Barbiturate withdrawal and seizures

[gee]

Last year I suffered my first grand mal seizure.  At the time, I was taking Phrenalyn (similar to Fioricet but without the caffeine) for migraines.  There was still barbiturates in my blood when I was hospitalized for the seizure.  Since then, any time I go for several days without taking Fioricet, which is what I take now, I get a seizure.  They're happening about once every two months now.

I do take more fioricet than I should.  Sometimes fifty tablets in a week.

I feel like this has been the cause of my seizures and they've found no other cause.  Could this be causing these seizures, even though the barbiturate was still in my system with the first one?

I have gone to a neurologist, and he knows I take fioricet (he prescribes them) but I haven't told him how many I take.

Thanks.

[tom to Gee]

This doesn't directly address your question, but I know when you're over-medicated on Fioricet you're dry-mouthed and thick-tongued, causing you to noticeably slur your words. The therapeutic dosage of Fioricet is significantly lower than the amount that causes this.
If I'm not mistaken, MDs give, or gave, phenobarbital to prevent epileptic seizures -- that's another barbiturate like Fioricet ... don't know if it's meaningful in your case. Definately a topic for your doctor.
I hope your headaches go away. I suffered from migraine-like headaches for ten years. I cured them by going into a profession I actually liked. By changing the way I felt about my job (and myself), I completely eliminated the headaches. Besides, I know that there is a non-narcotic intravenous drug that specifically relieves true migraine headaches. I've been told that it's so effective that, if it doesn't work, it indicates your headaches are something other than classic migraine. They administer it at ERs and Walk-ins. Don't know what it's called.
Anyway, I hope I've helped. Take care, Gee.

[Mojo38]

I am not a medical doctor, just someone addicted to Xanax and methadone, both legally.  I definately think that the barbituate in Fiorinal could cause seziures.  Your body may have become accostumed to having a certain level of the butibol(Spelling) the barbituate part of the Fiorinal in your body and when you went under that level you have the seziure.  Definately get some medical help the seziures can be FATAL!  I have had partial seziures from withdrawl from Xanax and found out I was having these because I was skipping doses of my medication.  You can stop breathing during a grand-mail seziure, please tell someone in the medical profession.  Barbituates need to be tapered off of, you can't quit cold turkey.  I know it is embarrassing to tell a doc that you were taking such high doses but your life is worth it:)  Mojo38

[barbara to pain and lortab]

I also get partial seizures from alcohol withdrawal and they happen ever time I try to quit as well. That's one of the reasons I have had such trouble quitting over the past six months.

You sound as if you need to be taking an anti-convulsant medication. There are many, one is Neurontin, another Tegretol, and so on.

Be honest with your Doc and he can help you. Seizures are dangerous and can kill you. Even the partial seizures can eventually lead to generalized grand mal seizures, or even status epilepticus which is a seizure or series or seizures straight on lasting for 20-30 minutes or longer.

My partial seizures are the status type usually two or three in a row each lasting 10-12 minutes with little or no break in between. After they finally stop, I am zonked out in La-La land for the rest of the day. It's extremely painful too because since it is only partial at this point in time, I do not lose consciousness and can feel the entire convulsions and cramping muscles the entire time. It's like being under torture.

A good example or test for someone to imagine what it feels like is to take your two arms and outstretch them as if doing isometric exercise. Hold your muscles as tight as you can until your arms shake violently and hold it for as long as you can. Most people can only do it a couple of minutes because the pain is too severe. Then imagine it happening to all your muscles without your control and lasting 10-12 minutes and you can't stop it and let up. That's what partial seizures are like.

I am now back in in-patient detox with work pass priveliges because of my seizures and DT's.

Sorry for the long babbling, must be the medications they are giving me, I am sort of in La-La land. Work should be interesting today!

[gee]

Thank you all for your input.  I have tried anti seizure medications.... Tegretol, Dilantin, Depakote and now I'm taking Gabitril.  I've had seizures while on Dilantin and Gabitril.  The doctor took me off Tegretol because it was prescribed after my first seizure, and he didn't think they would be recurring.  Plus, I was gaining a lot of weight in a short time.  

Most of my seizures have been generalized.  I don't remember them but have "scars" that let me know they happened.  Plus I get an aura first and lose time.

One of my seizures I was "awake" for and it was a nightmare.  I lost the use of all my motor skills and couldn't form sentences.  This lasted over an hour.  My doctor said this was a more "mild" seizure, but because I experienced it, it was worse for me.  

Anyway, I'm just wondering if the fioricet could be contributing to the seizures because I've convinced myself they are, and if they're not, I'd like to know why I'm getting them.

Thanks again all!!

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Possibly the medication is contributing to the seizures but with as many seizures as you are having and the way you describe them, they sound more like epilepsy. You may want to consider going to an epilepsy specialist to test you with video EEG monitoring. You may need a whole new regemin of medical treatment. Good luck.

