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looking for information please help
I have a son who is addicted to ocycotin, he has been doing 40mg yellow pills, somone gave him a hydromorphine 24mg, I am wondering what does the hydromorphine equal when compared to oxycotin? Any help would be appreciated so i can understand where he is comming from, He says to me he only has to swallow 1/2 of the beeds in the 24mg hydromoprphine to equal a 40mg oxycotin and would only have to do this twice a day, he says the hydromorphine last 12 hours instead of 6 with the oxycotin. He does not inject or crush them, he swallows them whole and does not chew, he just came honest with me when i found these new pills in his room, yes i know i shouldnt search his room but i did. I came to this site as a friend said people here were helpfull and knowledable in stuff like this......."confused mom"
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I really need some help with him, i am not sure if he is lying to me again, he has tried to quit a few times but never seems to work. I booked him to see our doctor but i will be alittle embarresed when i have to tell him whats going on, I tried calling today to see if he could answer the question but he is on holodays for 2 weeks, so i have come here hoping someone can help me understand please.
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271792 tn?1334983257
Hi...

Please be patient, Saturday night is always quiet and you may have to wait a while for responses.

It is great that you are trying to help your son but the reality is that he does not "need" to take anything. One drug is replacing another. He can get clean and come off of the drugs. What exactly is he telling you that he needs them for?
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Thank you for responding, I just learned that a year ago well he was at a party he was introduced to them, and has done them since, he admitted he snorted them at the party but then just started to swallow them "normally" after the party cause he felt sick, he is/was perscribed percocett for pain but i think once the doctor hears this he will loose those i would imagine. I'm not sure what to expect when we see him, or what to say to his "friends", I just dont know what to do, I want to know if he is lying to me again about these grey capsules he calls hydromorphine, the pilll says that and has a 24mg on it, he tells me he is doing it to quit as he only has to slit one once a day and do it twice instead of all the yellow ones he eats,but he has lied to me so many times i dont know if to beleive him, i know bad to say, he also says it will cost him less and will be easier
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271792 tn?1334983257
As addicts, we lie and we steal and we cheat. Trust your gut---I know it sounds harsh but it is reality.

I am not familiar with the particular drug you are talking about but I am positive it is an opiate and that says it all right there. He may have started them for pain but he now takes them to ward off the withdrawal. He needs help.

If you don't mind me asking...how old is he? Does he live with you?
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I dont mind answering any questions, i just want to understand him, your right he says that this one pill will ward of his sickness longer through the day without having to do so many of the other, as for stealing he hasnt yet that i know of, lies well yes there has been a few, he is 19 and yes he lives at home, it has been a weird year he missed alot of school due to flu or colds, which i now know was a lie as he told me he couldnt attend as he was sick from the pills, how can a pill make you so sick, yes i have researched it a bit, but i am an old farm girl, and alittle slower than the city folk....lol....i just dont know anything about these things except what i hear on the news.
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271792 tn?1334983257
Hun, it is not that you are slow...thank Heavens you don't have first hand knowledge as in you being addicted.

Bottom line, he is an addict. Addiction is a disease and I know that is a lot to swallow right now so just know that he is sick. He is sick from a disease from which there is no known cure. However, he can get well and be in "remission" for lack of a better term.

Have you ever heard of tough love? If not, that is where you love him (as you obviously do) but you put your foot down and insist that he he get help. He is living in YOUR home and he needs to be a responsible adult. NO excuses.

If he does not get help now it will get worse. That is a promise. He WILL steal and he will lie. The disease of addiction is progressive, meaning it will take more and more for him to ward off the withdrawal or get "normal". Again, harsh as it sounds---assume that whatever he is telling you, multiply it times five. He is giving you bits and pieces.

I feel so bad saying all of this to you so think about it...do you get up in the morning and take a pill to be normal? That alone says so much.

There is help for him. He CAN get clean and live a productive life but he is going to have to first admit that he has a problem and second---ask for help.

As a mom I know you want the best for him. Are you willing to take a stand to help him?
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Yes i understand tough love but to be honest i lost a son to cancer two years ago, i cant be real hard on him, he does want help and is willing to speak to the doctor when we see him and be honest, he has only asked me to keep an open mind when he speaks to the doctor as some of the things i may not like, not sure what to think yet. As to your question no i do not wake up and need a "pill" to be normal, i am out with the cattle at 5am,, he has almost always been out by 6am till about a couple weeks ago, when he seemed to have been sick more often when it came to chores, or so i beleived. Him getting worst is what i am afraid of, if the flu he has had is anything to come yes i am very afraid, he doesnt weigh much and is realy thin. I will take a stand for him and be the mother I am, I will help him in every way possible, and anyway possible, I just want my son back although i must admitt, i didnt notice anything till lately
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271792 tn?1334983257
I am so very sorry to hear you lost a son. No parent should bury a child. My heart goes out to you and now facing this has got to be difficult.

You can, and will, have your son back. Please do as much reading as you can and ask any questions you may have. As I mentioned, it is very quiet here on Saturday night so check back as other members come on and can give their perspective and advise.

I wish you both the very best and will pray for you. Feel free to post anytime and to message me if you like. I am no expert but will be happy to answer any questions I can.

While taking care of your son, be sure to take care of YOU too.
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Thank-you, I have a favour, i am not very good on the computer, could you help me find something that refers to the two drugs he is talking about? I have found a few on the yellows and what they are and can be and do, i can't find anything on the other one, could you help with that? If not i understand
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1416133 tn?1351126817
Hi goinghomeagain,

If you google "pill identifier" there are websites that can identify pills for you from the information you enter in about them.  Good luck to you - I think you're a great mom - your son is lucky to have you.  And I'm sorry about the loss of your other son.  My prayers are with you.  Like IB said, please make sure you take care of yourself during all of this too.  :)
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968560 tn?1307455098
Hydromorphone is the generic for Dilaudid. As far as I know dilaudid comes in 1mg-4mg tablets, 2mg suppositories and a 10mg vial that is used for terminal cancer when the patient had built up a tolerance for other narcotics. Oxycontin is a slow release tablet, (unless you crush or chew them). Hydromorphone does not come in a slow release formula. By beads I'm assuming the drug he's taking is a capsule again hydromorphone doesn't come in a capsule, so if it is dilaudid it will only last for 4-5 hours not 12. You can go to drugs.com and there's a space to type in the drug that you want information on and it will pull it up. Also there is a drug identification section where you type in the color of the tablet(or capsule) any writing on th pill itself and it will tell you what it is. or you can call the poison control center (the number is in the front of the phone book) and they can tell you what it is. I think your son is lying to you or the person that he's getting the capsules from is lying to him. There isn't  a 24mg hydromorphone tablet, capsule or anything else. Good Luck
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968560 tn?1307455098
Excuse me. There is a slow release formula of hydromorphone. It's called Jurnista, but it's only available in europe. It was taken off the market in the U.S in March/2010. I haven't messed with drugs for over ten years so I wasnt aware of the long acting formula. But hydromorphone is one of the most addictive drugs that can be prescribed. It is usually reserved for kidney stones, gunshots, cancer and normally it is given in the hospital. If your son has gotten hold of some 24mg hydromorphone he really needs to be careful. That amount could very well be fatal. I would call poison control and speak with them about it.
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968560 tn?1307455098
Excuse me again. after further investigation the grey capsule is called hydromorph contin. 24mg Its approx 10 times the strength of morphine. Your son is messing with some bad stuff.. Call the E.R. or poison control
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1235186 tn?1339127464
    i guess you suspected your son was using because you checked his room. even though he is 19 he does live in your house and you love him very much  you are afraid and are very concerned. that is very understandable. it is ok i also used to check my sons room and i also i had search through my husbands things as they both used to be active addicts. i say used to because it is possible for them to be in recovery and not an addict .  my husband has been clean for 15 months and my son has been clean for 2 yrs. you said your son gets perocet for pain from his doctor. if he is mixing a few drugs that is very dangerous. if the doctor knows he is abusing you are right he will cut him off and he will loose his prescription.
     ibkleen didnt say you have to take a pill in the morning. you misunderstood. she meant it in regards to your son needing pills in the morning so he didnt get sick.
     has your son gone to any counseling or therapy. he is also grieving from losing his brother and i am sure that is why he started to use, to numb his pain.
     i would go to the doctors with your son and if your son doesnt tell the doctor about his use you should. your son will be mad, but you will be saving his life. the doctor can suggest a plan to help him.
     also you said your son had alot of colds, that could also be because he was snoring them, even though he said he did it only once. they definitely become very big liars.
     i will pray for you and your son. there is hope so have faith.
blessings to you,
debbie
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Thank-you for your help, I have searched and searched till my fingers hurt almost, I typed in   "hrdromorph contin 24mg grey capsul" and not alot comes up except that the U.S banned it from the shelves, I can't find anything else out about it. Our internet is realy slow as you can imagine, we live out in the country (cattle ranch),so our internet is limited. He woke this morning and took awhile to come down, so i went up, he was sitting there with this grey capsule and these tiny white beads and was spliting them, telling me "See mom I am trying" i had to leave. Yes he is in counceling for his brother, we all are, i did mention it to his phycologist yesterday on his after care number but he said he doesnt handle substance abuse, I will make sure he tells our doctor what has been going on, he has asked after he admitts it, he would like some time alone with the doctor, not sure why but he is an adult, i guess. I found lot on the yellow pill oxycotin 40mg, seems to be a problem in alot of houses, but i need my son back, me and my husband are getting older and realy need him on the ranch doing work, we hope one day he will take it over but not as an addict, i have read some storys and he would sell it all for them, it;s this new one he has that he says he is using so it doesnt cost as much and he only has to use twice a aday, i just dont know if i can trust that or if it;s a lie, i cant find much on it except it starts at 2mg and goes to 30mg, 24mg being the second highest, but when i type it in it keeps giving me diluda or something like that,,,,please help anyone
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My son has come clean and said he has been doing it since that party a year ago and he was doing a few of the yellow 40mg oxycotin pills, he has said that some of the colds were infact he  was sick because he had none. I am just glad we lock up the medication for the cattle as we have some pain meds for them, that would kill him. I just want and need my son back, i dont feel bad i searched his room, and i have told him i will each time i think there is a lie or something up, He is out now in the feild but doesnt seem to have the same excitement he had for the ranch, that worries me, i dont want to loose both my boys.....i wish i could find more on those capsuls and if he is lying and truly trying or is it just something new
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Your right that is what the capsul says, my son says it is equal to an 80mg oxycotin or something like that, and he splits it so he is only doing 1/2 once in the morning and once in the evening, i just dont know it sounds bad but i dont know if to beleive him any more. I called the Emergenct room and all i could get was that they cant give advice on the phone, if i feel he is in distress i could bring him in but the doctor wont do anything for his addiction, she wasnt much help
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1530493 tn?1410060236
Hi...I'm so sorry for your broken heart.  I too have a son (21) an iv heroin addict.....I know the pain.  My son has been an addict for approx 6 years, starting with hydros, progressing to iv heroin.  His last 2 years ...his(our) worst.  
I turned a blind eye to it for awhile...hoping it was a phase...maybe it would go away ????
Of course it didn't...because I was very ignorant to addiction....I too didn't know where to start.  Med Help, right here, was were I began....they are/were my rock, my base.  I was given great advice, they taught me, and most importantly...I myself, never felt alone, which I believe is the hardest on a parent.  
This is a rough road, but doable.  You need to arm yourself, with all you can.  I did as much research as I could, but research alone is not enough, our biggest challenge....was trying to find him help.  I went against my sons wishes, and took all the information to his doctor....told his doctor everything I knew.  Once having his doctor behind me, I was able to convince my son to see his doctor.  My son couldn't admit to his life long doctor, what he was up to....rather than face him....he stayed with the drugs, just  to get by.  When EVERYTHING, was out in the "open", not only with me, but with his doctor.....was progress made.  We, I say we...he will never be in this alone, has had a few relapses, but is now able to come to me & or his doctor, with all honesty.  He is now in treatment, based on his needs and doing good.  I have learned not to let my guard down....probably never will with him, but at least for now....there is peace in our lives.  I know he is no longer shooting heroin, and my fear of him od-ing has become less.
As someone said above...yes if he is telling you some of whats going on with him....X's it by 5....is correct.  What I knew about his addiction, was ONLY what he wanted me to know, so much more came out with time.
Take Care of Your Self
Prayers to You and Your Family
There IS Hope
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Thank-you for your support, He has opened up to me more and more with each day over the last couple, we were always close, I just dont know if to beleive him when he says these new grey capsuls will bring him down to one a day used twice a day, he swear there are no needles and i checked his room again and he showed me his arms and legs, no marks, he said he used to do 8 yellows a day, and his hope is doing i of those grey ones a day will help him, it just keeps him from being sick so he can do his farm chores, and that he hopes he can quit from there, i just dont know if it's true, and i have never doubted my son before, and it hurts that i do... i tried to research it, but i cant find alot on it to back up what he is saying, that i grey one equals 2 yellow ones and this will help, i searched and searched last night, i cant find anything to support what he says or discredit it, this would have killed his father if the heart attack didnt, i just dont know what to beleive anymore, and we cant see the doctor for 2 weeks
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1530493 tn?1410060236
This is only my thoughts, I'm sure others that have been in his shoes, can tell you more on that subject.....
But for my son, he also tried to do the same.... basically, it only kept him from being sick, (not WDing.)  
Still addicted.  
I have to go to work, but will check in later... I want you to know, I'm here, if only one parent to another....it helps, knowing your not alone :)
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271792 tn?1334983257
I am glad you are still here and still looking for help for your son.

