Answers Please..Suboxone..

Yesterday I asked my husband who has been on the Suboxone for 3 weeks when they were going to start tapering off he was on 16mg a day.. He said they moved him up to 24mg a day... Will someone please explain how long this is going to be like this... I read alot on here most of you seem to want to taper off after a couple of weeks.. To me he still looks very high and seems to be enjoying this drug maybe too much.. I dont know..Please  and Thank you. ~Casper~

[Dog55]

Whoever "they" are should be slapped. He should be taking much less, not more. 16mg is way too much and 24mg is certainly too much.

[HenryS354]

Wow casper.....  Typical starting doses are around 16mgs, the reason for this is that 16mgs seems to be the dose where Buprenorphine has the maximum blocking effect of other opiates, as our first few weeks are our most vulnerable.

Going up to 24mgs unless he wasnt being held by the medication seems very strange indeed.  

If he seems high then he is either on too high of a dose or he is supplementing with other opiates.  He may not feel high due to the blocking effect, but the drugs have the same effect minus the euphoria.

If you dont mind posting what his DOC was, how much he used and how long he used for, that would help us out greatly.

As far as him getting off the sub, it takes a few weeks for the neuro chemical changes in the brain to take place.... I would give it some time.

This is just another post that motivates me to finish my last two years of medical school so I can get out there and prescribe sub the RIGHT way.

Best of luck,
Henry

[avik7]

i abused sub, but i got it from a friend. then i decided to taper in 8 days w two pills. if u take to much u can get high off it..it seems like a rather high dose

[casper_47]

Henry , thanks for the info.. I was just so sure this was not right.. I asked him how come he was put on more after the 3 weeks and he said because the Doctor said I needed it.. A little more on his hystory he has been addicted to everything from vic to heroin for the past 30 years our entire marriage.. This is his last chance to clean up.. I cant take another addiction..

His Doctor is out of Highland Illinois,  
He has been going for 3 weeks
Started 16mg a day
Yesterday upped to 24mgs..

Any replys will be greatly appreciated...
Thanks Casper

[christos24]

going to 24 mgs is not strange at all, the studied and researched highest ceiling effect dose is 32 mgs and even that is not a hundred percent for sure. I was on 32mgs for over 6 months and then started to taper, but then started up again with opiates due to a fracture. I know people who are on even larger doeses of suboxonea than 32 mgs, but honestly 24 mgs is about as high as you should go and still experience the agonist efffects. Going higher and higher will cause the suboxone to act more like an anti-opiate. Generally the lower the dose the actually more the opiate effect you have but most ppl  neeed to go higher than 16 mgs and then after that it may not work. It all depends on how large and long youre addiction is. The sub did work for me for awhile, but eventually i needed something else. I am now on methadone, at 50 mgs, and its working well for me, alot better than the suboxone, but everyone is different. Some people are on suboxone and it works miracles for them, but I cant stress enough that everyone is different. I also cannot stress enough that 6 weeks is not that long and you cant put a time limit on how his treatment should go. Its all  dependent on how he is doing, how bad his addiction was, and if its working properly. He also needs to want to be off of opiates all together otherwise it wont work at all. I personally know I will be on a maintenance program for more than a year. Some people stay on it for the rest of their lives and some ppl stay on it for a few weeks. it sounds like youre boyfriend will need to be on it for longer than 6 weeks possiblly 6 months to a year, just to be safe. Also remember that the taper process takes al ong time as well. Youre boyfriend is doing fine, he is just trying to adjust. Stay strong for him, dotn pressure him at all about getting off it will only make it worse. Just amke sure eh also has cousneling and goes to meetings along with the sub. That is something crucial in recovery. You are doing a great job supporting him so keep it up, jsut stand by his side and make sure him and the doctor are on the same terms along with you. Wish him the best for me and if you ahve any other questions or concerns have faith that you can get honest answers here..

[gizzy32]

i talked to you last night and you sound like the most patient women i have ever met. im sorry but 30 years of this and your still trying to help him. i understand your frustration and lack of faith in him. only going by what you told me, but i do think he is just using this as an easy way out. suboxone works for those who want to quit, not an easy fix. you said he still looks high and turned down rehab or any help. to me that is not someone that wants to be clean. im assuming this is his last chance so make sure the games are over. i pray he finally sees the light, you can only do so much. take care of yourself and keep posting. al anon might be something that would be good for you to attend. good luck.

