Please I hope for an urgent answer. My daughter has a long term addiction to heroin. She goes really well for a while and then when her ex starts hassling her (he uses and she left him due to this and domestic violence) she gets stressed and anxious and then relapses. She is on suboxone to help but has messed up a fewtimes in the last fortnight. AS she goes to a clinic she gets random urines. As he has all takeaways, he is only tested once a month and always knows the same day!!! so he is "safe". He is a really nasty piece of works and will find anything he can on her for custody - spite more than really wanting 100%. The problem is that I have bailed her out a couple of times in an emergency, by giving her my own urine :( I do this cause I know she is a brilliant mum and it would devestate her and the kids if came back dirty. She never uses when they are with her, only when its thier turn with dad. Anyway, the URGENT issue is this, my wee has NO ssuboxone and I strongly suspect they are going to test for suboxone on the next test, which is tomorrow or next day. they dont usally but they also suspect her been using and may suspect she is using another persons wee to pass. I have heard that sometimes they will deliberately test for suboxone to make sure not been fiddled with.
I know you cant put it straight into the urine as I read that they test for its changed metabolised levels and that their should be barely any non metabolised in the urine. I cant remember what the metabolised name is, think norbupe..... regardless it can only be in urine that has gone through the liver.
NOW for the crunch. On the couple of times she has used, she hasnt taken her bupe or says it wouldnt have worked or having the bupe to could make her sick. Therefore I do have a small amount here that I hold for her for emergency eg if misses clinic. I have never taken any drugs and am on no medication, my health isnt perfect but its not bad either. I want to take the bupe myself about 8 hours before the urine (so has time to start getting into wee) I dont know how much is safe to take though and am a bit scared. She is on 12mg so of course I cant take that. If I take too small a bit though it may not even show up!!! and be negative. Its like a balancing act. Obviously if I only take a tiny bit (thinking 2-4mg) the levels will be well below what they should be but am thinking at least thats better than showing none at all. If she shows none at all they will think is not her urine, if it shows levels but way too low, they will think not taking it properly. Rather they think hasnt beent aking properly than think has used someone elses wee. HELPPPPPPPPPPP how much can I take at once. I was thinking 2mg and tehn leave a few hours and if feeling ok take another 2 mg ?. Will it effect driving though as we have to drive half hour to pathologist
no never, that why I am a bit scared, i read your other reply also to my same question but idfferent forum. I hope my reply there deepens your understadning of the situation. I took about 3mg I think, about 3 and half hours ago. I read that reached peak at about one to two hours. The only thing I noticed was extreme sweating and I did vomit a couple of times. Felt a bit wierd but t=nothing major, After 3 hours I felt like it was starting to slowly subside, so have just taken another 2 to 3mg, hard to tell exactly as a film type thing. I have every faith in her, the timing was just a dreadful coincidence, any other time it wouldnt have been an issie for her. Shes been to hell and back and soooooo close to full recovery, if you read my other reply it explains things a little better :)
Oh Hun. I wish you wouldn't have done that you vomited because you have no tolerance to opiates and you dosed again. I am scared for you. I did read your other response. I understand she has made progress, recovery group once a week isn't enough, she can't use at all. 8mgs is a pretty high dose of subs. Please don't let her talk you into this. It is dangerous.
Please attend Alanon so you won't continue to enable her. She has you running scared also. You are consumed with her addiction. I know, my daughter has been in a Christian rehab for 6 months.
I would die to save my duaghter and grandchildren. I did wait until I started to feel the peak subside before taking any more.. I wont need to do it again, thats why I did, I know its not an ongoing issue, I know that any furhter tests will be clean, just as they have been till now, like I said just shocking timing. seriously she didnt talk me into it, in fact i think she will freak when I tell her in morning, I just felt like it was the only immediate option
You say you would die for your children...doing what you did today very well may have ended up with that.
Did you read ANY of the replies on your other thread? I'm sorry, but you are so deep in denial and enabling that you cannot see straight or make rational decisions.
You say this will never happen again, sure it will. You've already had her use your urine to pass drug tests at the sub clinic. What's going to change? If anything, your daughter's addict mind will excuse using, and possibly seek it out that much more, because she doesn't have to deal with consequences...you always "fix" everything for her.
You asked a question, and you got SO many great answers, both from people like atthebeach and I who have experience as the LOVED one of an addict, and all the other people who have experience with addiction, who were just like your daughter.
