why would anyone go to rehab to be put on suboxone?

[wantoffmeds]

Why would anyone spend upwards of 10 thousand dollars or more to go to rehab just to be put on the suboxone? I've been researching rehabs to GET OFF of subs, and after typing in "Suboxone detox" was surprised to find that the term in rehab land means "getting off of a drug using suboxone," not "getting off of sub."

But to me, that is a total waste of money. Why would anyone spend thousands of dollars for a pretty much pain free detox that he/she could do at home on an outpatient basis simply by going to a doctor's office. I'm sorry, but getting ON suboxone is EASY. I cannot believe people would spend that  kind of money on rehab with sub. You don't need rehab to get on suboxone, and honestly, rehabs should not be giving this to people in withdrawal pain. They are only delaying what is to come, and looking back, 90 percent of us wish we had gotten the w/d s over with years ago.

So with these stupid rehabs using this drug, people like me would probably be laughed at if I called them up and asked to be detoxed OFF of it.  I thought the whole point of rehab was to make withdrawal a little bit easier for a patient, then if they were to detox at home.  Patients in rehab can't just call up a friend to give them some meds during withdrawal. But unfortunatly, now they are getting these drugs from their dr's in rehab.  

Hey, maybe if some of us sub users did go to rehab to detox, the patients there would think twice about getting on this awful drug after seeing the amount of pain we were in trying to get off of it.

[refusingbondage]

Hey there - I TOTALLY hear you. I know quite a few people who detoxed in rehab using a very SHORT term suboxone method.  Very tiny amount of sub, for 5 days, then nothing for 5 days, then out of detox at 10 days.  They were not given a script to go home with though.. But I am hearing it is a pretty common practice nowadays to send the addict home with a script for sub and an appointment with a sub doctor.. Ah sub the miracle!  (yeah right!).   Anyways, I *think* there is a member or two here who actually did go to rehab/detox to come OFF of sub.. Hopefully he or she will see this and can come around with some options for you.  I detoxed off suboxone at home.  It was an extremely hard thing to do, but it can be done.  Best of luck to you!  

[NorcoQueenoftheUniverse]

I totally agree with you on the FACT that WHY in the HECK do we put an ADDICT on JUST ANOTHER "thing" that we gotta DETOX FROM?? what is up with THAT?!?!?

I just have a "theory" that the RX companies are making a FORTUNE (and I mean a FORTUNE!) on all us addicts!  (and THAT pisses me off!)

  Plus the FACT that our "loved and trusted"  MD's are getting "kick-backs' from the RX companies... For CRYIN OUT LOUD (notice the CAPS) this has GOT TO STOP!  Love my MD.. hate their choices.  

Just MY thoughts.. You can HATE me or Love me for my views....It's just the way I feel....

[jessica2187]

I am with you..My doctor wanted me to stay on sub for a year or more..I decided to stop it myself b/c the med was making me "high" just like the other doc's..I flushed all I had left of the sub and didnt go back..That was a month ago and yes I have slipped up twice since then..Sometimes it seems like a never ending battle..When i dont have my doc i am disstraught and very unhappy..I wonder how long this merry go round will last??

[NorcoQueenoftheUniverse]

Honey... I'm not SURE how long this merry go round will last...

I just think that this country is SOOOOOO messed up with there attitude of: "Take another pill for ANOTHER PILL"

When is this MADNESS gonna stop?!?!?!?!

[NorcoQueenoftheUniverse]

Plus the FACT that.. HOW MUCH are the RX companies making off of us poor addicted souls?

[Ga Guy]

You are getting the terms Rehab and Detox mixed up. Detox is just that..rissing the body of drugs. Rehab combines detox with therapy to cope with the addiction issues either through 12 step programs, personal therapy, or group therapy (or a combination of all three). Many rehab centers use Suboxone as a tool for easing detox for the first couple of weeks. After that, they center on the mental aspects. Drug addiction is not a simply physical addiction (that's called dependence). It's a mental disease that has a physical component. My rehab money was well spent.

[NorcoQueenoftheUniverse]

hey everyone... My question here is:

Just how much does a 'SUB=DOC" get  $$$$  (per visit) to 'treat' an addict?

I never went this route before...but was just curious

I think I want to do a survey....

[whitie]

yup, the money grubbing sub doc system is a beauty !! yeah your right,why even bother going to rehab when you are still on an opioid. jump from the frying pan into the fire!!

