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Sure about nothing
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WELCOME TO THE ADDICTION: LIVING WITH AN ADDICT COMMUNITY. This patient support community is for family members and loved ones of people who are substance abuse addicts. Discussions cover how to help your loved one, enabling, coping with the emotional impact of addiction, intervention, and when to seek medical help. If you are not a family member of a substance abuse addict and instead need help with your addiction, please visit our Addiction: Substance Abuse Community to get the support you need.

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Sure about nothing

Hi.
I have been reading some threads here for several days. I have found that there are some very smart people here. I would love to share my experience with my daughter and get some opinions. I have many friends who tell me what they would do and are supportive, but let's face it. You never know what you would do in a given situation. So, here we go...

My youngest daughter was always such a bright spot in my life. Always happy, loviing and giving. She always seemed wise beyond her years. She loves to read and learn. She is very smart and beautiful. She graduated early from high school and went on to college and has earned her bachelors degree. She had great motivation in the past to go on and get her PhD so she could become a professor. Her major was English with a minor in communication. her goal was to double minor also in Spanish which she was becoming very fluent. In the summer of 2010, she had the opportunity to go to Spain and study there with a group from her school. I had a really bad feeling about her going, but wrote it off to "mom" nerves. It was a great opportunity for her.

The first week there, she was attacked and sexually assaulted by 4 men late at night as she walked to find a bus to go back to her host family house... yes, she was alone. She managed to get away and ran and ran until she found a vacant cab all the while the men were looking for her to get her in their car. She made it safely back to the host family house. She had minor bruises and cuts and obviously a very broken new reality.  

She managed to stay in Spain for another week in the apartment of the head of the group from the college. She couldn't keep food down and cried all the time so we decided she needed to come home. It was great having her back safely as you can imagine. I convinced her to go to counseling regarding the incident which I found out later, she really wasn't going.

She subsequently moved out with her best friend into an aprtment not far from home. It began with her always needing money for school, books, fees, etc. I was willing to pay and was excited that she even wanted to get back to her studies.
Over a period of about 6 months, it began to dawn on me that something wasn't right. She asked for too much money, but always had a good reason it seemed so I gave it to her. Eventually I told her I could no longer support her like that. She was also mad at her roomie at the time and so she moved home. I thought would be OK then.  

She would wake every AM and tell me she had to go to the library to copy something for a fellow classmate, or run some type of errand. I was becoming very suspicious at this poiint so I followed her one AM when I heard her tell someone on the phone she would meet them at the bank parking lot downtown. I watched some kind of exchange. I figured it was weed. Soon after that, I became vigilant about checking into things she was stating she was doing. OMG... I'm rambling..

OK, to the gist of the story. One day at the end of May 2011 as I was going through my Mother's bank statement (she's 82 and lives with me and I also take care of her... and work full time). I noticed several forged checks my daughter had written to herself equaling about $500. I ws LIVID! I called her into the room and it was then that she admitted her drug problem. She was addicted to opiates, specifically Roxy's.

I immediately began searching for a place where she could get treatment. We visited several places as she said that she wanted to get clean. None of them sufficed. There was always something wrong with them. She begged me to please let her try it her way first, and if she back slid, she would go to inpatient. She goes daily to a methadone clinic to get her dose. I wanted her on suboxone after doing research, but she refused. (I know what you are saying to yourself... why did I let her choose her treatment? If I could only go back....)

So she has been doing the methadone since June 2011. About 2 weeks into treatment, she met a guy. This is where I really messed up. She asked one night if he could stay because it was really late and he lived about 45 mins away and they were just going to the clinic first thing in the AM and it would be silly for him to go home..... oh, and he didn't have a car.... or a job. For some stupid, stpid reason, I said yes that night. 1 night turned into 2 and he hasn't left since. I know, I know... would beat myself up over it if I could. But the reality is he is still here. She is almost 23 and he is 27. He has no car still. I tried to throw him out one night but my daughter was gonna go too. They were going to live in her car and I just couldn't bear that. I told them to both get jobs and start paying some rent.

They both have had jobs off and on. I have only seen about 200 bucks since this all began in June. They are complete slobs. They live in the basement and never clean. It is a newly finished basement and was beautiful. I caught them not long ago growing pot in the closet and made them throw it out. Then, they were trying to grow some type of mushrooms... made them throw that out. There are strange things all around. I found some Ball Jars out back with something in it that looked like corn or cat litter that was fermenting... I have no idea what this is. Confronted daughter today about it and will get to that. Is this some kind of natural thing he is doing to get high? I have no idea.

I feel like I am typing too much and have lost your interest. Bottom line is I don't trust him for sure, and I am having a hard time trusting my daughter. Before she got caught, she pawned alot of my jewelry including some sentimental pieces that can never be replaced and stole around  $1000 from her sister. I caught her last week with her sister's TV in her trunk. She said she was going to let a friend borrow it. Then I find a receipt where she had pawned my deceased step fathers trumpet in Nov. 2011. When I asked her where the trumpet was, she said she pawned it back when she was addicted. I then told her she was lyiing because I had the receipt from Nov 2011... she apologized and swore to me she just needed money and was not using. I cannot trust her even though I want to. She has all of our spoons downstairs and says she's scared to bring up dirty dishes because she doesn't want to see me or my Mom. There is so, so, so much more. Today, I reached my tolerance level.

I confronted her about all of these things today. I do not like, have never liked her BF. He is lazy. I have asked him to do things around the house like mow in stead of rent. He will do some, but never finishes. She can't see that all of this trouble between us started when she met him. She claims he is the love of her life. He has had 4 jobs in the last 2 months. he keeps saying they are "too hard" and quits. She believes that he has found the right job and he will be a great partner for life. I told her today that I want him out. She says she will go too and I said that's her choice. She told me that I don't love her and I said I knew she would say that. I know she knows I do.


Am I making the right decision? I saw a thread on here talking about letting them hit bottom before they can truely recover. I know she hates me now. She thinks I don't love her even after all I have done for her. I let her know today that I have given her close to 10K since this all started. She seemed unphased and in my anger I called her a brat. I know I have to get a reign over my emotions but it's so hard.  I just need some advice. If it wasn't for the rape in Spain, it would be easier to know what to do. She only got involved with the opiates to kill the pain of the incident. She has told me she was so low, she wanted to kill herself and I don't want to make a mistake to send her back to that dark place.

Any suggestions? I need help....

