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methadone, xanax, and vivanse
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methadone, xanax, and vivanse

Hello to all. I have not posted in a while, but I'm having additional problems with my 32 yr old son. He is on 130mg of methadone and has started taking 2 to 3 bars of xanax daily and when he is awake he is a walking zombie. He went to a psychiatrist a little over a week ago and convinced him he is ADHD and got a prescription for vivanse. The police called me last Tuesday and had him pulled over due to someone calling in on him for his driving. The officer said he gave him a sobriety test and said he didnt really seem intoxicated and had me take him home and had his ride impounded due to no insurance. Well he got his ride out on Thursday and yesterday the police had him again, but let my husband go get his ride, but instead of charging him with a dwi he only got a pi, due to him being at a gas station when they found him and he was not driving. He lives with my mother and my brother and my brother told him he cannot live there any longer and my husband will not let him live here with us. My son says he does not need any rehab help and that he can put the xanax down because he usually pulls about an 8 day zombie state and then usually goes almost 2 weeks pretty sober and then repeats the cycle again. My question is how dangerous is this mix of the 3 drugs? The sherrif duputy told me on Wednesday to prepare for him to be dead in the next 2 weeks if he does not get any help. The only free rehad here does not accept anyone on benzos because they said it takes too long to detox and of the liability. Any feed back would be helpful. Can we force him into rehab? He has a 9 yr old son that he gets every other weekend and this scares me to death. We did not let him get his son yesterday which is a blessing because he got picked up yesterday, but of course because if was only a pi he was realased around 3 this morning. I hope this is not too confusing, i know i'm rambling, i apologize.
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1235186_tn?1339127464
hello. as you can see since you have been here we have a new forum. i am sorry to see things havent changed. where is he living? with your mom? brother?  they didnt stick to their guns last time, if he didnt get help or if he continued to use? they need to kick him out and let him hit rock bottom. at this point i think that is the only thing that will work.
the vyvanse is another stimulant. he had been on speed before and now he managed to get himself a script.
the meth and the xanax are a deadly combination. they both depress the central nervous system and the respiratory system.
too bad he didnt get picked up for a dui. when they get arrested many times the court will mandate rehab. he still wont admit to be an addict or think he needs help? it is extremely dangerous. i dont think he should pick up his son, GOD forbid there is a car accident.
my heart goes out to you. addiction affects so many lives,their addiction drains all those around them. you have to keep the faith, keep praying. the LORD is able to deliver him, but your son has to take a step in the right direction and ask for the help.
i will continue to pray
sending hugs
debbie
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hi debbie. Thank you for posting. he did try once to get into a free rehab here, but they wouldn't accept him into detox when he told them he was also on benzos (xanax). my brother tried to make him leave all last week, but he was so out of it he couldnt get his things together and we were afraid for him to drive. but yesterday he finally did gather some of his things and he got a room for the night and my brother told him not to come back except to get more of his belongings. please pray for my mom, this is extrememly difficult for her. i've been told if he stops the xanax cold turkey that he could have seizures and die. is that true?
thank you for the prayers
deb
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Avatar_f_tn
hi debbie. Thank you for posting. he did try once to get into a free rehab here, but they wouldn't accept him into detox when he told them he was also on benzos (xanax). my brother tried to make him leave all last week, but he was so out of it he couldnt get his things together and we were afraid for him to drive. but yesterday he finally did gather some of his things and he got a room for the night and my brother told him not to come back except to get more of his belongings. please pray for my mom, this is extrememly difficult for her. i've been told if he stops the xanax cold turkey that he could have seizures and die. is that true?
thank you for the prayers
deb
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82861_tn?1333457511
Yes, seizures are a possibility if xanax is suddenly discontinued.  Whether those seizures result in death is anyone's guess.  It all depends on how much he's taken, for what length of time and his own body chemistry.  While it's true that addicts need to feel the consequences of their addiction (no help with rent, food, transportation, etc.) the sad truth is that death is rock bottom for many addicts.  If he dies it is NOT your fault.  It's nobody's fault but your brother's.  

