That was a really good post. I was doing the same circle with the pills trying to get that feeling then not getting and so on,a never ending circle. Thanks Stay Strong
I reckon that you are referring to the HPV vaccine? I was not aware that there was a mortality rate associated with this vaccine. I shall look into this.
And yes, Big Pharma knows all too well what it does. Period. Do you honestly think that corporations of that magnitude make many "unplanned decisions"? hehe, don't happen.
Ino.....we hear about drugs causing all kinds of things from organ failure, to mental disruption to death. Addiction just another one of those side effects? I am starting to think that way.......we just happen to be in the class or small percentage of the unlucky laboratory rats....and it does suck. It seems to me that when you are one of the unlucky who does suffer that whatever percentage......you are tossed under the rug.....
I was watching something recently about the new vaccination for cervical cancer. When a group of doctors were talking, about the risk of death which has occured because of this vaccine....saying that how low the risk is......well, girls are dying because of this vaccine and I wonder how he would think if it was his daughter that died because of a vaccine that "may" reduce the risk of cervical cancer.......Doctors and the medical profession don't look at people like human beings rather a "statistic"
The pharma's know exactly what they are doing. Most already have the numbers all figured out, and put a drug on the market...they have already figured out the profit, after the lawsuit payout.......OIY>>>>>shame on them
nauty......
well...i guess i am not totally sure that addiction is a "disease" or what...wasnt my intention to call it that just found the article interesting...i do beleive that people may have some chemical deficit/NT deficit in the first place that causes the person to enjoy and abuse narcotics where another person does not feel this need when they use...something is different in an addict's brain...i guess when someone is lacking insulin..they call it diabetes/a disease...so maybe so....depression is usually termed an illness/or a disorder..not so much a disease as a rule ..kinda technical but do agree this disorder/disease/illness/craziness is absolutely no fun
Hey nauty,
Lawsuit? Good luck proving it, I mean, it is something that we are still studying, so no chance there methinks.
But yeah, I think I am damaged goods. Seriously. I have done all the usual "recovery ****" and I just cannot seem to get the blinders to fit correctly. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING feels like (x)mg of diacetylmorphine or oxymorphone being injected into a vein and then crossing the blood brain barrier with such rapidity. NOTHING. And therein lies the problem. Its sort of like Neil Armstrong must have felt after walking on the moon, I mean, how do you top that?!? Ya just can't. So, is there such as beast as true recovery? I think for some. Some find some reason or other to stay clean, and that is awesome for them. For me? I just do not see it happening. As such, I am depressed most all of the time while being "clean". I would kill for something to come along, something that tops my earlier "moonwalks", but nothing yet... again.... I just dont know.
Wow, Ray......now you really have my brain ticking.....wouldn't that grounds for a pharma? lawsuit?.....but, then again they do give you the warning of the "side effects" As if they already know this will happen to a certain percentage of people, because it is relativity small if you think about how many people use them and this does not happen to them? the point of never getting it back....so -to-speak.....it sort of makes sense, because one can be off these things for years and wham!! you take one and the brain never forgets....know what I mean?......Im sure they have seen this in experimentation in laboratory rats, but the risk......out weighs the benefits??? .....I hope I made a bit of sense......I am not completly thinking before I speak and this is what happens.....lol.
Nauty.......
hey all,
Let me first state that in addition to the book stuff I have lived it as well, please keep that in mind. At one point while living in Toronto a few years back, my girl and I found ourselves homeless because of our addiction to opioids - for me to synthesize even morphine from codeine, it requires a fair bit of capital investment. Separating the codeine from the acet. and caffeine is trivial, but taking pure codeine to morphine requires a 4 minute boil in pyradine HCL for 4 minutes in a false atmosphere (I used nitrogen), and this requires somewhat pricey equipment. So yeah, we "lived" it as well, and it sucked, no two ways about it. We blew everything we had on street heroin and went bust. I had lost my job, I was not in a good state to get another one... in any event, it was a real low side in my life.
Nauty: disease? nah, it is what it is. Most of this recovery stuff is platitudes in the final analysis. "Oiy"? You an Aussie or a pommy Sheila? hehe
The stuff about rewiring brain function is sort of accurate though. I mean, as all ex opiod addicts know, stuff ***** after quitting. This is because we have nuked our pleasure-reward system so to speak. Done diddy. Some researchers believe that we can never get it back; I am inclined to agree. I dunno, it all sort of stinks, dont it?
Ray
I know exactly what you are talking about. I had done that with hydrocodone. I think it happens when a person takes a drug all the way around the block. But I did get to the point to where the hydrocodone made me feel negative, depressed, and kinda sick. It gave me No enjoyment anymore. None at all.
Be a good little Birthday Girl Lisa..........:-))~~~~~~I don't get it either. Like sometimes people are already lacking something in their systems that make them more susceptible to colds, etc. A low immune system. Maybe we are lacking something and the drug is actually correcting it, or disrupting it???....you know what i mean?......having trouble expressing myself today......U no I have many of those days.......lol.
Luv,
Nauty.......
well, what makes a person continue drug use or why can a person take pain meds for the prescribeded length of time and the next person just gets hooked..I don't get either..
So, if you take a drug that changes and re-wires brain function .....how can we call it a disease. If the drug is doing this? that is my dilema. Maybe I am missing something?
I guess I associate a disease as something that unwilling invades the body, not the other way around.....oiy?