It is a joke overall.............how about the company that has the monopoly on it, Think they are doing well???? no wonder they got everyone all gassed up on it, the longer you are on it the more bank they make. do they care about the horrible wd's it has?

whats amazing is people dont even think about what they are taking !!!!!!

well no wonder it works great, ITS A NARCOTIC REPLACEMENT OPIOID !!!!

ok, with that being said there are some cases where there are decent sub docs that set people up short term,and stick to it. but they seem to be rare.

[NorcoQueenoftheUniverse]

I am sorry for offending you... I know that Detox and Rehab are Different...

I apologize for my comment.

[refusingbondage]

Although I have no doubt at all about there being many terrible doctors out there looking for a paydate - MY suboxone doctor, treatment and prescription was all covered by insurance.  The suboxone doctor I used accpted most, if not all insurance plans.  I do not advocate suboxone.  Its not for everyone, or even most.  BUT it does have a purpose and it can help many and I am sure it has saved many lives.. It has also ruined many.  There is no good answer.

[NorcoQueenoftheUniverse]

I agree sweet pea.. a GOOD sub doctor is GOOD MD... and more power to him/her AND  you!  

I just worry about "replacing another drug for another drug"  

I just don't get it!  

[refusingbondage]

IMO it definitely is replacing an opiate with an opiate - no doubt about that. its not my opinion actually its a fact... However the advantages of being on it is once a day dosing.  No coping, obsessing, etc. Not getting the traditional ''high" and being able to start working on yourself.  In essence you no longer act like an addict, you break your addictive ways and you can start dealing with your issues.. BUT. . .nothing, and I mean NOTHING comes without its own price.

Now I wouldnt go so far as calling my MD "good" LOL.  He was a good person absolutely.. and I believe he truly cares about his addicts.  But not too educated on suboxone.   I was on it for years (with him) and he promised me, PROMISED me, I would have 'little to no withdrawal at all.'  That was a JOKE.  But he didnt do it maliciously, I know that is what he believed.

[whitie]

the fact remains that you are just being put on another opioid,  its that simple. thats why it works. it explains why people stay on it for long periods of time. they are addicts, that are still addicted. I am sure they are often to blame for,not following a short term taper, and wanting to be still on it. as long as they are on an opioid, their brains receptors are still messed up..


If ones insurance does not cover the sub program, then its expensive as hell.

another issue is what these programs to do to the cost of insurance for everyone else. given these situations, are self induced, why should the insurance cover it? why should everyone else pay higher premiums because some one wants to still take opioids and wont do the work to get off them for good?


sorry to those that support sub, but I do think these are issues that need to be addressed.

[Wolverine819]

I was really messed up on Oxys and Roxis,doing mega amounts each day.I went into  detox becuase there was no way I would be abble to cold turkey.I give a lot of credit to those that can.I was so sick and in so much pain,my wife had no idea what to do.Dr told her that I needed to go to a Detox and they would give me something to help me get through it.Got on Suboxone as soon as I got there and the next few days were a lot more bearable.I dont care if its an opiod or an aspirin it HELPED me.So maybe its not for everybody,its like anything else,works for some not for all.
What it does do is kill the cravings that I had for the oxys,so I could concentrate on getting my head clear to dral with my recovery.Thats a bad thing?Also in Detox there were counselors,group therapy,and doctors and nurses who saw to it that every aspect of  my addiction was seen to.I have heard a lot of people on here who say dont know the reasons they use,and if they did maybe they can stop,maybe some counseling will help them find that out.To those who have said Detox and rehab are a waste of time,tell that to many it has helped.
And for Suboxone haters,dont take it!! Somebody said they got high on it,what were you doing,shooting it?I never heard of getting high on it,I sure didnt.I will end my suboxone when I feel the time is right to do so,right now it is still helping me.So I apoligize to those whos insurance costs are going up because I am on it,Because My Dr does take my Horizon.Let me know how much more your insurance is costing you because of my Suboxone use and I will try to reimburse you.

[wantoffmeds]

I'm sorry but what do you mean, SOMEBODY said they got high on it. Most of us probably get high from it. it's an opioid, and that's what opioids do,  

I have gotten a high, sometimes stronger than others, every single time I have taken it. The DR. will even tell you that you will feel a high from it as it is an opioid.

Like today for example, I took less than 1 mg, and feel high as ****. I don't want to be high, trust me. But it made me feel high. I was only trying to take enough to ease the withdrawal I was feeling after 26 hours without it.