Have you or any other members of your family given Al-Anon meetings a try?  It really will help you all understand what you're dealing with and also help you with your own grief and guilt surrounding his life of addiction.  I never thought I'd be a groupie either, but the meetings have been a huge help for me.  They're open to anyone whose life has been affected by someone else's drug or alchol abuse.  It's time for all of you to focus on your own lives rather than devoting so much of yourselves to your brother's.
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1235186_tn?1339127464
  
jaybay- it is her son.

deb, has he been working? i knew he did the phonebook thing real brief? how many years has he been in active addiction? i know it seems harsh to tell him to leave but many times that is what it takes. it is summer he wont freeze to death.
if he has gone for 2 weeks without  any xanax then he should beable to go into detox. how long has he been taking the xanax?
how does he pay for methadone, xanax , a car, insurance,psychiatrist,vyvanse?

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thanks beach - I think the heat has finally fried my brain.  Pay no attention to that woman behind the curtain!
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Avatar_f_tn
It has not been 2 weeks since his last bout with xanax, only a day and a half. The longest he has gone without them is approx 2 weeks. He has been taking them off and on for about 4 to 5 months that I know of. Some kind of disappointment will happen to him and he will go on a week long zombie state and then say he will never do it again and that he doesnt like how they affect him. Then before 2 weeks is up something happens again and he gets more xanax and here we go again.
He was sober for about 2 weeks and my husband let him drive one of his dump trucks and he had me hold his money and he also has a yard and home improvement type business on the side, so he saved up $1200 and bought a used pickup. This is how he pays for his methadone and he saved up and went to the psychiatrist, but just had his 1st visit 2 weeks ago. The Dr gave him a coupon to get the vyvanse for free.
And no, he wont freeze, but it is 104 today with no relief in sight. Do you know if the heat will affect him while on these drugs?
The question about how many years has he been in active addiction. He started with the pain pills and speed about 14 years ago. The pains pills lead to heroin about 6 years ago? He was placed on probation about 9 yeras ago for pain pills subscription forgery and they ordered him into a state ran locked-up rehab twice, let him go to a christian rehab once, he only stayed a couple of months & talked his probation officer into letting him go into a half way house and he got kicked out of there for dirty ua. He stayed on probation for approx 8 years and kept failing ua's and finally sent to state jail where he stayed for 9 months. He got out last September and was only out for a month and got back on the methadone cos he started using heroin again and knew where that would lead. So he has been on drugs since he was about 18 yrs old, but clean while locked up, once for a year, and twice for 9 months.
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Thanks for the post. Yes I have tried a couple of Al-Anon meetings, but I need to try a different meeting. The one I went to was a group of ladies that have been meeting together for years. They welcomed the new comers and then mostly talked about a skit they had done and how well each one had did and then talked and planned some future thing they were planning. One lady finally spoke up and said they should let the 3 new comers speak and each one of us told a little about what was going on in our lives and the meeting was over. It kind of seemed like a bunch of friends having a business meeting. They were very friendly though. I just found some meetings here at the University that I am going to try to attend.

I'm not sure how long he has been taking the xanax, I think about 4 to 5 months. I think he takes about 3 bars a day off and on, meaning he takes them for about a week until he runs out and then goes almost 2 weeks without and gets some more and so the cycle goes. He is on 130 mg of methadone. He has been on methadone for about 11 months. He was up to 220mg of methadone, but kept testing positive for xanax so they dropped him to 120 mg of methadone. He tells me he has a high tolerance to the xanax and he knows how many he can take and its not going to kill him. I'm not so sure.

Thanks again for the post, I do know its time to quit enabling him.
Deb
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I'm really sorry to hear about your Al-anon experience.  I guess I've been lucky.  The meetings I've found are nothing like what you got stuck with.  That's just awful they've turned it into a social club rather than the support group it's intended to be.  I hope the new group will be the real deal for you!  If there is a rehab facility convenient to your location, check it out to see if they have public Al-Anon meetings.  They seem to be much more productive meetings if they're attached to a rehab facility.

Any drug is dangerous if it's abused.  I hear your concern and dread that your son will die from his addiction and  I can't lie to you.  It's certainly a possibility whether he abuses one drug or three or more.  The human body can withstand a whole lot of abuse but at some point it has enough.  I'm no doctor, but with this awful heat (I'm in TX too!) I would think dehydration is a bigger concern for your son than for sober people since opiates like methadone tend to dry out the body anyway.  Just as you can't control his drug use, you can control whether or not he stays hydrated.  Throw your concern out to him and let him do with it what he will.

