Addicted to Percocet?

[TS1DS1]

I have had Crohnes disease for 15 years. I have had 5 surgeries the last two within 6 months. My doctors tell me I have nerve damage from all the surgery. I have constant severe pain in the lower right hand side of . I have been taking 1 percocet pretty much everyday in the afternoon (I can't take it during the day because I work) for almost 3 months. I go to a pain clinc where they put me on Neurontin which makes me too tired to work and tried Bio feedback which didn't work for me. The Percocet helps the pain but I feel I am addicted. Some days I feel like I need something really bad and I do not know what it is and then I realize after I take the Percocet I feel better. Sometimes I have that needing feeling during the day and want to take the medicine just to make it fo away but know I have to work. I want to stop taking them but I am I pain and feel if I stop I will have that bad needing feeling I can't stand. I am also afraid I will start taking more than one each day (sometimes I take more on the weekend because I do not have to drive or work). Is it all in my head? One a day seems like a small dose and the doctors told me to take it. If I stop taking it how long before the "cravings" go away?

[Neena]

Sorry to barge in on another thread but I need a quick answer to a question.  Is there any truth to the rumor that Darvocet can be used to help with withdrawals from Vicoden ES?  Does Darvocet contain a form of Methodone?  Is this a fact?  It does nothing for my pain, but I desperately need to know if they could come in handy for the three days of withdrawals and how to use them correctly in this situation.  Help.  Neena

[GypsyStevi]

Hello,
I was wondering if you have RSD in your hand? I know a little about RSD, my mom is suffering from that. It is a nerve disorder and my mom is in a lot of pain.
Hang in there,
Jackie

[TS1DS1]

I didn't proof my question very well! The pain is in my abdomen and it is all the time. The doctors told me basically the nerves are "fried" from being cut so many times. Unlike most people I hate the way the Percocet makes me feel, dizzy, tired, itchy, and very cranky! I want to stop but the pain is awful and the "cravings" are bad too!

[Jimenez]

Darvocet is a Class IV Narcotic. It is a synthetic narcotic that is a very, very weak cousin of Methadone. I've taken both and believe me - they are really day and night in strength...BUT YES - they will help in withdrawal cases. Now, if you were withdrawing from heroin - Darvocet would be the stupidest, funniest thing you could do...unless you shot up like 10 of them...But seriously - You didn't go into detail about how many Vicodin ES's you were taking so I'll give you a rough example. Say you're taking 10 Vicodin ES's a day. That's 75 milligrams of Hydrocodone. If I had that habit, I would expect to take 3 Darvocet (at first) as soon as withdrawal symptoms start (That's 300 mgs. of Propoxyphene and 1950 mgs of Tylenol). Now, different people react differently to Propoxyphene. If you have a HUGE Vicodin habit, you won't feel them that much, unless you really over do the Darvocet. If you overdo them - you will feel like you're high on Pot. I have actually had disturbances in vision from too much propoxyphene at one time - a crossed eyes feeling! NOT fun. So, only take as much as you need to kill the withdrawal symptoms but don't go over. Don't try to chase a high with the Darvocet. The high's not worth it and you should give your body a short rest anyway from all the Tylenol that's in the Vic ES's. Darvocet has 650 mgs. of Tylenol also, so don't overdo them. Darvocet also takes a little longer to get going in your system for some reason than say - Vicodin. Say it's 4 p.m. and you're starting to withdrawal from the Vics...take 2.5 or 3 of the Darvocet and wait. It WILL TAKE up to an HOUR for you to start to feel a little better. Vicodin is usually 20-30 minutes for me to start working...I wanted to tell you this because you'll feel like "These aren't doing anything!" and you'll want to take more. Wait at least an hour before you take any more. That's how I overdid it several times, I wanted to feel better immediately and took more before the first dose had a chance to kick in. Now at night: If you are nursing a large Vicodin habit - you should hold off on the Darvocet as long as you can before you go to sleep. You want the Darvocet to last as long as it can so you can sleep...Say at 11p.m. you take 2-3 Darvocet...if you have a high tolerance (i.e. a bigger habit - 15-25 Vicodins a day) expect to wake up around 3 a.m. with withdrawals...the weaker Darvocet not only won't satisfy your opiate receptors as much as the Vicodin, but it'll also wear off quicker. So keep a couple by your bed...if need be - chew them up a bit. I've noticed that if I wake up in the early morning with WD's and am relying on Darvocet to get me through - that hour wait before they start can really play with your sleep and patience...you're waiting for them to kick in so you can quit squirming, but you may have to lay there for awhile. I hope this all makes sense - YES Neena there is a Santa Claus and Darvocet WILL help you with your withdrawals. Of course, if you're taking 40 Vicodin ES a day and only have 15 Darvocet - You're gonna have a rough go of it anyway. But really - only take the Darvocet when you feel the WD's coming on OR BETTER YET - only when you can't stand it anymore. That way, not only will your body start getting some of it's tolerance back, but you'll conserve your Darvocet. Good luck and again, I hope this made sense and/or helped.

(Also, don't expect the Darvocet to make you feel GREAT or 100% better...all it will do is make life somewhat "normal" for you:) - meaning Life WITHOUT drugs. You'll feel as if you haven't taken anything at all and you'll feel like your endorphin supply is actually normal. This is the hard part - the reason we all started abusing the Vicodin to BEGIN WITH was so we didn't feel "normal" during the day with a "normal" endorphin supply...so the temptation to do more Darvocet just to "play" with your "sobriety" will definitely be there...but like I said - the Darvocet high isn't much fun anyway...give your body a break and good luck.

[Jimenez]

I reread my long-ass post and wanted to say one thing:

I recommended taking 3 Darvocet right off the bat for WD's...that may be too much for you if you are only taking 5-10 Vicodin a day. The Darvocet can be a weird drug and sometimes it will hit you differently than others...so, disregard my "initial dosage" recommendation and do what you think is right for your situation. DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT treat 1 Darvocet as equal to 1 Vicodin ES though. That will just lead to trouble. It's really easy for us to think "Oh, Darvocet is weaker so I need to take a LOT more to make up for the Vicodin." That's NOT necessarily the case. They are 2 completely different drugs and you shouldn't make an ='s chart for them if you can help it. Take as LITTLE of the Darvocet as you can to feel okay. It's weird...there's been times where I use Darvocet for this reason and I'll take 3 of them and I just feel "okay"...the next time I do this I may feel slightly or even REALLY spun from the same dose. So be careful. I'll quit rambling now :)

[GypsyStevi]

I am sorry, when I read your post I somehow thought you said you had nerve damage in your right hand.
Disregard me reply :)
And hang in there,
Jackie

[Angelica]

Well, hello there.  Still around I see.  LOL

[Francoise]

Watcha gonna do about the pain if you get off?

I'm taking oxycontin and although it scares the bejesus out of me to be on it, it really does work and works well. I just don't abuse it because it will kick your ass around the block and back.

But from what you say, I think you'd benefit from 20 mg oxy (that's only one pill) every 12 hours. It's smooth. No up and down. No mood swings. But it is addictive.

But you know, my friend with diabetes has to take his medicine every day or he dies.

My father must take his heart meds every day or he dies.

My friend with the transplanted kidney has to take his meds every day or he dies.

I have to take my meds every day or I die.

Can't see much difference. The oxy gives me a life I wouldn't otherwise have. Thomas got me thinking like this, and I will always appreciate it. And I got lots of other good advice from lots of others on this site as well.

