Aa
Always hardest at the end?
I have tapered down to one oxy and one hydro a day. One a day. Half of the oxy in the early morning hours when I wake up in misery at 4 am, Half a hydro about noon, half a hydro about 6 pm, and half an oxy when I go to bed. Sometimes I take a quarter and see if it works.
I think I wont ever be able to get off these last pills. I rationalize with myself every step of the way, one pill can't hurt the baby, the baby can't get addicted to just one pill a day. Then I take it, and I spend the rest of the day beating myself up at how weak I am. I have 9 months to get off the last one little pill. Okay, 8 months. Can I taper the last little itty bitty pill in 8 months for crying out loud?!?
I hate oxycontin and hydrocodone. There is nothing in my life I cannot control but these stupid little yellow pills. Is it possible to taper in such a way that I do not notice it? I have not found it yet.
I think I wont ever be able to get off these last pills. I rationalize with myself every step of the way, one pill can't hurt the baby, the baby can't get addicted to just one pill a day. Then I take it, and I spend the rest of the day beating myself up at how weak I am. I have 9 months to get off the last one little pill. Okay, 8 months. Can I taper the last little itty bitty pill in 8 months for crying out loud?!?
I hate oxycontin and hydrocodone. There is nothing in my life I cannot control but these stupid little yellow pills. Is it possible to taper in such a way that I do not notice it? I have not found it yet.
Good morning all from the Land of Lincoln. Great thread. Oxy, I think the first thing you should do is change your name to oxyhell. Get off the guilt-worry train b/4 it gets up some speed. You are lucky. I see a young woman with a beautiful baby and a whole life of thankfulnes. Let the doc help ya.
Oxy, I'm really proud of you, you know. That might not mean much coming from a stranger out here in the ether, but even the fact that you are trying is huge; so many people don't even try.
wait2long, as I said, the field of study is just now burgeoning, but there are recent non-academic texts to which I can point you. Unfortunately, most of that data is on my work machine, so I'll have to wait until Monday. For what it is worth, as far as I know, there haven't been any *documented* cases of gross physical or developmental disabilities as a sole result of increased stress hormones in gestating mothers, but more subtle biophysical and biochemical aberrations are documented, though we're really just beginning to scratch the surface regarding the exact mechanisms involved.
I will return on Monday and point you to some current research you may find interesting.
wait2long, as I said, the field of study is just now burgeoning, but there are recent non-academic texts to which I can point you. Unfortunately, most of that data is on my work machine, so I'll have to wait until Monday. For what it is worth, as far as I know, there haven't been any *documented* cases of gross physical or developmental disabilities as a sole result of increased stress hormones in gestating mothers, but more subtle biophysical and biochemical aberrations are documented, though we're really just beginning to scratch the surface regarding the exact mechanisms involved.
I will return on Monday and point you to some current research you may find interesting.
i think i really need to talk to you about "your field" of work...where can i find information on stress hormones being released by the mother...damaging fetus brain. i have a 22 year old son who is handicapped, undiagnosed syndrome...but i was under sooo much stress during my pregnancy with him its a wonder either of us is here to talk about it. where can i find information on the study or research you are talking about?
Ot maybe I will start having morning sickness, and I wont be able to stomach even putting the pill into my mouth at all!!! Wouldn't THAT be great?? I can barf out all the toxins and be too sick feeling to put them back in. Maybe I should pray for morning sickness!!!! :)
Yah, I have done research on the stress component. I have really done my best to minimize the stress. One of my stepsons is handicapped, and taking care of him alone can elevate my stress level. I have been working on that so much, and not allowing myself to do anything stressful. I spend a lot of these last days of summer reading and sitting on my heating pad! I have to take progesterone in oil injections into my muscle everynight, so my behind is sore!
I know I need to get completely off, and I feel so much like I can until I start to get the uncomfortable w/d symptoms, and then the worrying comes into play. Am I doing more harm by not taking a half a pill and feeling like this, or more harm just taking the half a pill. It is hard to know what to do, but I do have some time to do it and it helps to know that I am not causing any harm to the fetus while I taper off the rest. I know I am almost there, but right now that end does seem far away. Once school starts again and I have more on my mind, more things to do, I think it might be better. Right now all I have to do is think, analyze, research, and think some more. It is exhausting!!!!
Thank you so much for all the help tonight and I will be back tomorrow. I am going to watch the Sandlot with my kiddos!
I know I need to get completely off, and I feel so much like I can until I start to get the uncomfortable w/d symptoms, and then the worrying comes into play. Am I doing more harm by not taking a half a pill and feeling like this, or more harm just taking the half a pill. It is hard to know what to do, but I do have some time to do it and it helps to know that I am not causing any harm to the fetus while I taper off the rest. I know I am almost there, but right now that end does seem far away. Once school starts again and I have more on my mind, more things to do, I think it might be better. Right now all I have to do is think, analyze, research, and think some more. It is exhausting!!!!
