Back surgery / Fusion

[Chezz]

Good morning Everyone!

I have been up half the night thinking about the iminent possibility of back surgery.
Has anybody had fusion done? And if so, did it get rid of the radiating pain and problems associated with it?

Yesterday was one of the hardest days for me. When my new doc said she thinks it is a very good possibility that I will need surgery, it scared  the h%$$ out of me.
I go in monday for another test. Which will help her determine it.
Thanks,
Chezz

[CinCee]

I know others who've had positive outcomes with fusion.  The pain was solved for my sister until she got pregnant, which I doubt you'll do.
Cervical fusions are less successful.

[percsnomas]

Bill(bmac) has had fusion; through front & back.
I'm sure he has lots to add.

[Chezz]

Thanks Cincee and percs. I have (posted, chatted, whatever you want to call it lol ;)  )talked to bill about it, the 1st night of this. I hope he will add more now though. The pain is constant now below my knee. I slept about 2-3 hours last night. I have been up since 4am. (i'm on the west coast, Ca) And that is with the medicine.

The sad thing is it's my wife's B-day today. I wish I wasn't a broken down Hubby. I hate that feeling inside.
Chezz

[bmac]

Yes I had fusion.It did get rid of all pain shooting down into the Butt and into the legs.Now I had the worse possible type.Anterior and posterior.Which wasn't very easy on me afterwards but Most fusions aren't done from the front and back anymore unless you have several levels damaged.I had L4/5 and S1
levels damaged.S1 if you don't know is the tailbone level.
As I told you before I was in a body brace for 18 months.No sitting at all.I could stand or laying flat,it was a ***** not
to be able to sit for a year and a half.But fusion was my only choice.I had 3 surgeries prior to my fusion to releave siatic (sciatic) pain but it didn't work.But please and I can't stress enough do not let an orthopedic surgeon do fusion.That's the job of a neurosurgeon.As I told you before my wife works for one of the
best neurosugeons in the country and he is an expect on back fusion and my wife has told me several horror stories of ortho's
doing really bad jobs on the spine.But I think you are a very smart person and I am sure you will reseach the hell out of this before you let anyone cut on you,but yes fusion does work.Good luck Chezz,I know you are tired of this pain,I know it all to well.
                            bmac

[bmac]

When I got out of the body brace I tied a brick on it and thru it into the lake where my parents live.I watched it sink and I hope it rots.But I was smart,I tied sacks of dog food on it
so we could fish around it.Just a little fusion humor.I hope that sucker is now a piece of rusted metal and plastic.
But I did tie dog food on it and I hope someone caught a big fish off of it.Hang in there Chezz,if fusion is nessasary
it will help alot.
                            bmac

[percsnomas]

Just a footnote.... although our pathology(s) are different, they're are similarities.
After i herniated my disc the first time(playing hockey), it was hell. This is the time when it sequestered. Well, i read every book, trying to satisfy my underlying fear about having or not having surgery. Obviously this preceeded my mri, etc.
After i found out that surgery was a last option(because after one, your spine will never quite be the same...comprimised), and that it is only required in a very small percentage of people--like 1-2%, if i remeber.  Well, i get my mri results, and the Ortho tells me i'm a part of that small percentage and require surgery.  Scared shitless after that.
But, I'll never forget as long as i live, waking up post-op and not having that horrific torn hamstring feel...sciatica.
Anyways, i guess i'm just trying to reassure you, and believe me i know how invassive the procedure is...i oredered the surgery on video from the Learning Channel. Take Care

[bmac]

It will diffently releave the siatica,no doubt.And the video
percs mentioned is very good.It will explain it all to ya!But do get a second opinion just for your sanity.I did and they both agreed fusion was the right thing for me.
                           bmac

[percsnomas]

...oh thats Been There Done That Bill, just to add to your list of names.
Good morning, still snowing like a MFer up here....

[Witchywoman]

Hi Chezz,
Where on the west coast are you? I live in the Bay Area.

Ah, fusion.  I'm in the same boat as you. My latest MRI report came back and my Doc has referred me to the surgeons, telling me that fusion is my best option.  I agreed to talk to the surgeons, but am VERY doubtful that I'll agree to fusion, despite the pain.  I've talked to too many people who have had fusion and still have pain.  

