Addiction - NEED HELP !!

[radioboy74]

I have become addicted to Pain Medication from Lortab to Vicodin to Percocet.  I WANT OFF !  I have no more pain medication, it's all gone.  How do I become the person I want to be - PAIN MEDICATION DRUGE FREE.  I am dead serious, I need help and don't know what way to turn.  If you've been through this give me your insite.

Thank you & God Bless

[skipper]

raidoboy:
hang on kid, it's just the jones that makes you so jumpy. this way
you feel is the price of a "goodtime!" your first 3 days will be
awful' but it levels off after that. snoop around all the past
posting for Thomas's detox  recepe. also pill poppa has got a good
zink, magnesium,manganese mix that can make a world of difference
in what is going to happen to you! 3 things to remember:
1) your not alone
2)your are walking a path worn smooth by the feet of a multitude
of junkys who've come before you.
3) there will be many people on this forum who will come forth with
knowledge & faith to help you!
I promise these things will come, and soon!
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Milo]

Hey radioboy, I know you're facing a tough battle, but *it can be done!* There are plenty of success stories here, which I'm sure you've read. I don't have "the answer" but want you to know I'm here to support and encourage you however I can. If you're out of meds, I suggest starting Thomas' detox recipe (printed further down somewhere) and if you have a sympathetic doctor, maybe asking for help in tapering down/relieving withdrawal symptoms. At the very least you don't have to go through it alone, so let us help you any way we can. -- Sincerely, Milo

[cindi]

I'm with Milo and skipper...the detox recipe...you can get through this....hang on a minute at a time.....keep coming here and in a few days this will all be over  then the hard part begins...staying clean.......love to all   cin

[Thomas]

It sounds like this is your first attempt at quitting. Is that right?

Yes, my recipe makes it easier to get through the first few days and helps you restore a lot of substances in your brain that have been depleted by the pain pills. That will put you on your feet. All the ingrediants are over the counter except for the valium-family drug which as we all know is usually a ***** to just walk in and get unless you've got a solid relationship with an MD.

If you want it and can't find it, I'll post it or e-mail it directly to you. But if it is your first time, I wonder if it wouldn't be better if you got medically detoxed - preferably in an in-house setting where they can evaluate you, test your blood, liver etc. -- long-time use of these substances can take a toll.

Do you have access to this kind of medical help? If it's you're first time seriously detoxing and you're doing it cold turkey, it's going to be rough. The only savng grace about opiate withdrawal is that, even though you might wish you were dead, you won't die from the experience.

I suggest professional help if available, but I will post my recipe if you want to go that way.

I've been a drug addict for 30 years, so, obviously, I don't have too many words of wisdom for you about living a sober life. But others on this board do. I could "mouth" all the recovery concepts and jargon in the book, but I would be a fraud.

Let me know about the recipe if you want it and can't find it. If you want to e-mail me, you can at

***@****

Thomas

[Milo]

Hey Thomas, it's been a while since we've talked, but I was happy to see you recently mention me as one of the folks on the forum who had had helped you out. How are you doing these days? I'm really glad to hear you're not living in fear/danger of those seizures anymore. Saw that recent obnoxious post by Danielwhatshisname and wanted to echo my words of complete support & respect for you like all the others did. Anyway, let me know how things are going, here or at ***@****
Your forum friend, Milo

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I agree with Thomas' advice about medically supervised detox if it's your first time.  That's how I did it.

I'm in the middle of detoxing myself at home right now and it's day 5.  But I've been through this many times during the last thirty years.  Nowadays, I can get myself prepared ahead of time and pretty much know what to expect as far as withdrawals.  Lucky me,eh?  My biggest problem started about Monday with a whole lot of anxiety and feeling chilly(tingling).  Luckily I have Xanax for that.  Insomnia is another problem but I don't fret over it anymore.  I just get out of bed and work crossword puzzles and have a beer(just one)until my mind is at ease.

I've been using Vics and Perks for almost a year and in ever greater numbers.  After 5 days without them, I feel better than I have in a long time.  The problem is that I feel like something is missing and the craving sets in. That's when you have to fight one minute at a time until you can get focused on something other than killing the urge.

Like Skid said, millions have preceded you and made it.  J.B.



















Like Skip said, millions have preceded you and made it.  J.B.

[Paisley]

Im not sure I put this question under the right heading but Im new to this whole forum thing.  I work at a ua lab and have some questions that an empolyer is asking me. Im doing some reasearch on oxycontin and found this site. Any help will be appreciated.  This certian employer is in the construction business and one of his employees came up positive for a drug called oxycontin and the employee said he had a perscription for this drug. I am wondering what this drug does to your body, and if it is safe to operate machanery and or drive while on this drug. Again, any help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you all and God Bless
Paisley

[Francoise]

I couldn't agree more that you should get on Thomas' recipe asap. Additionally, get your doctor to get you some Klonopin, but get it prescribed by its generic name. Much cheaper. One-half a milligram changed me from a nail-biting, trembling, anxiety-ridden sack of fear to a calm, collected, fairly normal guy.

