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Mom to a 23 year old heroin addict needs advice
I'm so glad I found this forum, I've been lurking for a couple weeks now and have learned a lot.  When my daughter was a senior in college, I caught her snorting pain pills.  We had a heart to heart and she said she was a casual user and could just plain stop.  Over the next few days I did notice she was nauseous, etc. but being niave I believed her when she said she was just sick.  How I wish I could redo that time period.  I should have known anyone who snorts anything is not a casual user and we should have gotten professional help.  She appeared to be fine for a couple more months, getting a great job and passing a licensing exam that took 7 hours to do, to show you how involved it was.  One day she came home and said her boyfriend moved to Colorado and she's moving too.  Within a week she had quit her job and was gone.  She drove cross country from the east coast in 2 days, only stopping for 5 hours sleep once.  To make a long story shorter, we have noticed weird things that she said that didn't make sense and couldn't figure out why.  Then, she started getting a new phone number every few days, saying she broke her phone, lost her phone, etc., etc.  Had 2 accidents in her car, totaling the first one.  We found out later, that the insurance money from the first car we had bought for her as a graduation present did not go toward the new car.  Only a small portion was used as a down payment and she financed the rest.  She disappeared and we could not get in touch with her for a couple days, so we hunted down her boyfriend whom she was supposedly living with.  He informed us she was doing heroin and not staying there right now because he and their roommates didn't want her in the apartment doing it.  Through all this she has held her job she got when she moved out there.  I don't know how she's managed to do it, but she's still working.  She won't give us her address and will only tell lies about what she's doing.

According to her, she's living in a house with her NA sponsor who takes her paychecks and only gives her enough for necessities and decreasing amounts to purchase heroin and she's supposedly weaning herself off.  She claims to be doing half of what she was previously.  My common sense tells me no NA sponsor will help her buy drugs, even to wean herself off but my heart wants to believe her.  This is how its been, constant lies and deceit.   She's a world class liar and I don't know where to turn.  I can't check on her in person often because she lives across the country from us.  My husband and I flew out there a month ago and sensed something wasn't right but couldn't figure it out.  If we fly out there again there's no guarantee she will be honest with me or even meet with us!  She said she would love another visit but...  We have constantly offered her rehab, therapy and a few days ago, I purchased all the supplements involved in doing the amino acid protocol for w/d and mailed them to her.  Normally she will only "speak" to me by text but this time I actually got to talk to her and I asked her if she wanted me to do that and she said yes.  She even asked me if taurine was part of the recipe because she had heard it really helps.  I took that as a positive sign, at least she's either talking or researching the possibilities but now I'm starting to believe again it was just a lie to put me off longer.

Through all this, we have been paying the rent on her apartment with her boyfriend, thinking if/when she cleans up she will at least have somewhere to go.  We have helped her pay for a few crisis situations that she has created for herself, like expired tags, etc.  She has been leading us along and putting us off, so we were trying to help her.  Now we've realized we are just freeing up her paycheck for her to go buy more drugs and I've texted her we are done providing money for her to buy drugs.  I also said we love her too much to be responsible for providing the drugs that are killing her.

I am at my wits end and can't stop crying.  Her dad and I want to help her so much but don't know if there's anything we can even do at this point.  Please help us think this out and provide us with some sort of direction we need to go in, if there's anything we can do at all.  Also sad is that we have 2 other grown children who are very well adjusted and are home for Thanksgiving and this is ruining our time with them too.  Thank you so much for listening, so much for making the story shorter :-(
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Haven't been on here in a few days because I've been trying to "get a life".  I've been trying to focus on my other 2 grown children.  I'm also limiting my internet because its too tempting to constantly check emails and messages and her bank acccount to try and see what's going on.  Its so hard and I'm not being very successful.

The latest is that she has relapsed, hard.  Her "good" boyfriend whom she has left found out she's not doing suboxone, she's doing methadone and adding heroin to it.  The only thing we have been doing by paying for her treatment is reducing the amount she pays to get drugs.  We have since stopped paying for treatment and she has moved out of her apartment and in with her drug dealer again who is controlling and mean.  He is texting me from her phone and pretending to be her, asking for things, my credit card info. and her checking account and routine numbers, etc., etc.  I may have been in denial till now, but I'm not stupid.  I was trying to talk to her by voice this weekend and he took the phone from her, trying to tell me that we were horrible parents and we are why she ended up like this... I handed the phone to my husband and they he totally let loose on the dealer.  Since then we haven't had as many guilt trips and begging texts...  She had a tire shred on her car and now cannot make it to work.  We refuse to pay for a new one.  After that there will just be something else, and on and on...  What good is a job anyway when your dealer takes it ALL the day you get it and none of your bills get paid?  Its a matter of time till that car gets reposessed, they are probably looking for her right now.  Wouldn't she love if we bought her tires and when they came to reposess the car we might bail her out of that because we just bought the new tires and didn't want to lose that...  I'm so sick of being scammed and so very sad right now, trying to have a Christmas while she's so helpless and sick.  I know its not within my control and we have to remain strong but I'm not very good at it yet.  I've been physically sick for over a week now from the stress.

My husband has a high school friend who is a cop near where she lives.  It is a high intensity drug area and he is permanently stationed at a high school, making busts and trying to stop teen prostitution for drugs.  Its so bad there every county has a drug task force...  He also said what you all say, cut the money off, it isn't helping her, its providing drugs to her and if she doesn't hit bottom she can't and won't help herself.  He did say that if she were suicidal we could possibly make a case to take custody of her and have her flown home for mental treatment but it is very tricky to actually accomplish that since she's not a minor.  Even then, if she doesn't want to get better we will pay for that treatment and she might just come out and do the whole thing all over again.