Thank you so much for all the help tonight and I will be back tomorrow. I am going to watch the Sandlot with my kiddos!
I just wanted to come back in and clarify my above post. Without getting too technical about it, when I say that elevated levels of stress hormones in a gestating woman can damage a fetus's brain, I don't mean acute or severe brain damage. I mean subtle changes to certain areas of the brain that can or may effect how the eventual child processes and reacts to stress stimulus throughout his or her life.
Oh hon, you are SO close to being drug free for the remainder of your pregnancy. I know you are scared but you can totally do this. You can. At this point, it's probably more psychological than anything (not to discount any physical discomfort you are in, but it sounds like you've already tapered significantly) and I think you are making 100% the right decision to taper and then stop altogether. You say you feel guilty and think about pills all day. Just think, once you stop completely, you have a blissful nine full months completely guilt-free. No more researching possible bad effects on the fetus, no more obsessing, etc. You know what one of the really bad things is for a developing fetus (now we ARE getting into my field, as opposed to other times when I just pretend to be an expert, haha)? Stress hormones released by the mother. This is a nascent field of research, really hot right now, and they're finding that pregnant women who are releasing elevated levels of stress hormones can actually damage a fetus's brain. Of course with you, nothing is crossing the placenta yet, so you can nip anything like that in the bud.
I really feel for you, you are in a difficult position, but I can also tell from your posts that you know, deep down, the right thing to do AND that you have the strength to do it. Make the choice that won't wrack you with guilt.
Oh, and finally, yes, you should and can taper super-slowly by even shaving bits off pills, day by day.
I really feel for you, you are in a difficult position, but I can also tell from your posts that you know, deep down, the right thing to do AND that you have the strength to do it. Make the choice that won't wrack you with guilt.
Oh, and finally, yes, you should and can taper super-slowly by even shaving bits off pills, day by day.
I wont taper too fast, that is the least of your worries!!!!! I might not be able to taper at all ........
Yes, Tennessee fans drive down to Athens a lot because we now own them :) Kinda like Florida owns us :(...Please, don't taper too quickly..and if possible, save a dose for late night. The sleep deprivation was always my worst enemy.
I thought of calling my children's pediatrician and going in to talk to her. It would probably be a good idea and I will do that next week.
What I started doing yesterday was this: Allowing myself to take 2 norcos a day, so 4 halfs. That was one half every 4 hours. So I did that yesterday, but thought myself into oblivion about the oxy's being schedule b, which means they have tested it and it shows no effects of the fetus, versus the norcos which are schedule c, which means they don't know. Most people assume vicodin is safe and drs prescribe it all the time in pregnancy. But I had this little habit, for legitmate pain mind you but it is still a habit, before I got pregnant and if I keep taking the pills then I will have taken them the whole pregnancy and those are the most likely babies to have a slight addiction at birth.
So I am doing 4 halfs a day, half every 4 hours. I will see where that takes me, and I will cut one half down in a couple of days and so on. In a couple weeks I should be off completely. I hope. Tapering has been hard though, but it is mostly mental. The little voice is in my head telling me "vicodin is safe during pregnancy, your dr. told you it was, they prescribe it all the time." :)
Go DAWGS! I can't believe how big college ball is down there. I'd see those Vols fans driving down I-75 for the games, cracked me up!!!
What I started doing yesterday was this: Allowing myself to take 2 norcos a day, so 4 halfs. That was one half every 4 hours. So I did that yesterday, but thought myself into oblivion about the oxy's being schedule b, which means they have tested it and it shows no effects of the fetus, versus the norcos which are schedule c, which means they don't know. Most people assume vicodin is safe and drs prescribe it all the time in pregnancy. But I had this little habit, for legitmate pain mind you but it is still a habit, before I got pregnant and if I keep taking the pills then I will have taken them the whole pregnancy and those are the most likely babies to have a slight addiction at birth.
So I am doing 4 halfs a day, half every 4 hours. I will see where that takes me, and I will cut one half down in a couple of days and so on. In a couple weeks I should be off completely. I hope. Tapering has been hard though, but it is mostly mental. The little voice is in my head telling me "vicodin is safe during pregnancy, your dr. told you it was, they prescribe it all the time." :)
Go DAWGS! I can't believe how big college ball is down there. I'd see those Vols fans driving down I-75 for the games, cracked me up!!!
I did live in Georgia..near Athens..Go Dawgs!! Live in Charleston now. God why didn't I go somewhere cooler!! By the way..please don't disappear on me. Let me know when you decide on a treatment. The people on here will figure something out!! Find a great pediatrician..it may be very beneficial!!