I am so sick of people saying that it doesn't make you high! And the one's who are getting high from it are not snorting it. And a lot of them are tapering like me.  I was higher today from it then I've been in a long time, which *****, but I've always felt something from it.

[whitie]

all replacement narcotic opioids are making you feel better. otherwise you know you would feel like dog **** with wd's.

my biggest hang up is the system is quick to put people on it that should not be on it. and its a greedy money making system being pushed by the drug manufacturer, that sure seems to keep people on it for long periods of time.

I have no problem with a MAJOR user(heroin, 20-25 pill addicts,IV users) using sub on a short term basis, but we have seen and heard the nightmares (same as I went through wd on methadone and norcos(mixed)} of people that were put on the sub for long periods of time, and went through WORSE wd's then the pills they are on.

go through long term replacement opioid wd's(sub and 'done)know what I am talking about. its 4 times worse and takes much longer.

there are good sub docs, and there certainly are a bunch of brainless ones out there, that obviously are a burden on the insurance system,just for their own profit.

[Wolverine819]

I am presently taking 12 mgs a day and have never gotten high.You are high as a kite on less then Img???Dude you sure you are on Suboxone?You have been on it for 4 YRS,maybe if you went to a detox,you wouldnt have.I have talked to many people on here about Suboxone and you are the first to mention getting high on it.Does your insurance cover your suboxone,if so Whitie is going to be pissed at you.

[refusingbondage]

It's weird, when I was ON suboxone I didnt not think of myself as feeling 'high' (but I started after a 20-30 percocet/day habit).. Its not the same kind of high, but it is something... For someone who has a huge tolerance to opes, no you will not feel 'high' but I can guarantee that if you give a 2mg suboxone to someone who does not use, they will be high as a kite and probably sick as a dog.  When I got off suboxone, only then did I realize how high I was on it..   I felt more 'high' when I got to the lower dosages of the suboxone.  I remember there being a reason for this, but I cannot remember what it is.  When I was down to 4mg or 2mgs I started nodding etc.  

And yes whitie - I completely agree that this drug and methadone are not for everyone.  Not for most actually.  Taking someone with a small vicodin habit and putting them on suboxone or methadone, to me is ludacris and almost criminal.  

And yes through all the times Ive gone into various periods of withdrawal nothing can compare to long term sub withdrawal.  

Re insurance though -- hey man, I pay a LOT for my insurance.  A little less than 500/month for me and my son...I dont feel bad about using it for my treatment :)

Wolverine - you are doing a fantastic thing for yourself.  Whatever you have to do to get it under control is exactly what you should do.  No one here is an expert but in my mind you qualify as someone who can benefit from suboxone.  Its a very personal choice.  We are all very different and ANYTHING we can do to save our own lives to keep fighting our addictions is comendable and honorable.  YOU GO!

All I can say to anyone considering replacement opiod treatment is educate yourself.  Be smart and buyer beware.  Nothing comes without a price when it comes to any opiate.  There is no get out of jail free card.  There is no miracle cure. There are tools along the way to help you on your journey to sobriety, but ultimately it comes down to you.  

[whitie]

common dude...........I am not going to be pissed at him. I appreciate the fact that hes being honest and objective about it. hes obviously studied opioids, and is not fooling himself about how it effects the brain.

I was merely playing devils advocate. I know I am comming off as some kind of neocon, but I am far from that. but a person that was not addicted,like us, would look at the sub doc system,as an unneccessary burden to the system. when they should just clean up their act themsleves. trust me those same people would  NOT like me either and what I have done in the past. I am laid back, bring the cost up to a conservative and see what they say !! and we cant deny that do have a point..

like I said some people are powerless and or severely addicted, and need it but. as for the current system and the drug manufacturer's monopoly, I stand by what I said.


I hope it works for you,btw. just dont stay on it long, or you will go through what I did, and become very anti sub

[refusingbondage]

whitie - you are no such thing.  I can totally respect your viewpoint.  I dont advocate subs either.. when I was on them - I did.  Now being off them (and w/drawing off them) I have become more antisub then pro sub.  

There is some intresting info out there about the makers of suboxone.. lots of good reading.  Most sub doctors will not accept insurance for sub and it has become quite a moneymaker.. Ive heard of people spending 150/week for each visit for doctors who will only accept cash, and will only give the sub on a weekly basis! Criminal I tell you.

