Scared nurse and mom - taking too much Norco & Oxy

[swany]

Hi everyone,
I am a 42 mother and nurse.  I'm not sure that I'm on the right forum for myself.  I was taken off of work by a neurosurgeon due to my horrible back about 2 years ago.  I finally had an MRI after suffering with back and leg pain that had gotten progressively worse over about 5 years.  The MRI confirmed that my back was in pretty bad shape.  Consequently, I was started on Vicodin.  You all now the story.  I had to take more and more to get the same relief that I had gotten in the beginning.  Now I'm on Norco in the day time (up to 12 a day which I take.....and more) and I'm supposed to take the Oxy at night and in the morning.  Well, I started taking the Oxy in between my Norco doses and on top of that taking too much Norco.  The problem for me is that I have to take 3 Norco to get any relief and I wake up EVERY DAY at 3:00 AM due to pain!!  So.....as you can see my day is LONG!!!!  This causes me to have to take way too many pills!!  I have a wonderful husband who has no idea that I'm struggling with this (he worries and he has enough on his plate!)  and two WONDERFUL boys 16 and 13.  I'm afraid that I can't stop totally taking these meds because I have terrible pain that I can't tolerate without them.  Am I in the wrong place here or does anyone have any advice as to how I can get back down to a reasonable dosage with my meds.
PLEASE.........anyone!!  Any advice would be so very much appreciated.  I'm too embarrassed to share this information with anyone in my life.  I just don't know how I let myself get so screwed up like this!  I have no Oxy right now because I'm out, so I am trying very hard to get myself down to approx. maybe 16 today.  It's so hard because my leg hurts so much!  ANY ADVICE WOULD BE AWESOME!!!
swany

[savemyself]

Take vitamin D 2000 units a day and it will help bone pain and kill the strong urge to take a vic. Try it and see if 2000 does not work try it twice a day. If we can take pain killers we have to atleast try to prevent the pain fro the start.

[julez111]

Hi swany I'm Julez and I totally know what your going threw and how you feel alone and scared of how out of control it's gotten. I am and addict myself to pain killers well I was but now I'm on subtext but something that really helped me get down to a lower dose so I could of made a transfer on to the subs was I had my boyfriend hold on to my pills and he would keep them in a safe which I did not know the combo to because it was his but he would give me what I needed and each week he would knock a bill out so I could get low on the pills but you don't do this all at once like if I was doing 10 a day he would take one pill away and I'd take 9 for like a week and so on and once I got down to a low enough amount like 5 he would start taken more away this time cause my body has gotten used to it being so low by now so he would take 1 1/2 instead of just one. I don't know how your husband is or understanding at all and I'm sure it would be very scarey to try and talk to him about it but he does have some idea right cause he knows your on these meds? Have you been acting any different since you been taken more where he has noticed something is up? My advice is I think you should sit down with him and have a talk and I would just tell him to hear me out and try to understand where your coming from that your usage has become a little out of control and before it gets worst you need his help and to be there for you and support you. You really need him as your partner right now and to be there for you. You really need someone's help because it never works trying to do this on your own. I have helped a few people by getting off and coming down on a low doseage and the way I was just telling you about works great it really does because you don't have the control over them so then you can't abuse your meds. It is also a lot of metal with this then just feeling is your body. Let me know what you think and if there's something you like advice on or if I could help you somehow from my own experiences I would gladly do so. Thanks Julez

[equalizer6837]

I wrote an article about GABAPENTIN in the addiction forum yesterday. You are a Nurse so you should have no problem getting access to this non-narcotic answer to possibly help you. It worked wonderfully for me and I was taking Norco 10-325 for ten years. I quit in a month with absolutely no DT's,

[MamasitaX5]

I read your posts from 2007 and felt like you were telling my story... I wanted to hear your update. Any advice is welcome. Thank you!

