ABOUT SUBOXONE ...

I HAVE RECENTLY IN FEBRUARY DETOXED FROM A METHADONE PROGRAM AFTER BEING ON IT ABOUT 9 YRS. I WENT TO AN ADDICTION DOCTOR. HE DEFINATELY DID THE RIGHT THING GETTING ME OFF THE METH. FIRST HE GAVE ME OXY-COTIN AND SOME KIND OF MORPHINE PATCH FOR ABOUT 3 WEEKS. THEN GAVE ME BUPRENORPHINE SHOTS THAT I HAD TO GIVE MYSELF FOR A COUPLE DAYS. NOW I AM ON SUBOXONE. STARTED WITH A 8MG TABLET A DAY. NOW I AM TAKING A HALF OF A 2MG TABLET( WHICH IS 1 MG.) I CAME THIS FAR FROM BEING ON METHADONE I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF I COULD DETOX OFF THIS 1 MG.
      THANKS, GINA

[mrmichael67]

That is wonderful that you are doing it the way you are.  Can you break them up into quarters?  Go one step down and then go off from there.  It is a godsend for buprenorphine to be approved for this very use.

[Rdytoquit]

Just a quick observation about Expillman and the controversy sparked by his posts and opinions.  Personally I enjoyed Mr. Expillman

[SarpyJesse]

It's great that you've been able to switch from Dolphamine to Buprenorphine. And, Yes- literature, and people who've had to do so indicate that stepping down and then "Off" buprenorphine is much easier than doing so from most other opiates.... Which is why, I assume, that the FDA approved Suboxone for treating addiction.

Good luck!

Jess

[cosmicstargoat]

Yes, some of us can take what we want and leave the rest.  I mean, who REALLY gives a goat-damn about the half-life of Methadone vs. Oral Morphine or Levo-Dromorman?

[hippy]

most of us drug addicts don't need such information,
but there are people here at this fourm with severe
chronic pain issues who do need this type of information.
i have read more then a few poster that have broken backs
some who are wheel chair bound,
we should be grateful that it is not us in that situation,
and at the same time have compassion and respect  for
those in need of such important information.

peace hippy

[Thomas03]

"Conclusion: All drug addicts should be imprisioned/executed ..."

So, where do I report for execution? Or is that what all the BBQing is for?

You know an awful lot about narcotics not to be involved with them in some way. What's your story?

Some guy once said "Judge not lest ye be judged." Always made inherent sense to me.

Thomas

[cosmicstargoat]

Thomas said:  "Some guy once said "Judge not lest ye be judged."
Always made inherent sense to me. "

I'll be the judge of that.

As far as drugs go, I'm as clean of drugs as my mind is as clear of religious claptrap.  I make it a point to keep myself informed on a wide variety of issues.

Peace, my son.

[mrmichael67]

Some may need the info about the half lives, but that wasn't the point.  If someone is going to come in here like gangbusters and "talk" down to the board and connect themselves to the American Pain Society, they should make sure their info is correct.  Someone in that type of position wouldn't have done that.  In any other situation, I would not have pointed that out either.

[pepsi4]

Sorry to interrupt -- the other thread is closed.  

Expillman, I'm very happy for you -- good luck.  However, if you could not taper yourself off of the drugs, you are psychologically dependant.  It seems like you have some other issues that you need to work out -- no big deal, everyone does.

Thomas,
You are a riot, and have been very helpful to many -- don't change.  I agree that if you "don

[Thomas03]

If you have no involvement with drugs, what are you doing here?

Thomas

[mrmichael67]

I agree with that.  A non addict wouldn't have such a time tapering.

[cosmicstargoat]

That's quite a logical leap, Herr Michael.  Maybe Pillman could not go though the tapering because he was a caregiver for a wife who died and there was just too much on his plate at the time?

There can be many reasons that an individual does not follow a tapering schedule, but that does that make him an addict.

Tsk, tsk, Michael, what a slipperly slope you have created.  In your quest to trash one who has threatened you little world here, you are reduced to INVENTING ridiculous conclusions that a certain person, a person that you have absolutely no knowledge of other than what has been written in this Forum, is a drug addict.

Medical authority, my ass.

[Thomas03]

"However, if you could not taper yourself off of the drugs, you are psychologically dependant."

