? the details are bad...but they always are when you are dealing with cheating and addiction. it is not pretty. it is time to really, really stop feeling sorry for yourself...and move forward. i am not going to sit here everyday and talk about how bad it all is..how bad he is...how he cheated, and how he is on drugs...and all the bad stuff related to that. we already know that. no need to keep rehashing. i am no longer going to support you snooping through all old emails, pictures...calling people...trying to figure it all out...because you already know it all. i mean...how much worse could it be....it makes no difference. i dont care if you found 2 women or 10...what do you want? you already know what this is about. just stop...and lets once and for all try to move forward and heal."
it was hard to hear that from her...but she wasnt playing. she is serious. all she wants to talk about now is how rehab is going, and if i am going to nar anon and what is being talked about there. she doesnt want to hear about his cheating or all the bad things he did. she wants to talk about marriage counseling and she told me to fire the therapist and only work with the therapist at the rehab who specialize in this whole thing. she told me she is not interested in hearing the dirty details about the women and how crazy they are or what anybody said...or this lie he told or that one. she wants to talk about how we are going to move forward. she said that she was no longer going to enable me anymore by sitting around all day talking about this...that it was not healthy...and that it was not doing anyone any good...especially me. she said that she loves me and that it was time to "just stop."
i am going to try. very hard to hear but i know that you guys are right.
yes, vicki...he told me he did heroin off and on for 17 years....must have been after his mom died. he said that he would go maybe a year without doing it...but that he would always include it in his life.
he wants to change his life. he says he is much happier not doing heroin or drinking and being sober.
this morning he cried pretty dramatically about how he would never cheat on me again...because he was getting his life together and figuring out why he did what he did...why he was not fulfilled and turned to heroin, alcohol and women for "more." he said that he is ashamed for all he has done to hurt me and our family. he hates that he craves heroin and just wants it to stop, he says he is committed to his program. he said that he wants another child with me and is not scared about it...that he realizes how important family is...and how time is an issue for us. he said that when he finishes his program he wants to talk about that. he said he wants to reconcile with me in truth and full transparency....and most importantly sober.
so, i guess we will just have to see what happens. his weeks are busy. rehab 3 times a week, marriage counseling 1 day a week, and then he has his individual counseling 1 day a week too. a lot going on.
17 years is a long time.
yes, he is at his brothers, but he is here everyday. y
Your Mom sounds like a smart cookie! I KNOW this stuff is hard to hear, hon.
You ARE a victim...you just need to stop dwelling on that. It sounds like you're making some really positive steps moving forward, that's great. Sounds like he's still really working hard at it...even better.
Be patient. This is going to take some time. Keep doing what you're doing. You know we're here for you! It's been a long road from the beginning. It's like following along with a dramatic TV series, only with real people.
We've all grown to really care about you and what happens. Keep us posted, okay?
Welcome back! I have been gone here and there also, but I did see the posts that Vicki put up for you a while back...
I think it was good for you to take a break. I also think that you again have been given some great advice by everyone who has posted above me. Nurse and your mother have given you some very tough love advice, and I agree with it whole-heartedly. I think that a few of us were hinting at some of those things before...
Your mother is a very smart lady, and it sounds like she has a great head on her shoulders. It was great to read what nurse's advice was and then see it mirrored in what your mom told you.
I think you are on your way if you give in to the process a little more, and it sounds like you are headed that way...
hi guys...honestly...it has been very difficult to read what you have all said...to hear my mother speak so directly...and at some times impatient....and matter of fact...and then i met with my therapist today, and she all but said the same thing. she told me to stop being the victim....yes she used that word. she also told me that i needed to work on not being so manipulative and codependent...she wants our focus to be on those things moving forward.
i feel like everything has been turned around. i mean, he did all these horrible things...and now it seems like i have to look at my issues...and it is true...but it hurts, you know?
I know that this is so hard. I don't think that anything is being said to hurt you or because you did anything wrong...everyone is just concerned for your well-being, and you are stuck... everyone wants to help you move forward to a healthier situation, and that means that you have to move past some things. It must be a real shock to hear some of these things...saying that you feel everything has been turned on you-- I guess maybe try to not think of it that way...it's hard for me to explain, but I guess up until this point, any negative thought was directed towards your husband...and now you feel that attention directed towards you. Yes he did all of these horrible things...but if you want to keep your relationship with him and move on to a happier life in general, it's time to start healing. Of course he did them...and of course it still hurts and will for a long time....but it will hurt for a VERY long time if you let it. You said earlier that the counselor called to ask if you were going to family therapy, and you didn't know if you were... I know that everything being said to you stings a lot right now...and I don't want to hurt you at all...I just want to help you figure this all out. Are you REALLY committed to staying in your marriage? There is no right or wrong answer...only you can say whether or not you will be able to move past this. You can choose to be all-in WITH your husband, as he works his recovery and get into marriage counseling soon....or you can choose to not participate, and move on from your marriage---it is your right to choose whichever one you feel you can do... and don't think about what you think you should do, just think about what you know in your heart. And then start moving in that direction...for your well-being and sanity....and for everyone else involved also. Of course this is only what I think right now, based on everything I've read from you...maybe there are other options too...
Please keep posting, I am trying to bring up some questions to help you, I just don;t want to bombard you when you are feeling so low:)
I previously posted on your Part 3 thread on Nov 19th. It's the same one Nursegirl referenced Dec 12th above on this thread.
I went back to read what I said. The timing of that was just before you took a break. Right after your private eye work LOL
Sounds like you are hearing the same thing from lots of diff people and I know its hard to hear. But one of my many friends in Alanon told me once, if you hear the same thing 3X in a row.......maybe you ought to listen. Or more likely maybe my higher power was talking to me thru other people and I was not listening so He kept repeating it until I got it.
Tonight, as I read your Part 3 thread AND this one, I see a repetitive theme.
Your Mom is spot on.....and she's healthy and she sounds like she must have some kind of background in understanding addiction or codependent behaviors.
She literally took the words right outta my brain. You are blessed to have her.....she's a keeper for sure :)
Have you read the book "Co-Dependent No More" by Melody Beattie?
Or any AlAnon or NarAnon daily meditations books? For 20 yrs I carried the ODAT (one day at a time) meditation book from AlAnon in my purse.
I read it on the pot, or in the car, or when I was upset, or when I couldn't stop my head from saying "but HE, but HE, but HE". I literally had to re-train my head AND my heart. I had been thinking in the sick victim role for soooo long that I didn't know HOW to do it any different. I had to learn.
And when I started focusing on ME and changing ME and talking to other people whose lives had been shattered by alcohol/drugs, I began to change and grow. We have focused on the addict in our life for SO LONG
that we have a hard time not obsessing. But that's part of how the family illness effects US. There is nothing wrong with admitting that living with and loving an addict has made us sick, too. We instantly start feeling better just by admitting OUR first step when working the 12 steps: "I admitted powerless over __________and my life has become unmanageable." I wish the whole world would study this fabulous tool for living!! You may not forget, but your focus will change. That in and of itself will make you a happier woman, mommie, daughter, friend and wife.
People got sick of my obsession and my broken record every single time they talked to me.....I was always saying my "but HE" deal. They got puking sick of me and I was sick of me, too. LOL!
I made reference to picking a scab in my last post in your Part 3. For me that is the perfect analogy. I have always been a "picker" LOL if you will.
Even my "picker" for men was broken until I got some help with my codependency issues. I have a sister who became suicidal she got so sick in her codependency (and she wasn't even married to one....she just grew u in my family Ha) I took her to trmt......not for addiction, but for her own
sickness. Since I am BOTH a recovering addict AND a recovering codependent sickie so I can relate BIG time to your heart and your situation.
I just hope you are sick and tired of eating, living and breathing this every solitary moment of the day. It will wear you out and not only will you not like who YOU are anymore......nobody else likes to be around someone that complains and is negative either. One woman I know got so sick and crazy living with her alcoholic husband, SHE's the one that had a nervous breakdown. And THEN she found the 12 step program for those who are in love with an alcoholic/addict. I, myself, felt such freedom when I finally gave myself that gift and got some help for ME.
I hope you'll be able to really HEAR the repetitive message here and give that gift to yourself, too.
Blessings to you, Miller~
The character limit problem in posting aka "failed to save post" LOL, was fixed on Tuesday night Dec 4th.
I know after your long post to Miller that you probably realized that, but I've been jibber jabbering with the mods and tech people since early November about the posting character limit glitch and PRAISE THE LORD IT'S FIXED!!!! YEAH!!!!
Wonderful wonderful posts! Clean in kansas really shared a lot of wisdom with you. Hers is a post worth rereading many many times!!
Don't mistake what everyone is saying with us saying it's YOUR fault. YOU are not responsible for the decisions he made, sweetie, no ma'am. You ARE responsible for putting your head in the sand...turning a blind eye to what was going on, and then how you chose to react after the fall out.
I want to be clear...I think you've done an amazing job trying to work through this. This is unchartered territory for you, honey. It's not like you've purposely done something wrong...not at all. You just got so hung up on ruminating about it...and keeping yourself stuck in the victim role. What else do you do, right? You ARE a victim in a lot of this. So, what we're saying isn't meant to mean that...that you've chosen to do something wrong. More like...you're stuck in this mindset that you didn't even know you were. And, this has been going on a lot longer than you might think, I'm sure. I think you did too good of a job fooling yourself...it's adding to that shock.
I'm going to copy/paste ks's words, because they're SO amazing, and they suit you perfectly:
I read it on the pot, or in the car, or when I was upset, or when I couldn't stop my head from saying "but HE, but HE, but HE". I literally had to re-train my head AND my heart. I had been thinking in the sick victim role for soooo long that I didn't know HOW to do it any different. I had to learn.