Very very dangerous territory that you're entering into here with your daughter. You could easily OD (still)...and the half life of subs is LONG so there is NO way you waited long enough when you took the second dose. You stacked doses, probably putting a HUGE amount of sub in your system. Like I said on the other thread, you took an equivalent of up to 20 (TWENTY) Vicodin tablets. I would personally recommend that you seek immediate medical attention, to be safe.
Three hours in between high doses of sub, for someone opiate-naive...sweetie, that's a death sentence. If you were willing to do this, you REALLY REALLY need some serious help. The ONLY message you sent your daughter was that you're willing to do ANYTHING to feed and excuse her addiction....that's not "helping" her.
I agree with the above and hope you check back here so all will know you're okay...
I posted on your other thread...and I will suggest here that you get yourself some good counsel as far as handling the situation with the ex...which is really your daughters' problem. This isn't how it should be handled at all and, sadly, your daughter isn't anywhere close to recovery. She needs to address her depression...
just checking back in. well wouldnt advise that desperate measure. 36 hours severe sweating vomiting and no sleep. finalky but better today. the one pisitive is that my desperate attempts shicked the hell out if my daughter as she cried when she saw how i was and realised the risk i would take. she cleaned her room of all paraphanalia and has agreed to let me hang off her and do second daily urines for me. she has akso promised to take her full bupe dose each day and to not bite my head off when i remind her about her other medications. i have never been so sick in my life. she is on 12mg some on 24! and i only took about 7 . god knows why some would want to abuse it
Than you for checking in. We were very worried. Mom please find an alanon meeting and attend for your own sanity. That was an insanely desperate move. You can't control your daughters addiction, she has to. I am so glad you are feeling better . You could have overdosed. Praise GOD you are ok.
I'm not saying this to judge you as I am a mother and know a mothers love. What you did was super dangerous but you are aware of that I'm sure. I just want to ask you this. What would of happened to your grandchildren and daughter had you OD? I can answer that not only would they have lost you the only stable thing in their life. But their mother would have been eaten alive with guilt turned to drugs lost her kids possibly her life by hen the kids father would have gotten them. He's a drug addict also so it's only a matter of time before he loses them with the possibility of OD. Then they are in foster care!! They pay the price for all of this. Please remember that do what is right for them if you have to get custody then do it. Please think of them before you do anything like this again they need you. I know you meant well by doing this. It's time to start focusing on those grand babies and making sure your there for them and doing things in their best interest. Again I'm not trying to judge or be rude in anyway I just want you to see the bigger picture. That is making sure you do things to keep your grandkids in your care.
Doing stuff like this very much risks their future. Thank goodness you are ok. So many horrible things could of happen here the place could have found out in which cps would have taken them, you could have OD, you could have messed yourself up and became disabled or anything. I'm just asking you put measures into place so you don't have to do stuff like this and you can be there for those kids that didn't ask to be born and deserve a great life.
I know whar you are saying is right :( I wast thinking clearly and would never do that again. I was so ill I cringe at the thought. Sadly though , I would ahve little hope of getting custody. I have been so put down to the welfare by their father, as I tried once before to get legal access visits when they were being kept from me. He hates me as I have put him into the police for domestic violence and called the police a few times when my daughter was getting beaten. Welfare pushed the issue on my behalf but he told them a lot of convincing lies. He is highly manipulative. The lies focussed around my mental health and sadly I was never given the chance to defend them. I told welfare that I would see any psychiatirst of their choice and they were welcome t contact my councillor of 6 years! they did neither. I have a hisltory of depression (due to years of stress over my daughters addiction, followed by 5 years of anxiety over my grandchildren being exposed to severe domestic violence and the obvious emotional problems this casued them. I thought he would kill her one day) because of the depression and anxiety I have had 4 admissions to a mental health hospital in the last 3 years alone. So I would NEVER get my grandchildren. Even though I have been their main support for years and they would be far better off in my care. They adore me andI them. Even though I was so put down to welfare, the children spend a LOT of time with me, when convenient to dad!!!! ie if he is on an ice bender!!!
