Aa
I believe there should be some sort of legal action
I've been a member of this site for a few years. I've had my share of addiction battles with painkillers. I've seen and read the hundreds of posts by others who have had to suffer like I have; some much worse than mine. I think it's time we do something about the core of the problem by sending a message to these massive pharmaceutical companies who have pushed their products on good, but naive people knowing full well people like us would get "hooked." I'm just trying to gauge how many people feel the same way? How many people's lives have been ruined or suffered long-term side effects of these painkillers? Enough is enough! The tobacco industry, the asbestos industry and others have long tried to hide the long-term, debilitating and life-threatening effects of their products and have been exposed for their cover-ups! Thoughts?
That scares the hell out of me. I hate taking pain meds? I just keep having to take more and stronger but I don't do well on the stronger but I have no life without pain meds. I barely have one now. I constantly worry about running out. They control me. I hate them/I need them. I can hardly walk at times. I wish my doctor could give me a pill to take the place of Norco and hydroxy for a week or so just to get them out of my system so that I can clean my body of them and to gage my pain and get my resistance down so that they will actually work. He won't though. I'm so desperate. So tired. So sick and tired. Waaaa. I know. I'm whining. Sorry.
1 Comments
Sorry for the repeat post. Not sure how that happened. My opinion as far as information and accountability is that there is no excuse for not knowing. There is the great world of the Web at our fingertips. There is no excuse. I know when I started on pain meds. (norco. Still am after 3 years) I didn't care. I was in so much pain I threw up from it. I would count till I could take another. But I never thought that I would be a statistic still on them. 3 back surgeries later I'm still taking meds ND see no end in site. I want to be put on methadone for just a week to get off meds to lower my resistance. So frustrated.
I see both sides of the debate here. Personally when I started using I was young and had no idea what Norco or Percocett was or what it contained. Let's be honest also, no one reads all the pamphlets that come with medication. If I did I'd never take any medicine because of every side effect possible. Maybe me knowing exactly what norco was the very first time I took it would have made me not use it. Maybe avoiding that use would have prevented the trigger in my brain that became addiction. Now sure at some point I abused them. I realized I liked the high and all of that is on me. Now days sure we have the Internet and media coverage of the dangers of prescription meds but back when I started I literally just thought of it as medicine, no different from Tylenol or Asprin. Maybe if I had known exactly what it was and could do I might have been better off suffering the pain. Now is this the pharmacotical companies fault? No, they didn't cause my addiction. Have they been less then honest about narcotics, yes they have. OxyContin was billed as safe and non addictive because of time release, we see how that turned out. They created thousands of addicts who prob knew nothing of the side effects. I think education and guidelines are in order. Doctors should not be dropping patients who become addicted or shaming them. There should be mandates that they see you through recovery and help instead of releasing you once you've worked up the courage to ask for help. Now some will say there doctors were great and that's amazing but not everyone has that experience. Most are shunned and pushed out a door and notes are passed to other doctors who know your life's story before you call. That's not right, I don't believe many people woke up wanting to be addicts. I believe circumstances arose and the addiction was a biproduct. More education and better mandates for doctors to treat addicts. Maybe even insurance companies paying for treatments.
One of the best things you can do as a pain patient is prove without a doubt, that you are an outstanding patient to your PM Dr. Not only with how you speak, but to help your Dr. with Studies you find, or some new info that might help the Dr. in the future. It shows you are PRO-ACTIVE - and most important - Prove to your Dr. that you are Honest!
It's one thing to know all about your condition / ailment, your RX meds, and why they work for you. The Dr. will view this and see that you have even attempted, or have received treatments to possibly get relief (in my case, for my two no-cure diseases). But, too much info is another thing, and it could cause your Dr. an 'unnecessary' need for caution - "What's the reason the patient is discussing this?" Too much non-essential talk can create "What's with all the details?" and this talk 'could' create questions- "Is this leading up to asking for something more?
However, you can discuss new, (but relevant to you), info. I would do this carefully, not as a know-it-all or some random topic (Dr's are on edge anyway, no need to add to this). This can be a distraction in some way (never a good thing), and when it's too much 'meds' talk, or it sounds like it's leading up to asking for a meds increase or titration up, you gain nothing and waste limited time. Worse, it may remind the Dr. of a current 'problem patient' he has. The patient that always has some kind of problem (always a fantastic story, never normal), or is a constant 'special' requester. I would avoid random-talk and save time for when you really DO have an issue the Dr. can resolve.
I bring my meds and updates for every appt.- anything new or any change from my other Dr.'s to keep him informed. I make copy of emails from/to my Pharmacist about any shortage or problem - this is all about being 100% transparent. At some point, the Dr. he/she will put you in the 'TRUST' file. This takes a while and for some? It Never Happens. The small things do matter, in fact, nowadays, every dang thing, it matters. If Dr. requests you to do something for 'your FILE' to keep him conforming for CDC? Easy=The answer is always YES. Or, you Running late? You call the office. Don't change appt. or forget, unless it can't be helped.
If something happens and you run short, or God-forbid you don't count your RX and it's a week short? You just suffer thru it until appt. Call Pharmacy. Stolen, break-in? Never call unless you have a Police report, seriously. That is a call you SAVE!! Never talk of running out, being short, or blame anything on this issue. It will destroy all you have done as a 'good patient'. Make SURE your other Dr.'s FAX info that is requested - a note, test, whatever. You call or go to other Dr. office. This is what builds TRUST. All this being said? Don't be TOO eager or insincere, either - that can seem ingenuous or much too eager without reason - it raises an eyebrow. Be straight-up truth.
Let your Pharmacist know why you go to various Specialists, what your condition(s) is, and do it by telling them: "In the chance something happened to me, and my Dr. could not be reached, you would know my history." They appreciate this - it shows you trust them. And, occasionally, tell the Staff with your Dr. and Pharmacist "Thank You for treating me with respect and not like some sort of criminal or lesser person." They like the fact you appreciate all they do - and, they know exactly what you mean by 'respect'. I sometimes ask my Pharmacist about other items OTC I may need - I get his / staff opinion and get any info I'm asking about. Oh. And. You value their judgement.