And when I started focusing on ME and changing ME and talking to other people whose lives had been shattered by alcohol/drugs, I began to change and grow. We have focused on the addict in our life for SO LONG
that we have a hard time not obsessing. But that's part of how the family illness effects US. There is nothing wrong with admitting that living with and loving an addict has made us sick, too. We instantly start feeling better just by admitting OUR first step when working the 12 steps:
One day at a time, Miller. This isn't something you will undo overnight. You've been angry and upset and resentful since day one. You've also been strong and held your ground...insisting on the terms you laid out. A lot of people would have enabled for 3 more years before getting to that point, so there are things you've done wonderfully. I mean, amazing! My hat's off to you, truly. While I can say these things to you...if I were in your shoes, girl...I promise I would have handled it 100 times worse. Truly. So, I'm definitely not judging you one bit.
I think you're stuck and scared because all this time..you've set up the rules, not really thinking your husband was going to comply..and now he has, meaning you have to face this all, head on.
I second what optimus said, too. You have a tough decision to make. You don't HAVE to move forward and repair your marriage. A lot of people just couldn't. If that's how you feel in your heart...or if that's what you're going to realize down the road, that's perfectly okay! Sometimes, the hurt just runs too deep. I think you're the type of person who is going to give it your all...and right now, there are too many issues that need addressed, with both of you...so I don't think it would be reasonable to make any big decisions right now. Just remember, if you get to that point....or you just sincerely don't have the fight in you...you have to do what's right for YOU.
These are tough things to hear, for sure. We're not at all trying to BLAME you for what happened...just trying to show you that it's much more complicated than what you think. You've definitely been stuck obsessing and playing that record over and over in your head, which is not healthy in any way.
Start digging in..and take your time. Buy a book or two about codependency, addiction and infidelity. Once you start reading, you'll probably have many "Ah-HA!!" moments.
We're here for you...as always. We don't have all the answers for you...but sometimes, just being a 3rd party...it helps with insight so much. We can see things you can't.
clean...i am going to get that book. what you have to say...along with the others is VERY hard to hear...but i hear you. i do. i guess i have been the poor victim for so long..honestly, i am just not sure how to be any other way. everyone is right..and deep down i know it. one thing that resonated with me was the fact that i know everyone in my family, my friends, everyone is tired of me. i know they are. when they see me call, or even see me coming, they know all i want to talk about is my soap opera...how he cheated and how he is on drugs and every single detail associated with what happend. i am always giving the play by play...the update on my life...and it is tiring. i find myself looking forward to talking to a new person for the day and telling the story to everyone i talk to. and i can see that they will listen for a while...but then they tune me out. one of my friends came out and said that she was tired of hearing about this all the time when in the end...all i am going to do it end up taking him back...so why keep suffering....trying to create more pain for myself. she asked me that the other day. i got mad and hung up on her...but i know there is some truth to what she said.
yes, my mother is a wise woman..always has been. she has a lot of expeirence in everything. she just knows so much, and is well respected...and most of the time RIGHT...especially when it comes to me. she told me this yesterday:
" that it is easy to feel like i am the only woman in the world whose husband cheated....and made terrible mistakes...but i am not...and definitely wont be the last. if you are going to keep you marriage..then do that...and stop making yourself miserable. own your part in he failed marriage as well...because the truth is that you are not perfect...you have issues to. as the victim, it is easy to walk around feeling sad...and acting like you have done nothing wrong..that you are perfect. but while he is focusing on getting is life together, it is time to focus on your own issues. for example....you are a manipulator, codependent, and dont love yourself. why?
1. why did you allow that mancave, and not have a key to it? that is where the cheating and drugs were done. you are his wife, and you own that house too, but yet when he told you that you could not go in there or have a key...you allowed it? why? anything being kept secret like that cant be good. why didnt you assert you role as his wife? i think it was to manipulate him. you knew that he didnt want a child, so you turned the other way, and let him act a fool so that he would "be happy" or satisfied or not balk about maybe not wanting the same things in life you did.
2. why be "okay" with your husband going out and coming home at 2-3 in the morning...on a friday night with single friends? what does a married man need to be out like that for? you knew it wasnt right, but yet you said nothing...you let him get away with it. a man is going to cheat if he wants to period...but it is almost like you supported an environment that allowed that kind of behavior. your low self esteem, or fear that you would "make waves" stopped you from putting your foot down...and that is not right. you have to have respect for yourself..expectation set for how you want to be married...again loving yourself and not giving anyone..especially your man permission to treat you like a doormat. own that you allowed that.
3. you allowed him to do drugs...even if it was weed, you allowed it. you cant control him or make him stop...but you could of had boundaries in place...for YOU. he drank the way he did around you and the baby, becasue he could. he did coke because he could. you caught him a few times doing coke...but didnt do anything...you put you head in the sand. i get that it was too much to take on..but the bottom line is that you knew. and you knew he was doing it with his friends. stop acting like the poor wife who didnt know. you did know. now that it is all out in the open, you want to be shocked and appalled of all the bull associated with that lifestyle. i mean...people who do coke, go out to bars, sell drugs, and hang out with other people who do the same thing are out there cheating, and doing all kinds of foul things. did you think that YOUR MAN was any different..he is not. as a matter fact, he is textbook.
4. lets think about why you didnt demand full transparency from him last year when the initial infedelity came out. why? he was still able to go out, still able to do drugs, still had the same friends, and still had that mancave....why? what is going on with YOU that YOU allowed that. forget him...but what is it with YOU. that is what the focus should be.
she told me that i cannot control another person...let alone my husband...but i can control me and how i live my life...and the people in my life will either be on board with what is acceptable to me or they wont.
she said that i could be an angel sent down by god....the perfect woman..but that it doesnt mean that my husband or any man will treat me that way and not hurt me. it is up to them. if they have issues, it doesnt matter how good i am, and i cant control that. she said i cant control him going to rehab, being faithful, or even being a good man...that is all on him. i need to stop being co-dependent thinking that well..."i will be happy if he goes to rehab, or if he does this." she said that i cant base my happiness on what HE does.
you guys...i guess the truth is that i am a manipulator, co dependent and have some serious self esteem issues that i am getting help for.
i do want to be honest about this....and from what i understand...i am not weak for saying this. that was my problem in the past...i felt like i was a weak woman for saying it...like how could i possibly give my marriage a try after all he has done.
but i wanted to say that i DO want my marriage. i know that in my heart...just not sure how to get there. i keep thinking i have to play some game...like i feel like i dont want to show my feelings to him too much...or let him think he has a chance...or like i have to keep punishing him....i am just being honest with you guys, okay? that is how i feel.
and i feel weak for saying that i do love him and want to work it out. like a doormat. my mother says that i am not a doormat anymore becasue i would not allow the same things i did.
but that is how i feel, and i dont know how to reconcile with feeling like this. without wanting to hurt or punish him.
in the marriage counseling we did...when he spoke a lot of anger came out...issues he had with me that i didnt want to hear. and i felt like "who is he to have any issus with me after what he has done?" but he does...and they are real....and have been kept quiet for a long time by him.
also....you guys didnt really say anything about him telling me that he has been doing coke for 17 years. he said off and on he has been doing it that long.
is this me again being a victim becasue this news is so bad? when i asked my mom about it she said that she already knew he had been doing it a long time...the bottom line is that he has been doing it. what difference does 3 years or 10 make? he has a problem and is getting help.
just a lot to take in, you know?
vicki told me a while back that she would be surprised if he had only been doing it a few years...i guess once again, she was right.
hun just a couple things for you to think about. i know how you want to "bad mouth" him now about all the terrible things he did and how horrible he is i totally get it. i did it too. please take my advice and dont do that with your family and friends. i now regret many of the things i said to certain people because my husband & i are still together and i dont want them to continue to think bad things about him. i gave them much fuel to add to the fire back then and am now sorry i did. i dont want them to judge him, that isnt their place.
i did mention to you a while ago about forgiveness and bittereness and how it will hold you prisoner or free you. i know how very fresh all your wounds are. my husband has been clean for almost 3 years and i still find myself saying negative things to him, reminding him of his past, twisting the knife to make him feel as bad or worse then i did and sometimes still do. believe me, they know now exactly what they did and they feel worse them we can ever imagine. time does heal, be patient, please dont dwell on the negative things, dont replay things over and over it will continue to torment you.
yesterday is gone, we cant have a do over, we have today, and no promise of tomorrow.
are you still going to church? have you been meeting with your pastor?
hugs and prayers
Miller...I appreciate your honesty so much...I totally understand what you are saying...
" i keep thinking i have to play some game...like i feel like i don't want to show my feelings to him too much...or let him think he has a chance...or like i have to keep punishing him....i am just being honest with you guys, okay? that is how i feel.".....
Those are all natural things to feel...but it's an unhappy way to live...in "limbo" like that...and it's time to work past that point. You can still be and feel hurt from everything...that's normal, but if you love him, you need to stop punishing him.
Everything you wrote that your mom said....yes you knew a lot about everything going on...that does not excuse what he did, it just means that you knew.
When you wrote in your last post..."also....you guys didn't really say anything about him telling me that he has been doing coke for 17 years. he said off and on he has been doing it that long."... this is you hanging on to the victim role again... it's an incidental finding in a big mess...it really doesn't change anything. Bottom line is that he is an addict, and because of his disease, he made some huge mistakes over the years and ended up hurting you very much. But he is still the man you married and the man you love. So he has been an addict longer than you would have imagined....does that really change anything RIGHT NOW? Does that make you not want to be with him? Remember that you knew he did these drugs off and on....so you may have not known he was a full-blown addict, but you knew he was doing unhealthy, illegal things, and you were ok with it....or at least, you let it continue. I believe that his addiction is responsible for just about everything he did....which would make ME hate the addiction more than the man...but the only way to get to that point is to really learn more about the addiction....even the rehab counselor said ""no....he does not have alot of problems. he has one gigantic problem that is the issue." THAT problem is his addiction. The point is....he has an addiction...it really doesn't matter how long he's had it...especially when you did turn a blind eye to it so many times. So please try to not focus on the 17 years...it's another thing that you are hanging on to that will hinder your progress.
His addiction controlled his life for so long, and now he is getting control of his life again...and you need to get control of your own life...and then together, if you BOTH choose, you can get control of your marriage.