[swany]

Hi tzt,
I went out for my walk.  It was extremely painful, but I did it!  I thought I mine as well go and that well get rid of one hour.  Came home I logged my pain at a 8-9.  I took 3 Norco.  I'm kind of bummed that I couldn't get myself to only take 2 but I hurt SO, SO bad!  Guess what I did?  No turning back now.  I called and left a message on Maggie's (the nurse at my pain management doctor) phone.  I told her that I was having trouble with the meds and I didn't want to be a slave to them any more.  I asked if I could see Dr. Schuller sooner (hopefully he's not on vacation) or if he would even just call me (he does that....he's great).  So, that's that.  What do you think?  Do you think that I should have done this?  What should I tell him.  I'm so afraid that he will be mad at me for betraying him and going over what has been prescribed.  Do you have any thoughts as to what I should say to him?  I'm feeling really bad right now.  OMG.....I really don't know if I can do this tzt!!  Please write back!

[tzt2lady]

Dear I have to admit I have never seen anyone with a script that large, 360 is quite a bit. Espcecially coupled with the oxys.   The suboxone is a great plan as my friend Lonote has said and when I called a sub doctor he told me that it does help with pain as well.   I think that this would be a great idea later down the line for you.  But for right now, today, I think we need to get you on a controlled taper plan.

The valium is a good idea for helping you sleep.  The soma I would always take with my norcos.   Last time I kicked the norcos I used soma and if nothing else, it helped me to relax a bit so I think those are good to, but take as directed on the bottle.   I personally use xanax for sleep and it works very well for me.  I am using it two nights on and one night off just to keep the dose down.  Xanax withdrawals are worse than norco withdrawal I have heard.  

Once we get back down to 12 then we can go from there.  Sometimes its easier to take baby steps.  Also, I really believe something to help you sleep through the night would help so much.  The valium might help for that.  Also the soma would help me a little.

Now the xanax I would only take one tablet at night at bedtime and no more.  

So we have you at 16 or 17 today already.  How is your pain?  Please make a log and rate it on a scale of 0 - 10 along with how much meds you take.   Most of us lose track of our pain cuz we lose track of reality in many ways.  Oh we are still functional professional people who go through our day but we arent ourselves.   These drugs are the sneakiest addicting drugs I have ever come across cuz they arent even THAT good and in many cases only curb the pain.  

How are you feeling now?
hugs
tzt

[lonote]

Welcome here!! They are alot of help, and they have big hearts.

[swany]

I know!  It's amazing.  tzt is helping me to taper and I just cried all morning because I have felt so alone.  I'm afraid to tell my doctor in fears that he will cut me off completely.  I just can't handle the pain without them.  So, I do have a legitament reason for being on them.  I just let myself get out of control like an idiot!  
Thanks for the welcome.  You are all so great!!

[swany]

I did look that up and it sounds great.  I was telling tzt that I'm not sure I AM addicted.  I know I'm physically dependant but I do have terrible back and right leg pain and I just don't think I can take it without relief.  I just need to get myself back down because I have let myself get out of control with the amount I have been taking.  I just kept trying to get rid of the pain (which ain't gonna happen!).  It can be lessened but it will never completely go away.  I thank you so much for this because, even as a nurse, I have never heard of this drug.  So again.......thank you so very much!  AND......those girls do rock!!  Everyone has been so helpful and kind and I appreciate it more than you know.

[lonote]

Perhaps if I didn't mispell my friends names it would look beetter.tzt2 and marcatj. sorry ladies!

[swany]

I so would rather not refill them at all.....but I just can't go without anything!  I feel that I think that is why I'm having withdrawal symptoms now is because I was taking both Norco AND Oxy.  Now of course I only have the Norco.  So even if I did only take 12 Norco, I was also taking the Oxy first thing in the morning (2) and in the evening before bed (2) and I would take 1-1.5 sometimes in between my Norco doses if I would start hurting.

