Am I killing myself? Medical opinion needed please.....

[squirrel1970]

For the last 16 months I have been addicted to/abusing prescription painkillers. Mostly Vicodin and Vicodin ES, with some Vicoprofen thrown in. I take an average of at least 10 Vicodin ES a day, usually more, sometimes less. In the last year, I have done this pretty much on a daily basis. I am VERY worried about the damage I am doing or have done to my liver and kidneys, due to the copious amounts of acetominophen I have been ingesting. In addition to this, I have for most of my life been a person who has taken a lot of Advil and Tylenol for various headaches and other aches and pains. How much Tylenol can one continually ingest before doing serious damage? Is there any way to tell if I HAVE done any damage, short of going to a doctor or emergency room for testing? I have done some web searches for things like liver/kidney damage, but have not had much luck finding out anything. I have had the flu for a week now, with fever, chills, sweating etc. It IS going around in my area, but I am afraid that it is NOT the flu, and it is something more serious. I do plan on trying to quit, this week when my meds run out. I really know I have to; I need to get back to life, and get a job before we go broke. I have lost 2 jobs in the last year due to this, and my wife is 9 weeks pregnant with our first child. It has just been so easy lately go get the medicine, as I have come up with a new "scam" that has worked great at the last 3 doctors I have gone to. In a sick way I am actually "proud" of myself for coming up with and successfully doing this scam. thank you all for your help.

[squirrel1970]

sorry to take another posting slot. my email is "***@****" if anyone would rather reply that way. this place is great, and I read stuff here every day that gives me hope. I would love to hear from any and every one of you. thanks again and god bless

[Thomas03]

The symptoms you're having could also be from Vic withdrawal. They're quite similar to the flu. Are you having any runs? WD from Vicodin almost always includes 24/7 runs for the first few days.

I'll let the doctor address the tylenol question. I will say that, while your consumption is high, it isn't nearly as high as many I know. If you can, get a blood panel run at your family doc. You don't have to tell him about all the Vics, just that you read something about tylenol affecting the liver and want the test for peace of mind.

In the meantime, start taking Milkthistle (from the health food store). It promotes liver healing and is used for that purpose in European medical settings. If you leave the liver alone, it frequently can heal itself. The Milkthistle would be a little insurance.

Thomas

[squirrel1970]

actually there is no withdrawl because i havent stopped taking it yet : )
but i do appreciate the post.

[ceriedwen5]

i was taking 10 a day easy,im gong through withdrawls as i wite this,yes i think your killing yourself,just as i was too.please get help.
berta

[Jones052]

Hi Thomas,
I found your recipe very interesting. I am currently debating a detox and WD plan. You sound very well informed and I always enjoy and appreciate the articulate. I've just today seen this site and don't know how to contact or post.

Is it appropriate to ask for an email ? ***@****

Thanks,
Dan

[mystere]

Thomas, in my humble opinion is the foremost expert in the area of opiate withdrawal that I have ever come across!  I'm married to a physician (An Orthopedic Surgeon, believe it or not) and he doesn't have a clue about opiate addiction much less the withdrawal process! I have been an expert at concealing my addiction to my friends and family. I myself have used the Thomas Recipe several times (unfortunately) and it is right on the mark! Thomas is a wonderful contributer to this forum! He has helped me tremendously!  My husband thinks that I catch an inordinate amount of that "flu bug"--(I run out of pills too early)--but that's another story--Keep posting, lurking, looking, or whatever--there are a lot of wonderful people here waiting-willing to help any way that they can!  Good Luck--Peace and Prayers to All--Mystere

[beccab]

i would just like to comment that you must think of your wife and child. Would it be fair for a baby to be born without a dad who passed and otherwise would have been healthy?
I don't want to be harsh but you have a moral obligation to your family

[bluecatchew]

Hi your reply caught my attention. I too am nototious for (running out early) My question being. Do you still have the flu type symptoms even with the Thomas recipe? Thanks for your time.