Miller--we just want you to be happy. When I found out about my husband, I did want to dwell on it and figure it out and everything...but I also wanted to get away from it...it hurts too much to keep thinking about it and to stay in that spot. I had to decide what I wanted to do and I did it. I stayed and worked on my marriage and realized that I had contributed to the downfall of our relationship also. If I would have kept punishing my husband--whether I did it directly or indirectly by just not wanting to move on, eventually, I think he would have had enough. I'm not saying that he would have left me, but he was so ashamed and so sorry and so devastated by his own actions, that I didn't need to keep reminding him of what he did. It was keeping us from healing and moving on. I was broken. I felt like he had broken me. BUT, WE were broken too...and he was broken. And I couldn't be selfish and only want to heal myself, everything needed healing....and I love this man! No matter what happened, I LOVE him! I couldn't stand to see that he had been so low that he had done what he did. I was partially responsible for him getting to that point. And it took me a while to realize it...I kept telling him that I didn't think we had a bad marriage prior to the infidelity....and that surprised him. And I really had to dig down and think...and I saw that he was right...and that what our marriage had been for so long was unhappy. He started to talk about his feelings...and that some of the things I did before made him feel really badly....and I had no idea. And I look back now and see so many times that he tried little things to improve our relationship, and I shot him down every time. I was so wrapped up in my health issues...I never realized how lonely he was, and how it was my fault. I gave him no attention...I never made him feel special....so many things. I'm telling you all of this because I want you to see that although my husband did the big bad thing that blew our marriage up...he wasn't a horrible bad person who needed to be punished...and I needed to help repair the marriage as much as he did. I needed to decide to forgive...and then rebuild.
I know that you may not be ready to jump back into your marriage, and I don't think any one of us thinks that you should do that as of now....but you CAN choose to forgive, and show him love and care....and you CAN allow him to show you the same. That doesn't mean that you go back to normal, it just means that you open yourself up to healing...because you are still so closed off to the possibility. Moving on doesn't make you weak....it actually makes you strong.
Alanon has .org and .com websites. They have chat rooms, a way to type in your area and find a meeting close to you. They have TONS and TONS of wifes JUST LIKE YOU!! You will feel at home with Alanon people. You won't have to tell them your life story. They have lived it already.
Counseling is good; family participation at your hubby's rehab is good; church is good; counseling w/a pastor can be good. BUT......no one KNOWS how sick you can get living with an addict except other people who DO. Even if you don't care for your first meeting, try a diff one or try going again. The time of day, the subject of the meeting, the person leading the mtg will be diff and the ages of the people, will all vary. But I PROMISE, YOU WILL START FEELING BETTER!! Do you want to start feeling better?
For me, at one point in my life, I had to separate physically from my hubby to work on me. I asked him NOT to call me or come over unless I was the one to contact HIM. I needed the space, the timeout from all the alarms that went off inside of me. I know that your hubby is living at his brothers (at least I think he is), but yet now he is coming over to "see the baby" every day of the week. Maybe you need to draw another new line in the sand here for awhile. It's ok to do that. If you don't have his physical presence each and every day and you get yourself to a mtg.......you will start feeling better. That first step still remains: "Have you admitted you are powerless over your husband and his addiction(s) and that YOU are powerless"??? You gotta take your foot off first base to get to second,
And it's scary. But YOU CAN DO IT.
The elephant will get off your chest and your mind will stop replaying the videos you have in there. What difference does it make if your hubby has been addicted to coke and/or alcohol for 3 yr, 7 yrs or 17years?? I mean really, does it matter? You already know that alcohol and drugs change a person's behavior. You must hate the "addiction" not the person. You gotta give yourself a break here. You Mom is spot on AGAIN imo. But its hard for you to hear all this. Just go to a meeting and share with them there. You will make life long friends who also have been cheated on while their husbands were using. It goes with the territory.
Let today be a NEW one. A NEW 24 hrs. Quit rewinding and replaying and picking your scabs. It is making you sicker.
The ODAT book I mentioned to you not only has a meditation for each day but has all emotions and feelings listed in the back so you can just look up ALL the readings about anger, or hurt, or betrayal, or whatever that minute of that day is presenting in your life. The book is approved AlAnon literature and can be purchased on Amazon, Alanon's site, or even the publishers site "Hazelden". For you to move forward with your life, you must do something NEW and ACT differently. You can get an amazing amount of love and support from others if you want it. If you are open to working a program for yourself, it will also bond you with your husband in a new and incredibly beautiful way. HOW it works is the same in both programs. The healing 12 steps are the same too.......it's just that your hubby's addiction is coke and alcohol.........your addiction is HIM~
And don't forget the book "Co-Dependent No More" by Melody Beattie.
You will relate, you will cry and you will grow and you will feel better.
I can't add anything to what these great people have said except ks brings up something I've said a few times. You're seeing him too much...it's muddying the waters for you. If you don't want to take away any time from him and the baby, then you choose a time where you will be there...say 3 days a week. The other times, he could be there with one of your friends or something. It's WAY too much, too soon.
I've read all your threads but haven't commented because everybody else is doing so well and has more experience with what you are going thru.
But...just wanted to say I can so relate to what you say about the wanting to love and forgive but not only being angry but feeling weak and like a doormat if you do. I struggle with this every day. My situation is different in the details in that I had a severe domestic violence incident occur with my ex-bf following a very short (months) downward spiral with alcohol. Two lives were gutted that day. Mine that I am trying to piece back together while experiencing horrible PTSD and his, in that he is now a convicted felon struggling to find a job and a way to get his life back on track.
MY therapist has been a big help in separating my support of his recovery and my desire to work on rebuilding the friendship while leaving the outcome of the relationship up in the air for now. It's okay to not decide if you are 'all in' on the marriage even if you are 'all in' on supporting his recovery and/or 'all in' on maintaining the bond that you still feel. Nothing needs to be set in stone in the next week. My therapist tells me 'work with where you are right now'.
I do get where you are with the wanting to punish him. I have mostly gotten past that with time and therapy but it still springs up at times. And right now I am not really working on my PTSD triggers regarding relationships and intimacy, partly because I'm not ready although I've come far in the last two years, but partly because I still feel like D**m it, he threw away all rights to physical intimacy the night he assaulted me and forced me. But yet I do feel like he is a good man, and he has never wavered in his own recovery path and in taking responsibility and being accountable for what happened that night. My brain and my heart on not yet on the same page.
What has helped is just being honest about where I am, and accepting it. And focusing on not lashing out when dealing with my stuff, but also not making promises that I'm not ready to keep. Don't withhold because you want to manipulate, but be okay with withholding if you are honestly not ready to advance.
Not sure if I've helped here or just confused things :) but sending you a big hug!
thank you all for your inspiring posts....once again i am s grateful to receive such an outpouring of support.
deadgamegrrl...thank you for sharing your story.i can relate to so much of what you have shared and i hope that you will continue to stay on and share. i think you are right, i need to be honest with where i am and stop playing games with myself...and accept how i really feel. everything you have said has helped me a great deal.
everyone....i hear what you are saying. i do...and i WANT to be happy. i do. i am TIRED of being miserable every single day and dwelling about every single little detail of the cheating, and the drugs. I AM SO TIRED. i have bags under my eyes. my mom asked me what clean asked me the other day..."dont you wat to you be happy?" YES i do...and rather than saying all the time that i dont know how....maybe i should just really try what has been advised here and see what happens. the crying all the time, being depressed, and constantly thinking about all the horrible things that have happend surly have not made me "feel" any better. it almost seems like torture in a way. like pulling up the dirty pictures i found when i hijacked his email account...what good is that doing me? NOTHING.
i also need to get back into the church. i stopped going. my husband said that the only thing that can help him is a higher power...he has mentioned this a few times. i feel the same way...or at least i am getting to that point.
i have made the terrible mistake of telling everyone who will listen all my problems. bad move. i wish i kept my mouth shut now. because in my heart i know that i will want to reconcile with my husband, and now everyone knows..and will judge him/us. nothing i can do about it now....but as of today, i have decided to stop "telling my story" to every damn person. i need to stop.
i DO need to join the group whether that be on-line or in person. you are right. and i will do this for sure.
you guys....just being honest again....but one thing that i struggle with all the time is would my husband have done all of these things if he were not using drugs and alcohol? or, is it an excuse...to say that he was doing coke and that is why he did all the lying, cheating, and horrible things. i spoke with a former friend of his the other day.....he was my friend too and he was one of the people who gave me the heads up last year that my husband was cheating. he is also a former coke user. he use to get high from what i undertand with my husband all he time out in that mancave....all the time. and one of the things he always says to me now is that my husband needs to get off coke...and that he needs to be tested to make sure he is off of it. he said that i should not even consider being with him if he is not getting clean. and he was serious when we were talking. he said that he "partied" with him all the time...and that all the guys they hung out with did coke. he said that it was part of the fun, the lifestyle. he told me pointblank that the coke, the cheating, and the alcoholic behavior all goes together and always did when they were all hanging out. he said that when my husband would drink he would always be the one falling down drunk....and then he would be high on coke...and then that would lead to making bad decisions about everything...including cheating because when on coke a person can get very sexual and want to party even more...no limits. he warned me over and over last week that it is the lifestyle that needs to change and that a lifestyle that includes cocaine and drinking will bring nothing but the same problems in the future. he said that he loved us both even though my husband hates him now for telling me everything...but that he did it because i was his friend too...and didnt want to see me being treated like a doormat. he also said all of the same things my mom said as well. i appreciated him being so honest.
but i share this becasue i do sometimes have a difficult time accepting that "the coke made him do it" defense. but maybe what i need to start thinking about is the overall picture....he is addict who has been doing this or 17 years....why in the world should i expect his behavior to be honorable? not all addicts, but some...and this might include my husband....lie and have a lot of issues that have gone unresolved. addiction changes a person's behavior.....in a horrible way...and unfortunately my addict engaged in cheating behavior....all part of this terrible disease.
maybe i need to begin to think like that.
you see, i am a member of an infedelity site...and this woman who i have been talking to told me that he is a cheater AND an addict and should be held accountable for both. maybe so..but i find it hard to really make them 2 completely separate issues. she is a member of the infedelity site, but yet her husband has never cheated on her....and she has not be involved with an addict before...so it is hard to listen and not be skeptical of her advice especially after all i have learned.
i find myself chasing my tail about this. like....what came first? the chicken or the egg mentality.