The fact that your son says he doesn't need help because he can stop taking xanax any time he wants only shows that he isn't ready to accept help yet.  Hopefully he'll realize he does need help before a tragedy happens.  Meanwhile, talk to your husband about what kind of boundaries you can both live with where he's concerned.  It can help to write them down.  Boundaries can be anything you decide whether it's money, living in or visiting your home, driving your vehicles, bailing him out of jail, helping him find a ride somewhere, whatever.  It's about what behavior YOU can tolerate or not.  When you decide on those boundaries, also write down consequences if he crosses them.  That's the easy part.  The hard part is enforcing them.  

Try to remind yourself that you're supporting his eventual recovery by allowing him to find his own bottom.  This is a long-standing problem that he has never really dealt with so you can hardly expect him to decide to be sober one fine day and never use again.  As my shrink recently reminded me, addiction is a relapsing disease.  (sigh)  He didn't take the court-ordered rehab seriously because it was never his decision to begin with.  If he ever decides to work a program under his own steam, then you can start to believe that he's begun to deal with his addiction.  It's terribly hard and heartbreaking to stand aside and watch someone we love make horrible and harmful decisions, but that's the only way addicts (and anyone else for that matter) really learn - from having to deal with the consequences of their own mistakes.

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Thank you for getting back with me. I'll check to see if the rehab facility here has Al-Anon meetings for the public....thanks for that info.

My son has been sober for 2 days now (yesterday & today). Yesterday he paid for a motel room for a week on his own without asking me for any money. Today his pickup died on him and he called to tell me about it and said he would walk to his motel room and when I got off work could I take him back to it to see if it would start. Usually he would have asked me to leave work and take him to where he needed to go....so that was good. On his way to the motel he stopped at a Savers and bought a pair of shoes for $15 and a shirt for $8. He then stopped at the grocery store and bought a few groceries. All of this really surprised me because he usually asks me to buy him some groceries and shoes when he needs them. At least he didnt spend his money on drugs.
This is definately progress and I told him today that I was very proud of him. I'm praying for him constantly as is my mother. I guess its one day at a time. I'm thanking God for baby steps.

Thanks again for taking the time to talk with me and for the support. I'll keep you and atthebeach updated.

Deb
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1235186_tn?1339127464
deb if he is taking 130mg of methadone he cant just stop. he will be deathly sick. methadone has to be tapered very slowly. it would take him almost a year to detox off of it. he told you he hasnt taken anything?
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1235186_tn?1339127464
he started the methadone in nov right? he has been on it for 9 months. cold turkey from the dose would definitely make him very sick. the withdrawal from methadone doesnt start until 36-72 hrs from the last dose
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Debbie, I'm so sorry that I didn't make myself clear. When I said 2 days sober, I only meant from the xanax and that he was not in a zombie state. He did put in a request at the methadone clinic to start lowering his dose and they did agree to it. He told me they agreed to go down 1mg a day for 3 days and maintain that amount for 3 days and then go down 1 mg a day for three days and maintain again for 3 days and keep doing this and see how it goes. Do you think something like this would work?

How are you and your family doing?

Hugs,
Deb
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1235186_tn?1339127464
ok great so maybe he had a little wake up call that is a start. he asks to be tapered that is really great. i said slow and steady. a usual taper is a few mgs a month. so that sounds about right.
he did things on his own,another step in the right direction. deb they do eventually come to the realization that their life su cks. some it takes 1 yr some 15 yrs but they finally get sick and tired of the roller coaster and get sick and tired of being sick and tired. they have to first admit it then they act on it. we will keep praying, the LORD'S arm is not to short to reach him and not deaf to our prayers. keep on storming the gates of heaven.
he didnt become an addict over night and will certainly take awhile for him to recover. lets pray that he continues to take baby steps forward.
my family is doing much better by the grace and mercy of our LORD and SAVIOR. it has been 18 months since my husband stopped using and there are repercussions of his use, and consequences of his sins but we are healing day by day.
thank you for asking
sending hugs,blessings and prayers
debbie
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82861_tn?1333457511
Glad to hear that he's taking steps in the right direction.  That's good news!  Is he willing to go to NA or AA?  That's the best free rehab available.  Obviously Debbie knows more about your situation than I do so maybe you've already covered this topic elsewhere.  