What I"m really interested in is artificial disk.  The FDA trials are going on right now.  St. Mary's hospital, Dr. Zimmerman, in San Francisco, is part of the clinical trials.  They've been doing them in Europe for almost 20 years, rather than torturing folks with fusion.  My HMO is not part of the trials, but they  might be willing to refer me to the trials. I've spoken to a few people who have had it done and they are all doing fine and out of pain.

I'm not saying fusion is all bad, just that I've heard very few true sucess stories, and even my spine doc told me that it usually means more surgery a few years later, due to the pressure it puts on other parts of the spine.

love,
WW

[Chezz]

My new doc won't be doing the surgery. In fact she doesn't even do surgery anymore. She used to be an ortho doc. Now she mainly pain management and something else. (I forgot) I asked for a credential sheet, and they gave me one. I just have to find it again.
If I get any surgery done it won't be here. Most likely Hawaii. And it will be done by a neuro. Most likely the same team I had last time. That is when they said to wait since it wasn't acute and I was so young(25).

The new test I am getting is a CT enhanced myelogram. This will help to better see how bad it is. I get it on Monday.
Chezz

[bmac]

BTDT,now that's a good one.Snowing,what's snow?It snows here maybe once a year.If it snows alot(3 to 4 inches)the whole state
shuts down.It is so funny to watch us try and get around while
snowing.You would love it.It is 65 here and rainy but thanks again for the coooollll weather.It is wonderful.I hope Chezz doesn't wait around on this one.My wife tells me stories all the time about this back stuff and I have watched many operations she has done over the past few years and things have come a long way since I had mine in feb 1992.In these 10 years I haven't had one siatic (sciatic) pain since my fusion.So I guess it was successful.
been there done that,billy bass,bionic bill and I'm guessing I forgot one I am sure.BTW,my nickname in the band is BoomBoom.
The bass thing.
                   btdtbbbbbbbmac

[Chezz]

WW,

That is where I am at too. If I can just get through this episode I will do everything I can to stay healthy. The gym, stretching everyday, anything. I guess I am just not ready to deal with it. The doc could tell that I wasn't either yesterday. She was trying to explain that it was a mechanical issue that most likely won't just go away, or get better with epidurals or anything else. And I kept telling her I just need to get the epidurals and I will stretch, walk, ect ect ect. Anything to just get through this without surgery.

I also know of many people that have had the surgery and say they still have pain. Except now it is everyday and doesn't really change or go away. My dad and his sister had it done about 10 years ago. They both said that it helped, but hurt. I haven't seen my dad in about 5 years, otherwise I would be able to find out more from him.

The main thing I have heard from Neuro's and patients is to try not and get it unless absolutely neccessary. To also try and stay away from it. Even if it means staying on the meds for a year prior. I hate being on them as it is. Let alone for more than a couple months. The longest I have ever had to was 8-9 months, and that sucked!

I just wish I knew what I did to make it get like this. It was bearable about 3 weeks ago. Then after that night when I was emailing Bill and going out of my mind cause it hurt so bad, it has been the same/gotten worse. That is the 1st time it ever went below my knee.
Chezz

[bmac]

I had fusion in 1992.They used artifical discs in me then.
I am not sure what you meant by that because they used them in me,three levels.They used bone to do the fusion from my hips.I have no metal or any other type materials like pins or screws.
The disc material is a mix of plastics and bone.I know several people that haven't gotten any relief from fusion but I for one
am a success story.
Chezz why go to Hawaii,here in Birmingham we have one of the best Sports Medicine hospitals in the country.HealthSouth.
They are the leaders in Neurosurgery.The doctor that my wife works for helped invent the Gamma knive used for brain tumors.
No invastive part to it.They do all the professional sports
people and even the prince of Shadia Arabia has had 4 surgeries here.I didn't have mine there because at the time it wasn't such a big hospital,but I can tell you there isn't a better neurosugeon in the country.Good luck
                   bmac

[Chezz]

BTW - I can't believe how much better the oxycontin is than the percocet. I only have to take it twice a day. It doesn't make me grumpy. I don't get a "high". Its not like percocet, where you get the high, then low, take more, high, then low, ect ect ect.
The pharmacist also told me I might need to try taking it at different times to help stay on the same dose, but still get the same pain control for longer. She said switching the time I take it will help so I don't have to take more.
Plus right now I am taking about half of what I am prescribed so that makes me feel good. (I am just dealing with more of the pain though, that is why I couldn't sleep)
Its almost like I am hoping if I take less it will mean I am getting better and won't have to get the surgery.
Chezz

[percsnomas]

what mg oxycontin?

