A question for those who used SUB or tapered off something

[uphill7584]

After about a year on vics, and 6 months on oc, I quit and started SUB treatment, lasting 8 months. (some of you have probably read my progress posts in the past) Anyway, I am on day 16 with no sub (jumped off at 2mg). Pretty much every major symptom of WD has passed. I am obviously still really fatigued and a bit anxious at time...but that is to be expected for a while. Overall...I am incredibly happy to best where I am. Now to the issue at hand...

I am wondering is anyone in a similar experience has had stomach issues that last this long? Everything is still going straight through me. And more recently and almost constant nausea has come on which gets very intense when i smell food.

I know doing what I did for 2+ years totally threw my body outta whack, and after 16 days I should not expect to be perfectly healthy. But I am curious if anyone else has experienced similar symptoms.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[mr.lucky66]

Glad to hear it uphill. Don't let these sub docs talk you into long courses of tx when you don't need it.

[uphill7584]

Not sure if you are posting to me or to Tyson. I went CT from 2mg of sub 16 days ago and am doing well. Tyson is at 6mg right now and was looking advice on speeding up his taper.

[worried878]

a taper would work and u shouldnt feel to much wd...u r at 2 mgs and that is not alot...i would want to go on and get off if i were u...u can do it in even less than 21 days if u r comfortable at 2 mg now...write it out and stick to it...u can even go down to 1.5 mg then 1 mg then 1 mg every other day or just a crumb or shaving here and there when u feel like u really need it....unless u plan on subbing for life, the time will come when u have to face addiction on ur own...ur wds from ur DOC are long gone after 51 days...make a plan and stick to it...keep posting

[uphill7584]

Thanks hook.

[uphill7584]

I didn't really want to get into that in my post to Tyson....but I definitely began to feel like my treatment was more profit-oriented toward the end of my treatment. At my last visit they handed me a bill for just over $600. This was after I had already paid my $500 deductable, at which point my insurance would be covering 80%. I asked for a print out of my bill...all the payments made my my insurance company we listed, but were not being subtracted from the total that I owed. I went to the owner of the center and he looked at it and mumbled some nonsense....and all the sudden I only owed them $230. I made damn sure that I got a reciept stating that I was paid in full through that date and made him sign it. And now the reciept lives in the drawer next to my bed...and will for a long time.

Clearly the billing practices at my center were a bit shady, disorganized at least. I feel bad for those who don't keep track of their stuff or don't stand up for themselves. Maybe it was a clerical error at my center, but there are definitly places that do take advantage of their patients for profit.

However, I will defend my doctor. I came to him from inpatient stabilization on 16mg...so obviously he was going to start there. With him I could tell that he was conservative about tapering because he really didn't want me to relapse. He told that he wouldn't let me stay on it for more than a year. And he was supportive when I wanted to be more aggressive with my tapering. He made suggestions, but ultimately, I really had a great deal of control over my treatment.

My best advice for quitting is find a doctor that you trust, be honest with them, and listen to your body.

[ochooked]

What a great post  - you are an excellent writer and if the truth be told your story is greatly appreciated by all who read it - -- I'll bet most of us can relate exactly to what you said but you have a very good way of saying it.  I totally agree with you that getting off Sub as soon as one can is the right way to go.   I also appreciate that some were on much higher doses of narcotics than I was so perhaps they really did need to stay on Sub a while longer -  For me, I think the 21 day limit makes really good sense if one can do it.  Sub is very powerful and helped me get through the W/D's much more easily.  I had never heard the term  "Suboxone Spanking" but I love that one - - it is so true - Sub is very hard to get off of.   I now know why people write that they got down to a 'crumb' and found great relief in only a very small piece -- a powerful drug.  Just wanted to say congratulations for a well written post - -- much appreciated.  Best to you.

[mr.lucky66]

Congrats on getting off sub early. I've heard roo many bad stories from people staying on too long and going through hell while the docs collect more fees. Originally it was used inpatient for short periods and worked well and is untested for long use.

[uphill7584]

Ultimately, if you trust your doctor, you should probably follow his instructions.

However, I will also give you my opinion.

I started at 16mg (which in my opinion was way too high a dose for me, but at the time I was very committed to following the docs orders...so I went along with it)

As I said my whole experience took about 8 months...I went in on 1/2/08.

In hindsight, I wish I would have done a much faster taper or quit using the SUB as needed for acute WD symptoms.

