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Back pain - use or abuse norco

I have suffered back pain for 20 years. My profession is commercial hvac work. Several years ago, I was having big time issues. I had an MRI showing damaged discs, stenosis and arthritis in my back and arthritis in both knees. I started with meloxicam for the arthritis which is a godsend. I also started norco 7.5 as needed 30 a month. I have had several spinal injections which worked but my job would undo the repair. Surgery is not an option right now because it would put me out of work and all 3 doctors said that my work would undo theirs. I'm in pain management which I go every month for review. I was on butrans 20 and norco 7.5 twice a day. The pain was somewhat manageable but I was riding the depression train. I had a RFA done which seemed to help a lot. I asked to get off the butrans and they said ok and upped the norco to 4x a day as needed. The pain has been manageable but the depression varies day to day. I decided to take a break from the norco to see if the depression would change. I should mention that I have been on Wellbutrin for a year after I suffered major depression last year before I got into pain management. I have been off the norco for 4 days and dealing with the withdraw ok. Runs, poor sleeping, stomac pains and major back pain. The depression is getting better. Here is my problem. On norco minimal back pain. Off norco, depression seems to be getting better. I know I'm not the only one with this problem and I would love some help from anyone. Sorry for the long post but my background is important. Thank you and this forum has been a great support system since I am doing this alone. P.s. day one really sucked.
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Avatar universal
My husband has back pain and is taking norco.  He says that if he didn't have pain he wouldn't take the pills.  He gets deffensive when I try to discuss the fact that I think he is addicted. Now that you have been off the pills how is your back pain?  I have read stories that the pills can make you think you are still in pain and things like that.  Just curious if your pain is less or more than before you needed to take the pills in the first place.
Concerned wife
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Avatar universal
Great job! You have a determined plan, and I'm so glad to hear that the depression is subsiding.
Keep up the outstanding work.
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Avatar universal
Hey Congrats on your clean time and I do think you're doing the right thing to see where you really are pain wise and it's been masked by the natcotics for so long. And if your depression is better without the natcotics then you may have your answer. After your off for a while and see where your pain levels are really at then you can seek non narcotic meds/ways to help you live. Hang in there as I think it'll take a while to see where your levels are at. Congrats again, you have a positive attitude which helps alot!
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Avatar universal
I got 8..... Not continuous but it's a start and getting up keeps getting easier. The depression is lessening.  I had just talked with my shrink 2 weeks ago about adding abilify to my Wellbutrin. She gave me a script but I read more about it and chose not to fill it. Pills, pills and more pills. We have a pill for that. Really? It's a vicious cycle especially when my doctors mean well. They all share my information but no one has suggest getting off the meds to see what may happen. 6 days norco free and 85% depression free. Hmmmm.  I'm not a rocket scientist but.....
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Avatar universal
Sorry for the confusion, I knew you were talking about 8 hrs sleep.
Take care and have a good night
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Avatar universal
I am 5 days in. I'm talking about 8 hours of continuous sleep. Please?
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Avatar universal
Sorry about all that, I somehow missed that you are actually a day ahead of me in HELL week. I do understand the depression, even though I'm not being treated. It is the main reason I need to get out of house. Major headaches last couple days, but I also felt so good this week, I decided to quit dipping (chewing tobacco) after 20 years. I was thinking my headaches were due more to that, but it could be the norco wd.
Our bodies will respond as they should if we just keep battling, I just know it.
Heres wishing you a good night sleep.
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Avatar universal
We are very much alike. I have worked everyday during my detox. I am separated from my wife which was the beginning of my alcohol sobriety. I can't take ibuprofen or really any other OTC pain med because I have high liver enzymes and I am on meloxicam for arthritis. Today has been weird for me. I woke up after 5 hours of sleep feeling great. No real depression symptoms which I haven't done in 15 months. The days varied but today was the first day I woke up like old times. Way cool. But I have been feeling my blood pressure rise and tightness in my chest this evening. My physical condition is rough at best. Back, hands and knees feel like a front is coming through. I am also getting a bad headache this evening. Maybe it's from work today, I'm not sure. It feels good to have one depression free day and I would trade the pain free days for one day like today. I think I'm going to take a Xanax tonight instead of an ambien. 8 would feel great! That's my mantra until I get one night of 8 hours uninterrupted.
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Avatar universal
Welcome, and your doing great.
We have similar stories with the bad backs and the norco. I will tell you tomorrow will be day 7 for me sober and I took from 4 to 7 normally.
Because our dosage levels were similar I really wanted to set the stage for you and what is coming.
Luckily the w/ d symptoms have been less for me. If your bored just read my story from 5/28, day one off norco, here we go.
I started off just like you, needed the pills for pain. However I then became depressed/mopey/moody if I tried to take less. I also felt kind of flighty when I was on the pills, but still better than the chronic pain.
After such a long time on the pills my dosage needed to increase to keep me pain free, especially in the morning, ugh!!!!
Unfortunately I started to lose control after 5 years on norco, and started telling myself I needed them for all social, leisure, physical activities.
I finally admitted to my wife that I think I had a problem, and had to stop.
I have never bought pills from anyone, or stole or anything like that, just took as prescribed by my doctor, and took them to fast when at my worst.