Once you feel like a trusted patient or customer, don't ask for any special favors or treatment. Even if they tell you that you are a good patient-customer. It's not so you can get / ask for favors. And, be patient with everyone! Never be angry or appear upset if something isn't ready or you have to wait 2 hours or one day for RX Sometime? Something is out of the norm. I think it is fine to tell them or ask them IF a certain change can be done. But, add "If not, or you can't, it's not a big deal, ok?" You get better relations with honey, not vinegar.
Remember - it's a 3-way effort when RX is a Scheduled med. It's a relationship with a sensitive and closely monitored part of a RX Healthcare transaction. And, this 3-way transaction involves three parties that KNOW the exact and responsible way to complete RX. It's more intense every day, it seems. None of the 'three' want any problems. For Real. It can cause you, or me, to lose our much needed RX meds for pain, and loss of licenses, with fines and/or jail-time for Physicians & Pharmacists. Be responsible and be as reliable to them as they are to you. This keeps everyone :)
Pain Care has now become a privilege, a priority, and a personal need - it's not a 'right' that is automatic anymore. Much easier to lose treatment or meds for a 'chronic pain' patient, lose it completely, and it's also a LOT harder to obtain a caring Dr. who will treat you. Then, add in new laws to make it harder to fill RX meds - even for a patient with a LONG history and a true need for scheduled meds - and you can see what's a stake. Why so strict?
All due to those who feel like they DON'T need to do anything mentioned above. Trust me on this stuff - the CDC, DEA & FDA have been ordered to ramp-up, and round-up, those who even THINK about gaming the system. Enforcing these Rules, well it is much easier for them now, as there is a VERY high price to pay much to lose, should any 1 of the 3 parties 'ignore-abuse' these Rules (CDC guidelines). Forget 'Red Flags' or warnings - 99% of the time, one strike is all it takes. No longer an easy game, as the consequences become the PAIN!
I've mentioned this post before and another commenter said "Wow, you really do support 'kissing-butt', huh?" Well, I don't think I would use 'that' label, but as I said, IF you value having less pain? I urge you to heed, read my advice on this - with more Death, more O.D.'s, this will only become tougher. And, good luck if you lose your Pain Dr. as all your history, good and bad, it is in your file and your profile for ALL others in the Healthcare system to see). And, all this is only my personal advice to all those who are Chronic Pain Patients who are at the mercy of 'The System' to continue to get RX pain meds. Nothing more. This is up to you.
Try this: Imagine a video game that gets harder as you level-up and that is where the new laws-or new rules are now from the CDC. Ever felt the OTHER pain, the pain of having NO MEDS for your chronic pain? I have felt the wrath of the OTHER pain (the 'no meds' pain) only a couple of times ( like a true visit to Hell), PLUS my daily pain! So, if I'm a 'butt-kisser'? I'm not, but would gladly accept that over feeling that OTHER pain' and if NEVER again? Too soon!
I hope this helps someone out there to be responsible. Don't do something you will regret every moment you breathe and give out ANY reason to be banned from pain relief - your LIFE and your Quality of Life, it will suffer greatly. The ones you love, those who are around you - they TOO will suffer. Don't lose your ability to get your relief, your RX Pain medication. It might truly ruin your life! Sorry this is so long, but it is vitally, so vitally important. Be Responsible! Take care of yourselves all of you.
It's one thing to know all about your condition / ailment, your RX meds, and why they work for you. The Dr. will view this and see that you have even attempted, or have received treatments to possibly get relief (in my case, for my two no-cure diseases). But, too much info is another thing, and it could cause your Dr. an 'unnecessary' need for caution - "What's the reason the patient is discussing this?" Too much non-essential talk can create "What's with all the details?" and this talk 'could' create questions- "Is this leading up to asking for something more?
However, you can discuss new, (but relevant to you), info. I would do this carefully, not as a know-it-all or some random topic (Dr's are on edge anyway, no need to add to this). This can be a distraction in some way (never a good thing), and when it's too much 'meds' talk, or it sounds like it's leading up to asking for a meds increase or titration up, you gain nothing and waste limited time. Worse, it may remind the Dr. of a current 'problem patient' he has. The patient that always has some kind of problem (always a fantastic story, never normal), or is a constant 'special' requester. I would avoid random-talk and save time for when you really DO have an issue the Dr. can resolve.
I bring my meds and updates for every appt.- anything new or any change from my other Dr.'s to keep him informed. I make copy of emails from/to my Pharmacist about any shortage or problem - this is all about being 100% transparent. At some point, the Dr. he/she will put you in the 'TRUST' file. This takes a while and for some? It Never Happens. The small things do matter, in fact, nowadays, every dang thing, it matters. If Dr. requests you to do something for 'your FILE' to keep him conforming for CDC? Easy=The answer is always YES. Or, you Running late? You call the office. Don't change appt. or forget, unless it can't be helped.
If something happens and you run short, or God-forbid you don't count your RX and it's a week short? You just suffer thru it until appt. Call Pharmacy. Stolen, break-in? Never call unless you have a Police report, seriously. That is a call you SAVE!! Never talk of running out, being short, or blame anything on this issue. It will destroy all you have done as a 'good patient'. Make SURE your other Dr.'s FAX info that is requested - a note, test, whatever. You call or go to other Dr. office. This is what builds TRUST. All this being said? Don't be TOO eager or insincere, either - that can seem ingenuous or much too eager without reason - it raises an eyebrow. Be straight-up truth.
Let your Pharmacist know why you go to various Specialists, what your condition(s) is, and do it by telling them: "In the chance something happened to me, and my Dr. could not be reached, you would know my history." They appreciate this - it shows you trust them. And, occasionally, tell the Staff with your Dr. and Pharmacist "Thank You for treating me with respect and not like some sort of criminal or lesser person." They like the fact you appreciate all they do - and, they know exactly what you mean by 'respect'. I sometimes ask my Pharmacist about other items OTC I may need - I get his / staff opinion and get any info I'm asking about. Oh. And. You value their judgement.