[mr.lucky66]

You do sound like a nice patient woman and he sounds like he's taking the easy way out. He sounds like he's on the sub revolving door program. Open ended and could last for a year or more while the docs profit. I have seen too many peple suffer after long term sub. It seem to be great for short term but is untested for long use. all the best

[casper_47]

I want to thank you both for responding... Every answer is something to think about.. Yes I have been patient I did this because of our children our last one turned 18 this year and I again told him I was going to move he didnt believe me and I left for Florida for a couple of months... He begged and pleaded everyday for my return on the promise he was going to quit.. Well today was his third NA meeting.. I am so trying to be behind him..  I sure am glad that I found this forum it really has helped me to open my eyes a little more.. No I have not been blind for the last 30 years.. I was raised by an alcoholic mothere and no father... So I wanted to make sure I was done with my job.. My kids.. Thanks for talking to me it so helps.. luv to all Casper

[gizzy32]

you are doing everything you can right now, he should be very grateful. happy to hear he went to an N/A meeting again, they do help. since he knows this is last chance maybe he would be willing to take a look on this site for support. it is so helpful with a lot of support as you can see. after 30 years of use, it's a lot more than the drugs and much can be learned as to why he uses. he is lucky to have you.

[tommm70]

Well the high feeling will not last long. And as someone stated, Sub is a partial agonist, so the more you take, the less high you will feel.
Sub. for me had me very nausious, so I hated taking it!
Also, the longer someone stays on Sub, the harder the W/Ds will be when they come off. Tapering down to a very small amount will make things a little easier, but there are some long term effects that just cannot be avoided.
It is so good to hear he is going to meetings, and hopefully he will be ready to taper soon.
Have you read the Suboxone part 1, and part 2 articles in the most viewed articles section at the bottom right of the page? I highly encourage everyone to read this information.
I wish you the best!

[cheerios]

I have been on sub for 4 years since I have abused every opiate for 18yrs.  My doc thinks that a person like me will benefit to stay on sub to avoid all possible relapses.  Honestly, I cannot even think of taking an opiate anymore.  Those days are gone plus I know they won't work.  I am taking a small amount, but since I have taken them so long, a real opiate won't ever work on me again.  That is GOOD.  Yes I need between 1-3mg a day for maintenance, but it's worth it.  I used to get high on it in the beginning and loved this "treatement" but like one poster said, the high is short-lived.  Soon he will just need the sub to feel "normal".  And I totally feel normal - I have never missed one day of work, never get high for like the past 3.5 years off the stuff, and have not experienced depression.  But everyone is different.  And I have another devil to fight.  I wish you the best of luck.  My dh is also patient and I love him so much for it.  But men and woman are different (I'm a woman).

Hope this works-but reality will hit him soon - don't worry - he will be acting normal soon, trust me

[mr.lucky66]

Wouldn't you be better off on methadone? If you had an emergency where you had to have a narcotic what would you do?

[Dog55]

I agree that sub makes everything feel normal, and I am grateful I was able to get on it. But aren't you concerned about side effects and the possibility of what will happen if you need painkillers for some future problem, such as an accident or illness?

[worried878]

I would be concerned..call me crazy but this just seems to happen ...doctors over prescribing this med.....i find it strange...researched it and found out there is very minimal education the MD must receive...can be done online in a matter of a few hours...unlees he was injecting heroin i would be totally confused....what was his DOC/drug of choice and daily dose?  Is the goal long term or is it just short term for detox ....he needs to stay safe and always move forward

[cheerios]

I thought about this too.  In fact, I did have to have surgery and stayed on my dosage and the anestesia worked fine and knocked me out.  The morphine given for pain did not work and I requested 2x the normal amount and finally found some relief.  I did not go back to the sub for 24hours after taking viocidin which did nothing for relief of pain.  So I asked for non-narc meds and guess what, they did manage to control my pain.  I would never ever have thought so before.  If I were seriously injured I would stop the sub and just take opiates but it takes about 3-5 days before you feel them (I assume) - luckily no major accidents to report.  The doc says that maintenance outweighs the risk of me relapsing.  I'm not saying that I want to stay on it forever (hence why I lurk here) but for now I'm ok with it.  I will come off though eventually when I get sick of it.

Thank you for your concerns....
Cheerios

[mr.lucky66]

Isn't it expensive to stay on sub?

[Tiffrose_2626]

Can your family doc. prescribe Sub or do you have to go to an addiction clinic? I am so scared to ask my family doc. for help. I am worried he will say there is nothing he can do, and I am worried he will contact CPS because I have children

[mr.lucky66]

don't ask him and risk it. chances are he can't prescibe in anyway

[worried878]

turntohelp ******* has a list of doctors who can prescribe sub by area...ur doctor may not even be licensed to prescribe sub so asking would be a waste of time if he cant....sub is a last resort....after long term use it can turn o u and make u feel depressed just as ur doc did...if u can not quit on ur own and have tried several times...it could be an option...u r still on a strong narcotic tho and ur receptors will pay with depression in the long run...but in some cases it is better than the alternative of using and even tho expensive...not as expensive as buying drugs off the street by a long shot....and u can function better....using it to detox for short term can help ease or even skip the physical wds....quitting is 99% mental tho...so when ur 10-21 days r up on the sub...u still have to face the reality of being sober and living life clean...aftercare is the key.....if u r afraid of feeling like u have the flu for a week or so...it is an expensive way to avoid it as it is the small part in the scheme of things....the physical wds are such a dinky part of this whole mess....about 600 bux here in the south  to skip the flu....dont know...meetings are free