[steve]

I think it is the firocet. But I'm not a doctor.  I know a girl that was taking firocet and stopped and had a seizure months later. The doctors said it was from the firocet. Hope this helps.

[BC in Cal]

I am now in my fourth day of detox in my home. I have been hospitalized twice with grand mal seizures. I am only 36 and have been on fioricet and lortab and soma and about 10 other drugs. The seizures scared me so badly that nothing is worth dying. I have never been unconscious and transported by ambulance to a hospital until two weeks ago. I truly hope you find the strength. I am suffering right now so terribly and I have also found out that during my three year addiction, I treated people differently. I was hateful, quick to jump to conclusions, etc. I am on a medication called clonodine to help with the DTs and a very small amount of valium if the tremors start before i can take the next dose of conodine. These do help and I will have to wean myself off of those as well but it's all worth it. I pray you find help and while this past two weeks has been a living hell for me, I know that in about another month I will be normal again and a lot happier.

please email me if you want to talk. ***@****
I am weak, but I am recovering.

Luck to you

[barbara to pain and lortab]

I know exactly what you are going through. I had three seizures yesterday morning and decided to drink them away yet again. The DT's really suck!!!!!! I hope you do well and get past the seizures and DT's soon. Good luck to you.

I went to the beach and laid on the rocks at low tide for three hours praying about my condition. I don't know if I will make it. At least God sent me a new dog out of the clear blue to replace the one my neighbors accidently? poisoned several weeks ago. She even loves my cats! At least that was the first piece of good luck I have had in six months.

Hopefully, that means change will come soon. The Mental health department here sucks. The workers laughed while I was in seizures and when I freaked out in DT's and became violent they restrained me. They did not even know what the DT's means. I released myself that day and now my psychiatrist refuses to give me any out-patient treatment. No benzos, only Neurontin for the seizures. Life really sucks, I hate it and hope a Super-Typhoon comes real soon!!!!!!!!!

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

I know you're not directly asking for help or advice but I sense that you are truly in danger of some sort of serious consequence if you don't get help soon.  When you say you don't know if you'll make it I wonder if you have given up hope.  Please get involved with AA ASAP.  Even if you've been there and think they can't help you, I'm sure if you share at meetings SOMEONE will be able to lend support and help you find a better clinic or doctor.  Don't give up.  I think the worst part of addiction and the part people who have never suffered with it don't understand is the utter hopelessness we feel when we are far along in our addictions.  It is that deep down belief that we will never feel better and can never beat our addiction that keeps us from healing.  The only thing I can say is that despite feeling that way you must believe that you are not unique.  You are like millions of us, addicts with a future because we refuse to let our lives be controlled and dominated by this disease.  If you can grasp onto a straw of hope you can lift yourself out of this morass.  I'm pulling for you.  Brian

[barbara to pain and lortab]

That you Brian for your encouragement. I did call my psych Doc yesterday and asked to go back in one more time for in-patient treatment. We had a good talk and although the place is not perfect, I had to come to the realization that any place that takes control of ones life will have it's ups and downs. I am used to running my own life the way I have wanted to for so long it's hard to come to that conclusion. But while sitting shaking violently yesterday once again I asked myself am I really in control anyhow and the answer was a big fat NO! I woke up this morning to three more seizures in a row and know I will die soon if I don't take immediate action.

Like I said, the place is not perfect, but I think after two trys I know their strategies and policies and can work with them better this time. My Doc promised to treat me with the correct dosage of Benzos in-patient to avoid the DT's like the last time. I am commiting myself for anywhere from 30-60 days with work passes. She will start with heavy dosage and taper slowly over the one-two months to avoid further withdrawal.

Yes, I almost gave up, but decided to try one more time, I do want to live, not die! I will also be resuming my A.A. meetings on passes as well.

Thanks again for your advice and support. I do appreciate it.

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

I'm so glad to hear you're going back for inpatient treatment.  At least there you won't feel alone, will have professional help and, most importantly, can recover some hope.  Remember, millions have gone before you and made it.  You can too.  Good luck and post when you can.  Brian

[barbara to pain and lortab]

I am out on a work pass right now, Today was a split shift day. I went through hell earlier until checking in, the shakes, sickness and super high blood pressure. They medicated me and I am already feeling much better. I am sure I will shakedown during the next several days and may even go into DT''s but at least I am getting treatment now and plan to stick with it this time no matter what.

Thatnks again for your nice comments. I'll post again soon.

[Brian to Barbara]

How are you doing?

[barbara to pain and lortab]

So far I am doing alright. Some of the staff are real pains in the butt but I guess rules are rules and one has to get used to being under someone elses control once in a while. I'ts better than being under the control of the alcohol.

I had a couple of seizures on day-5 so my psych doc raised my dosage of Klonopin from 7 1/4 mg a day to 10 1/2 mg divided into four hourly intervals. That seemed to have stopped the seizures.

I am on day-7, my withdrawal is longer than average usually lasting 10-14 days. I had some delirium days 4-6 but now my head seems clearer today at work.