I'm trying not to allow myself to obsess as much and keep busy during the day but when I lie down in bed to sleep, my mind starts racing and won't stop.  I just can't seem to control it.  I am going to find meetings to go to after the holidays, right now my other 2 are home and I'm not going to start till they leave.  It isn't fair to them or us to let her poor choices ruin our family time.  I have hesitated going to meetings because every time I think about her situation I just start sobbing and I don't even know if I could even get anything out of the meetings while so upset. Thank you all for checking on me, I wish I had better news.

Jane
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1530493 tn?1410060236
don't know what to say....there really are no words.
Your moving through the "process"...you have much behind you, your starting to see the situation with different eyes...to bad the heart can't follow just yet...
Time heals ....my heart breaks with yours. Hold tight my friend.....were not alone
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82861 tn?1333457511
(hugs)  Bad as the truth of your daughter's situation sounds, it may be a blessing in disguise.  This may be the beginning of her rock bottom.  Only time will tell but I pray that her life will become so awful that she'll realize the only way out is recovery.

It sounds like you have also reached your own rock bottom.  I know it sounds weird, but that's a good thing!  The only way to go from here is up. Don't worry about speaking in meetings.  It's not a requirement and you can listen only without actively participating until you're ready.

Do your other children know what is going on with their sister?  I'm concerned that the dealer may try to get money out of them since she's cut off from your bank account.  For that reason alone they need to know exactly what's going on.  If ever there was a time for the family to pull together, it's now.  After all, isn't this the season that we're supposed to make an extra effort to love and support our fellow man?  That philosophy should apply to family members first and foremost.

You're all in a crisis situation so don't let secrets make it worse.  Telling the truth and talking about it can be a very liberating and healing experience.  Get past the family meeting, have a good long cry and then turn toward having an enjoyable time with your family.  :-)
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495284 tn?1333897642
It's okay to go to those meetings and just cry.  You dont have to say all the right things, you dont even have to say anything.

Believe it or not, you are making progress.  You are starting to stand your ground and trust me your daughter is noticing.  I know she doesnt like it but it makes us think.  We speak of hitting rock bottom, that is after we go thru all the trap doors also.  She is there now.  As addicts we find ourselves flat on our back and the only way to go is up.  I hope and pray that is soon for her.  I know where she is, i know the feelings, i know the insanity, i know the hopelessness and i also know the first time we stand on our own 2 feet.  It is scary as he!! and it feels like the world is eating us alive but that flicker of hope keeps us going.  The most important thing is when we turn to our families they need to be healthy~~

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Her siblings do know exactly what's going on.  I wouldn't keep it from them.  She has a twin sister and a brother who is 4 years older.  Both well adjusted normal young adults.  They haven't been asked for money because she knows they would say no.  She has never been close to her siblings, for some reason she always felt insecure around them.  I hope you all are right and this might be bottom...  I don't really have any hope of things getting better at this point though.

Jane
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495284 tn?1333897642
I'm sure you dont have much hope at this point as reality is rearing its ugly head right now.  The not being close to her siblings comes from her own lack of self worth.  I lived that for many MANY years with my brother.  Always thought he was the golden child.  It was my problem and one i had to come to terms with.  I know i spend time writing about your daughter when this is about you but i am hoping that you will understand more of where she is at and why and that you are not to blame.
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Sara~

OMG, she calls her brother and sister "golden children".  She actually uses those words!  That is the weirdest coincidence I could have ever imagined.  She has always had poor self esteem and I feel like she doesn't think she deserves a good life.  She mentioned to her boyfriend (the good one) that she isn't good enough for him.  Then she had the relapse.

I'm glad you write about my daughter, it helps me to see where she's coming from and that insight is important. The more I understand what she's going through and why things happened the less time I spend beating myself up.  Thank you Sara.

Jane
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495284 tn?1333897642
When we talk about the "golden children" that is really what we think.  We do think we are lesser than they are and we go into a victim role, the poor me role etc.  By this time we become very defiant in our thinking and drugs make us feel good, we found something that loves us, so we think and our love affair is off and running.  Our drugs take the place of everything and everybody.  We use anyone and anything to get what we need.  We beg borrow and steal.  Feeding our addiction becomes a daily goal and our only goal.  After awhile we chase that high that rarely comes anymore.  Our lives are in ruins, the pain of losing so much comes thru so we try to get high again to numb those feelings.  Emotions are foreign to us, uncomfortable and terribly painful.  We look at other people and wonder how the he!! they can smile or laugh or just live day to day not being messed up.  We really do feel we deserve to be living this way.  It is a roller coaster ride in hell, we dance with the devil and he becomes our lover.  This is just a glimpse into the world of an addict.  Everything we do is by our own choice, noone else.  
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Hi jane,reading your post makes me realize what i put my own parents through, especiallly my dad,because i lived with my dad through 5 years of my addiction.It drove my dad crazy he knew all my dealers numbers where i scored from etc.. he was even trying to get a gun to shoot them all!!Thankfully he never did.The way he coped was to emotionally cut ties with me he sort of stopped caring,it helped at the time for me to know this to make me realize what i had become.take care.Chris
P.S Thank you for your kind words.If some good can come from all the bad times and this is it that gives me some peace.
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1530493 tn?1410060236
Sara...powerful words...made me cry.  Your an amazing woman.

rizboy...we Never give up on our children...our love and emotions can not be cut....we only go numb.  A Son...Your father should be proud...what a caring man you are.

Jane....Hugs and Holding YOU Tight
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Chris, It really helps to hear what you said about your Dad.  It gives me a glimmer of hope that maybe one day she will realize why we had to cut her off.  She doesn't seem to be blaming us but I know that's because she's hiding it, thinking she might be successful getting something if she plays on my guilt instead of getting angry.  I think from her side its a game, testing us and trying to find a way to grab us and suck us in so we enable her yet again.  You are doing good work here, Chris, helping people and its good to see that reading this thread has helped you understand your Dad better.  Deb is so right, my numbness is starting to develop too.  I've cried more in the past few weeks than in my entire life prior to that.  It can't continue to go like this for me...

