5 day Norco detox with Suboxone?

Hello - this is my first post to this board so I hope I am following proper protocol.  

I have a 7 year addiction to Norco 10/325 (approx. 8 a day).  I have a ton of Suboxone left over from the last time I tried to get off Norco, but ended up taking the Suboxone for 6 months and then couldn't get off that and switched back to Norco.

I am ready to try to detox again, but I was hoping to just do a short term (like 5 day) detox off the Norco and quit the Sub on Day 6.  Does anyone know the dosages for each day and how I would taper down.  I do know to try to wait at least 12 hours from my last dose of Norco to my first dose of Sub.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[refusingbondage]

Hello th69 and welcome.. while I have lots of experience using suboxone, I didnt use it short term so I cant really answer.. be careful with the sub.. your past experience has shown you its a difficult drug to quit.. Im not personally an advocate for sub in most cases.  

Obviously the best decision is always to start suboxone under a doctor's care.  If you intent on using the sub, I would say use the least amount needed.. With an 8pill/day habit, chances are you will need little sub to help you through.. start out with .05mg or 1mg (half or quarter of a 2mg tab if that's what you have or quarter of an 8mg tab).. take it.. see if it helps.. from what I understand having talked to people who used it very short term, it was a tiny amount each day the first few days, then every other day.. Just enough to make it bearable..

Also there is an "Ask A Doctor - Addiction" expert forum on MH.. Dr. Junig, who does advocate suboxone and its use, could definitely answer more thoroghly..  

Lastly, I will say to think about a recovery plan.. 7 years is a long time.. you will need some kind of after care/support.  You can definitely get lots of support here..  Its well worth it though as life free from active addiction is incredible.  Best of luck.  

[slapperman]

I don't think you are really detoxing with suboxone. I believe it is more like masking the withdrawals with a substance that you are not getting high from but are swapping addictions to a drug that with a longer half life. I am no Doctor but the process for getting off suboxone is a slow taper due to the long half life and this is done over an extended period with a small reduction each time. I think 5 days of suboxone to counter your opiate WD will still leave yo in WD. Check with the Dr. and go for a slow taper or try CT and that will be about 4-6 days. Then you may want to look in aftercare because that's when the hard part starts "staying clean". I did the sub thing and wish I did the CT thing. Either way i with you the best with your recovery and God Bless.

slapper aka joe

[th69]

Thank you for the responses.  I might try CT, but I know how miserable that will be.  I know there is no easy fix - the suboxone made it so easy last time (I had hardly any withdrawal symptoms), but getting off the sub was next to impossible so I went back to Norco.

I thought I had seen somewhere on the internet that there was a 5 day sub plan where on day 1 you took it every 2-4 hours, then day 2 you took the sub ever 4-6 and then so on.  Of course I can't find where I read that, and it might not work anyway.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I am going to have to do aftercare this time or I will never stay clean (assuming I can get clean this time!)  I am so tired all the time as it is and fear the lack of energy that I am sure will last for some time after the detox.

This board seems to be a great resource, and I plan on following the board closely.  At least I am not alone.

[worried878]

a dr's care is always best...

as far as a sub dose...it would depend on how many hydros u were using per day..most hydro users can get by with 4 mgs or less daily as hydro is a weaker narcotic in the spectrum of narcotics in general..not alot weaker..but considereable weaker than several on the market today

i do see ur strategy as if u r like me u may have to work...and for hydro wd ..a week is usually enuf to get thru the physical part...and if u used sub for 5 days it would stay on board for a few days after the day 5 mark...

but the mental stuff is what will getcha..and as mentioned an aftercare plan is the only way to go or u will repeat this cycle over and over...u seem to have a strategy for the mental part this time...so stick with it..keep posting as it helps  

[tommm70]

The information you are conveying is not correct. If you use Sub for 5 or 6 days you will not develop any physical dependency. I know the in patient center where I went to out patient rehab uses Sub for 5 days following full opiate use to avoid any w/d's for the patient. Basically opiates and Sub are two different drugs and your body does not develop a dependence. So it is possible to take Sub for a very short time and have no physical w/d's.

But that is easier said then done.....

th69-
I think self medicating with sub is a bad idea. I know the idea is to get off of drugs, and that is a good thing. But getting off of drugs is the easy part. Living a sober life is the hardest part. Just getting through w/d's is not enough. This was my mistake the first time I relapsed. Once I accepted addiction is here for life, it made things much easier. I wish you the best whatever you decide! Congrats to you on taking steps to be clean!

[road2recovery]

I have no experience with sub...But when i first came here, 2 people went on a very short sub detox and did really good...They are both still clean , with aftercare , I don't remember how many days , but it was short...If you want me to have them PM you , let me know...good luck..  IMO it doesn't matter how you get off, just as long as you DO, and then go to some sort of aftercare...
god bless
r2r

[refusingbondage]

I dont think 5-7 days will develop into a dependence either.  

Not to start the sub debate again, but suboxone is very much indeed an opiate (this is why it alleviates withdrawal.. it does not 'mask' withdrawal -- it takes you out of withdrawal by feeding your brain the opiate its craving) and its extremely addicting.  

Anyways, that being said I do believe there are a lot of people on here who successfully used it to help during detox and detox centers do use it to help the detox process along.. Good luck.

[tommm70]

Buprenorphine is a semi-synthetic opiate with partial agonist and antagonist actions. So it is not a full blown opiate. It does not even come up in an opiate drug test. You have to test specifically  for Buprenorphine.
No doubt your body thinks it is an opiate. it binds to the receptors, and does not want to let go (hence the long withdrawals for long time use).

[slapperman]

my bad, i was on sub and no one ever told me of the 8 day program

http://www.suboxone.com/hcp/opioiddependence/withdrawal.aspx

Outpatient Dosing Regimen for Opioid Medical Withdrawal

a) Flexible Dosing Schedule for Buprenorphine:
Day Recommended upper and
lower limits Recommended buprenorphine dose
day
1  4 to 8 mg 6 mg
2  4 to 12 mg 8 mg
3  4 to 16 mg 10 mg
4  2 to 12 mg 8 mg
5  0 to 8 mg 4 mg
6  0 to 4 mg –
7  0 to 2 mg –
8  0 mg –

that was the first i heard of it but sorry and goodluck either way