The fact still remains he is addicted to opiates and it doesn't matter what he takes---gray, yellow, blue, whatever...all he is doing is keeping from going through the withdrawal. Unless there is some underlying medical condition that you are not aware of, detox will not kill him. He will go through 5 or so days of having flu-like symptoms and the physical part will be over. At some point he is going to do that and since he is on a lower dose now, as he says, this is the best time to get it over with. All of the members here are at some stage of detox, pre-detox or post-detox and we can share with you our experiences and tips on home remedies.

Do you think the both of you are ready to take that step and get through this?
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1331115 tn?1401672466
Hi, you asked for info on hydromorphone contin you can get the info at the link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydromorphone

Hydromorphone is a very powerful narcotic and if your son is taking it to not get sick that is only going to work for a short while. He will eventually need more as his brain gets use to it. I completely empathize if he is self-medicating himself because of grief but that is not the answer. Your son either needs to quit C/T or get into a detox center. He is playing with some very dangerous drugs. You should try to steer him to this forum and get him to see he needs counseling. As IBKleen has said detox and/or w/d will not kill him he will just feel like he has a bad flu (providing he doesn't have any underlying medical conditions). W/D is not easy but it is doable alot of us here are living proof it can be done

I urge you to get him some help now before he gets worse. You stated he gets percs from a doctor for pain. What type of pain does he have? There are many alternative pain relief methods that don't use opiates. Sit him down and both of you come to this forum as there is a wealth of knowledge and help here. I will pray for both of you and ask God to give you the guidance you both need. God Bless---Rick
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We sat down and talked,he was mad that i went to the internet and spoke to people but as i told him they do not know who he is nor will they, i needed to talk to someone for me and to see if what he was telling was the truth, he asked me if he was, I had to tell him i did not know as i can not find anything that relates the two, just that the grey capsul thing is strong, although he says it does not get him high at all only keeps him from being sick. I did tell him what you have said that he will eventually have to be sick, i took the truck keys away, and the bank and credit cards,He says that he tried to quit once before and he was so sick that he realy thought he would die, He informed me he went 2 days with out anything and he said he could not sleep, nor eat, or get out of bed his legs were so sore he wanted to rip them off he said. As to the question of  am I ready, no, i dont know if i am strong enough but what has to be done has to be done, I also have a ranch i have to keep going, yes i have hired hands, but i dont want them knowing anything, and as of this morning had to let one go as he was suppling my son, i don't understand any of this, why him, and no i dont mean anyone elses child is less important, but we have been through enough in the last couple years, to add this now. He says that it says online that cold turkey is dangerous, and showed me sites saying so, so i am realy confused as i found sites that say it is rough but not life threatening then he shows me sites that dont recomend it. I called the closest addiction centre but they were closes, i callled my girlfriend who volonteers at one and she said the average wait can be from 2-5 months, i cant continue with this for that long, i am not sleeping as i am worrying about him. He says he has a plan but i dont know, what i read says those capsules are dangerous. Im thankfull for all your support and any home remidies you speek of would be great, or tell me wha i need to buy. I did call thr detox in two cities and both were full, they said if a bed opens up they can call, but then i have a time frame to get him there, so at home maybe the best, so please any help, advise, or home remedies, i dont care if it's witch craft...lol...as long as it helps and can get him off of these pills would be appreciated. I have had all the narcot meds we have for cattle moved to the ranch next to me, as they are friends and he said he would help with my cattle for awhile well i deal with my son, so please help with anything,,,,thank-you, and how long will he be sick, he is saying acouple weeks, is this true?
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968560 tn?1307455098
Type in Wikipedia when it comes up click on the wikipedia search site. When that comes up there will be a search box. Type in Hydromorph contin. it will give you all sorts of information. and it will give you other sites you can go to for more specific information. If he is taking it in the morning to keep from getting sick he is already a full blown addict. He will need more and more to achieve the same effect. Unfortunatly the part of your brain that controls heartbeat and respiration do not become used to more and more. when you reach a certain level of the drug in your bloodstream you will just stop breathing and your heart will stop. There are all sorts of stories of people sitting up in bed taking some of the drug and when someone found them they were still sitting upright,dead. I'm not trying to scare you but you shouldnt care what the Dr. thinks about your sons addiction, he really needs to quit even if it means a 90 day inpatient detox. Where in the world is he getting thos things anyway?
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1331115 tn?1401672466
I went through C/T with w/d lasting about 5-7 days it was uncomfortable but not life threating. I was on a high dose of oxy 240 mg/day (3 80 mgs/day) and 10 mgs percs 3X/day for breakthrough pain for 7 years and I made through. Like I said before have him go to his doctor and tell him that he wants to get clean and he may help. At least he will do a physical exam to make sure he is healthy enough to go through detox. Only he can do it your son needs to want to get clean you can't make him. If he is going on the internet and trying to find reasons why he can't quit then I would say he is not ready to quit. I don't mean to sound harsh but it is just the reality of addiction.

When he is ready to quit you can try the Thomas Recipe and/or the Amino Acid Protocol which can be found on the health pages of this forum. I used both and they did ease some of the w/d symptoms but he will still feel like he has a bad flu. Make sure he stays hydrated (juices, water etc;) as it will also help him flush the toxins out of his system. Make sure he takes a good multivitamin, B-12, B-6, C, magnesium and potassium. For the rest leg thing there is an over the counter remedy Hylands RLS.  Again he will feel sick for a few days but thats about it. Make sure he gets some exercise as it helps speed up his metabolism hence his recovery time. I wish you both luck and I will pray for you both. God Bless---Rick
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If you want to find more about those grey capsules, go to DRUGS.COM you can type in exactly what shape ,color, and any numbers or letters that are on them, and it will give u everything you need to know about that drug. Another thing, an addict sometimes needs to be ready to quit, and really want to quit themselves for them to actually do it. It is good that he came clean to you, and is willing to see a doctor. That's a step in the right direction. He is going to need all the support he can get. especially during the first few weeks. he will be sick, and It is a horrible feeling. the worst feeling i have ever felt in my life. I would take the worst kind of flu in the world over the feeling of withdrawl from opiates. I swear to you I would rather go through labor again than go through withdrawls. it is a HARD thing to do, but not impossible. just stick to your guns, but definitly give him LOTS of support and understanding. that will help him , and is so important to have. he is lucky to have a mother like you to help him with this. I had no one, and i wish i did. I think it would have made things so much easier knowing that someone cared and was willing to help me through it. good luck, I wish you and your son the best. Just remember, this is going to be one of the hardest things he and you will ever go through. But if you get through it, both of you will have a much better life, and relationship.
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One more thing, you may want to encourage him to come on this forum. It has been really helpful for me to talk with people who know first hand what you are going through. Like I said support is one of the key things to get through this!
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Sorry it took so long to get back to everyone, have chores that needed done, he did okay today, but he is saying now the grey capsuls dont work, and asked me for money, I did refuse, however he stated i dont understand what he is going through,I didnt break down, i stayed firm as much as it hurt me, he looks so bad, not himself at all,very pale. I know i need to help him but that means i need to be with him for 5 days and i have a cattle ranch to run since my husbands death, and the gentleman i had to fire this morning (that is addicted and was selling to my son) it is more work for me,i dont hnestly know if i can take 5 days, i know sounds selfish buti have to keep the ranch going. I just dont understand where my little boy went, i need and want him back. All of your words mean alot to me and are opening my eyes, i thank you so much.  I have read up on both drugs but its seems chinese to me, i dont understand alot of what id being said (written), i will ask the doctorin 2 weeks, if i make it that long. I notice he is moody, not agressive or anything like that but short in conversations, simple answers, when we used to talk for hours at one time, it just sadens me, thank you for listening
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1331115 tn?1401672466
I know that it is tough for you, but I promise you you are doing the right thing. Your young man will come back once the hold of addiction releases him. Does he still have pills? If he does and honestly wants to taper to get off of them then you should hold the pills and put him on a strict taper routine. As I stated before there will come a time when the gray pills won't be enough anymore; I think he has reached that time if he is telling you they are not working. How much was he taking throughout the day? Because if he is going to taper down he should only take enough to be not to be in w/d. Personally, I think going C/T would work better for him as he can just get it over with. Have you asked him to come on this forum and look around. I think it would do him a world of good if he does. If he would like he can message me and I will help him through this. Again I know your heart is aching but you are doing the right thing and he will thank you when it is all over. But remember one thing YOU can't make him stop he has to want to. I will pray that God shows him the way and gives you both the strenght to make it through this. God Bless---Rick
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Thank-you for your advise, I do not know what C/T means though. We had a good talk last night i showed him what all of you have said to me and the advice I have been given. He understands he will have to quit, he has told me that the withdrawls are worst than what people are telling me. I asked if he had anymore pills and he said he has 10 of the grey capsuls, He explained that the grey capsuls are stronger than the yellow pills and he should only have to do them onc in the am and once at bed, but also says that he did a half a one yesterday and was still sick an hour later, So he said he tried a whole one at bed and was oky, He is scared, i can see it and he has told me, I guess the problem is serious in this small town, he listed several of his friends who do these as well as some of the parents, I dont know if to beleive that or not, as some of the people he is speaking about are friends of mine and have been for a long time, He is sick again this morning, and yes he gave me the pills so i gave him one, and asked that he do what he said he was going to do and make it last the day, he is telling me he doesnt know why but for some reason the grey capsule dont seem to work at all.and he supposedly just got them yesterday or Sat.. I will stick to my guns, and pointed out to him that what he has will only last 4 days nowm and then he will have to go with ouy. He keeps saying how i dont understand, and i agree i don't but i dont want him doing these, As i said earlier he has spoke to me and says the most he does is "snort" his pills, and has swore to me that he has never used a needle and has never touched the cattle meds, which is good that could have killed him. He has agreed to talk to the doctor but d=says all he will do is "flag his file" whatever that maybe. I called the locsl Hospitsl they say the grey capsules are very much stronger than the yellow ones he was doing, but they can not help addicts, unlrdd it is medical emergancy, I talked him into going on last night to read some diffrent posts online but most of them said he is wasting the grey capsul unless he used a needle, and i dont want that. I did speak to the hired ranch hands and asked that next week, they may have to do alittle more so i can deal with my son, they understood and agreed to do some of my chores and his in exchange for extra holidays. I just want to know why he says they dont work for him, he says he gets a "nod" whatever that is but still feels sick, and i wont give him money to go get what he wants, One of his friends called last night, i know it's wrong but i picked up the phone and listened for a moment and heard our neighbours kid offering him "greens" till he gets money. I informed him not to be oN ranch property or i would tell his parents, this made my son mad, and again told me i dont undrerstand how sick he will be, and i dont except i have been told it will be like the flu, and we have all lived through that at least more than once, As i have said i just want my little guy back, without him hateing me, He knows i am serious about this all, and he can taper or whatever but he will have to come to terms with it at some point, why not now...thank-you all for the support I appreciate this, i know i am probably the least knowledable person when it comes to drugs, but have learned alot so far from this site, thank you all
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271792 tn?1334983257
I know this is all so hard for you but I really think you need to look at the big picture. Basically, you are giving him illegal drugs to keep him from getting "sick". The drugs were bought on the street---do you honestly know what is in them? That is very dangerous.

Has your son ever had a bad cold or the flu? That is what withdrawal is like. That's it. Not that it is not horrible, it is very uncomfortable but not anywhere near what he is telling you. This web site has been here some 17 years and there are thousands upon thousands of people who have posted here. I never heard of anyone dying from withdrawal. I have heard of people dying from using drugs.

The most common of overdoses are accidental. Just as your son is telling you that the gray capsules aren't working, his body (and mind) are becoming more and more accustomed to the drug and he requires more and more to get "un-sick", therefore he is a candidate for an overdose. What will you do in 5 days when the ten capsules run out?

You can't keep him locked up on the ranch forever and if drugs are that easily assessable, take care of the problem now. He needs help----professional help to get off and stay off.

I know you have a whole lot on your plate right now and this has got to be devastating. I also know you want to believe him, but it is the drugs talking---not your son. You can't believe everything he is telling you.