[lonote]

Did my suggustion of suboxone fall upon deaf ears? Its only an idea but it saved my azz fron the terrible w/d's and helped me move forward. Do you gals know whay it is? Ever hear of it? yeo those girls that are helping you are my friends out here they rock , don't they. That be you tzt1 and marcatj

[swany]

I take that back on the Oxy.  That was when I only took Oxy and was also allowed 12/day.  Now, of course, I will not be allowed that many.  Maybe 4.  So the number will be way down from that.  My Norco is now 360 because he allows me 12/day, so x 30 that is 360.

[swany]

How pathetic.  I'm answering back so quickly because I'm sitting here hitting my refresh button about every 30 seconds......lol.  I'm kind of confused with you.  You had your surgery on July 19 and you were prescribed Norco for post-op pain?  You had only been off of them for a couple of weeks?  
YES!!!  It is so true that even though you are eating them like candy....the pain never really decreases any more than the little bit of relief that they give you.  We're just beating our head up against a brick wall!  I will start keeping a log.  That is a good idea.
I don't really like Oxy either.  It makes me very sleepy.  Ya.......I only have 194 (that sounds like SO, SO, SO much.....most people would be like "OH MY GOD"!!) left to get me through until the last day of this month.  That allots me to have maybe 8 per day!  So you see what my dilema is.  I just figured if I fill the Oxy at least that would get me through this tapering and I would just replace the Norco with the Oxy until I taper down.  Then I will NEVER REFILL IT AGAIN!!!  What do you think?  My Oxy's are 30 mg and I take 2.  My doctor is very generous and I get 360 to last me for a month, same with the Norco.  Is that crazy?  I haven't seen anyone else like this on here.  Is that outrageous or have you seen this?  

[swany]

I'm sorry.......one more thing.  I have 5 Valium left after being prescribed probably 5-6 years ago for flying (I HATE FLYING!!!)  Should I try those to sleep at night?  I also have left over Soma which I never took from a long time ago.  Maybe I should try that?  What do you think?  I know they're not for sleep, but I know they probably would help me to sleep.  Just another thought.  THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!  I see you post to so many people in need.  You are just AWESOME (I may be over-using that word.....lol).  You are helping me more than you know.  I felt at my wits end today and just absolutely desperate and alone.  I can't tell you what you mean to me already and I've only known you for a couple of hours..........lol.

[tzt2lady]

16 or 17 for today is a great step!    I found that when I first had this surgery on July 19 I knew Id be back on pain meds (id been off for a few weeks prior) and had a plan to help keep myself on track.

Although I spiraled outta control pretty quickly, I do know that when I logged in myown personal notebook what I was taking, how much, and even gave my pain a rating on a scale from 1 - 10, it really helped me a lot.
When I stopped doing that, I ate the pills like candy.  Just went way crazy with them.  Weird thing is, the pain was about the same no matter what I did.   I dont know if there is a point when no matter how many you take the drug has done all its gonna do or what.

On those oxys.   They are known to be more addicting than the norcos for most.   I had some with my surgery and didn't like them.  I am a Norco girl all the way.  This is another symtom of addiction, having our own drug of choice.  
But we need to get you through.    hmmm.   You know what I started doing when I was trying to taper my norcs this time?   I would wake up in the middle of the night and take either aleve or extra strength tylenol pm.   It actually helped me and I was so afraid of killing my liver I would not let myself have any more of anything with tylenol in it for 4 hours.   Some other members are using advil for break through pain.  

What strength are your oxys?   How many do you have to take at a time to get relief and how often.  Also how many will you get and how long before you can refill your norco?  You may have already answered this.  

Swany, so many people stepped up to help me when I got here and it is my pleasure to chat with you.  Right now you are helping me cuz its my first day without my vicodins and although the ultram helps, I only get it 3 times in a 24 hr period and so I do have to space my doses,  Helping others if I can helps me at the same time and look at the cool people I get to meet!  People like you, my new friend Swany!
hugs
tzt

[swany]

I can't imagine the pain of heroine withdrawal.  I had a friend in high school who helped another one of our friends detox from heroine.  She had some stories to tell man!!  AWEFUL!!!  I am feeling so hopeful at this moment.  I KNOW that I can get this back under control.  I think I just took a detour and believe me, it has scared me enough to never let this happen again!!  I hope your there to tell me what you think.  Also, I just wanted to tell you that I used to be a runner before I realized how bad my back was.  Now I walk for one hour a day and for the past month I have also been swimming for one hour on top of that.  So.....I definately get excercise which I know is so, so, so important.  Basically, I'm a healthy active person other than my back injury.