Best to You,

Franc

[Thomas]

yes, Nina, Darvocet is chemically related to Methadone, although, as you've discovered, has nothing like the pain killing power of methadone. And, yes, darvocet will definately help ease the withdrawal symptoms from VicodinES, as it will even W/D from heroin. It's no magic bullet and won't make withdrawing from Vics painless. But I've used Darvocet many times to "hold off" the W/D's until my next Vicodin script was refillable. If managed well, you could use a gradually decreasing dosage regimen of darvocet to get off VicodinES. I would, however, have a box of brand name Imodium (immodium) handy as you might stil experience the runs from withdrawing from the Vics. This might or might not be necessary. I would start with 2 Darvocet N100's every four hours and gradually reduce it to one every four, then one every 6 hours, etc. -- whatever makes you comfortable. Many heroin addicts will use Darvocet or darvon to tide them over until their next fix. It's a partial solution at best for heroin, but a damn good one for withdrawing from Vics. Don't mix alcohol with Darvocet, however, as the tylenol in Darvocet will react with the alcohol and potentially harm your liver. You can, however, affect a more complete self-detox if you can add some benzos to the darvocet. Valium or Xanax or Librium or Klonopin in small doses accompanying the darvocet will give you an excellent level of relief from the Vicodin withdrawal. Good idea, Neena, all in all. Just don't OD on the Darvocet N100. I'd say two at a time would be your max. Don't take chances by taking three or more of the Darvocets at a time. Good luck.

Thomas

[Thomas]

sorry, my answer was for you, ts1ds1, not neena.

Thomas

[Thomas]

woops, screwed up again!!! My answer was for Neena. 'in too much of a hurry and getting distracted by "gladiator!" on HBO .... sorry for the confusion, folks.

[Thomas]

My good friend, Francoise, is right on the money, as usual. What are you going to do for the pain if you stop the Percs? Just live in agony? What kind of trade is that? Really, it's all part of the pain killng process to become at least a little dependant on that one perc or face withdrawal. It's perfectly natural and doesn't mean you're some kind of druggie. It's just my opinion, but I say stop worrying about a single perc a day and take it to preserve some kind of quality of life. If you stay perc free and also in constant pain, what good is that doing you? Believe me, one a day is nothing! The fact that you have been able to keep it at one a day speaks volumes for your self control and says you're not likely to become much of a perc junkie anytime soon. Why live in pain out of some guilt over needing the one perc to feel comfortable? Take it, enjoy your life and don't worry. You're doing great, as most docs would tell you. It's when you start taking 8 then 12 then 18 percs a day that you should become worried. One a day? That's fanatastic ts1ds1! Good show all around.

Thomas

[Neena]

Thanks so much for your input on the Darvocet thing.  I only took two after my surgery and have not used any since, so when I decide to stop binging, I will be happy to have them.  Speaking of binging, my addiction seems similar to my drinking.  Times of medium use, then times of very little.  I have never returned to my near death abuse that I suffered in November.  I lost days and had no control.  I know that I am still using, but each day I remember the days that "I don't remember" and feel a little stronger and more in control.  Thanks again for your help and support.  God Bless, Neena

[TS1DS1]

Thanks for he advise. It makes me feel better. I am just afraid 1 pill wont do it for me anymore. I do HATE being in pain and the Percs do help. THANKS!

[cindi]

Sorry to brust in on the thread,,,BTW< everyone has given such good advice re: the darvocet, and the Pian issue for the percocet  this is why I love this place so much.....anyway....I am still in Florida and I did speak with Brighty last night on the Phone....and believe me when I tell you she is as warm and as wonderful on the phone as she is is on this forum..she said to tell all of you that she ahs had the pleasure to have interacted with via the computer to tell you hello and she plans on coming back to the forum soon :)  she just decided that a little hiatus was in order....she is way cool and we are going to have a blast...we plan on meeting for lunch on Tuesday...she asked about all of you and asked me to send you all her love and hello.....i, myself am having a hoot here...Wiz sent me a cool card since I found some hot dudes he does not want me to forget my hotties here on the forum  LOL I told him that the hotties here can't compare to all of my forum boys...LOL  take care and have a good one    Love to you all  cin

[Thomas]

just make sure you share your hotties with Brighty ....

[cindi]

LOL   between you and Wizard I swear,,,,I got some mail for him making sure I didn't forget the hotties on the forum  and like I told him the hotties in florida can't compare to my hotties on the forum  LOL  you guys are of course the best,,, and Brighty, and I both know it...LOL and you know how we Forum "females"  (a few inparticular) can be when it comes to our forum men  LOL   Hope all is going well with you my dear friend.....take care and talk to ya later    love to all   cin

[skipper]

hey everone:
just started a post and the power winked real good ( beter part
of  second). it's day 2 of no oxy for me. i guess jones has arived.
didn't sleep at all last night but 20mgs. of valium let me lay real
still so my wife could. drifted off into some half awake condition
and my wifes alarm went off at 3;00 am. she had an early flight to catch (4:30). tried to get back to where i was but couldn't so got
up. i just got back from walking and jones isn't too bad. could it
be all vitamins you guys have got me taking? if it is i am indebted
to all of you for your help. my pain level is riding at +9. don't
know what i'll do next week when  i return to work. i guess i'm
lucky it's only half days. don't know if i will stay off oxy, but
need to dry out for a couple weeks. my daily intake of oxicontin
had gotten up to several hundred miligrams. i don't seem to have
real bad withdrawal yet- just my old friend pain in neck and arms.
be careful:
skipper

[Wizard]

Hang in in there man! I wouldn't worry about what you might be doing next week, concentrate on the here and now! Keep the determination flame going if you can. I know it's really tough man, but we are here in your corner for sure. There IS light in your future trust me I've been there and I see it daily now. I will pray for you as I do for all of us here. Have you tried the L-tyrosine B-6 regiment of Thomas'? It was a life saver for me when I kicked the "Dragon" a couple of months ago. When it gets tough instead of thinking of the oxy's come to this site and read a few threads and shout for one of us and we will be here for you. Above all never quit TRYING. No matter how many times it may take you CAN do this.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light on us all,
Wizard

[skipper]

wizard:
thanks for your concern. i'm on my own tonight as my wife is out
of town in St. Cloud, Minnesota. tis combo of L-Tyrosine and B-6
really seems to work. the "jones really seem to be held at bay.
so far to cramps, twitches, or any other of the more memorable
aspects of with drawal. i'm a believer and in great debt to this forum. Pain is still running at +9. wish i could take motrin or
some other n-said but they all inhibate bone growth and therefore
are off limits. my pain doc would rather increase my number of oxy-ir than have me take motrin! i really need this 2 week dryout
so i'm real scared there are going to be some rough days ahead of
me. knowing i can come to this forum has and will be most needed.
perhaps some day soon i'll share the details of how i got this
neck trouble.
thanks to everone on this forum
kip

[Milo]

Like Wiz said, call out to us and we will be here for you! The moral support & good advice from my friends here got me through a tough time with barbiturate withdrawal recently, and I'll never forget them for it. Just wanted to say I can feel the pain of that insomnia, man -- have been struggling through a bout of it myself, and it's hellish enough, never mind the other challenges you face. If you have enough, I suggest increasing the Valium a little just for now -- if 30 mg will let you get some sleep, you'll be able to deal with the other stuff better. You may also want to try Valerian & Kava Kava, both available at nutrition stores & good for sleep & relaxation. People respond differently to them, but they cannot hurt you & may help. In fact, I took some of each tonight, hoping tonight will be better than last night! I'll keep you in my thoughts & prayers. -- Milo

[Wizard]

Milo my brother, I've been bouncing all over this board with the intentions of posting to you sorry it took so long. It seems there is a few crisis' going on and i keep getting side tracked. I hope all is well with you dude. I really feel for you on this insomnia thing.. I HATE it when that happens. I had that problem all the time before. It seemed to settle itself out after the first month was over. Now I sleep like a baby even when I don't want too.LOL At least it might be something for you to look forward to. As I said before, IT GETS BETTER! God Bless you man! I'll say a little wizard sleep prayer for you tonight.
Power & Magick 2u,
Peace & SLEEP 2 U tonight,
Wiz

[Milo]

Thanks, my friend -- your magic must have worked, because I got a full night's sleep last night! The Magic Wizard Dust is potent stuff! --well-rested Milo