Tags: scared, boyfriend from treatment, lies, parent of addict, Addiction
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54 Comments Post a Comment
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495284_tn?1333897642
Hi and welcome to the forum,  I am sara, a recovering addict/alcoholic.  The first thing you need to do is pack them up and get them out of your house.  Your daughter is going to be mad but that is okay.  They are both adults and no longer need to live off you.   That is enabling them to continue to do what they do.  No more money should be given to her at all.  You have gone above and beyond what you needed to do.  She needs to be held accountable for her own actions now.  If they have to live in her car then so be it.  You need to support her recovery, not her addiction.  I hope you will check into Alanon.  That is for family members who have loved ones that are addicted.  You get the brunt of our addiction.  It is time to take care of you.  You become just as sick as we do,( the addicts.)  You have to set boundries for you now, she has stolen from you to feed her addiction.  As addicts we dont care who we do this too, our first priority is to feed our addiction.  Dont make it easy for her.  As i said before, she has to be held accountable for her actions.  She will do whatever it takes to try and make you feel guilty.  Dont give in, no matter how bad it hurts.  Alanon will help you, these people have gone thru or are going thru the same thing as you.  Keep talking with us as we are here to support you.                 sara
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1973938_tn?1325979991
Thank you so much Sara. I have seen your posts before and was really hoping you would agree with my putting them out. It is so hard though. As I spoke with her today and told her what was going to happen, I looked in her eyes and only saw a shell of my daughter. I saw a liar and a thief and it sucked. I gave her til the end of the month for them to get out. I understand the whole psycology behind making them responsible for their own actions, but no one said it wold be this hard! I am going to depend on you guys for support. I have been in therapy since her rape in spain and finding out about the addiction. Everyone says the same thing... make her go. It's so hard, but I will not give in this time. Please be with me thru this.
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495284_tn?1333897642
We will all be right beside you, dont worry about that.  I am glad you are in therapy.  As a parent we take alot on our shoulders as these are our babies and we always want to make things better for them.  In this case the way we. do make it better is to not enable them.  I speak alot from the addicts point of view and try to help all of you understand why it is so important to stand on your own and set boundries.  When we are actively using we will move heaven and earth to get what we need from anyone and we play you like a fiddle.  We know how to pull on those heart strings as we know that eventually you will cave.  When that is taken away from us it requires us to actually look at our insane lives.  Standing your ground does not mean you dont love her or you have given up, it just means that you no longer will be a part of her addiction.  She will be angry and may say things that will floor you, just remember these are words of an addict.  Your daughter is still in there and that shell will eventually produce that pearl~~~sara
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406584_tn?1399591666
I'm very sorry to read of what happened to your daughter in Spain.. and also very sorry to read about the position she is in. I agree with sara that you are doing the right thing by kicking them both out.. I also em a recovering addict and alcoholic my first drug of choice was heroin.  I hope I do not offend you but knowledge is power and the more knowledge you have the better you can deal.. from what I have read it sounds like they are  into heroin the missing spoons was a big tell tell they cook the dope in them before it is shot The missing jewelery/money and things the t.v. are more then likely being traded for dope. many dealers will accept this stuff and use it for their own our it is pawned you may be able to visit pawn shops in the area and buy back some of your stuff.. as far as the methadone clinic I doubt very much if they are even going there.. living the life of a junkie with no home is very difficult and the faster she finds it difficult and uncomfortable to live the sooner she will hit her bottom. It sounds like you gave her a good life and you sound like a wonderful mom I and can only imagine how worried you are.. I just wanted to shed a little light on her activities and to let you know you are doing the right thing.. lesa
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82861_tn?1333457511
One thing that comes through loud and clear through everything you wrote is that you feel somehow responsible for your daughter's actions and blame the addiction on her boyfriend.  Please tell yourself over and over and over again every single day unil you believe it: YOU are not responsible!  You didn't cause her addiction and right now she is so sick that nothing you say, nothing you do, and no amount of love can fix her.  It's up to her to decide to make a change in her life and right now there is absolutely no reason for her to do so.

Now is the time for your daughter to feel the consequences of her addiction.  Letting her go is the fastest way for that to happen.  Until an addict has her face slapped with consequences, she won't have any motivation to change.  I know that detaching is contrary to everything you feel you should do as a mother, but it's absolutely necessary for recovery to become an option in her mind.  Keep the doors of communication open, let her know you still love her and will support her when she wants professional treatment, but stick to the boundaries you just established.  The "you don't love me" guilt trip is just another addict manipulation to get you off her back.

It's your house.  It's your home.  It's your life that is being torn to shreds by your daughter's addiction and her boyfriend's addiction.  I can't recommend Al-Anon highly enough to help you get back control over your life.  Meetings are about learning new coping skills, how to recognize and avoid enabling behavior, getting educated about addiction and improving our own lives.  Honestly, it's really a self-improvement program more than anything else. What meetings ar not are gripe sessions about all the horrible things our addicts have done.  They are about us and our needs, not theirs.  Counseling is great, but most counselors have no real knowledge about addiction other than the usual misinformation that most of us thought was the truth before we started with Al-Anon.  If you want to stick with one-on-one counseling, try to find a LCDC: licensed chemical dependency counselor.  A rehab facility should be able to help you find one who practices privately outside the facility.

Mentally and emotionally, your daughter is stuck back in Spain and she's using drugs to avoid dealing with it.  That's why detox is only the first step in lasting recovery.  When she's serious about wanting help, an inpatient program will help her face it, learn how to deal with all that pain sober and put it behind her.  All the maturing a sober young woman would have learned in these years has not happened yet for your daughter.  When the time comes that she wants sobriety, it will take time for her to catch up.

Your daughter isn't a bad person.  She is a sick person.  It's her sickness that makes her say and do bad things.  Before now, you've been the only one who has had to deal with all the consequences of her actions.  Now it's her turn.
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1973938_tn?1325979991
Thanks for your support guys. I honestly don't feel like the BF or myself is responsible for this. I blame the Spanish bastards on one hand, but on the other, it was her decision to use to numb the pain instead of getting professional help. Another big issue in the house is that I take care of my ultra-christian 82 y/o mother and she blames me saying that i didn't provide enough church support in her llife and make her have christian friends. (as if I have the super-power to say who is her frined.. lol) This is a very sore spot between us and everytiime she asks about them, I just tell her to ask them herself and to leave me out of the middle as we always get in a fight. (BTW, they did go to church until they made up their own minds not to go.)
@ 10356 I know for a fact, unless she is falsifying records that she is getting her methadone. I get a printout every week of the dosing and payments. It is my understanding that if you use methadone and heroin or opiates that you get very sick. The clinic she goes to makes you take the drug in front of the nurse. I would guess there are ways around that, but not sure how. The spoons, well she explains it by saying she doesn't want to come upstairs... whatever. I have no idea what to think of it. I do know they burn essential oil frequently.
@ JayBay... thanks. I thought that Al-Anon was for families of alcoholics. Did not realize they cater to narc user families. I will check it our.. thanks.
Mostly, I am feeling OK about this, but as  you say, it goes against all maternal instinct. I know anyone in the field would give me a pat on the back and say way to go. She is still stuck in Spain. As I mentioned before, part of our deal to stay out of inpatient was for her to see an outside drug and alcohol therapist as well as what she is receiveing at the clinic. She tells me she gets more from the clinic counselor than the private one. I am assuming that clinic guy tells her what she wants to hear and private therapist is probably more realistic. i would be curious to know from some recovering addicts that have been to methadone clinics what incentive do the counselors give the patients to get off the drug? If they do get off, they are gonna lose profit... are they not? And her telling me they all approve so much of her and her BF being together even though they are both in treatment... I just don't believe that.  My problem with the BF is that he is dragging her down. He is 27, when she met him he had no job, no car, and no real place to live. Parents had kicked him out. He has had 4 jobs in the last 2 months because the ones he's had so far have been "too hard". Still has no car and I have heard about 5 different stories on why that is. He started a new job last week, so we'll see how long he can keep it.
OK.. rambling again. Thanks guys for your support and ideas. i really appreciate it and would love some feedback on the questions I had regarding treatment from those that have been there. I look forward to hearing from you!
Thanks!
Jo
What is the consensus of you that have recovered, of inpatient vs outpatient. My daughter tells me that with inpatient, you are like 90 % more likely to start using again as soon as you are out... and that you meet new connections in inpatient. Any truth to that?
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406584_tn?1399591666
you can do heroin and methadone together.. are you paying for all her treatments ? It is very suspicious the amount of money and other things that have been stolen.. is all the other silverware missing also ? although I guess the drug does not matter it is her commitment to maintenance that I question. as far as treatment it is what we take in with us.. county treatment is a lil different as you can be ordered by the court to attend the success certainly goes down when it is not your choice. To work the program and have aftercare in place when you get out is key and this is all up to the addict..
I was glad to read you do not think this is your fault as that is not always the case and it makes it that much more heartbreaking..  it is all on the addict.. when it comes to your daughters addiction this gives you a head start I hope you check out the alanon meetings from everything I have read those that attend get a great benefit from them..
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82861_tn?1333457511
I've never been impressed with methadone clinics.  At least the one your daughter goes to offers counseling, not all of them do.  It's a cash cow business with guaranteed return customers so final detox isn't exactly in their best interests.  Many of those clinics see their business as "harm reduction."  They assume that the addict is going to use something no matter what, so they might as well provide a safe, legal product and get the addict off street drugs.  That's a seriously defeatist attitude that does nothing to help the addict truly recover.  That's not to say that nobody is successful with these clinics, but those that do recover using them are extremely motivated and usually attend AA or NA meetings in conjunction with tapering and detox.