That's an astute observation. I think we all missed that one. I understand that distinguishing dependency from addiction is important to different people for different reasons. For medical practitioners and their chronic pain patients, that distinction allows them access to a means of relieving suffering, a noble end to be sure.

Perhaps if society moved away from its vindictive and hypocritical stance on addiction, it might ease the plight of both the dependent and the addicted.

Thomas

[mrmichael67]

I should re-word that.  A non-addict would most likely not have a hard time tapering.  Multiple times?  Well then, that becomes more compelling.  It really doesn't matter.  But, when one makes such an argument and effort to separate or elevate himself from the others, then I would have to wonder what the deal is.  My last statement wasn't accurate and I had to change that.  Sorry, we are all human.

[cosmicstargoat]

Your selective memory is interesting.   Have you sought help for this?  


I remember Pillman stating a philosophy supporting cold turkey, don't you?  Would a strong person's personal views have anything at all to do with how he or she deals with an issue?

[bmac]

Hey you wanna pick on somebody here, lets play big boy, I got 24/7!   Damn know it alls! Crawl back under that rock you call a life. Oh I love this ****, Im waiting!!!!!!!!

[Sturgil]

You know I really enjoy reading about E., S. & H. in regards to recovery. If goat boy was in an AA or NA meeting he would get his butt kick all over the parking lot. So, out of respect to the forum, old timers and "serious" newcomers I suggest we just ignore goat boy's post. I am sick of reading post from a person that is not serious about recovery. Recovery is a life and death issue, if I use I die. So it is not up to someone who is not an addict only a spam artist to any suggestion on a life issue he or she has no experience with.

Sturgil Flockin

[Chezz2]

My email is
(***@****) if you would like to let me know why we can't continue on with what this forum is intented to do, and what it is all about.
Regards,
Chezz

[cosmicstargoat]

Hey, your call.  I'm just "standing up for myself" in some sort of "rite of passage" gauntlet that newcomers are somehow supposed to go through.

[Chezz2]

And for your information. MrM and I do not speak via email or by any other means.
That does not mean I do not respect his knowledge regarding meds nd their uses.
He has helped numerous people here and for that I respect anyone who does that.
Even you if you could do it in a more astute way.
Regards,
Chezz

[SarpyJesse]

You passed. Okay everyone, settle down-- It's back to "Happy MedHelp" now.

[bmac]

Well cat got your tounge smartass. I saw that rite of passage ****! Grow the F*** up! Please! Hey and one more thing, I can post under two names too. I am so smart ain't I?

[cosmicstargoat]

Sorry, Big Mac, but your short bus showed up a little too late for the fray.  If you need abuse, try withdrawal.

[bmac]

Actually I just finished my 100 withdrawl (withdrawal) period two weeks ago but thanks for your concern, now is that all your little mind can come up with. I get better remarks from the Ladies over at yahoo chat rooms! Try harder or leave, thanks! Bmac not Big Mac

[Dr. Chezz]

Being a Dr. and all, I would have to say your attitude arrises from having to ride the little bus all of your life.
Now that you can use anonymity to help in your quest to belittle everyone you can, you are fullfilling that lifelong wish to be someone you aren't.

Can we get back to what this forum is all about, or do you feel the need to get your little bus ego filled...

Chezz(Dr)

[bmac]

OK I'll translate for Dr.Chezz, hey idiot what cha doing?, get tired of the bridge? Cops run you off or what! Need a place to hang out huh? Well F*** off scumbag!
Was I close Doc? lol  BMAC

[cosmicstargoat]

"Can we get back to what this forum is all about, or do you feel the need to get your little bus ego filled"


You ask me to stop.  I say, "your call", and then you lob another salvo?  You folks have quite a problem with hypocrisy, don't you?

"use anonymity"  you say.  Please explain this to me?  How am I using this principle OVER AND BEYOND what any OTHER user that uses a moniker in this Forum?

I anxiously await your answer.

[cosmicstargoat]

See?  (ROLF!)  Let me take shots at you, but don't dare hit back.

[cosmicstargoat]

Hey, Big Mac!  You state that you turn everyone around you into Idiots.  I believe you, but does that go for your children too?

[SarpyJesse]

Yes, you're correct.