Once you feel like a trusted patient or customer, don't ask for any special favors or treatment. Even if they tell you that you are a good patient-customer. It's not so you can get / ask for favors. And, be patient with everyone! Never be angry or appear upset if something isn't ready or you have to wait 2 hours or one day for RX Sometime? Something is out of the norm. I think it is fine to tell them or ask them IF a certain change can be done. But, add "If not, or you can't, it's not a big deal, ok?" You get better relations with honey, not vinegar.
Remember - it's a 3-way effort when RX is a Scheduled med. It's a relationship with a sensitive and closely monitored part of a RX Healthcare transaction. And, this 3-way transaction involves three parties that KNOW the exact and responsible way to complete RX. It's more intense every day, it seems. None of the 'three' want any problems. For Real. It can cause you, or me, to lose our much needed RX meds for pain, and loss of licenses, with fines and/or jail-time for Physicians & Pharmacists. Be responsible and be as reliable to them as they are to you. This keeps everyone :)
Pain Care has now become a privilege, a priority, and a personal need - it's not a 'right' that is automatic anymore. Much easier to lose treatment or meds for a 'chronic pain' patient, lose it completely, and it's also a LOT harder to obtain a caring Dr. who will treat you. Then, add in new laws to make it harder to fill RX meds - even for a patient with a LONG history and a true need for scheduled meds - and you can see what's a stake. Why so strict?
All due to those who feel like they DON'T need to do anything mentioned above. Trust me on this stuff - the CDC, DEA & FDA have been ordered to ramp-up, and round-up, those who even THINK about gaming the system. Enforcing these Rules, well it is much easier for them now, as there is a VERY high price to pay much to lose, should any 1 of the 3 parties 'ignore-abuse' these Rules (CDC guidelines). Forget 'Red Flags' or warnings - 99% of the time, one strike is all it takes. No longer an easy game, as the consequences become the PAIN!
I've mentioned this post before and another commenter said "Wow, you really do support 'kissing-butt', huh?" Well, I don't think I would use 'that' label, but as I said, IF you value having less pain? I urge you to heed, read my advice on this - with more Death, more O.D.'s, this will only become tougher. And, good luck if you lose your Pain Dr. as all your history, good and bad, it is in your file and your profile for ALL others in the Healthcare system to see). And, all this is only my personal advice to all those who are Chronic Pain Patients who are at the mercy of 'The System' to continue to get RX pain meds. Nothing more. This is up to you.
Try this: Imagine a video game that gets harder as you level-up and that is where the new laws-or new rules are now from the CDC. Ever felt the OTHER pain, the pain of having NO MEDS for your chronic pain? I have felt the wrath of the OTHER pain (the 'no meds' pain) only a couple of times ( like a true visit to Hell), PLUS my daily pain! So, if I'm a 'butt-kisser'? I'm not, but would gladly accept that over feeling that OTHER pain' and if NEVER again? Too soon!
I hope this helps someone out there to be responsible. Don't do something you will regret every moment you breathe and give out ANY reason to be banned from pain relief - your LIFE and your Quality of Life, it will suffer greatly. The ones you love, those who are around you - they TOO will suffer. Don't lose your ability to get your relief, your RX Pain medication. It might truly ruin your life! Sorry this is so long, but it is vitally, so vitally important. Be Responsible! Take care of yourselves all of you.
I agree there should be contracts signed and the patient ave a full understanding of the drug or drugs before they are prescribed them. I was given MScontin (morphine pill). I was not told what it could do. I have MS(multiple sclerosis) and like a fool thought ok it's for people with MS. When I stopped using it I flipped out went to ER and was in no mental condition to understand what the ER dr gave me it ws methadone. It caused severe mental anguish andi could not stop taking this horrible drug even though it was killing me. They loaded me up on Valium and OxyContin while I tapered off and became addicted to them as well. After almost a year to taper the methadone and quit at 12.5 mg the withdrawals were horrible they gave me more Valium and OxyContin. I was going to kill myself the Dr was not helping me get off theses drugs properly. I stopped all drugs sept 2014 and it is nov 2014 and the withdrawals are still awful. This is robbing me close to 2 years of my life and I had to go outside my insurance plan to detox safely in another HOSP where they said I almost died. I am still struggling at 64 days off methadone and 43 days off OxyContin and Valium. Medical Drs think that once you stop the drugs you are fine.they don't get that it takes months to years before you return to normal ad that is if your lucky
I got addicted over fifteen years ago and though I think things were different then I really just liked the way they made me feel and the doctor was freely prescribing them so I gobbled them up. I knew I was addicted at some point but kept going anyway. This was before oxycontin even hit big here and I had never really heard of lortab addiction. Granted I did not do any homework nor was I educated by my doctor about addiction but I knowingly took it way past the limit I believe. The only real issue I have with this whole subject is that when suboxone first came into the market I went to the only doctor that could prescribe it in my city and was given 24mg a day for hydrocodone addiction. I was on suboxone for years and that detox was worse than any hydrocodone detox. I just wish my suboxone doctor had been better educated about it. He had good intentions I do believe but he absolutely told me that suboxone would fix my brain and with no withdrawals. This was all long ago and I ended up jumping off suboxone at 8mg and had no idea what was wrong with me until a good two weeks later. I just thought it was stress and/or the worst stomach flu of my life at first because he said there was no way it was from the suboxone. Now reading how people use it as a tool in a fast taper or are tapered down to tiny amounts slowly I wish both my doctor and I had known more at the time instead if after the fact....which as many have mentioned is often the case. I researched it after two full weeks of withdrawals and realized what was going on. I told my doctor and he said that since I was two weeks off if it that I was through the worst part and would be fine. I learne
I agree with you Nursegirl. My doctor did talk to me about addiction and I had to fill out and sign a paper stating that I did not have any previous issues with addiction (a lie). Plus, my pharmacy gave me a ton of paperwork about the possibility of addiction. I think I got 3 pages of paper work with each prescription. And yes, I did have to check the box declining a pharmacist consult. Mostly, I just wanted my pills, and to get the heck out of Dodge.