Sara, your insight is so powerful.  It is helping me when I talk to her to try and say things that impact her.  Knowing where she's coming from is really making me "target" my words to her feelings better.  I know nothing I can say will make her get clean, it has to be her, but I do want her to know that I understand her as much as I can.  

She texted me yesterday saying without new tires her life is pretty much ruined.  She can't get to work or treatment, etc., etc.  I texted her back to call me.  I'm not doing this texting thing anymore.    Its obviously uncomfortable to talk to me and that's why she does it by text...I'm going to respond from now on that if she wants to talk to me, call.  I told her giving her new tires will just be a band-aid on a much, much larger problem.  She will work, get a paycheck and spend it on drugs.  Her bills won't be paid still and she will be driving her drug dealer around in that car.  We are not doing it.  We offered her rehab again.  Not outpatient, she is beyond that.  She needs inpatient intensive help in another state.  Not here in her home state or where she is now either.  She knows people who can provide her with drugs when she gets out.  She needs a fresh start, beginning with inpatient rehab.  She was crying and not responding to me, so her older brother took the phone and spoke to her.  Although she feels inferior to him, she respects her brother and if she would listen to anyone I feel like he had a good chance of talking some sense into her.  He asked her to tell him one reason why she doesn't want rehab and she had no answer.  She agreed to go and then started crying, saying she would call back in a couple minutes when she got ahold of herself.  We started researching facilities and in a few minutes, "she" texted me and said she needs tires and won't go to rehab somewhere else, she loves it there.  All that for nothing.  In the meantime I'm sure the dealer talked her out of it and he probably was the one who wrote the text back.  I only answered with, if you want to speak to me, call.

I keep telling myself that her getting help isn't within my control but still underneath am trying to find some sort of "hook" to grab her with.  It is starting to sink in though.  Just the fact that she said she still loves it out there even though she has nothing left, including friends, boyfriend, money, etc., etc. hit me hard and told me she isn't ready no matter what I say or do.

I did tell her she looks AWFUL, like she's aged 10 years in the last 3 months.  She said she didn't think so and I told her I am scanning 2 photos of her side by side and emailing them to her.  I want her to SEE what she's doing to herself.  She actually said she wanted me to do that.  

Well, the family is starting to wake up and I'm going to get off the computer and start my day, trying to put her out of my mind and give the rest of the family some pleasant memories of this Christmas.  Thank you, friends.
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hi all,ive just been re-reading your posts and its made me cry WOW!! the problem with addiction is it makes you selfish,its like your a slave thats being violated inside out,its only when you come throught the other side you realized all the hurt and pain you have caused.You are all amazing people i need you to know that.I know you have tried this but ,when you see your son/daughter tell them again what they are doing to you,scream at them, shout at them ,cry at them,then cut them off.It may not have instant effects but keep driving home what they have done to you.Debs..thankyou your to kind.all the best everyone.AND LOOK AFTER YOURSELVES. Chris
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82861 tn?1333457511
Stick to your guns!  You are handling this crisis in a way that many people can't and I for one am very proud of you.  Sounds like you have lots of support from your hubs and the other kids too and that is priceless.  :-)
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1530493 tn?1410060236
I....#2...VERY proud of you, Jane !!!  How can this Not Change...I hope you... can See the mother your daughter has.  As tough as this is....your doing all the right things....right from the beginning
You Jane... give me strength.....
Chris...Your above post ALSO made me cry.  This thread...pretty emotional.  Makes my heart warm....there ARE still Great people, in this world...made very clear, by this entire thread :)
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Thanks everyone for the continuing support.  I don't know what I would do without you!  You have all contributed so much to my surviving this crisis and maybe some day to my daughter's recovery.  

I got 2 texts from her yesterday, one telling me not to answer calls or texts from her phone this weekend (her dealer monitors her phone and pretends to be her) I answered that by asking if I'm going to be able to talk to her at some point and she said "yes, just listen to what I just texted you".  Well that means I'm not going to be able to talk to her this weekend since I'm not "allowed" to answer.  

I must say, I'm not crying quite as much now, I'm starting to get angry on and off.  I know she is sick but she created this situation herself and the way she's trying to use us and lie to us is starting to get to me and change my attitude.  Is it normal to feel this way or is this just the first step of giving up on her?  I can't imagine ever giving up on her but my change in attitude I couldn't have predicted a few days ago either...  

Its just so cruel, all the love we've given her, putting her through college, buying her a car as a graduation gift, its all wasted.  It isn't only gone, but it was used to destroy her and us.

So I know that even if the phone rings on Christmas it isn't going to be her.  How is that supposed to make us feel?  Well, here come the tears again.  Ugh.

Jane
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1416133 tn?1351126817
Jane I'm so sorry you're going through all of this.  This is heartbreakting.

I just wanted to offer a bit of support as I have a sister who is still in full blown addiction (alcohol, cocaine, other things too I'm sure) and she uses guilt on me all the time.  All I can tell you is you are NOT to blame.  Neither was I but they feed on that guilt and use it to find a way back into your lives, only to use you and leave you again.  I'm done allowing my sister to do that to me and I'm relieved to hear you say you're angry.  You should be.  This is something only she can decide for herself.  This kind of behavior is manipulative and cruel.  Stick to your guns here and offer help only in the form of rehab.  Tell her you will no longer be a part of the problem, only the solution.  And the rest is up to her.

My prayers are with you and your family.  I hope you're able to find some good moments during this holiday season.  Because you deserve it.  :)
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495284 tn?1333897642
I am actually glad you are feeling some anger now.  You have every right to feel that way, it doesnt mean you dont love her, it just means you are going to start loving yourself.  Check out the grief process, this is something you are going thru now.  Dont give her the power to destroy anything else in your life now.  Take your power back.  She didnt set out to do this to you or herself on purpose.  It is the nature of the beast.  You wont give up on her, you just wont be participating in her active addiction.  We are masters of the game and everyone else is our pawn.  You cant compete with an addict.  