I think the cheating was all entertwined with the substance abuse, as being high lowers inhibitions for doing other things that are a seriously bad idea. Both of the issues stem from a larger problem of him not handling what is bothering him correctly and communicating that, but instead numbing and escaping whether through alcohol, drugs or sexual attention.
And I agree that you should probably not talk to people about your issues. It only makes it harder to figure out what to do with all the input you are getting from people that can't understand the bigger picture, and from people that are very quick to judge what they (think they) would do and what you should then do.
I am in a medium size city but the downtown area is very enmeshed, especially among those of us that own businesses etc. The night I got assaulted was the shot heard 'round the town. Especially as it all started at a private holiday party a week before Christmas. And EVERYONE had (and continues to have) an opinion. It's been very hard to deal with, as no one understands the underlying addiction and problems that led to what happened. Not that it excuses what happened, but I was not a 'domestic violence victim' abused and/or controlled during the relationship. I am not a stupid little girl going back to get hit again, which is what most people like to tell me.
Quoting my therapist (again lol, she earns her keep) only the two of us know what is going on and what we are doing/not doing going forward. Only the two of us will be living/not living in the relationship. Everyone else is just noise.
The only thing worse than making the wrong decision is to make a decision based on that noise from others that you will be living with, not them. And also, for me at least when I start buying in to the 'life decision by popular vote' theory it is usually more to do with my people pleaser self coming back out in an unhealthy way. We need to heal, and we need to make decisions for ourselves, that we can live with, be happy with, and move forward based on our own brains and hearts.
Oh girl.....you're starting to "get" it and I'm so happy about just the changes I hear in you in 24 hrs!!! If I lived by you, I'd come and get you, (kiss on your baby first of course ha!) and we'd go arm in arm to an Alanon mtg!
If we decided to try another group too, we'd go to some more together! And we'd go gab for HOURS after the meeting, too! LOL
I'd advise Alanon. I don't have any "lived in" experience in Naranon, but believe you me, the way all the addicts in my life are right now.....I'm thinkin about checking it out, too. If you want to just start somewhere,
check out the .org and .com sites of Alanon and visit their chat rooms and find out about online meetings. Also, at least check out where some mtgs are close to where you live and let God tug on your heart about that when the time comes. (may be sooner than you think Ha) But FOR SURE, treat yourself to buying an ODAT meditation book and read it every day.....maybe 5x/day.....look up a feeling you're having in the back even if it isn't that day on the calendar. It will get your engine started and your brain patterns headed in a new direction. The key word....NEW.
Yes, yes, yes.....I vote yes on renewing your relationship with your higher power. For me, it's God and I'm a non-denominational Christian. The Bible is full of help and comfort. Bible's even have a concordance in the back that reference feelings, situations, and verses to read that help us. Get out your spiritual shovel and pile in on (in.....I mean, ha!). If your hubby is depending on his higher power and you are too.....WATCH OUT.....BIG
TIME Blessings are ahead. Will you have to go thru pain to get to it?
Yep......but oh how precious and sweet your marriage can and will be if you make HIM head of your individual lives and then your marriage.
Carry your ODAT book with you, put it in the bathroom (ha), I had some of my most intimate, quiet ah-ha moments sitting on the john!!! LOL
As to your mutual friend that has shared with you......is he in recovery?
Does he go to meetings? Your hubby will work thru all his resentments towards this guy when he gets ready. Right now, he's diggin in some old
deep doodoo and trying to get well himself. You don't get to that step of amends and healing in the beginning. That's why the 12 steps are in a certain order.
I'll share something with you about alcohol and "cheating". For a lot of men (I'd gander to say MOST, but I'm not the judge and can only speak from experience with all MY family members, etc.) the moment the alcohol hits the brain of ANY man, he automatically gets this big "T" on his chest that stands for Testosterone (LOL) They start thinkin with their you know whats, and their ability to be faithful and God-like is absolutely impossible. iI have specifically told my hubby (this has been many yrs ago, but still..) I do trust him implicitly........UNLESS he has alcohol in him. Then......
fergetta bout it!!!!! God is the last person they are wanting to please while intoxicated much less their wife! Alcohol makes us self-centered. Actually, ANY addiction makes us self-centered. Even being addicted to our "addict" makes US self-centered. All we think about is ourselves and what a rotten deal we've been dealt.
The woman on the infidelity site........I wouldn't be wantiing to follow her myself. Addiction and a spiritual solution to our problems doesn't sound like anything she is living or has any knowledge of. It's important to let those lead you who have what you want. Doesn't sound like she's got anything that you want, but that's just my opinion, of course ha!
While under the influence of alcohol or another drug, the person that acts out a behavior is NOT the same person. You fell in love with your husband for a reason. When my husband and I were separated yrs back, a recovering friend of mine asked me to do something. She asked me to name or write down 4 or 5 character traits that attracted me to my husband. I DID NOT WANT TO DO THAT!!! I wanted to keep on hating him and b*tch about him.
But I did it.......and it helped to begin a change in my thinking patterns. To realize those core values were still in him.....and I wasn't even looking for those anymore because I was too busy feeling sorry for myself.
You are doing what I did and I still do.....you are trying to "figure out" all this stuff that doesn't need to be figured out. I get myself into this "analysis paralysis". It really serves NO purpose.......keeps us stuck and sick.
One of the pages in the ODAT book of Alanon says to ask yourself this question "how important is THIS particular event/thing in relationship to the WHOLE REST OF MY LIFE?" Usually, I found my answer was NOT VERY.
Here's another quote from the ODAT book (I have a head for ditties, sorry)
"Some folks worry and putter, push and shove.....
Lookin for little mole hills to make big mountains of"
Ok....better settle myself down.LOL I could talk to you forever and would delight in going to a meeting with you. But since reality is reality.......just do it for yourself, girl. Keep movin in this direction......no road is the wrong road......you can either turn around and go back, or the road will fork, and you can choose your direction THEN. For today, love yourself enough to do some healthy things for YOU......cause you are so worth it~
Here's how I see it. Again, just another opinion...so take it for what it's worth.
I think the cheating and drug use absolutely go hand and hand...and I'm sure he probably wouldn't have done it had he not been high. The thing is, that doesn't negate what he did, and doesn't make it any easier to accept.
I think you're getting hung up on trying to again find reasons to make it easier to accept that he cheated, you're trying to lessen the impact, which is normal. Regardless of the circumstances....you've been hurt by both things, and they both need dealt with, seperately. You need to deal with the infidelity AND the addiction.
I'd be willing to bet that the cheating hit much harder. It's normal to want to try to "rationalize" it, to lessen your own pain. That's a defense mechanism. You keep getting hung up on the details, when in the end, they honestly don't matter. The hurt is the same, and you're going to deal with it. The 17 years don't matter...exactly WHAT he did doesn't matter...those details just catastrophize the situation for you, twisting the knife.
Your husband didn't do what he did because he's a bad person, or because he doesn't love or respect you...like his friend said (very wise, btw)...it was that whole lifestyle...the man cave, the coke, drinking, sex. It was all wrapped up into one. I highly doubt he would have been "sexting" anyone if he was sitting on the couch watching a football game, drinking a Dr. Pepper, you know?
You'll get there....but this is just more of the same..the overanalyzing, picking apart of the details that keeps your mind running in circles. That will take some time, and some work to change, but you'll get there, of that I have no doubt. Eventually, you'll get to a place where you just accept what has happened...the details won't matter anymore. It's okay that they matter now...just don't feed into them (as much as you can).
You're doing good..and I commend you for being honest with us here. It's good that you're comfortable talking about things...especially after we all gave you a dose of our brutally honest opinions. Don't hold back, or be afraid to tell us things. You're trying to navigate through this...and you've gotten great advice from so many people, both in your real lifem, and here.
Maybe it would help you to make a list of the things that you should be/want to be doing. You seem very much like a "list" kind of person. You could start with...
1. Go to church more, turn to God
2. Stop telling my story...it can be damaging later and will keep me stuck in the same cycle of thinking/ruminating.
3. Alanon/Naranon...turn to these for support...develop support systems
4. Get books about infidelity and drug abuse...I think you almost have to, for healing purposes, deal with them seperately, in your mind, even though they're related.