I am praying for you both and so hope this all works out. Please keep posting and let us know you are both okay.
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968560 tn?1307455098
Your son is telling the truth. After you become addicted your body needs the drug to function. When you stop the drug you start to have flu like symptoms. You take some of the drug and the symptoms go away. That is how methadone maintence works. The goal of methadone is not to get a person off drugs it is to give them drugs so they can lead a normal life. people on methadone can take up to 100mg of the drug and will be perfectly normal. If you or I took that amount it could kill us. When your son quits using the drugs he will feel bad physically for a couple of weeks, but the mental cravings can last much much longer. He will lose intrest in everything because he wont get any pleasure in normal activities  anymore. Slowly he will regain his normal life and will enjoy activities that he used to like to do.But it takes time, no way you can make it happen any faster. He just has to stick it out.  The mental effects are, Depression, anger, sadness a whole gambit of symptoms. Quitting is hard. The only options are quit completly or find a methadone maintence program where they will dose him every day. Methadone will last for 24 hours. But the maintence programs are usually in large cities. So you could call around and find the closest one. The best thing is just to get off of it completely. Sorry, but as of now there isnt any magic bullets to achieve sobriety.  Good Luck
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the reason ur son will have flu like symptoms is because the pain med.gives us dopamene which gives a pleasure. when he stops his body will then have to make dopamene on its own it takes a while for this to happen. thats why we feel depressed no dopamene. it takes months to return to normal but he will. do not trade one addictoin for another with methadone. he  will have to come off that too. i quit ct it was nt easy but i didnt die. i went to na for support which is helpful.good luck and give it time. dove
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I appreciate all of your responses, I understand at some point he will have to go through this, he is asking that i give him one of these grey capsules a day till they run out in 4 days now, and then he will go through the withdrawls, If it is only like the flu then not much to worry about, i can make hot toddies and such to help with that,He says the withdrawls are much worst than having the flu, he words it that it is like having the flu x10, and nothing i can give him will help. He has said he will move into the apt in the basement well he is going through it as to not say something to me he doesnt mean. He seems sincere when he talks to me, but then i read what you people have sentme andi think it is just the drugs talking, he tells me he is getting down to 1 grey capsule a day so that when he does quit it wont be as severe as if he was using like he used to. I do trust the things you all write me and i appreciate all the advise,but on the other hand is all he is saying tome a lie, or is there some truth to what he says, its like he says i don't know, I can tell you how to milk a cow, brand a steer, even build a barn, bake pies, saddle a horse, but i know nothing of addiction, I have done alot of reading on the computer but some of it i honestly dont understand, i only have a grade 6 education, i married young, and then worked the ranch,i have lawyers to do all my legal items, and the hired ranch hands help with something i may not understand, but when it come to addiction, it has been the people here who have all responded to me eho have helped me understand about it. Is everything my son tells me a lie. We talked alittle bit this morning, he admitted that the grey capsules don't do for him what he would like, and they dont take all the sickness away but they do releive some of the pains. He tells me that his friend went through it and it lasted 4 days, but took him 2 weeks to get back to work on his families farm, that he just didnt have any energy. My son actualy apologized this morning to me and said he was sorry he hasnt been able to pull his weight on the ranch or in the house, he admitted that the pills help him forget about his dad and his brother,  i explained i think of them daily and what they would want with the ranch and that they would not want us to loose it that in the will it is left to him, all 900 head and the land, but not if he is addicted.  In one of the responses someone mentioned trading a drug called methadone for what he does, i would prefer he did nothing illegal. I have as i said read alot and i cant find anything that says that quiting will kill him, some say they wish they were dead when they were going through it, that scares me alittle, He has told me that his tolerance has come down that he has done that on his own by doing 1/2 of one of these capsules, and the reason he is doing it is because he does want to quit but doesnt want to feel like he did before. I didnt know he tried to quit before as i said i know he has had the flu a few times, i thought once it was phemonia, he has admitted that he was withdrawing those times. I suggested we go to the hospital but he says that they dont and wont do anything for addiction except to say what you people have been saying, i did show him what has been said, all he could say is alot of you were right in what you are saying, and he was surprised i found a place to talk to other people about this, as he knows i am not on the computer very often. Can someone tell me what to expect when he quits, is he telling the truth that the dose is low enough that he wont be that sick? what happens over the 4 days he is saying, or the 7 days someone else has said? and what can i do each day to help him, i dont imagine a mustard plaster will work, will hot toddies work? Please help me, i need to know how to help my son well he goes through this, Sorry for being gone for awhile, my son came and asked if he could move into the fith wheel well he does this as not to be in the house as he doesnt want me to see him all the time he is afraid he will get mad at me for not giving him his truck keys or the bank or credit cards, he says i should get lots of fruit, ice cream, cereal, milk and chips as he says he wont be able to eat alot and will only want to munch, i am not sure if i beleive this it sounds like a party by himself, can he not eat the meals i cook each day? He has also said that there may be moments when he may feel better for an hour or so and can do a few chores in that time if he feels better enough to do that, is this true or is he going to be sick each day all day. He also said that his legs and arms will spasm as they did the last time he tried, is this correct and if so is there anything i can give him to help? I know it sounds bad i dont beleive all he is saying but a few people have said he will lie, and unfortunately i dont beleive alot of what he says now. I appreciate al of your help, with out you guys i would be realy lost, i probably would have given him any amount of money he wanted for whatever. I also took the keys for the dirt bike and 4 wheeler and tractor away, and when his friends have called instead of being rude like i wanted to i said he was sick and would return there calls in a few days.
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1416133 tn?1351126817
Oh my I'm so sorry you have to go through all of this.  I can't even begin to imagine how frightened you must be.  And it's hard to hear the cold hard facts about addiction - especially to those who didn't have to deal with it before.  It can be heartbreaking I know.

And everyone's right - right now your son is probably telling you everything you want to hear - while manipulating you to do what he wants.  He's telling you what kind of food he needs?  Well, what he really needs is a healthy diet right now, not junk food.  I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have some snacks around, but to cater to him now for every whim would be a mistake in my book.  The more you do for him the more he's going to demand certain things.  And because he still hasn't given up the drugs entirely, he's not into full blown withdrawal yet and that can be pretty messy so it's important to have a good support system for YOU right now - you can help him through this but YOU have to have someone close to you that can support your needs during this time.  That's really important okay?

And not sure how your farm is set up - where the apartment you mentioned is located and it's proximity to where you physically reside - I ask this because this would be the perfect place for him to have his drugs brought to him without your knowledge.  It's nice that he says he doesn't want to be "mean" to you during this time - but I'm an addict and I know how we think.  What he's truly saying is I don't want to have to answer to you while I'm attempting to use behind your back.  I'm sorry, I know that's blunt.  But for the time being, you have to assume that everything coming out of his mouth right now is a lie.  He might be able to put on a good show for your benefit, so be really careful with that okay?  Addicts are MASTER manipulators - seems to go with the territory.  You learn early on in your addiction exactly what others want to hear and learn how to play that game very well to get what you want.  So please, continue to keep your guard UP.

I would feel a lot more comfortable about your situation if you had someone close to you to be there for you for the rough moments that are bound to come up after he's quit and loses all access to the drugs.  Is there someone like that you trust enough to do this with you?
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1235186 tn?1339127464
c/t means cold turkey. that means to just stop the pills without reducing the dose, either way if he does do it cold turkey or reduce the dose he will get sick. his body and mind will crave and need the drugs it is used to. he will get very achy, have spasms in his legs (restless leg syndrome), have diarrhea, maybe vomit, not beable to sleep, no energy, be angry, his skin might feel itchy. he will have to drink alot, gatorade, juices, water. he wont feel like eating especially what he told you to get. maybe something light soup or crackers. he can take hot showers and baths with epsom salt for the aches and pains, vitamins to help rebuild his body, immodium for the diarrhea, there is no exact time he will feel sick and yes some days will be better than others. but within 2 weeks he should be much better physically. then the mental part which includes depression and anxiety will take over. he will need alot of support, he will need to see the therapist he sees more, are they aware of his drug use? find drug counselors, narcotics/alcohol anonomyous, do you have a pastor he can talk to and go to church. it is very hard for an addict to stay clean by themselves. they need lots of support. i know all of this is very overwhelming and you are trying to believe your son which is what we do to love ones, does he want to be free of drugs or do you want it for him. he has to really, really want it or he will fail. you cant lock him up as a prisoner. he needs to stop seeing everyone who does drugs, he needs to change the people,places and things that he did while using. grief is very hard thing to deal with and losing both a dad and brother and he is so young. but mom let me tell you there is hope. please dont let him fool you, they become very deceitful and cunning during their
use and will beg,plead and steal. please try to be strong. because if he continues to use there is a very good chance he could overdose and die.
blessings to you
debbie
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The aptartment is in the basement and has it's own bathroom and kitchen, and the 5th wheel is parked beside the house. I have a lready advised the hired hands to keep everyone who does not belong on the ranch to be off the ranch, Dave my one hired hand has agreed to spend the nights at the house, he is only a friend, just incase he gets out ofline i have someone to protect me, although i dont think he would hurt me but Dave said he had a cousin go through withdrawl and they got violent, that scares me as he is never violent. So what should i grab him to eat, I know when he had the flu before, or what i thought was the flu all he ate was chips, oranges, banannas, icecream, crackers and such like that and his cereal, lots of cereal. Soi thought when he asked for that stuff that is why, Is giving him a hot toddie okay to help with fevers and body aches? You say 2 weeks, wow, i thought by what i have read it is only like 4 or 5 days that he would be sick. he says that he is trying to lower the dose of opiods if spelled right as it will make it easier for him to quit, yes he wants to quit, he knows that if he doesnt i will not will the ranch to him, and any money will be placed in trust till he does quit, I have given him a reason to quit, and yyour right he has to want to quit but i thought if i gave him a goal it might help. I just dont know what to expect, the internet says 4-5 days, some say 7 some say 2 weeks, I dont know what i can do to help him through this, I spoke to him more, he would like the trailer so if he gets mad he can yell and not disturb me, there is no phone there andi have his cell phone and wow the text messages he is getting are bad, it seems alot of people want him to use, willing to share with him, i didnt answer them, but when the house phone rings or the cell, i tell them he has the flu and will return calls when he is feeling better, to keep him away from those that use, we live in the country the nearest neighbour is a very far away, 18-22 acres. As i have said the hired hands have been told no company on the ranch for a week or so except there family which i have always allowed, they are going to buy signs for private properrty, and then state no visitors at this time please, they are confused, but i dont know if i should fill them in on what is going on and yet to come, they were shocked when i fired the one for selling drugs to my son and using drugs well on the job, and i only know about that because he admitted to using with my son during the day, so he had to go, i am sure i will have reprocusions from the labour board or someone at some time, just adding to my problems. So can one of you tell me what i can do each day to help him besides encouragement, I have agreed to the trailer so long as i can put a two way in so i can listen whenever i wwant to, he has agreed to this, so i have dave moving the trailer alittle closer to the house and wiring in an intercome system, i will need to pick up food for him, what should i get for him to eat besides what i cook, and should i take him with me to town? I learned today his girlfriend uses, so i dont know how to deal with this, he has asked if she can come and detox with him,  i dont know if i should allow it, she is a nice girl, i already told him i was going to think about it, and ask my new friends what they thought but her bag would be searched, and if i find out later that they are using she will be out quick andnever welcomed back, He tellsme that she has wanted him to stop for along time with her but he kept saying no, I have asked him wy he wants to quit, he said some of it is because of the will, and he wants to be back to his oldself and show me he can do it, but would like to do it with her, his thing to me is that it will help build there relationship. I dont know what to think, I know my husband if he had been alive this would have killed him, but i also know he would have allowed him to have her here well going through this, but he would have been knocking on the trailer every minute on the minute, i figure the intercome is easier i can listen in when i need to just incase something goes wrong, i read a site this morning that says not do to cold turkey as it can cause seizures, breathing problems, and heart problems, some one sent me a messaage tellingme to put a liner on the mattress or it will be ruined when he is done from sweat, is this true?I know i ask alot, but i realy want to know what to expect for him, and what can i do for him if anything, if it is not the real flu then mustard plaster wont work, but a hot toddie might, I called the closest detox to us and the further one both are full but i can call every hour to see if a bed opens up, but they want me to go to the hospital and get something called protocal for him before bringing him, i called the hospital and the nurse said that protocal is up to the doctor if he wants to or not. and what is protocall? I am scared, i am not sure what to excpect, i know he did half roughly of the pellets in the capsule and he is out working , draginghis feet but working, i didnt give him alot to do today, just fix one fence, and clean the barn, i just realy dont know what to do with him and the things he is asking, do i buy those things, do i let the girlfriend come, they have been together for 3 years now? Do i tell the hired hands? do i clear our schedule for the week or for two weeks? what can i do for him? do i let him continue with these capsuls or not? they have these little beads inside, i dont even thow that they are, the drug is n the ball i would imagine, should i count each bead and devide them? should i devide them in 1/2 like he wants or into 1/3 and throw 1 1/3 away.? so the food he is asking for is not good fot him during his withdrawls? What can i do or not do to help him? i dont want to add to his problems or be a problem, i want to be a mother and his friend like we used to be, we used to talk all the time, over the last while it has only been taking the tractor or truck or bike be back soon, over the last couple days it seems he has made an effort to come talk to me about this and other things, almost lik we used to. He said the capsul wasnt working, but today he didnt say anything about it, and today he is actualy out doing things, i am watching make sure no one shows up, or out with my broom i will go, I appreciate all your help and advise and hope we can continue to talk about him and after he quits also, you have all been a stone for me,without any of you knowing and i appreciate it
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271792 tn?1334983257
People are very different when it comes to eating during the detox phase. He may want soup---toast---or he may crave sugar. Or he may want nothing at all. Try and make certain that he stays hydrated (very important) and try and get him to eat something. He can take Motrin for the body aches and lots of hot baths to help soothe his muscles. Imodium works great for any tummy issues. Try and get him to exercise, even if it is just a short walk. It really does help.

