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Alternate Pain Reliever
by Shea, Sep 05, 2001 12:00AM
As I was going through my detox (and totally freaking out) my Dr. gave me a medicine called Neurontin also know as Gabapentin. This is an anticonvulsant (epilepsy) med. But it has A LOT of "off- label" use. It is generally a safe drug to take. No high, no addiction. I have been taking it for a couple weeks. I did stop for 2 days but started again because I found I felt worse without it. The bad thing is it can make you have a little vertigo or stagger. But they claim this subsides in a couple weeks. PLEASE check out this site. Especially some of you with chronic pain WW Broken Bones and any other suffering. See what you think and talk to your Dr. Actually I approached my Dr. as I found out about this drug doing research. And he thought it would be a great idea. Although he didn't think to suggest it. Here is the site. http://web.tampabay.rr.com/lymecfs/neurontin01.htm
You can go to several different pages talking about the benefits and off label use of this drug. I just know like many of you I suffer with chronic pain. But I can't manage my meds. "When 1 would do I take 2" and so forth. So this hopefully will be of great interest to you. It is also suppose to help with withdrawls which I found to be true. I didn't realize how much it helps until I stopped taking it for a couple days. Another drug which can only be used occasionally and during extreme flare ups is METHYLPRED PAK (generic for MEDROL) This is an cortizone/steriod pak. You start the first day with 6, second day 5 and down to 1. It is GREAT if your pain is out of control due to inflammation.Good Luck
Shea
You can go to several different pages talking about the benefits and off label use of this drug. I just know like many of you I suffer with chronic pain. But I can't manage my meds. "When 1 would do I take 2" and so forth. So this hopefully will be of great interest to you. It is also suppose to help with withdrawls which I found to be true. I didn't realize how much it helps until I stopped taking it for a couple days. Another drug which can only be used occasionally and during extreme flare ups is METHYLPRED PAK (generic for MEDROL) This is an cortizone/steriod pak. You start the first day with 6, second day 5 and down to 1. It is GREAT if your pain is out of control due to inflammation.Good Luck
Shea
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3 times a day. the vertigo was so bad, i stoped taking after the
first week. the second time, i was put on 100 mgs, three times
a day. the smaller dose minimised the vertigo, but after being
on it for a week i had a severe allergic reaction to it. my
wind pipe swelled shut. i'm allergic to wasp and bee stings, so
i had several epipens i used to get me to the hospital ER. the
ER doc told me that aqllergic reactions to this drug are quite
common and i was damm lucky i had access to the epipen as it
probably saved my life. this same pain doc then put me on a "new
drug" called called trileptol. samething. after the first dose
i had a severe allergic reaction. out came the epipen again. i
changed pain docs, after the second visit to ER. the new pain-
doc i now have uses more traditional treatment. i now take 40mgs
of oxy-contin 3 times a day. even though oxy-c is addictive, i'll
will take it any time over an anaphylactic shock from these "non-
addictive, safe" drugs.
even though i haven't been posting lately, i have had time to
look at the forum ever other day or so. the past 3 weeks i've
been real busy at the university i work at. once i get thru the
start of fall semester, i hope to post more often.
hey witchy-woman: your one of the few who were posting when i was
real active last summer. after reading your recent posts it would
seem you've put a little bit of space between yourself and the
dragon- good job!
Skipper!! Nice to see you posting. I missed you and I was going to post a "Where is Kip" message if you didn't pop up soon. :-)
Thanks for the encouragement....even though I do have pain still, it is not as bad as the emotional pain I was in due to the addiction. So far the Dragon whispering to use again has been minimal, and when it comes, I take Wiz's advice and laugh in its face, then read the forum to gain strength. Without you guys, I'd still be popping 15 vics a day and be rationalizing and justifying my reasons for doing so. Here's hoping for the ability to stay on this path.
love,
WW
Skipper, I totally aggree. We are on the exact same dose of Oxy. I was worried about going to the 40s, but my doc assured me the medication goes way up there. So we're really on minimal dosages in comparison to most. I believe Francoise is on this amount too.