As for inpatient vs. outpatient business, your daughter is seriously yanking your chain.  Inpatient is the most successful treatment with the caveat that the patient first has to want to recover.  They're out of the environment that triggered them to use and basically receive over 12 hours of psychotherapy ever single day.  It's easy to get and stay sober in a treatment facility because it's a controlled environment.  It's when they get out and have to learn to live life and deal with anxiety without using that things get difficult.  Some people have to return more than once before they can stick with the program.  It's just the nature of the beast.  

Meeting new drug connections is a possibility anywhere at any time whether inpatient, outpatient, through AA/NA, in jail or on the streets.  It's up to the addict to decide she doesn't want those people in her life.

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1973938_tn?1325979991
Thanks. I found an Al-Anon meeting tomorrow night. So, you just show up?

I am curious as to what any of you would do if you found pot in the addicts' bedroom. Do you take it or leave it? Question it or let it go?

She hasn't talked to me since I told her I wanted her BF out. Her sister has and says she was crying hysterically and was thinking of looking into a homeless shelter. I told her sister that she was probably trying to manipulate her as well and make her feel sorry for her. She has asked for no money that I know of. I assume her and the BF are going to work.

I read a letter she had written to the BF a couple of days ago. Apparently he must have told her that he was having some problems and feeling like a mooch because he couldn't support her financially. He must have mentioned me as well since the words "**** Mom" jumped off the page at me.  She wrote him this letter to answer his soliloquey (sp?) about their relationship.
I read her response and she said things like he is not a mooch of a financial burden (umm... she has no money, of course it's not a problem for her), He has "saved her life" and she loves him so much. She had to ask him if he loved her. She asked him if he had stolen from her family. She said that she didn't care that he was having a hard time keeping a job, that she would support him no matter what because he is the love of her life. And she knows one day he will find his calling. Gag, gag, gag. For a person with a 4.0 in college, she is too vulnerable. I was thinking maybe she thnks she can save him so she doesn't have to think about saving herself... what do you think?

I feel like a pinball bouncing around in the machine. It almost makes me feel like what bi-polar must feel like. One minute I feel great about the decision and the next I am questioning myself. Just when I get in a good place, the damn  pinball launcher sends me back out into flipper land getting hit from all sides. I sent her a text last night which she never answered. Should I not do that? I would love to keep the lines of communication open, but apparently she doesn't feel like talking now. Do I leave it alone? All I said in the text was that I love her and wish we could continue our conversation. Nothing mean or aggressive. It hurts that she doesn't want to talk to me, but I accept it.

Grrrrr... I just want this all to be over. I am a very sensitive person and it is affecting every aspect of my life. I know that sounds selfish as she must be going through worse Hell herself. It's so hard to know what to say or do anymore. I am looking forward to the Al-anon meeting tomorrow night. I hope that I won't chicken out or be too self conscious. So, you can just walk into these meetings?

Jo
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495284_tn?1333897642
Yep you just show up, you dont have to even talk if you dont want too.  You will be surprised to hear them talk as they will be telling your story, the only difference will be the names...
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Yes, just show up.  I felt a lot like you did the first time and was pleasantly surprised at how welcoming everyone was.  Nobody judges you negatively because they've all been or are in the same position that you're in now.  I resisted Al-Anon for far too long because I thought it meant that I was giving up; I was a failure and of course failure was a bad thing.  Well, in a way that's true.  MY way of dealing with life was a failure!  Al-Anon and aftercare help me find much more productive ways of living my life and to stop trying to control someone else's life.

I have to ask: how did you find the personal letter she wrote to the boyfriend?  If you're rifling through her room, please try to stop!  It's up to your daughter to share these things with you and the only thing happened by reading her private thoughts was that you got upset.  Same thing goes for the pot.  If you're tossing her room, stop.  It's one thing to catch her or the boyfriend with it and laying down a boundary that you won't have it in the house, but playing DEA cop and throwing it out won't help a thing.  They'll only go out and get more and get better at hiding it.  Meanwhile, that means you're still living in her addiction rather than taking care of yourself.  

You've set a boundary that they have to leave.  Stick with that and let the rest go for now.  Refresh my memory - did you offer your daughter a choice of staying home with treatment as a condition  vs. leaving the home if she chooses not to go to treatment?  That's one way to support recovery rather than continued addiction.  Anyway, talk about it in your meeting when you're ready to talk.  I fully intended to remain silent in my first meeting and was shocked when everything just vomited out of me.  Never in this life did I think I'd ever be a groupie!  :-)
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1973938_tn?1325979991
Guilty as charged... I'm a rifler. (Do they have Rifler's Anonymous?) The letter was laying on the coffee table as she and I were having a conversation about her BF moving out and I could see it. She knows I read it. But yes, I thought I had learned this lesson a long time ago not to snoop. I only get more upset by doing it. I guess I forgot that lesson and thanks for calling me out on it. It will stop.

She and her BF are going to methadone clinic. That's where they met. I want him out as he is nothing but a mooch. He will get a job when I force him to, then quit after a couple of weeks saying it's too hard. Then,he waits til I pitch another fit and finds something else. He's had 4 jobs in 2 months. I have good reason to believe that he may have relapsed. In the 6 mos he has lived at our house, he has only paid me about $200.

I told her that I wanted him to move out but that as long as she was in treatment, and I'm pushing for inpatient, she could continue to live at home until she gets better.  Living with 1 addict in recovery is hard enough, much less 2. He is not mine to raise. His parents kicked him out a long time ago. She says wherever he goes, she goes. He is the love of her life and she will support him if necessary. It feels like he is an anchor pulling her down and slowing her recovery process. He has been to recovery several times and has always relapsed. I think he has done in and out patient.

Nervous about the meeting tonight, but will make myself go. God knows I need some help from people who are facing the same things. Thanks for all of your help!
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I'm feeling very bad tonight. I didn't go to the Al-Anon meeting. I really wanted to, but I chickened out. Everyone would be looking at me and judging me silently (in my head), I am very insecure... but I'm secure about that! I had a really bad day at work and just wanted to come home and be comfortable and warm.

I am having second thoughts as I have read the posts here. Maybe the problem lies in me. I mean, they are both doing the methadone clinic and both working now. I have my doubts how long he will keep his job, but that's just an opinion... and we all know about those.

Honestly, I read a thread tonight that made me so thankful for the progress my daughter has made, even though there is a long way to go. I think the posters name had the word clue in it. Her son, Austin has had an unimaginable time. I should say that SHE has had an unimaginable time. I feel embarrassed for even posting on here! Maybe I should be posting in the "I hate my daughter's boyfriend section"... lol.

I don't understand the reasons that I get so mad. I find a receipt from a pawn shop and suddenly I imagine the worst. It's like everytime I find a reminder of things she did in the past, the scab is off and I'm bleeding to death. I feel like I have all of these damaged thoughts bouncing around in my head and they randomly fall out. If I take the BF out of the equation, all is good. I have realized that most of my anger is directed at him. Do I still want him out?? Absolutely. But she will go too.  

She hasn't spoken to me since our talk Sat. AM. I sent her a text message Sunday telling her I loved her and wanted to continue our conversation. She hasn't responded.  I want to give her her space, but want to know what's going on in her head. And I fear what he is putting in her head. Is it wrong to try and contact her again?