[skipper]

good people:
day 3 of no oxy. this vitamen stuff is miraculos! i seem to be stuck in some emotional state of vulnerability. everything i see
makes me want to cry. when it's not that i seem to be overly nostalgic. stuff from my past(believe me a lot of past& some
none too happy) seems in such sharp bright focus. W. S. Buroughs
in his famous novel(?) Naked Lunch dessribes the same thing. claimed it was what all junkys were really after-this nostelga
in vivid bright color focus & then killing with a shot of dope.
not killing mine today, but it is somewhat bothersome as painfully
beautiful as it is!
Milo: went through the barb withdrawal/detox thing in winter of 1974. They (the detoxers) used the berkly method, where they switch
you over to phenobarb in 1/4 grain tablets (just like the ones you
could steal from cival defence shelters. i swear the first couple weeks my dose filled up a dixy cup. If you beat the old barbs man
then you've slayed the most horriable monster in drug land! My
hat is off to you!
hope to post more later-
kip

[Milo]

Great to hear from you. Glad to know you're hanging in there and as tough as it gets, keep going! Just wanted to say I know exactly what you mean about the vulnerability & memories. Something in a movie or TV show pushes a button in me every now & then, and it's just like a tidal wave of emotion is let loose...I usually feel better afterwards, though, & maybe you have that to look forward to. Each day is a victory for you (us) right now, my friend -- keep that in mind!
Best wishes, Milo

[Wizard]

Hey let me tell you guys that the emotional roller coaster is normal and very real. Skipper, I swear the 1st 2 weeks of detox for me I was crying like a baby over anything. I mean a sad song,a touching commercial, movies even Disney cartoons. It really was like the "Naked Lunch". ( I thought I was the only one) It was freakking me out. I like to think I'm a big burly Sicilian Macho surfer biker dude LOL. And Hell, I am, but it's OKAY to FEEL LIFE man. And yes REAL MEN do cry. If you can sit and read this forum day and night and read about all the pain and not cry, Man, there IS something wrong with you. I will tell you this though, I've been clean since April 29th,2001 and I don't fall apart so quickly now. Sure, Disney cartoons still make me weepy, but I blame it on hay fever. (can't fool the wife though)LOL Life not numbed gets so much better and brighter! Congrats to you both for your accomplishments! Stay in the fight and you will see the Light! God bless you both!
Power & Magick 2 U both,
Peace & Light on us all,
Weepy Wiz

[skipper]

good people:
day 4.  full nights sleep. woke up with choppy stomach. i somehow had expectations of being over the physical manefestion of old jones & his worn out ****. can't complain to much though. took 3 mgs melotonin last night and it really seemed to help. took 10 mgs valium some time earlyer in the evening.
consulted the "Oracle" (i-ching) today. this is something i was doing on regular basis after last winters little stay (72 hour hold) in the local spin bin. quit doing it as soon as i set a surgery date. Last entry in my journal (log book?) was dated may
8-01. tossed hexagram 1 (the ceative) with a developement of hexagram 43 (breakthrough). hmm. a good one and a scary one. i always ask "what is best path thru today?". think i will use taoist translation as it alwys puts more concstrucctive slant on the interpation of each hexagram.
anyhow that little oxy devil still has got a strangle hold on me.
he must be kind of stupid (but patient) to not relize i have so
many other things and all of you people on my side.i still stand in total amazement of this vitamen thing and owe a great debt to this forum.
"spare your wrath and spare thy scorn,
for man needs help from every creature born"
(Bertolt Brecht)
be careful
kip

[Milo]

A full night's sleep -- that's great! That's a good sign that you're body's readjusting itself & that the end of this withdrawal ordeal will come soon -- something to be proud of & hang onto! Insomnia is miserable, I know. Thanks for keeping us updated, because reading about your experience helps me too. -- Milo

[skipper]

day 5, no oxy.
Didn't sleep at last night (wasn't there an old r&b song of that title or maybe it was the main line?). My mamma used to tell me
"there was no rest for the evil". Neck pain is riding at about at
+9.75. don't know how to get thru another day of this. It is now 4:00 AM cdt. My wife just got up to get ready for 4 hour drive to where she works today. It's back to work for me next week. (just half days.) Will try to post more later
"this may not be the best of all possible universes, but it may well prove to be one of the simplest." (Heiderberg) If man can only see.
PS wouldn't you
kip

[cindi]

Hang in there my friend..is there anyone that can help you and the pain?  i missed something the past few days...are you doing the detox schuffle cold turkey?  from oxy's?  maybe a doc could give ou something for the pain?  why suffer?  please fill me in...sometimes it's kind of hard while on vacation to keep on with what is happening   God bless you my friend   love to al   cin

[skipper]

yes mamm, thats me doing the old street detox. got really digusted
with myself for getiing up tp 120 mg of oxy bid. so-- last sunday
took the last of a very rapid taper using oxy irs. can't take n-saids or the newer cox type inhibitors as they prevent bone growth (don't want to jepordise the fussion in my neck). Made a
deal with pain doc that no one else writes for opiates for me. I
live in omaha ( small cow town turned city) so it's pretty easy for word to get back to him. anyway a deal is a deal--right. I go see
the pain doc for rx refills a week from next monday and i'm determined to stay opiate free untill then. Tuesday night i flushed the rest of the oxys down the stool. so-- no going back. i believe i can last till the 16th. using the magic vitamen regetment & taking asprin.
In other news my wife & noticed the hospital up the street had it'sER room roped off with do not cross yellow police line yesterday late afternoon. There were at least 7 police cruisers and the mobile crime scene unit. All the local TV stations had cam crewsbut no word of anything on the new. Heard thru the street line that a husband & wife team who had been wokin local Drs & forging rxs were found dropped off at the door of the ER (locally we call this a stop and drop and usually doesn't happen
at "nice hospital"). turns out the woman is dead of a oxy/duragesic overdose and the man had a gunshot wound  to the head. Makes me gratefull i'm not part of the street life anymore!
I'm riding a +9 pain, but i think i'll last till the 16th. i've
been through worse.
be real careful
kip
.

[cindi]

WOW,   good for you.....I never could flush anything down the stool..LOL hats off to you  an A for courage....the taper deal has always been hard for me....and anyone who has the guts to do it...sure shows me they truly do have the willingness...you hang in there   and you know where to come when the going gets tough..and as far as the dynamic duo that was dropped off...that is reality and I guess it takes reality checks to get us up on our feet again...when I worked at the hospital it was not uncommon to get our share of the stop and drops...we called them drop and rolls....good luck and God bless    love to all  cin

[skipper]

good people:
if your going to your hats of to anyone it should be to Thomas
who's taking on the old benzo devil. also Milo who kicked the a barb habit. opiate jones are kids stuff compared to withdrawal
from either benzos or barbs. idetoxed in 74 off injectable pentabarb. it's the worst drug induced  habit/withdrawal. so if
any hats go off- it's for Thomas & Milo.
mine certainly is
kip

[ssfr]

Please understand that all I want to do is understand. As every single participant in this forum knows, there are many, many different opiate painkillers available to those who need them.  Some are part of God's wonderful creation we call earth- some are synthetically produced, but still using God's basic chemical formulas. What I really dont understand, is since there are really legitimate reasons to use opiates- especially for pain- why the need to cold turkey, or wean, or taper, or whatever to get off of them- Skipper- if your pain is at a +9.00 plus, then it seems to me you have a legit need for help- certainly you cant get that help from nsaids, or anything else- what I am trying to figure out is, why do you have to stop taking the only remedy available to you that might help you live relatively pain free- (yes, I said relatively)- I suffer from such severe deteoriation of several joints, especially the hip joints, that I am the first to admit that relief I receive from my legal, prescription therapies is limited, and not at all as good as I would like- but at least it allows me to sleep sometimes at night, and not have to be in a wheelchair all the time.  I only ask you to consider that if your condition is so bad- you dont have to bow down to all the self righteous drug lambasters- they have never been in our situation, so it is real easy for them to condemn something they know absolutely nothing about-
God bless us each and every one