[Chezz]

Everyone has their own "best doc" stories in my opinion. Everyone I have talked to has told me about someone different. I have also done research, and that is what I found too. Their isn't just ONE goto guy.

Scripts institute in San Diego, Ca. has some great surgeons too. Cedar Sinai has some also. They take care of most of the celebs. ect. ect. ect.  I have heard many different docs and hospitals.

I can't explain my situation fully. I need a little ANONYMITY too. But I will be seeing the same team that I had before if I have to go through with the surgery. That is most likely. That could change, but probably not.  
Chezz

[bmac]

Good Luck Chezz,it is a hard thing to go thru.Just do what they tell you to do and get better.
                        bmac

[Chezz]

10mg. I told her I don't like taking the meds and I want to have control on how much I take. She already knew all of this cause she talked to my PCP already. Actually I found out he had been talking to her for a while. He is kind of young and hasn't ever really dealt with back issues.
So she gave me 10mg, then I can take more if I need too, or take less. I am not just going to take 40mg. twice a day, everyday. If I have a good day I can take less, bad day and I can take what is prescribed.
I want to keep it as low as possible. So I am still dealing with a fair amount of pain. Actually my shin is f#$%$@# hurting. But I would rather deal with it and feel the pain so I don't just mask the pain and hurt myself more by doing too much. I have done it before.
I want to get better. And that means I have to feel/deal with the pain.
So right now I am taking 20mg twice a day. I might have to change that if I can't get more sleep than I am getting. But 1st I am going to see if I can try other things to get me through the night.
Chezz

Any ideas on ways to help would be great.

[diso]

Any word from Sean today?

[Chezz]

BTW - I can't believe how freaking expensive the medicine is. I asked the pharmacist a bunch of questions about it. Then I asked how much it was just out of curiosity. She said it was over $150.00. I couldn't believe it. That **** isn't cheap.
Chezz

[Chezz]

Percs,

What video are you referring to. Was it something that described the surgery or showed it?
It sounds like something I would want to see.
Thanks for your help,
Chezz

[Chezz]

Thanks for all the info, and advice.
I hope I didn't sound like an a$$ when I was trying to explain my doc situation. I don't really have a choice on where to go 100%. Hard to explain.

I REALLY appreciate all your guys help and suggestions. It is nice to be able to have a place where people understand what I am going through. It was sooooo hard yesterday when I found out that surgery might be the only answer. But I knew I could come here and get help and find out more info. It feels like I am in this by myself. I haven't been back in the states for more than 5-6 months, so I don't have any friends here to even talk to.
But I knew I could get help and support here, because of all of you guys and your BIG hearts. Thanks again,
Chezz

[bmac]

I understand about the doc thing.Because of my insurance I have to go to one place.I can't even see the pain doc that is my friend anymore.I know how it can be with this stuff.You will do
what you feel is best,good luck.
                       bmac

[percsnomas]

It's a video showing the actual surgery(on a real live person ha ha)...i'll look for it at home to try and provide more details....I know i ordered it thru the learning channel.
Good luck to you whatever you decide!!!

ps my wife refused to watch it... too much like 'trauma in the ER' for her

[OxyDout]

I never had any back surgery but have had my knee cut open 6 times....... I say this because I wasn't able to move which caused severe back pain...... and I'm sure that was only an inkling of what you experience.  Good luck, stay strong, things will get better.