However, now we can move on-- and the ExPillman can come back and help those who have questions. It's getting a little to AdHominem for most people's tastes. Not to say that you didn't do a great job defending yourself-- You should post your website, and I think that people will get a chuckle.

Jess

[Dr. Chezz]

Thats Dr. Cheese to you!

What happened to your spellchecker. Or could it be the one and only that has called me cheese before.

Dr. Chezz, get it right.

Chezz

[cosmicstargoat]

"the one and only that has called me cheese before."

What is a one and only "that"?

The solution to your question lies in one of the auto features in Windows, I typed in "c" and cheese came up because I had used it last time.  Feeling lazy and feeling confident that you would recognize it, I hit [ENTER] and moved into the message.

Clear enough, Doctor?  Doctor of what, might I inquire?

[rodewc]

Sir:

The internet, according to FYAH (the site for all grammar Nazis), requires usage of the demonstrative pronoun +that+ as opposed to the subject pronoun +who+. That aside, isn't this a support forum concerning drugs and related issues?

rwc

[cosmicstargoat]

A comma would have eliminated all ambiguity.  Without voice inflection, it could go either way.

Thank you for your concern.

[Chezz2]

Dr. of nothing.
I was making a point that you can change identities relatively easily on this fourm. The is one fo the reasons that I don't like it here and took a hiatus for a while.
Someone like you can come on **** around, then change identities and be someone that people actually like and respect without knowing that where the one one causing all the controversy.
Honesty is something that is hard to come by on a forum where you can change your identity relatively easily without anyone knowing the difference. Unless of course you writing style is identified. Which has happened more than once.

Chezz

[Chezz2]

Honesty, respect, and overall morals seems to be a problem for some here...

Cjdzz

[bmac]

Man, why is it when you spewing trash you use such intellegent words, you must be a 'writer'! Well, you ain't said nothin'smart yet fella! Hiding behind your little computer makes you feel so warm and fuzzy doesn't it and while we are at it I just learned you have been clean say about 120 hours, congrats, you are the master. You sir are an idiot! You don't need me to turn you into anything, you are doing a mighty fine job at that yourself. Hey next time you are in Bama look me up! Right now you are a waste of my valuable time, good day! Bmac

[cosmicstargoat]

So much for 7/24, your words, not mine.  

cya

[bmac]

Will You Please At Least Make Sense When You Post! Im Not Edgicated Like You Are! Or a Writer! God I guess your a liberal too. It is all making sense now, you are an idiot! LOL
I hope you do realize I haven't meant one word I have said to you today, I haven't even read one post of yours until you addressed one to me, see I mind my own business(yeah right). Anyway Mr. Goat sir, continue, Im listening!  Big Mac

[cosmicstargoat]

Cheese, you are about to give me a headache, son.  I mean, I am sitting here with a big, tall glass of Jack Daniels in front of me and I'm drinking it.  I rarely drink, but this is an occasion, you have outdone yourself.

Tell me, why do overalls need morals?  I simply have to know.

[Med-Help Forum Police]

Please be advised we have recieved 3 complaints in the last 24 hours regarding your conduct on our board.
If we recieve any more complaints we will email you and find out why your negative conduct continues, and then banning you if necessary.
Please be aware this is a public forum and we do not tolerate berating other members nor negative posts toward our members.

The Med-Help Forum Police

[Chezz2]

Can we get back to what this forum is for?
There are a lot of people out there that truly need HELP, SUPPORT, AND QUESTIONS answered.
That is what this forum is all about.
Your bashing of Michael is gone well overboard. So do you mind letting us getting back to what this forum si all about? Or do we have to cifer through your posts to find pertanent information regarding addiction and helping others through it?
I would appreciate if you would let us get back to what this forum is all about.
Thanks in advance,
Chezz

[cosmicstargoat]

Who do you think is prettier, Wilma or Betty?

[SarpyJesse]

Hmmm.........

You ask who's prettier: Wilma or Betty?

That's just too much to face at once. But I can tell you that I do prefer Mary Ann to that selfish "Movie star", Ginger.

Jess

[SarpyJesse]

When Cindy and/or Phil make statements regarding banning, they always sign their names. I smell a rat.