I take full responsibility and accountability for my addiction. I know that everyone has a specific situation personal to them. This is just my own experience.
I take full responsibility and accountability for my addiction. I know that everyone has a specific situation personal to them. This is just my own experience.
I don't like to hear that doctors aren't doing a good job educating their patients, but that still doesn't absolve the patient of their responsibility. People have to be their OWN advocates. While I KNOW that people take medication all the time without doing ANY kind of homework, or reading the leaflet, it kind of shocks me, to be honest, especially in this age of the internet. It hardly makes sense to try to blame the doctor, pharmacist, or anyone else...when every step along the way, there are all KINDS of opportunities for education.
Anytime I pick up a script from my pharmacy, I have to click the box that says "I decline to speak with the pharmacist regarding this medication" (something to that effect), and sign my name, then my medication has the educational monograph that accompanies every single refill. EVERY single time. It's SO easy to ask to speak to a pharmacist.
If we lived in a world where info was hard to come by, I could see you having a bit of an argument, but goodness, if a patient refuses every opportunity to educate themselves along the way, that's on THEM IMO. Anyone who would blindly take a new medication (ANY medication) without doing some basic reading about it first is acting irresponsible. The doctor is not ultimately responsible for a person's health...that person is responsible for their OWN health. If we depended on our doctors to educate us about every danger or risk, without being proactive for ourselves, there would be a lot of very bad situations.
Anytime I pick up a script from my pharmacy, I have to click the box that says "I decline to speak with the pharmacist regarding this medication" (something to that effect), and sign my name, then my medication has the educational monograph that accompanies every single refill. EVERY single time. It's SO easy to ask to speak to a pharmacist.
If we lived in a world where info was hard to come by, I could see you having a bit of an argument, but goodness, if a patient refuses every opportunity to educate themselves along the way, that's on THEM IMO. Anyone who would blindly take a new medication (ANY medication) without doing some basic reading about it first is acting irresponsible. The doctor is not ultimately responsible for a person's health...that person is responsible for their OWN health. If we depended on our doctors to educate us about every danger or risk, without being proactive for ourselves, there would be a lot of very bad situations.
Lilly, that is the EXACT issue. You hit the nail on the head. A recent decision permitted plaintiffs to maintain a lawsuit against the manufacturers because the doctor DIDN'T explain the addiction aspect of it (and there's no reason to believe he should have known about explaining it). If your doctor didn't explain to you, and you knew nothing about addiction (how could you if he didn't?), who is really to blame? You? You didn't know any better but were only seeking temporary relief from pain.
I was warned in middle school it was called dare. they talked about pills, all my doctors told me its habit forming, I am an addict...Even if I could have fast forwarded my life, I probably would have still taken them, and TBH i wouldnt have beleieved it was me. and I would have said, THAT WONT HAPPEN TO ME...
I am an addict...warn me all day long...and it is still fun
just like the label that says dont drink on them
I had to do it to see...and it was fun
I chose to eat them I chose to go to the dr, I chose to ignore the labels and the doctors and everything else
and I suffer the consequences
I didnt choose to be an addict however
maybe I can go after...God? for that one...THANKS GOD
I am an addict...warn me all day long...and it is still fun
just like the label that says dont drink on them
I had to do it to see...and it was fun
I chose to eat them I chose to go to the dr, I chose to ignore the labels and the doctors and everything else
and I suffer the consequences
I didnt choose to be an addict however
maybe I can go after...God? for that one...THANKS GOD
Man this post has gone a long way..I've stopped using my fentanyl patches, they are going to kill me yet! I don't blame my doctor,I asked about them,when I go back I'm telling her that the fentanyl ant working for me no longer, cause I had 10 of them Thursday its Sunday night (four days) they are gone!!! There are going to end up killing me!!! Yes I'm a addict big time addict!!!! I ate a 1,000 MCG in 4 days!!! I pasted out in a chair on my back porch night before last,I woke up naked on my bathroom floor last night,I don't remember how or way I was in there!!! Its been a eye opener big time!!! I shouldn't be here now! When I go back to my doctor I'm just going to tell her they ant working for me no longer (been on them off and on 3 years!!) But never this bad...as for as blame I blame only me..I was already addicted to oxy's for 10 year's still am. If my friend don't keep me away from them they to would be gone...I get one first thing in the morning, one at lunch one around 6 and one at bed time around 11 pm. They help my pain, fentanyl is just a high for me...don't want to see another one ever again...
So many pros and cons regarding drugs. This is a subject that has no end. "I can, I can't ,I will ,I wont, I believe ,I don't believe, etc. etc. etc. We may ponder the dos and don'ts but in the end the question becomes, " Who is right and who is wrong? The answer is up in the air and will remain there until someone, anyone can solve it to the satisfaction of all.
I think that my dr should have explained the drug to me before prescribing it. He said it would help with pain never mention addiction or withdrawals
I learned a lot reading all of this. And I agree with most of the above thoughts. I am an addict; I was/am responsible from the very first time I took a pill. I happened to have very good doctors who questioned my lies, and who cut me off long before I wanted to be cut off (like never).
I think whenever you have a large group of people in any organization - doctors, police, the military - you will always have bad people within the group. And then it's our responsibility to recognize that and find a doctor who won't over prescribe, etc. (although if I had one of those I probably wouldn't be on this site right now).
It is taking me a long time to come to grips with this, but all of my problems are my fault because I know I'm an addict, but accepted the meds anyway.
I think whenever you have a large group of people in any organization - doctors, police, the military - you will always have bad people within the group. And then it's our responsibility to recognize that and find a doctor who won't over prescribe, etc. (although if I had one of those I probably wouldn't be on this site right now).
It is taking me a long time to come to grips with this, but all of my problems are my fault because I know I'm an addict, but accepted the meds anyway.
I am with you. Life is too short to be in pain - physical or emotional - when there there are things that have been invented to help!