It is just my opinion, but the girlfriend is a bad idea. One person detoxing is enough and so many things could happen. I think you are best to stick with the task at hand.

When the physical is all said and done, he is going to need help to STAY clean. It seems to be all around him. His behavior needs to change and so do his "friends". He has a lot of work ahead of him and he will need to want to make changes in his life.

Make sure you take care of yourself during this time. I know you are stressed and that can cause all sorts of problems in your health.

Keep talking. Someone is always around to help you.
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1416133 tn?1351126817
I don't happen to think it's a good idea to have his girlfriend with him during this time.  You are going to have your hands full enough dealing with his recovery and now he wants you to do the same for his girlfriend?  I get it, he's scared and doesn't want to do this alone.  But I have never seen a situation where they recommend you go through detox with the person you abused with - not once.  So while it's great that you are considering it, since you are obviously a very caring a loving mother, I wouldn't do it.  Remember, he needs your help now so don't let HIM call the shots here.  Trust your instincts as far as caring for him so don't lose sight of those instincts.

Comfort food is best during the time - stuff like roasted chicken, mashed potatoes, fresh veggies and fruit, basically bland stuff for a while.  I don't think it hurts to have some snacks in the house, but overall his diet should be a healthy one.

And it's wonderful that you have help on the ranch with your employees.  And it wouldn't hurt to have his Dr. on board with this whole thing too - that will give you someone "live" to talk to if something comes up and you're not sure how to handle it.  And I wouldn't spend too much time trying to figure out the specifics about the drug he's taking.  He said he was going to do 1/2 morning and 1/2 at night of those grey capsules for the next three days so just keep doing that.  And then he STOPS on the 4th day right?  Because remember, there's a good chance that he's going to try to talk you into getting more once he gets to the last day so you'll need to stay firm with him on that.  But NOT without using that support you have on hand on the ranch.  He says he really wants to quit so that's a good thing - I'm just giving you some insight on things you might not be expecting in case they occur.  The physical side of withdrawal is different for everyone and that's why you're finding conflicting info on that.  There's no way to determine how long it will last for him so just take that one day at a time.  That's all you can do for now.  :)
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1331115 tn?1401672466
IBKleen & ImDONE have given you great advice. Just remember do not let him maniplutate you into getting more drugs at the end of the 4 day taper. He should be preparing himself for w/d (withdrawl) symptoms (sorry for using shorthand). Even though he tapers down he will still feel some w/d symptoms so you and he needs to be prepared for it. As ImDONE has said everyone's different so it's hard to predict how bad w/d will be. You are doing a truly wonderful thing for your son and eventually he will realize it. As far as having his girlfriend with both of them detoxing I think that it's a bad idea. I will pray for you both and ask God to give you both the strenght and fortitude to make it through all of this. God Bless---Rick
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Hi!   Oh boy,you really have your hands full!!    Let's get right to it:

No on the girlfriend,it's a bad idea. Your son knows you're naive about all this and I also feel he may manipulate you.  But you are smarter than you think, just instinctively!

During detox,which,will take about 4-5 days, he needs to be well hydrated and well fed;including vitamins and minerals.  Get juices and gatorade,he'll need plenty of water,he'll need protein shakes and protein bars,vegetables and fruit. No carb loaded things
because this is NOT a party!

Get some Immodium for diarreah,Advil or Motrin,Hylands Restful legs for crampy,restless legs. Anything with alcohol in it will make him feel worse!

Opiate withdrawal is unpleasant but rarely deadly in an otherwise healthy person.  I think it's a wonderful idea to have Dave stay with you. I'd also keep you son in the house,mostly because of the bathroom issues. He'll need the BR quite a bit!

The problems don't end with the detox. He's going to need recovery support but more about that after you get through this.  I'll tell you though: if he really wanted to quit he'd start today!  Not when he's out of pills. I think it's a stalling technique on his part!  We have all been there and are very convincing little liars!  Tell him you have a farm to run and don't have time for his BS!!  He needs to man up and get this done starting now!!

I sure feel for you ...let us know how it's going!!
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Well, what a day, I took what you all said and talked to him, simple question first, when you say carbs do you mean like pasta and stuff like that? Dave had agreed to stay in the house to deal with the little things when and if i get to frustrated, he went through something like this his daughter was on heroin she wouldnt get off so he kicked her out. This is what he has told me and has agreed ontop of his other duties help deal with my son.
  Now onto the part of my day that *****, supposedly his girlfriend can not detox at home cause her dad is addicted to them and he tells me it will be imposible for her to quit with him using them, and that he doesnt want to do this alone or do it and not have a girlfriend anymore cause she is using. He has agreed to drop all his friends that use, he has agreed to let me have the doctor pee test him at anytime i want it done as well as her, he has agreed that she will not be in the way, nor will she cause me nor the ranch any problems, he has even agreed that starting tomorrow morning he will not do anymore pills nor will she if i agree to this, i can flush the last 4 down the drain, He has agreed to talk to the doctor and explain everything and the truth. I have not agreed to anything but i can see his point about her dad, i have met the man and well he is an ashle, to be nice, i know not lady like sorry but he is that, soi do feel for her. He has asked for the trailer which has plumbing,a/c 3 pull outs, and all. he says it is because he doesnt want to say anything well in a bad mood that might upset me, and doesnt want me to see him in the shape he will be in. I ran this by Dave and he said to run it by you guys as you are addicts or ex addicts. He didnt deal with his daughter proper he said and doesnt want me to make the same mistakes, I picked up immodium, and vitamins, but couldnt find the restless leg thing, i also got tylenol. So hot toddies are out of the question? someone said alchol was no good or would make him feel worst. I asked him why the chips and such and he said cause it's comfort food, food he can munch on when he feels like eating but nothing big, i dont understand that an do at the same time, when i am sick i like certain things although i dont have time to be sick not now. I really need some help with the girlfriend thing, i can see his point and yours, and am tossed between the two, dave as said he didnt care either way neither will get away with anything that interfers with the ranch or with me or my health, he also suggest i do let the ranch hands know whats going on within reason so they know not to let them leave or have anyone over. I have a cleaning lady who is willing to clean the trailer every other day for a small extra fee her only stipulation was they cant be in there she doesnt want to deal with him or them. I again called the hospital which is 35 mins-an hour away and they said the same thing depends on the doctor if he gets this protocal thing, but dont count on it. I told him it sounds like he is making demands and that wasnt liked, he said his only request is he doesnt want to loose her and if she isnt clean then he will, they met when neither used and he would like them to be together when he is sober, i just dont know what to do, dave has been a huge help and no there is nothing between us except he has been on the ranch since we started he was just a kid, so he cares about us and the ranch, i know his opinion and i know yours before he told me why, so i have told you, i could use your advise now with the new factsm as for the trailer or house, i would prefer the trailer after what he has said, dave ran an intercome, and i can hear everthing clear, and he hid it so they don't know or wont find it,  dave suggested a camera but i dont know about that, that seems alittle extream, any thoughts on that, i just gave him his last and he is in a fine mood, and has been all day on just the half this morn, but he says he will start tomorrrow if i agree or it will be three days now if not, but he will do it either way, he says her here will be less stress for him and he will have someone to talk to that can understand what he feels and thinks as she will be there also, from what he says is she does 2 yellow 40mg oxydoctins or something like that, he says it is equal to what he is doing, dave has searched the trailer already and removed anything that could harm him, and didnt find anything hidden, and it has been locked till he is ready to go in, dave suggest that he be searched and his bag of cloths before he enters the trailer and then the trailer everyday he is in there, the fridge has been stocked with juices and ensure for now till i can find out what else to stock it with, and bottles of water 4 cases water, 4 cases gatorade, 2 cases orange juice and 2 cases apple juice, 4 cases of ensure, what else should i put in there? any help will be appreciated and any suggestions are very welcomed, i just dont know what to do about the girlfriend, she is a nice girl, who is always polite with me, and i know he loves her my heart says yes my mind says yes, then no then yes, all because her family should help her but if he uses drugs how can she get clean there? i just dont know, i have an appointment with the doc when he returns but that isnt for two weeks roughly, by then he should be done but i told him he must still tell him the what, how, when and why's.he has agreed to that. and has agreed to speak to his phycologist when he see's her again, but if he is sick i dont know if he will make this weeks appointment, maybe she will come out for a house call for alittle extra, ill have to ask...so please any and all ideas thoughts, suggestions, im at a lost now, and do i take daves advise and tell the hired hands or will they just treat him bad because of it??? i know some have complained that he doesnt do his chores so they cant always do theres with out doing his first for him.Im lost i wish my husband was here to help with this, buti thank you all for all your help and will be up for awhile waiting for responses please and thank you
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I have told him i am not giving him money or nor am i buying anything illegal for him no matter what, he does not get his truck keys back nor the bank card or credit cards till he has done this, they are in the safe and no he can't get into it, my foot is down on that one because i dont want him driving well high i guess they call it, and he isnt going to spend all his money nor mine on illegal things, he understood and said that was fine and wont argue about it, we have even locked up the bike keys, the 4 wheeler keys, the gator keys, the tractor keys any and all vehickle keys are accounted for and locked up except for 1 set of ranch equip keys so the guys can do there jobs...
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1416133 tn?1351126817
Okay, I think what you've done so far where the ranch is concerned is good.  And the items you've stocked sound good as well.  It's really good to hear Dave will be by your side throughout all of this.

I think the one thing that stuck out the most for me from your post was the statement about your son's willingness to quit today for good but ONLY IF you allow his girlfriend to stay with him, and if not, then he'll do it in three days.  That concerns me a little as it sounds like he's giving you an ultimatum.  And quite frankly, right now, he's in no position to do that.  I hope I'm not being too blunt here - I'm sorry if I am.  But I sense from your words that he's calling the shots here and one of the first things you do when getting clean is SURRENDER to the addiction and let those who want to help you do just that.  And that doesn't mean telling them what they are and are not allowed to do for them to HELP them get well.  Do you see what I mean here?  Addicts can be pretty selfish people - and many of us do what we have to to get our way.  Typical addict behavior.

I just can't see having his girlfriend there during this process as helping him.  Right now is the time to focus on HIS sobriety, not hers.  Are there really NO other resources for this girl?  She has absolutely no where else to turn?  I realize the father is an addict, but she has no other family to turn to?  I'm sorry but it sounds like you're being manipulated and like I said, that concerns me.

I'm sure others here will give their take on your situation as well.  Keep posting - this place will continue to be of huge comfort to you now.
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1331115 tn?1401672466
I agree with ImDONE he should't be giving you ultimatums about his getting clean. He either wants to or he doesn't. As far as having two people together going thru w/d that could turn into a bad thing, I know when I was in the height of w/d I was not a very nice person to be around. I was angry, bitchy and just allround nasty to my beautiful wife. Thank God she loved me enough to just blow it off as she new it wasn't me it was the toxins leaving my body. Of course I am paying for it now (just kidding lol) she still loves me. Now image having 2 people like that and living in the same space, not a good situation.
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Hello, I understand your concern over his ultimatum, and yes it is, i realize it, but to answer your question, no she has no where else to go, it's unfortunate, but the family she has she lives with is it, and they are not very good role models by any means, dad is an addict and mom is an alcholic, they fight all the time, there has been talk that she live here in the past. I am at the point where i dont care how, just as long as he gets clean. it's alot for me, he is always in my ear telling me how he can do it but doesnt want to do it alone, or how can i care but leave her to deal with her addiction there, he says they both decided to quit at the same time, I just dont know what to do, i am ready to have a nervous breakdown over all this, but please give me your thoughts, i really appreciate all you have said already
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I understand alittle better now, i guess i can see the problems i just feel for the girl, i have to big a heart i guess, i don't know i am going to go to bed, i am emotionaly drained today, i have to be up at 5am to do his chores, so i shall say good night now, and thank you , i will talk to everyone in the morning, he is sleeping so i wont have to llisten to anymore tonight....i dont know if i can do this, there seems to always be something.... now it's grapes and kiwi he would like, dont get me wrong he isnt demanding he is asking, and untill i knew what was going on, i bought anything and everything he wanted or needed, but now i just dont know......
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Okay....You've done an outstanding job getting ready for this but that boy is sure "putting you together".   This is not "happy time". You are not running a rehab. It's his home and he's your kid so you need to help. You don't need to help the girlfriend!!  He thinks he'll do better with her there??  It sounds like a vacation in bed to me!! So, no on the girlfriend. They could end up fighting with EACHOTHER! Then you have a major problem.