Jess

[bmac]

Addiction is a wonderful thing, don't cha think?
And BTW I don't know which one I would choose,Wilma or Betty or Maryann or Ginger but being myself and knowing me as well as I do, I'd prolly have them all and at the same time, so whats next?, so far I am batting 1000% !('nuff comas for ya now?),,,,,

[Kurt Cobain]

Well, "Med-Help forum police" notwithstanding, I have made my personal concerns in this issue clear via email to the administration here at MedHelp and am awaiting their reply.  Although I feel sorry for whomever is behind this needless and childish display (however many identities they may have), this should be a place for help, not distraction.  I encourage anyone else here who cares about the integrity of this forum to do likewise (I simply used the "***@****" email address and indicated in the subject line what the issue was).  Can you imagine if your first impression of this place was some of the junior-high school mentality bickering and name-calling we've seen in the last few days?  I know if it were me, I wouldn't be inclined to stick around. . .especially if I were already sick and desperate.  Losing potential family would be a true shame, especially since the majority of people here have such tremendous things to say and so much help, encouragement, and experience to share.

They say a word to the wise is sufficient. . .so perhaps on the behalf of all who are here to get better, I can simply ask that all the bullshit come to a halt, right now.  Of course, in the case of the unwise, a thousand words will fall on deaf ears -- that's where, hopefully, the MedHelp admins will come in if necessary.  Thanks, everyone, for hanging in there -- and to anyone newly visiting. . .give us a chance.  It really isn't like this all the time.

Peace,

Kurt

[bmac]

Nice name BTW, I have been here since last August. I came here for the same reasons we all do and I have been though many many arguments here and I have had discussions with Cindy about this kinda thing going on. First we are addicts and sometimes that ain't so pretty and sometimes we need to have these conversations. If you read one of my last posts to Goatbrain you would have read I meant nothing by them. I was only jabbing at him. It is stress releiving to me to have a good old word fight.

I ask in the future could you please address your complaints to us here and not to Cindy and Phil. They have enough to do without sending me and Goatman another email warning us about the fighting. They know us better than anyone. I am not talking down to you or trying to spar with you, I am just asking next time let US know about the problem and let's leave the Admins out of it! Thanks! Bill

[Ginaluv]

I ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT SUBOXONE. I AM IN THE RIGHT PLACE. I AN NEW  HERE. I AM VERY SERIOUS ABOUT THIS SITE. PLEASE TELL ME I AM IN THE RIGHT PLACE.   GINA

[bmac]

You are in the right place. Like I just posted sometimes addiction isn't pretty. Not all of us are in withdrawals and we tend to ***** alot and act like children. You will get alot of help here, you just gotta weed thru all the BS first!
Several people here are on or have been on SUBOXONE. So hang on til someone smart enters! Thanks and don't let this bickering mess with ya, It's waht happens when you get better.!LOL
             Bmac

[missbarbra6]

I have been on methadone for about 4 years and I am thinking about taking suboxone to get off of it. Is suboxone hard to get off of? Will I crave methadone's warm and fuzzy feeling ? that is why I hesitate to start the suboxone because i am so addicted to methadone. I do about 150 mg. a day of methadone .Will it make me sick to just start taking the sub? Will I feel bad or will I be okay and be glad i took it ? Do you immediately start feeling better or do you feel sick? I'm afraid to start taking it because I am afraid I will crave the methadone and than will not feel it  if I decide to start taking it again because the sub blocks the effects. I want to do the right thing . Does the sub really work ?Does the sub make you feel more in control and more alive not so dazed? please answer. thanx barbie

[FLaddict]

You posted on a post in the archives from 2003... if you would please post a new question on the new page.. Not everyone has the set up to read old posts.. I know a good deal about Sub so I can help.. I used it for 10 days..
For one you would have to taper down to 20-30mgs of methodone a day to make the switch.. and be in WD for 48 hours to start the Sub..

[pastAndFuture]

------------------------------------------
Is suboxone hard to get off of?
------------------------------------------

Not nearly as hard as 150mg of methadone/day, or any methadone per day for that matter. That is a high dose, do you have a history of using other opiates?

Yes, a new thread would be a good idea, could you repost your question?

-----------p&F

[pastAndFuture]

Hi,

You started this thread, and yet no one seems to have replied to you, save for FLaddict, who knows a lot about bupe.