I think there should be some maintenance option that doesn't suck. Low dose opiates work better than any other medicine I've tried for anxiety/depression. Subs have side effects and it scares me that if I have real pain I have to wait those out before I can get treatment. I would be open to a maintenance program with full opiates that included drug testing and working with a doctor. I don't blame the companies, or the doctors for over-prescribing. I blame the system that puts my pain level at a doctor's discretion. The more I say I need meds, the more likely it is I will get a note in my file and never receive them.
I'm not in the "I chose to take them, I chose to get addicted" camp. I'm going to do what I have to to make my life better, period. I'd rather be addicted for life than miserable and always knowing there is something out there that could help but I'm just not allowed.
I'm not in the "I chose to take them, I chose to get addicted" camp. I'm going to do what I have to to make my life better, period. I'd rather be addicted for life than miserable and always knowing there is something out there that could help but I'm just not allowed.
I to enjoy this debate! Everyone has different out looks on things, I love reading about them and sometime changes my opinion on things...I've been on pain killers for about 11 years now and not always had a perspition for them...I know I'm addicted to them, depending on them! My life revoles around them....but like I said if a pill will help me from hurting so bad I'll take it. My now x husband use to get headache's I'll say take a BC he'll say no, I'll say don't keep complaining to me then dum ***!!! Lol...
nursegirl,
I think you misunderstood me. I never said NO ONE should be taking medications. My point - and it is valid and one that's been debated ad nauseum - is that companies are quick to push the pills and promote their product to doctors, telling them it's a "miracle drug" and hoping the doctors will prescribe more for people coming in with minimal to moderate pain. Of course I can understand the need for cancer patients (or anyone in severe pain for a wide-range of reasons).
Also, your point about dependence v. addiction is well-taken. It's not as "massively flawed" as you suggest it is though. While I recognize the difference between the two, they are often conflated into one because one can argue that addiction causes dependence. Furthermore, someone dependent on medications can realize later on when off the medication that they're also addicted to it.
A teenager from my community recently died on an OD from Oxy. Did he really need them? I don't know. But as far as I know, he wasn't suffering from any debilitating illnesses. I mention this case because it's a prime example of someone who most likely began with a first time script and then started abusing because of lack of control. Anyone who has taken oxy knows that can very easily happen! More so for some than others.
I think if it wasn't that big of a deal, why is the FDA tightening their restrictions? Why have counties and states sued these companies for costs associated with drug enforcement? It is a FACT (and you can look this up) that MANY doctors have been "taken care of" by the big Pharma companies to pump and promote the pills. There is no denying that. They are not targeting cancer patients, as you suggest. They know doctors can and will prescribe for those illnesses. They're targeting people with acute pain and marketing it as if there are no issues. When I asked my doctor to get me off, he couldn't care less. He prescribed me another 180 pills and told me to just reduce the amount and don't have anything to worry about. Although I'm off of it, there's no denying the urge is still there and will always remain there. So the representations by doctors that "you won't get hooked" is a joke. Stopping and tapering are completely different elements than quitting for good, which is why so many people, including myself, have had relapses.
I thank you for your well-thought response. I'm really enjoying this discussion and learning different people's perspectives...
I think you misunderstood me. I never said NO ONE should be taking medications. My point - and it is valid and one that's been debated ad nauseum - is that companies are quick to push the pills and promote their product to doctors, telling them it's a "miracle drug" and hoping the doctors will prescribe more for people coming in with minimal to moderate pain. Of course I can understand the need for cancer patients (or anyone in severe pain for a wide-range of reasons).
Also, your point about dependence v. addiction is well-taken. It's not as "massively flawed" as you suggest it is though. While I recognize the difference between the two, they are often conflated into one because one can argue that addiction causes dependence. Furthermore, someone dependent on medications can realize later on when off the medication that they're also addicted to it.
A teenager from my community recently died on an OD from Oxy. Did he really need them? I don't know. But as far as I know, he wasn't suffering from any debilitating illnesses. I mention this case because it's a prime example of someone who most likely began with a first time script and then started abusing because of lack of control. Anyone who has taken oxy knows that can very easily happen! More so for some than others.
I think if it wasn't that big of a deal, why is the FDA tightening their restrictions? Why have counties and states sued these companies for costs associated with drug enforcement? It is a FACT (and you can look this up) that MANY doctors have been "taken care of" by the big Pharma companies to pump and promote the pills. There is no denying that. They are not targeting cancer patients, as you suggest. They know doctors can and will prescribe for those illnesses. They're targeting people with acute pain and marketing it as if there are no issues. When I asked my doctor to get me off, he couldn't care less. He prescribed me another 180 pills and told me to just reduce the amount and don't have anything to worry about. Although I'm off of it, there's no denying the urge is still there and will always remain there. So the representations by doctors that "you won't get hooked" is a joke. Stopping and tapering are completely different elements than quitting for good, which is why so many people, including myself, have had relapses.
I thank you for your well-thought response. I'm really enjoying this discussion and learning different people's perspectives...
I agree with you, pain meds are out there for helping people with real chronic pain, I've been in a motorcycle accident in 2003 was out of work for almost a year, if it want for my meds I couldn't have gone back to work for another 9 year's till I got breast cancer and once again thank God for meds... Yes now I'm depended on them now cause I wouldn't be able to injoy life , being in pain 24 7 ***** and if there's something to give me a good quality of live I'll take it!
The medications themselves isn't inherently bad...far from it.
Correction...."aren't" not "isn't"
Correction...."aren't" not "isn't"
You're applying all of the same "rules" per se to addiction and dependency, when they DO differ quite a bit.
"Given these circumstances, how does someone who innocently began taking something prescribed for a legitimate reason know that he would have been addicted and can't survive without them. Lost his family and/or job. Lost friends. May have health issues. How do you know this would have happened?"
The above statements you're making sounds more relevant to addiction versus dependency. While dependent people often have to endure physical w/d, they don"t usually suffer the kinds of consequences you described. Sure, some people DO end up with addiction issues after being only dependent, but again, I think you're lumping both together, which changes the argument a bit.