I feel so bad for Austin's mom. I feel bad for what my daughter has gone through. I feel bad for what she has put our whole famliy through. I feel bad that I obviously don't know how to have a decent conversation with her without her getting insanely mad at me. I try to keep the conversations on topic, but she keeps trying to turn them back against me... I know that's what they do to protect themselves and it's genious... if only they could use that energy for the good


I just want peace. If they could live in the basement apt and take care of it, pay rent, buy their own groceries and quit the pot smoking and the benzo use, I'd be OK with that until they get a better footing... assuming he doesn't quit this job too. And get off the methadone. I know it takes time. If I understand it right, they decrease by 2 mg every week. Is that a good thing? After reading more on here, I realized that her brain is not the same brain pre-Spain. Maybe I am asking too much too soon.... or is that being an enabler???  There is so much gray area, and I am miserable. I have never blamed my misery on myself til now. HELP!

Jo
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hi jo,
thats ok you didnt go to a meeting. try again another night. no one will look at you funny. they have all been where you are. the first few times i went to meetings i sat and cried the whole time. i didnt say a word. everyone understands. you will get so much support there. whether it is alcohol, heroin,benzos,pills................ it is all addiction and how we who live with addicts respond to their addiction.
i am the wife of a recovering addict, he has been clean for 23 months. my son who is 26 has been recovering for 2 1/2 years and my daughter 20 is still in active addiction.
what your daughter endured is horrific. she is hurting and has been numbing her pain. when she stops using the pain will still be there. she will still have to deal with it and comes to terms with it. then the healing will begin.
my children,(26,20,14 & 12) and i lived with my husbands addiction for 14 years. it was terrible for many years. in the beginning not so bad it got worse and worse as time went on.my children lived with yelling,screaming,fighting. my two oldest also used drugs. you think they would have ran in the opposite direction seeing what drugs did to our family. no they went in the same direction, that is how they dealt with the emotional pain. i had 3 addicts in my house all at the same time. i am calling my husband and children addicts. it is heartbreaking, but true.
they all stole jewelry,checks,money and blamed each other when things went missing. i was going insane trying to manage.
i kicked my son out when he was 23. when he was home had quit high school, never kept a job longer than a couple months, slept all day, out all night, always angry,punching holes in walls. i had sent him to rehab at 17 and then he relapsed. when i kicked him out he got it together because he had too.
he has had a job in sales for 2 years. he is doing great.
my daughter is still using. she didnt live with us for 1 1/2 years, i wasnt sure of her use. well her bf got arrrested for selling drugs and went to jail. she came home for a short time and we then knew she was using. three weeks ago she stole jewelry and money from us. we kicked her out. she is now living with the bf's mother. i am making a healthy detachment from her. meaning i am not living in her addiction. every few days i ask if she is ok. thats it. i am not asking about her using, about her stopping, about how they have any money, or about getting jobs. she too thinks her bf is the man of her dreams, no job,no schooling, no license,a drug addict, on probation for selling drugs, has been forced into a outpatient rehab, he didnt want to stop he was forced. my daughter says oh he is doing the right thing. not of his own choosing though. we will see how long it lasts.
i only started alanon 6 months ago and now i so look forward to my meetings. i go to 2 or 3 meetings a week. i never would have thought i would beable to detach from my daughter like this. but i did and i feel so much stronger,peaceful and am definitely more healthier. i have to children still at home and i have been consumed by addiction in my immediate family for 16 years. i was a basket case, i had severe panic attacks that took me to the hospital ,they thought i was having strokes. i got severe migrane (migraine) headaches that keep me in bed for 2 or 3 days at a time.it was all because of the stress i was living in. i was living in their addictions. i was very sick also. that is why it is a family disease.
please know we are here to support you, you can vent,and help as much as we can.
sending hugs,hope,prayers,encouragment
debbie
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to go back a bit my daughter first got arrested at 17 for cocaine and pot. went to outpatient mandated by the courts. then she started to use again on and off, xanax,coke and now she has been doing opiates also for about a year. i also say if she left him she would clean up, but i cant blame him cause she stays with him. she is choosing to continue to use. i cant stop her,
i so many times blamed myself for staying with my husband and allowing my children to endure his addiction. i never thought it would go on for 14 years, but it did. the last 5 years were horrible. in the beginning it wasnt that noticeable he was a highly functioning addict, he hid it well,
i many times still blame my husband for for my childrens addiction and i am learning that they have choices and are choicing to use. did they have alot of emotional pain? yes, and yes. i had and have had them all in counseling at different times, to deal with the pain. the recovery is a process and we are still healing, day by day.
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(((Debbie)))

Hi Jo-  Hugs to you as well!  I'm Vicki and I am an addict in recovery. I'm so glad you found this group. The women here are very,very special and you have gotten wonderful and accurate advice.

I only have a couple of things to add and Debbie just touched on it:  You're getting sick from their addiction. Listen to your words and the blame and where you're putting it. You're tired tonight, you've had a long,bad day and this is the result. Do not second guess yourself. Your brain is not clouded by drugs!  You need to rest...

Your daughter is feeding you a bunch of BS about the clinic.   Do you know how much Methadone she's getting?  Is she starting to taper? I don't think so...The taper they do is NOT 2mg. The taper is a percentage of whatever their daily dose is. She's making $hit up to feed you. A councellor would never say it's great you two addicts are living together. Never. Not if their worth their salt; which is debatable at the clinic...anyway...all that money gone??? Drugs; it's all for drugs. They can augment their methadone use quite nicely until they hurt themselves, which is likely. You mentioned benzos. Benzos and methadone are deadly.

As far as I can see, you're doing the right thing by kicking him out. If she chooses to leave it's heartbreaking but she can. Now, I would try to yell at her and tell her to sit down,shut up, and "you're not going anywhere"!! Just once. It might work...who knows. I KNOW I'd do that with my daughter and I have (under other circumstances).  

She won't last long without a lifestyle that she's accostomed to. No law says you have to continue to pay for her methadone either. If she stays home and gets well then fine...And yes...I would keep calling. Just call her up and forget about texting. You are not the bad guy here. You have been used by a stranger in your home!  You did it for her and it didn't work so don't you cave right now!   Call her and let her hang up on you but make it clear that you are not abandoning her. It's the opposite.

It's a tough situation given the drugs but further compounded by the violence she endured. I'm thinking the BF represents something far more "special" than she even realizes given that she is a rape victim yet has a sexual relationship with him. There's a lot of pathology right there and it needs to get looked at...and I would worry about an unplanned pregnancy.

You've got a plateful and I support you,along with my friends here,110%!!
You spoke of "clue" and Austin. Yes, she's got a lot going on as well...but in a different way...

Please rest up. Don't doubt yourself. No one will judge you at the meeting so go when you're ready.  xo
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I'm so sad you didn't make the meeting - it's exactly what you needed!  But I also understand how difficult and intimidating that first step in the door can be.  Like you, I had preconceived notions of what meetings were about and the thought of spending time with a bunch of "weak, broken people" wasn't exactly attractive.  Everything I thought I knew was 100% wrong.  Those people were no longer broken, they were healing and getting stronger every day - and now I am too.  I understand you may not be ready right now, but try not to write it off altogether.  When you've really had enough and realize that your way of coping is still keeping you in that dark, hopeless place, you'll be ready to try a different way.

Meanwhile, you can start educating yourself about addiction.  One of the best resources (in my opinion) is the Big Book used by AA.  The same mental processes and problems apply to alcoholics so the book is relevant to addicts as well.  It's really eye-opening and inspiring for me - when I can pry it out of my husband's hands!  I know you can get it through Amazon but I'm sure any bookseller either has it or can get it for you.  You'll gain a clearer understanding of how your daughter's thought processes work and what real recovery looks like.  There is also a very fine chapter dedicated to the family members of alcohlics.

Please don't compare your situation with anyone else's and convince yourself that yours is less deserving of sympathy and support.  Yes, clue and Austin have been through a horrific life-threatening and extremely frightening situation but that should never cause you to minimize your own pain or your daughter's.  

Addicts like to have partners in their insanity, which is why your daughter says she'll go with the boyfriend if you stick to your boundary.  (Emotional blackmail at it's most obvious.) They support each other's addiction so that it seems perfectly normal to use.  Together, they justify the morally and ethically bankrupt behavior like stealing from you to support their addiction.