[mystere]

The severity of the withdrawal symptoms depend on how much you have been taking and for how long--However they are much easier to deal with using the Thomas Recipe--For example this last time for me the withdrawals were extremely mild!  I'm not really sure if that was a really good thing! Anyway if your ready to quit and bite the bullet this is the place to be!  There are many people here ready and willing to see you through it!  Good Luck!  It really is wonderful over here on "the other side"  Peace and Prayers--Mystere AKA New Orleans Lady

[ceriedwen5]

im wondering if you all can help me today?
tomorrow on march 25 tuesday im going in for surgery-da surgery,to have my left ovary removed.a cyst is on it the size of a plum.regarless im going through vicodin and perck withdrawl.this is the 4th day today.im not feeling to bad just flu like symptoms,no fever just got to ru to the bathroom and im sneezing allot.runny nose too.I did mention the opiate use to my doctor and he said not to worry about it.im just not sure.i do think the ovary made my excuses for the pills,so now what? i guess this is a good time to stop taking them,
berta
ps sorry about using your thread.no ther way i could get ths down.

[bluecatchew]

What is it like on the other side? Haven't been there in 6 years. My biggest deterent to quiting is the mental fog and the stinkin thinkin and the FATIGUE.... I have so much responsibility I need to be able to function if you know what I mean :) I have read so many people say they are still in a "FOG" 3-6 weeks afterwards. Any words of advice, encouragement, whatever. Thanks

[percsnomas]

What is it like on the other side????

FREEDOM!!!!
(I'm yelling it as loud as Mel Gibson in Braveheart)

Blue, i was on that seemingly endless treadmill, and scared to death of the thought of life without pills; cause after all didn't they make me funnier, a better-more confident employee, a better daddy-  cause i could get up in the middle of the night to tend to the screaming lit'l ones, energize me to see me through 4 moves in 3 years, etc???? NO
I certainly thought it at the time, but now that i've passed 7 months off percocet(was up to 20+/day, for several years), i wouldn't want to go back for all the tea in china.  I do think about where i was, just to remind me to stay strong; but i have to tell you, the "other side" is pretty f&*king incredible.
My wife couldn't be happier either, as she claims she has got her old (okay 41 aint so bad) husband back......and she finally is out of the long "dry spell" See opiates really do suck EVERYTHING out of you.
I think by picking up the ingredients of Mr. Thomas' Recipe(as you said), you will help yourself through that Fog period. It definately helped me.  I really started to feel better around the 3-4 week mark. I did a rapid taper over 13 days.  I've read lots about cravings also, and whether i'm an exception, i don't know.....all i know is i haven't craved them virtually from the start of my clean time.
Maybe cause i was soooooooooooo low????(you know that feeling your bottom discussion)
That is the number one reason, I continue to post,  I want to get the message out, that not only is getting clean possible, it is OH SO WORTH IT!!!!(plus the friends i've developed here aren't so bad either)
This place helped me reclaim my life, and it will do the same for you Blue!!!

Take Care Friend
percs

[mystere]

Mega Ditto's Percs--Couldn't have said it better myself-I found after the initial withdrawal symptoms were over the one thing I worried about was the fatigue and malaise.  How was I ever going to shower and get dressed much less take care of a day full of responsibilities?  I was skeptical about the L-Tyrosine and B-6 combo but I thought what the hell it couldn't hurt--Guess What--It works! Before I knew it I was up and beginning a new day without having to worry where my next Rx was going to come from.  Just like Percs said--FREEDOM--It is such a relief to to wake up in the morning and know you don't have to take a pill--There is also much to be said for the "One Day at a Time" Mantra--I have found that we addicts are rather an impatient lot.
It is like many before me have said on this forum IT DOES GET BETTER with each passing day!--Good Luck We're here when you need us--Peace & Prayers--mystere AKA N.O. Lady

[bluecatchew]

Thanks:) I needed the pep talk.
Percs, I am 41 also and we are certainly not old hehe.I am down from 4,20mg oxy a day to 1 20mg in the am and I am using the vicoprfen about every 4-6 hours for pain as I do have pain (issues)but know of the dangers in this med also :)

[riri]

I've been suffering from severe back pain and restless leg syndrome for a long time.  I have two bulging discs and a torn disc.  I've tried everything but surgery.  I take between 6 and 10 lortabs a day. (for a year and a half now) It scares me because I'm afraid I'm hurting my liver and kidneys.  I'm a 58 year old female.  I work full time at a paper mill.  I have an elderly mother and a daughter who depend on me finacilly and I really can't quit work.  I have tried not taking the meds and I can hardly function.  My doctor doesn't seem to be concerned.  I feel like if I can't get along without the drugs then I'm addicted.  I heard mention of Thomas's recipe.  Could I get a coy of that?  I also hate the fogginess side effect of the drug.  I don't know what to do.  riri

[riri]