[swany]

I just LOVE you!!!  Gosh.......you are SO sweet to help me.  You don't even know me!!!  What an angel that has been sent my way.  THANK YOU!!!  OK.........I couldn't stand the pain.  I went as long as I could and took 2.5 at 12:10.  Before that I took 2.5 at about 9:00.  It's usually about 3 hours before my leg starts aching.  OK.....so, if I have it right I will take 2 or 3? at 4:00 PM?  Then 3 at 8:00?  (that's usually right before I go to bed at 9:00 - 9:30 since I get awaken at 3:00 with pain every morning).  Hey!!  That would only be 16 (or 17 if I'm taking my 3) for today!!  That would be great if I could do that!  Then I would only have 5 to go!!!  I trully think that if I could just get it down to the 12 that I'm allowed, I would NEVER let this happen again!!!  You all may be laughing at me......lol.......but I really think this just got out of hand.  I drink, but have never drank in excess (drunk? dranken?  lol  whatever......poor grammer I'm sure......lol)  So, it doesn't seem that I have an addictive personality.  Again, maybe just fooling myself.  But,  like you said, it can't hurt to try to get down to the correct dose, see if my pain is under control and go from there.  My only worry about not refilling my Oxy prescription is that doing this taper and then getting myself to 12, I don't have enough pills for this.  I was thinking that if I filled my Oxy just one last time and replaced the Oxy for the Norco once I run out, that would work for now.  Then I will NOT EVER fill my Oxy again!!  I was on that only for a period of time also (without the Norco) until I had the bright idea to take my Norco in the day time and the Oxy at night because the Oxy made me so sleepy and I couldn't stand it.  GREAT IDEA HUH?!!!  IDIOT LISA (that's my real name)!!!  lol  My doctor ok'd this....and look at me now.  I really think I would like to work this out with you all and maybe avoid telling my doctor.  I KNOW i can do it!!!  With your help of course.  I'm so lucky to have found this site!!!!  THANKS TZT!!!

[tzt2lady]

Its so cool how we cross each others paths.  Ive found such and awesome group of people here on this forum.    
Swany, None of us were really getting high anymore.   We were taking more and more pills to keep ourselves from feeling withdrawals.  Some of us have gone months, years without being able to catch that initially buzz we first got from opiates.  
Hun we just MUST get you back down to 12 norcos a day and then work from there.  I am exactly 3 weeks post op from my surgery so the pain is no where near what it was the first ten days or so.   But I would wake up 2 hours after my last opiate and be in pain.   I would force myself to wait 3 hours and then started stretching it out to 4 hours later on.
Now for today........................lets start right now at whatever the clock says.  When was your last dose and how many did you take?    If you took 3 pills 2 hours ago, wait for 2 hours and fifteen minutes before you take your next dose.  more hours before taking your next three.   Now, wait 4 hrs and 15 minutes between each dose.  This will put you at about 18 pills for today, this 24 hour period.
I remember Tims taper plan had something that REALLY helped me with my taper.
In the morning take you regular dose (for you that would be 2)
4 hours and 15 minutes later take 2.5
after that take your 2.5 pill doses every 4 hours and 15 min.
Before bed, take your original 3 again to try to get you through.

See its difficult with around the clock dosing.  Thats why I really wish you had something to help you sleep.   It would help us get you down to the 12 a day your doctor allows.

Also, if you can get down to the 12 a day and your pain is tolerable, maybe you could leave out the oxys.  

Then from 12 a day, if your body adjusts and you can handle it, you can go even lower.