PS - I'm laughing at "Rifler's Anonymous!"  Glad to see you still have a sense of humor working for you!
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Hi ladies!
I'm not really sure how I feel today. Just for one day I'd like to wake up and not have to think about the drama.

@ Debbie - wow. Thanks so much for sharing your story with me. The things that you have been forced to face are so heart-wrenching. Yet, it seems you have remained strong for yourself and I admire that. I am hoping one day to be able to own what's mine and stop trying to change what I can't. I guess lately I have come to the conclusion I am a control freak. I want to let go of what's not mine... I really do. My ex-husband (girls "dad"... I call him the sperm donor secretly) was also an addict. We have been divorced for going on 16 years and I have not remarried. He did right away. He has had nothing to do with his children since they were old enough to decide they didn't want to visit anymore. He DID pay his child support and even pro-rated it for the month they turned 18 so he didn't have to pay 1 penny more than he had to. But, I digress...

I think my point was that I allowed myself to be a doormat and just accepted everything to keep the peace. I thought I was over all that, but apparently I'm not. I am a sucker for a promise. I have been having panic attacks and migraines too since I was a little girl, but that's a whole other story. I am on Cymbalta and low dose Xanax (.25 mg Q8 just so you know it's not that much... just enough to take the edge off.) for my depression and panic. I truely wish you the best with your family. I can't imagine dealing with that much at once. Prayers and hugs for you. Thanks again for sharing.

@ Vicki... thanks so much for responding. Do I remember right that you are a nurse? I keep reading that I am getting sick from their addiction. Does that mean what I thinnk it does? Meaning that I am focusing on it too much and spending too much time and effort on it? I don't know how not to without feeling incredibly guilty... not guilty that it's my fault they are (I'm gonna just say she because he is just a piece of crap in my book.) addicts, but that it's my duty to help her get clean. I seriously ask myself what good am I as a Mother if I turn my back on her when she is sick? Will her anger make her start using again? I understand the correlation between it being an addiction vs a choice. If she is in treatment now, and she leaves with the BF, then starts using again, how is that not my fault. I forced the move. I realize she has the choice to not use, but given the fact that her brain chemicals are not right and won't be maybe ever, how is she capable of making the right choice? I don't know if I'm wording this right, but I hope you understand what I mean.
At the clinic, she is currently on 50 mgs. Not sure where she started in June 2011, but I think it was in the 60's. She tells me they taper down 2 mgs per week. And I agree totally that no couselor would ever OK 2 addicts to be together. That is why I asked her to make me an appt to talk with him.. with or without her. Something always comes up on her end, but I will keep pushing.
Sitting her down and yelling I KNOW would be counter productive. I really, really know in my heart that it is her choice to go if that is what she chooses. I take no responsiblility for that whatsoever, but I would if she started using again. I am hoping she will see just what kind of person he is when they get alone and are responsible for everything. I have offered for her to stay here and I will continue to support her in her recovery. She can live here rent free and have full access to food, showers, etc. But, if she chooses to go with him, all financial aid will stop.
I did get in touch with her today and she agreed to talk with me this weekend. Things to say? Not sure. But hopefully I can make her understand she is making a terrible mistake by following him. One of the things she excelled in in college was arguments.  I keep telling her she needs a law degree. She is one that can make you believe the sun is shining when it's raining. No kidding! She claims to have done all of this research on opiate addction and pulls "facts" out all the time that I have no idea about. This is what intimidates me about talking to her. I get frustrated, have trouble finding my words, then just lock up. It does help to have learned that her brain is not normal on methadone.Ii think she thinks it is. I suppose I can argue how frustrating it is to reason with her because of that fact. I can compare it to trying to reason with my Mom, her Nana, that lives here and has dementia. Alison gets so frustrated when trying to reason with Nana... yea, I'll use that.
The realtionshhip with the BF is indeed, in my rationale, a way of diverting her feelings. I feel she is trying to "save" him, while tossing herself aside. I will mention this as well. I'm open for suggestions on conversation points if you can think of any!
OK... now @ Jaybay. I definately will go to Al-Anon... I swear. But the reason you gave was not really my reason. Quite the opposite in fact. I feel like the weak, broken person and they all know each other and have history. It feels more to me like I am the effed up person trying to join in with the hip people that are getting help for themselves and doing a good job. I know everyone has to be new at some point. I AM going to go... and really can't wait, just have to be in the right frame of mind. Honestly, I had a really bad day at work, looked like
H. E. Double Hockey Sticks myself because I have a sty and my eye is all swollen and red and have a ginormous zit on my forehead. I looked like a loser! There! I said it! I do worry waaayyy too much about what others think.... always have. Bullied severly as a child.
And yes, I do try and keep my terribly warped sense of humor... I mean, what else you gonna do?
I have written another novel and I apologize for the length. I have alot to say I guess.
Thanks so much to all of you for caring enough to spend your precious time on strangers. God bless all of you. It means alot. I hope one day, I will have enough knowledge to pay it forward. I will keep you posted on how the conversation goes this weekend. If any of you ahve suggestions for me, let me know. I think by sharing some seemingly unrelated things, you can kind of get a feeling for my personality... bless all of you that keep writing after you figure THAT out! But seriously, all suggestions are welcome.
Once again, thanks. I wish all of us can have the life we dream of!
Peace,
Jo
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Hi Jo!   I don't know where to begin without writing a novel myself!  When I mentioned you being sick from her addiction it's exactly what you're going through now. She's the sick one and you're manifesting an illnes: panic,anxiety,depression,uncertainty,insecurity,etc...it's perfectly normal but it doesn't work toward keep ing you strong!

You need to find your strength right now so you're NOT a doormat. You need to know that your decisions are correct and speak to the issues. You will not cause your daughter to use. She's already on MMT and is probably taking a few other things,as well. She's already using...you will either cause her to wake up or hit bottom but whatever it is, it's still her choice. She makes the decision with herself; you're only giving her a choice AND a way out. That sounds right to me!  

Granted her brain is on drugs right now but she's still conscious. When you talk with her this weekend, try to get her to see the wisdom in her staying at home. Addicts make bad decisions but there is a point where they can be broken down with the facts. Leave emotions out of it. The facts alone should wake her up. She may have to go to "see" all this herself and she probably will. She's probably banking on the fact that you're too soft to let her go without. But you're strong!!  You have to let her go and if she does, remind her it's her choice.

Do not let her bully you. She's good in an argument but "he who has the gold, makes the rules"...You are the strong one in charge here and she should know that. She should remember how much you love her...Just keep in mind that in acute addiction, we are never wrong!  We know everything, the rest of the world is stupid and not to be trusted, we can do anything, and we will never fail, suffer,make a mistake. We are omnipotent. It's very sad...

This weekend, just stick to the issues and try not to let her sidetrack the conversation, bring up other issues and that sort of thing. Try not to let her talk too much; that's when she'll try to snow you! (I'm STILL chuckling about the spoons!  She didn't bring them upstairs because she was afraid...HAHAHAHA!  That's a snow job!)

I feel for you and for what she's doing to you. Please know that that she is not capable of being compassionate or empathetic toward you right now. It doesn't even occur to her. It's all about her right now...because she's sick.

Get yourself some books and read,read,read! I'll tell you what and don't laugh: one book that's quite good is "Addiction for Dummies". (Honestly, I gave it to my Mom and she learned a few things!) Do a search through Amazon Books to see what's out there and order a few for yourself. That will help you for now, until you feel able to go to some meetings...it will also give you knowledge that you'll need for the future.