I've been suffering from severe back pain and restless leg syndrome for a long time.  I have two bulging discs and a torn disc.  I've tried everything but surgery.  I take between 6 and 10 lortabs a day. (for a year and a half now) It scares me because I'm afraid I'm hurting my liver and kidneys.  I'm a 58 year old female.  I work full time at a paper mill.  I have an elderly mother and a daughter who depend on me finacilly and I really can't quit work.  I have tried not taking the meds and I can hardly function.  My doctor doesn't seem to be concerned.  I feel like if I can't get along without the drugs then I'm addicted.  I heard mention of Thomas's recipe.  Could I get a coy of that?  I also hate the fogginess side effect of the drug.  I don't know what to do.  riri

[riri]

I've been suffering from severe back pain and restless leg syndrome for a long time.  I have two bulging discs and a torn disc.  I've tried everything but surgery.  I take between 6 and 10 lortabs a day. (for a year and a half now) It scares me because I'm afraid I'm hurting my liver and kidneys.  I'm a 58 year old female.  I work full time at a paper mill.  I have an elderly mother and a daughter who depend on me finacilly and I really can't quit work.  I have tried not taking the meds and I can hardly function.  My doctor doesn't seem to be concerned.  I feel like if I can't get along without the drugs then I'm addicted.  I heard mention of Thomas's recipe.  Could I get a coy of that?  I also hate the fogginess side effect of the drug.  I don't know what to do.  riri

[riri]

I've been suffering from severe back pain and restless leg syndrome for a long time.  I have two bulging discs and a torn disc.  I've tried everything but surgery.  I take between 6 and 10 lortabs a day. (for a year and a half now) It scares me because I'm afraid I'm hurting my liver and kidneys.  I'm a 58 year old female.  I work full time at a paper mill.  I have an elderly mother and a daughter who depend on me finacilly and I really can't quit work.  I have tried not taking the meds and I can hardly function.  My doctor doesn't seem to be concerned.  I feel like if I can't get along without the drugs then I'm addicted.  I heard mention of Thomas's recipe.  Could I get a coy of that?  I also hate the fogginess side effect of the drug.  I don't know what to do.  riri

[riri]

I've been suffering from severe back pain and restless leg syndrome for a long time.  I have two bulging discs and a torn disc.  I've tried everything but surgery.  I take between 6 and 10 lortabs a day. (for a year and a half now) It scares me because I'm afraid I'm hurting my liver and kidneys.  I'm a 58 year old female.  I work full time at a paper mill.  I have an elderly mother and a daughter who depend on me finacilly and I really can't quit work.  I have tried not taking the meds and I can hardly function.  My doctor doesn't seem to be concerned.  I feel like if I can't get along without the drugs then I'm addicted.  I heard mention of Thomas's recipe.  Could I get a coy of that?  I also hate the fogginess side effect of the drug.  I don't know what to do.  riri

[BBow]

Help me please!! I have been taking VICODEN for several yrs. Need help feeling very low, This is a big secret in my life, need to know how to quit, becoming very depressed and have not quit yet, even though I have run out. So I'. already depressed will it get worse without the pills......very bad thoughts

HELP ANYONE

[Jul07Asker]

You posted on an old thread, but I too kept my Vicodin habit a secret for close to 20 years.  It's weird to say that now cause it doesn't seem right, it probably was really on and off for that span.
As the postings said above yours this guy Thomas has a recipe that helps detox, you can find it on some of the other postings, and while I myself go through my withdrawal and have my own questions, I can say that there are some extremely supportive non-judgemental people here.  So, let it be known that your secret is out, and now you can release that kind of shame and move forward.  If you want a new life without worrying about someone finding something out about you, you can do that the moment you make that decision.  Stay tuned in to this board and keep talking and you'll make it moment, by moment.  All that is really true is this moment now.  Not the past and not the future, so live this second, this moment and be someone who makes you proud.
Good luck.  You can do!

[beachtowel]

You forgot to mention another part of your body that is very important your brain.........
Your doing damage to your thought process and emotional part of your brain, some will be permanent.......
And yes you are doing damage to your liver..........

[marcatj]

... you may have really scared this person.  you don't know how much or how long they were taking, so you don't know if there is any permanant damage...

i know how well you mean and how much good you do, but if that were me and i got that post from you, it might make me toss up my hands and say "well forget then.  i'm already done in."

i say this to you with the utmost respect.. just be careful, k?

-mj

[beachtowel]

She asked a question about her kidneys and liver........I answered her truthfully........

I also added the brain which is defenatly effected which was 100% the truth...........