In order for me to be successful I had to have my wife get everything out of the house. Are you ready to commit to that?
I think the temptation will be to great if you still have access, it was for me.

If so than be ready for the following
Stomach problems-gotta have the immodium
Head and body aches- I think eventually will go away but not easy, the mind always tells me take just one.
I have really had cold like symptoms not flu. Lots of sneezing and coughing for this guy.
You must ensure you are following the Thomas recipe or something close to it. I didn't follow it to the letter but have used Boost on couple days appetite went away. Lots of Gatorade, good multivitamins, ibuprofen, cold/flu pills only a couple of times.
Sleep has been touch and go for me even with ambien so be prepared, it really the restless legs, and anxiousness that keeps me awake.
Also lots of hot showers/baths.

I think you said you used to be active, well me too. It's tough but make yourself go outside, take a walk, push yourself a bit and the days will go by so much easier. I actually golfed 18 holes on day four of detox, which is usually the worst day for everyone. Not bragging at all, I just felt good on day four and was sick of looking at the walls in my house. The next day I was sore, but it was worth it to me.
You can and will do this if you commit to it 110%.
I wish you luck and please keep referring to this forum. It is so full of hope, great tips, inspiration, and love for people just like us, from people just like us.
If not for continually posting and reading on this site, I would have absolutely failed in my attempt to get clean.
Good luck and best wishes!
Bones
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Avatar universal
I have tried 6-7 antidepressants and wound up with Wellbutrin 150xr. I have not heard of any WD but I have not looked yet.
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2107676 tn?1388973859
I am on Effexor and it does the same thing when I forget to take one.
I don't even know if it is working for my depression.  Once I get clean from the percocets, I would like to slowly taper off of the effexor.  I hear that is miserable too.  The brain zaps are awful and I really feel sick when I forget to take it.  
I was on Paxil originally and didn't experience anything like that when I switched from it.  
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Avatar universal
So true. I tried cymbalta which was supposed to do it all. That did crazy stuff to me. Detoxing from that was a completely different experience than I have ever felt. It gave me brain zaps for 7-10 days. Very painful and I was only on it for over a month.
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2107676 tn?1388973859
It's such a vicious circle.  Do we live in pain or do we live in sadness and anxiety?  Tough choice.  Gee, I know.  Maybe they could come up with a pain killer that wasn't addictive and didn't ruin our lives in the process.  One that you didn't need more and more of to relieve the pain.  
I guess what we need are more doctors that have actually experienced this problem because unless you experience it, I don't think you can ever understand it.
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Avatar universal
When I say addicted to melaxicam and Crestor, I mean that it works as directed without unwanted side effects. If you asked me to quit, I couldn't because it helps by doing what it was designed to do and minimal side effects. Pain meds when used as directed produce their intended effect, relief from pain. My problem is the unwanted side effects. For me depression and anxiety. For others, stealing from pharmacies or people to feed their high or chasing that high. I haven't felt that tingle in many years but I have received pain relief. I hate my side effects but I also hate the pain. I use to be very active. Played soccer and worked out at the gym 3-5 days a week. Getting older is a challenge but the pain is more limiting. I have a physically demanding job so the pain meds give me back a more physical life but the depression blows. I need to see where I am at pain wise. The pain meds maybe masking my true pain level. The RFA may have been the bomb. Only detoxing will give me an informed decision. And as far as dumping your issues, I was told we are here for each other, I don't care if you stubbed your toe and you want to vent. I'm here to listen and I appreciate being listened to as well. So please dump away if you want to. And to " notme", yes I have not stopped working. I am working today as well. This is the heavy workload season for me. I wish I had detoxed in feb or march when work was slow. Heavy lifting and ladders do not promote good back health. But this is my hand. And as for the sleep thing, ambien helps. I just wish for a straight 8 and a solid BM. Santa are you listening? Easter bunny? Lucky Charms? Thanks for all the encouragement. It is much appreciated. Did I say day 5 is here. Where is the group I can join for long posting recovery?
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2079321 tn?1333662977
Good morning. My back injury was 15 years ago. I used pain meds 6+yrs awesome you were able to get yourself to work. I was able to take 5 days off. No way I could Have went to work. And you're sleeping, hope you have a good day today. Great job!
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Avatar universal
And later today a lot more members will post you. I promise. I just have my laptop on thru the night. Then you might not see me on the boards for awhile. I haven't left you. Just remeber I'm sick. These shots make me sick like a chemo patient. I hate hate them. I get so cold. And I'm in Alabama. So its hot. But I will freeze in 90 degrees. It's like a weird flu. Not like detoxing. But kinda. Sorry to dump my problems on you....I'm a big girl. And I ll be ok. This is my last injectable. Or shot. Maybe this one won't do me in. Last week I didn't even stand up.
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Avatar universal
Good morning. I'm.glad you slept. I did not. None. Nadda. But again different story.