W.W.....you go girl!....Got a post for ya down below. LOL
Yes, i do get a lot of vertigo and light headed. But I feel enegetic and in a better mood. your experience Skipper sounds terrible. Today i took it and had some heart palpatations. thank goodness i didn't read this post first or i would have been sure it was an reaction. I do appreciate you sharing your experience. I am on the fence. It helps in a lot of way but disables to i.e. can't drive and stagger. katie r I am waiting to hear a reply on your post as I wonder the same thing.
also, DOES ANYONE EVER HAVE POST ACUTE WITHDRAWLS. TODAY IS 1 MONTH FOR ME WITHOUT VICODEN. But, i still crave it. the worst is out of the blue, usually at night i start to get that restless, skin crawling feeling. Anyone experience this after a few weeks??? For me it is also constant nausea STILL!
Detoxing sucks but you did it! You should be real proud of yourself, I can tell you we are.
I've taken neurontin and had the same effects as Durty, what I was told is that neurontin at low level dosis, is not very effective as a pain or nerve damage relief med. They start you low to get your body used to the possible side effects, and then raise the dose accordingly. This ment that you had to go up into the 2000mgs or higher, to really get the effects, but then your brain dead.
My sister who has MS was also on this, and had the same effects. We dumped it! Be careful! and as usual there are people who swear by it!
Glass half empty or half full.
WW hope your pain mgmt went smoothly, Iv'e read some of your posts, I'm so busy with the new buisness and school, that I haven't told you that I'm thinking of ya and sending out all my thoughts and prayers to you, so You to can get through this soon!
All my thoughts to all for a strong day !!
peace
mickytim
Only thing I can chime in on with that , is when I decided to get off oxy's and Percs, I spoke with three Dr's, all 3 said the best way was a meth program, which I replied You f---ing got me hooked on junk, sorry got carried away there.
But the out come was now your on meth, and from my friends who were addicts on H, they say meth is harder to get of than the H, go fiqure, once again glass half empty or half full!
I called 5 or 6 different clinics and was told, that besides the ones who use meth, there are ones that use Darvon or something simalar, and then wayne you off that.
I chose to sit home and be as frigin miserable as hell and go cold turkey!
Call as many places and get as many different choices as possible and then really look at what you think is best, I say why create another problem when I'm trying to get off this, but who am I, Dr's think they know better!! No offense Dr. Steve!!
Power and strength to get through the day
peace mickytim
My first exposure to this drug was in the late 60's and early
70's. at that time there were many fedseral funded "clinics"
that dispenced methadone to individuals to replace heroin with
methadone. at that time many M.D. had misconceptions about meth-
adone. the most significant misconception was that the more meth=
adone they could put an addict on, the beter! there is some blocking action with methadone, in other words it prevents other
narcotics from affect on the user. this blocking action is not
predictable among all addicts. in other words the blocking action
isn't equally demonstrated among all addicts. what may provide as
a blocking dose in one addict, will not be a blocking dose in an-
other addict. many addicts can also shoot thru a blocking dose
with massive amounts of narcotics.
why not methadone?:
clinics today are not the big goverment funded party they were in
60's & 70's. new regulations have tighted up access and services.
the only similaritys between then and now are the level of comp-
etence of the individuals whom staff methodone clinics. Because
of underfunding, clinics are usually staffed by incompettent,
sadistic people who take delight in degrading the clientel they
are supposed to serve. ongoing constant harresmant by clinic
personel who treat addicts like naughty children first, and sick
people as an after thought. last summer i had trouble finding a pain doctor who would treat me on an ongoing basis. in desper-
ation, i made an appointment with a clinic that serves a metro area of 3/4 million people. the appointment was for 8:oo amm. i took a day off of work. at 5:45 am the day of my appointment i got a phone call from the clinic, telling me my appointment had been moved to the next week! see- i haven't even walked thru the
door an already they are ******* with my head.
if there is going to be govt. funded narcotic maintence, and if
it has to be done with methadone, so be it. Lets make sure we
staff the clinic with with competent and compassionate people
who don't shout soee (hog call) when they open the doors each
morning.