[skipper]

ssfr:
Please understand this is the addiction medicine forum. i'm suffering from the pain of 2 surgerys to my cervical spine that brought less than expected results. i'm also (before the spine
problems) a drug abuser, drug fellon, drug addict. my whole life
was deicated to the getting and using drugs (heroine, morphine,
dilauded) and finding ways and means to get more. i've been locked
up, shot at, and left in the cold from things i've done for dope.
i loved dope longer than it loved me!!!!  10 years + of shooting,
smoking, eating, & ramming it up my ass, and i never once gave it
a thought what i'ld if i ever really needed opiates for pain. now
i do. the problem is i have to locate and and strike a ballence
point between drug abuse and pain relief. i'm sorry,so far i've
failed. I jumped my dose of oxy up to 3 times what was perscribed,
to get the pain relief i need (or as close to it as oxy provides).
1 week from monday i go back to the pain doc. i will either get
more oxy, ms contin, or the patch. 2 week of drying out is painful,
but is also good for this junky. It will allow me to do some things
i haven't been able to do like make love to my wife, have a normal
BM, feel something (even  if it is only a +9 pain level)
SSFR, please understand i'm glad you get the limited amount of
pain relief you do. You probably deserve more. Please understand
that sometimes the only cure for this junky who, is in pain, is
a little bit of dryinng out (kicking). maybe then the drugs will
actually work for me for awhile.
you and the pain you suffer will be in my prayers
kip

[ssfr]

Thank you so much for your kind words kip, and please know that I will keep you in my prayers and wish that everything works out for you. Good luck- I believe you can and will succeed at whatever you wish to- God bless!!

[Wizard]

You said you wanted to FEEL again. Kip, that last post was as REAL a post as I've ever read. It goes with my above post about us all being different but yet still very much alike. I can understand that sometimes feeling pain is better then feeling nothing. You hang in there man! You do what you gotta do. No matter what the outcome know that we love you and will be here for you rooting and praying.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light & Rainbows <----my new sign off now LOL,
Wiz

[skipper]

day 6 no oxy.
boy have i ever been jacked up today. i think it's some kind of a
tone up high from oxy withdrawl. actually i kind of liked this surge of energy. helped a friend pickup a cabnet from a second junk shop today. while i was there i picked a real nice Stanley
level and a "jenny" (transitional jack plane). have i ever mentioed i'm a woodworker and antique tool colector. Have had to stay from my shop when i'm full of oxy. (i've allready lost part
of my "bird finger"- only time i miss it is when i'm driving and
i flip someone off- they just laugh at my half finger!)
anyhow i really had a good day for a change. yesterday i slept thru an appointment with my pain counselor. He worked me in late this afternoon. I felt so bad i made him a copy of rodney crowel's
new cd, "houstan kid". this cd is the closest thing to a 4th step
put to music since john hiatt's "stollen moments". This counselor
is so young you can't talk music like john hiatt,john prine,guy clark, townes van zandt,billy joe shaver, etc add infinitum. my
mission is to bring this youngster up to speed in the world of good music. oh yeah tom russtle and dave alvin too.
i want to excuse myself to anyone who found my last posting to be
a bit too abrasive or rough and crude around the edges. i'm really
a sweetheart when i'm not looking at things to closely.
ya' all be real careful out there, i need every one of you-
kip

[Milo]

Hey skipper, you sound better every day! Sounds like you're doing well, & I hope you continue to feel better -- and get relief from your pain when the time is right. Your story is one more source of inspiration for us all. -- Milo

[skipper]

day 7- no oxy!
I'm so jacked up from the withdrawal tone up i'm starting to disturb my wife & even old kip here! Got up at 6:30 AM  and walked the dog 2 quick miles. then went out and bought a 100 boardfeet of 1/4 sawn white oak. don't have any idea what i'm going to build yet (i don't have enough whit oak yet). Since turning 50, i've been thinking about "eternity". i will never have enough money to donate to the university i work at to get a building named in my honor. i probably will never be any kind of "hero" whom history will remember.so-- my plan is to build a piece of furniture or cabnet work that i can donate to the university. something that someone will see 100 years from now and  think damm- whoever built this really loved wood and new what they were doing. you know maybe something right from my heart that people can park their ass on. anyhow that's how i plan to grab a little piece of eternity. i think if i can stay
humble enough i might have a good chance at it. the work i do at
the university is broad band high speed data communications. this
work evolves constantly. i used to be intrested in it but now it's just one more ever changing thing to stay on top of (you can never quit learning). There is no eternity in that other than change is eternal.
boy listen to me blaber on
kip

[Wizard]

Hey Kip, you sound jazzed alright :-) it's amazing hows the rush of energy comes sometimes. You keep yourself busy and it does go by easier. You seem to have the will and determination to see this through......YOU GO DUDE! Anytime you want talk look for me here or you can reach me at ***@****
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard

[skipper]

it' such a feeling of security kowing there are people who understand & do not judge! thankyou to everyone
my E-mail (for now anyway) is ***@****.
this is a pointer thru a system that may go away sometime. will let
you know what "new" address to use. i hate technology but thats
what i've wound up workin in. a job is a process that makes you
hate what you were once intrested and exited about. going to try
to swim some laps today! back to work half days tomarrow.
be really careful as i need everyone on this forum
kip

[skipper]

hey there!!
just got back from trying to be a swimmer. now understand i haven't
been swimming for over 3 years because of neck trouble. saw a bunch
of folks i used to swim with everyday. i used to be faster than most of them. guess what? all them swam faster and further than me!
my ego is in the process of recalibration. i'm suprised how much of
my self worth i had tied up in just one activity! it's going to be a longway back! really didn't do to bad- 1000 yards (just over a
half mile) in 21 minutes. went another half mile with flippers & a
kick board-- well it's a start. my neck felt good in the water, but
now it's +9. like i said it's goin to be a long way back! my goal is to be up to 1 non-stop mile (i don't care about the time) by the
end of july.

back to work & swimming every day for me (i hope!).
kip

[cindi]

YOU GO !!! :)   I'm glad to see you are in such good spirits...My buddy Wiz must be sharing is wizard dust with you...when he shares with me,,,I feel tons better about things...hell, about life in general..hang in there....please, just take things easy in the water until you get used tho it again..I would hate to see you take one step forward and two steps back.....love to all       cindi

[skipper]

hey all:
Your support is ongoing & life saving. words fail my gratitude.
however:
1)i want to smoke camel straights
2)i want my veins back
3)i want to carry on all night, work a full shift, without eating
  or sleeping,come home and start the cycle all over again.
4)in short part of me wants to respend my missspent youth (this
  time I'ld really know how much "fun" i was having.)

oh well--see there i go again. But goddamm i want to swim the english channel anyhow. 8 days no oxy. a week from tomarrow i see
the pain doc. maybe more oxy, maybe something else like the patch.
pain is a very faithful, but unpleasent companion!
cindi: are you back from vacation? also did you really shoot up
pentabarb. i used to do it, it led to rug burns on my face. never
could figure out how that happened. i spent 8 weeks in a psych ward (no detox back then), used the Berkly method of detox which involved swithching me over to phenobarb. they brought my dose in a dixy cup full of 1/4 grain tabs. i believe if you can go thru the horror of that, there is nothing worse. (the king kong of drug withdrawal) the first 2 weeks i couldn't talk, just word "salad". The ******* shrink i had told me that it was perminate brain damage. ah-- the old days weren't so good after all!
the little kids were at it  shooting each other up last night. things have sure gotten a lot more vicious!
it gets better with help from friend forum & otherwise-thanks
kip

[Milo]