5. Pick a new interest, something that would allow for some healthy distraction.
YOU'RE USING THE TOOLS THAT YOU SOUGHT OUT SO EFFECTIVELY
THIS IS ALL YOU
YOU DID THIS FOR YOURSELF, FOR YOUR CHILD, FOR YOUR MARRIAGE
AND YOU'RE THERE
WHEN I SAY IT'S ALL DOWN HERE FROM HERE
I MEAN YOU'VE GOT YOUR HIGHEST DEGREE
AND YOU'RE AT THE TOP OF YOUR GAME
NO MATTER WHAT YOU PERSONALLY DECIDE TO DO
FROM THIS MOMENT FORWARD DEAR
YOU'RE AT THE TOP OF YOUR GAME
AND YOU CAN TAKE THAT ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK
BELIEVE IN YOURSELF, YOU'RE THE STRONGEST YOU'VE EVER BEEN
AND THAT YOU'LL FOREVER BE
JUST TRUST YOURSELF
AND BE YOURSELF
YOU ARE YOU NOW
YOU ARE A PRINCESS, NOW
YOU HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS TO EVERYTHING THAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
YOU'RE THERE HONEY
DEEP BREATH AND CALM YOUR NERVES
YOUR EYES ARE WIDE OPEN
YOU'RE STRONG AND YOUR A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH
STAY STRONG MILLER
THIS IS YOU TAKING YOUR BEST LIFE
MAKING YOUR BEST LIFE
YOUR NIGHTMARE IS OVER
IT'S TIME TO HEAL
YOU KNOW THIS
NOTE TO ADDICTION, CLEANSED BY FIRE, ALICE COOPER
Do you think I don't know who you are
A fallen star
When I feel my soul scream out at night
I know you're not far
You need a better disguise
This one won't win any prize
Cleansed by fire, cleansed by fire
I may seem only half-glued
But I can see right through you
What about dark
What about light
What about wrong
What about right
What about death
What about sin
What about the web you're trying to spin
What about truth
What about life
What about glory
What about Christ
What about peace
What about love
What about faith in God above
What about war
What about hell
What if I stumble
What if I fell
What about blood
What about greed
And all of these things you're offering me
Yeah, what about me, little me
You lose and I win
You couldn't suck me in
It's over, you have no power
And I'm found
And I'm Heaven bound
Go back to where you belong
To where you fell
Go to hell
Go to hell
wow...you guys...thank you for all the encouragement and support. night...i love that song...thank you.
everything you guys are saying is so right...everything.
you know in rehab, they test the patients randomly....i saw that my husband left on the table the results of his last several drug tests...they have all been negative..i guess they test for 9 different drugs including coke and alcohol. he has been clean for 32 days now i believe. he seems to be very proud of that. he says that he wants to be like the other people in his group at rehab....some of them have been clean for 100 days...and he is shooting for that. it is surreal that our conversations are about things like this. but it is. you know he goes monday, wednesday, and thursday. wednesday is the night for the patients to bring the family members. i am going for the first time on wednesday. the rehab therapis told me that we should continue to attend the marriage counseling that we have been going to on monday...right before rehab. so, this has been the way of life in my world. she told me that we should both be getting as much support and help as possible.
she told me that by going to the family meetings, i will learn so much more about how the families are effected...and meet other people that are going through what we are going through. so, i am going. and i am going togo back to my nar anon meetings....but i really want to join the group on line. i like the idea of joining a chat room and talking to other wives.
you guys....i am really starting to realize that i am being the victim. i am. it is almost like i am looking to start stuff.....or do anything to get any discussion i am having with anyone to eventually lead towards talking about all my issues. i found myself doing that with my husband today. it was a perfectly normal day....everything was going good. and i found myself obsessing about him cheating....and how his family never liked me...and how they never called to see how i was doing while we were separated.....and then i talked to him about it....and he really didnt know what to say. he asked if we could talk about it in marriage counseling. that is fine...but it was almost like i was trying to get something started...just so that i could continue to talk about or dwell on "what happend." i have never gotten along with his crazy family....and yes, they are toxic and crazy.....so why on earth should i start thinking they will have any sympathy for me....or want to see how i am doing. heck, they all blame me for what happend...and now i am suppose to think they would be decent to me? that is a joke....and i already know that. so why get upset about that now?
to be the victim again, that's why? and i was thinking about the cheating again...and wanted to talk to him about it again....and for what? i mean, what more can we say about it? i was being the victim again....and being manipulative and codependent again. i saw it firsthand.
it sort of went like this...he talks about how he wants to be clean for 100 days like the other people in his group..and how he is happy not to be drinking or doing coke...and then later on, i want to talk about the cheating and how his family doesnt like me...and mad at him about it. crazy. the only way to decribe the look on his face was that of a CAVEMAN. he looked dazed and confused...like he couldnt process what i was saying..like all he could compute was going out and killing some big bison and bringing it home to feed on....anything else was just too complex. you know what i mean? in his brain, he is in rehab, transparent, going to counseling, and has stopped drinking...and of course that i have never gotten along with his people....so, what is she talking about?
you know, when i dont go there....and just let things be.....we are good. even better now that he has been sober. i have GOT to work on bringing all the other stuff into the mix every single minute of the day. and i am going to work on it by getting the help that you guys are telling me about.
i know that i really, really need it.
one thing i know is true is that....it is all out in the open like you said....the cheating, the drugs...you name it. it is what it is. i have heard the worst of it....and anything else....any other little detail does not matter. i mean, like you said, what difference does that make? none. it is doing me no good going over eveything...the play by play....it only ends up hurting me in the long run.
i am so thankful to have all of you by my side as i go through this time.
Hey Girl, I think it's a great idea for you to take Rudy's advice and save your conversations about how you feel about all the nastiness with the marriage counselor, and it sounds like you know that too, which is great.
Now you've got Marriage Counseling on Monday.
Family Day on Wednesday.
Alanon on _______________.
What about your therapist? I thought you had a therapist as well? Someone for you, just to help you deal with the stuff going on in your head.
So, if you're making your goal, to not talk about this stuff outside of therapy, and instead concentrate on positive things, maybe it's time for a regular dinner/movie/walk in the stars with Rudy and you? 30 days for him is huge. I think you both need to celebrate that. Why not go with him to a meeting so he can pick up a 30 day chip (again) with you by his side and make a BIG deal of it. You know how to do that. Treat it like a birthday. Get him a present. Have a cake. Buy him a watch or something. Let him know that you know that he's done everything you've asked, and baby, try try try to save the venting for the therapist's couch. That's what i would do at this point. Let it be a therapist that talks to you about
Smile girl, Ryan's Daddy is Saving Himself. Your Son has a Daddy who truly cares. It's everything that a person could ever want. Listen, for a guy whose consistently smoked dope his whole life, what he's done this last 30 days is HUGE. Trust me, I know. Time to Celebrate honey.
So, i guess what i'm saying is, save the ruminations for a therapists office, and make your time with your family into a celebration of life.
And listen, forget about his side of the family. Just give up on that. Rudy has to as well. The way that Rudy was raised, by those people, is a good part of why he's an addict. Right? A daddy and granddaddy that cheated consistently, and all that goes with that type of behavior? It's unhealthy, and nothing that you need to be part of, because it's unhealthy. Rudy knows that, Rudy loves you and resents his family for not treating you well, but they didn't treat him well either. They enabled him to get to where he's at, and while he's trying to extract himself from that , you're saying that you want to be back in it (under your terms)? You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, right? Just celebrate the fact that YOU have come from a good family, and instead of trying to get into something with Rudy's family, try instead to allow Rudy to come home to your camp, to your family. Give him a good family, he hasn't got one honey. He's like an orphan right now. So, save it for the therapist's couch, and celebrate your side of the family. Make it a point of having dinner with your side of the family. What do you think about that?
thank you for the support night...i really appreciate it as usual. so, on monday rudy goes to rehab, and we have marriage counseling before that session....on tuesday, i go to see my therapist....on wednesday it is family night at the rehab place. i am going tomorrow for the first time. and then on thursday...rudy goes to rehab. i want to join the nar anon on line because the rehab for families is at the same time the nar anon meeting is in person. the rehab therapist is encouraging me to go to the family meetings. so i am going to go.
the other thing is that the rehab lady told me that rudy is having a hard time with giving up the pot use. she said that he has been talking about that in their classes. i see the results of his drug tests that they do twice a week and he test negative for all 9 drugs except pot. i think he has gone from doing it every single day...and i mean every single day down to saturday and sunday. i noticed that when he does not do it, he breaks out in these sweats during sleep...and has to change his nightshirt twice. they are drenched.
so, i dont think he deserves a celebration...he is not sober....becasue he is stil using pot. the lady at rehab said he has been smoking pot for over 20 years so that it may take some time. but that he has got to get off of all mind altering substances. she said that his test for coke and alcohol have been negative for 32 days. honestly, i have never seen him not smoke pot, you guys...i mean, he did this everyday since i have known him. him cutting back this much is still a shock to see. but he knows he needs to do more....must give it all up.
during the week when he is on nothing...not even pot, he is a completely different person....i like the clean and sober man.
i received a call today from that friend of his...you know the one who told me about the cheating.....he called to check in on me. i think i am going to ask him not to call me anymore. one, i know that rudy would have a coronary...and two...what is the point? i mean, he has already told me so much...and i know enough. today, he was just telling me all about the coke usage...and how much they did...and how he would "snort, toot, bump"...that is the lingo he used....he told me all about how they did all of this in the mancave...whenever they went out...or how when i would come outside to say hello to them in the mancave....he would say..."my wife is coming....put it away." and how it was pretty much a must when they went out to he bar....and how he always was the guy who had it on him. how he did it when he first woke up in the morning. every visit to our house included them getting high on coke. and how every single one of their friends did it too. sooooooooooo, after listening to you guys the other day, i have decided that i dont need to talk to him anymore...for what? i already know that he was cheating...and now i know the coke usage was not just recreational. no. it was something that he did all the time. and it has been confirmed that he sold the coke so that he could have his own supply. that is how he maintained his habit. no news there. it is all ugly and bad...but it is what it is. he has been off of the stuff for 32 days and is in rehab....and knows that there is no way in the world he can reconcile with me while active in his addiction and without rehab, so why dwell on what i already know. my boundaries are clear and they are not being negotiated..so i am not being a doormat. i am just moving forward...and that is what i want to do, even though it is hard.
and it is hard not to sit and talk to his friend about all the bad stuff my husband did. i am working on that.
i saw my therapist today, and it was a great meeting...as usual. she is all for me being honest with myself, and moving forward. i am giving it all i have to do just that..but it is so hard, you guys.
we had marriage counseling yesterday...and it was difficult....that is where i think we both feel safe getting things out. a lot of anger on both sides. i keep wanting an explanation...trying to make senses of everything...and he cant explain it to me anymore than he already has...and that has been hard in counseling. his position is that he has done everything that i have asked. he say that there is no justification for the horrible things he did with cheating...and drugs. he says that he has explained to me that being a coke addict and an alcholic played a major role in his horrible decisions...especially with the lying and cheating...and that he never cared about any of the women. he said that he has no desire at all to be unfaithful to me again...and would not want to bring that kind of hell back into our lives. he said that everything bad that could possibly happen from him behavior has happend and that he does not want to go there....everything from getting caught and hurting his wife....going to jail....not being able to see his son....losing his home, problems at work, the embarrassment and humiliation....and then all the work involved in rebuilding his life. he said that it just isnt worth it. he said that GOD HA REBUKED him! i put that in caps because he raised it in therapy.
but even after all of that....i still asked him "why" in therapy. i know crazy, hugh? just being honest. he got frustrated. and so did i. i feel like a dog chasing my tail sometimes. i guess it will take time.
he has a rehab book where they write down notes. i noticed that he wrote reasons why he feels triggers...he said when he is happy, depressed, bored, angry. and then the book goes on to tell them how to address the triggers. and he wrote about how he wants to really get serious about a side business he has been researching...something he has always wanted to do so that he could be fulfulled.
wow...he is really going through this....this is REALLY a problem. no more denial. he is a coke addict. damn. sometimes i just cant believe it.
when i looked through the book i couldnt help but wonder if he wants to use when he fights with me during this difficult time. i am sure he does.