If the trailer has a bathroom then good!  You've got it well stocked. I said no carbs because it's just a bunch of empty calories that his body doesn't need. Pasta is just fine. I was talking about chips and dip,cookies,etc...

You've really done everything! You've got the vehicles secure and Dave is on board. As far as the rest of the help goes:  They'll know something is up and will gossip among themselves. Do whatever you feel comfortable with. I'd probably tell them just so they know what's going on straight from you,you know?

Your son is using your emotions against you. He's dangling a carrot with that girlfriend deal...He'll quit now if she comes but not for 3 days if she doesn't!  What the hell is that??
NO!!!   You start now as long as I'm willing to help you!!  That's what you need to say!  He is sick but he can't push you aound at the same time!

You sound like such a wonderful and courageous woman!!  Please keep posting...there are so many great people here that you can count on for support and advice.
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Grapes and kiwi???   I hope he knows just how lucky he is to have you!!  Tell him I said this is a detox not a Carnival Cruise!!
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968560 tn?1307455098
I didnt read all the posts but I did read something about his girlfriend wanting to come there to detox because she cant do it at home because her dad is also addicted. Right there is a red flag. If her dad is addicted he has drugs around or can get them. Your son and his girlfriend can make a drug connection through her dad. I not only wouldnt let her come there to detox, I wouldnt let her even be around your son for a couple of months. your son and you are going to have your hands full. She needs to get clean on her own. She can and probably will bring him drugs if given the chance. Good Luck
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968560 tn?1307455098
I've detoxed at home and in county jail, give me home. He may not get kiwi,but he will get good food to eat and support. Believe me, in jail they just lock up up and your own your own. Got cramps,diarreah, vomiting oh well. He better go along with the program that you have set up. Its hard but a lot of people right here on this forum have done it and he can too. Your plan is 100% guarenteed. It works or he will get his misery back. He better stop shucking and jiveing and get real, stop the stupid demands and get his self clean and sober. You are not responsible for his addiction so stop beating yourself up. You can only do so much and then it's up to him. He has got to take action. you might check into a 90 day inpatient detox. If you have insurance, it will usually pay partof the expenses Good Luck
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Good Day
  I am sorry for the late response, ranch chores need done and then i had him in my ear, and her here also. They both told me how they want to be clean, and how they feel that if he gets clean and she doesnt that he would end up back to it, i told them they could spend a few months apart till he is sober and good, then we could look at her being done, He didnt like that idea, h has said he does want to marry her and that is why he would like me to have them both there, and they will register for a rehab after their detox, but i guess the wait is 6 months for some places, she has asked if she could stay at my house (trailer) till this happens, she has voiced there is no way to get clean at her house and that there is no support there, and i know over the years there has been a few issues that have caused her to stay at our place for her own protection. So i am so confused, i thought after i slept that maybe things might be more clear, but its not. He hasnt done his morning 1/2 as of yet, partly because i was at market and had some other things to do this morning and was gone by the time he woke up, and i have told him to wait till i am done with what i am doing (talking to you all) He looks bad, his eyes are watering, and i noticed he has a hard time with stairs, and has alittle bit of a shake to his hands, i just figured i put all my time into him the last couple of days and dave told me to go get things done i needed to do or wanted to do and he would wrap up his chores and watch the house, and it prolongs when he gets it, i wanna see how long he can trully go and what he is going to be like when i dont give it to him right away as it will give me an idea of what he will be like with none and his attitude, he was rude to me, just said callme when your done please. I am still not sure what else to put into the trailer, the hydro has been hooked up as well as the water, and we ran the septic to the ground septic on the ranch, and i still dont know about the girl, I am not worrried about him going to jail, or i hope i dont have any issues with this. As for her father comming here, it will never happen,i had a order issued to him last year not to trespass. I dont think this is going ot be any fun with him, i dont thoink he will be an ***, but i think he is going to be realy sick, well off to see him then do my gardens and such, will come back in alittle while thank you for your support
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I have something to add,  i would have thought with him only doing 1/2 of the capsule that quiting qould be easy, but i have never been addicted to anything, no offence ment to anyone your all great, but i never even smoked marijuwana, i dont think my doctor has ever given me a narcotic,i will ask when i see him though, but he seems really sick, he put the beads in his mouth and washed them down, quickly, and i asked if he felt better and he said it could take up to an hour to feel anything, i just dont understand why he cant just say no more one morning and just be fine, it doesnt seem like alot that he is doing, i am still confused a bit about this all, but you have all been a great help
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271792 tn?1334983257
He is pushing every one of your buttons. After all, he installed them and knows how to work it. I did it with my mom time and time again and one day she said "no". A few months later I got clean.

I detoxed in rehab 3 times, in jail 4 times and at home countless times. I would have killed for Kiwi and someone to share my bed. I am telling you this not to be sarcastic but to say that he is being ridiculous with his requests and the scary thing is that he is basically in control still. He will not stay clean until he learns to be humble and listens.. His best thinking got him where he is today. I hope that makes sense to you. He doesn't know what he NEEDS---He knows what he WANTS.

Two people detoxing together and in a relationship is pure insanity. My experience is that they will both use before they get clean. He needs to focus on himself, not on his girlfriend.He needs to set himself up for success--not for failure and concentrating on someone else or someone else's issues is dangerous for his sobriety.

You haven't (that I can see) addressed the elephant in the room. He cannot stay clean alone. He is going to need major life changes to do this so what happens after 5 days? I so wish you would do some research on addiction and understand that it does not end after he puts the drugs down. He will always be an addict and once he is through the detox phase he has a choice to be an addict in recovery or one that is using.

I suggest that you also post in the doctor's forum here at MH. Maybe you will understand what we are telling you if a professional explains it. I am just thinking of ways to get you to learn all you can. Here is the link to the forum:

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Addiction/show/326

You seem to be such a lovely person and that drives members to want to help. No one here is telling you something that they haven't experienced first hand. That is how it works so know that the advise comes from the heart.

One last thing. I saw mention of alcohol somewhere in this big thread. Know that alcohol IS a drug. Most people don't drink it for the taste. They drink it for the "effect", just like drugs. People drink to mask feelings. People do drugs to mask feelings. It is all a symptom of what is going on. Learning how to live with those feelings, deal with them, identify them, etc. without the use of a mind or mood altering substance is part of recovery.  I guess I wanted to tell you to get the alcohol out of the house as well. It is a quick, easy and legal substitution and I have seen many people go down that road.

Please be careful and be good to yourself. Let us know how you both are doing. You are in my thoughts and in my prayers.
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Hello
  I didnt know about the alchol, i keep wiskey in the house for the cold nights of winter for the ranch hands to have a glass at the end of day, and for hot toddies when the kids were sick (warmed up), i can put it in the barn or giveit to Dave to leave it for the boys to have if they wish. My son spoke to Dave this morning and i guess they had a good conversation, i guess my son is resolved that this has to be about him not them, he is just worried he will loose her forever, I am checking with friends to see if there is anyone willing to take her in (girls detox or something like that) My son came to me after the conversation and gave me a hug and said he was sorry he let me down, so we spoke, he said whatever i pick up for him to eat would be fine, and he will do whatever i wish and or Dave asks, i explained that Dave is not taking the role of his father and  we have no kind of relationship but he is going to help me with this. I asked why he wanted the kiwi and some of the things he has asked for, he told me that in him reading online and talking to friends on the phone that he has heard fruit and juices and water and such was good and that one site said something about comfort foods, he showed me the site, and it did, but it is the only one i have seen that is like that, he is scared and admitted it, and i can see it in his face, he is worried about her also, i told him he can only worry about himself, he said he will do it alone, and will tell her this, and he will follow any rules we set forward and do what he is asked, he said he is tired of having to do something just to feel good, or to be able to do the ranch chores, if you could have seen my son a few years ago, he could run the ranch and knew everything that had to be done daily and now he seems to have forgotten most or lost interest in it, He has asked i not change the will just yet, he says he will do it, but is scared on how sick he is going to be, he doesnt know what to expect, and i dont have the answers for him either, i have researched addiction, this is lifetime for him, he has to avoid all drugs/alchol or he could end up addicted to something else easily from what i understand from the sites. He had so many questions and i had no answers i did let him read over what has been said, he said he is sorry if he seems like a monster i told him no one thought that, just maybe alittle spoiled which he is and he admitted it,he asked if he could move his game system to the trailer, i told him to make a list of what he wanted in there and i would go over it and have dave place it in there and hook it up if he can. He has asked me to ask you all this
1. how sick is he going to trully be
2. how long will it take to start being realy bad
3. how long will it last
4. at what point will he start to feel better
5. How can he keep his girlfriend if she can not stop or i can not find a place for her to stop
6. Comming off of hyrdomorph contin how long can it take ( he says he has done no oxycotin in a week and only 1/2 of a 24mg hdromorph contin)
7. He also wanted me to ask, and its realy none of our buss, but how many were successful at staying clean from drugs. ( he asked)

I have the questions besides what i have placed in the trailer what else should i put in there for him to eat, how often should he excersize and at what point, is this going to be like the flu where he sleeps all the time, someone said he would be awake all the time, can i give him sleeping aids?

I told the ranch hands alittle of what is going on, and what i expect from them well this is going on, and found out acouple of them have family members or friends that are addicted to pills, i was amazed, i never realized how big of a problem this is, i was also informed that something called suboxin works but it can only come froma special doctor, they all agreed to keep everyone off the ranch, or his friends and girlfriend at least, they will watch him and if catch him leaving the property get ahold of myself or dave right away, they also agreed to stay away from the trailer altogether, the grass around it was cut this morning and weeded, dave even ran a cord for the satalite to the trailer for him, dave realy is trying to help him, seems to want to do more for him than i thought of, he has placed extra sheets and comforters and pillows inside, and even ran a tarp on the one side to keep the sun from beating in. I appreciate all of the help you have given and look forward to speaking to you through this process, I am glad i found this site, there were so many that seem to have been not used anymore, thank you so much everyone
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1235186 tn?1339127464
mom,mom,mom .. we have already answered so many of these questions many times and over. he just needs to start .no one knows the exact time frame for his withdrawal symptoms. each person varies, it could be 4 days or 2 weeks. that is how long the physical symptoms last. he will have the shakes, diarrhea,maybe vomit,restless legs, no sleep,a very bad flu. he wont die. he will be uncomfortable yes, very uncomfortable. he is young and he will be fine. the game system is ok that will give him something to do. you can get bananas that will help will the legs, he can take showers for the aches. no alcohol. the sleep aids wont work. after the physical symptoms of withdrawal end he will have mental symptoms, anxiety and depression. then he when he will need counselors, therapists, na/aa, support groups, church to help him stay a recovering addict and not an active one. exercise helps to get his body healthy and get the endrophins in his brain functioning again. during  drug the endrophins shut down. the endrophins are what makes us have feelings and emotions. i dont think anyone can give you a % of how many stay clean. it can become a roller coaster and revolving door addiction. he needs to stop the cycle now.
debbie
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Good news he just came to me, and asked if he could do his last half of the capsule tonight at bed, as he said to get one last night of sleep, and tomorrow start his withdrawls, it is good news, i just dont know if i am ready, he sayshe is ready he is sorry for hurting me and making things harder on me, Dave must have really talked to him, So i guess we are starting this tomorrrow morning, god give me the strengh to do this with out giving in to anything, he says he will do it anyways i want with or with out her, and i gotta say i may let her come, she callsme mom, and i have been to her plays and soccor games and acted as a second mom, and she has no one else, she hasnt asked or adnitted to me anything but i just called her down and i am going ot ask her and see how honest she is with me, he hasnt spoke to her in two days as i have hid the phone, So i gotta see if she wants to quit first as you have all said. I better get shopping for him, got a small list of things like bannanas, bread, cereal, just dont know what else to get, i am planning 7 days as this seems to be the average of what i have been told it will take,,,I just hope he can do it, and i hope i can do it also. Mommy's getting ready mentaly, i think...
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271792 tn?1334983257
I think all of your questions regarding how he is going to feel, etc. have been answered so I will not address that.

You wanted to know about how many stay clean. The percentage is very low--I don't know specifically and it would not matter anyway as your son is his own person and it is about HIM staying clean, never mind what anyone else is doing.

I can only speak for myself. I started using drugs consciously at the age of 13. I got clean for the first time at 16 but did not follow through with my recovery and started using again. I detoxed and used again over, and over, and over again for the next 20 years. Mind you, I got a college education, bought a house, the whole nine yards. It was never a matter of education or social status. Contrary to popular opinion, junkies are not only those unbathed people sleeping in the park. They are your doctors, friends and neighbors. Addiction has no ethnic or religious boundaries. It takes us all.