My wish for you is to find some peace during the holidays, light a candle for your daughter, we always look for the light at the end of the tunnel~~sara
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I feel so empty.  So hopeless.  Like she's already gone permanently.  There's nothing anyone can do.  She's not the person I know anymore and never will be again.

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1416133 tn?1351126817
Actually you don't know that for sure sadmom - if she finds her way out and decides, for herself, that she no longer wants to live like this, there is hope that she can return to her former self.  Never lose that hope okay?  I think all we're saying now is to make sure you take care of YOU too right now and get the support you need.  That doesn't mean giving up on her - it only means making sure you are well so when she does return to you, you'll be healthy, strong and able to help.  Please don't let yourself go there right now - things could change if she decides that for herself.

And I'm with sara - light a candle, say a prayer for her and you and the rest of your family.  And continue to support her on her recovery - and not her addiction.
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495284 tn?1333897642
I know it feels hopeless but it isnt.  Underneath all of the pain both of you are living and feeling she is still your girl.  Addicts are kind loving caring people. Our behavior while in active addiction covers that up.  Get out and get some fresh air, say a prayer and keep that candle lit~~
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Jane - I have spent some time reading through this thread and my heart and prayers go out to you and your family.  My 22 year old daughter was addicted to methadone and has just recently went through detox and is now 16 days clean and sober.  It is so hard as a parent to watch your child suffer and feel so helpless.  The people on this site helped me through the hard times and gave me good advice about what to expect and the support and courage to make it day by day.  The fear, guilt, loss and concern doesn't go away but it can be managed.  You are a great Mom and have a very supportive family.  You are also an inspiration for those of us who find ourself in a similiar situation.  The one thing I have learned from this site is that addicts have a pattern and their actions are driven not out of love or concern for who they hurt but for their desire and need for the drug.  One of my favorite quotes to help me keep things in perspective is "When you make a mistake, don't look back at it long. Take the reason of the thing into your mind, and then look forward. Mistakes are lessons of wisdom. The past cannot be changed. The future is yet in your power."  Please continue to stay strong and know that there are many people praying for your daughter, you and your family. Merry Christmas and I hope your new year is filled with much joy and happiness.  Jeff
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82861 tn?1333457511
Ditto what Domino said!  Anger is a normal, healthy emotion for you to feel right now and it's entirely appropriate.  Nobody wants to have their trust abused or their gifts flushed down the toilet.  See, you're looking at the big picture of her life and right now she can't see it.  It's just too darn scary.  Try not to confuse "giving up on her" with detachment.  You can detach yourself from the insanity of your daughter's addiction while still standing ready to support her recovery when she's ready to do it.  

Really, you're doing a great job of establishing boundaries and sticking to them.  She's going to guilt trip you every step of the way but I think you're wise to the fact that it's only a form of manipulation to get you back to supporting her addiction like a "good", guilt-ridden parent.  

After a lifetime of drug and alcohol addiction, my husband has about 7 months sober time under his belt.  In the beginning, I had it in my mind that life would one day go back to normal.  Well, shoot - it's never BEEN normal! Why it took me over 20 years to see that little truth is beyond me.  I was just as much in denial in my way as he was.  

Life is so completely different from anything I imagined now that he's sober.  He's an entirely different person and I'm greatly enjoying getting to know him.  He is also discovering things about himself and exploring an etirely different lifestyle that he truly enjoys.  There is a peace in sobriety that he never had while trying to find it in a pill or a bottle.

The reason I share this with you now is so that you don't spend too much time looking for the daughter you thought you had and wishing for her return because that's not the person you want.  There were likely problems going on in her life that you never knew about even before she picked up the first time.  Those are the things she'll have to face honestly  when the drugs won't cover it up anymore.  That along with the harm she's already done to herself and others during her active addiction.  When she's ready to do what needs to be done, you'll see a person you haven't known before.  In fact, she's in there now.  She's just horribly scared and not ready to come out yet.

I hope you've managed to enjoy some quality time with the rest of your family this Christmas.  Staying busy and distracting yourself is a good thing.  Don't forget to count the blessings you surely have in your life right now.  All is not lost.  :-)
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1416133 tn?1351126817
How you doing Jane?
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Thanks for the responses.  I've managed to make it through Christmas although I feel like I've been physically beaten up from all the stress.  I have managed to control my emotions this week, except when alone, like now.  I didn't want to ruin Christmas for the others because of mourning for the daughter I thought I had and now don't.  She didn't even call on Christmas.  I'm sure this is just another manipulation.  The money stopped, so now she's punishing us and trying to place even MORE guilt.  I'm incredibly sad, but her not calling is reinforcing the fact that we did the right thing cutting off the enabling.  Its forcing her to be honest.  The fake "love" she says she has for us is done.  Maybe if/when we hear from her next she will be sincere.

My son left after his week home from Atlanta and other daughter is still here for the rest of the week.  I am planning to get out of the house as much as possible and keeping busy.  Thanks for being there for me.

Jane
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I wish I had some good news, Jane. Im a recovered addict with 17 years clean. I stopped when I was 27 and had lost just about everything. My son was 5 then and for years I preached to him about the evils of drugs and did everything I could to insulate him from it. Yet he started smoking pot at 12, pills shortly thereafter, and has been a herion addict for several years now. He's 21. After several counslers, rehabs, jail stints, and thousands of dollars the only thing he's shown is that he's become a better liar and criminal.I love him with all my heart but both his mom and myself have put him out of our homes. He's broken probation and will be going to prison for 10 years when they pick him up. In good conscience I have to turn him in if I find out where he is. He'll commit burglaries and deal heroin to supply his own habit, and that could cost someone else their life. If I dont help the police pick him up; I'm partially responsible for the damage he does. There comes a point where we have to realize that helping them is not within our power, and walking away means we're letting them loose on innocent people. My son does not love me now because he isnt capable of love. Maybe someday he will again. Right now he is a threat to society and my job as his dad is to do what I can to prevent him from burglarizing, robbing, or supplying this drug to others. I pick up the local paper and see these young kids dead of a heroin overdose and I cant help but wonder if they got it from my son. My best advice is to take care of yourself and enjoy time with your other kids. As for your daughter and my son, it's between them and God to make the decision to change.   Pat
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Pat,

I'm so sorry to hear about your son's problems.  It must be so hard to be caught between your flesh and blood and his crimes.  I've never been in your position, obviously, but understand fully what you are saying.  At some point he went from being family to someone who is dangerous.  I'm really hoping we don't get to that point but know it is a possibility.  I could possibly see myself turning her in if it came to that.  I can't say for sure because I'm not in that position yet.  I've already called the police twice when she went missing and told them EVERYTHING, about the drugs and everything about who I think she's living with.  Unfortunately I don't have an address, only an area where she might be.  This guy is nothing but trouble but I can't blame him totally, she chooses to live there.