Skipper -- 8 days, *congratulations*!!!! You've made a terrific accomplishment, no doubt about it! And you're exercising more than I am these days :). I hope you're able to get some effective pain relief that you can also feel comfortable with. I look forward to hearing how it goes w/you.
Wizard & Cindi -- Hi to both of you. Hope everything is going well! -- Milo

[skipper]

day 9 : no oxy
it's 4:05 am. walked dog and am now ready for my first half say of
work! Plan on swimming after. Hey Milo: If ya can up your activity
level- the pay off is so great.Just hope I'm not pushing to hard
on myself!
have a great Monday, i'm going to.
kip

[cindi]

LOL   Sometimes my buddy Wizard refers to me as Dorothy,,,we share those flying monkeys,  and the beauty of being over the rainbow,,,,Gilligan's island was my favorite sitcom next to Gomer Pyle and the Wizard of Oz,  my all time favorite movie...  I can watch them for hours and when I saw your name was skipper I thought of Gilligan. and decided to refer to myself as Gilligan...I can be your little buddy,,LOL as long as you don't beat me over the head with your skipper's hat..LOL  Congratulations to you....again, wiz must be spreading his wizard dust al around.    be careful,,,,and if you need anything at all you know we are all here for you....love to all   cin

[skipper]

back home from first half day of work. i swim at the university i
work at so went directly to pool. swam 1500 yards non stop and then
some one else got in the same lane as me. got real scared about the
fusion redo i'm recovering from, so swam 300 more yards with kick
board & flippers. what i think are yards may well be meters. the pool is 50 meters long with two moveable bulkheads that the pool
staff fucks with constantly. i used to know wich it was by my lap
time, but that was a long time ago when i was much younger and in
far bettet shape. it's really something going from youg to old in
space of about 3-4 years. don't care about speed at this time rightnowjust distance. 1800 yards or meters = aproximately 1 mile. i probably would have done that today non-stop, but like i said i got scared. maybe tomarrow. how many people on this forum swim laps? as much pain as i'm in i feel great when i'm in water (especiallywhen its over my head deep). i can't say enough good things about swimming. it's probably the only exercise besides walking i can do.when i swimm i feel as if i'm freed of the limitations of pain from my neck. kip's escape from wicked gravity!
really tired must take nap
kip

[cindi]

I love the water and swimming but as far as laps go?  LOL  I get a raft and float...that is what I truly am a professional in is floating, volley ball, handstands in the water  etc...I remember when I was pregnant with both my kids,  I would get on my floaty raft and fall asleep  one time I fell off while was sleeping  damn near drowned..LOL I do have to admit....Since I have developed all of my back problems I just get in the pool, get my little ole boogie board and it helps tremendoulsy with the tight muscles etc.....unfortunately, I can't swim year round since this is Ohio but,,,,when i move to florida....I'm almost 100% sure I'll have a pool,,,and year round swimming...whcih to me means.......year round tan.....LOL   I am so happy for you....hang in there and as Angelica says   Chin up......love to all   cin

[skipper]

If i'm going to be skipper i've got to gain a lot of weight! since may 14 i've losst 35 pounds! i weighed 229 at my pre-op physical. the scale in the health, phy ed.,recreation bldg. wherei swim said i weighed 192. the post-op spasams i'm having (still) having in my throat make it almost impossible to eat solid food. it's slimfast for breakfast,slimfast for lunch. at 5:oo pm i take 10 mgs valium. by 6:00 pm i have a 1 1/2 hour window where i can get solid food down, with out extream pain. I also seemed to have lost "intrest" in the culinary aspects of my life. (i mean food really turns me off). Talked to neuro-surgeon's P.A. and the nurse bsn at the neuro-"science" clinic and no one seemed to concerned. The most they would do is call more valium in. i hate valium and i'm real scared of getting dependent on it just to eat. The nurse practiioner told me "gee
i wish i could lose that much weight". any how the good Dr. will
look into at my next appointment which is the end of august.

on a much more disturbing note my father is in a nursing home 3 1/2hours drive from here. Some sort of senile dementia has been progressing rather rappidly. he's lost the ability to convey thoughts verbally. the sad part is he hasn't lost the knowledge of whats going on. he trys to convey thoughts and fails and then wrings his hands in frustration. Yesterday my mother told me he
had finger nail claw marks, a black eye, and various bruses all
over his body. The nursing home staff dissmissed it as my father's fault for being physically uncooperative. they also have
my mother quite frightened by telling her about the long waiting
list of people trying to get family into this facility. my mother
is getting kind of out of it herself so it's difficult to really
know whats going on. So- +9 pain or not i'm going up friday and
coming back late Monday. i will try to contain my temper, but i
really want to  kick ass on whoever did this to my father. The county attorney is a person i went all the way back to grade school with. One of my sisters has connections in the state health service that over-sees nursing home license, etc. just the same i've already asked how much it would cost to have this person or persons arms broke. i'm so mad i can't even express the depth of darkness my anger is residing in. i just hope i don't go balistic and wind up in trouble myself. My pain doc moved up my appointment to this wednesday, after i explained whats going on. such a nice person (how did he ever become an MD). He even said he would make himself or whoever is on duty to cooperate with the local docs in my home town if needed. so sorry to vent all this, but my father a doctor himself, deserves more from a community he servred selflesly for 40 + years. right now all i can do is pray for guidence', strength, and acceptence.
thanks to this forum-- you people may be the only thing that will
help keep me glued togather as my wife is out of town working.

gratefully:
kip

[cindi]

I am very very disturbed by your above post, not only re: your physical health and the unprofessional uncaring wisecracks from the nurse practioner but the bruising etc, that have been found on your father.someone must be contacted immediately but please, do not become physical and agressive with the staff yourself as this may invalidate any complaints you have against the home...i was in a very similar situation when my mom was in the nursing home,,they were brutal...I did do what was necessary and I contacted the state and they then proceeded with an investigation.If you would like to contact me via e-mail ***@**** I will be more than willing to help you in anyway I can...My God,  this upsets me,,,you have no clue how I feel about this topic...very touchy for me and it has to be stopped...if you need me,  I am here, as I am sure the rest of your friends on this forum are here for you also.....love to all  cin

[Wizard]

Man, you sound like a real warrior dude! I really feel for you in the parent dept. It is a travesty to a civil society to treat anybody much less the elderly the way that SOME nursing homes do. Kip, I will surely will pray for you and your family tonight Kip. About the weight thing, Are you getting the nutrients you need? As long as you are I think your body will level itself out at a point, but if you are burning more calories than you are replacing and you start to deplete all of the glycogyn in your body it will start feeding off your muscle mass. Not a good idea.
This was known to me as "hitting the wall" when I was running long distance races. Get the nourishment any way you can, especially when kicking the "Dragon". God be with brother, try to keep your cool when dealing with the animals at the clinic. We don't need to lose you to temper when you can gain so much more with your obvious high intelligence!
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light on us all,
Wiz

[skipper]

cindi: don't worry about me going off or acting out. i have the
potential to be a very loyal loving person. i also have another
side of me that is very anger driven. Don't worry, the anger driven
side is very patient,cautious, & cunning. Perhaps if you'ld like to hear more about that i will e-mail you. in the last 20 years my
anger driven side hasn't come out. anyhow i'm cool for now. your
concern means very much to me!
Wizard: yes i am a warrior. Before i got in recovery i lived in mineapolis, minn. hung out with a family of lakota sioux. they told me i was a warrior. gave me the nick name hourse chaser. i don't know if this was a joke or if they really ment it.