Too bad the post went so poorly, not your fault, perhaps if you could post again, and hopefully the thrill-seekers will not use it for other means.

It is entirely possible to go from 1mg bupe to nothing, though you might consider taking .5 mg for a while. I have found that I have an easier time if I let my body adjust for 6 or 7 days at each dose level. Moving to nothing can then be somewhere between a cake walk and a horror show. I have done it before without too much fuss, though I did not get into recovery at the time, so never took advantage of being clean (and did not stay clean). I am now taking 1 mg per day, and getting used to it (day 4), though I'd be fibbing if I said I was feeling great. It is, however, a lot better than hardcore WD.

----p&F

[mom2rachie]

Gina posted this question in 2003.  There is a glitch.  I'm sure she doesn't even come here and has since found help for her problem.

[missbarbra6]

can someone help me. I am scared to take the suboxone because I am afraid I will go through withdrawels. I 'm on a really high dose of methadone and i really want to get off but I'm afraid if i take the sub i will feel so bad. what happens when you take it?

[pastAndFuture]

2003? WTF? Hmmm, sure glad I wasted my time, then.

What about miss barbra? Is this a current post? Transitioning from methadone to sub/ bupe can be tricky. In order for bupe to work, you have to be feeling pretty bad, though you should instantly feel better. The other problem with bupe after meth is that bupe has a built-in "ceiling effect", meaning that taking more bupe will not have any effect. The ceiling effect is different for different people, figure > 24mg is pointless for 50% of the population, though 32mg gets given out all the time. Sadly for me it's about 8mg.(!robbed!), maybe 12. THis means that if your meth habit is "bigger" than 24mg of bupe, you will feel WDs. This is why your methadone dose must be tapered first. The times I did this, it was not really painful until about 20mg, but we are all different. I strongly dislike methadone, as I have nothing but bad memories associated with it. Nonetheless, it is possable, and desireable, to switch from one to the other. I have not done this myself, but have known a few who have. I wold think that finding a good addiction doc would be the way to go, the risks of improper medicating are very real.

The worst thing you can do is to take methadone and bupe at the same time. The bupe will "kick out" the meth and argue with it, leaving you mighty sick indeed. This is why you must wait for a while after taking methadone. I wouldn't want to attempt this without supervision from an *expirienced* MD near by. Someone who has done this before. So, get an MD, then get good nutritional health brain balancing, get a support group, or person, then you new found "people" will help you through it, knowing what to expect at every turn. This will reduce the fear by a huge amount.

Let us know what you plan on...

------------------p&F

[soderbri]

I successfully switched from methadone to suboxone

If you are going to switch from methadone to suboxone, you MUST stop your methadone doses for 3 or so days before taking the suboxone. If you take suboxone while an opiate is in your system it will put you into serious withdrawals. Mehtadone has a huge halflife (at least 72 hours) so this is why you must wait 3 days.

I was on methadone for about a year at 80mg. I went from 80mg to 0mg and entered a 60 day inpatient rehab. This is where I learned that taking suboxone too early will throw you into withdrawal. The Dr. had to wait until I was in full blown withdrawal from the methadone before he satred me on suboxone. It was 3 and a half days of hell. Finaly I was givin 8mg of suboxone and most of my withdrawal symptoms were gone in 10 minutes. Over the next 4 days my dose was increased to 16mg of suboxone 2 times a day. And at that point I felt no withdrawal symptoms at all. I felt great all day long every day.

Over the next 2 1/2 months my dose was gradually lowered to 0mg. Dropping from 16 twice daily, to 12 twice daily, to 8 twice daily, to 8 once daily, to 4 once daily, and finaly to zero. I experieced some minor withdrawals after I went from 4 to zero. They wern't all that bad and they lasted about a week.

I would have to say that my detox went very smoothly. I was very dope sick for the first 4 days after stopping methadone but after my suboxone kicked I felt great. If anyone is planning on switching from methadone to suboxone, I would recommend getting your methadone dose down as low as possible. Around 30mg would be best.

Hope this helps someone.