I had some situational traffic going recently and went to a psychiatrist I'd never seen before in my life. And he's the guy who prescribed the Klonopin. Now that my landing gear has just cleared the trees, I'm down to a quarter of a milligram of Klonopin and will drop off completely soon.

But the advice you've been given by the others: get professional help; do this as an inpatient; do the Thomas recipe thing - the rest: do it. It's excellent advice given by people who've been there. And in some cases, by people who are still there.

Strike while the iron is hot.

Francois

[big A]

Hey, oxycontin is a very strong pain releiver, in most people it gives you a get up and go mood,in others like my wife,it puts them to sleep..If this guy is using the oxy's,before long he will start missing work due to not having enough, (especially if he is using it in any other way than prescribed, ie: snorting, injecting, etc:)I personally was Snorting 6 80mgs tabs a day, by the end of it i was doing that just to be, and feel normal. back to your question: I'm sure that it affected my job performance, but i never had a major accident or problem while on them. It basically made me feel as though i could work all day, and all night, I hope this has helped you some. I look at this board every single day. I feel for everyone here like they are my brother and sister, GOD BLESS

[cindi]

Big A hit it right on the money....some people are knocked out by it and others can function really well on it.....it is a great pain reliever if taken properly....as with alot of different medication a person should refrain from operating machinery or driving a car until they find out what effects the med is going to have on them...I can fly on oxys while they put my friend to sleep for 2 days....she can't even stand up alone.....same with vicodin ....i did notice though that alot of addicts will say that these meds that ususally knock others out have the opposite affect in them...i wonder what that's all about...have a great one....love to all    cin

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

When I was in the hospital recently, I was dosed with morphine for the first two days.  It was all the nurses could do to keep me in bed and off of my feet!  I actually got into the shower room at 2am and fell while bathing.  It's like speed to me.

I was put on another pain med called Demerol and slept for two days.  I'm at a loss, too.  Vicodin relieves my pain but sedates me.  Percoset is more intense but is more like Vicodin in effect.

I believe that all these opiods that are synthetic compounds are not good for the body.  Look at methadone which is totally synthetic and so hard to detox from....takes months.  There is nothing in the human body that can relate to some of these chemicals.  It's just a theory of mine so take it for what it's worth.  J.B.

[cindi]

see how everyone is different...Morphine did absolutely nothing for me while my drug of choice was demerol which did in fact make me speed...same with the vics and percs...and since i had been such a speed freak at one time....amphetamines were just a great as the opiates...i loved the demerol for that reason...however, it was very very hard to get off,,and my tolerance was so high I was shooting sometimes 600 to 800 mgs at a time...mixing it with about 100 of nembutal not by that time i was practically in a coma for 12 hours   I giess it has to do with our body chemistry..thanks for your opinion....which is always appreciated.....love to all    cin

[Thomas]

what's all this I hear? They're ALL good! Anyone out there with narcotics they don't like, I'll give you a P.O. BOX ... LOL. JB, if you can get the demerol injection without the goddamn vistaril (some obnoxious antihistimine so you won't barf),you'll get a very cool demerol high. Ah demerol, the king of beers! But just a fond memory. Good thing I could only get it for a little while ...

Milo, thanks for thinking of me ... and thanks for your words of wisdom in the past. I'm on and off of valium and hydro as I run in and run out ... same ole Thomas. Somethings never change. But the valium is definately less of a seizure risk to detox off of than Xanax (the lil' drug from hell). How are you these days? I'd say more about me, but it's all been said. My mind is still in the 70's and drugs are still number one. I know it's wrong. But it's what I am. What can I do?

Thomas

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

For some reason, I was given Talwin and Visteral(sp)IM and went into serious convulsions.  I remember being put on oxygen and being given a pill under my tongue which helped immediately. The ward RN called my wife to come ASAP. When she arrived, she was told that I was completely out of it.  I'm still wondering what all this was about.  Then again, I was in the VA hospital here where they treat you like some kind of human guinea pig.  They tend to use the "shotgun" approach to any kind of illness.  Kind of like some mechanics I've had to deal with when my car has problems....let's just replace everything and maybe we'll cure the problem type of mentality.  Well, I still made it in spite of all this!  Morphine, Demerol, Talwin, Visteral in eleven days time and all the while the MD's couldn't understand why I was in so much pain.  After all, I was just dieing from a major illness.  Makes you wonder, doesn't it? All I needed was for Dr. Steve to show up and give one of his canned pep talks!  J.B.