[bmac]

I know of a video I believe percs was referring too.It's from a series on the learning channel.The one I saw was about following
a patient thru the process.Went from all the testing to the actual operation and the rehab.It can be ordered from the learning channel and I am sure you can get it from your local hospital.Try there.
                        bmac

[bmac]

I am so tired of surgery,like you besides my back surgeries
I have had too many knee surgeries.Now I face replacement soon.
I told my wife which she works in the OR that I am sick of doctors and operating rooms.I pray this will be my last.
I know where Chezz is right now.I kept putting my fusion off until I just couldn't talk myself out of it anymore.It is a *****.Thanks for the comment,it is                appreciated.         bmac

[Chezz]

That's where I'm at Bill.
That is why I am not taking the meds like I am supposed to. I want to take the bare minimum so I can Try and just get through this. I am praying that I can get through this episode like I did the last time. Then I can go the the gym, ect. to strengthen my back up and hopefully avoid surgery for good, or at least another couple of years.
Taking the meds was all fun and games when it was for the reg. back pain running down my leg, or after my last hernia surgery.
Its not the same when your leg is going numb, and the pain in intense.
I'm actually taking less meds than I was when I had the percocet. Now I have the oxycontin, and can take up to 80mg. a day and I don't even want to take half that. That is why I am only taking 20mg twice a day. I don't want to risk masking the pain and hurting it more.
I just want it to go away. I'm scared now.
Chezz

PS I REALLY want to get that video. So if you have any more info that would be great. I will search for it on the web too. I am trying to remember what company the learning channel is with?!?!?

[percsnomas]

While i'm looking for that video(this weekend), have you checked out www.neckpaininformation.com?  Specifically, under the section 'spine animations' and 'interactive procedures and conditions'

I was fooled by the title "neckpain"; just one of many info sites
for all of these procedures

[SmokethisVette]

Hey dude....
Wazzz up? Just wanted to say glad you are kinda back...I mean you said what you said and well now you are here!! Yippeee......I am sure a lot of us are happy to see you around...
That's all for now..
Laters
Christine

[Chezz]

WOW

Thank you so much for that site. It is the best one I have seen yet.

And to think I knew alot already!!!!   ;0
That is the best one I have seen yet.
I will be busy for a while!
Thanks again.
Chezz

[hippy]

good  to see ya posting , i have missed
your upbeat , positive way,
i mean that from my heart.
i hope to continue to see ya posting
no matter what is goin on in tour life
good or bad , your someone who helped me when i 1 st got here
along with , groovy, skipper , irish rose, mr. michael
and all the rest.
ya thinghs have been really positive around here latly ,
a lot of new people getting clean and sharing a lot of really good things.
well i hope your doing and feeling good.
miss ya your freind  hippy

[hippy]

you must be getting better , because your sense  of humor is back and kicking

[bmac]

damn right!!! I feel alot better thanks,
                            bmac

[Sugarbeens]

Hi all.  Most of you don't know me, but, Skipper and Witchywoman know me as "Butterbean".  I couldn't get on with that name, so am now Sugarbeens.  Has anyone had problems sleeping when taking narcotics, percoset???  It makes me itch terribly and am wide awake all night.  I have been taking off and on for 8 years along with vics.  I fell skating in 1977 and have hurt in tailbone and lower back ever since. I am 48 now and pain is worse, so I will take my meds as perscribed, because I wouldn't be able to function without them.  Over all the years and all the tests, they never really found out until today, what is wrong with my back.  I kept telling them I know something is busted when I fell.  I was told at last MRI, 6 years ago that I had arthritis in back.  Now the doc called to report my one from yesterday shows that I have arthritis and "some" herniated disks.  He left it on my work voice mail.  He said we will discuss some other options at my next appt.  He and I already talked about that neither of us like the surgery route(unless I could go to Hawaii like Chess), so that is out.  I will stick to meds, but, I am really glad to finally have some sort of diagnois.  Years ago the airbase docs looked at me like it was in my head, don't you hate that?  I did not start on narcotics until I was 40.  I , like Witchywoman, am a therapist and work with people with disabilities.  I am also the director of this agency.  I did abuse the vics, but, have quit and just went back on my meds.  I know I can't function without them.  I do need to sleep though.  What can I do, other than taking something to help me sleep.  These meds usually put people to sleep, my body has the opposite reaction.  Benedryl does help me sleep, but, you are not to take those with narcotics.  I work out and am thin which helps keep me limber, but, I have no days or hours without pain.  Now that I take narcotics, I get 40percent pain relief, which keeps me going.  I am divorced and live alone, so I do not have the option of quitting work, or going out on disability, not that I want to anyway.  I love my work!  If any of you wonderful people can tell me what to do to sleep, besides quitting percs, I would love you for it.  I may just go back to only vics.  They keep me up somewhat, but, not like percosets.  Thanks, I want all of you to know that your stories are inspirational.  With my field of work, I see many and all disabilities, especially physical ones, and sometimes I have to revamp and tell myself how lucky I am that I am not in a wheelchair(yet) and that I can keep moving and helping people.  Helping others is my life.  I read this forum everyday, but, don't post often anymore.  You guys make me laugh, cry, but, especially, you help me to "LIVE".  I am motivated and inspirted by you.  Hippy I sent you a message a few days ago, but, it was deleted probably before you read it.  They deleted it the same day.  Just wanted you to know that you are mature and responsible.  I can tell by your posts.  I too was in many foster homes.  I really think abusive and hard childhoods make some people like us better people and able to help others.  I am praying for all of you in my own spiritual way.  Love to all of you.
Sugarbeens