You said about his shirts getting wet in the middle of the night....has he moved back in?
That's one subject you seem to almost never address, the frequency of him being at the house. A few of us have told you we think you moved way too fast, yet you never seem to address it. Is that because he's back in? Don't be afraid to tell us things, hon. Of course there are things we may not agree with, that's okay! I've wiondered about that...and that comment you made certainly seems as though you guys may be back under the same roof.
I know you're working on it...but this is a perfect example of the over-dramatizing...I just want to point it out:
wow...he is really going through this....this is REALLY a problem. no more denial. he is a coke addict. damn. sometimes i just cant believe it.
when i looked through the book i couldnt help but wonder if he wants to use when he fights with me during this difficult time. i am sure he does.
Yes, denial time has been over for a while...it doesn't do you any good to say things like that, as though GASP! Can you believe it? You know? That kind of stuff is keeping you stuck. Just like getting stuck on all the "terms".
The friend definitely needs to go....none of that is helpful for you at all. Unless he is a very big support system, in which case you need to tell him VERY clearly those kinds of discussions need to end...you're trying to move FORWARD, not stay stuck in the past!
Sounds like you're doing everything you should be doing hon...just keep reminding yourself...it takes time. Have you given any thought to picking up a new hobby? Something different to distract yourself?
okay...nurse...no more keeping this from everyone....just be honest right? yes, he is back home. at first it was few times a week...then it was on the couch overnight...and now he is back under the roof. we are not intimate like before...but he is here all the time. all of his things are not here...but he is definitely "home." no use in keeping certain things from you guys...you have been there, done that...and have been with me from the very beginning. i do want him here...and i am not going to BS you about that either. that is what my therapist said...stop BSing myself and everyone else.
as for hobbies....i am taking up crochet at this place called michaels. they have knitting as well. i think that would be good for me. i also want to get back into decorating. i always loved to take care of my home. i have pretty much let it go for the last year. there are so many little projects that can be working on. i am looking forward to that. i also want to start spending some more time with my friends. i am going to have sushi with a girlfriend of mine. i think that would be nice.
i am getting ready for the family rehab tonight. i wonder how this is going to go. we'll see.
you are right about letting that one friend go. he lives in ny and i am 3000 miles away...and my husband and him are not friends anymore....so really what is the point? he is part of the past...the ugly past that i dont need to be focusing on right now.
and nurse...you are right...the over dramatizing about pretty much everything associated with this mess. it is what it is...i only make myself feel bad when i play it up to be the worst thing in the world that i just heard about. i was getting my hair done the other day...and i proceeded to start talking about the issues in my life...and for the first time...it seemed like it was a waste of time. like it was just some kind of gossip that she really didnt care about anyway. she has her own life and her own problems. i caught myself going into all of the details and i thought...what is the point of me doing this...to just relive the past. i am still with him...and he is getting help...and yes he cheated on me....but so what. i already knew that. i know what that is all about too.
i just felt really immature in the beautician's chair after a while.
i felt like...wait a minute...i am a grown woman...40...telling everyone who will listen my business...and feeling sorry for myself...and hoping they will too. what is really interesting is that i already knew that most of the women in the shop have their own sordid tales of issues in their marriages...most likely a lot of the same issues i have...and yet, i make it like i am the only one in the world who has problems.
honestly...i felt like i was 16 years old...and shut up.
One thing i wanted to tell u...i just learned that no one in his family knows he i in rehab?? Not even his dad. I never got along with them as you know but here it is another secret. Should this be a secret?
I feel like everyone should know so that they can support him. But him and his dad have this difficult relationship. I know my husband will the he will be judged. But they already know he was doing drugs. Why not be honest and tell them he has a problem and getting help.
I also know that if they knew the truth...the extent of the issue...maybe they wouldnt think i was such a monster.
Thanks for being honest! That's not always easy to do, knowing people may have strong reactions about it. Hey, these are decisions you have to make for yourself, and if it's what felt right, then that's fine. While I'm not 100% sure howe I feel about it (just opinion wise), it's definitely more sensible than him just "coming over" to see the baby every day. If he's going to be there that much, might as well be full time, right? In that sense, I get it.
Good for you that you recognized what you were doing at the hairdresser! See, that's progress. Before, you would have been unaware and just started talking about everything. That's great.
As for his family not knowing, that IS kind of weird, I mean, after all, they know he was using. I'm just wondering if this has anything to do with the dynamics between them and you. When you guys were seperated there for a while, I'm SURE he filled their heads with a LOT of BS about you....he had to have, because he (and they) were blaming YOU for everything. Sometimes, in those situations, it's hard for the person to "undo" all of that bad mouthing without feeling like a real heel. If he told them about rehab, they may have given him a hard time, or told him he was caving into you...those kinds of things, you know? Just a suggestion..not sure why else he woukld hide that from his family, it's a GOOD thing. Wouldn't they WANT to see him get well?
If, along with bad mouthing you to them, he majorly minimized his drug use to them (which I bet he did),...he would have a hard time explaining rehab. Basically, he might be catching himself in his own lies with them if he tells them.
I think it's fair to come right out and ask him why they don't know...maybe in rehab therapy? Or marriage counselling? I would tell him that you're not comfortable with lies of any sort. Just the dishonesty adds more doubt to you...which I can't blame you for. He's supposed to be turning over a new leaf...accountability, transparency, honesty. Him keeping rehab from his whole family seems kind of significant. How about other people...does ANYONE else but YOU know about the rehab, or is he being very secretive about it? Obviously a lot of his friends already know he has a problem, do any of them know?
If he's keeping this a big secret, it would make me feel as though he wasn't being sincere about it...that he was just doing it to appease me. Hmm.
Just some more things to work through.
Please don't feel you have to keep things from us. Of course you aren't always going to get replies you may like, but they are all to help and support you. We all want nothing but total success for you guys. Just because we might not agree, doesn't mean you can't tell us, okay? In the end, no matter WHAT we say, it's YOUR life. We can't make these tough decisions for you and you have to do what you think is right. We'll always give you our opinions though, whether you want to hear them or not! LOL
I think that if he has difficult relationships with his family, and if they have never been supportive of you, that maybe they can stay on the back-burner for now. He is putting himself, and then you--his immediate family--first. Let him do that. Maybe they would be a detriment to his recovery anyway...they have been a negative force in your marriage for sure, so we don't want that negative force affecting his recovery.
Nurse has said so much that I would have said...in a much clearer way I'm sure:) but I'll say that I agree to maybe let that friend go. It will only cause problems...does Rudy know you talk to him? You have moved so far in a positive direction, and any conversations with him about the past will just keep holding you back...and it could sabotage both your own progress and Rudy's progress.
I'm glad that you have told us about him living at home...I know it is so hard...feeling like you will be judged...and there is no judgement here. I don't think it's a horrible thing that he is there...I think it was a little too early, but now we can approach things differently, knowing he is there. But because he is there, that is all the more reason for you to stop focusing on the past. If he is living with you, and going through rehab, he needs you to be a positive force in his life...especially if he is with you so much. Like you said...when you fight with him, it probably makes him want to use....he is still so new in this recovery...30+ days is great, but not enough for him to feel really stable, especially if he is still using pot. Now, about the pot....as the counselor said...he needs to free himself of ALL mind-altering substances. This is a hard one for me, because I have smoke pot before--back in the day:) Smoking pot gets you high. period. It's an escape for him. He is not learning how to deal with life WITHOUT the help of drugs yet. This is very concerning to me. YES, stopping alcohol and cocaine is amazing, and maybe he is smoking much less than he used to, but he still IS doing it. Does he have any plans to stop the pot? You say that you like the sober man during the week... did you know he was still smoking it when he moved back in? I just know that you required that he be clean to be able to even be back in your life, so I'm just wondering how you feel about it, or if there is a plan for him to stop at a certain date or what. Does he buy it illegally? Like, it's not a medical marijuana prescription or anything? I would let it play out in rehab...let his addiction counselors walk him through where, when, how, what to do next....you can ask your own questions about it at family rehab also. I think that you need to get to those family sessions at rehab. I really think that will help you understand things so much more...you need to go!
Let us know how it goes...I really think he'll feel more supported if you go, and it will open your eyes to a lot of things.
Also, as I said before, and others have said too, I do believe that everything has happened under the umbrella of his addiction... and Nurse said it perfectly--
"I think the cheating and drug use absolutely go hand and hand...and I'm sure he probably wouldn't have done it had he not been high. The thing is, that doesn't negate what he did, and doesn't make it any easier to accept."
They need to be dealt with separately, but they are definitely tied together. You BOTH need to learn about his addiction to understand why it led him to do what he did....the cheating, violence, leaving, all of it. THEN, when you have a better understanding, I think marriage counseling will be much more effective.