Anyway, during that twenty years my addiction progressed and I managed to go back and stay away from my drug of choice many times and therefore I was able to convince myself that I did not have a problem. It came crashing down and all that ended with, what I told you earlier, jails and institutions. I finally got clean and stayed clean for a little over 5-1/2 years. I did not do it alone. Never would I have been able to do that alone, then or now.

I had an accident at that time and was put on pain medication. That was all it took for another 20 year run. I did not go back to my drug of choice so again I convinced myself that I was not addicted and because they were "prescribed" and I had "real pain" I also convinced myself that I was not addicted. Not true and once again my addiction progressed. Long story short, I got clean again and have been clean for some 3-1/2 years now.

I am an addict and will always be an addict. Addiction is very much a mental disease and it plays games with me, especially with my pain. There are days when I could easily justify taking a pain pill but I know what that means. One turns to two and as the old saying goes.."One is too many and a thousand is never enough". That sums it up.

Your son WILL make it through the detox. I have never seen anyone prepare like you have. The scary part of this whole thing is what will happen after the withdrawal. I have said this several times--your son needs professional help. If he does not get to the root of the problem he cannot begin his recovery.

As far as the girlfriend---the hair on my neck stands on end at the thought of them detoxing together. He seems more worried about her. If she wants it bad enough she will take the steps to get it. SHE has to do the work--not him. Not you. Their relationship was/is drug-based, whether it started that way or not, that is what it is now. They may find they don't have a relationship at all when this is all said and done. I ended a 17 year marriage when I got clean the 2nd time. I used drugs the entire time we were together and found that I was living with a stranger when I got clean. That may not happen to them, they may go on to live a happy life but if he can't do this one thing for himself for a bit of time, then I don't see much hope. He has to be well himself to bring someone else into his life, and so does she. He owes it to himself to try.

Is there a reason why your son hasn't come on himself to find out about how this all works? It concerns me that he is not reaching out himself.
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Hello
  I do not know why he has not come on here himself, when i asked he said he did belong to a forum, whatever that is, that he has been seeking information from, I understand your concern with the girlfriend but i cant turn someone away, she is comming at 2 and i am going to ask her if she realy want to quit and is ready, and run through the rules and such with her, its a 1 shot deal, 1 chance, i do love her as a daughter but she is not my daughter, I am happy he has come and said he is ready no matter what she chooses, or anything else, there were no demands or requests except for the 1 he wanted one last night of a good sleep, and will go to the trailer tomorrow morning, or i will put him there tonight maybe, I am just happy, his attitude changed, he did not ask for anything or request anything or demand anything, he apologized for me worrying and everything,  i thought of it as a break through, should i not? As for the relationship, i am sorry to hear about yours my heart goes to you, as for his, i hope it works out together, they are good together, and before all this she was always there for him, when dad passed, and his brother, she always pushed him to do better at whatever he was doing, so i hope it doesnt end after all of this, i will get his phycologist to handle the addiction if she can if not she can refer him to someone for councelling, at this point the cost is not important, only getting my son back is. You would have to know him before to understand why i am the way i am, he would literly give his shirt off his back to help someone in need a year or so ago, he worked 10-12 hour days on the ranch, he took over alot when my husband passed, and did a great job at running the ranch, i want him back so bad, just trying to figure out what food to get for them, i got lots of fluids and vitamins, just waiting for dave to return from the field to see what he thinks, probably microwave food would be best, something easy, ontop of what i will cook each night. It made me happy when he said he was ready and didnt say the word "BUT" after it.
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968560 tn?1307455098
Mom, your asking questions that no one can answer. There are as many senarios as there are people. Will he be sick? Yes Will it kill him? No. What should he eat?  anything he wants to. The only thing you need to worry about is keeping him seperated from the drugs. If he doesn't use he will get better. How long will it take? There is no way to tell. % of people who stay clean I would say 5% or less. The solution is very simple but very difficult to do. Stop taking drugs. That's it. Just quit taking drugs. You are going to drive yourself crazy worring about all this. I know you love your son but other than putting him in solitary confinement you cant make him quit. That is something he has to do. Good Luck
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1580085 tn?1400944438
so many people have given you so much very good advice , some have dragged up their past , to help you understand, and for you to help your son, now is the time to get on with it. i am sorry if this sounds harsh, but he could have got some of the physical stuff done by now, its the future he needs to be aware of, to make sure he doesnt waste his life to drugs, prayers and god bless.
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I am sorry if i said something wrong, and i appreciate all the help advise and information everyone has given me, going into this i did not know anything, and in reading through the internet it seems i still don't know much, it is so over welming, You are all right he could have done this by now, he could have never started would have been better, i would like to meet the one who introduced him to it, we live is such a small community that i am surprised by all of this, i always thought our biggest worry was, if a rustler would come through the night, not a drug dealer introducing my son to drugs. I worry now that the success rate is so low, i hope he is the 95% that does do this, i hope all i have done isnt in vien and i dont have to go through this again, i really hope he can do this, he seems commited, he has spoke to me acouple of times today and i understand acouple of the things i noticed over the last few months that didnt seem right he has come clean on, He is scared, i can see it and he admitts it, it's the unsureity of what is to come for him, he knows he will be sick, he showed me some of the sites he has gone to that explain what he will go through, i was surprised he has been reading up on it, and the sites do say that it is the flu but 10x stronger, but that seemed to be for oxycotin, he says he hasnt done that in a week now, that all he has done is these grey capsuls, and i did search but there doesnt seem to be alot of information in regards to detox from them. I found lots on oxycotin, but sometimes when  i search these capsules it comes up with diladada or something like that, i found sites that give me alot of big words explaining the drug but not the recovery from it and he says he has had the same problem, i called the doctors offfice and spoke to the assistant who answered the phone but all she could say was i would have to wait till the doctor returns, i even asked the vet, but he just looked at me funny, I appreciate that you have all shared your stories with me, i feel for all of you, if i could help you all i would, i just got to get through this with him first, thank you so much for all your help.
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1580085 tn?1400944438
you are very welcome! we all needed help , and we all had to help ourselves, we have been through it cold turkey, just stopped and we are here to tell the tale and share with you, but we should be sharing with him! he should be the one i am replying to! i jope he gets on with it , you say "you have got to get him through this", only he can do that. he also has to help himself, like us! its hard for you, take care.
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I know, i am just worried what it will be like for him, i realize its his own fault but i feel helpless, i wanna take the pain away for him, if i could...
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1580085 tn?1400944438
as a parent , i can understand that very much, but if you did, what would he learn? the best thing you can do for him is to just get him to get on with it. as much as we love them
its no good if they cant fend for their selves!  god bless for now.
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I am 20 years old and have detoxed from oxycontin many times. Like your son I snort it and do it recreationally and it became very popular in my town. I have to say, I just read through this entire thread and, I do not mean this rudely, but it really doesn't matter where he detoxes, what kinds of food you are cooking him, or if he has his gaming system. I do not mean this as an insult to you, he is more than lucky to have a mother like you that cares. But the real issue here is it seems your son is in a lot of emotional pain most likely stemming from the deaths of brother and father and then the extreme increase in responsibility being the "man" of the farm/taking it over. It is so sad to me the pain that exists in this world and the horrible things people have to go through and it sounds as if youve had your fair share. Your son is young and has a chance to get sober but he really needs to want it. It will take so much work, way more than a few days of detoxing. What comes after the detox is the most important. He's been using oxycontin as a shield, a protection from the pain of his life, to numb all emotions, and now everything will be brought to the surface again and he will have to face it and walk through it and make it out the other side. If he can honestly do this process and make it through all the pain and struggles he will face, there will be an amazing life waiting for him on the other side and he deserves that. He will experience freedom and he won't be tied to that drug anymore. This is one of the toughest battles in life and he will have to do it himself. He'll have to do some serious work on himself but it is so worth it. Tell him if he ever wants to message me he can. I know exactly what he is going through, especially at our age, and being surrounded by it with friends. I also have to say I think the detox is going to be difficult, harder than people have said. He said he was doing "8 yellows" which is at least 4 80's or 320mg and probably more. That is a really high dose, if you were to do oxycontin, 20mg would probably have you nodding out and asleep your first time, so you can see the tolerance he has built. I had that same tolerance as well and the detox was the most painful thing I have ever been through. I can't compare it to the flu, it was far worse. But he is fighting for his life and if it is important to him then he can soldgier through the detox. Are there NA meetings in your town? After the detox he will need support, serious support, and at NA he can find other kids his age that are going through the exact same thing. It might really help him. Also are there al-anon meetings in your town? These are meetings for family members of addicts (you) and basically a live face to face support group version of this forum. You will be able to talk to other parents of addicts and get advice adn support. I will be thinking of both of you as you start this tomorrow, tell him to message me anytime if he wants, he deserves his life back and I hope he can do it. Best wishes.
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I appreciate your response but no, he stopped doing the yellow oxycotin, and over the last few days has been doing grey capsules that say 24mg hydromoph contin, 1 capsule a day, 1/2 in the morning and 1/2 at night, i realize it doesnt matter what drug he is doing i do want him back and he wants to be back also, i showed him your post and he thinks he has lowered his tolerance becuase of these capsules, he suggest to me that his withdrawls will be rough but not as rough as if he was still doing the oxycotin he was doing. We dont have anything like that in our town, but he does have a phycologost i spoke to today and she doesnt handle addiction but is making a referal for him to one that does for when he is done his detox. As a mother your post scares me for him, i have taked to many who say it;s like the flu just alittle worst, you make it sound like it;s the worst thing in the world, I just hope my son is right and he has lowered his tolerance by doing what he did, i realy hope he is right, maybe im hoping for my sake, but i dont want to see him suffer to bad, i understand he will suffer but i hope it isnt a long detox, i have read further not on the capsuls cause i cant realy find anything about detox from them but some say it was a day some say it was 3 days some say 5, i think the longest i read was a week. He has told me that he may sign up and talk to people well he is going through it, i spoke to a nurse who basically said don't bother bringing him to the hospital well he is withdrawing as there is nothing they can do unless he is in medical distress, like heart attack or something like that. Everyone says he won't die from this, so i know that, adds alittle comfort but if i could i would still take his pain away, i would go through it for him if i could, i understand he may not learn but he would be drug free again.Yes he has had alot of responsibility but nothing he didnt ask for, i have hired hands to take the work load off of him, some since my husband was alive acouple after, i try to give hima normal life, the hours he worked he always chose to do, we argued a few times about it but it was his choice.
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I am so sorry to hear about your sons and I can somewhat relate to you not wanting to be hard on him but from the other side of things. I quit cold turkey a few years back two days before mothers day. I didn't think I could handle and was considering admitting myself into a detox and treatment center. What stopped me? Well, how do I explain to my mother that none of her children will see her on mothers day because I will be in detox, her 21 yr old passed from a heroin overdose, and the other one is in jail for crack? I had to tough it out for her sake. You mentioned going to the doctor? This is just my opinion but have you considered not being in the room while they talk? He may be more reluctent to tell the truth but again, that's just my opinion. Also, did you say he was 19 and in school? If so, do you have insurance? I'm not a 100% sure but I think outpatient services require drug tests so maybe you could get him in that to monitor his recovery. He'll get the support ge needs there and it's somewhat of a flexible program when it comes to time. Just an idea.... I hope things work out for you and your family. Just know this is a disease and it will need to be managed for the rest of his life. It's best to start while he's still young.
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1580085 tn?1400944438
you are missing the point!  it doesnt matter where, when , what how much, its as NoOC123said, its about after the withdrawals, about the rest of his life, we are trying to help him lead a good life and not be a slave to drugs!  best wishes.
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I keep hearing about insurance, i live in Canada, we have health care covered but from what i have found out the list to get him in anywhere and i have gone 4 hours away is 4 months.............he starts tomorrow, and says he is creating a profile on here to talk to people, please help him where i cant maybe, thank you all
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I didnt mean to scare you in my post. All the details are not the point I was getting at. Whether, he was taking 8 yellow 40mg pills or 1/2 hydromorph, the thing to focus on is after the withdrawals. Many people have this idea (myself included the first time i went to treatment) that after WD'ing and getting the drugs out of my system, i'd be fine. Cured, and done with. Sadly, this is so far from the truth. He won't walk out of that trailer after 5 days a cured man with no drug addiction or desires to use. He will still have mental WD's lingering (depression, lethargy, lack of motivation, inability to sleep, anxiety) as well as the cravings that hit once youve stopped. That's why some kind of aftercare is so important. If it were as easy as detoxing and then youre free and done for the rest of your life, completely cured, well then this forum would not exist. Neither would AA or NA or long multiple month rehab programs. Unfortunately there is a lot more to this then a few days of withdrawal. I am sorry to say this to you. I just don't want you to expect a miracle when he walks out of the trailer 5  days from now. Be patient, it's a slow healing process that requires a lot of work. He said hes been using for a year now right? Well his body and brain have adjusted to a year of opiates flooding the system. It will take time to recover from this physically, mentally, spirituality. But luckily he has a supportive loving mother and girlfriend but your love can only go so far. He has to want it to. The saddest thing for a parent to face is that they CAN NOT LOVE THEIR CHILD SOBER. All the love in the world will not make your son sober, only he can do it. I know it's heartbreaking, my parents had to realize this too after I continued relapsing after multiple treatment centers. And i was once that normal kid you say your son was. Good hearted, volunteered all around town, all A's , went to college, played sports, had lots of friends, took care of families children. Well respected and loved. I would do anything to help another person and sadly I just couldn't help myself and I ended up self destructing with oxycontin. You have to really want it. I don't intend to scare you with my posts, thats not my point, I am simply sharing my experiences and they are real. I wish the best for you, I truly do. Keep posting!
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1331115 tn?1401672466
Hello I am Ricks (quitinoxys) wife Ashley, Rick asked me to read your posts and offer my help as I was on the other side of addiction as you are. You write of how different your son was prior to taking drugs well I can totally relate to that. When I first met Rick he was a man that would as you say give you the shirt off his back. He was a legacy firefigher for the NYFD until his accident. Even after his terrible injuries he fought to be able to walk again. In the beginning he was in so much pain he had to take narcotics to ease that pain but it took a toll on him and me as well. For years I buried my head in the sand when he took drugs and drank toease his pain but all I did was contribute to his addiction. People close to both of us told me "Rick has a problem" but I just defended him by saying that you don't know what he has been through. All that did was give him license to use more!! Through the years he turn into someone I didn't even know anymore. He went from a very social and a person that had a zest for life to someone that would just lay around and do nothing all day. This was not the man I married.