Tell me what your understanding of Methadone is...I just want to make sure we're on the same page.

xo
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When we are in active addiction we only hear what we WANT to hear.  I have a feeling when you have this talk she will turn the tables on you and you will find yourself defending you.  Just be on guard for that.  As for you not wanting to push her to far and make her use again, she already is using.  Dont downplay this by making excuses for her.  She is a grown woman now and needs to be held accountable for her actions.  You may not like her bf but she does and the more she hears the negative about him the more she will defend him.  They are both feeding off each other right now as they are both very sick.  Coddling will not help her either.  Addicts are ruthless in getting what they want and will do anything and i mean anything to get what they want.  Your life is consumed now with her addiction and this isnt healthy.  Addiction isnt healthy, recovery is and that applies to all of you.  The more understanding you get of what is going on with addiction the more you will be able to be pro active.

I dont care if you look like a cyclop, you walk into that meeting, those people there look at the person you are on the inside.  It doesnt matter if you dont have mascara on or wearing a gunny sack, you are there for a reason.  Beauty lies within my friend~~sara
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Thanks Vicki and Sarah! You have lifted my spirits! The comment about cyclops cracks me up. It's funny, because someone at work said it looked like a 3rd eyeball... lol. And you are right, I know. The bottom line is my head just wasn't quite ready for it yet, but it will be next time fo sho!

Thanks for the support and everything you say makes sense.. both of you. I do know you are right. This may sound geeky, but I think I'll make an outline of my points just so I can stay on track. I refuse to let her frazzle me. I AM strong! AND I am RIGHT!!

Would it be bad to let her read this forum? So she can see that I am not making these things up?

Vicki, I loved your sentence "Addicts make bad decisions but there is a point where they can be broken down with the facts. Leave emotions out of it." I am banking that it is dead on. I don't recall if I mentioned this before and I'm too lazy to go back and read my own posts...lol, but when I talked with her last weekend about the BF moving out, she sat there for a couple of minutes fake laughing at me. She told me that i was mad at the wrong person and some day in the "omnipotent" world I would find out and she couldn't wait to see my face. Come to find out, she was refering to her own self a year ago. I was unaware at the time that she was using and she claims that I pampered her and now that she is doing better by taking methadone, I am being unreasonable. And then just laughed and laughed some more.

I expect her to try to turn tables, try to direct the conversation towrds something I did wrong, etc. I have to keep her on topic.

My understanding of methadone is that it is an opiate antagonist meaning it binds to the opiate receptors in the brain and prevents the craving for opiates. If
used in conjunction with opiates, you become very sick. The cravings for using opiates are quelled, but I have been told that you can still feel a high from methadone... which is why alot of addicts choose it over subs. A slow taper is, from what I've read, a better way to go to keep from relapsing. So... how far off am i? What else do I need to know?

Thanks again Ladies and I am very happy I found this forum. It is the bomb!
-Jo  



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Hi jo. I read your post and was so touched. And want you to know i support you too. I am so sorry you have to go thru this. Addiction is a beast. Im an addict and wish somome would have stopped me sooner. I am married to an addict. It seems to me addicts attract addicts. Sad but true. I just came back from rehab. My husband is still there. I know its scarey to walk in that first meeting. I was freaked out going to na. But it was the best thing i ever did. Please give them a chance. Nobody judges you. Everyone is so worried about the judging. But people are too into their own problems to judge. And who cares if they do. This is your life not theirs. And i cant imagine what you are feeling. Except its got to be all consuming. And thats not healthy. You need to have the experience of alanon to help you right now. Youd be suprised happily too to see that your not alone. That alot of good people have bad problems. If you like this forum youll love alanon
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Oh and jo i never did herion but i did get hooked on oxycontin. From what ive learned its very similar. I had a knee replacement. Thats what got me hooked. I am now 55 days clean of the devils candy as i call it. So im not that far into my sobriety. At all. But i want to get well again. And until your daughter wants to she wont get clean. Nomatter what you do. Thats the disease. It doesnt care about anything except using and using. It ***** our soul away little by little. When i think about all the stuff i did i am truely ashamed. But i wont dwell on it. I hurt everyone around me. Yes i was a liar. I never stole but i did spend insane amounts of money to keep my addiction happy. Its a rotten way to live. And i agree with vikki whoever has the gold has the power. I wished i had a mom like you. All i got was i dont understand you from my mom. And she drinks a lot. I was like come on. How do you not understand? Addiction is addiction. And then i asked her a simple question.....can you stop drinking on your own? Then she got it somewhat. I would love to talk to your daughter about rehab. I loved it there. They kicked me out because of ongoing knee problems. I am doing outpatient therapy for addiction. And for the first time ever i have to be accountable. I agreed to urine testing whenever. If i mess up i go back. So even though i only stayed a week. Ask me anything about rehab. I loved it. And no im not on methadone or suboxone. I didnt want a drug for a drug. Your stronger than you think.
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Thanks Bama for your words of support. I am beginning to believe I am as strong as I need to be. Thanks for the compliment for wanting a Mom like me, but I assre you, my daughter would disagree! I wish you continued success in your recovery. And i do know about knee trouble myself. Need to have surgery on both, but that will ahve to wait. "Whoever has the gold has the power" is a very comforting thought. I like it!

Please pray, meditate, light candles, bury garlic under an eave... whatever is your religious preference so that my conversations with her this weekend (which are planned) will go well for all. I really have a very funky feeling that there is something... and underlying current that I am "unaware" of... that is going on.

I will keep you guys in the loop. Ready or not, here it comes!

Love
Jo
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I can pretty much guarantee you there is more going on than you know.  As addicts we hide many demons and those arent dealt with until we are in recovery.  Just stand your ground when you talk.  Say what you mean and mean what you say.  No guilt trips, just shoot from the hip.   You will get thru this~~~sara
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Good morning!
You will be proud that I went to my 1st Al-Anon meeting yesterday and it was great! I actually knew someone there. It was the parents of the girl that my daughter had moved in with after her trip to Spain. They were heart-broken to here that my daughter had become an addict as well as both of their children.

I was ready all day yesterday to talk to my daughter. I was in my office working on some things when she came in and said she was too tired to talk to me, if I still needed to, and was going to take a nap. I asked her if she thoought we needed to talk and she said "yes, I guess." She said maybe later in the PM. I haven't seen her since. I told her I went to the Al-Anon meeting and she said she didn't know why because she wasn't an addict anymore because she isn't using. I said she is using methadone and she said that is different. She says if you aren't using the illicit drugs anymore, you aren't an addict anymore. I'm pretty sure that once and addict, always an addict, right? Just like being an alcoholic.

I am going to force her to talk today.

Jo
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Good for you on going to that meeting!!!  I am so proud of you!!!

Umm, yes, once an addict always an addict.  If only it was that easy.  She isnt ready to face her addiction at all with that mindset.  Continue to keep going to those meetings now.  I bet noone noticed you even had a zit did they!!  lol
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That's wonderful you took a giant step forward going to a meeting. It does take courage to go. Good job.  You will get stronger there.
I am not suprised your daughter didn't talk to you.  They tell us what we want to hear just to shut us up. Yes she agreed to talk because she knew that would appease you at the time. The follow through is where the rubber meets the road.
My daughter has been telling me for over a month she is going to come over and talk. I am not holding my breathe waiting.
Just stick to your guns about them or only he having to leave at the end of the month. We get sucked into their addiction and it is very hard to break free. They have had more than enough time to get jobs.

I told my daughter she is more than welcome to come home and live by our rules. She isn't ready to do that yet. She would rather stay with him in a co-dependent,dysfunctional relationship, oh they can't live with each other nonsense. Hold on why I get my violin. then to come home and make positive changes  in her life.
Each day I ask the LORD to protect her, I then have to let go and let GOD I have tried to get her to reason and she isn't capable now. I am powerless over this.
You tried helping and then it does become enabling I know I am very guilty of it. Now they need to stand on their own feet .
Hugs and hope
Debbie
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LOL... actually a curling iron burn... but no. You were right!
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Methadone is NOT different. It's just an acceptable high!  The purpose of MMT is to keep the URGE to do illicit drugs away AND to be getting a life in order, off the streets, away from other drugs,and to have the ability to put body and soul into recovery. She's still getting as high as she wants to,living for free, with her low life boyfriend,in your house, HER MOTHER'S house!!, and not doing a damn thing to progress her lot in life. She is what they call: IN ACTIVE ADDICTION.  She can get through this, of course, but not until Mr. Wonderful is out of the picture and out of your house.