I am really worried about your liver, my liver, our livers.   Gosh we put so much acetom. in our systems.  

I think that you are addicted sweetie.   Even if you dont feel it mentally, physically your body has responded in an addictive manner.
Personally, I couldn't believe I got addicted to vicodin.  Not after being on Heroin, which I always considered to be the only "real" high.   Vicodin was nothing compared to that but I got hooked on it.
Thank goodness the vicodin (norco) withdrawals are so minimal compared to heroin withdrawals too.

Did you call your pain mgt doc?   If so let me know what he says, okay?

[swany]

What an inspiration you are!!  I can't believe you lived through all of that.  You are amazing.  If YOU can do THAT, I can certainly do this!!  Well, I don't know yet that I CAN do this...........lol.  But, I'm gonna keep trying to tell myself that.  Do you feel the same way that marcatj does.  That is......if I'm taking this much now, it is probably not reasonable to think that I can go down to a normal amount.  My doctor allows me 12/day of the Norco.  They are 10/325 of acetaminophen.  That is the max of acetaminophen that you should take per day.  So, I'm at the max and then some!  God...........you all are such a comfort to me right now.  I haven't admitted this to ANYONE!!  Practically not even myself.  I still don't know that I want to say that I'm addicted.  I still really feel that I was just trying to get rid of my pain.  I don't get high from these meds anymore....haven't for some time.  But the pain relief I get helps me to function normally through my day.  Maybe I'm just fooling myself.  I just think it got out of hand.  I really forget about them until my pain comes.  It never lasts the full 4 hours and that and the fact that I have to take 3 to get any relief is why my numbers are so high.  I honestly don't get high from them.  I've been taking them for too long.  What do you think tzt?  AND.........God bless you for looking for that taper.  I can't tell you how much I appreciate that!  A tummy tuck huh?!  lol  That's great!  Ya......I've heard those are pretty painful.  lol  Hang in there.  I know as each day passes it will get easier.  I am so impressed by your story.  Thank you so much for sharing it with me.  I think I found you for a reason.

[tzt2lady]

Im perfectly comfy right now.   Im on the sofa with my feet elevated, a pillow across my tummy (Im reocovering from tummy tuck surgery and its the worse) and have had my ultram meds for the morning.

Im all here for you and am not feeling any withdrawals right now;

lets continue but Im going to look for Tims Taper plan.


In the meantime heres a big hug for you and Im wiping those tears away, ok?  Its gonna be ok.  Lets problem solve.

((((((((Swany)))))))))
tzt

[tzt2lady]

Im not seeing Tims plan but he will check the board at some point and put it up for you.   There are some amino acids and vitamins that people swear by.  They are listed in "The Thomas Recipe" which you can find by typing the name intot he search box at the top of this page.

Im gonna run make myself some breakfast but I'll be right back.
tzt

[swany]

Thank you for your honesty.  Maybe I should try to just get rid of them all together.  Do you think that I should call my Pain Management doctor and discuss this with him.  He really is a nice, understanding doctor.  I'm so afraid of not being able to handle this pain without them.  I just don't know what to do.  You are all so kind.  Thank you for all your words of wisdom and encouragement.  I really need to think about what to do.  Honestly, it has just recently gotten out of control.  I was in control for so long (it's been two years now).  I honestly don't think I had a problem until just now.  I just kept increasing and increasing, not being able to handle my pain anymore and mistakingly thinking that more would get rid of it.......NOT........stupid.  It's never gonna be totally gone.  I need to think.

[swany]

I'm really a mess right now.  I just can't express how much it means to me to talk to you.  I am so sorry to be so insensitive to the fact that you are trying to break free of this drug as we speak also.  How do you even have the energy to write to people.  I love you for that!!  My son is just in the other room and I don't want him to see me cry.  It's so hard.  I again will be waiting to hear from you.  You seem to have very logical ideas about how I might go through this.  I just can't imagine having to cope with this pain for the rest of my life without any help from Norco.  I just don't see how.  What do you think?