You are a strong person, Pat and I'm glad you wrote me.  Your successful recovery means something to me, it gives me some hope.  At least some of the time things turn out ok.

She wrote me an email from work this afternoon saying she wanted to call on her way to work but left her phone at home and hopes we had a merry christmas.  Yeah right, she won't call from "home" and she left her phone (we bought it for her because she pawned the old one and we wanted to stay in touch) with her drug dealer boyfriend because that's more important than calling her family.  :-/  That phone was and will be the last thing we bought her.

Jane

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1235186 tn?1339127464
hi everyone. i am trying to make a healthy detachment from my daughter.
i love her so much but her actions are speaking louder than her words.  she has broken 2 phones in the last month. she said she drops them i know she or her bf throw them when they fight. i had told her one month ago i would buy her one for christmas.
last sunday, ten days ago she stole money from my purse and also jewelry, she quit her job. we told her she wasnt welcome to live here anymore. i thought she had been doing better, i was again fooled.
she went to her bf to live at the mothers. she asked if she could stay on christmas eve. we allowed it.  i didnt get her a new phone. she was mad. could you believe it. she stole from us, quit her job and got mad i didnt buy her a new phone. yea, i am such a bad mother.
she isnt listening to reason and she is so unreasonable telling me she could be worse. she is justifying her use and saying she doesnt use everyday. bravo. yes she could be worse but could also be much better.

i have been so distraught. my 2 youngest are 12 and 14 i am being unfair to them. i am letting too much of my emotions,energy and time focusing on my daughter. i have been moment by moment letting go and letting GOD. i have to. i am going crazy. i am so considering going away by myself for a week. something i have never done before.

jane please take a few steps back. it is the only thing we can do. i have been praying for GOD to paint her into a corner. i will pray the same for your daughter.
we never will give up on our children, we just need to detachment.
we need to still live and function without the daily worrys and concerns that they cause us.
we will never give up hope. my husband and my son have been in recovery and i know my daughter will also be. it just isnt her time yet.
love and hugs
debbie
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495284 tn?1333897642
You will never give up hope on your kids but you have to quit living in their addiction.  It is always said that when the addict has had enough they will stop.  This also applies to you as the family members.  I have said many times that we will beg borrow and steal from anybody and that includes the ones we love the most.  Nothing your kids are doing is surprising to me, I have been there done that.  They are very sick right now and the drugs are talking.  I am in no way making excuses for them, just stating the facts.  This is not their boyfriends fault or anyone elses.  They are making these choices on their own, no matter what their living arrangements are.  Expecting anything from an active addict will only set you up for disappointment, that is a guarantee.  Only you can decide when you have had enough~~~~sara
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Debbie, let's make a pact.  Let's do this together... I know I've been a soggy mess for a what seems like a year to me but really has only been about a month and a half and I'm going to stop crying now.  Enough is enough.  It hasn't helped, its only spread the misery to those around me worse than it has to be.  Will you join me?  

My motto from now on is to pray for the best and expect the worst, actions speak louder than words...  Our daughters owe it to us to earn the trust back, not using our love for them against us to manipulate for what they want.  From now on I believe nothing she says till I see it myself and even then I need to be ready for any positive development to disappear instantly with no notice.  That's just how it is.

Thank you Sara, I know you have repeated that message several times to me and I'm sorry but it took till now for it to sink in.  When she sent me an email from work yesterday telling me she "forgot" her phone at "home" after telling me not to answer if anyone calls from her phone over Christmas weekend, that did it for me.  She's driving to work with 3 bad tires and the phone we bought her is "at home".  I'm done.  I'm so glad you didn't buy that phone for your daughter, Debbie.  Wish I had made that decision too.  Like everything else we've tried to do for her, it was wasted.

I hope you all have a good day today.  Hopefully I can stay stronger than I've been.  Hang in there Debbie, believe me, you aren't alone.  If you are thinking about going away, what would you think about taking your younger kids with you??  A change of scenery and something fun to do would benefit everyone and you all could make a happy memory.  If you go by yourself, wouldn't you just spend the whole time worrying and crying?  Unfortunately I know it wouldn't make me feel better if I went alone.  Just a thought.  

Jane
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495284 tn?1333897642
Jane,  You have no idea how long i was told the same thing!!  I was doing it my way and that was that.  This is all a process my friend.  Her tires may be bad but new tires bring good money when they are sold.  Just remember we will stop at nothing to get what we need to feed our addiction.  Set boundries for you now.

Deb, i agree with Jane on getting away.  Your 2 younger kids know something isnt right.  Why not take them someplace.  Look at the world thru their eyes for awhile, give them your undivided attention.  It may be just what the doctor ordered.

I wish i could take the pain all of you are going thru but i cant, all i can do is help you walk thru it.  Sending hugs your way~~sara
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I'm starting to have pangs of guilt over only one thing...that we aren't paying for her treatment.  She says she is still going, taking suboxone and getting counseling and sent me a receipt that she paid for it, but she is living with someone who in the past she told me was the person who supplied her with drugs.  Now she denies that and says he is supporting her getting better.  I don't get it and feel like if she's getting treatment we should pay but it doesn't add up...  She says her entire paycheck is going toward bills because she is horribly in debt and behind on everything.  I know the debt thing and being behind on bills is true, but don't know if that's where her money is going or not.  I haven't given her anything and really don't trust her for good reason but the treatment thing is complicated...  Its really hard to "turn off" the mother in me and say no to something that might be helping her...