[cindi]

WOW   maybe you had a serious reaction to the Talwin  had you ever had Talwin before?  i would think so if you were around in the 60's and 70'''''''''''s right?  seriously  I was little in the 60's but several of my friends that were using in that time frame used talwin and this stuff called Numorphine?    anyway,,I had never even given any patients talwin and vistaril together.....i do know that not only will the vistaril help with nausea but it is said to potentiate the action of the other main narcotic ususally being demerol.. of course i preferred the demerol undiluted thank you very much.....i had been clean from this bad demerol habit for about 6 years when i had my son and was given demerol..told the hospital I was allergic to vistaril....and they were pretty stingy with the dose..hell,,,50 mgs?  puhleeze...any way I was lucky to get that i suppose.....first I was given it IM then that stupid PCA pump  the patient controlled analgesia pump,,,pissed me right off,,i'd rather have the full effect all at once.....not with this thing....i always thought of it as being a Godsend when i was working but not for me....anyway,,demerol is a faded memory  do they even use it that much anymore?  haven't worked in that profession for 6 years...many if I did,,,,I would be gone.....I just have absolutely no trust in myself when it comes to that.....i am much safer where I am right now....sans the demerol, dilauded and the DEA.....love you all    cin

[Milo]

Speaking of paradoxical reactions...A while back during a routine office visit, my Dr. asked if I needed a refill of Fioricet. Well, what was ole Milo to say? I've never had a particularly strong will...Well, it did little to nothing for me. I thought, I'm free!/dammit at the same time. Well, my latest Rx for it has knocked me for the customary loop. Weird, huh? I'm trying to be careful re  dosage of barbiturate and esp. acetaminophen, but I'll just come right out & say I'm using it to numb/try to forget avout some big time emotional pain right now. I'm trying to go the "legitimate" route as well (Psychologist, etc.) but right now I feel like the emotional equivalent of a train wreck victim.
Thank you for being here & being nonjudgmental. God knows I've had my share of that in my life. Cindi, it sounds like your DEA fears are over, and if so, I'm very happy for you. This train wreck victim is heading for the triage station even as we speak.  -- All best, Milo

[Milo]

You'd think something like Fioricet would knoeck me on my ass or at least leave me on the drowsy side, and most of the time it does. But sometimes it has that opposite, "speedy" effect some of you were mentioning. I've done more work on a day's dosage of Fioricet than I normally would in a month! Weird, huh? Anyone have any theories as to why we should experience this? My only theory is that our downer of choice, opiate, barbiturate, benzo, whatever, temporarily frees us from the overwhelming anxiety that normally keeps us out of action. Maybe that's why someone somewhere referred to Ultram as a treatment for depression. -- random thoughts, Milo

[Thomas]

good to hear from you ... the butalbutal in fiorecet is somewhat unique among barbiturates. It's primary effect is as an anti-anxiety agent, rather than as a sleep agent. It probably effects you more now because you're not on the narcs. I would still treat it as a barbiturate and not mix it with stuff like alcohol, but I expect you know that.

Thomas

[Thomas]

Hey JB,

Read about your Talwin experience -- bad stuff for opiate users! Talwin is a partial narcotic antagonist and can induce withdrawal symptoms in people habituated to real opiates. I learned that the hard way, as well. Stay away from it. There's nothing to recommend it anyway. They probably put a morphine sublingual tab under your tongue.

Thomas

[Frank Lee]

Hey Milo,

I too am going the Psychologist and md route. I too self medicate to avoid dealing with emotions (I feel like I'm about to hear a course of HI FRANK, WE'RE ALL ****** UP TOO). It is interesting at this point all - the therapy is centered around getting me of ethanol, Valium, hydros etc. While I would like to talk a little about Mom and Dad thank you. My theory is that the drugs are a symptom not the disease, but all in good time the docs say. Anyway, along the way I injured my back, made it 49 years and developed a love of the interaction of the above substances which has unfortunately put a real kink in relating to the wife and kids, not too mention work and friends. So I'm up to my neck too, pal.

Will keep in touch,

FLEE

[Milo]

That comment about Fioricet makes sense to me...Don't worry, I don't even *think* of mixing alcohol with it due to the acetaminophen content. I never was a big opiate user -- I would have been, but they just don't "do it" for me (I guess I'm lucky.) Why does every decent antianxiety med have to be addictive? On nanother topic, you mentioned those "weird SSRI's" or something like that in another post. I'm doing OK on Celexa, but seriously wonder if Paxil was the cause (or part of the cause) for my several years in hell.

[Milo]

Yep, I'm right with you there, my friend. Case in point: Had a very "meaty" session with my therapist yesterday. I mean, really dragged out some heavy **** I thought I'd never be able to discuss. So far, so good, right? Well, later that evening events occurred that made me feel like whatever is lower than ****. I'm sure Dr. X will be able to help me put it in perspective next week, but right now I want to be numb, forget, not feel lower than ****. Right now I'll take any med I can get my hands on, provided they don't pose a risk to life & health. Is this so bad? Is it not a natural human response? Enough said, I guess. Let me know how you're doing, & please feel free to contact me any time
***@****
--sincerely, Milo

[skipper]

hello good people:
will go into more detail later....i'm wd/detoxing off 120 mg/day
oxy-c! i did some really stupid things, hurt my wife (emotioonally)

oxy-c relieves pain. But it also cranks me up in to something like
a jabbering speed freak. when this happens it's my poor wife who
has to suffer me.

i don't know about the rest of you... but right now i think the
only things that would "fix me" would be a grain and half of
GOM (mophine sulfate), or maybe black tar heroin.