As far as the unknown? Well, how would you answer that for ANY kind of risk that you would consent to? The risk that you could have a life threatening complication during a very simple routine test or surgery? You read the consent form carefully, including the fine print. The test/surgery isn't something you NEED, but it is something that could potentially help you. So, how would you apply the logic you're relating to opiates to that?
"No one in their right mind would put themselves through that knowing what THEY KNOW NOW! "
Of course they would. If you're talking about dependency (not addiction), it's just a fact when dealing with opiates, and people who need them are willing to put up with tolerance and w/ds to benefit from the medication
Just like someone enduring hellish chemo cancer treatment. You want to talk about a medication/treatment that causes some people to be in misery 24/7? There you go. So, should they not make it anymore because it has those effects? Should people not consent to the treatment because of the unknown?
I understand your argument, I just think it's massively flawed, and you're trying to make it cut and dry, and put the connotation that all opiates are bad and no one should take them or they shouldn't be made available.
There are MORE people who benefit from opiates when used appropriately without any problems than there are people who end up living a nightmare and becoming an addict. The medications themselves isn't inherently bad...far from it.
I just REALLY think you're applying the issues of addiction to opiates across the board, even to dependency, which differs quite a bit.
"Given these circumstances, how does someone who innocently began taking something prescribed for a legitimate reason know that he would have been addicted and can't survive without them. Lost his family and/or job. Lost friends. May have health issues. How do you know this would have happened?"
The above statements you're making sounds more relevant to addiction versus dependency. While dependent people often have to endure physical w/d, they don"t usually suffer the kinds of consequences you described. Sure, some people DO end up with addiction issues after being only dependent, but again, I think you're lumping both together, which changes the argument a bit.
As far as the unknown? Well, how would you answer that for ANY kind of risk that you would consent to? The risk that you could have a life threatening complication during a very simple routine test or surgery? You read the consent form carefully, including the fine print. The test/surgery isn't something you NEED, but it is something that could potentially help you. So, how would you apply the logic you're relating to opiates to that?
"No one in their right mind would put themselves through that knowing what THEY KNOW NOW! "
Of course they would. If you're talking about dependency (not addiction), it's just a fact when dealing with opiates, and people who need them are willing to put up with tolerance and w/ds to benefit from the medication
Just like someone enduring hellish chemo cancer treatment. You want to talk about a medication/treatment that causes some people to be in misery 24/7? There you go. So, should they not make it anymore because it has those effects? Should people not consent to the treatment because of the unknown?
I understand your argument, I just think it's massively flawed, and you're trying to make it cut and dry, and put the connotation that all opiates are bad and no one should take them or they shouldn't be made available.
There are MORE people who benefit from opiates when used appropriately without any problems than there are people who end up living a nightmare and becoming an addict. The medications themselves isn't inherently bad...far from it.
I just REALLY think you're applying the issues of addiction to opiates across the board, even to dependency, which differs quite a bit.
Not sure I agree, but that's fine.
What I still am not clear about - and no one seems to have answered this. A hypothetical may be more illustrative and helpful: you go to a doctor for back pain. He prescribes you 30 oxy. You fill it at your pharmacy and pick it up. You read through the fine print warnings and say to yourself "ok, doesn't apply to me." You find yourself taking the pills on a daily basis. The problem persists for months and then years. Eventually, you know full well you don't even need the pills but are just supporting your habit and/or afraid to get off because you don't want to get sick. You are hooked.
Hypothetical is over. Given these circumstances, how does someone who innocently began taking something prescribed for a legitimate reason know that he would have been addicted and can't survive without them. Lost his family and/or job. Lost friends. May have health issues. How do you know this would have happened? Based on the fine-print warnings? Because a friend told you once "opiates can be addicting?" It's all subjective and how can you answer the unknown? I've heard from dozens of asbestos plaintiffs "if i knew back then what it really did to you, I never would have used those products..." Doesn't the same logic apply? No one in their right mind would put themselves through that knowing what THEY KNOW NOW! Any logical responses that make sense? Yes, I'm aware of personal accountability. But how do you explain the unknown?
What I still am not clear about - and no one seems to have answered this. A hypothetical may be more illustrative and helpful: you go to a doctor for back pain. He prescribes you 30 oxy. You fill it at your pharmacy and pick it up. You read through the fine print warnings and say to yourself "ok, doesn't apply to me." You find yourself taking the pills on a daily basis. The problem persists for months and then years. Eventually, you know full well you don't even need the pills but are just supporting your habit and/or afraid to get off because you don't want to get sick. You are hooked.
Hypothetical is over. Given these circumstances, how does someone who innocently began taking something prescribed for a legitimate reason know that he would have been addicted and can't survive without them. Lost his family and/or job. Lost friends. May have health issues. How do you know this would have happened? Based on the fine-print warnings? Because a friend told you once "opiates can be addicting?" It's all subjective and how can you answer the unknown? I've heard from dozens of asbestos plaintiffs "if i knew back then what it really did to you, I never would have used those products..." Doesn't the same logic apply? No one in their right mind would put themselves through that knowing what THEY KNOW NOW! Any logical responses that make sense? Yes, I'm aware of personal accountability. But how do you explain the unknown?
Wow I must of missed this..So this is the post that you were telling me about CIK..
Well I never went to a Dr and got any meds as I was growing up..at the age 14 I took some bennies. I continued to tap in street drugs no matter what they where & drink off & on..From Speed, Coke, Lsd, Mushrooms, Pcp, Angle dust,Pot, Thc, downers/uppers and so on and so fourth. I only used these recreational & a lot of them just once because I did not like the feeling. I could always walk away when I got burned out on something. Then back in 1983 I got hooked on the Crank as I was drinking with it too..This was my escape from the pain of my little brother dieing. As years went by my drug use got further apart, but I was drinking on occasions here and there and it started to be a daily thing. SO I never even new about Addiction or what a Addict was about..Nothing was ever going to happen to me..HA! Then back in the 90s I got prescribed my first opiate. I took them right and by the time I took the last one I was done. I was OK for a awhile with out these meds..Then I got a few for my female pain in the late 90s..This is where I did get out of control..Even my Dr would only give me 20 a month for female pain.I would always run short of my meds for all these years and spent lots of money and time driving and waiting to get some more. .It was ME who played the game to get a stronger lasting med called Methadone.