I took her post as a need for total honesty..........

One of the things about recovery the biggest thing is honesty...............
Sugar coating is a way of the addict..........

With out total honesty recovery is not possible...........

by the way she should be scard........like any other person here who is abusing pills or and other drug.......everything goes through the liver............
In the addiction classes I have been taking over the past two years suggest damage to the brain is inevitable whether or not she has the damage I have no way of knowing but I will tell you this is an addict uses for a long period of time there will be some permanent and that is a scientific fact.....

If you would like me to do the research to substantiate my post I will if you doubt my facts......

But I do understand your post and will take it into consideration........
I never post to hurt believe it or not sometimes I try to wake people up..........
and sometimes to do that Blunt Honesty is the meds.........

[beachtowel]

One of the specific damages I am eluding  is PAWS.............

Most people here think all addicts have or go through PAWS.........

That is not true most suffer from common  symtoms from drug use......certain aspects of PAWS are irreversible or take years to recover from.........

Marcatj another thing if you have read my posts I am consistant and also speak from both formal and informal experience.........

37 years I was a full blown addict.........intense behavior treatment programs and inpatient drug rehabs along with two years of formal training and education is where I gather my information in my posts........I don't guess or post if I am not 100% sure of my facts..........

I hope you might understand better now where I am coming from............
I would like to get to know people here a little better and hope to that some will get to know the true me............

[tobybear]

I feel bad. I in day 2 or 3. cannot sleep very well.My brain is the least of my worries. Today anyway. the muscle aches and pains. Hurt the most.  by the way what is PAWS.  

Thanks
Tobybear

[marcatj]

I do know your background, and as I said I have alot of respect for what you normally have to say, and where you've been.  I'm not knociking or second quessing your knowledge.. I still stand by what I said.  But this is not a showdown... I am coming from the heart - from the human side, from an empathic side.  And all I was saying is if you do not know for a fact she has done permanant damage to her brain (which Beach - you really don't..,) it's something to be considered before saying.  

Some people need hope to move forward.

As I said, were it me, I might have thrown my hands up and said why stop?  I'm already brain damaged... and we don't know that Beach.

I guess we will agree to disagree...

[marcatj]

... you may be gettin' lost in the shuffle down here, doll.

you might wanna create a new post.. (if I knew much about PAWS I'd tell ya!)

-mj

[dezyner5]

I've been using vicodin for way too many years. I feel like it is time to get off the rollercoaster addiction ride. I have heard that you are the expert on fighting withdrawals. What is your recipe. I'd like to have a fighting chance here. It's my first try at getting clean.
thanks,
Rick

[FLaddict]

Hun, Thomas posted on this thread in 2003 I don't think he will be answering you.. However. the recipe is all over this site.. just do a search for it.. Also you posted on a thread that was started 4 years ago. If you want support I suggest you post or add to a more recent post like one from today.. that way someone will actualy respond..

[dezyner5]

thanks...I am not thinking very clearly right now!

[FLaddict]

No problem.. just wanted to point you in the right direction.. It happens all the time.. Just post a new question and introduce yourself and what you are struggling with... We will be happy to help you.

[Savas]

Well, hopefully he stopped and is fine and that's why he hasn't been around for years. I'd say the liver is a resilient thing. How many addicts on this board have had their liver functions checked out and had them be fine? Probably quite a few. Heck, it also has some incredible healing properties. I had a test done a year ago and was told I was in for some serious hard times coming up based on what they saw.
My recent test showed it's fine. So... I don't quite know but to make of that, but it's one big worry I can now toss in the recycle bin. I was told that I probably just healed, although the doctor was fairly surprised himself. Makes me wonder if he made a mistake back then.

And God, I hope everyone who says PAWS can be permanent is wrong. Maybe I'm getting older and more like my father but I find I get impatient with people complaining about aches and pains and am taking more of a "tough it out" attitude. Which is ironic, since I'm incredibly childish about pain myself. Or was. Hopefully not anymore.

[dkl62]

can someone tell me what this Thomas's recipe is. I have no idea....thanks

[Ga Guy]

I posted it earlier today...look down the postsings for ones with my name. It will come up with Thomas Recipe in the post header. If you can't find it..post again and I'll post it for you.

[P TO THE C]

please let me know what the Thomas Recipe is. Is it about the kidney or liver supplement? thank you.

[FLaddict]

Use the search engine on this site to find the Thomas recipe... its posted here frequently..