I'm so disgustaded with myself! i'm really fed uo with my inablity
to make sound decision.

sick of being a junkie/sick of physical pain
kip

[Milo]

I hear ya, Kip -- I understand your concern for your wife, and I also understand your desire for something to *get rid of the pain* (Physical & emotional). A friend asked me yesteday if I'd ever tried heroin (joking.) I said, "No, but if someone offered it, I'd sure as hell take it!" I guess that makes me a bad person in some people's eyes. Oh well, **** it.
Keep that angel on your shoulder, my friend -- Milo

[cindi]

I am very concerned for you,,,,for so long,,,ever since you have started posting here and we have been talking off the forum you, Thomas and JB have been my pillar of strength.....there are times I fail to look at you as a human, an addict struggling just like me and the rest of us....I have come to love you and want you to know that you will see this through and I will do what I can to help you....I do know your wife and I know she is concerned yet she is also strong and the two of you together have been through this before....and you will get through it again.....you said it in another post it is what happens after the drugs....(or something like that)  now,  have to ask you a favor,,,,take all the advice you have given to me and everyone else here, all the words of wisdom and the guidance you have shown us,,and light your own path with it....and reember you are human and there is light,,,you wife loves you and this my friend I know.....there is no doubt in my mind about that, and you guys will be ok,,,,she will be ok and so will skipper...one day at  time       Love you both    ...now, anymore talk of black tar yada yada yada   I will hop the next plane out and give YOU the talkin too...

[cindi]

JB,,,Yeah    i completely forgot about the antagonistic effects of the Talwin...duhhhhhhhhhh   thomas is right  and probably it was a morphine SL under your toungue.....to counter the talwin?  right Thomas?  to put some opiates back in your system  or are these docs too cruel to do that....sometimes i think they just won't do that to see us suffer....well, I guess we have all admitted why we use what we use....hydro, fioricet, valium etc....no beating around the bush with us...sure we have the chronic pain..so chronic pain is half of it  the rest of it is the emotional ****.....the **** we live with and the **** I have to learn to deal with....adn to be honest with you I thought I had dealt with my "stuff" but i guess not...as the more i feel the pain in my back and my entire body the more drugs i stuff into myself until eventually i feel nothing at times...I DON"T want to feel,,,I don;t want to see my past, i don't want to deal with pain, grief and any other unpleasant feeling that life throws my way......so,,,there's honesty....we can all help each other   there has to be a way we can get past all of this,,I am hurting, physically, emotionally,  yesterday a very old dear friend of mine puta towel over his head and blew his brains out.....rather than deal with his emptional pain..drug addiction where he saw no way out.....PLEASE PROMISE ME GUYS,,,, each and everyone of you MILO, FLEE, SKIPPER, AND THE REST OF YOU......PLEASE PLEASE PROMISE ME THAT THIS IS NOT THE ANSWER FOR ANY OF YOU   I live in fear that one day i will come here and read some awful news about someone.....I am concerned for all of you as well...i guess with the recent events our thoughs have turned more to what will happen to all of us...but our problems and our addiction is a thing we can deal with.....we have to....i love you all   cin

[Frank Lee]

Cindi - I am so sorry for your loss and for your friend. I bet he had something to offer that was being chased by the dragon. I wish you peace during this time and know you will persevere.

As for me, we'll I've never been suicidal, just a junkie. So, you'll probably have me to kick around for a while. This board gives me support, simply by reading honest posts such as yours.

Take care,

Frankie Lee

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

You are soo right on the money as usual!  I got up this morning and almost fell down the stairs due to my pain.  I figured what the hell, can anything get better for me.  I checked my blood sugar and it was 357 and my ears were ringing.  Just felt like hell in general and didn't know why.  Yep, I popped three Vicodin after having been clean for a week.  So am I some kind of fiend?  Then again I could have put a gun to my head.  Sure, there have been times when I've felt this way.  Just pull the trigger and it's all over!  I for one could never do it because I'm too big a coward.  I just keep thinking, wait this out and see what happens next.  After all life is not all bad nor is it all good.  Lay your life out and look at it.  Praise yourself for all the good you've done!  J.B.

[radioboy74]

Thomas,

I know Valium is a hard thing to come by, however, I am on a Benzo (Xanax) so if that can make for a subsitiution please email the Detox Recipe.  ***@****  
Thank you all for your Help.

[cindi]