Thank you so much for your suggestions. I am in a pickle here. I know it.
Incidentally, do you live in GA? I lived there for 5 years, had my son there. I lived in Marietta, then bought my first house in Acworth up north of Marietta.
Incidentally, do you live in GA? I lived there for 5 years, had my son there. I lived in Marietta, then bought my first house in Acworth up north of Marietta.
Cant while pregnant. I cant take sub or clonidine or any benzos. I cant take melatonin or L-t's.
Have you considered Suboxone therapy? Done the right way, like FLaddict and beach suggests, it can beneficial.
No. I have 4 other kids - my 2 and hubby's 2. He travels with his new job and I am the only one to care for them. Their other bio-parents are not involved.
Like I said, I am only 4 weeks. There is no heartbeat or anything to moniter at this point in the game. As long as I beat this in a few days or maybe weeks, it should be fine. Just the tapering sucks a s s.
Like I said, I am only 4 weeks. There is no heartbeat or anything to moniter at this point in the game. As long as I beat this in a few days or maybe weeks, it should be fine. Just the tapering sucks a s s.
Oxy...you're very right. I'm sorry I didn't realize that. Tapering is a double edged sword. It definitely helps some with withdrawals. The problem is, I'm an addict, and tapering me was making 90 percs last 8 days instead of 6. You know, withdrawals are said to not be usually life threatening...but, I have no idea about what the stress would do on a fetus. Have you got the resources to try an inpatient detox where you could be monitored?
I have read through this several times. But since I am in very early pregnancy, I cannot take many of the things in the Thomas recipe. I have xanaz and valium a few feet away in my medicine cabinet. But I don't think it is a good idea with being pregs.
Oxy..if you're sure you can taper, then the norcos will stay in the system a shorter time and will make the final cold turkey shorter (hopefully). Here's some information that may help...
This is a work in progress...something I've been working on off and on for the last couple of weeks. It's not considered complete, but has lots of info from lots of sources. If any of the "old timers" have anything to add, let me know and I'll add it to the document. I hope to use this to post a general "how to" every couple of days or so.
Listed below are suggestions for detoxing and quitting an opiate addiction. They are just suggestions compiled from the detox plans of people that have gone through cold turkey detox before. They are just that, suggestions, and any detox plan is best when done under a doctor's care. Consult your doctor before trying any of the suggestions below.
This is prewritten for anyone who is beginning, or planning on beginning, a cold turkey withdrawal to opiates. This includes drugs such as tramadol (Ultracet and Ultram) codeine (Tylenol #3, #4), Darvocet, Hydrocodone (Vicodin, Norco, Lortab and derivatives), Oxycodone (Endocet, Percocet, Oxycontin), Morphine, Demerol. Fentanyl, and Dilaudud. There are many other opiates not listed, so if you don’t see it listed, you can still use these suggestions if it’s an opiate based addiction. None of these apply to benzodiazepine based addictions. These addictions should never be dealt with by going cold turkey. Always consult a doctor for a detox plan for benzos.
First of all, opiate withdrawals are uncomfortable, but rarely life threatening. You may think you’re going to die, but most of the withdrawal symptoms are just very uncomfortable. If possible, take some time off work or schedule a week or so in order to fully detox. You will honestly not feel like doing much anyway. Opiate withdrawal symptoms usually start 12-24 hours after your last dose. But, the timing of withdrawal symptoms depends upon the drug taken, length of time you’ve been taking it, and how you react to medications. The physical withdrawals usually last 3-7 days, with days 3 and 4 being the worst. Once again, this is all dependent on the person. You can expect these symptoms. Dilated pupils, diarrhea, runny nose, goose bumps, abdominal pain, stomach cramps, sweating, agitation, anxiety, nausea, vomiting, leg cramps, general aches and pains, and sleeplessness. This list is not absolute. You may experience all of these symptoms, only some of them, or other symptoms. Again, we are all different. Below is the famous Thomas Recipe. It gives some general information along with supplements that help with the withdrawal symptoms. The only thing I would add to this list is a blood pressure drug named clonidine. It effectively lowers the blood pressure and lessens many of the withdrawal symptoms. Most any doctor will prescribe it if you’re honest as to why you need it. Discuss dosages and frequency with your doctor.
Thomas Recipe:
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).
How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5. During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it. At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help. With breakfast, take the mineral supplement. As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.
This is a work in progress...something I've been working on off and on for the last couple of weeks. It's not considered complete, but has lots of info from lots of sources. If any of the "old timers" have anything to add, let me know and I'll add it to the document. I hope to use this to post a general "how to" every couple of days or so.