[hippy]

thanks for the encouragement,  i did read your post.
i have dealt with my experence  from my chilhood ,
the foster home thing, i look at it this way my parents did
thier best , it was just a bad job. i used to feel really bad about being the only white kid in  a all black neiborhood
but now that i am 42 and grown up i sorta look at like a blessing. i had a lot of trouble with the kids my own age teen agers, but the rest of the people in the hood were really good to me, i rember one day when i was 16 and walking out of the
the bad hood twards the white neiborhood, going to highschool
and there was 6 or 7 of my next door neibors little kids all about 7 and 8 years old  walking about 30 feet in front of me and some white guys started throwing beer bottels at them
and calling them little ni#@ers, i felt so bad for them.
and i ran up to them they were all crying .i said everything was alright , and i walked them to school, i rember thinking that day, why was i even going to school, the world was such a lousy place, i guess i just learned that day why so many people are filled with anger and racism.
anyway, im rambling,
I BELEIVE THAT HATE ,ANGER RACSISM, ARE ACIDS THAT DESTROY
THE JAR THAT HOLDS THEM.
THE DELI LAMA WAS ONCE ASKED IF HE HATED THE CHINESE FOR
KILLING A MILLION OF HIS PEOPLE IN TIBET, HIS ANSWER WAS
IF I HATED THEM I WOULD ONLY BE HURTING MYSELF..

  YA I LOVE MY PARENTS THEY ARE STILL AROUND.
FOSTER HOMEs REALLY SUCK. ALL I EVER WANTED WAS TO HAVE A NORMAL
LIFE , I FINALLY HAVE HAD ONE FOR THE LAST 18 YEARS,
I PAID A LOT OF ATTENTION TO MY KIDS , AND THEY TURNED OUT WAY DIFFERENT THAN ME.MY DAUGHTER IS MARRIED WITH A SON,
AND MY SON IS IN SARYCUSE ON A SCHOLARSHIP AND DOING WELL.
THANK GOD FOR THAT.PART OF THAT WAS MY OBSESSION TO RAISE THEM
OUTSIDE OF THE CITY, AND IN THE SUBURBS, WHERE ALL THE QUOTE
UN QUOTE NORMAL PEOPLE LIVE,
IM STILL AN ADDICT WETHER I AM CLEAN OR USE ing, I STLL HAVE THIS DISEASE  OfF ADDICTION. IT MANIFEST ITSELF IN OTHER WAYS
other than drugs, like work, burning out credit cards,
clothes, books and reading like a feind.

but over all life is good, i enjoy the little things, drinking a cup of coffee in the morning sun, reading a good book,
playing spiderman with my 5 year old grandson ian,
praying at night with my wife, going to the movies.
readin the post here and seeing people getting better.
i love the openmindedness around here and the real care for one another.
peace

[Sugarbeens]

Please, if anyone knows about the percoset not letting you sleep, please let me know.  I don't know if anyone has experienced this other than me.  What does it mean.  I am wide awake, but tired!!!  How come most people get sleepy and sleep, but, I stay awake all night.  This is night 3 and I hope to sleep tonight.  Usually, after day 3, I am so tired that I finally just crash and sleep for about 15 hours.  Please respond if you know the answer.  What about Mr. Michael, Peaz?  Do you know or have you had this problem.  What can I do to get some sleep??? Thanks for any help I can get. Have a good night.