I 've been tryin real hard to keep up on my nutritional intake. my
6:00 pm after valium meal is a lot of raw vegtables (i'm to lazy
to cook them), small portion of meat & cheese & somekind of carbo-
hydrates. i know about the "wall". in swimming long distances used to hit & go thru on a regular basis. swimming has a somewhat
diferent wall than running- instead of pain you become utterly
exhausted & disoriented. man once you punch thru though your in
la la land. it' to bad there isn't a drug that could duplicate
that feeling. 10 years ago i'ld get up at 3:00 am drive downtown
to the ymca pool that opened at 4:00 am and swim 3 miles non-stop. then at lunch I'ld swim 2 more! the lunch hour swim i'ld hit the "wall" every time. it was great! i'ld get home from
work flooded with endorphine. i'ld be asleep as quick as i could
sit down! my wife didn't care for this too much so i dropped back
to just 2 miles a day. One of the things i've always wanted to do
is swim the english channel== but i'm 50 so maybe thats one dream
best walked away from. when i was doing 5 miles a day my resting
pulse rate was around 48 per minute. blood presure of 100 over
68. I doubt i'll ever get back there again. i'll be happy with
2 miles a day (and thats a way off!

again thanks for concern & support.
kip

[Wizard]

Sounds like the wall is the WALL man! When I was running, I was doing 6 miles a day for 5 days, 1 day off and 10 -15 miler on the 7th. I sure miss those endorphins man. The runners high was the best to me. I'm 47 and I don't think I'm gonna make it to Boston either. LOL But Bro, I can walk when some have to crawl.It sure was tough having to give it up. But what the hell, you never know. I once ran the Bay to Breakers in San Francisco behind a 74 year old man who I talked to after the race. Funny thing was out of over a 100,00 people I ran into him and found out he grew up with my mother  and had never run a block inhis life until after a triple heart bypass at 68 years old. He started walking to the mail box and ended up a world class Senior runner. So, miracles DO happen man. After my back surgery I thought I'd never be able to sit longer than 10 minutes at a time. 3 years later I'm riding a Harley...Go figure! God loves me man. I gotta take what He gives and smile because He's given me a lot. You keep hanging in there and You will see! Bless you man, and may you have and eternity of happiness...Lakota tribe huh? that's WAY COOL! later,
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light on us all,
Wiz

[Milo]

Hey, just wanted to tell you, after reading your post earlier I was pretty angry myself! My parents are in their '70's, and just the thought of something like that...I understand how you feel, or at least can imagine. I'm glad to hear you say your anger is cunning & patient because that's what the bastards deserve -- a cool-headed & relentless warrior! Please let me know how it goes, & I'll keep you & your dad in my prayers!
PS -- You've convinced me to bite the bullet & get started on an exercise program. So I'll let you know how that goes, too. -- Your friend Milo

[skipper]

day 10: no oxy. It's 3:45 am. Sleep eluded me last night. This is the kind of stuff i was afraid of before going back to work. I'll
live but i'll sure be dragging my ass today!All the commotions of
emotional health have me wrung  out! "thats the trouble with living
in this world today-- you never know how your going to feel from one moment to the next. Ahh but a drug addict knows-- they just
have to look at whats in their spoon, or the pills they have in their hand-- thats how they're going to feel." (Drug store cowboy
by Jim Fogle.) What movie, complete with a walk on part from W.S.
Burroughs.
guess i'ld beter get ready for work
there's lotsa a broken network stuff
to fix
kip

[skipper]

Thankyou for your concern. Get going on that exercise. Don"t think
of it as a program. Find soe thing you really will grow to love
doing, and  get obcessed (spelling it is only 3:50 A.M.
more to be revealed- they say
kip

[cindi]

EWWWWWWWW  i hate ot when I can't sleep  last night was one for me also...I feel asleep at 3:30 and had to get up for work at 5:30 but...5:00  came and I was up....i pissed around till now,,,shower time and work time....hang in there and have a good day my friend.....love to all   cin

[skipper]

Just got thru checkin my lotus note e-mail at work (first time
since may 7). 835 messages - i've got special privalages here,
any body else would have their account turned off at 100.
any how, i hope no one on the forum e-mailed me cause i just
did a mass deulete. no way will i wade thru all that.

found a note i wrote to myself last january. this was the day
before my suicide attempt.

"give me back my steel, give me back my nerve,
give me back my youth for the dead man's curve.
give back all the love i didn't deserve.

all the years of driving so hard
just to find out i crashed in my own back yard."
            (Written by John Hiatt)
            ( off "Crossing Muddy Waters")

wish i would have written that! it speaks volumes about where
i'm at now & where i was back in January!
kip

[skipper]

back from the grind. goddamm i hate that place! just got notice of what my "raise" will be this year. i'm about up to what an associate professor makes (no tenure-**** it wouldn't want anything
i publish to become the "intelectual property" of that university
of mediocrity).
good news though:
i swam a nonstop mile today at lunch. went 4 more laps with flipper
and kick board for a total of 2000 yards. i'm 4 days ahead of ex-
pectations!

my wife will be back earlyer than expected. will need her help on
the 3 1/2 hour drive up to NW iowa where my fater and mother live.
hope to get some things straightened out.
more later
kip

[Wizard]

Good luck with drive Kip. Remember wqhen you get there to keep the temper in check and be "CUNNING"........I'll pray for your success.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz

[skipper]

day 11- no oxy.
go see pain doc today-maybe i'll be back on oxy-maybe the patch.
decided to leave for my parents next sunday. The reasion for this
is that's when I could make appointments with both their MDs.
besides the horid stuff that is going with my father, i'm real
woried about my mother. She (my mom) has advanced osteo degeration of the spine at all levels. She can't (won't) take
anything that give her evenp partial relief. (how could someone like
me come from her?). Her Dr. is a real nice guy-but i don't know.
the last time i spoke with this Dr. i asked him if he would put  
my mother on percodan-demi. The good Dr. told he didn't believe
in putting his elderly out patients on demoral. what a goof ball!
he thought the demi was short for demoral! I explained to him
that the demi was short for the latin word demitasse which means
half. med schools  should reinstate the required 2 semesters of
latin in pre-med requirements. the joke was on me though, my wife
told me they quit making percodan-demi a year ago. My mother can't even take t3s(she spends half the day vomiting). how can
i be related to her? anyhow going to ask my pain doc if he will
be willing to examine my mother & work with her local doc.what
she needs is for someone to build her slowly up from very small
doses to a dose that has pain relief levels. this isn't a difficult concept. 2 summers ago my mother's doc put her on
ms-contin, 30 mgs, the poor woman never got more than 3 feet
something to puke. one thing i do know is docs really resent
suggestion (even ODs.) from us commoners. this whole thing could
be as simple as starting her out T-1 and building her up very
slowly. Any how I think my pain doc can maybe help her. that is
if an MD can work with an OD. not a title for us addicts is there.
more later:
kip Junky-PHD

[skipper]

forgot to mention in my last post My neurosurgeon is setting up
for the old barium (spelling) milk shake. This clinic that my surgeon is in just hired a throat (oto-lar-- **** it's to early
for all these titles) doc. they also some snot fancy digital
x-ray maachine that records in real time. The company that makes
this little techno wonder is in Germany and the tech people
came from Heidelburg to set it up. i get to be the first patient
they try it on! oh-boy. funny thing about all this-i don't seem
to really miss eating solid food. as matter of fact i'm down
right disintrestd in food all togather. starting to wonder if this whole thing is psychological.

have a great wednesday
kip

[cindi]

You are good...LOL   and I love how you are so compassionate with your mom,,,God, How I miss mine....she suffered intense pain and besides that noone could find a reason for her pain so they chalked it up to being in her head...(after it was too late and she had died did they realize that the pain was from a gut infection that later since it went undetected tranposed itself into her blood and then was labeled sepsis.....whcih is what she died from....I threw around the N word  (neglect) and everthing else to get them to increase her meds....she took her pills "responsibly"  gram does to...so   How do I come from her....?  oh well,  God Bless our mom  I know how that is...my mom had a hard time handling meds so does gramma...and  God love her she tries....about 13 years ago gramma was on her way to work she was 73,,,and had worked as an elevator operator for 40 some years...a young man said good morning to her  it was 6 am...he then beat her up  broke her hip and gave her a pretty bad concussion...he then stole 5 dollars and left her laying in the alley....well now her "new" hip is wearing out and the pain is tremendous....she takes 1/2 a regualr str. vicodin a day....LOL  and that seems to help...anything else she pukes etc....or can't swallow...she would die if she knew how many I could down at once LOL  anyway....she is so depressed since my mom died....(this past christmas morning) and it was her only child...i have, like you tried to talk to the docs...even though I am a nurse I thought they would at least listen but.....that makes it worse,,LOL   it is hard raising parents.....LOL  well, my friend    good luck to you and your new  German followers  LOL  technology never ceases to amaze me......BTW>>>>the word is Otolaryngologist...LOL  if there was anything in my life that I have ben good at is spelling, Nursing and birthing babies.....Love to all  cin