I don't mean to sound so harsh but I have such empathy for you. She's a smart and cunning little girl.  So, yes, she's still using and she's not doing anything that she should be doing while in this maintenance program.

I hope you're having that talk tonight. I'm sending you strength!!   xo
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Thanks Vicki. I really need it. I am crying like a newborn right now. Just finished the talk. I might as well have been talking to a tree in the yard. She doesn't understand why I have animosity for her BF. She doesn't understand why I think she isn't "clean". She doesn't think methadone is a drug. She sees no harm in smoking pot while in recovery. She doesn't understand my concerns whatsoever.
What she does understand is that it's over. I am done. Done rifling through her room, done paying for anything for her, done asking her if she has paid this or that, done being overly- active in her life. As she says, she is grown and knows best. She was very offended that I quoted one of my friends here, forgive me for not remembering which one. The quote was, "Just keep in mind that in acute addiction, we are never wrong!  We know everything, the rest of the world is stupid and not to be trusted, we can do anything, and we will never fail, suffer,make a mistake. We are omnipotent." I actually think it was you.

I swear I'm done. I handed her a piece of paper that I had figured her car insurance and cell phone charges per month on and gave it to her so she wouldn't be surprised. her comment was, "that's not as bad as I thought". Right.  

I am so tired of this and the arguing. I am going to Let it Be. Done. Stick a fork in me. I pinky swore with her tonight that I would not say anything negative about David again to her face. And I won't. When she come crying to me that he has done something or is a bum, I'll just hug her and comfort her. I am so done and it feels good, but sad at the same time. Because I know it's just the beginning. Can't wait to go back to Al anon.  Hold me in your prayers ladies... nite.
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Absolutely lifting you and your daughter in prayer!  I can totally relate to the feeling of being DONE.  Done with living in another's addiction and allowing their actions to change your behavior and take over your life.  I also know how liberating it is to give up control and try and new, albeit scary way of life.

I'm so proud of you getting to Al-Anon!  It's a hard first step but it only gets better from here.  You get the gold star for the day!  :-)

You're absolutely right to call your daughter on her lack of recovery.  Methadone is just a legal source and as vicki said, she isn't using the maintenance program to get her life in order and work a real recovery program.  It's just keeping her from being dope-sick and it's very easy to supplement methadone with additional narcotics.  She's just not ready to face life without mind-altering substances.

And catch this: I'm the one with the big zit right now and experiencing a massive case of deja vu.  It's right on the bridge of my nose and I'm afraid I'm heading for another case of facial and orbital cellulitis just like the last time this happened.  My eyes feel swollen and I've got a killer headache.  Looks like another dam doctor visit for me.  Last time this happened my eyes were nearly swollen shut and I narrowly avoided a visit to the hospital.  My mother so lied to me.  She said I wouldn't have zits by the time I hit 30.  So explain to me why I still get them now that I'm pushing 50!
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Thanks gal!
You are correct in her not wanting to face life without mind altering substances. And thanks for praying for us! I actually woke up this AM and felt good! I am excited about my new life without obsessing over her. Who knows.. maybe I'll even get a date! Another good thing about them moving out is I get to move back to the basement apartment and have some privacy from my mother. This will also improve my stress level. And God forbid, things unravel for my daughter and she needs to come home (again), she will have to be upstairs! I refuse to give up my personal space again! I am picturing that poster in my head with the lady in the scarf flexing her muscle saying We Can Do It!!
Sorry about the zit! Must be contagious amongst us. Just don't pick at it! I had a friend that got a terrible staph infection that way and ended up in the hospital!
Mine was a curling iron burn and there is still a slight scab. you still get them because of STRESS. Sure do wish we could get rid of THAT from our lives!
Excited... Al-Anon tomorrow at noon! Yay!

JO
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Jo-  Yes, that was me you quoted on the 15th.  I'm so glad you've gotten so much support from all the ladies here.  Yes! Rosie the Riveter!!  That's who you are now. You're doing it!!  

She doesn't think Methadone is a drug???   She's full of it! She KNOWS it's a drug...it FEELS like a drug and people abuse it on the sreets all the time PLUS it is sometimes given as a pain med!!  I've given it to people! Man!!  What a snow job...

You're getting your life back and that's good. She'll eventually come around when things go south for her. I have such compassion for her as well. We don't choose do be addicts. She used drugs to mask an unbelievable pain. When she realizes that, she'll be on her way to recovery and you'll be there!  Not all of us are that fortunate...

Keep us informed....xo
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One word sister, Menopause or should i say Mentalpause!!  I never had acne to speak of so i was lucky there.  I did however have the skin of an alligator and the color of an elephant most my life due to the drugs and alcohol.  Now i have color and soft skin but these "wrinkles" are really getting on my nerves!!  I have decided that "bondo" would be cheaper than plastic surgery!!!  My drug years were hard on me and i am paying for it now in that area.  Oh well, bring on the wrinkles cuz this girl is squeaky clean!!

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I am feeling good, mostly. I went to another Al-Anon meeting today at lunch and the topic was how to let go.. imagine that. It seemed that most people don't trust God enough to let go.. something I thought I was alone in. but from what most said, it does pay off. I still am too shy to speak up, but I was thinking how when I do let go, things seem to get worse. I guess they have to get worse before they get better. Something that has stuck in my head was a quote by someone saying that it's like yelling at a cornfield telling the corn to grow faster... not gonna help.

Today, I feel like I have let go and what happens in her life will happen. I am working on myself now. It does feel selfish to me, but I do know the program works so I'm going with it. It feels good to think about me for a change. Mom has been asking alot of questions and giving unsolicited advice, so I just tell her to tell them... not me. I have detached and whatever beef you have, take it to them.

Mentalpause is an old friend of mine Sarah! LOL. I never had acne either, just the major zit now and then. Never did major drugs, just some pot and like some wine now and again. My age (51) is showing as well the last couple of years and I assume it's stress... well, and hormones.  But as you told me in the beginning, beauty is within. I am a beautiful PERSON... not a doormat.

Peace my friends!
Jo
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Hey jo. Good for you. Work on your recovery.continue with the alanon meetings. I
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Sorry.  Let go and let GOD. We tried our way. It didn't work. All we got was more stress,more upset,more crazy,more sorrow.
It takes faith to let go. I feel so much better since I made the conscious decision to let go and let GOD.
just listening to others at the meetings for awhile is fine. You will talk when the time is right. You will gain so much knowledge and strength there. Get to as many meetings in a week as you can.
Keep up the good work. You are going great.
You are a beautiful person. Not a doormat.
Live and let them live.
Hugs and continued hope and prayers
Debbie
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Yes you are beautiful~~~
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Just wanted to update you wonderful people. I am doing very well right now. I feel strong andmostly in control of my emotions. Of course I still have weak moments of doubt and despair, but I am using some tools I have learned at Al-Anon and from you wonderful people!

My daughter and her BF have found a rental house on the other side of town and will be moving ASAP. I do wish them the best. I have only talked with my daughter and she seems very happy. I am happy too that she won't be here picking my scabs everyday. She wants me to believe that she is "clean", but I do know that she is buying some Vivance and using weed. Her psychiatrist who knows nothing of her methadone use, has prescribed her Valium as well. SO... she is not "clean" at all. I have pointed this out to her.

But at the end of the day, I have done all I can... except let go and give it to my higher power. Which is what I now do and I feel peace. I am ready to get on with my own life and quit living in hers.