It is not just their dad that lied and put me down to welfare, Sadly it was my duaghter also - to meet her own agenda. Up until 5 weeks ago, my daughter and both her children (who she has 50/50) were living with me. My daughter and I came to heads a lot over lies and suspected drug use etc........ At times she was telling the truth but one coldnt blame me for not believing her. This caused a lot of tension and she was desperate for her own place. She said she was sick of me interfering and playing detective. I kept saying I shouldnt have to!!! She told welfare that things were really unstable due to MY mental health and we werent good for each otrher and that there was fighting in front of the kids (she didnt tell them why though!!!!) and that she and the children would be better in their own place. That my unstable mental health was bad for the kids!!! She made things out to be really bad at home so welfare would get her own place and finance the bond and some furntiure!!!! Ironcially, I that am "so bad for the kids" have them VERY often on myown to give others a break etc....... very ironic and contradictory. I also take them to school and pick them up every day as neither parent has a car. I was basically cramping her style and she wanted her own space and lied at my expense to get them to support her to get a place. She even admitted it to me when I confronted her, She replie "what was I meant to do, I needed my own place and that was the only way I could get them to help me"
It is hard. My mental health is very fragile due to it all and, although I see a councillor, I cant really say why I get so messed up. I just have to let them think Im a "flip" Councillors etc are mandatory welfare reporters so I can never really open up to get proper help. I have noone to talk to. Sometimes I look at the kids and it really hurts because I think if they were ever taken from mum I know I would never see them again. Dad wouldnt let me (to spite) and welfare thinks I am totally nuts, If they knew the truth of what I go through every day, then they wouldr realise I am far from nuts, that I am having to cope with almost inhuman stress that would send anyone over the edge!!!!!
Although I came to this form for the wrong reason, I am glad I did. I can now vent and get things off my chest. I hope this doesnt upset anyone. There is just noone I can be honest with
Hi again, I'm so glad to see you still posting. It's good that you are getting things off your chest and talking about it. I know it isn't easy to hear such harsh realities from people posting, but you're being honest and accepting the advice, which is GREAT! It's hard to swallow our pride and listen to things that are hard to hear..but that's necessary sometimes to turn a situation around. I would love to see you do that!
The whole situation sounds like a big mess. It IS very sad because the kids are the ones who suffer the most due to the poor choices of their parents, and because their parents (BOTH of them) are not serious about getting clean and turning their life around FOR those kids. I know you think your daughter just goes through rough patches due to the ex, but the truth is, she is making her OWN poor choices as well. No one forces her to turn to drugs when times get tough. If she was serious about her recovery, she would be working harder to stay clean and CERTAINLY not asking you to help her pass her urine tests when she clearly wouldn't. She would recognize that she needs to LEARN how to handle situations as they arise..and handle them without drugs.
I'm very glad to see that you're putting accountability on her as well. She is equally guilty in this situation where the kids are concerned. The bottom line is, I don't how good of a liar her ex is, there ARE facts that could stand on their own merit, and that would be your daughter's recovery attempts for starters...but she isn't even being honest with the very people (the clinic) who are trying to help her.
Your daughter is also making the situation worse by lying about the environment with YOU to get her own way, for selfish reasons, sadly. You could say she's as equally a convincing liar as the ex. They are both adding lies and deceit to this situation, which unfortunately makes child welfare's job very difficult to do. They can only do so much to sort through the nonsense, when everyone is feeding them lies, you know? I know you love your daughter, but don't give her a pass here, and don't put MORE blame on her ex. When it comes to those kids, she is definitely equally responsible for the bad situation they're in. 50/50.
Have you sought any help from organizations like alanon, or naranon? I REALLY think you should. Addiction affects everyone, and you are JUST as sick as your daughter, with the enabling and co-dependency. The things you do that you perceive as "help" for your daughter only allows her to remain in active addiction that mush easier. It's a harsh reality, but once you can accept that and learn how to change your OWN behavior, progress CAN indeed be made. Honestly, you NEED to let your daughter figure things out for herself, with NO help from you. Car or no car, job or no job, you have to stop bailing her out of every situation. Shes a mother, she needs to figure this out for herself. She has a responsibility to do that. And the thing is, once she is forced to do that, when you stop doing things for her, her chances of getting clean and STAYING clean improve exponentially.
You need to worry about YOU, let her worry about HER. No more excuses, no more passes, no more helping her cheat and lie her way out of her own recovery. I know it's the hardest thing in the world to let your daughter fall flat on her face in life, but honest to goodness, THAT would actually help her, not what you've been doing.
Please keep talking to us. Keep posting. We want to see nothing more than everyone in your family to get healthy and well, including YOU! Prayers for you and your family hon.
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