Chad, do you think you are the kind of person who would stand
for a sadistic dumb-**** run you around and degrade you, before
you could get the medicine that fixxed you? From what i've read
of your posts, i dont think you are.
keep an angel on your shoulder!
kip
WW I wrote to you about nerve blocks down in last posting hope you read it maybe they can help!!! You are the best my favorite wican!!!!
I'm doing ok...had a rough morning, when we discovered that the vet tech gave us 100mg elavils instead of the 10mg elavil tabs that my kitty takes (she has a nasty urine spraying problem that the elavil helps control). The dose we gave her this morning from the new bottle was way more than she is supposed to take.
So, this was a potentially lethal dose for a cat. Luckily, I noticed early that there was something seriously wrong with her. She was howling, and didn't resist when I picked her up to snuggle her (with this cat, attempts at snuggling are usually met with sharp claws!) I called the vet and he discovered the mistake and told me to rush her in. I left her there, not knowing if she'd survive or not, but he just called me and told me she's going to pull through, but he's keeping her overnight.
I know this has nothing to do with addiction, but it is what was going on for me today. I have four cats, and each one is precious to me, so this was a huge scare. (There is almost always a cat on my lap while I'm typing).
At least today is a pretty low pain day, and I have no cravings, for which I am very grateful. You know, I did actually pray a lot the last time I had cravings, and I think it really helped them decrease..that and reminding myself about the hell that living with the addiction has been. I'm still newly clean, so it is a day by day thing..I'm learning how to deal with it as I go. Even with a day as tense as today...I am so glad to be facing it fully feeling everything! This morning I woke up with gratitude in my heart, gratitude that the first thing I did was reach over for my husband, rather than reach over for the bottle of pills. God, just writing that brought tears to my eyes...
I am grateful for each and every one of you.
lots and lots of love,
WW
Want to thank you all for the warm welcome I have received. Yesterday was one month clean of the forbidden fruit "vicoden".
I do miss them and still have hugh cravings, but a lot of will power too.
After I stopped I carried 2 pills in my purse and 7 oxy's in a bottle for the first 3 weeks. I was very tempted to take them but knew after they were gone there would be no more and no place to get them. Besides I didn't want to start over again on the initial detox. Since I have disposed of them. I go to the DR. today to find out results of blood work. As I have been severely nausea everyday since I stopped. And living on Zofran to help with the nausea. I pray I didn't do my liver in.
I was laughing at the stories of tearin the couch and car apart. I never did this as I was sure there were done to be found. But I also seemed to drop the behind this heavy ass dresser I have. And when I was low I would kill myself moving this ***** to find one or two.
I wish you all well today and hope your in good spirit.
Stay Strong!
Shea
You could ask a doctor for an antidepressant, but I'd urge you to try the 5 HTP. You can get it at a health food store such as GNC or any vitamin store. It is an amino acid that is the direct precursor to seratonin, so it lets your body make more seratonin right away. With antidepressant meds, which I have been on and fully support, it takes several weeks to get the effect. With 5 HTP, the effect reached me in half an hour. It comes from a plant. There are no known side effects according the the original research studies that I have read. My doc says it is safe and good. A Psychiatrist I work with gives it to patients instead of prozac and is having excellent results.
Please, give it a try. I am convinced it is the reason that I am not struggling with the depression that is so common to those of us who are newly clean.
Also Katie, reach out to NA. It sounds like face to face support would really really help you right now.