Thanks for being here and I wish you all the best. I will check in from time to time to see if I can help someone myself! I want to pay it forward. Love and peace to all!

Jo
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Wow, Jo ... that is GREAT news!  Good for you! I've been following along silently and praying for you every day. Your last post makes me feel like doing a "happy dance" - lol

Cindi
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I hope you stick around Jo as you are such a great asset to this forum.  
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I most definately will. I'm sure I'll need more support in the future. Thanks for all the prayers and well wishes!

Jo
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how are things going? did your daughter and her bf move out?
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Way to go Jo!  Do you realize how far you've come since you first started posting here?  What an incredibly uplifting story.  :-)  Keep on coming back!
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Well, it's been a while. They moved out last weekend and I must say, things are incredibly peaceful around here. Of course, they have left a huge nasty mess downstairs which they promised to clean this past weekend. Did they? Of coourse not. I predicted it. They were sick and couldn't come clean. My daughter even said she would show me her receipt from the ER. I accused her of lying to me and of course she is furious and doesn't think I love her. I guess she could have been sick after stirring all that filth up while moviing and not getting enough sleep, but I jsut can't find it within me to believe her. Will it always be this way? I don't want to always doubt her.
Another problem I am having is how not to be so angry when I remember all the money and belongings she stole from her family. I haven't heard this discussed at Al Anon yet, and plan on bringing it up next time. I have realized that whenever I allow myself to think about it, it just makes me sick and very angry! Her sister and Grandmother react the same way.
It is nice to not have to deal with them on a daily basis now. I'm glad they are out even though every now and then, I feel guilty. But I snap myself out of it and I'm OK. Just have to learn to deal with my anger.
Thanks for checking on me! How are things going in your lives?
-Jo
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hi jo,
i am so relieved for you and so very proud of you that you followed through with your word that they needed to leave. you are healing. it takes such a burden off your shoulders. . hopefully this will push them towards recovery.
jo i also have had thousands of dollars of money and jewelry stolen over the years by my husband,son and daughter. each time i remembered it would make me more bitter and resentful. they had long forgotten about it and i continued to harbor the bitterness and resentment. the bitterness and unforgiveness will continue to eat at you like a cancer or an acid.
even once my husband and son were clean i would find myself going back and recalling different situations. through alanon and GOD i found the forgiveness in my heart to let go of it. it wasnt affecting them, it was killing me. we wont ever get back the money or the jewelry, it is long gone.
once you forgive you will find more healing,serenity and peace.
the alanon books do address forgiveness and bitterness. please try to read up on that.
these lyrics are so true.

Jefferson Starship Live And Let Live Lyrics
.
You been holding back
And I know you're afraid to feel
Some one hurt you long ago
And the wounds just did not heal

You never she'd a tear
You had to keep control
So the wounds kept spreading
Until they got down in your soul

Don't you think it's time
Time to forgive
Leave the past behind
Live and let live

Been holding onto anger
Now it's got a hold on you
And bitterness keeps growing
Affecting everything you do
Time to break the chains
You could slip them off today
It's time to make some changes
Before your whole life slips away

Don't you think it's time
Time to forgive
Leave the past behind
Live and let live

Don't you think it's time
Time to forgive
Leave the past behind
Live and let live

Don't you think it's time
Time to forgive
Leave the past behind
Live and let live


hugs,hope,prayers,healing
debbie
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Thanks so much Debbie! I long for the day I can truely say I have forgiven. Just typing those words make me so sad that I am not there yet. I know I will one day though. I love that you took the time to type out those lyrics. It is dead on.
Thanks again for your support! I hope all is going OK for you as well.

-Jo
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You have every right to be angry with her.  Just dont let it destroy you.  The things that have happened to you need to be dealt with just as we the addicts have to deal with our issues.  We have to walk thru them, not around them.  This takes time as we have to face it and then find a place for it.  Her actions will speak louder than words at some point when she finally recovers.

I am working on 4 yrs of clean time and there are times when my family still wonders about me.  Today i had to meet with my PO and she pulled a UA on me.  She wants to get me off probation early so she said putting positive things in my folder will help that.  I was so excited!!  She said she doesnt normally see this sort of behavior, leave it to me!!  Anyways, part of the excitement was knowing i was going to pass with flying colors but the other was being able to tell my family that i passed.  (Had i failed i would be in jail right now)  Anyways the point of all of that was to let you know that it is okay to feel the way you do.  It is all part of this addiction, no matter what part you play in it~~~sara
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I'm back. Just as I knew i would be. Tell me if I am being over-reactive. Daughter and BF moved out 2 weeks ago.  Finished cleaning out their things last weekend. I have texted her a couple of times and gotten the same response up until tonight.  Her response to me and her sister was that she was always too busy to talk. I texted her on Valentine day and never heard a word. She texted me the next day and said she had been busy and was busy now and couldn't talk. Her sister called her to tell her that her BF was admitted to hospital with double pneumonia and she told her she was busy.  No one has heard from her. I texted her today to see if all was ok, she said it was and asked how I was. I told her that I was OK. I also was honest and said it bothered me that she didn't take any time to answer texts back. She totally made me feel bad for even contacting her... she said it had only been a week since we talked. Is it wrong of me to have told her that I would honor her space and if she ever needed anything to letme know... I get too hurt when I get ignored. I wonder if she is usung again? She has totally disengaged herself from her family, it feels. I am so sad.
Alanon today was about asking for help... I need some opinions.
Options... keep letting her know I am here for her or let her find it out herself... Haha.. just typing that, gave me the answer... let her figure it out.  How do I not feel so sad about it?
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What you expect and what you get are usually 2 different things.  Dont set yourself up for this right now.  It has only been a week.  Leave her alone for a bit.  Maybe send a text once a week and just say hi, hope you are having a good day.  Keep it short and sweet.  She has to come to terms with herself in her own time.  Smothering her only will push her further away.  Just keep taking care of yourself now~~sara
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Thanks Sarah!
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It's so incredibly hard to separate the person from the disease and all the terrible things that an active addict does to the people who her.  Of course you're angry!  It's normal to be angry when someone has completely disrespected, used and abused you.  Like domino said, at some point you have to walk through the fire to be able to forgive those things and find your own peace.  Forgiveness does not mean that you excuse those actions; it means letting them go and putting them in the past.  They're over and done with.

It's funny, I knew I'd been one angry woman for a whole lot of years, but I stuffed those uncomfortable emotions until the pressure got too high and I finally blew.  I finally realized it was either me or his addiction and I FINALLY figured out it was up to me to save myself no matter what my decided to do.  (Ain't that right Sara?!)  I don't miss that angry woman one bit and hope never to be that person again.  After a lifetime of stuffing those uncomfortable emotions, I still have to work on letting them out so I don't destroy myself again.  Self-examination and personal change is hard and extremely uncomfortable but it's so very worth it.

Enjoy the peace and quiet and start looking to your own life and what you want from it.  How long has it been since you even thought about what you want and need?  Well that's too long!  :-)
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Hi everyone. It's been right at a year since I have checked in and I apologize for that. I am doing very well since I last typed here. My daughter is doing well too! But I do have a question.
I have been trying to research what seems to be my daughter's next step. She has been going to the methadone clinic since June of 2011. She started at 50 mgs. Now, a year and a half later, she is at 5 mgs and is ready to get off of it. She tells me that Subutex (Buprenorphine only) is what she wants to do. Don't confuse it with Suboxone which is buprenorphine plus naloxone.
The clinic she goes to offers it, but it seems like extortion... price wise. We live in TN and there are only a handful of Drs here that can prescribe it. They also are very pricey.
I have looked and looked and cannot find any info on how to decide what to do next. I asked my personal Dr and he was not much help. It seems like no one wants addicts to get better, but they are more than willing to prescribe these addicting meds.
Has anyone out here had any experience with this? Can you point me in the right direction? She is so close to being off this crap and I don't want her to mess up now.
Thanks in advance
~Jo
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