[skipper]

something bad seems to be happening physically.was talking to a
friend at work and my vision just seemed  to white out if that
makes any sense. felt as if i was going to pass out so i got down
on the floor as quick as icould (ya can't fall off the floor). my
vision came back & felt somewhat beter. some one got a chair and
as soon as sat down samething- vision white out dizzy etc..
i thought i was having a low blood pressure attack, but when i got
to the nurses office my bp was 110/88, pulse 92 temp 98.2. I then thought low blood sugar because of this throat thing. A co-woker
drove me home as this vision thing keeps happening. am i having
a TIA? it is now 12:30, i see pain doc at 3:15. I'll have to take
a cab. I'm real scared as i've never felt like this. whats going
on?
dizzily
kip

[cindi]

Wow,   ok  first of all what does your normal BP run?  like mine was 200/120 before i was diagnosed with hypertension then when it dropped down to 110/70 I was sick and dizzy etc....do you have a history of stroke or TIA in your family?  or with you?    you say this has never happened before...ok  think about your medicine,,you have been off oxy's for what about 2 weeks? are you on anything else?   did you feel better after you laid down?  are you diabetic?  there are a ton of things that a doc would have to take into consideration before making a definate diagnosis...it could be you are not eating properly and are lacking vitamins. maybe dehydration etc...you need to discuss your symptoms with your doc today.....like now today when you go in....good luck and let me know what is happening,,,I'll be waiting to hear from you     love to all      Cindi

[skipper]

bp is close to normal range.
took 5 tsp sugar in half glass hot water-seem to be returning to
whatever is normal.
got to go to pain clinic soon-
will let ya know what i find out.
kip

[skipper]

back from pain doc. boy am i ever in trouble. told them about my
oxy detox (not why). They were intrested in Thomas vitamen regiment
but also incredules (spelling). well what could there be to it, if
PURDUE pharm. wasn't pushing it. so i'm back on oxy-ugh!! It isn't
wise to practice medicine without an MD, and damm maybe there right. 1/3 irs as last time. doing it slowly is probably best-but so long sex, regularity, and feeling any emotions for awhile.
But get this: I told them i started swimming again. that's when
the **** really hit the fan. where is your proposed exercise plan
that we were to approve?. told them about the white outs and just
about passing out today, & they think more energy is going out
than is going in. they found it hard to believe i figured out on
my own about white suger in hot water.(maybe i should have blamed that on Thomas too!).
speaking of Thomas: I must say i've really missed his posts. i know
that work can really kick the **** out of person, but damm, I have
really found it hard to adjust to his reduced presence.
i work in the computer field myself, well data comm. i live at layer 1,2,&3 of ether-net protocal 802.3 and later numbers i've
made great effort to never remember.
Milo: have you got going on some exercise plan? starting is the
most difficult part for me.
wizard: ya be careful on that hog. real careful dude. we need
ya too much for you to get pasted by some dumb **** who "didn't
even see you".
cindi: words fall short of my gratitude. your rapid reply did
more for this old junky then I could ever express!
Jenny: whats to say, other than what i've already said: there is a way thru and were all in your going to find it for you. Do the
things in front of you and always remember all the ears on this
forum, that are here to listen. Oh that part about that do whats
in front of you doesn't apply to a big pile of drugs.
Meaty boy (his real name is Dutch) is itchin for his little walk
about. lots of pee mail post to ponder and respond to.

be careful, i need everyone on thi forum
kip

[cindi]

Hey you.....I'm glad you are ok...I have been thinking about you since that post.....and you had better be carefull,,,,,your new found Little buddy (me, Gilligan) wouldn't be real happy if anything were to happen to you....listen skipper,,,,I, we  all need you as well her on this wonderful peice of technology....since I have given faces to everyone here, I think its about time to give my skipper a face....give me some time and i'll get with ya later    love ya    cin

[Milo]

Hey, I'm glad to hear you're OK too! Your earlier post about hating where you work reminded me of *me* lots of days... Anyway, I'm buying a Walkman or whatever & plan to hit the pavement/sidewalk beginning this weekend. I plan to start walking & maybe work up to jogging as I did *long* ago.  You'd better keep me on my toes, or I may not go through with it! Like Cindi said, you be careful & let us know how you're doing with everything -- we need you here, my friend! --Milo

[Milo]

I'm glad to hear that they didn't think your "whiteouts" were caused by anything too serious. I know how "fun" those barium shakes are, but drinking it is better than the other possibilities! Hope they find the cause of your throat problems & are able to take care of it soon.
I'm unfamiliar w/your breed of dog, but they probably have a few internet sites devoted to them, so I'll look it up!
Keep us updated & be careful w/your neck! -- Milo

[skipper]

It's 3:oo am here. bad pain night + going back on oxy has really
****** up my sleep. If you can, get yourself a dog. it's a big
comitment but the pay off is even bigger. Yo'll walk everyday be-cause the dog will force you (at least mine does) to. also sort
of  like this forum- uncoditional love. whatever it takes to get
you up and going - just start out easy & slow. i din't and it
kinda blew up on me.
kip

[Milo]

Man, I'm sorry to hear you're still having trouble w/pain & insomnia. If it keeps up, let the doc know. My way of thinking is, if you've got to take meds for the pain, you ought to get relief! I hope this all levels out for you soon.
I'm thinking seriously about a dog. Nothing is more fun & relaxing than taking a dog on a tour of the neighborhood, I know.  Our family dog used to love walking & got hyper-excited every day when it was time to go. Yep, I think I need a dog to take care of me!
Hang in there & keep me posted on everything -- Milo

[Wizard]

Kip,i'm with Milo on this. If you have the pain and are supposed to take the Meds, you should get the relief. Don't think you F**ked up. You just wanted to get right just like all of us here. Man you got some real physical issues that need to get handled before you start trying to get off the meds. Listen to your Docs man. I mean you are talking abouth your neck and bone fusions and stuff that has to heal. DON"T RUSH THE proccess! You've got the rest of your life to get right, BUT AFTER you physically heal. Please heed the signs. We need you here and I'm sure your needed where you are. Don't hurt yourself more because of impatience. I'll be praying for you bro! God bless you and keep you well.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light on us all,
Wiz

[skipper]

Hey milo:
I'm not sure of the geographic location you reside in. If its a
location where they have real winters (with snow).If so might
suggest a Kees hound. Thats the kinda dog i have. 100# in a 50#
package! They are double coated so they don't do to well in high
tempetures. But when the temp drops below 60, they will take you
for a long, fast clip walk. they also have loads of personality.
a male is much more of a live wire than a female. they are also
in my opinion one of the more beautiful breeds. it's kind of strange to have a dog that is much beter looking than i am!
when i saw the pain Doc yesterday he said my fainting  problems
were probably due to more energy going out of me than goes in.
hmm. sounds like i'm having trouble striking a balence. well at least i'm no stranger to that one! there is a way thru anything
though, ya just got to be willing to trudge along until you find
it. i haven't given up hope & don't intend to. i've got to many
things in my corner--things like this forum, a beautiful wife, &
of course a dog who is beter looking than me.
I'll probably post more later. at the moment it's time to go drink
my barium milk shake (oh boy- yum yum). I'll do anything to get through this not being able to swallow solid food. it's really
geting to be a real drag.