I think this is the most honest that I have been in quite awhile....I can't pretend nor do I want to pretend....i too felt like hell when i got up..my back was breaking in half,,,,my hands were all swelled up, i have a bad burn on my arm that is now infected...(is that a reason to pop more vics?)  I am in  agreat deal of pain every day....and yes I do need the medication to function but even if I didn't have that amount of pain I would find pain...cramps, headache, anything....and yes,,many years ago when I was into the demerol and dilauded etc. i really thought there was no way out....i felt i was destined to grow old with a needle hanging out of my arm....many times a gun sounded good,,,to end the misery....but like you I am a coward....i want to see my kids grow up and grow old with my husband but the pain now,,,,to look at me you would think I have no pain at times,,,,except now i can feel how my back is growing crooked or something weird....I told Thomas that i laid in bed the other night and practically hyperventilated thinking about death,,my death..how, when, where,,,until i was sobbing...of course then my thoughts turn to an afterlife...I have got to believe that there is an afterlife...my husband tries to help me....i don't think he thinks about stuff like that...he told me he believes there is an afterlife....there has to be more than this.....i truly want to believe this and up until my mom died i had all the faith in the world...now i fear it is gone..but everyone has told me that it is not gone,,just shadowed by pain and grief....I think that the recent events in this Country have caused alot of us to reexamine our lives,,,begin to think about our own fate...Thomas told me alot of incredible things to think about,,,so have you...all of you..sometimes I feel like such a big baby....and I thank you all for listening to me and putting up with my moods over the past 9 months....my favorite line....My life has ben a tapestry of rich and royal hue, an everlasting vision of an everchanging view,,,a woindrous woven magic in bits of blue and gold, a tapestry to feel and see impossible to hold....Carol King.....God bless us all                        love cin

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Hang on a while, better days are coming!  When I was about 19, thirty two of my friends were killed one night during a mortar attack.  I remember running, running and running in disbelief.  Why me?  In the end, my biggest problem was in trying to figure out how I was going to go on without them in my life.  We depended so much on eachother.  Why was I saved?

When I watched all of those firemen running into that terrible inferno so bravely, I sobbed because it aroused a memory in me that I've been trying to rid myself of for so many years.  Like us way back when, they so galantly went into the jaws of death!

Though we are scarred for life by a terrible battle, we have survived.  Why?  I think you know the answer, Cindi.  Keep your chin up for me.  J.B.

[Thomas]

radioboy,

Yes, the Xanax will sub for Valium for this purpose. Be careful with the Xanax, however. If you've been on it for a long time, say, several times daily for several months, you will have to taper off the Xanax or switch to Valium and taper to be safe from the potentially horrible consequences of Xanax withdrawal. That said, please find attached a Word doc of my opiate recipe. Please note that it is a recipe to detox from opiate pain killers, not from Xanax. Good luck. If you add determination and a little self-belief to this recipe, it will enable you to get off the opiates. Whatever you do, don't let this addiction shame you. Shame is the great crippler and killer. You're just a normal human being who fell into a very common chemical trap. Write me here anytime. Feel better!

P.S. I sent this to you from my hotmail address. Let me know if the attachment didn't make it. I sent it twice, once by mistake without the attachment. The other should be fine.

Thomas

[Thomas]

meant this for you ....
radioboy,

    Yes, the Xanax will sub for Valium for this purpose. Be careful with the Xanax, however. If you've been
    on it for a long time, say, several times daily for several months, you will have to taper off the Xanax or
    switch to Valium and taper to be safe from the potentially horrible consequences of Xanax withdrawal.
    That said, please find attached a Word doc of my opiate recipe. Please note that it is a recipe to detox
    from opiate pain killers, not from Xanax. Good luck. If you add determination and a little self-belief to this
    recipe, it will enable you to get off the opiates. Whatever you do, don't let this addiction shame you.
    Shame is the great crippler and killer. You're just a normal human being who fell into a very common
    chemical trap. Write me here anytime. Feel better!

    P.S. I sent this to you from my hotmail address. Let me know if the attachment didn't make it. I sent it
    twice, once by mistake without the attachment. The other should be fine.

    Thomas

[Milo]

One less thing you have to worry about -- I've seen the toll my dad's illness has taken on my mother ...not to mention the unbearable pain of the terrorism victims' families...and I know I could *never* inflict that kind of pain on my parents via suicide, absolutely no way. Also I have a best friend (like a sibling but closer) who's my age & will probably live as long as I do, into old age -- so there's no way I could cause him that kind of pain either. So you're stuck with me until I'm old and decrepit. (Wait -- I'm already decrepit -- never mind.) I truly console you for your loss and assure you that you don't have to worry about hearing such news about me. (I know how you worry :).) Bless your heart -- Milo

[cindi]

Thank you,,,,ya know,,,since I started coming here you and Thomas have been my light....through all the bad times I go through I look to you guys for guidance and widsom,,you give me the strength to go on and set my mind to doing what I need to do...you guys have been through more in life and have the courage to face your deepest fears and look them straight in the eyes....Jesus!!!  a Mortar attack,,,,Jb, I'm hanging on for you my friend,  you and Thomas,,,,and yes,,,My chin is up for you....love  cin

[susanlea]