Pick up some Imodium. And alieve will help your back to some degree. When we stop taking pain pills pain levels go up for about two weeks. Then level off....and no your not addicted to melexam. Or crestor. They don't work the same way. Tylonol and Motrin will help some.... Sorry to hear your back hurts.

And no my not sleeping isn't related to withdrawls. I'm taking injectables for ms. This is the last one...that's why I'm not sleeping. I'm uber sick.
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Avatar universal
Well, I guess 5 hours of sleep is better that 4. Day 5 for me and it seems easier mentally to wake up and get out of bed except for my back pain. I'm still feeling the physical withdraw. I never knew a solid BM would be something to be excited about. I've got to work today which I think is helping with the psychological withdraw by keeping my mind busy. My body especially my back don't agree. Is there a non opiate pain med that works? I know that meloxocam works wonders for arthritis but I have been told that severe pain has one type of relief and that is opiates. I could live with addiction to opiates if the depression didn't get so bad. I know I'm addicted to meloxocam and Crestor but that is ok. I don't have the side effects. Just rambling this morning I guess. Ideas?
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Avatar universal
Good night. I'll check with you tomorrow
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Avatar universal
My 4 hours of sleep is calling. I will be back tomorrow with an update. Thanks everyone for your support and good night.
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Avatar universal
Thanks, it mostly did. The difference is the depression seems to be getting better since I've been clean. Hence my original problem. Norco= limited pain and depression. No norco = pain and minimal depression. I think. 4 days seems hardly fair to come to a conclusion.
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Avatar universal
If your on day four you've got this thing licked. At your level easy. So if you think this is hard. It gets worst. Like drinking......try mine on for size. I was at two sixty megs of oxycontin. 60mgs// twice a day. With two 15. So that's like 14 or more norcos a day. A day. Or more. And I am 81 days free. It was h e l l......ibdont want a repeat. I basically beat heroin. It was that bad. And I took way more than prescribed. How I even drove my car baffles me. And knock on wood....I never ever crashed. Some days I'd pop four or five of those. And whew. I'm lucky to be talking to you.
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Avatar universal
Also I'm older than my twenty year old and have problems writing it all out...if you were sitting in the room with me. Is expain it so much easier. But I'm trying.
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Avatar universal
And none are helping?? Wow that's too bad. My inversion table saves me. I have bad bad knees. And get backaches. I try to swim every other day. Strech those muscles. And I would have stayed in the Jacuzzi til I was kicked out or passed out durring my detox. I was a wreck. But if you knew my story you'd understand. But this is your story not mine. So I will help you the best I can. If all I can do is cheer you on or give as much info as I can.... So let's start with how these opiates work and why depression is to blame when quitting. And no Im not a head shrinker. I didn't stay in school for eight years....I'm as messed up as you. I'm just pro active. Or if I'm not I fall down.....just so you know. But I know all about these pills. Ask me anything. And sorry if I'm teasing a lot tonight. I finally feel human again. But that's for another time.

Opiates.....readers digest version. Reading will pur you to sleep. Beware.
Opiates work on the central nervous system. In our brains. Our brains turn the opiates into two chemicals. Mostly dopimiine. Dopimine is key in feeling good. Key. That's why when we first take a pain pill we feel warm and fuzzy inside. Our brains love dopimine. Also we produce dopimine when we fall in love...get excited...about anything we love to do. Shopping for some hunting rollercoasters etc. Get the jest??

When we take pain pills. Or opiates. Our brains change. The brain looks for the pill to feel good. To feel normal. Because were altering our receptors.....well after awhile we forget how to make or reconginze dopimiine. We rely on the pill. No pill no dopimine.....fast toward.....say you are used to two norcos a day.......for six months...now tolerance grows. So you go to doctor and say these arnt working......he adjusts you to more. Or you've taken more on your own. Doesn't matter......your introducing more dopimine.

Meanwhile your brain is changing. A lot. Nerve endings. Receptors. The list goes on. Your brain will create more pain pathways. We cover them up with more and more opiates......tolerance is growing all the time. Depression can set in too...

Well one day you get tired of taking the pill. Your brain says where's my chemicals?? I want them right now......this is withdralwls...not fun. Right?? That's what your experincing. Withdrawals.....your brain has to regroup reset and learn to make more dopimine. Also saratonin.....but that's different.seratonin keeps you calm. Sleep. And such.

We have depleted our body of these chemicals. Only time will heal. Hence depression. I ask you to ask your doctor on all of it. Or read books. I have lots ans lots of books. But did that help??
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