[GMDaly1420]

I think that your comments are completely ridiculous.  I believe you should look at yourself before you start making arbitrary comments about things you no nothing about.  Addiction is a very insidious thing.  It affects everyone differently because of the extreme psychological differences.  And aside from that, you are a conservative for Godsake.  Take a look at yourself, and mabye you should sign up for the armed forces and go to Iraq, to fight this farce of a war.  No, actually I don't mean that because I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

[GMDaly1420]

I have to tell you, I have only been on Suboxone for 3 weeks, and I have to say the drug has been miraculous.  However, I am reserving decision considering Suboxone, even though it is much lesser of an opiate, it still is.  Before Suboxone I was taking 320mg. of oxycontin per day for over 2 years for pancreatitis, which was precipitated by drinking in my 20's.  The pain was excruciating, and any mild prescription, and especially anything over-the-counter wouldn't touch the pain.  I went to a gastroenterologist and he started me on 20mg. of oxycontin, and within 4 months I was taking 80 mg. tablets, 2 tablets 3 times per-day.  Eventually the pain wasn't as great but at that point it didn't matter.  I was already dependent on the drug, physically and psychologically.  I'm sorry to be so long-winded but I feel it necessary for you to understand the whole situation.  In any event, I tried to titrate myself off the oxycontin, to no avail.  Needless to say I recently went to a Dr. who could prescribe Suboxone, and I have so far found it wonderful.  No withdrawal accept nightsweats, which is a walk in the park compared to withdrawal when you go cold turkey.  I've read nothing but good things about the drug, but be prepared that when you do come off the Suboxone, you will go through some withdrawals.  Best of luck, and again I'm sorry I couldn't be more concise.

[GMDaly1420]

Thank you for your comments.  I didn't take methadone for very long, but I took it to come off oxycontin thinking it was a cureall.  I have to tell you, the withdrawal from methadone is nothing compared to oxycontin in regards to time and severity.  Thank you for your input.  I think your comment was the only one that made sense in regards to methadone withdrawal and Suboxone withdrawal.  Best of luck, but gratefully it looks like you won't need it.

[GMDaly1420]

I meant to say in my previous comment, that methadone withdrawal was much longer and severe than the oxycontin withdrawal.  This is a common misconception, considering methadone is used for heroin withdrawal.  Sorry.

[GMDaly1420]

I've been told you can titrate down to quarters, however, I wouldn't do that without talking to your prescriber.  It's not just an aspirin.  Best of luck.

[IBKleen]

GMDaly...

This thread was started 4 years ago. You need to come out to the forum and start your own post. No one will see this one.

[GMDaly1420]

I'm not understanding.  The last comment was posted on 7/19/07.  How was it started 4 years ago?  You'll have to excuse my computer savvy.  I haven't posted any comments until tonight.  It's sounds ridiculous but I only got this computer 2 weeks ago.  Thanks.

[GMDaly1420]

I by no means wish to come across as negative or sarcastic, but if I need to come out to the "forum", for someone to see this, than how did you come across it?  Again, no sarcasm, I'm being honest, First of all what does it mean to come "out to the "forum."  Thanks.

[EXPFG]

I see it.  Some of us don't care how old an post is, it applies to what we are going through right now.  I have my first bupe appt on Monday and like to read all I can about it.  

[rusty301]

I have a 18 year old son the started suboxone 3 weeks ago. I had a older son that died form Herion. Now my 18 year old just got busted for it. Should I be happy with suboxone and can he get to a normal life with it. How long does he have to take it, he is taking two pill a day not sure of the mg but is the smallest Dr. told me. Please answer I just about crazy with this.

[wait2long]

you have posted to a very old thread...please repost your question and start your own thread, you will get more responses this way.

yes, he will do well on suboxone, it is an excellent tool in conjunction with therapy, yes he can and will feel normal with sub...
because he is young i would recommend a short term detox with sub....but if he relapses, get him right back on the sub and then maybe talk to the doctor about longer term maintenance, at this point he will become dependent on sub and have to taper off it, but compared to heroin, as you know, sub is safe.
right now it sounds like he is on 4 mgs?  2 mgs tabs?  what color are they?  if they are peach/orange in color, they are the 8 mg tabs with 2 mgs of naloxone...
if they are the 2 mgs tabs, they are white...

i am so sorry about your loss, that must be devastating for you....please remember suboxone is safer than heroin at any rate...if theres anything i can do please let me know...my thoughts are with you...
my sincere condolences to you and your family...
good luck and PM me anytime....
W2L