When I would bring up the subject of addiction he would get mad and we would have terrible arguments. I love my husband very much and I saw the pain he was in (not the physical but the pain of addiction). I told him that I can't watch him destroy himself anymore and I left him. It hurt me so bad to have to do that but I had to for his good. He called me a couple of days later and said he would rather live a life of physical pain than losing me and agreed to get clean. The first plan was he was going to go to a detox center and do it but my mister tough guy said "I can do this by myself without any help". He then reached out and found all of the wonderful people on this website. He did his detoxifcation at home with help from all of the people here and his brother firefigthers. As he posted to you he WAS NOT a NICE person thru the withdrawl time, but I forgave him for that. It was a long process and he is still involved in a group that deals with chronic pain and addiction.

So my point of telling you this saga is that you need to step away and let the addict decide on what they want to do. You cannot make them do what you want they have to want to do it for themselves. BTW My Big Man Rick has been clean for almost 1 year and I am so proud of him. I am hoping that you can post next year and say the same. You are in our prayers.

Ashley    
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Morning
  Today so far isnt bad, they both came in for breakfast he didnt eat very much and chances are i over cooked the amount of food, i didnt know what he would like or could eat, he stuck with some pancake covered in syrup, she didnt eat anything except some toast, they looked alright i guess except when he walked, it seemed like he was in pain, i offered some tylenol, and he declined, I asked about her cause she didnt look that bad, he said that when they have gone with out before, she usually doesnt get sick till after him, and she can sleep through some of the withdrawls, they gave me a hug, and he told me  not to worry about lunch, but i have soup on already just incase, they both seem committed to doing this, i have after care for him, i spoke to her father this morning and said what you have all said about aftercare, and well his comment was she got into it, she can get out off it, then i learn he was giving them to her at a younger age, i learned she has done them for almost 3 years, my son was shocked, he didnt know, her father is an ***, so i will try to find her a rehabilitation place or something to help her. Other than that this morning seems okay, Dave went into the trailer and due to the intercome i could here what he said, and he told them, they could do this but they have to want it, he isnt going to let them play me or use me or manipulate me, and they both agreed with him that will not do anything to hurt me, they both said to him to tell me not to try so hard when it comes to food as they probably wont eat alot. So this is day one lets hope they stick to it,,,,they are such good kids. Thank you for listening
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Hi!  It sounds okay so far. You've done just about everything you can and the rest is up to them. I understand why you have the girlfriend there as well. I would probably have done the same thing;not for your son but because she needs help!

Just remember this:  Dehydration and low blood sugar cause a lot of the withdrawal symptoms.  So, they need to keep drinking...A LOT!  I'm sure they have no appetite but if they eat bananas and oranges/apples it will help! Also,protein bars/shakes.

By 72 hours,most of the opiate is gone. At that time symptoms will peak and then gradually improve. They'll be some sleep issues and energy issues. At this point, exercise is the best friend!!   Get them both out of that trailer and on the farm doing chores. They won't want to but it's better if they move and exercise!

Dave sounds like a wonderful guy...just saying!  :)
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The other med is dilaudid. Highly addictive. Like synthetic heroine. The flu symptoms are probably signs of withdrawal.
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Ashley

    Thank you for writting me and telling me your story, i appreciate it, it did give me some insight to what i may have to expect, I just hope the best for them both, i will keep contact with everyone and he has still said he will creat a post under my name asking any questions he may have. Your story was touching, i am sorry it took you leaving i dont think i could have done that if my husband had an addiction, but it worked and i am really happy for the two of you, my heart goes out to all firefighters, in my lifetime i have known a few living in a rural area, we have volunteer firefighters as well as the city guys who are 40 mins away, a bunch of great guys and they all deserve respect. The only support he has is me and his girlfriend and dave but dave has no sympathy for addiction, and i mean none, but as i said earlier they seem committed and want to do this, he knows he needs to speak to the substance abuse therapist after he is done, and has said okay,he was dissapointed and he explained why and i understand, he has been seeing his current phycologist twice a week for over a year and now like he says another one, but understands by all of what everyone has written that he will need it, as for her i got to find something, i will be on the phone today finding something for her somewhere when she is done, she has said she would prefer a live in program, as she haas tried NA and it didnt work, I just couldnt beleive her father, when i called to say what she was doing and make sure he had no objections, he really doesnt care what she does, and that is sad, as she is such a lovely and good hearted girl,  i understand why she stayed at my house so much when she was younger in highschool. I just dont understand some paerents
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The hydromorphone is dilaidid. Highly addictive. Flu symptoms are a signof withd
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The hydromorphone is dilaidid. Highly addictive. Flu symptoms are a signof withdrawal. Get him hhelp!!!! Fast!!!


!! But love him!!!!!
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Hello
  When i searched that they look diffrent very diffrent, but we are at the point now in thinking it does not matter what he has done, or what she has done, they are on there way to getting clean inside, thats what counts to me now. but thank you so much for your input
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968560 tn?1307455098
You talk about your ranch and even mentioned cattle rustlers. Were do you live Wyoming? By the way no one is mad at you for careing. It's just that there is no way to know how bad he is going to feel or how long. I know that you are very worried. But you have to understand that you cant do this for your son, he is the only one who can do this. It's hard not to worry but if you keep on you are going to get sick too and then you wont be able to help anyone. Just go through your daily chores, you have Dan to help keep an eye on your son. If Dan is one year clean, he will be able to recognize when your son starts to try to manupulate you. Good Luck
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Hello
  No i live in canada, and yes beleive it or not we have people up here that steal cattle also, not as often but it does happen I do understand that he has to do it, i will just be here for him when he needs me, or needs a shoulder, that goes for either of them. I do my chores each morning at 5 and have for years and that wont change, as for Dave, he is a good friend, and one of the hired hands, lead ranch hand, he has decided to do this on his own to help me, ontop of his normal duties, he is a great man, my husbands thought of him as one of his own, he has been here since he was a young man, and works very hard and keeps all in check.
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I just got a surprise from all the ranch hands, they just gave me flowers that say " Your the mother to us all, and make it feel like home here, we hope your son has success and will help any way we can" im in tears, between you people on here and them i thank you all very much, i never had much use for the computer but it has proven to be a great source for support thank you all so much
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Good luck. I will b praying for all of you!!!
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Hi,
How is your son and his girlfriend doing?
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1331115 tn?1401672466
Hi, I am glad Ashley told you her side of my addiction. As far as her leaving me she was very heart broken but she didn't know what else to do. I love my wife very much and by her doing that it made me think "Oh my God these pills are not only effecting me and taking my life away but is was taking hers away also" It was her love for me that made me realize I wanted my happy life back and hurting her was worse than the pain I was in. She is my hero as she was willing to forego her happiness to save me. I then saw how selfish I was. I hope your son is doing well and I know he will make it with a great Mom and person you are supporting him. God Bless---Rick
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My son is doing okay i guess, he looks really bad, and wont eat, this morning he was vomiting very much i got and am realy worried butit has stopped so i am thankfull, Dave has tried to spend time with him to keep him busy and not alone since his girlfriend seems to be able to sleep like she hasnt in a week or so. He also seems very angry at something but when i asj=k why or what i get i dont know and i ca see it frustrates him, Him and Dave have gone ridding the trails hopefully that will help him sleep, He looks so bad, all white and very slow paced even when speaking like he doesnt know the words, I want to thank everyone for talking to him and helping him best you can cosidering all you are going through yourselves

karen
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968560 tn?1307455098
W/D is never fun but I think if I had to choose a place to detox a big ranch with loving people around me would be the place I would choose to be. Good Luck and
God bless.
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1641357 tn?1470498993
Hey!  I'm so proud of your son and his gf!!  Also of you!!  As a mother it's hard to see your child hurting or in pain, but he will get through this!!!  I'm so thankful that you are so supportive of him!!!  He's going to be angry because of the withdraws and may seem irritable even just talking to you about something completely unrelated to this.  If he says something mean or yells or something, don't take it to heart, just know that it's the addiction and not him.  He's keeping down liquids now, that's good and solids will come in time.  Just keep being there for them.  At times they might not want you around, don't feel bad though, just let him know that you love him and that you are there when he needs you.  I know it's hard as well, but try not to stress yourself out too much about everything.  You've done so much!!  I'm so glad they all got you flowers :)  so sweet of them!!!  You're amazing!!
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Hello

  I have him baked beans for luch, i know it seems weird considering what has been said but someone said he had to flush his body i figured that would work and it used to be his favourite, i gave him pepto afterwords just to make sure i didnt cause any problems. It seems the girlfriend is mad at him and used his real name and all ina post because he wasnt there when she woke up, she wants him to sit in the trailer all day and night incase she wakes up, this makesme mad alittle, he was alittle irritable, moody alot of the day, but no harsh words to me or Dave, he id give one if the ranch hands a hassle but even though he is withdrawing it was kind of warrented as he left a gate open that could have caused alot of trouble for us all, i did speak to my son and said at this point it prob best if he lets Dave or myself know and we will handle it, not that he is not capable of it just right now the ranch hand may take it the wrong way
But what im worried about more is he seems to not care about much now that she said what she said, the administratoe sent him a copy of what she posted to his e-mail, and he just showed me and because of the intercome neither of them know i had dave install, i couldnt beleive it, she does expect him to sit there all day and night,just incase she wakes up, she wants to know everytime he leaves the trailer but not wake her, and going horse back ridding really isnt fair to her since she doesnt have the energy to do it, I could barely hear the tv most of the day in the trailer from the intercome which is placed in that general area, soit tells me he realy tried to keep it quiet well she slept, but she told him shen he is playing the games least he could do was to keep it quiet well she sleeps and then, he has told me he cant sleep he tried, it drove him nuts to just lay there, but even if he cant sleep tonight she wants him to stay i bed with her "like normal people would", I honestly never saw this side of her, maybe it is just the drugs, or i hope so at least, but it bothers me when i look at him and it looks like he is ready to give up on everything, and up till them as  much as he was moody and figity and restless and cranky, he seems determined that this was not going to beat him, he just toldme it seems he can do nothing right, not for me, or Dave or his girlfriend, that is the first time all day he was depressed like that, I almost feel like reminding her that she is there with him only because i allowed it and the way she is treating him during this is realy unfair, considering she sleeps all the time, she slept all day and is back to sleep now, but he cant go anywhere on the ranch he is suppose to be miserable in the trailer alone, well not alone but with her sleeping, I do apologize, i'm not sure what to say to him, he went back out with headphones and i cant hear nothing except her snoring out there now ans he seems miserable besides the addiction, but i dont want to upset him by saying something to her, Dave just came in and said he heard her at the barn screaming at him about leaving well she was sleeping, he said he went with Dave horseback riding and she said that they were suppose to do to this together and he is suppose to stay in the trailer with her. if he could hear this at the barn she must have realy yelled at him, I understand that the withdrawl will make people moody, but i think it is unfair of her to expect him to do nothing well going through this considering we have told him excercise is good, walk take the horse, go for a walk do what he can well he can, I am sorry you all said to come her with any questions or concerns if i did this wrong i am sorry, i vented at Dave poor soul, but he seemed as upset as i was over this. and i dont know what to do i dont want to upset my son, but as much as he is hurting and you can see that he stayed positive, i dont see the same boy now, i know what i would like to do with her but again i dont want to upset him, this is alot for me to take in and deal with all within a few days

To: MPACE6983

  Thank you for the compliment, if i could handle detoxing exeryone here i would, funny thing was Dave had said earlier we should build a small house on the far side of the barn for people who had no place to detox and offer the activities like working on the ranch, horseback riding and fires at night for when the people could do the activities, i wouldnt nothing against the addict, you have all been more than nice and helpfull but this has stressed me out alot so far, if there were 5-6 people here doing it i think i would have a nervous breakdown worrying about everyone.