I hope and pray you'll find an Al-Anon meeting you can be comfortable with and then get a sponsor of your own.  Will your husband go with you?  It's kind of like starting a gym program.  Getting motivated to walk out the door is like pulling teeth but once you're there you're glad you did it.  We all wish there could be a one-size-fits-all roadmap to recovery, but there isn't.  We can only learn as much as we can and do our best with that information.  Don't give up on yourself!
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JayBay is right about the one-size-fits all--- recovery isn't like that you have to find out what works for you and what works for your family members.  Everyone has their own time too, but I do know that when you start taking steps towards your own recovery too and people start seeing positive changes, they are going to want a little bit of that.  Keep us posted.
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So glad to hear that your family is doing much better and that y'all are continuing to heal. That is such great news and very encouraging for the rest of us.

I will definatley continue with my prayers and I gladly accept your prayers and blessings also. Thank you for your support.

My husband who is my son's step-dad has a real knack for rubbing my son the wrong way. Well, they do this to each other. They were on the phone with each other this morning because my son is having trouble with his ride. My husband got upset and started calling my son names, so my son hangs up on him and comes in my house and tells me the following:

"Well dad is probably mad at me. I just now hung up on him. I don't care if y'all (meaning me and my husband) will admit it or own up to it, but dad is alot of my trouble. I grew up with him always calling me names and me trying my hardest to be the best son I could and never being able to measure up. All I ever wanted was for him to love me like a son."

And then he left all upset. I tried to talk with him, but he just got in his pickup and left really mad. I was worried he might go get some xanax, but I talked with him for just a second a few minutes ago and he was not slurring his words and seemed alert. Thank God! I know this is something he is going to have to work through. I just really wish they could get along. My husband was really hard on him and did call him names when he should not have. My son has done a lot of things that he should not have, but it was only after he got on the drugs. My son was 3 yrs old when I married my current husband and my son's biological father and his family have not been a part of my son's life, so his step-dad is the only dad he has ever known. My son loved him like he was his father, but my husband just recently admitted to my son and I that he probably felt like my son was in the way and probably treated him like it as well.

My son told me that he had put up with name calling all his life and now he is 32 and he isn't going to put up with it any longer. I don't blame him at all. It was though, his decision to do the drugs and I wish he could see that. I had a horrible childhood as well, but I didn't turn to drugs and I dealt with it and tried to move on. I could easily have blamed it on my parents and cut them out of my life, but I chose not to do that. I only hope and pray that Nathan (my son) can come to terms  with everything that has happened and make a better life for himself. I have been in the middle of the two of them my whole marriage and that is almost 29 years now. Please pray with me about all of this.
Hugs & blessings,
Deb
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Thank you for staying in touch.  No, he is not really willing to go to AA or NA. I mentioned this to him yesterday or the day before and he told me he had gone to those meetings for approx 7 to 8 years and it just didn't help him. He just knows too many connections at those meetings and doesnt care to be around them. He is seeing a counselor at the methadone clinic. I'm not sure what all they talk about or how frequently they talk, but the counselor is there for Nathan to reach out to if he will.

No, I don't believe my husband will go with me to Al-Anon meetings. Please read my post to atthebeach, it kind of explains my husband's and my son's relationship. (Sadness)   I also wish there were a roadmap to recovery, but I will follow your advice and learn what I can and do the best I can. I only hope I do what is right and don't continue to make mistakes where my son is concerned. I do know that I have enabled  him because I always felt like my husband was too hard on him so I was way too easy. I always took up for my son when I was talking with my husband and always took up for my husband when talking  with my son. I was only trying to get them to see each other's view. It mostly blew up in my face.

Thank you so much for your support,
Deb
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Hello. Thanks for posting. Please pray for me to be strong and to work on my own recovery like you stated. I know I need to do this. My life has been put on hold for so long now because I have been living my son's life. He drains me. I will keep you posted.

Thanks again,
Deb
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Wow.  Caught in the middle of two strong personalities.  No wonder you haven't been able to live your own life.  Wouldn't it be nice if they could both just grow up and deal with their own issues without dragging you into it?  Maybe that's a boundary you can work on?  Let your husband and your son figure out what kind of relationship they will or won't have all by themselves?  Your son decided to medicate away the stress and disappointment of his life.  You are not responsible for that reaction.  