Nauty............
You long time posters just blow me away sometimes ---- This stuff is so interesting and also I think it is very helpful to those who are still struggling with addiction. Everyone needs to know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel -- and to reinforce their reasons for getting clean ---- You guys who have been on here for a long time helping others are the greatest. I for one am very grateful for your help --- perhaps I could have quit without you but I really don't know how. All the best.
good post worried..this is certainly true for me as well, I also can say that I did go "up" and that "high" was never acheived. I would have killed myself trying to get to that. I don't think it really matters if someone is on hydros or something stronger, the outcome is the same. I had the same experience when I was on methadone..there is never "enough" to produce any kind of euphoria..but honestly lets just call it what it is...HIGH..all of the technical school book stuff sounds great and makes sense but living it is the real deal..
worried this is good info. describes me perfectly. so glad i am out of that rat race. lol
Sorry, yer a female. My deepest apologies. Not used to female junkies ;) (Well, there was my ex, queen of the junkies, but thats another story :) ) Take care
Ray
hey, yeah, phencyclidine is better known as PCP or Angle Dust on the streets. Its a pretty strong dissociative. And yep, you are 100% correct, DXM is an NMDA receptor antagonist as well, and it is being studied as well.
Well, its almost 4pm here, time to crawl into a case of beer. take care bro
Ray
oh...PCP....LOL...i was not sure what phencyclidine was
interesting...i had also read they were looking at dextramorphan as well....not familiar with phencyclidine tho..may google that and learn from it..thanx for the info
Gotcha. There has been some promising work done with regard to reducing or eliminating opioid tolerance in cancer patients by using an NMDA receptor antagonist, such as ketamine or phencyclidine, in conjunction with the pain management protocols, however this is early research stage stuff. Considering that I was supplying my own narcotics much of the time, I sometimes forget that most people are "scoring on the streets" and this most certainly has a huge economic component. Good words bro.
peace,
Ray
I realized that...being on hydro which is really not a powerhouse when it comes to the family of narcotics...for me to continue with my tolence i would have fried my liver trying to acheive euphoria and really think i was past hydros and needed to "move up" as u say....i do know had i started on oxycontin or went to the patch...or i guess i could have started mainlining heroin...number one those drugs are not easily available and i was going broke just keeping up with my lortab habit...number 2. even had i switched to a stronger drug..this same thing would have happened when my body/brain adjusted to that stronger drug...there is not an answer that i can see that fits in with living life and staying productive...not for me anyway...and i do know some dont get this reversal of euphoria..or else not yet...not sure it even happens to everyone but it did to me and i think had i switched to oxy or heroin it would have happened again down the road
yep...at the end i feelt pretty stupid...i remember one saturday taking more and more pills all day trying to get out of a slump and just feeling worse and worse with every single one...funny how u remember certain days or times but it is clear in my brain/that day/right now...i remember it vividly..i did not really have enough to last me and i knew i was taking more than i should and i would have to suffer later for it..but i kept on and on that day till i was so tired and depressed i never went anywhere..isolated here in my house ...that day was a turning point for me...i didnt quit right that second but it stuck with me..i found this forum within weeks after that day and 8 months later i am still here...the forum is a great place to be for anyone trying to quit running around in circles and find the peace they are chasing
Very good post!! i just read the article, also very good info..Just like you, at the end, i was miserable, depressed, no energy ..and if i took more to try and get the energy then i got sick to my stomach...
I can remember taking a half of a 10mg a day, and cleaning,and feeling great...I thought to myself, I have found a miracle, and what harm can one half a day too....
Well we know that one half went to 20 a day...And never would I have beleived that yrs before...IT is just sick...
I think this happens to most addicts, and even after a yr , i am not sure if my brain is back to the way it was, or irrivesable....But then again, I dont think i want to go back to the way i was before, because that was the person(brain) that got me addited to begin with....Hope that made sense? lol....I know now, what addiciton is, How it doesn't matter who you are, what color, religion.,etc.....One day at a time!!!
thanks for the info!!
r2r
Worried878, right on!
As an addict I spent years self-medicating myself which eventually brought me to opiate addiction, but when I had tried to quit not only did i have to quickly learn how to forsake the euphoria from the drugs...but also learn how to live with the blahs longs enough until my body could produce it's own happy chemicals, but it was worth it!
Please keep sharing your experiences as I find them very helpful and enlightening!
-Vic
Hey worried, good post, but this dopamine effect is largely dependent upon the drug of abuse. This is very true when said of methamphetamine, less so with opioids by the very nature of their pharmacological effect. Euphoria with opioids can always be achieved by increasing dosage because of the very process of agonizing the mu receptors and its effect in the limbic system of the brain. After morphine and diacetylmorphine (heroin) stopped doing it for me as effectively, I switched to fentanyl, and that hit the spot. There is always a stronger opioid (carfentanyl, an analogue of fentanyl, for example, used to tranquilize big African game, like elephants and rhinos). There appears to be no upward limit to tolerance, in theory anyway, well until the level of opioids in the plasma begins displacing that plasma to such levels that it does indeed have a toxic effect, but there is no direct toxic effect from most opioids (save for a few exceptions, methadone and pethadine for example), but as I said, there are analogues of fentanyl so powerful that 1mg of it would kill many 1000s of opioid knaive people, so the sky is the limit.
peace
Ray