And btw I am a pretty laid back girl and ALSO a card carrying republican :)  

[Wolverine819]

I can respect your view ,you are entitled to whatever you want to believe in.I was given a supply of Suboxone to go home with from Detox,and  told to find a Dr when I ran out.I called at least 20 Drs and they all wanted 300-500$ cash for the first visit and anywheres from 200-350$ for refills.I agree with refusingbondage that its a scam.Its the same as paying a dealer.I cant afford that and still feed my kids,im on disabilty at the moment,hoping to go back to work in November after Surgery.I got a name of a Dr whio takes insurance and I went there.it takes me an hour and a half to get there,but its worth it.So why should my insurance not pay for a drug I am prescribed.I agree with you that prescription costa are out of control for no other reason then for the drug companies making money.My prescriptions were running 1500 a month.How do you pay for that if you dont have insurance.we pay a fortune to have the coverage,so why not be able to use it for a drug that helps you.

[whitie]

thanks a bunch. your a sweetie. and I have throughly enjoyed all your comments and your whole hearted concern for us all !!



you hit the nail on the head...........got the shot right in the black  :]

[whitie]

yeah, you proved the point about the cost and big pharm monopoly that I am complaining about. those numbers are what I 've heard before. enough to make one want to start a revolution !! if I remember right its because of one drug manufacturers monopoly

Manufacturer: Reckitt Benckiser Pharmaceuticals, Inc.DEA/FDA: Schedule IIIApproximate Retail Pricefrom  www.drugstore.com
tablet, sublingual: 2-0.5 mg (30 ea): $109.188-2 mg (30 ea): $201.07

its almost like they know the street value of opioids, boils down to 3.25 a  pop  !! like buying vikes !!!



I do wish you all the best. there are a few commenters on here that did very well with short term sub tapers,with minimal side effects. thats what I would think is in order.


BTW, are you a mighty wolverine fan?  U OF M  ??  michigander? sorry to hear about the injury, I gotta a good tale in my journal of why I got hooked on pills from injury.  and ofcourse, I liked the buzz  :]

[Wolverine819]

yes I am a Wolverine-GO BLUE

[LateAugust]

It always concerns me to see posts that are so judgemental of rehab treatments  or IOP that differs from "this is what worked for me"  when so many times  there may or may not be a relapse posted days or weeks thereafter......  if anyone truly had the magic answer  of how to stop addiction  they would have more money than God....    

My only hope and prayer is for anyone to research and find what is the best treatment to address their addiction....   I  quit judging others when my daughter became an oxy/ heroin addict,  because as embarrassed as I am to say this..  I really thought  any kid addicted to those types of drugs were either in the projects or  the result  of absent parents...    

I guess I was given my punishment for being so judgemental...... and so very wrong.  I just wish to God only I was paying the price for being so ignorant,  and this lesson did not have to reach me thru my daughter.

[mtgoat911]

the treatment center i used to work at (i am now at a place that does not use sub) would offer every opiate addicted patient suboxone on their 3rd day of detox
not many patients were strong enough to turn that down, it reminds me of a time in my life when i was in my early 20s i went to a detox facility and every morning the nurse would wheel a cart down the hall and knock on everyones door offering methadone
suboxone doctors agree that suboxone and methadone have very similar if not the same withdrawl yet they are so eager to convince the world how different it is from methadone, well if its so different why did i feel the same way on both these drugs and why did i go through the same hell getting off them????????


to wantoff meds

most of these treament center will detox you off the suboxone, just remember while you are there to be strong and if matience is suggested remember your personal goal of become free and happy, you can do this!!!! i have never met an addict who i thought was so terminally diseased that they needed a lifetime of soboxone or methadone,
when the medical community gives up on us ever becoming clean we can turn to each other for guidence and support, unity
xo

[LateAugust]

I hope to God when "in unity" you  find the cure for  addiction, you will share it with others....  I truly would sell my soul  to know what would  keep my daughter healthy and off drugs for the rest of her life.  Perhaps one does not  know the heartache of watching your child slowly die by this horrid disease,  until you actually experience the pain.    I am not  so naive to believe totally in the  medical experts,    perhaps again my personal experience of having been married to a surgeon...  Doctors  are not Gods,   yet on the other hand I know I do not have the education to try to explain all of the chemistry of addiction and how it effects the human brain.   Perhaps I am  have made the wrong choices to depend on experts, rather than those with personal experience  of which all are miles apart.   I guess I will never understand why asking to be tolerant and non judgemental of treatment for addiction  that differs from what  one has chosen should be a debate,,,,,,,,,   I just don't get that mindset,   and hope  with the life lessons I have been forced to deal with,   that I will never force my opinion or judgement of treatment on anyone else.......  it is so individual,  how could I or anyone else know what is best for someone else?   The whole debate and rebuttals  just make me very sad........and pray to God not another child will not  die  from not having all the options and choices  without judgement provided to them........  