Don't beat yourself up for your mistakes.  We're only human.  If we don't make mistakes we can't learn from them, right?  Now you're learning.  That's always a good thing.  :-)
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I saw a sign over the summer in a woman's shop and it kind of makes me think of this situation, "Nobody knows what I do around here until I stop doing it"

You said "My life has been put on hold for so long now because I have been living my son's life"  Your son and your husband both have their own path and as much as you want to unite them or change the dynamics between them, it's not your responsibility.  Some relationships like this (father/son) need to hit a bottom and they will never do that as long as we are there preventing it from happening.

No matter what I would certainly advise getting into your own recovery plan and to keep talking.  You have so much to say that needs to come out and I can only imagine the personal goals that you have that may have gone on hold because of this family situation.

You deserve to focus on yourself.  You deserve to be happy and to figure out what makes you happy.  I used to think happiness meant just having a good day with my "alcoholic/addict"--- if they had a good day, I had a good day.  Talk about my focus being way off the mark.  Definitely keep us posted, thanks for coming back here and updating us, we are here to support you:D
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Thank you for sending that quote. Makes perfect sense. I am going to leave town for about 2 weeks on Wednesday. I'm taking my mother to her sister's in New Mexico for a visit.  I think it will be good for the both of us to get out of town.

Its just not my oldest son's life that I have been living instead of my own. My youngest son is 27 and he was diagnosed with schizophrenia about 5 to 6 years ago. My husband and I don't believe its true schizophrenia, but rather a drug indused schizophrenia. When he is clean and not using he does not need his medication, but when he starts using again he starts up with the manic episodes. He is currently doing pretty good. Then there is my mother. My dad died almost 2 years ago and he was my mom's whole life. She doesn't drive and though I have 2 brothers she wants me to be the one that does everything. My husband & I quit going to our church so we could take Mom to her church. I'm the one that takes her to her dr. appointments, grocery store, wal-mart, dollar store, health food store, cemetary....just anywhere she needs to go. I usually take her to town 2,3 and sometimes 4 times a week. My older brother and his family live with her, but when she isn't feeling well she wants me to come and stay the night with her. I really don't mind doing this for her except I really like to be all by myself sometimes. I use to love to go to town by myself. Now anytime I leave my house to go anywhere she wants to go also just so she can get out of her house. I can see where she is coming from cos I would probably be the same if I were in her shoes.

My husband is my son's step father. To my son, my husband was his daddy. We married when he was 3 years old and my ex was not a part of my son's life and never has been (my ex's choice). My husband and I had a son when my son was almost 5 1/2 years old.  It didn't take my son very long to figure out that my husband felt differently about him than he did his brother.  This has always bothered and hurt my son and he has felt rejection his whole life. I guess I feel like its my fault because I'm the one that brought my son into this. It was not his choice for me to remarry and to have a step-dad. My husband admitted to us a while back that he guesses he felt like my son was just in the way and that he probably treated him like that. He expected my son to be perfect and when he wasn't my husband called him names like dumb ***, moron, idiot, dufus and he still does to this day. But he does also call our son and me names also, just not as much as he does my son.

Well I have rambled on way too much. I do thank you very much for your support. My son came over this morning for just a minute to borrow a fan and he still seems to be doing better. AND he showed up at church yesterday morning! I am very thankful. Thank you again for keeping in touch. I will keep y'all updated.

Deb
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82861_tn?1333457511
It's obvious you are a very caring person and I applaud you for that.  But - somewhere along the way you lost sight of yourself and your own dreams and needs.  You took responsibility for other people's lives and that's always a losing proposition.  Give someone an opportunity to take what you're giving and they'll take it every time - addict or not.  I guess it's just the lazy nature of the human animal.

I was in the same position with my mother in the last couple of years of her life and nearly earned a nervous breakdown for my efforts.  I learned that it really was possible to say no, and mean it.  Sure, she got upset and threw temper tantrums, but the world didn't end.  Any time we change our behavior to something that others aren't used to, there will be some kind of emotional response.  Change is difficult and often messy.  