more later
kip

[skipper]

hey there people! (whats happenin' joon bugs)
today was a vast improvement over the last couple days. nice &
dull and predictable.
did you people ever hear the old chinese proverb ( you saved this
one for your very worst enemy) "may you always live in intresting
times!". When ever things seem dull and slow i think about this.
my fist sponcer, **** Timmons (he died some 15 years ago so i don't think anonymity is much of an issue here.) passed that pro-verb on to me.
anyhow  things are kinda holding steady here. spent my mourning at work split between 2 meetimgs. my boss took the whole of july off.
the rest of us little "toads from the basement" have to take turns
filling in for him.understand something here- i'm not exec. material or much of a diplomat. I'm so proud of my self- i didn't
act out nor did i even speak out. i did however catch myself nod-
out.(back on oxy, i have an excuse) My dept. got 4 non linear video edit stations! This took years of meeetings and miles of red
tape. all 4 of these machines share 2 huge drives for storage of
digital video.seems theres a "problem" getting these 4 work stations and one other across campus "talking" to each other at
trir advertised gigabit speed. They spent all this grant money &
matching funds to get every last little option they could.these
mgt. types were amazed that they need to be hooked togather with
aingle mode fiber optic links, "kip-your telling us we have to put fiber optics in? shouldn't that have been included in the purchase
price?) i was asked for a "ball park figure." When I told these
upstairs types it would be $12000 to $15000 they about jumped out
of their skins.Our fearless leader looked real upset when she informed the rest of her"admimistrative assistants that they probably wouldn't get the new office furniture, carpeting, new
drapes, etc.   see thats what were really about-looking good.
Issues of competency are dismissed here, just so long as we look
good.      i guess thats why they call it work.
i'ld forgotten how emotionaly tired work can do ya!
i'l be leaving for my parent's place Sunday am.returning tuesday
of next week. i won't have acess to a networked computer so all
of you will get a little break from my ramblings!
i'll be think about all ya', so be carefl
kip

[Milo]

Hi Kip, you wouldn't *believe* how much I can relate to your comments about your job -- every single thing, except the technological stuff. Once upon a time, I was actually excited to go to work -- now I dread it. I guess things are the same all over, hm?

[Wizard]

Kip, you take good care of yourself and straighten out the situation with your dad. I'll be praying for you. As Milo said I can relate to your work story also. I'm the G.M. of an organization and made the mistake of mentioning that I build my own computers for a hobby. WELLLLLL, now everytime one little glitch goes down on someones P.C. the owner calls me because he's to cheap to pay someone else to straighten it out. Now he even calls me to his home when his wife hides the icons on their desktop and doesn't know how to get them back.I've created a frikken monster. When we were ready to upgrade here at work he wanted me to build them all and I said PASS. It's a hobby not a profession. So being the G.M. I just ordered what I needed and paid someone else to set them up to the tune of $1.5 million contract over the next 5 years. The best payback was I have ALL the passwords in my head and he won't fire me because no oneknows how to operate the whole system but me. Kinda devious but for all the extra freebies they've gotten from me on my own time it was great job security and he loves me! What a hoot!
Well, Good luck again Kip and Godspeed!
Milo my brother, for what it's worth, I've found that I don't dread going to work as much as I used to now that I've been clean. It seems that the things that bothered me the most before that would make me want to use more, aren't such a big deal now. It's actually trivial **** that used to get me nuts. Not anymore!
I've found life much more enjoyable not only at home but at work now that I'm clean. anyway, I just wanted to shout a howdy at you both and now I went on rambling (sorry).
Have a great one Dudes!
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light on us all,
Wiz

[skipper]

whts happening?
last chance  to post till next Tuesday. i know i will miss my
new found forum friends. (read that last sentence out loud, it
sounds like sylvedter the cat-suferin suckotash)
hey wizard: keep all them numbers in your head! When the time comes
make them pay---& pay. i put the first 5000 e-net conection at the
little university of mediocrity. there are now some 9000 and more
to come. can't understand why cisco stock is doing so bad. we've
bought about million $ in switches alone in the last year. I got
me some stuff tucked away in my head that the next poor slob who
gets my job will be scratching his head about (meanwhile the whole
network frozen)
gota get going, the rest of you will have to sail the ship without me!
kip

[jennyfla]

You have yourself a wonderful time on your trip.
Sounds likes you are feeling a little bit better, and don't feel bad about the oxys.  Having had a problem long ago, you still have it stuck in your head that medication is 'bad'.  Do what you need to do for yourself to get through this life as painfree as possible.  Just stick to the dosage, and let yourself heel.  Over time, you will be able to tapper and get rid of them when your pain improves.
Just do what is needed for each day, and look at what is directly in front of your for the timebeing.  A real nice friend told me that once! :)
I understand all that 'big company' **** that you have to deal with.  I worked for AT&T for 6-years, and although a wonderful company, it was amazing to see what was really important to them and what was not.
Good luck, and we will all talk to you when you return!
Be safe!
Lv Jenny

[Milo]

I guess there is **** to deal with in any workplace. I have to remind myself how truly horrendous my last job was, and that helps me put things in perspective. Right now things are going OK at work, actually. There's some **** coming down the pike, but that's nothing new! I will strive to find some way to enjoy what I do once again.
Wiz  & Kip -- storing that info in your heads is great! There's nothing like a little extra job security. :)
Jenny -- I hope life improves for you during this difficult time. Any time you want to talk or just "**** & moan," just let me know! -- Milo

[TheProdigal2]

Sorry, I know this is off topic but I just want to let every one know after many unsuccesfull attempts to post a
     NEW thread to this Forum I have decided to set up one. http://deadserious.planethosting.com/discuss
     Please spread the word. I know we can continue to help and encourage one another.
     If there is a forum topic any one would like covered just let me know.
     Experiences with Oxycontin , Vicodin , etc..

[SHELLIE]

I do not understand some of the advice given as far as using weaker drugs to kick the "bad boys".  Hypothetically speaking, of course, Say you are addicted to a certain pain killer and are with an HMO. You come clean with them that you need help and they suggest that you seek counselling.  (Kicking? Hey you are on your own. You must be nuts, in addition to being a drug addict, if you think we are going to give you a replacement drug!)  Kinda scares you and you begin an endless search, through other peoples medicine cabinets, demeaning yourself by asking friends, maybe even strangers if they have something to help you.  You folks make great suggestions like taking the valium or darvocets, etc. to make your kick bearable, but what is an addict to do?

[DReed]

I have been on Vicodin ES for 3 months to most of you it doesn't seem like a long time... but for it me it's an eternity.  I have severe pain in my stomach due to stomach paralysis and unfortunately due to the fact that so many people have become addicted to the medication, my doctor has decided to let me live with the pain. He told me that he doesn't want to be at fault if I become addicted so I deal with it.  Not that I like it but sometimes there is nothing that you can do! It is severe when I eat (you know the kind where you double over and start throwing up because you hurt so bad!)So for me it's back to not eating so that I won't hurt and I'll lose another 40lbs and with me only weighing 120 now it is really a shame. But atleast I haven't been on it long enough to go through the withdrawls.  I guess if so many people hadn't of become addicted it would be easier for people who need it to get it but now they don't want to prescribe it to anyone. I wish you all the best trying to deal with the withdrawls I just wish that someone had a solution for pain that wasn't addictive that would really control pain and that Doctor's wouldn't be afraid to prescribe.

[Witchywoman]

Hi..
You might get more responses if you post your comment on a thread that is higher up, as I'm not sure many scroll down this far, but I wanted to comment on what you said.

You should be aware that a federal law went into effect this past January, protecting all patients rights to have their pain treated.  For your Doctor to take you off the vicodin if you have a verified medically necessary need for it is completely unethrical, and I'd suggest you find a new doctor if you can.

good luck,
WW

[Angelica]

W.W. is absolutely right.  I could tell you stories.  I've been there and back again.  Fight for your rights.......