I'll keep sending prayers and healing vibes your way. You can reach out and just know that I am sending love and light toward you. You CAN do this Katie...but don't try to do it alone..I don't think any of us can do it alone.
lots of love,
WW
I just wanted to thank you for sharing your voice of experience, hope and strength. Your words help me make the choice every day to stay clean. I still have back pain and my Doc would fill my script anytime I asked. But I don't want to go down that route again.
I'm glad you are here!
love,
WW
Shea
Shea, you are doing so great!!!! I am sure your strength will help so many others on this forum!! Again welcome
WW, just wanted to say Hi and I hope your pain is not too bad today. When do you go to the pain specialist?
mothers_friend***@****
mothers_friend***@****
mothers_friend***@****
You are describing being in a classic abusive relationship. Please, please get some help for yourself. I know it is easier said than done, and that not everyone has the means to leave, but I fear for you. You didn't say if your boyfriend is physically abusing you, but you did describe classic emotional and verbal abuse. No wonder you are having panic attacks!
Go to your local mental health center, or wherever your disability insurance provides mental health care, and talk to a counselor. Domestic violence is taken very, very seriously these days. Tell someone what is going on and they will help you create a plan to get some help. And..please know...you don't have to be physically abused to be a sufferer of Domestic Violence. Domestic Violence is also defined as emotional and verbal abuse.
WW
Thanks for asking..yes, I did go see my back Doc, who is also a pain specialist and I walked out of there crying.
Basically, he told me there was nothing more he can do for me till we know if my surgery failed or not, which will be another 3 months. He was ok with me off the vics, but offered me ultram instead (he told me it was a non addictive narcotic, and now considers me non compliant for not wanting to go on it..but I know better from reading this forum!). He told me that celebrex is not a good choice for me, given that my pain generator is not inflamation (inflammation). He suggested renoven, which I'm not even sure what that is, I'm looking into it. He didn't want to try toradol. I refused narcotics. He did say that I should take the vicoprofen as needed, but that is just not something that I can handle at this point, and probably ever. I'm still taking it a day at a time.
I'm going to look into getting a tens unit.
Oddly, I've noticed that during withdrawals week, when I took the valium, it totally helped my back pain. I took another valium a few days ago for a killer migraine, and though it did nothing for the headache, it nuked the back pain waaaaay down.
Now, I do not want to go on valium regularly...don't want another addiction to creep up, but maybe there is a non addictive muscle relaxer that will help with the pain. That is the next thing I'm going to look into.
How are things going for you Jules? I'd love to know..
take care!
WW
mode, and finally post something. you covered some things i've
been through just recently.
the wait and see about your back- isn't this one fun. the last surgery on my cervical spine was in may of this year. I didn't
get the "looks like it's going to be ok until last month. i won't
know until November if it was sucessful for sure. isn't this one
fun? not only did i get screwed out of summer, but i can spend
the fall in worry too. i have no insight in how to "do this strech
of time." time will pass, so i've tried to make the best of it.
about the tens unit-
don't buy one. they are incrediably exspensive, and there pain
relieveing value is dubious at best. when i've used one in the past
i got good results for about 10 days and then nothing. Rent or
lease one, preferably with an option of terminating lease whenever returned.
non addictive muscle relaxer- you and i and the rest of the whole
forum wants this. anthing that works well is going to have a cer-
tain amount of addiction potential to it. the closest thing to
an abuse-free one is flexeril (cyclobenzaprine). this drug is in
the phenothiozine family (phenergan, thorazine, etc). i've had
pretty good expierence using it. i use it instead of valium or
other benzo's, when i do a detox. as near as i can tell this
drug has very little addiction potential. i've also found that
taking more than 10mg. of flexerial, does nothing to increase
it's effect.
best of luck with all of this, i know as well as you what coming
back frome spinal surgery is to an addict! if you really want to
amuse yourself, get a copy of "Naked Lunch," by William S Bur-
roughs. it is an awfully demented, but hysterically funny in-
sight into opiate addiction. if this book is to visseral, you
might try Kentucky Ham, written by William Burroughs Jr. who
is more of the baby-boomer generation. i couldn't think of thru
a drug WD without one or the other.