We had a DR come through this town and pull everyone off of this drug..he said it was for Bone Marrow patience and for ones who need off heroin. SO I just played the game and got it back because I had some up coming surgery. This went on & on until my Dr told me she would have to taper me. As she did taper me down I wanted more..The whole time, for many years I would play the game to get more and any opiate would due.. Then I started to add the Adderall ( i do not have adhd) to my Methadone to stretch them out a bit..This too me, in my own head was like legal Crank..It made me feel just like my Crank days but with out the jitters. I have never been to much into the Benzo or Valiums, but I would take one to come down. "This is when I knew I was in BIG trouble because I could NOT walk away anymore". This went on for almost 16 years. Sure I went to work and paid off my property and my trucks and such. I would come home and do all kinds of work inside and out even late at night in the dark.
It took a voice from a stranger that my Dad new to make me wake up. I had no idea how spun I was and I was getting worse..By then I knew I needed help and that "YES" I am a Addict. I always new about Alcoholics which I thought I was not because I did not drink everyday..Ya right!
Since then I have studied this in a Scientific way and it has been proven that we can be born with a D-2 Gene which can contribute to us becoming addictive.
I went into a re-hab where I had learned alot about this disease. When I was in there I was SO mad that I wanted to write a book and call it.."The Drug Pushers in the White Jackets"..Now I have come so far that I know it is NOT the DRUG, but what WE want the drug to do for us..Some like drugs to make them go down and out, and others like them to get all jacked up..Many drugs affect the brain in different ways, making this a big part of what we want out of this drug. Addiction comes in MANY forms..Like Gambling, Sex, Choclet, Shopping etc.
I am not going to blame the Dr or Pharmacies now because I do know now they have really gotten way strict about prescribing these meds in our town..Some Dr will ask about your Family History so they can take it from there. Some Dr will even do a swab in the mouth to see if you have this gene. I know a girl that had a swab test come out positive, because her Mom was a BAD alcoholic and she made the decision never to touch anything. OK! NOW when I was going to school back in the 60-70s, all I had seen was a Egg being friend in a pan and saying this is your Brain on drugs. My Mom used to say they should of scrambled it..yes maybe that would of hit home a bit. BUT when we are young we also think NOTHING is going to happen to us. Addiction does not happen over night either..It takes years to build up in many areas of the brain and for many reason.
I do think they need to push this Disease in a more Scientific way and show what drugs hit what part of the Brain, and how the good Chems/Hormones get knocked down a bit..Also about the Midbrain (pleasure part) which is the survival part..Any Addicting thing takes over this part of the Brain, then we become so hooked that nothing else matter but what gives us this pleasure..Water, Sex, Air, nothing but the seeking of this pleasure. We now are using to Live and Living to use or find that pleasure..We love those Dopamine Surges that we get too.
I was getting involved at my Meetings to go around the schools and talk with these kids about this until my health took a turn..BUT it will get better as long as I do not SMOKE..OK there is another one..I told the Heart Dr why do they not make these illegal if you are seeing so many people with Heart issues due to this..Well number one it is there Job security, but they do care..he said that it is our Choice to take what we want..Well BS!! I would of been better off (if I was not a Addict) to take a pill vs the Cigs..However it all intertwines together and will destroy our heath in many ways..WE ARE WHAT WE EAT!!!
SO!! I will not blame anyone BUT I sure do think they should have a hour education class at the schools every day..They can show films on people, places and things that got destroyed by drinking or driving under the influence on anything..They can teach them all about the Chems/Hormones and Transmitters and such in the Brain..They can teach them what drug hits what area and so on and so fourth..A Kid will be a Kid and do what ever they are going to do..However, I do think this will make them think a bit more before they do mess up there Brain..Sometimes the Brain can or will not balance back 100% either after drug or alcohol use..CIGS are the WORSE!! They do just as much if not more damage to the whole body/brain system!!
OH WHAT A WORLD WE LIVE IN...BUT IT IS UP TO US TO DO OUR HOMEWORK & HELP TEACH OUR KIDS!! I just partied all the time with my family & friends and there friends. Ha!!
Just be very GRATEFUL for what YOU have Just For Today!!!
PS..Sorry I got off the subject a bit..I was just trying to point out that it is not always from the Drs or Pharmacies and that it can happen anywhere. It is our choice now on what we do..
Bless
Well I never went to a Dr and got any meds as I was growing up..at the age 14 I took some bennies. I continued to tap in street drugs no matter what they where & drink off & on..From Speed, Coke, Lsd, Mushrooms, Pcp, Angle dust,Pot, Thc, downers/uppers and so on and so fourth. I only used these recreational & a lot of them just once because I did not like the feeling. I could always walk away when I got burned out on something. Then back in 1983 I got hooked on the Crank as I was drinking with it too..This was my escape from the pain of my little brother dieing. As years went by my drug use got further apart, but I was drinking on occasions here and there and it started to be a daily thing. SO I never even new about Addiction or what a Addict was about..Nothing was ever going to happen to me..HA! Then back in the 90s I got prescribed my first opiate. I took them right and by the time I took the last one I was done. I was OK for a awhile with out these meds..Then I got a few for my female pain in the late 90s..This is where I did get out of control..Even my Dr would only give me 20 a month for female pain.I would always run short of my meds for all these years and spent lots of money and time driving and waiting to get some more. .It was ME who played the game to get a stronger lasting med called Methadone.