You are doing so well Miller... as always, I appreciate your honesty....I know how hard it is to let everything out....and it's probably twice as hard to let anything in...and you are accepting OUR honesty with an open mind.
hi you guys....i feel so much better now that i told you all the truth about him being at home. i also wanted to tell you more truth...we started sleeping together too....he is sleeping in the bed...not on the couch. yes, it is hard to be honest...but i feel as though honesty is the only way to go. i mean, why lie? to you guys? no need to. you all have been honest with me whether i liked it or not. i mean....i was so upset reading your notes to me about being the victim. i was upset with you, my mom, my therapist....and then i thought...maybe they ARE right. and you were. the truth does hurt sometimes. but i need to hear it. and i need to be called out when i am BS. i know that.
i found out that this morning he told his dad about the rehab. his dad asked us to go to vegas for the new year...and he told him that he could not go because he was in rehab 3 days a week. they go to vegas every year for the holiday. he said that his dad was happy that he was getting help. you see they have ALWAYS had a difficult relationship. his dad bailed on his mom when he was about 6. his mom had lupus and was in and out of he hospital...and my husband had to care for her...sort of like be the man of the house. him and his younger brother. his mom always talked to him about how she wanted her husband back...you see his dad ran off with another woman...the lady who he is married to now. and it devastated his mom up until her death when he was 21 years old. when his dad left....he would come into town every now and then to see him...he was very abusive...the kind of guy who would say things like calling him stupid...a punk...that kind of stuff. so he was never in his life. and then when the mother died...he tried to come back and play "daddy" but the damage was already done. from what i understand that is when he really started getting into drugs. so the relationship has been rocky ever since. it always has seemed like he never could meet his dad's expectations. he is always trying to please him...with no success. he has so much anger and resentement towards him...but yet seeks his approval and has a hard time cutting the apron strings...which has created so many issues for us.
but really....i think the issues also revolve around his addictions as well. i think that his family....including his dad KNOW the truth and no one really forced the issue...no one dealt with the real problem. he told me this morning that his dad was trying to get him into rehab last year when we all had this huge family fight. i was "in the dark " at the time...but it is all coming out now. i wonder if his dad knows about the coke though...not just the drinking but the actual cocaine use. now that i think about it...i am sure he does.
i do think that when we were separated he bad mouthed me and downplayed his problem. i know that for a fact. that is the only way he could get away with what he did. i mean, i never really got along with them...but i am sure the things he told them about me only made it worse....so that he wouldnt look so bad and so that the real issue would not be focused on...the addictions. maybe them knowing he is in rehab might explain some things to them about me.
so....i wanted to tell you about the family night. i went and it was very HARDCORE. you guys were RIGHT to encourage me to go. it is a 3 hour session broken into 2 parts. the first part is a group setting...lots of reading, and talking about postiive thinking...and sharing. the family membes got to ask questions. it was an enlightemnment for me. i could not believe the similar stories...everyone seemed like my husband. after the first session...i noticed that my husband was very upset with me. he was upset because he felt like i was talking way too much and telling al of our business. he said that he felt like i was "taking over" his rehab time. he said that this was his time, not mine..and that i was talking to everyone...and everyone was talking to me. he felt like i was trying to give him coded messages and communicate to him by "sharing" my feelings and anger to the group. and he didnt appreciate me being manipulative like that. he was angry. he said that he was nervous about me coming for this very reason...and that i made it stressful for him. he told me that he wanted to have a drink and do a line right then and there.
OMG. i didnt know what to say. this was all during the 15 minute break. it didnt go well at first you guys. and i was talking a lot...and i was mad. i didnt realize it. i mean...when people were talking, i could relate and wanted to talk to. but he said i took over the whole discussion and made it about "our problems." he wanted to leave...and i said no way. i told him that i would not do that anymore in the second session. i mean, he was pissed. i told him that this was new for me too. so then we go into the second session...different therapist...and they start with meditation...and then group talk. and then my husband did a lot of talking. and it was surreal. i kept quiet and let him talk. and i learned so much. i was facinated by what the others had to say. and my husband actually was happy that i was there so that i could listen to the other people and hear how they were like him. after the meeting he said he was so happy we stayed and that he wanted me to come next week too. he apologized for getting angry and does want me to talk. he said that he was nervous about me being there because this was his place to be brutally honest and he doesnt feel like he can really trust me with all his dirt. he says that no one judges him there and that he is alway worried that i will manipulate or judge him, or be mad about what they talk about later.
so that is how it went. very hardcore.
talk about trust issues....man, he doesnt trust me at all either.
should i be talking in the family group? i guess when i think about it i did have a lot to say...and i did find myself "communicating" to him through talking to the group. for example this one guy was talking about how he relapsed on friday from coke...how he was at work and then went to the gym and stated thinking about getting high...then he went to a bar where he knew he could score...and then he drank there...and then eventually did some lines. he said that his fiance could not control if he did it or not...that was on him. i brought her up because she found out about it and was upset. i started talking about how i find myself trying to control him using as well....i was talking about how i stopped going to certain places where they serve alcohol, stopped going to certain locations thinking he will use there...and how i hated all of his friends and how none of them were welcomed to my house becasue they all did coke...and how they all acted like they were friends to the marriage when really they werent...they just lied to me...and were actually in my garage doing cocaine with him behind my back...and that i hated all of those assholes. and how i hated every single one of them. and how i didnt know that this was all going on behind my back. everyone seemed to understand....but my husband was fuming.
he said that i was using the group to express my anger at him.
in the second session...i was quiet like i said. and a guy was talking about him being in rehab was an ultimatim given by his fiance. and how when they moved in together she learned about how bad the problem was....and how she went into his computer and found all of this information about him cheating with women on craigslist. now that was a trigger for me. him saying that...about the cheating. but i needed to hear it. and my husband was happy that i was there at hat time to hear about that part. and the discussion was about the cheating...and it was all bad. but i kept quiet because didnt want to create another problem. i knew that if i opened my mouth i would let my anger out.
funny thing is that when they were talking about that he said he was hoping i would talk.
a lot of people came up to me to say that they wished their significant other was there....and how lucky my husband was to have me there...this was during the break...my husband nodded...but he was pissed.
fortunately the rest of the evening went well...we talked about rehab and what everyone was saying all night until we fell asleep. he told me that i got a chance to see first hand what really goes on. he shared with me how he was was familiar with every bathroom up and down the street of this one city where we live....he would do coke in every bar, and restuarant bathroom. he said that the hotel conceirge was "their friend"...slip him a little money, and he will score. this is what they were all saying...just like my husband. he told me that the craving was something that was so hard to overcome. they all talked about how you have NOT get to the craving phase...then it is too late.
he said this:
"when i drink for whatever reason...i start to think about it...how good it is going to feel...that high...i keep thinking about it...and i start to think about that snort...that straw being filled with coke..and then snorting and that feeling i get...it is so good...and then i instantly start thinking about scoring...how i am going to get it, so i call my dealers....anybody...trying to get it. and once i get to that point...in craving...i have to do it. and then when i do it and drink more...then i have to do more and more...to get that high. so, i cant get to the craving...then it is too late. i have to address the issue before i get there"
when he said this....it was almost like he was saying it like it was a nice memory or something...like..."ahhhh...that was back in the good ole days." i needed to be in rehab to understand that it is okay that he thinks of it like that...it is part of the process.
yes the pot smoking is an issue that they are working on with him. i am learning that cant do anything about that. i guess i was so focused on the coke and alcohol. they know about the pot and are on him. he has cut down from spending about 200 on pot to 70. he used to do it all day, everyday. now he does it on wknds. but they know he needs to stop completely. and he does too. that is on him. i am going to let them work with him.
i am just getting used to hearing about him use that straw.......
i know i am writing a lot...i have a lot to say today...
you know, in the meeting last night no one....no one..."looked" like what i thought an addict would look like. everyone in there was like everyone else you would see everyday. i stereotyped what a drug addict would look like..and i was so wrong. there was a teacher in there...people who worked for the school district...a preschool teacher....a writer...a wall street rich guy.....a beautiful woman who was also rich and did coke while she was pregnant...and lost custody....she got pregnant by a married man.....a business owner...mostly everyone had a job...a good one...and did not "look" like they were on drugs or alcohol. it was a feisty group as well....lots of emotions...lots of people calling the other person out....lots of opinions....a very lively group. you cant BS there...because everyone knows the deal. even the therapist who lead the group is a recovering coke/meth addict.
i found some parts to be kind of eerie....like some things that i thought were horrible...they laughed...like they "all knew" what that was about. like they all shared and understood the same dark humor...including my husband. like when the one wall street guy was talking about how he "knew every bathroom up and down 5th avenue"....they all laughed and my husband shouted out...i know what you mean mean." and how when my husband said..."how he hated coming in here tonight...how this was the last place he wanted to be. where is the fun anymore?" they all said...."that's right brother! you know exactly what i was thinking!" they all agreed with what my husband said. i was confused because i thouhgt.."why wouldnt you want to be here? to get well." and when i asked about that...the therapist explained to me that no one wanted to be there...that even though you would think that they woudl want to be there to get their lives together....it is a difficult path. everyone agreed with him in unison.
he said that no matter if the patients are angry about going, in a bad mood...complained...the only thing that matters is that they are there. he told me it was important that i understood that...and so did the rest of the group.
it was also interesting to hear about how some of the people seemed to be in denial...like they didnt think their problem was that bad. my husband acts like that too sometimes. and then when the therapist would ask how their lives were negatively impacted by using...they all agreed....and could see that the using was in fact a problem.
my point here is that there is no way a person can stop on their own. my husband NEEDS to be in rehab, no matter what. he thinks just like they do. one minute the problem is not as bad...the next minute...after talking and listening to everyone in the group, he nods his head, and can completey relate to what they are saying...and then add his own story.
one guy who has been sober for 6 months pulled me aside and told me that my husband has an angry monster in his mind that does not want to leave. he said that when my husband is acting strange...that it is the addiction talking. that i have to be strong. and that coming was a good thing. he said my husband will be angry and mad....becasue i am there...it is okay....but keep coming. he said that it will take at least another 4 months before the angry monster calms down. he told me the same thing happend with his wife.