[marcatj]

everyone's dose and treatment are different.

some use it for short term/detox, some longer term/maintenance.

if he's struggled for years, maybe a longer term/maintenance plan is better. for him.

at the end of the day, only he can know. some of us have stayed on a low low dose for a longer term, adn it has been helpful.

but again - only he will know.  he should really listen to his body, see if that dose feels right; and again - if this is something he has failed at a number of times (quitting,) personally, i don't think a low dose maintenance on Sub is a bad thing.  it has helped me get my life back.

it should not be, however, the first "course of treatment."

just my opinion...

and a 2nd opinion (from a Doctor) could never hurt him. if it's a good doc!! REFERRALS if you can...

good luck...
mj

[marcatj]

btw - a friend of mine was on 24 mg. as well. started on that, and stayed on it for awhile.

again - everyone is different.  there is no hard an fast rule.

personally, for me, that would have been too high.  for my friend, it seemed to work very well.

in my opinion, if you (and he) trust this doctor, then let things play out...

btw - you don't get "high" from Sub. at all.

[marcatj]

and lastly... after 30 years of drug abuse, i REALLY don't think this seems high.

but I think he has to go meetings, or therapy, or an addiction specialist who COUNSELS -  SOMETHING - some additional help to get to the root of his issues, in addition to the Sub.

again - after 30 years, this could very well be what it takes to get him clean.

[marcatj]

i believe on the Suboxone website you can find a list of Doctors in your area who can prescribe it.

you do have to have a special license to prescribe it. ideally, i would suggest it be an addiction specialist too, who will also help you get to the core issues.

don't be scared... i won't say it's for everyone, but for some of us, it has really helped.

good luck, sweety...
mj

[mr.lucky66]

Yes it has been helpful to some(sub) but has been overperscribed for periods too long in my opinion. I think for maintenence, methadone is better in lower doses. An addiction specalist could be helpfull but the problem is md's don't spend enough time with patients to even get to know them. Too much perscribing and too little talking. all the best

[casper_47]

Thanks for all the positive feedback... Yesterday I went to the suboxone doctor with him .. She was glad to see that I was there... Upon questioning him he told her that I was upset because he wasnt taking it right... She said well mr. greer you think you can treat yourself... or do you want to listen to your doctor and your wife... Your body is not ready to come off the drug... and you need counseling... Well he agreed and has decided to stay on for a 3 to 6 month regimine.... He has been lying about his medication and his meetings... I can only hope that he sees the light and gets it together... trying to save 30 years.. Thanks to you all...~~~ Casper

[casper_47]

I have no idea what you are talking about... He does have a suboxone doctor..

[nursegirl6572]

I hope your husband realizes what he has and what he stands to lose.  I give you a LOT of credit...I cannot imagine a whole marriage like that.  :0(

Good for you for going with him....he cannot lie that way....did the sub doc say she increased him?  I'm guessing no?

Best of luck...I sincerely hope he is successful.....for your life together.

[marcatj]

good luck sweety...

i hope he "mans up" and does the right thing...

again - while Sub may not be right for some, after 30 years, with that and counseling, if he sticks with it - it could be a very good thing.

it certainly has helped a number of us.

sending prayers your way.....

:)
mj

[casper_47]

Thanks again for all the encouragement... Yes 30 years is a lifetime...I just had to wait untill my kids were raised to do something... He did attend a meeting last night...yea!
I am hoping there is hope this time...~~~ Casper

[mr.lucky66]

I know detox sounds hard but it's only the very beginning. I don't know if these docs are doing the right thing with these long sub treatments. A lot of addicts are going to be kicking and sreaming when they start to feel withdrawls. The real work beginns after detox. The hard part isn't getting off the drugs, it's ataying off the drugs. Doctors can't help much with that. all the best to your husband

[louis85]

your family doc can give it to you

[casper_47]

I wasnt looking where to get it he has been on it for 3 weeks.. And NO your family Doctor cant perscribe it to you... You have to go to a suboxone Doctor... And he is...
You also have to find a pharmacy that carries it... Thanks for the advice.. But it wasnt what I was looking for.. lol.. Hope you are doing well~~Casper

[marcatj]

Casper - again, I just wanted to say it sounds to me like your husband, and you, are taking the best route possible now in treating his addiction.

I know my Sub doc (pain/addiction specialist) is an amazing man.  Never has he just given me drugs (Sub) and not spent a minimum of a 1/2 hr to an hour with me each visit, talking about EVERYTHING - and really tries to help me get to the root of any issues I may have.

As well as very caringly treats my pain.  While looking at the entire picture...

There's some really good ones out there.  Sounds like you found one.

I wish you both the best of luck, dear...

warmly,
mj

[casper_47]

Thanks for your reply... My husband has not been to a doctor in so many years ... and is finally looking at his health.. He is in pretty bad shape... He has severe pain on the left side of his chest and under his arm ... we are waiting for those results along with a liver function test... I am trying to look at the whole picture.. for him for us for his children... I hope you are doing good..and have a great day...~~Casper