Hey, right now I need your guidance and wisdom.  Right now I miss Wiz so much.  I could call or email him, but he has been doing so well, I feel like I am a burden right now.  I havent' been down for soo long.  I have missed my ex (the addict, lier, cheat and manipulator) all day today. You know I have been trying to get him to come get his things, so I can have some closure. It's alittle over 6 months now, and never would have made it without all you guys. Thomas, Milo and Francios have beent there all the way as has you.  I can't understand why I feel like I do today.  He was so mean and hateful to me and the kids the last year.  I did talk to him last week and he was nice and said he wanted to get together this weekend and talk,  so far now word.  I did try calling his cell phone but no answer.  The big game was on, and knowing him he's glued to the tv and zoned out.  Mom and dad must be doing a good job of taking care of him.  He has caller ID so he will know I called.  Sometimes I still can't believe he chose the pills over our 5 year relationship. I am angry, my boys miss him and he has never even called them.  No cards no phone calls and he lives 10 minutes away.  I guess I am just feeling sorry for myself right now.  I keep thinking things have changed that he might be clean.  His Dr's nurse told me he was cut off of methadone and oxy's about a month ago.  He told me he was clean over 4 months ago but I found out that was a lie. My therapist says he doesn't want me to find out how bad off he really is, that he's probably still using and stronger stuff.  He had a 80mg methadone and 240mg of oxy addiction aday.  So I am sure without a program or detox the chances are slim he is ok.  Thanks Cindi, I am dowm today but still fighting to get over all this pain.  Funny, that no matter how old we are, we still can't control our pain.

[Thomas]

Sorry to hear about your friend. That must be a terrible thing to reconcile. As far as doing myself-in goes, I won't if you won't. Besides, I have always believed that as long as you're alive, there is hope of redemption, whether that's what you want or not. Death, at least as far as this life goes, must then be the absence of hope.

Thomas

[cindi]

Ok  I won't Thomas    so neither will you...your views are very interesting and make an awful lot of sense....sometimes when we can't see straight it helps to surround yourself with people like you that keep my head glued onto my shoulders...LOL  Lea,,,,it takes a long time to heal the wounds of a love...Susan,  I can't tell you what to do sweetie,,,I can tell you this  Lea,,,you have suffered enough at the hands of this man....he has dragged you down..dragged your boys down..hurt them...hurt you....do you have good times to remember?  how many times can you count the laughter, the true love and intimacy the sharing and giving of yourself and he to you?  has there ever been any of that?  do the bad times outweigh the good?  sit down and look at the pros and cons of this relationship...many times I have todl you that you deserve so much more so do your kids....why live in misery?  and whenever you gave him a second and 3rd and 4th chance you came back to us broken hearted and angry with yourself....a vicious circle....over and over again...you have got to break the circle..stop it now....6 months   susan you have come so far......keep on going.....I had a relationship that was terrible...5 years....what a mess....i ended up in treatment and he had no clue i was even using drugs...what a great relationship we had...he'd come to my house,,,watch a movie have sex and leave.....no real caring nothing...i was worth sex, and that was it..i was a fishing buddy...it took treatment for me to realize i deserved more than that....i met my husband and for the first time in m life I realized what love is....no conditions....real honest to God love...and I was not looking for it,,it fell into my lap...and this can and will happen for you but you have got to make yourself open for the possiblity....I'm sure you care about this man, it is impossible to turn real feelings off this a faucet but,,,,in time you will begin to realize you deserve real love, a real relationship...am I making sense..?  I hope I've helped you in someway..you remind me too much of me...we go for trouble...i used to find the worse possible men for me..until I met Doug...the sex is really love,,,,the kissing and hugging are real,,,the unconditional love, no insecurities, complete and utter trust between the two of us...do you trust Mike?  no....think about this susan..My thoughts and prayers are with you.....you know I love you and will help anyway i can......love cin

[cindi]

If it's any consolation i never really did end my rrlationship with ******* before i married doug  LOL  I just told him one day i was getting married.....and his world di not come to an end...he was this sicko that vowed to care for his mom and sister after his divorce..he lived with htem and at his age of 40 had to be home at 11 or his sister would *****  I could go on and on but i'll spare the details..to this day i think he was doing his sister more than he was doing me  LOL       hang in there it will get better

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Boy, you're certainly getting a lot of attention today!  We don't mind a bit sharing with you.  All of us have dreadful thoughts at times.  At least our help is free.

Thomas said that death means no hope.  True enough, Thomas. Cindi, Cindi, you are going to be just fine.  That's my hope for you.  You are going to be just fine!  Trust us.  I could sit here and bore you with all the setbacks in my own life but it's water under the bridge.  Life is a flowing thing and so is the hope that all can get better.  When your strength is ebbing and all seems so insurmountable, lean my way. I'll bouy you up and thereby gain strength myself in doing so.  Hope is us togehter!  J.B.

[skipper]

good people:
i must be nuts. friday night i flushed 84 0xy-c down the toilet.
Thomas don't kill me until i expain, then please do. i have be
taking 2 20mg oxy-c 3 times a day. i've been as close to pain
free as i can ever remember. i've also turned into a jabbering
overly "busy" zipper head. for god's sake it's suppose to be an
opiate, it seems to work me more like desoxyn (d-methamphet.)

what can i say... i felt my wife would leave or the oxy would. i
chose the oxy to go...flush,flush. come to find out, she wasn't
handing me an ultimatem, she was just concerned. sometimes the
"idiot kip" takes the helm and runs the ship up a sandbar.

maybe 2 weeks without will do me some good. only wd i seem to have
had was sweating and dizzy spells, but OH BOY DOES MY NECK HURT!