I hope you all have a safe, happy new year.
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1235186 tn?1339127464
Jane. Is it a legitimate receipt?  How long has she supposedly been going to the doctor to get the suboxone? A couple of weeks?  Does she have medical insurance?
The thing is that they become so cunning,crafty and manipulative that it becomes very hard to distinguish fact and fiction.
I really want to commend you. You have learned in one month something that took me years to realize and learn. I think you are doing the right thing by not sending the money.  I look back now from earlier this year  and realize that  before I knew that my daughter was using again   I gave her money that was supposed to go for rent and medicene for her asthma more than likely was used to buy drugs .  
It has been 2 weeks sincewe told our daughter she couldn't stay here. She called and asked if we could talk. We think she is running out of places to sleep. I can say I have definitely been detaching and not so consumed by her.  I feel so much better and less depressed.
No I didn't go away. I spent the week with my boys at home, playing games, going shopping, taking walks. We had a good week together. They are concerned about their sister. Obviously they know things aren't right they are big boys and have already been through a lot with my husband and my older son. They understand their needs to be rules for her to live here.
My husband and I agreed that we would make a contract with her and if she abides by it then all well and good. If not then she isn't welcome and then she will have to figure out for herself what she will do. Believe me this is breaking my heart. I have lived with addiction in my immediate family for 16 years. I am very tired. I am also very strong. I will get through this.
Yes jane we have a pact. As I said you have come a very long way in a month and a half you are awesome. I am very proud of you. The insanity stops now.
I dealt with things on my own and suffered in silence for too long. No medhelp,no alanon, but now I have those things and we arre together in this and I want to thank you ladies for being there. I am so grateful.
Jane please try not to feel guilty if she isn't using anymore than the money she was using to buy her drugs can now go towards her treatment.
Continued prayers for your family
Many hugs and hope
Debbie
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495284 tn?1333897642
I would check with the treatment center and see if she is really going.  If she is and you feel the need to help her pay for it, send a check directly to the center itself, NOT HER.  I dont buy for one minute that the guy she is with now is being supportive.  
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Debbie & Sara,

Thanks for the support, yet again :-)  I am not giving her anything, even for treatment, unless its inpatient and she breaks away from that jerk she's living with.  Guess I was just having a weak moment and the holidays were getting to me.  

Sara, you are right, there's no way that guy is being supportive.  He's controlling her every move and she's lucky he even lets her drive her own car.  Well, maybe she isn't for all I know!  My husband knows a cop out there and he said this situation sounds very familiar and this guy sounds like a pimp.  A dime a dozen punk, the city is full of them.  That hurt really, REALLY bad.  I thought writing my daughter is a drug addict was hard, this is even more so.  (I'm sitting here right now proofreading and debating whether to take that comment out of this posting before sending it!)  The cop "called her by mistake looking for her dad" the other day just to see what she sounded like and he said she sounded very sweet and polite and not drugged up at all.  Of course it was 8:15 a.m. while she was at work so that might have had something to do with it.  I'm surprised she even had her phone with her.

Debbie, she's supposedly been going for suboxone and treatment for approx a month.  She does sound better on the phone, but hardly ever calls or answers so she's probably just timing talking to me so she sounds better.   Her old boyfriend confirmed to me in the beginning it was suboxone because I was worried it was methadone and she would just use on top of it, then a couple weeks ago, he told me it wasn't suboxone and it IS methadone and she is probably using on top of it so I don't know what to think.  He is trying to help but this wasn't helpful at all.  If he didn't know for sure he should have just confirmed she's getting some kind of treatment and let it go at that.  Well, I guess it doesn't matter because she could use other things on top of suboxone too, just not opiates.  I'm 99% sure its a legitimate receipt and she took a pic of it on her phone and texted it to me within seconds of me telling her I wanted a receipt for the first time.  Obviously, it does not say what kind of drug they are giving her.  She is still on our health insurance but the center does not accept insurance and only takes cash.  Gee, they sound like drug dealers too.  Sara, I'm going to call the center on monday and see if I can find anything out but don't really expect them to tell me anything except maybe in general what kind of treatment they do and if they really only accept cash.  If the cash thing is a lie, then that confirms that she was manipulating me yet again.

Best news is that you are feeling better, Debbie.  That made my day to hear that you and your boys spent the week focusing on each other and having some fun.  They deserve it and so do you!  Hang in there, we can do this.  It isn't within our control what our daughters do, but I'm learning we can limit their self-destructive behavior's impact on us, at least somewhat.  

Its sad but I'm realizing I'm a changed person.  I was trusting and believed in the good in people, and now I trust nothing and am starting to think negatively about almost everything.  I'm glad this site is here, its really stopping me from totally hating everyone new I meet.  You all are reminding me there are a few good people out there.
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1235186 tn?1339127464
Jane, don't really expect to get any answers from the clinic or doctor. The whole confidentiality and hepa laws are definitely in place. I remember calling the methadone clinic when I was trying to confirm if my husband was going there. Would not could not give me any info. My husband had to sign a waiver. Initially he would not because he didn't want me to be privy to the info. Only when he was ready to and agreed to tapering did he sign the waiver and he then allowed me to come to the clinic with him to ask questions with him.  My husband was able to pay at the meth. clinic with a credit card. Only cash definitely seems shady.
Please be careful what you write to your daughter in text or email. He definitely seems in control.oh JESUS please protect her. You wouldn't want to put her in any more danger then she might already be in.
What kind of work does she do?  If she has been able to keep her job through this that seems like a good thing.
When was the last time you saw her?
Many hugs and much hope
Debbie
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Debbie,

We went to visit her a couple months ago.  It was right before we found out she was on drugs.  She looked and acted weird and was sweating for no apparent reason but we were too stupid to figure it out.  She works for a bank in the mortgage department.  Its an hourly job.  She has missed quite a lot of work lately from being sick and also a few days with the blown out tire.  I'm surprised she still has that job.  You don't know how many times I've sat here in this very chair and fantasized hurting that guy or worse...I would spend the rest of my life in prison if I knew it would save her but it won't.