We had a DR come through this town and pull everyone off of this drug..he said it was for Bone Marrow patience and for ones who need off heroin. SO I just played the game and got it back because I had some up coming surgery. This went on & on until my Dr told me she would have to taper me. As she did taper me down I wanted more..The whole time, for many years I would play the game to get more and any opiate would due.. Then I started to add the Adderall ( i do not have adhd) to my Methadone to stretch them out a bit..This too me, in my own head was like legal Crank..It made me feel just like my Crank days but with out the jitters. I have never been to much into the Benzo or Valiums, but I would take one to come down. "This is when I knew I was in BIG trouble because I could NOT walk away anymore". This went on for almost 16 years. Sure I went to work and paid off my property and my trucks and such. I would come home and do all kinds of work inside and out even late at night in the dark.
It took a voice from a stranger that my Dad new to make me wake up. I had no idea how spun I was and I was getting worse..By then I knew I needed help and that "YES" I am a Addict. I always new about Alcoholics which I thought I was not because I did not drink everyday..Ya right!
Since then I have studied this in a Scientific way and it has been proven that we can be born with a D-2 Gene which can contribute to us becoming addictive.
I went into a re-hab where I had learned alot about this disease. When I was in there I was SO mad that I wanted to write a book and call it.."The Drug Pushers in the White Jackets"..Now I have come so far that I know it is NOT the DRUG, but what WE want the drug to do for us..Some like drugs to make them go down and out, and others like them to get all jacked up..Many drugs affect the brain in different ways, making this a big part of what we want out of this drug. Addiction comes in MANY forms..Like Gambling, Sex, Choclet, Shopping etc.
I am not going to blame the Dr or Pharmacies now because I do know now they have really gotten way strict about prescribing these meds in our town..Some Dr will ask about your Family History so they can take it from there. Some Dr will even do a swab in the mouth to see if you have this gene. I know a girl that had a swab test come out positive, because her Mom was a BAD alcoholic and she made the decision never to touch anything. OK! NOW when I was going to school back in the 60-70s, all I had seen was a Egg being friend in a pan and saying this is your Brain on drugs. My Mom used to say they should of scrambled it..yes maybe that would of hit home a bit. BUT when we are young we also think NOTHING is going to happen to us. Addiction does not happen over night either..It takes years to build up in many areas of the brain and for many reason.
I do think they need to push this Disease in a more Scientific way and show what drugs hit what part of the Brain, and how the good Chems/Hormones get knocked down a bit..Also about the Midbrain (pleasure part) which is the survival part..Any Addicting thing takes over this part of the Brain, then we become so hooked that nothing else matter but what gives us this pleasure..Water, Sex, Air, nothing but the seeking of this pleasure. We now are using to Live and Living to use or find that pleasure..We love those Dopamine Surges that we get too.
I was getting involved at my Meetings to go around the schools and talk with these kids about this until my health took a turn..BUT it will get better as long as I do not SMOKE..OK there is another one..I told the Heart Dr why do they not make these illegal if you are seeing so many people with Heart issues due to this..Well number one it is there Job security, but they do care..he said that it is our Choice to take what we want..Well BS!! I would of been better off (if I was not a Addict) to take a pill vs the Cigs..However it all intertwines together and will destroy our heath in many ways..WE ARE WHAT WE EAT!!!
SO!! I will not blame anyone BUT I sure do think they should have a hour education class at the schools every day..They can show films on people, places and things that got destroyed by drinking or driving under the influence on anything..They can teach them all about the Chems/Hormones and Transmitters and such in the Brain..They can teach them what drug hits what area and so on and so fourth..A Kid will be a Kid and do what ever they are going to do..However, I do think this will make them think a bit more before they do mess up there Brain..Sometimes the Brain can or will not balance back 100% either after drug or alcohol use..CIGS are the WORSE!! They do just as much if not more damage to the whole body/brain system!!
OH WHAT A WORLD WE LIVE IN...BUT IT IS UP TO US TO DO OUR HOMEWORK & HELP TEACH OUR KIDS!! I just partied all the time with my family & friends and there friends. Ha!!
Just be very GRATEFUL for what YOU have Just For Today!!!
PS..Sorry I got off the subject a bit..I was just trying to point out that it is not always from the Drs or Pharmacies and that it can happen anywhere. It is our choice now on what we do..
Bless
I see your point. At one point I was both extremely angry and alarmed at what one could purchase off the net. The main thing I voiced out at the time was concerning the possible 'bad' stuff children/young teenagers could possibly obtain. Looking back though, it was my way of alerting those around me what I was at risk of purchasing, in an odd way to protect and help myself! It just sounded better, and far more mature to focus concern for the youth. I have some difficult mental health problems including self-harm and unhealthy coping skills within my main disorder of B.P.D. I knew I lacked ability to take responsibility for my own health and safety. I agree to an extent about preying on the vulnerable.
However, on the flip side. Firstly I realized that I had time to think. I knew I was able to understand an action to be wrong;. ' I then proved to myself that I did not lack the ability to take responsibility for my own health and safety' - A negative concept I had of myself was changed. At the end of the day, I hope that others gain belief in their ability to make educated choices. Surely none of us want to be dictated to, the weak can't always be victims even if they want to be - of which even I have proved!! :-) unfinished.....Beanie0 -).
However, on the flip side. Firstly I realized that I had time to think. I knew I was able to understand an action to be wrong;. ' I then proved to myself that I did not lack the ability to take responsibility for my own health and safety' - A negative concept I had of myself was changed. At the end of the day, I hope that others gain belief in their ability to make educated choices. Surely none of us want to be dictated to, the weak can't always be victims even if they want to be - of which even I have proved!! :-) unfinished.....Beanie0 -).
I await to hear your proposition and strategy. Nursegirl makes a good point, even at 2 years I have to weigh the benefits and costs of focusing on saving the world and saving myself. I want to do them both and figure I bought 30 years by quitting drugs. This will be a life long battle, myself as well as fighting corruption. We already won, because we are clear enough to even care. Risk the clarity and we lose. We must choose our battles wisely.
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Addiction: Social Community
Is treating glaucoma with marijuana all hype, or can hemp actually help?
If you think marijuana has no ill effects on your health, this article from Missouri Medicine may make you think again.
Julia Aharonov, DO, reveals the quickest way to beat drug withdrawal.
Tricks to help you quit for good.
A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