[peaz]

Hi Darlin'--My experience has been w/ vikes, but I DID have the Sleepless in Seattle routine.  It's odd- w/ the doses of narcs that we take, most people would be down for the count, but w/ our tolerance, it only makes us wired.  That's why we paint the house and mow the lawn and do laundry oh, yes, and how about wallpaper the dining room after dinner...Anyway, what I did was drink about four glasses of Merlot to mellow me out, which isn't kosher if you're trying to detox...When I had insomnia when I went CT, I just muddled through it and eventually I slept after I got exhausted enough. Are you tapering now?  What daily dosage?  I would suggest diphenhydramine (Benadryl) but not if you're still doing narcs--it will make things worse.  (Someone mentioned that in a post--was it you?)  So, to sum it up, I have no real solution, but perhaps there's something in Thomas' Recipe that helps w/ this.  I only recall the energy-enhancing aspects of it.   I just flipped back to your post, and saw that it's day 3 and you're at your wits end. Can you try the Benadryl?  I haven't been much help, I know, but I did my best.  Thinkin' of you--Peaz

[peaz]

P.S.  The itching is definitely a side-effect of the narcotics.  It should go away.  I used to  go crazy at night when I'd lie down to sleep and  the itching would start almost immediately.  GGGGGGRRRRRRR!!!  I re-read your post and you did make the benadryl comment.  But now that you're clean, couldn't you take a couple?  At least it's not a benzo.   :-)  Just trying to help...Peaz

[hippy]

people recomend . fpr rest and or sleep
kava kava, valaarian root, and some others i can't think of
right now
hot baths help,
you might want to look up natureal remadeies on the internet
for sleep.

if you are clean , one thing that works for sure is,
nightquil, i would only take it in emergencies  , but it
would knock me out for the night.

im sure someone esls will post some of the other sleep aids

the problem with acholol is it only works for a few hours then you wake up a 3 in the morning and ya can't go back to sleep.

some times just plain old alkaselzer cold plus heps me sleep.

good luck

[Sugarbeens]

Hi, you guys misunderstood me. My fault I guess.  I am not clean.  I actually just started taking my percoset again. I was not taking them for a few weeks.  I know I will have to continue due to my severe pain.  I hope this does not upset anyone.  I am going to do my best not to abuse them again.  I did take too many at times and had told myself I was going to stop taking my meds.  I have never gotten them from anywhere except my pain management doctor.  I do not try to get them anywhere else.  I have never been addicted to anything before.  I got addicted when I started taking more than I was supposed to because I liked the euphoria.  I am going to take them as they make it where I can function. I have tried many times and know that I would have to go out on permanent disability if it weren't for the meds.  My problem now is that I cannot sleep when taking percoset.  Not even a nap!!!  They keep me up and wired.  Why??? I can sleep when taking the vicodens though.  Is this a side effect and is there anything I can do so I can sleep and still take the percoset for the pain?  I know there is a nurse and a doc on here, if you or anyone knows the answer I would be very thankful!  So do any of you have a 3 day weekend from work, or do you have to work on Monday like I????  Hippy and Peaz, thanks so much for your responses!!  So many kind people here.  Hippy I think you are much like me, you find good in everyone and seem to love all people.  So do I.  If we all think about it, God ( or evolution ), whatever you believe, did not make bad people.  People just sometimes do bad things and make wrong and poor choices.  I do not judge anyone and when I counsel people, I do not bring any bias into my therapy.  Everyone of us has weaknesses, but, remember to think about what your strengths are.  So for the night, all of you reading this, think of one strength you have!!!!  For example, one of my strengths is that I am able to empathaize with people who do bad things.  My weakness(one of them) is low self-confidence.  What I have seen since becoming an addict by abusing my meds at times, is that most of the addicts on this board are highly intelligent and extremely caring and kind.   Can it be that we, who are overly sensitive to others, use drugs at times because of this sensitivity.  WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWER!    I feel like I have many friends who truly care here on this board.  And you and I don't even really know each other.  Maybe all of us here were brought here and put here for a reason!!!!!!!!!!  Do you have any idea what that could be?  I think you do.  Goodnight to all.  Skipper, how are you since the op???
Love Sugarbeens(Butterbean)