need you all
keep an angel (not an idiot) on your shoulder!
kip

[cindi]

I know her,,,and I do know she is concerned...she loves you skipper  very much....good for you,,if the oxy's were making her nervous and you realized what they are doing to you and possibly your mariage then my friend you did the right thing....aren't you going to see a pain specialist?  skip  I don't have to tell you what's right and wrong,,you already know...we're here for you skipper....hang in there  both of you    and no you are not an idiot......love you both   cin

[skipper]

cindi:
forgive me, in my last post i ment to offer consolation at the
tragic and sensless loss of a friend. words fall like tears into
dusty gardens, where they quickly dry leaveing only the dust.....
the dust blows away...  keep the best and dearest parts of your
depated friend in mind and heart and he will never die completely.
also dear friend, keep the gardens in your heart and mind well
tended.....this may be the reasion you were spared!

[Milo]

I want you to hang in there during this oxy-free time. You've done it before, so I know you can do it again. Your words to Cindi were poetic. I'm looking for that angel even as we speak -- Little Milo

[Frank Lee]

Hang in there kip, we'll all keep an angel on our shoulder for you. BTW I would have been glad to keep the oxys for you, aghhhh, to think the public sewer is that high right now :---).

Seriously, you did the right thing. You made a choice between your wife and your drug habit. Keep talking, walking and healing,

FLEE

[susanlea]

Thanks for the kick in the butt.  I don't know what was wrong with me yesterday, maybe the full moon?  I did try you at home last night, twice.  But you were on line, and my cell phone (free long distance) wouldn't stay on.  I will try you tonight after 9.  Re:Mike, he called this morning, said he left his phone and pager at work, that no one ever calls him anyway.  He was ok, always sounds down. Said he doesn't know how he feels about anything, and that he just is exsisting.  Then he called back and said he misdialed.  I ask if he wanted to talk, and he said he wanted to think about it.  He will reach and then withdraw.  It's almost like he wants me to do all the work, just like always.  I am better today.  I talked with my sponser and am going to a meeting tonight (NA).  I have to take it one day at a time.  I had forgotten how hard it was to communicate with him, how he shuts him self off.  He never shows his feelings, can't laugh, can't cry.  Just there.  Any advice would be appreciated.  I don't even know why it's bothering me now.  He was so withdrawn emotionally.  He couldn't and wouldn't want affection, or sex because of the methadone and oxy's.  I know in my heart he is still using.  I doubt seriously he is clean in 2 months.  Oh well, this too shall pass.  Thanks for everything guys, I love you all.  I guess loving an addict is almost as hard as being one.     Susan

[jennyfla]

I've gotta run to lunch to go transfer this boat title, but wanted to quickly say:
Susan, hang in there, be strong for you and your boys.  You're doing the right thing by keeping my ex away; you are just feeling loney and vunerable right now.  Please call me ANYTIME, i mean that!!!!
Cindi, I'm sorry you have been so down lately, hang in there girlie, and you too, call me ANYTIME!!!!  I will call you back on the cell if it's after 8 pm; please take me up on it if you need to talk! :)
Kip, Wow, i admire your strength, flushing your oxys.  I'm sorry you are hurting (your neck) so much!  Take care of yourself, and good luck, i know you know what is best for you! :)
Lv Jenny

[susanlea]

I went to my Dr today.  Crying the blues.  He ran a blood test and some other tests.  Well, he called me later in the day and starting giving me a hard time,  asked me when and why I stopped taking my Effexor (antidepressent/OCD drug)  I told him that I haven't taken it for about 1 month or so.  Well I got the lecture that you just can't stop, and that my hormones and seratonin levels are so low that he's surprised that I can even go to work.  I did this before and forgot.  When I start feeling ok I forget to take it, and BAM! I go right back there.....I went to a meeting tonight, and then to a support group.  I am telling you when I slide back it all comes back to bite me in the ass.  I know Mike is hopeless, living with his parents, going to work (barely), hardly see's his kids, can't even get a county sticker for the van.  I forget his addiction, because he is not here.  I believe nothing has changed, he just got better at it and able to hold off or deal with the withdrawals.  I bet he is buying on the street.  How can a man almost 40 live that way?  I really thought he would try to get it together but I am wrong I guess.  He has no ambition, his hair is so long and stringy almost to his waist.  He looks so unkempt, dirty and greasy looking.  What happened to him?  He didn't look that bad when he was here.  Or am I just looking through a different set of glasses?  He looks awful, his skin is all broken out and looks so unhealthy.  He could have had it all, we had everything except his attention.  Oxy's are more appealing than me.  I will move on, but I wonder if he will ever regret all this.  Hey Milo, Thomas, JB all you guys out there.  What makes a man want pills more than a loving woman, family, home, a real life.  Why would he just walk away?  Detox wasn't that hard  on him, he went in for 5 days got clean, and back again to the pills.  I have to give up.  He has completely shut me and the boys out.  He almost acts like he hates me, than turns around and says he doesn't.  Well he has kept away, not even tried.  Will he ever?