[wantoffmeds]

I think it's funny that you referred to me as he...I'm a she. But regardless, I am getting it through my insurrance, which is about to run out. But at the rate I'm taking it, and two covered scripts left, I figured out I will have enough subs to last me another 4 years!

Let's hope it doesn't come to that. And I don't know where all of you live, but my doctor only charges 100 dollars per visit, and I only have to go every 4 months.

I know I shouldn't be giving personal information out, but if any of you live in the Philadelphia area, email me, and I'll give you the name of my Dr. I don't know if he is this lenient for all of his patients though, or if he just trusts me because I am in school and doing well and all that good stuff, but 25 dollars per month, plus 45 dollars every few months for a script isn't too bad.

[mtgoat911]

lateaugust there is no known cure for addiction how ever it can be arrested and recovery is then possible
i do believe i do the best to share with people at medhelp how i got and stayed clean for the last 5yrs
i mentioned unity because it is a spiritual principle i try to follow, i make every attempt to provide information to any addict seeking help, on average i usually come in contact with as in face to face with 5 to 20 new addicts a week looking for a non-medicinal treatment for their addiction
i do not treat people on matience like the are not worthy of my time, its just once a treatment option is in place like suboxone or methadone its difficult for that patient to grasp the concept of complete abstinece
when the patient makes a statement "i would like to get off the matience" like wantofff posted, i generally share my experience with matience and matinence detox, i still care for addicts on matience but as far as what i can do to help, i have limited knowledge
i would also like to share with anyone who believes they have the power to keep a loved one off drugs, you just do not have it! i have recently started going to alonon on friday nights to learn how to deal with my loved one who is addicted to booze, in my first meeting i learned this,,,,,,,,,, i did not cause their addiction, i cannot control their addiction and i certainly cannot cure their addiction
it takes the burden away from me, i cannot carry someone through life all i can do is help when i can and place boundaries when i feel someone is being nasty or taking advantage of me

[mom_of_two136]

“Replacement therapy or substitution therapy” is actually a technical term that refers to brain nuero receptor action, but it gets twisted into meaning “substituting one addiction for another” and that’s not what buprenorphine treatment is all about. Here’s why I don’t like the term Replacement or Substitution therapy:

Replacement therapy or Substitution therapy

Problem with the term: This implies equality to street drugs like heroin and treatment medications like buprenorphine. The term suggests a lateral move from illegal addiction to legal addiction and this does not accurately characterize the true nature of the treatment.

The essence of addiction is uncontrollable compulsive behavior, that results in physical harm, ruined relationships, and many more problems we associate with this disease. The first goal of addiction treatment is to stop this dangerous addictive behavior. With successful buprenorphine therapy, as part of a comprehensive treatment plan, the dangerous addictive behavior is stopped not replaced with an equally dangerous uncontrollable compulsion to take the treatment medication. Instead, patients tend to return to a more normal state of being. That is not replacement it is treatment.

Preferred terminology: Treatment, medication assisted treatment, medication


Just seems like alot of mis-information being talked about. No, suboxone is not a "magic pill" and I think alot of people were misinformed at the beginning by ignorant doctors and now these people are very anti-sub. I am really sorry about that. It did what it was intended to do for me and I know it has worked for others. So I just think people should be very careful about what they say b/c it could save someones life. I see alot of people relaspsing over and over again and but they are quick to shoot down a method because it may require them to take a medicine with therapy for awhile with a slow taper. Just seems like they are on a roller coaster of addiction and need another method than the one that is not working for them. I really hope everyone finds what works for them and are able to share it without judgement. It come down to what works for one person may not work for another. All we can do is share and not judge. Anyway, I hope all find their road to recovery.

[ddamm30]

suboxone is a miracle drug if it wasnt for subs i would have a needle in my arm right now so when u have this addiction then talk ****