keep an angel on your shoulder!
kip
now let me get this clear- hooking up a tens unit where- to build
up what? yea i heard about all the "alternate uses."
there may indeed be something to electricly stimulated accupuncture
though. i've read real intresting reports of work done by Margret
Patterson. until she died she detoxed kieth richard about a half
dozen times. she also detoxed eric clapton and pete townsend with
this method. now befor you run out and buy a tens unit, hold on.
the tens unit does not function in the same way. the tens unit
blocks nerves from sending their ouch mesage. Margret Patterson
wrote a book called "Getting Off the Hook" if any one is intrested.
having worked in the field of electronics, i played around with
pulse generators and eeg electrode patches back in the early 80s.
got some intresting results, but never anything like Dr. patterson.
Good thing maybe-- could you see me slinking around with a HP
pulse generator and a head band of eeg electrodes!
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
I have been on flexeril, but I hate the way it makes me feel. Totally doped up and that dry mouth and dulled brain just makes me feel so crappy. What about Robaxin? Is that addictive?
Kip, yep...I know what you mean about that horrid waiting game.
I've spent the entire summer on the couch. The whole three months. And I still hurt worse than before the surgery. I'm worried that the surgery made me worse, not better. I don't know what I'll do if that is the case. Along with being a shrink I'm a dancer. Middle eastern dance is a HUGE part of my life. I perform, I teach, it is my passion...and if I have to give that up, I'll be extremely upset. It has been hard enough being away from it for three months. Before the surgery I just used a ton of pain pills to be able to dance.
I go back to work a week from tomorrow, and can hardly wait to get my life back to normal. I know I'll ***** and moan about being busy again...LOL...and I don't love getting up at 5:30am, but I've seen enough of my couch.
love,
WW
the cool thing about middle eastern dance (ok, ok, yes, it is bellydance!) is that the older the women are who do it, the more respect they get as artists. It is really true. One of my favorite teachers way back when I was a baby dancer used to always say "A dancer who is under 40 can be good, but will never be great, because until you are at least 40, you haven't lived long enough to really have anything to dance about" LOL
I don't know if I agree with him on that or not, I'll find out in a year when I turn 40...but I love knowing that there is a dance form where age is seen as an added benefit. In Egypt, the best dancers, and the most famous ones, tend to be age 45 or so. Until that age, they are just "building their career". So see? It gets better..we are like fiiiiiine wine. :-)
ok..I'm off to try and unload the dishwasher. Until I can do that with no pain, no shimmies for me. lol
love,
WW
WW
These electrical units are very different than TENS. They use a lower current and go by microcurrent electrotherapy or cranial electrical therapy. The current is at a similar level to the normal electricity across cells and is healing. The higher currents just block pain temporarily. These increase Seritonin and Endorphins according to many good studies, which help to counter withdrawal. This is a much safer way to detox than using any kind of psychotropic drug. I've seen those leave people in worse shape than before they got treatment. My brother got introduced to benzos in rehab for alcohol and now we can't get him away from the benzos! Antidepressents worked for a while until he peaked out on effective doses.
There are 2 units available in the US that are microcurrent devices. There are a few outpatient clinics that have them that are getting better results than any traditional program I've seen. We just started using them for treatment last year and have been amazed by the results. We have tried to present them to other rehab places, but haven't gotten a lot of interest.I guess they like repeat customers! Another very important part of what Dr. Meg did was take patients off of all psychotropics substances at once (that includes caffine and nicotene.) It seems the brain does best at getting the neurotransmitters back to normal with these units when they are not being interfered with by other chemicals. There is more info on our website TKWolf.com if interested. I'd like more info on your backround with electrical units. ( I am not trying to push any product here--we are in this business to help people and have yet to make any $ from it! We would just like to see treatment available that WORKS!)
Barb