[susanlea]

sorry Jen, email me again with your number.  I had it in my cell phone but it got deleted.  ***@****. Anyone want to give me a hard time and knock some sense in me would be greatly appreciated.   Love Susan

[katie r]

I'm not a man but I left my husband for a couple reasons...one was my addiction....but it was all conneted. I got us into alot of credit card debt because of my habit...he still doesn't know about that but I was having a hard time living there and knowing that he thought we had money..and we didn't!
Another reason was the times I was out of pills...I couldn't function. My hubby was from the south (and I don't mean to say that all men from the south are this way) but he was a real mommie's boy. His mother never worked so when him, his sis and father came home there was a hot meal and the house was spotless and she even ironed the sheets and their pj's. Well...I wasn't that kind of wife. I had a job...and a drug habit so he was lucky to get a grilled cheese for dinner. He would get furious when I didn't get up and fix eggs and bacon for breakfast. Hell....somedays I was doing good to get up and stagger to the bathroom! Then about 2 years ago my doctor put me on zoloft...and we all know the effect that can have on a sex drive. So that was another battle. All of this was brought on by my addiction....so if I had gotten clean my marriage would have probably survived....but I decided to stay with the drugs and leave him. My love of pain killers is deep. You would never believe the things I've done to get ahold of them.
BUT! on another note...we had no kids. If we had....I like to think I would have stayed and made it work.
Anyway...like I said...I'm not a man but this is just my input...for what it's worth.

[liz36]

I also need help badly.  I'm addicted to codeine and I don't know how to stop, I've been taking it a little over a month now and am so scared.  I can't tell my family, so I need to detox myself.  Can anybody tell me how to do this.  I would really like to know what Thomas Detox formula is.  Could someone send it to me?  My address is ***@****      PLEASE HELP ME

[cindi]

tHOMAS'S DETOX RECIPE IS AT THE VERY BOTTOM OF THE PAGE..THE LAST THREAD I BELIEVE,,REMEMBER, WE ARE ALL HERE TO HELP YOU, KEEP COMING BACK AND KEEP US POSTED   GOOD LICK  CINDI

[liz36]

Hi everyone,  I'm trying to taper off of codeine and I need help.  Please someone tell me how to do this.  You can email me at  ***@****  and I can give you details of what I have and my usage.  I can't go to a detox facility due to circumstances.  I'm waiting anxiously for some help.  Please.  I can't do this alone.   Liz

[cindi]

Email me at ***@****    let me know what is going on with you if yiu are ok with it,i have to get to soccer practice so hopefully i'll get a chance to get on later   love cin

[liz36]

Thanks Cindy, I'll look for that now.  Oh my God I'm sitting here nauseaus with fear, I hope I can taper off this stuff.  I'm really really scared.

[susanlea]

thanks for the response.  I know that I will eventually get over all this.  My ex didn't have to do a thing.. I owned the house, cars etc.  I did all the cooking, shopping, cleaning, paid all the bills, washed all the clothes.  All he did was avoid us.  He would hide in another room, watch tv and sleep.  He never wanted to talk, go out, nothing.  He didn't want to have sex, kiss or cuddle.  I lived this way for 2 years.  I tried everything I could to help him. Finally in Mid March I walked upstairs,he was zoned out on the bed. I said he either had to get help or leave that I couldn't live this way.  It was raining hard, he got up, threw abunch of clothes in a bag and walked out.  That was it, the end.  He moved in with his mom and dad, and they take care of him now.  I will hear every so often from him, but there's nothing to say.  I don't know if he's stopped using, but with his addiction at over 260mg's aday I kind of doubt it.  I don't believe anything has really changed for him since he left.  I could be wrong.  He never came and got all his things, I still have his furniture, his dogs, his kids photo's, I guess it is not important to him.  At 38 I am sure his parent's will eventually get tired of having him lay around their house. Who knows.  He left me greatly in debt, I signed one car over to him,  I am finally out from under it all but I have had to struggle.  Things here have improved dramatically so I must have made the right choice.  I don't know what the pills will do to him in the long run.  I know he has lost alot of hair, and he looks alittle yellow.  He used to be in great shape, now he's all flabby, his face is broken out in cysts, it's awful. His hair is so long and stringy.  When will he grow up?

[Wiseone111]

Hi there everyone. I have been reading these messages for aboutthe last two months. And I finally took the leap and I am in the process of getting off of Lortab(Hydrocodone) addiction.
It has been almost a week sinve my last full day on the pills. A week ago today i was taking 6-8 pills a day sometimes more. The wednesday following that i broke down and took 1-1/2. Since wednesday I have not taken anything except the vitamins, vallium, and stuff listed in Thomas' recipe. My question is this.
How long does it take for the weird feeling in my stomach and the cold sweats to go away. I really feel like i am almost over the hump here. Would just be nice to havean indication of about how long i hace left.

thanks,
-W

[susanlea]

Gee, it sounds like you are doing great!  I don't have any answers for you, but you may want to enter the thread at the top.  Sometimes we overlook the postings at the bottom.  Good Luck! and God Bless.....Susan