I am glad that you went...it has opened your eyes. And again, thank you for being honest--it really helps us to help you if we know everything...and if we don't know everything, we may give you advice that is not appropriate. Lesa said something very profound..."It's not your story to tell". At rehab, I think she's right. I think you are there to observe and learn...and you said that family members can ask questions. I think that's where you made an error--instead of asking a question and allowing someone, or your husband, to answer it, you commented on someone's story, and then in a way, turned the attention onto yourself. I don't think you did that purposely, but it is part of what you are working on....not telling your story, not playing victim, etc, and you lapsed when you spoke at rehab. I'm trying to explain it best I can, and please don't think I'm being mean or anything. That place is your husband's rehab, not yours. The purpose of going to the family meeting is for you to observe and learn so you can help him and support him...you need to get help and support for yourself elsewhere, and you need to keep the focus on him when you are there. If HE chooses to open up about the things that you openly spoke about in the meeting, then HE needs to do it. YOU can do it at your therapist, marriage counseling, home, HERE, but not at HIS rehab....do you see what I'm saying? I don't know how they structure the meetings...you said the first half was a group setting, but the second half was also? What is the second half supposed to focus on? Going to the meetings will help you understand....I think you are already beginning to understand more about his addiction after just one night, but there is SO MUCH MORE to learn, and to process so you understand addiction on the level you need to understand it.
His childhood/relationship with his father really could have led him towards his path of addiction. Having a parent leave you is devastating...and he has fought not to leave his own son, with memories of his own father leaving him.
You said above: "i do think that when we were separated he bad mouthed me and downplayed his problem. i know that for a fact." --- he probably did...but he was controlled by his addiction. Hopefully you will conyinue to learn about the beast of addiction....the monster, as the other patient called it. It changes a person into a totally different person...it makes the drug the only important thing, and it helps to destroy everything that stands in the way of the drugs. You can't focus on the fact that maybe he badmouthed you...it's another thing that shouldn't be focused on. Move on from it. The relationship with his family can be worked on when the time is right...when it's right for him in his recovery. He still has many other things to work on before tackling that. And the relationship between his family and you should be dealt with much later...after his recovery is well under way, and after your marriage is in a much stronger place. It's great that he has told them about rehab, but it's probably good for him to keep them at arm's length for now. If he decides to involve them further, cross that bridge when he brings it up...and even then, involving them in his recovery is completely separate from mending their relationship with you.
You are moving in the right direction...you are learning more every day. This is not easy stuff...it takes a long time to really get some of this stuff, and you are putting a lot of effort into it. You have come a long way, and I truly admire you for taking everyone's criticism and applying it...it's really impressive.
Hi Miller, glad to hear you're onto the family meetings now, and Alanon will help immeasurably too. It's wonderful to hear you're taking these additional steps to heal. HEY, stop trying to be so perfect will you? Addiction is a family disease honey, you weren't privy to the first meetings that Rudy and the other addicts, and wive's were at. Your "first" meeting went well. Please love yourself enough, and let other people show you unconditional love, YOU DON"T HAVE TO BE PERFECT sweetie, it's one day at a time. We learn and we progress only from being authentic. You are very brave, and incredibly caring to put yourself in the position of allowing yourself to be vulnerable and learn and grow in this process. Opening up here and telling us that Rudy and you are back together in every way is brave, and you've opened yourself up and are vulnerable. That's what other people see, that you care enough about your husband to be vulnerable and open yourself up to the "program" of this family disease. You should be very proud of yourself honey, and not get stuck on having to be so perfect, out of the gate. This is hard core, you're right, if it was easy there'd be no active addiction, and we know that's not the case. You are my hero, from day one, and as you go through this learning process, and open yourself up to the process, you continue to be my hero. YOU DON"T HAVE TO BE PERFECT, BELIEVE ME, NOBODY IS IN THIS GAME. One day at a time, Miller. Give as much attention to the bright side of your involvement, and Rudy's. With time, the positive's will outweigh the negatives. One day, those same addicts, given time and sobriety will be saying something entirely different. They will be saying that they "Thank God, that they're clean and sober!!" They "Can't believe that they wasted so much time doing drugs, now that they've found sobriety" Right? New clean and sober memories will replace the old ones. New clean and sober friends, will replace the old ones. You've read the stories of long term sobriety on Medhelp. You know where this new sobriety can head for many of those that you're sitting and talking to on Family day. Realize that you're on a learning curve, and time will give you both more confidence and trust. Keep it simple and remember what the therapist says, take notes, "..The only thing that matters is that they (you) are there"
This is all new to you, hon. You'll get it, you'll figure out what is standard and expected. Really, the therapist could have done a better job managing the group, too. If you went off on a little tangent that was not real appropriate, she could have easily redirected the convo. You're still very much stuck in that wanting to tell all mode...that will take some time.
Don't be too hard on yourself. Next time you and your hubby discuss this (if you do), just say that you're learning, and that you recognize that you may have gone a little overboard.
This is all unchartered territory for you. The fact that you are able to accept constructive criticism is wonderful. You're open minded, and the most important thing is, you're trying like hell. It will get easier to navigate through some of this stuff once you've experienced more of it.
Hello Miller. Thank you for being so Gracious. I appreciate this and Respect you. I will explain what I mean by being direct.. When we go to these meetings and expose our story's they were not meant to be shared with who ever will listen.. even thou we are on the internet, 1 could recognize themselves and if not it is disrespectful. I can understand you speaking of your feeling on what goes on in group but not in so much detail as to betray those that trusted to open up to you.. Your husbands story is very heartbreaking imagining him as a lil boy trying to care for his ailing mom/family. This was not your story to tell to so many. I can understand speaking to 1 our 2 in Private that support you our your therapist but you just tell it all to whoever will listen is disturbing. There is a way to say things without giving all the gruesome details.. If I heard my husband telling my story I would be hurt and angry.. as for the guy you speak of who is no longer your husbands friend.. but yet you continue to speak to him to allow him to bad mouth your husband. I can understand the release this all has for you but I do not see it as healthy. a Negative does not make a Positive.. My husband has had affairs I'm a addict we have been together for over 30 years. part of any relationship even when trust is broken is a under lying need desire to preserve your marriage and your partners dignity.. It is hard to gain this when it is always being ripped away... I know you are hurt I know you are new to all this but you have known for a long time things were not right and you have allowed a lot of things to continue. He is facing his role in all this I truly hope you see yours... You are a kind intelligent and warm person.. I'm sure you have been lonely also as a new mom and a survivor of his infidelity.. You need to focus on you Fill your life with Positive for yourself as he is doing with his meetings so that You also grow and learn as he does.. I do not have to hide anything I write from my husband. Yes I can write the truth as I have said he has had affairs but I would never write something that would ultimately betray something he intrusted to me about his past.. that is his story to tell Just as the recovering addicts in the meetings.. Those are their story's to tell.. I hope you continue to tell yours so others coming behind you have a Good example of how to cope. As everyone has said you Really are doing very well You should be Proud of your Courage.. I'm.. I wish you both the very best. lesa
lesa....thank you for the follow up note. i welcome your honest comments. they mean a lot. believe me...no one knows i post here...no one. i share all of the gruesome details here becasue i need to be completely honest and make sure that my friends here know the whole truth...not just part of the story. i will take your advice on how to behave in the group sessions in rehab. i think you are right. i already have a better understanding of how i will behave when i go back next week.
i am so glad that you shared that your husband had affairs. and that you both are still together...I NEEDED to hear that today.
A possible point that is being misunderstood.....at rehab group meetings, in a 12 step meeting or other group setting the "understood" courtesy of others is this, "what you hear here.......let it STAY here".
What is shared in your counseling sessions alone or with your husband would be totally different. The other people sitting around the table or room don't want their personal experiences and struggles shared ANYWHERE public. This forum is public. Even if no one KNOWS about your participation here, I recently found out if you google your "sign on" membership name, your posts are there for anyone to read at anytime anywhere.
It is necessary to share with MH friends in some detail, but to share the explicit details of another person's personal life on a public forum without their knowledge is hurtful to THEM. Even with your hubby, some details may be necessary, but certainly not ALL of them.
One of the precious things about 12 step programs and group rehab situations is the safety you learn to feel with the others in the room. Course 12 step mtgs ARE anonymous for a reason and rehab groups also are expected to be kept private. It is very hard to share openly with others in a group setting especially when you are raw and learning about the destruction of addiction. It takes a lot of courage and trust to open your heart and your mouth. And when you finally do, the last thing that needs to happen to you is to find out somebody's wife or husband is talking about your business with others. Even your hubby needs to gradually feel safe about revealing his issues as a particular layer of his onion is peeled away. Otherwise, the surrender and trust that is so new and precious can be blasted away.
hi there...thanks for checking in. i am doing pretty good. rudy is back home and we are both really trying. he is in rehab, we are in marriage counseling....and i am in my own therapy....all of this every week!
almost 50 days sober. this is the first New Years with no alcohol....pretty much ever since i have known my husband. and it is going really good. actually the whole holidays have been nice and quiet. all of you were right...one day at a time.
i find that if i just focus on the future and present....i feel much better. when i start to think about the ugly past...i get sad...so i am really trying not to do that. it is hard at times...but you know...i am TIRED of being sad all the time about thngs i cant do anything about. you know? my husband cheated on me...hell....he has been on drugs for 17 years...he acted a fool this past summer...okay...now what. we are working on our marriage trying to save it. what more can i/we do? just keep moving forward...that is all. and i am ready to do that. i am ready to take the advice given to me here...and in my therapy..and of course from my mom...and move ahead...in truth.
and i thank GOD that i know the truth now.
the truth about my husband, the truth about the cheating, the truth about my co dependency/manipulation, and the truth about the serious issues in my marriage that need to be addressed.
if we make it through this mess...we certainly will have a testimony.
What a lovely post. You guys sure are giving this your all....that shows that both of you really have that committment to the relationship/family. That's great, and will go a long way in helping heal everyone.
I'm glad you had a quiet holiday..that's my favorite kind!! I'm sure the little guy got spoiled rotten, huh? ;0)
Happy New Year to you, hon. May this year bring you peace and a new and improved marriage and family.
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