Jane

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Well, thanks to you friends, I think we are starting to get somewhere with her.  She called me crying and said she wants inpatient rehab but is still deciding where she wants to do it.  This could be a ploy, but I'm hopeful it might be true.  I'm trying to convince her that our home state is the place she should be in rehab to get her away from the place and people she has deteriorated so rapidly around.  She insists she wants to go back out there afterwards though.  I figure I'm going to go along with that until we get her in the rehab here and they/we can work on her about not going back or starting somewhere new.  She thinks her boyfriend wants her back afterwards and I'm not so sure.  His communications with me lately have been very angry and he stated the last text I got from him that she's ruined his life too, almost as bad as hers.  I had to tell him we weren't covering her rent anymore and that set him off.  I don't blame him, but we have paid $1,000 in rent for that apartment (3 months worth) and she hasn't even been living there.  Enough is enough.  It is her responsibility, not ours.  

If she agrees to come back here, I think I might fly out there, get her new tires and we can drive her car and as many possessions we can fit in the car back here.  No tires unless this decision is final and I'm there with her.  I want to bring the car so it won't be a reason for her to go back although I'm not telling her that.

Does anyone have any suggestions about how I can push her over the edge and encourage her to make a "final" decision about coming here and going to inpatient rehab?  I've been telling her she deserves a good, stress free, healthy life and this is where she needs to start, there are no other paths to take her there...  I've also told her, only if she comes here and goes to inpatient rehab, we will catch her up on her bills, not pay them off, but get her up to date so when she gets better and goes back to work, she can start fresh.  

Jane
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495284 tn?1333897642
She has to push herself over the edge.  I agree that getting her out of that environment is the best for her.  We have to change our playground and playmates when we enter the world of recovery.  I would look into a long term rehab place for her.  The typical 28-30 days isnt enough.  Try and stay in the moment right now.  Helping her when she gets out is fine but that is in the future.  Focus on the journey, not the destination~~

Keep us updated.  I hope and pray she goes thru with this now.
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1932256 tn?1327949940
Hi Jane, my heart truly goes out to you! Earlier today you posted on a thread about my son [Somebody PLEASE help me help my son] and your screen name just jumped out at me because it is SO me! I've been reading your story and OMG, we have been through so many of the same things, it's amazing ... and sad. The good news though, is that you seem to be "getting it" and taking your life back a lot sooner than I did. I hope and pray that you stay strong and stand your ground!  I tried many times, but always caved in eventually. My son has manipulated me in more ways than I can tell you ... at one point he even convinced me to take my own MRI to a pain clinic and get prescriptions of my own, fill them with my insurance so they would be cheaper, and give all the pills to him & his wife so they could sell them in order to pay their bills and get caught up ... I still to this day can't believe I actually did it. It was in a terrible part of downtown Atlanta, armed police on the front porch of the place and I had to be escorted through a locked steel door to see the "doctor". I was terrified but he had me so convinced that this was the only way to "help" him, that I went through with it ... not once, but twice!  He was so hooked on pain pills that he was willing to put his own Mother in an extremely dangerous situation and I was just as "sick" as he was because I did what he asked, even though in my gut I knew it was wrong!

He has lied to me and stolen from me so many times over the years that I lost count, he's been in so many jails I lost count, and I even got to the point that it was a RELIEF when he was locked up! It was the only time I ever had any peace.

This all started when my son was just 15 years old and I enabled him for so many years, forced him into rehab time after time, bailed him out of situation after situation, paid his rent, car payments, bought his groceries, etc, etc ... all the while he was spending his money on drugs. I even walked away from 2 husbands because "they just didn't love my son enough".  My son is now 35 years old, divorced and living with me again. My husband of 11 years (one that I am NOT willing to lose) and I let him move in with us with the understanding that he could not continue with the pain pills ... so he convinced me to take him to a methadone clinic to get off the pills, which I did and I pay for (in cash) every single week. He started drinking heavily in addition to the methadone, which is a real no-no, and got VERY sick. He was tapering off the methadone so I thought he was sick because of withdrawals.

I ended up taking him to the ER on December 19th and it turned out that he had severely damaged his liver and pancreas from all the years of pain pills, a lot of which  are FULL of massive amounts of tylenol, and years of drinking. He stayed in the hospital for 2 weeks and was the most pitiful sight you'd ever want to see. The doctors told us that there was nothing else they could do and that the only thing left was prayer.  A week ago I had to start thinking about burying my 35 year old son. My heart was breaking and I felt pain like I've never felt before and couldn't even imagine!
The doctors released my son a few days ago and he's still very sick and we still don't know how this will all turn out. He can't work and can't drive so I have to take him every 3 days for blood tests, to see specialists ... and yes, he still has to go to the methadone clinic. He is now literally fighting for his life!

The reason I'm telling you all this is because you sound so much like me in the beginning of my son's sickness and I don't want you to wait 20 years like I did. You sound like you're on the right track and I want you to STAY on that track and STAY STRONG!!! I'm begging you to stand your ground and don't give in!

I'm praying for you, your daughter and your whole family!

God bless,
Cindi
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Cindi~

That's why I posted on your thread too.  Your situation really hit me hard because as I read the entire thread I could see how each step of the way your decisions/actions would have been similar to mine in the same situation, before I found this forum.  Now we are both getting an education in how to handle this problem and I'm so glad for both of us!  Stay strong and I am proud to know you.  You are a great mother and now that both you and I have expert help we can do this right for the sake of our children.

Take care.