[DIRTBAG]

Hey Sounds like your hurting and sounds like your using me too have you missed me I'm still tapering and up and down. I'm looking for a job gonna change my day to day life I hate it. Nobody talks to me its so dysfunctional and weird.  I can't tell if its me or the dope.  I can live with only taking 5 vicodin but today I took tweleve maybe fourteen. I'm not sure nice talking to you. Peace Brother from beautiful Morgan Hill California

[deva]

yes,the percs and any narc for that matter can make you wired.for me its vikes,and percs make me tired.currently i take oxycontin,which if you take properly,give you effective long lasting pain releif w/out the blast to the blood euphoria that make us addicts.i would highly suggest asking for the duragesic patch for time release medicine over a 72 hour period of time.it is very hard to abuse them and harder to become addicted to.they are also effective and help you sleep the best out of every thing ive ever tried(and ive tried nearly all).it depends on how much med you take,but i was taking 40 mgs of oxycontin 3 times a day, and they gave me a 50 microgram duragesic patch prescription and it worked pretty well.the oxy i was on is equivilent to..i hope im right on this...8 percs. at a time,but spread over hours.i also know valerian root(valium in its natural form)is helpful as well as kava kava.also a tea of fresh or dried fennel seeds,(a handful to a quart of boiling water,cover ,steep for 20 min. and strain and drink upon the evening hours is healthy and absolutly safe with anything)will calm your nerves and help with deeper sleep.its auyervedic medicine.ancient indian knowledge.also a brisk walk or jog or deep strtching at night can relly help you too.good luck,hope you find this info useful,let me know...love deva

[puma]

Sugerbeans, you mentioned ithing like crazy and sleeplessness. Both can be symptoms of allergic reactions. It is possible you may be allergic to the drug. Ask you doc and maybe try another pain killer. Just a thought. Good luck.

Chatahan

[groovygirl]

my experience has been that mostly people that abuse opiates get wired from them.  people that i know that take them from time to time, like after surgery, get so tired and zonked from taking just one...as prescribed.  i used to get wired from meds, and i zoom around cleaning the house or whatever.  after i got in too deep with them, they simply just make me feel like ****.

[Sugarbeens]

Thanks so much for responding to my question.  I take 6 percs a day at 5mg each.  I can take only one and not be able to sleep at night.  They do wire me, but, at times also make me sick.  My usual pain relief is 4 vics a day and 2 percs, but, this past month he put me on all percs for the severe pain.  I told him that next month I want to go back to the vics.  I probably am allergic to them, why else would I itch so badly?  I will try and only take them when absoutley necessary.  I have taken more pain pills than I was supposed to in the past, but, I am making myself do what is right now , since I know I have to stay on them to get any pain relief.  I will try the fennel tea, thanks.  Hope all of you are doing well.
Love to all, Sugarbeens

[pon]

Hey...sounds like the solution to me.  I have know a number of riders who have had fusion surgery.  Back problems are an occupational reality for equestrians, with about 50% suffering enough damage or pain to need surg. at some point.  Anyway, the folks I know who have had it done have almost ALL said that it radically relieved the pain and gave them a new lease on life from that perspective.  For most of them it was a career ending operation...but if I remember correctly, you gave up riding ponies when you were a teenager....and I am guessing that you don't have any plans to start jumping horses over 1.6 meter high jumps as a hobby...do you?

Chezz man, I am so happy that you seem to have found the right combination of Docs and, it sounds like, meds.  I think there is light at the end of the tunnel my friend, and I am VERY happy for you.

The surgical experience will not be easy, but the payoff is worth it...

Send me an e-mail when you have a chance, I am missing our regular correspondence.

All OK here.  Day 32 behind me and feeling good.  Strained my shoulder yesterday doing some carpentry, but advil was enough to get through, so I was pretty pleased with that.

Kids and family are great...D1 started lessons on a new pony and surprised us with how much she has progressed in the last 6 months.  Seems to have tgotten her riding skills from her mother...which is a GOOD thing.  D2 spent the day in the back harness while I worked around the farm all day.  25 extra pounds to lug, but worth it...she is a VERY cheerful 1 year old, so plenty of singing, laughing and chatter to keep my mind off the labor and a smile on my face!