Listed below are suggestions for detoxing and quitting an opiate addiction. They are just suggestions compiled from the detox plans of people that have gone through cold turkey detox before. They are just that, suggestions, and any detox plan is best when done under a doctor's care. Consult your doctor before trying any of the suggestions below.
This is prewritten for anyone who is beginning, or planning on beginning, a cold turkey withdrawal to opiates. This includes drugs such as tramadol (Ultracet and Ultram) codeine (Tylenol #3, #4), Darvocet, Hydrocodone (Vicodin, Norco, Lortab and derivatives), Oxycodone (Endocet, Percocet, Oxycontin), Morphine, Demerol. Fentanyl, and Dilaudud. There are many other opiates not listed, so if you don’t see it listed, you can still use these suggestions if it’s an opiate based addiction. None of these apply to benzodiazepine based addictions. These addictions should never be dealt with by going cold turkey. Always consult a doctor for a detox plan for benzos.
First of all, opiate withdrawals are uncomfortable, but rarely life threatening. You may think you’re going to die, but most of the withdrawal symptoms are just very uncomfortable. If possible, take some time off work or schedule a week or so in order to fully detox. You will honestly not feel like doing much anyway. Opiate withdrawal symptoms usually start 12-24 hours after your last dose. But, the timing of withdrawal symptoms depends upon the drug taken, length of time you’ve been taking it, and how you react to medications. The physical withdrawals usually last 3-7 days, with days 3 and 4 being the worst. Once again, this is all dependent on the person. You can expect these symptoms. Dilated pupils, diarrhea, runny nose, goose bumps, abdominal pain, stomach cramps, sweating, agitation, anxiety, nausea, vomiting, leg cramps, general aches and pains, and sleeplessness. This list is not absolute. You may experience all of these symptoms, only some of them, or other symptoms. Again, we are all different. Below is the famous Thomas Recipe. It gives some general information along with supplements that help with the withdrawal symptoms. The only thing I would add to this list is a blood pressure drug named clonidine. It effectively lowers the blood pressure and lessens many of the withdrawal symptoms. Most any doctor will prescribe it if you’re honest as to why you need it. Discuss dosages and frequency with your doctor.
Thomas Recipe:
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).
How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5. During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it. At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help. With breakfast, take the mineral supplement. As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.
Yes, you are right about the oxy's being controlled release. But I had to cut down somehow. I don't get any high from taking them, I just don't feel like I want to crawl out of my own skin if I take a quarter of one.
I am not very pregnant, 4 weeks only. The embryo doesn't even start getting nutrients from me until next week. So I am sure I have a few days still to figure this out. Problem is, I said that a few days ago and I really haven't figured anything out yet. Just that I need to be done and I don't know how I am going to get there.
I am not very pregnant, 4 weeks only. The embryo doesn't even start getting nutrients from me until next week. So I am sure I have a few days still to figure this out. Problem is, I said that a few days ago and I really haven't figured anything out yet. Just that I need to be done and I don't know how I am going to get there.
Exactly. You are very right.
Do you know the best way to taper without feeling like s h i t all day long?
Do you know the best way to taper without feeling like s h i t all day long?
Taper with the Norco's. Get the Oxy's behind you.
Norco's are damn strong themselves, you know, but you have to get down to nothing somehow, right?
Norco's are damn strong themselves, you know, but you have to get down to nothing somehow, right?
Also, yes I think it is a very wise idea to talk to the dr again. Let him know your concerns and struggle.
I do know , well should not say I know b/c I am not a dr and never took oxy, but have heard with the Oxy that the time released thing plays a part in not cutting them up. However, if you are cutting them in half or quartered and not taking ALL the peices that the total amount of medication of the whole tablet is not then being dispensed all at once into your system. But I can't be sure, like I said talk with dr and be sure what you should do.
Let us know how things do work out though ok?
And if your getting too overhwelmed or w/d's are too bad, post as much as you want to somebody is always on here. If it's too bad though you may want to call dr or be seen right away too, just to be certain all is ok with baby. You know your body, and you know I am not a dr so you know what I mean. :)
Thoughts and prayers your way!
Tracy
I do know , well should not say I know b/c I am not a dr and never took oxy, but have heard with the Oxy that the time released thing plays a part in not cutting them up. However, if you are cutting them in half or quartered and not taking ALL the peices that the total amount of medication of the whole tablet is not then being dispensed all at once into your system. But I can't be sure, like I said talk with dr and be sure what you should do.
Let us know how things do work out though ok?
And if your getting too overhwelmed or w/d's are too bad, post as much as you want to somebody is always on here. If it's too bad though you may want to call dr or be seen right away too, just to be certain all is ok with baby. You know your body, and you know I am not a dr so you know what I mean. :)
Thoughts and prayers your way!
Tracy
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