Jane
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1932256 tn?1327949940
Hi Jane, Yes we certainly are getting quite an education here - Thank goodness! I wish had found this site years ago but who knows ... If I had I may not have been through enough or open enough to listen.

You have made SO much progress in such a short time and that thrills my heart! Your daughter is very lucky to have you and one day she'll realize that :-)

I will continue to pray for you.
hugs,
Cindi
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1530493 tn?1410060236
Hi Jane....I've been thinking about you, so very much, actually my most recent experience, made me think of you, that much more.
I've had another eye opener...that I wanted to share with you.

I have for so long been wrapped up in my son...even though I continue with the tough love...emotionally, he still owns me,  he's my son
  
A week ago...I could have lost something just as precious to me... my daughter...because I still couldn't see past my son, and all that goes with "his" ever consuming addiction.
Life has settled, but this has only reinforced in me...how very much, I allowed his addicition to still control me, in other ways....I lost "sight" of my other children, and I didn't even see it.  
You have other children, that need you as much....Never give up on your daughter...but take a step back, and see the whole picture.  
I was fortunate everything worked out as it did...there certainly could have been a much worse out come.  
I looked around Jane...I SAW what I still have.
Another reminder of this journey...Maybe...but I was glad it was given to me, as heartbreaking as it was.  
So many things can change in a blink of an eye....
Always in My Prayers
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Deb,

Thank you soooo much for the wake up call.  It is so true, everything you said.  I keep thinking to myself I need to focus on the good, other things in my life but its almost like I'm daydreaming, only half there, as hard as I try.  I will keep trying though, eventually I might get better at it.

I'm so glad things have settled down for you as much as possible.  You are a good and loving person, Deb, and your entire family is lucky to have you!

Things are pretty much still the same here.  She is still saying she wants rehab but can't leave the state because of legal problems.  Her "good" boyfriend has had enough and if she does go to rehab in that state I don't know where she's going to live afterwards unless he reconsiders.  So complicated.  I know its her issue to solve, but I am very leery about paying for rehab when she has nowhere to go afterwards except back to "old" situations.  We can't afford inpatient rehab more than once, this needs to happen right the FIRST time.  I'm hoping to speak to her today when she's on break from work and see if I can get any more information from her.

Jane
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495284 tn?1333897642
How is it going ladies?
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Sara,

Thanks so much for checking up on us :-)  We are getting closer and closer to inpatient rehab!  She has started calling around and found the one she wants.  They do medical detox with subutex along with other medications for rls, etc. (she's already on suboxone so I guess they will start by detoxing her from that) then intensive therapy, groups, training, etc., etc., for as long as you care to stay and pay.  It is on our insurance plan so although we will need to pay a lot, we are verrry lucky most of it will be covered.  I do have one question that I can't figure out, how long is enough?  When she spoke to the rehab over the phone, they told her she has to have an exact date she's checking in and they need to know how long she's going to stay.  I didn't expect that, I figured they would evaluate her and make a recommendation...  We figured at least a month, but in your previous post you said a month isn't enough...  Once she leaves there she will receive aftercare for life included in the price of rehab.  It is a once a week meeting with a network of graduates who have been in recovery at least a year checking on her and driving her to aa/na if necessary in between.

As far as living arrangements afterwards, she will be moving back in with her "good" boyfriend the way it looks now.  She did express an interest in coming home for a "few weeks" after rehab!  That was amazing to hear because before she went on the suboxone and was doing heroin she was adamant about NEVER coming back, even for a visit.  I asked her how she's going to get away from the guy she's been staying with, especially since he's so controlling and she told me she's going to "just disappear".  She will be gone for over a month to rehab that's over an hour away from where she is now and is on the edge of a park in the woods.  Especially if she visits home by the time she gets out of rehab he will probably stop looking for her.  He does not have a car so it wouldn't be easy for him to keep circling the city looking, especially long term.

Right now, the plan is to check in two weeks from now, she needs time to arrange leave at work and figure out some stuff and since she's on the suboxone she can plan things out better than she would have been able to on heroin.  Believe me, we are hopeful, but know this isn't a "done deal" yet.  As usual we are hoping for the best and planning for the worst.  Thanks!

Jane
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1932256 tn?1327949940
Hi Jane - You've really been on my mind lately and I wanted to pop in and see how you're doing? I hope things are going better for you ...

Cindi
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Cindi,

Thanks so much for checking in on me.  We're plugging along, she's still saying she wants inpatient rehab and we have agreed to pay for what the insurance company doesn't cover but she has a court date coming up and can't go till after that.  Hopefully it isn't some kind of stalling tactic...again.  She's still on the suboxone and working...  How are you????

Jane
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1932256 tn?1327949940
Ahh, I'm hanging in there. Unfortunately, I know what you mean about "if she's not stalling again" ... Are they the best liars and manipulators in the world, or WHAT?!?  I think my son should have been an actor, he's so good at it!!

He's still on the methadone and filled out a form yesterday to start tapering off. I have my fingers & toes crossed!

Hang in there ... lots of people are pulling for you ... and praying for you :-)

hugs,
Cindi
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495284 tn?1333897642
We are masters at the game of deception and lies.  The key word here is GAME.  Once you are no longer part of our game we have to start taking responsibility for our actions.  That is why we preach recovery care so much.  When there are no players our game is over.
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1809070 tn?1402577679
Hi Jane,

I was really moved by your post, i feel your pain and I know how lost you feel. I have four sons, two in college, one in school and one in jail for a drug related crime. He came from a good family, he had every opportunity, but he gave himself to heroin instead. He was 17 when we found out he was using drugs, he's been in rehab twice, we've spent close to 100 thousand dollars on his "recovery", my point is that know matter what you do, how much you spend, how many hours you cry, nothing will matter until your child truly wants her recovery for her selfs sake. Please try Alanon, i resisted it for a long time, i didn't think it could possibly help, but you know what? it did :) I will pray for your little girl and your family,
Alexandria
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