PLEASE write if you get the chance..I miss your letters and I'm really happy that they seem to have come up with a solution chance for you.

pon

Ps.  Wrote to Alissa, but no response...she OK?

[athena]

I think you may be having a mild allergic reaction to the percoset.I was on m/s once,had a lot of itching and nervousness.My doc said it was an allergic reaction and switched me to hydro.Maybe you could try a different pain med .I hope you find something that works for you without those side effects.

pixi

[peaz]

Hi--how was your weekend?  I was thinking about you, and wishing I could have been more help.  I don't know if you want to hear from me, but I thought of something that a number of people here on the board have used for insomnia, and  that is trazadone.  It comes in 50 and 100 mg., and is not a benzo.  It's also an antidepressant, which we all can use, right?   Also, I read that some think your itching is a sign of allergic reaction, and it very well may be; but as I said, in my experience, and as listed in the drug monograph, itching is a definite side effect.  Someone suggest you get switched to another drug altogether, and I'm inclined to agree. I hope you were able to sleep a little and that you have a good week!  Peaz

[loveyes]

I am on the verge of ending this life here on earth...
Hello all, I am new here. This is my last visit any where at this point of my life.
Let me see if I can break this all done for all of you please.
I live in Arizona. I have been living with back pain for 7 years now,it is to the point that it just rips right through my body. I have been to multi doctors and at first when I first started having this trouble,it was as if it was on my head,as I read I am not the only one this has happened to. Now today I have multi levels of degenertive disk disease,it does not stop there. I have a ruptured disk as well as spinal stenosis...This is not all. I have lost my state medical coverage, due to my husbands income. We make so little that we strugle to feed our children. I can't afford priviate insurance,as I checked,but they don't want to cover me anyways.So today I have only 2 doses of pain meds and its over. I have been shoved from one doctor to another for so long. Treat you with pain meds and drop you. When I can't get help,I retreat to the ER where I am told that I am starting to look like a drug seeker:(...... even though, they know what I have. The pain is ripping through me as I speak.The one surgon said you must detox off all pain meds and stop smoking or I won't do the surgery,as it is a waste of time if you keep smoking, he said that they had to be able to control the pain after surgery..However what was I to do with all this pain? while waiting? Well that matters not anymore as I am alone in my pain and suffering and they don't seem to care.I have gone from 18 pain pills a day to 8,as of now, and I am so consummed by this pain.When the last pills hit my mouth ,it is over for me.I have done all that I can do and have called everyone and no hope avails for me...Thanks for letting me vent here..I wish you all the best...God Bless you all"Lovechiidelvis

[puma]

Loveyes,

This may not sound feasable but if you are an American citizen and move to Guam, you can apply for the Medically Indigent program and wellfare and they will have to do the surgery.

If you have assets, you will not qualify. Have you considered calling the American Medical Society or your local public health center and asking them what are your best options to obtain this surgery. You may have to travel to another state for awhile to get it done but then you'll have it done. There are always other doors to open when others are shut. You need to pray hard for a new opening and guidance from the Lord to seek it. You may even want to start at your local church for assistance. Depression makes that nearly impossible, I know because I've gone through suicidal thoughts before.

If nothing else, call your local crises hotline and they should be able to find you some help. I'll be praying for you.

Good luck,

Chatahan

[BLONDEONBLONDE]

  HI I WAS ADDICTED TO VICODEN FOR 3 YEARS TOLD THE DR. PUT ME ON # 4 CODIENE AND IT WAS EASYIER TO WEEN OFF. IF THAT HELPS ANYONE. ASLO IF YA HAVE HEP C LIKE ME I GET THE CODIENE  WITH ASPRIN IN THEM. ITS EASYIER ON THE LIVER THAN TYLENOL. ALSO " MILK THISTLE REJUVENATES THE LIVER" ITS A fact!

[athena]

Hi and welcome.I realize that you are in a desperate situation right now.It will take some doing but chatahan is right.There is help out there.Call your local crisis line,call the health dept. Someone out there will have the answers for you.I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.You can vent here whenever you like,and many of us have been where you are.Just talking to people who understand what your going through is a big help.I hope you really think hard about your family before you take such drastic measures to get out of pain.They need you!Please make some calls and try to get help.It is out there.God bless you.

pixi