You can't fix other people's relationships.  They have to do that all by themselves.  I hope that at some point your husband can tell your son exactly what he told you.  Your son is the one who really needs to hear that he wasn't imagining the way he was treated as a child, and he needs to hear it from your husband.  He was right to be angry and upset at the injustice of being treated differently than his sibling.  I'm curious as to why your husband thinks it's normal to call his family names like dumbarse, moron, idiot and dufus.  How do you handle it when he does it to you?
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Yes, my husband did tell my son that he didn't know exactly what it was about him that sets him off. He told my son that maybe he was a constant reminder that I had been married and been with a man before him and that maybe he felt like my son was in the way and had probably treated him like that and that he was sorry for that. My word!! It was not my son's fault that I had been married before and if my husband had a problem with the fact that I had been with my ex before him then he should never had asked me to marry him. Take it out on me, not my innocent son. Anyway, to be fair to my husband, he has apologized to my son several different times. It just seems they have a problem moving forward, but it could be due to my son's drug addiction and my son using us for money, etc.

I'm not sure why my husband calls us names. He says he knows he shouldn't, but just gets angry and it comes out. I do know his father was an alcoholic and would come home and beat him, his brother and his mother. He tells me he doesn't remember his dad calling them names but he does remember that if his dad didn't come directly home after work that they all would start worrying because they knew what they were in store for. You know, sometimes we just remember the worst part of our childhood. I guess it may be possible that he was called names and just doesn't remember it cos it was trivial to what else happened. I really don't know the answer as to why he does it. As for how I handle it....sometimes I get angry, sometimes hurt. I ALWAYS tell him that the name calling has got to stop. He says he knows it and will try to do better. He does still call us names, but its not near as often as it use to be.

You are correct, change is very difficult and it sure can be messy. I'm so glad that you pointed out to me that I can't fix other people's relationships. That is exactly what I have been trying to do for years. Why did it take someone telling me this for me to figure it out??  I guess I just wanted it so desperately that I thought I could do it. sigh....
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hey deb,
wow sounds like somethings are improving.PTL. your husband told your son he is sorry that is great. i told my husband to tell us me and my children he is sorry for all the things he put us through and he said i did. i said it is ok if you say it again.he has many times.  has your husband ever been to counseling. it sounds like he might has self-esteem issues, like i tell my kids bullys call other people names because then it makes them feel better about themselves. does your husband attend church with you? that is so awesome that your son came to church. another step in the right direction. did he start a taper yet for the meth? i too have always been a fixer. right now i am trying to "fix" my daughter. she isnt working and she isnt going to school. she is having the hardest time forgiving my husband and moving on. she recently was in a relationship with a guy who was using and she said i taught he that it was ok to stay with an addict. oh boy. my situation married and 4 children is obviously different than hers, but shes right i did enable.she is just now hurt from both her father and her boyfriend. i have to keep reminding myself that the more i try to fix their situations the more it backfires in my face and i am accused of being a nag. i have to be more mindful of letting go and letting GOD.
let we just have to keep believing and keep on trusting, keeping the faith
hugs and prayer
debbie
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Hi Debbie,
Yes, I do think things are improving. Thank the Lord. No, my husband has never gone to counseling. I've mentioned it to him and told him we all ought to go for family counseling as well. He said I was probably right, but as of yet I havent been able to get anyone to go. I went by myself a few years ago, but the counselor said it wasn't doing much good if I couldn't get any of the rest of the family to go also, so I quit going.

Yes, my husband does attend church with me. He was not saved when we first married and smoked pot all the time. He told me he thought he would never be able to quit even when I threatened to divorce him. We had been married for about 6 years and he started going to church with me some just so I wouldnt nag at him, but continued to smoke pot. Then Brother R.W. Schambach came to town and I got my husband to go with me to see him. He gave his life to the Lord that night. He went home and busted all his pipes and flushed the pot and has not gone back to it since then. PTL. He is not as on fire for the Lord now as he was as a new christian, but I know he is saved and loves the Lord. I do wish he would agree to go to counseling.....I believe it would help us all to go.

I will start praying for you and your daughter. It seems nothing hurts as bad as seeing our children struggle and them making wrong decisions. I'm learning I can't live their lives for them though. I'm trying to leave it all in God's hands. Please keep me posted on how your daughter is doing.
Hugs,
Deb
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I'm going out of town for a few days with my mother. I will post an update when I get back. Thank you all for such great support on here. I'm truly blessed.

Hugs to all,
Deb
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Deb we are certainly here for you, post an update when you get a chance :D  Hope you have a safe trip!
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