  Well i will take the computer back to him so if he wants and isnt to embarresed he can go on and talk to you fine people agai, i just hope she hasnt destroyed his progress, I will probably be back on one more time before bed tonight depending, if not i will come on i the morning and read what any of you wrote.

  Please help my son as much as you can i really appreciate it, i wish i knew more about addiction but i just dont.

  Just an update she just woke up and gave him trouble cause he used the headphones and couldnt hear her calling him, i dont know if this was such a good idea o my part now, i would ask please no "I told you so's" please, i know i may have made an error, i didnt know she was like this, i never saw this side of her before. and how she wated him to come lay next to her so she could lay her head on his shoulder, i can see he is tired but he says he cant sleep, i kow i have probably repeated myself a few times but this has mademe mad and worry that he is giving up, i wondered at first when they got together if she dated him only because of what he had and such, now i realy wonder and worry. maybe misplaced mothers love and worry
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As both a mother & an addict, I see this from both sides. Oxycontin is such a strong pain killer that 97% of Doctors only prescribe it for terminally I'll patients. I know this is painful to hear, but whatever reasons your son is giving you are lies...us addicts always lie in an attempt to hide our problems. He needs to get into a treatment center or hospital because the detox process for this drug can be fatal if not monitored by a healthcare professional. The hardest thing you'll do we be to intervene and get him help, but I promise you that if you don't, your child's life will either be completely destroyed or he will die. Maybe it will comfort you to know that If it wasn't for the intervention of my parents, I would most certainly be dead (I'm 26 & have a six year old daughter - I tank God every day for their strength). I will pray for God to give you strength for what you have to do.
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271792 tn?1334983257
NOLA-WOW! 97% you say? May I see that link to the study please because if you are giving statistics, you would have to have a clinical study to back it up, for one. TWO--he is NOT taking Oxy's, or was not when he began his detox (3 days ago). I know this is a long post but perhaps you should go back to the beginning and read through it---you also may want to read HIS posts which are under HIS screen name. You are late to the game and giving out some strong recommendations and information. Telling the mom that her son will die from a drug detox he is NOT taking is some serious stuff. Really, you need to follow the whole story before commenting. I do understand your concern and wish you the best in your recovery.

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1331115 tn?1401672466
NOLA---Please don't scare people about detox, as there are some drugs that you cannot just stop taking or you will have some very bad reactions but opiates are not one of them. I did C/T off a very high dose of opiates and I am still here. That was almost 1 year ago, mine you I am not saying it is pleasant but it certaily won't kill you. As IBK points out you should read the posts from the begining to understand what is going on here. I appreciate your concern and wanting to help but please have all the facts before you start giving advice. I wish you much luck in you road to sobriety. God Bless---Rick
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Good morning

   That scared me alot, my son is in the washroom the me and Dave are going ot be speaking to him, we have to we learned acouple things about her, and her recovery isn't 100% honest, she snuck a cell phone in i didnt know about, but that one post scared me alot, are you all sure he wont die? i Will post what happens after we talk to him and see what he says, we heard some things through the intercome that i didnt appreciate considering what we are doing for her and such and what she had to say about me to him, and a conversation she forced him into last night, that sounded like she had been maybe cheating on him, i am so mad right now but got to calm down whe i speak to him. Sorry everyone but i will need some advise before i will make a decision, i hate to burden you all with this but i am mad and dont want to make a wrong decision
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I'll say first that your son will be fine...he's not going to die in that trailer!!

As far as the girlfriend is concerned....she's extremely immature and is not doing anything for his recovery efforts. Honestly,it's so unusual to sleep so much during detox that I'm suspicious of her and think she may have been taking some meds to help.  Also,I'm not liking the pressure she's putting on your son...

Good luck with the talk this morning!
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I have been following this story with great interest, although I know little about narcotics and withdrawal and am not an addict.

But i have to say that it seems like the girlfriend *wants* your son to fail, maybe because she doesn't want to quit herself. She must be taking something to get all that sleep, since even non-users can't sleep that much. Then she wakes him when she's awake, knowing that he was desperate for sleep himself and was finallys getting a little. She's being generally nasty about expecting him to be there with her all the time, and is saying unpleasant things about you. You are seeing a side of her you didn't know existed, and it's just as well you find out now.

In your shoes I'd send her packing right away. This is your son's recovery and it has to be about him right now. He's trying his best. I can tell that from reading his own posts. If he were alone he could sleep when he could, ride when he wanted to, and have a much easier time of it.

I'm so hoping this turns out well, and am sending many good and hopeful wishes.
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968560 tn?1307455098
I messed with drugs for almost 20 years before god hit me in the head with a hammer and got my attention. Detox centers ,county jail you name it Ive detoxed there and I mean I.V. heroin, Dilaudid 4-4mg tabs at a time 6-8 times a day. I have never even been to the E.R. for withdrawels. And I know 50 prople or more who have done the same thing and never heard of anyone dying or even having any lasting effects for opiate withdrawel. So Mom you have to realize that you need to filter the posts that you recieve. While some people mean well, they are misinformed. Your son will not die from hydromorphone or oxycontin withdrawal. He may get sick and feel bad physically and emotionally but he wont die. I got thrown in jail in 1988, I had found a pill doctor and had just finished shooting ove 300 dilaudid and had 75 in my pocket when they caught me. They locked me up and "see ya later, Have a nice 6 months" Believe me your doing the right thing. Keep your son away from the pills and he will be O.K. god Bless
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968560 tn?1307455098
And by the way you can find Doctors that will give out oxycontin like candy. I havent researched it but I would be willing to bet that OC is one of the top ten prescribed drugs in the US. Hang Tuff and stick with your plan do cave in to your son. Good Luck
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968560 tn?1307455098
that was supposed to read ""dont give in" sorry
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968560 tn?1307455098
I'm sorry for all the posts, but it really pis**s me off when someone comes up with crap just out of the blue like your son dying. You go to wikipedia and type opiate withdrawel and it will give you a whole bunch of info on what to expect. Symptoms, different treatments ect. It mentions OC and hydromorphone in particular. And it doesn't say One d**mn thing about death from W/d. Youve got you hands full without a bunch of misinformation. Now I'll get down off my soapbox and since I've quit drugs, smoking and alcohol, I'm going to indulge the only addiction that I have left "diet soda"lol. Everyday I drink a couple of 2liter bottles. Good Luck (hea)
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I've been following your story along with your sons as well!   I've detoxed off oxy a few times cold turkey and I'm still here!   It will not kill anyone!   Yes it is rough for few days but death isn't an option!   As far as I know benzo withdrawal can kill you and alcohol withdrawal can kill you!   Opiates are safe to detox from cold turkey!   Just keep him hydrated and make sure he eats!   I eat a lot of fruit!   He will be seeing the light any hour now!
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968560 tn?1307455098
I found a number that will put you in touch with a counseler. Its (877)335-4673, its non profit and covers all of Canada. They can give you info on drug rehab centers or they can help if you want to keep your son at home. This is something for you in case this gets too much to handle at home. they will wean him off the hydromorphone while giving him counceling,meditation and relaxation techniques. I went to one in Hazelton Mn. for 30 days,the food was good and you got one on one counceling, group meetings with other people who are going through the same thing and they will set him up with aftercare. Just something to think about. Hope this helps.
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Hello

I don't know where to start, it has been a terrible morning, you were all right, she did sneak something into the trailer, and unfortunately he wasted the last two days, she split or somethig a oxycotin, I am so hurt and disappointed.
What i heard on the intercome through the night was someone leaving i thought he went for a walk, but it was her she took his bicycle and biked home and saw her dad, and came back, he said he didnt know honestly, and i do beleive him, he feels like crap that he used and i can see he trully does, i understand addicts lie, but i dont beleive he is this time, he says he had just kinda got to sleep when he woke up to her over top of him screaming at how he can sleep well she is awake, and i did hear this for myself, she gave him cra p for going out yesterday and not waking her, how he never thinks of her he couldnt get a word in edge wise, she just battered him. She admitted to going home and getting it cause her excuse was she could see it was to hard on him,
  As for the sleeping thing, she got sleepers and some other thing i cant remember the name now, she told me and Dave, She came clean on it all like it was no big deal at all, she even had the nerve to tell me that what does it matter if he uses as long as he does what he should on the ranch. Thats she is going to be marrying him anyways and the ranch will be theres eventually anyways. I can't beleive her, i never saw this side of her, very pretty girl on the outside, but i have learned not so nice on the inside
Well this conversation was going on Dave took my son for a walk so he doesnt even know what she said, I dont know how to tell him yet, and she actually asked me who I thought he would beleive, what a nasty girl, she is back in the trailer and i can hear her, it almost sounds like she is rehearsing what she is going to say, unbeleivable, this is going to kill my son, he loved her so much, i just hope he can see past her outer beauty for the real her
Well they just got back , I spoke to my son, and thank god, he said he will go through it one more time, he knows he shouldnt have done it but he said he was so sick and she kept telling him how it would make him feel better and it wouldnt hurt, i dont know how i misses that on the intercome, he told me some of the stuff she said yesterday to him and today and i confessed i had an intercome in there and heard it myself so i know he wasnt lying, he looked shocked but didnt say much more except to say sorry for something he said about me, late last night, that i did hear but figured it was cause he was hurting.
He has asked that we ask her to leave, that he doesnt think he could do it, and he wa so sorry that he did that with her this morning, but he didnt want her mad at him anymore, and he was hurting realy bad, He asked we not say the relationship is done, but if she doesnt get clean then he can not be with here, i could see that killed him to say, he has agreed to stay in the trailer, and that we can lock the door and he will only leave when Dave or  myself come and get him to go for a walk or ride the horses, he said that helped as much as as it hurt he found it took his mind off of it, he said it will be bad to have to go through that all over again but said he will, that he does really want to get clean.
I just dont know what to say to her, im so disgusted, more importantly, this has sent him into a deep depression, and i dont know what to say to him, i dont know how to help him, Dave said he came clean with him also, but was more worried about what i would think of him cause he did it, I just sent Dave out to tell her she would have to leave, and i can hear her tell him that she will be back he cant live with out her, that she is the best thing that ever happened to him and he couldnt get a girl as good as her, Im ready to have a nervous breakdown, my son is upstairs and i can hear him in tears up there, I wish i knew what to say to him. In our conversation earlier he said he thought she had been cheating on him but couldnt prove it and that maybe it was just his imagination.
I am sorry to bring our family problems to you all, but most of you have helped me a great deal uderstand the addiction, maybe you can help me to understand the addiction and what a mother says to her son, that is more worried about what i think than anything, i told him i loved him and we could get through this, i dont know what more to say, Dave is not a violent man but has said he would love to go to her father and hog tie him and drag him behind the horse for a few miles, i know it wont solve anything but did sound like a good idea,
I am not sure if he will go to his account to type anything he is embarresed, he told me that, his comment was, the people i was talking to will think i am a fool, they wont want to help me anymore cause i used.
I know he messed up so does he, if anyone out there can talk to him or wants to still, please do, he really enjoyed talking to everyone online and said alot of it helped.
I am so lost, and hurt myself by this wolf in sheeps clothing, i never saw it comming, he has admitted things i never knew, like he came home a few months ago all bruised up, said he fell off his horse which i thought was weird since he grew up riding, but beleived him to find out that she had beat on him cause he wouldnt buy anymore cause he had his truck payment comming out of his chequeing account, im just thankfull she doesnt know about his savings account, or i hope she doesnt, I think i may ask him to show me the accounts online just to make sure all is okay there, He admitted what he did last year at her suggestion, We had a cow go missing, i called the police and reported it and all, to find out just a few mins ago that he infact sold it at her suggestion to buy pills from her father, I will obviously have to call the police and inform them, I just hope this doesnt cause him any trouble with the police, I dont care about the cow at this point, i dont want him to go to jail for anything, I cant beleive all of this, this has been a terrible morning.
She is actually out front of the house yelling up to him telling him he cant do it, why bother, he knows he loves her, and he wont find another girl like her, he was lucky she even dated him, she is willing to take him back as long as he leaves with her now, he can quit if he realy wants at her house. He isnt answering her, Well now what do i do, she just broke his windsheild and side widow on his truck, I am sorry everyone, I have to go i have to deal with all of this i will be back as soon as i can.again i am so sorry to all, but i need advise on how i should handle this, should i kick him out to for using, should i give up, I am lost
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