My originaly pace was to drop 1-2mg per month. By the time I reached 8mg I felt like I was just addicted to SUB...no different than my other DOC. (sounds like you are starting to feel the same)

So during the month when I was supposed to be on 7mg....I tapered myself down to 2mg. I believe getting through this is 90% mental. I thought back to when I used...sure I wanted to take 80mg of oc...but could I get through the day comfortably with 20mg...yes. (FYI...1mg of SUB is approx equal to 10mg of oc...according to my doc atleast)

So when I told him I was at 2mg, he was a bit nervous....then I told him that I was going to do 1-2mg for a week...then take a week vacation from work and go CT. He gave me Clonodine and Clonazapem. I had some mild WD for about 3 days...by the 5th I was back in the gym, lifting, running, and swimming. The only issue that has stayed with me is my upset stomach and lack of appetite...but I feel like it was worth it.

The reason I did this is because I felt ready. When I started using I was really niave and never imagined that withdrawal could feel the way it does. It started with an injury and became recreational...which lead to the problem. Had I known...I never would have done it.

Ultimately, I know there is no way in hell I am ever putting my body and mind through the pain of withdrawal again. I made the jump because I knew I was not going to faulter no matter how much pain I was in.(which really wasn't much)

For me, the bottom line was that I had wasted to much time and money dealing with this issue. I realized that I could "get by" on a much lower dose...so I made the choice to do it....w/o consulting my doctor. Up until that point I had followed my treatment to a T, passed every UA, went to every therapy session, etc...so he trusted my feeling and helped me jump off at 2. We both knew I was going to be in some pain, we called it the "Suboxone Spanking"...sort of a last little punishment and lesson for being such an idiot. And honestly, I appreciated having to go through it... it burned that memory into my mind...which is why Ill never go back.

In conclusion...IM NOT A DOCTOR....Everyone is different, this is just my story...I don't know your situation, but you sound like you are feeling the way I did, and just want to be done with it. I don't want to tell you what to do, and talking with your doctor is probably the best place.

Hopefully my story helps a bit... at least gives ya some insight.

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

That would be tigan for your stomach. And it does work pretty well ... its really great for nausea. If you are not currently eating well the advice would be to establish a grazing approach. Keep a jar of peanut butter around, or a hunk of cheese, or melon balls, yogurt smoothies, whatever. But keep things available and take a few bites every half hour or twenty minutes.... and keep posting ..........

[uphill7584]

Thanks for the support. I actually just got finished talking with my doctor. Since I have been using OTC products for over 2 weeks he is going to prescribe me Bentaly for the stomach, and something that starts with a Ty or Tyg for nausea. Really really hoping they work. I had lost 20 lbs during the first 10 days, I have gained about 5 back since then by forcing myself to eat...but as we all know, as soon as you put it in it seems to find a way out.(Can't wait for that to be over) Anyways thats again, especially for the diet suggestions. Take care.

[againnot]

wow....I just got some protonix today from the dr.  I've had bad nausea, and stomach burning.  He said I could have an ulcer, but you eluded to the fact it could be from the opiates?  Very interesting.  My stomach problems started when I quit taking the vicodin.  No bathroom trips, just the stomach junk.  Very interesting!

[uphill7584]

Not sure why you asked that....but no I have no more subs. I got a script for Clonidine at my last visit.

[TysonRed]

Sorry I have more of a question for you rather than an answer. Anyways right now Im almost at month 2 with Sub, I started at 8mg and now at 6mg, just wanted to hear your opinion on whether or not I should speed up my taper. Obviously Id like to keep the w/d as mild as possible. Before sub I was originally taking oxy's, then over to methadone for  couple of years(which I abused), then eventually on to the sub after tapering my methadone down over a 5month period. I have one friend here who used Sub and had from what he says was nearly w/d free detox when he stopped taking it, he was on for 31/2 months...8..6..4..then 2mgs for 19 days. Im on the same schedule but when I wake up in the morning I feel extremely fatigued before I take my dose. So if you get some time or anyone else with experience, if you have any advice or alternative tapering methods please let me know...Im really wondering if I could somehow do like a 21 day taper, when already being on it for nearly 50days. Im just in a big hurry to actually feel clean...or normal. I have no problems with the sub its just I am tired of having to take pills and was just wanting any additional info I could gather from those who have the experience. I wish you the best of luck in your recovery, and sorry to use your post for my own question but you sounded like you may be able to offer some really good advice. Thank you, Tyson

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

It hit me very hard. I have other medical issues also so that complicates things. There are some meds available that help. Most gastro Docs want to scope you before they treat - its not a terrible procedure. Ensure type nutritional drinks (even Walgreens store brand) are a good stop-gap measure. Make cetain that you stay hydrated. Try gatorade or pedialyte if you need to. Ask about megace if your appetite is totally awol. Maybe protonix if its an upset stomach from the opiate abuse. There are things to do - keep posting if you need to - good luck!

[Kova]

yes yes yes!  my biggest problem always with wds is the digestion issue.  lasts very long for me as well.  have you tried immodium to keep you from the constant bathroom trips?  also, i cannot tolerate even a little bit of coffee.  

[lifesaride]

i wonder, do you still have subs?