My psych Doc wonders how I can work under so much Klonopin, she says the average person in my alcoholic state and withdrawal would not be able to work. I am lucky I guess.

After about another 2-3 days my Doc will start slowly taper down the Klonopin. She says it may take up to two months to taper slowly if I don't want withdrawal from that. It also will give me more time away from the booze and less craving as time passes.

I also will be attending A.A. a couple of alcohol/drug rehab courses each week. Things are up and down mood wise but that is to be expected.

I am doing fine so far. Thanks for asking! I'll talk again soon.

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

God, I thought I had it bad with the narcotic withdrawals.  Since yours is extended, it must feel worse.  Hang in there.  Remember, one day you'll look back on this as a bad memory.  Life is just waiting for you to live it.  You'll be back in the game soon.  Take care.  Brian

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Things are not going well these past few days. I am on day-21 of sobriety and all I can think about is homicide and suicide.

First the homicide. The other day I had a seizure and asked the staff to let me go outside to shakedown because it is much warmer outside and the Doc gave 24 hour orders for them to let me go outside to shakedown if I want. They were too busy talking about their shift change and told me I would have to wait. I told them the seizures won't wait. They finally let me out and I shookdown while they finished their talking inside their nurses station.

When I finished I knocked to come back in and they took their sweet time in getting there as it was time for the other patients smoke break anyway. I was cussing and carrying on but not threatening anyone. I always go into delirium after a shakedown.

A Nurse asked me to come and take my meds so I did and went and sat down. I asked when my Doc would be in and they said late that afternoon. It was still only 9:00am.

All of the sudden a bunch of people show up out of nowhere and surrounded me. I asked what was going on and one of them, a Gay man said, Your Doctor signed you out you have to leave. I told him he was incorrect and he said we will restrain you if you don't sign the paper and leave. I refused to sign and these ten men all grabbed me like a gang rape and dragged me into a room in which they were going to tie me down. So I figured the most logical choice was to sign the paper and call my Doc later. They literally blackmailed me into signing it. So I signed and they let me out. I called my Doc and she said they were totally wrong that they misunderstood my voluntary entrance and choice to leave anytime as an order to leave right then. So she ordered me to be let back into the facility.

I have a strong desire to kill the Fag who acted in charge of the whole thing although I obviously won't since it is illegal. I found out later he is nothing more than a counselor from another department altogether. He is just jealouse of my job, bacause he even referred to it during the encounter.

I called my attorney, and anyone else I could think of and they all said there isn't too much they can do about it except that I should log everything down from now on.

Well, yesterday two in-patients got in a big fist fight and only got two hours in a locked room each.

So today I am so pissed off, I am going to stop taking my Klonopin and hope to have a killer siezure!!!!! I am currently taking 1 1/2 mg every four hours. I hate this world. It sucks. I just want to die since I can't legally do anything to correct the wrong!

Mental Health of Guam sucks and most of the politicians suck too!!!!

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

Wow, you are having a rough time.  Anyone who thinks narcotic withdrawal is bad should read your posts.  What can I say but hang in there, it WILL get better.  You must try to believe that.  Don't stop taking your meds and let them know you're feeling suicidal.  I know it sounds trite but someone said to me in NA once when I really felt like the world was a horrible place, "God won't give you more than you can handle."  Take care and this rough part will end soon.  Brian

[barbara to pain and lortab]

I have told them numerous times that I just want to die and hope a seizure kills me soon. They just simply chart it for the Doctor to read later. I don't want to tell them too much or they will put me on suicide watch and not let me go to work. This is the only thing keeping me going right now. If it was'nt for my job I would have hung myself on the vines in the jungle last weekend or simply started drinking again and wait for the next shakedown to get me! The staff are a bunch of semi or on the job trainee Philippino nurses who they hired simply because they don't have enough qualified help to go around.Most of these murses know nothing about seizures or alcohol withdrawal. They have a critical shortage of nurses here on Guam.

My Doc suggested off-island in-patient care but that is not possible for me at this time of year. Maybe next dry season, January, if I make it that long.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

I forgot to add, thanks for the encouraging words and I also heard that statement about God not giving us more than we can handle by one of my former Doctors about 16 years ago when I went through my last major depression. She was right that time! Hopefully you will be right this time too!

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

I have faith you're going to make it.  Life isn't always great but the alternative is worse.  Take care, Brian

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Yes, I am doing a little better today. My psych Doc put me on Depakote to control my mood swings and the seizures. I had one this evening shortly before going to work. The Depakote should assist in allowing me to get off the Klonopin a little sooner without too many seizures.

My A.A. meeting was a good one last night and it felt good going again and getting involved. I am much more optomistic tonight. Thanks for the encouragement. I do need all I can get! Good luck to you to, you are doing alot to help others with your knowledge and experience!

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

I am so happy to see that your spirits are up.  I do think you're turning the corner and it's going to be easier (although not always) from here.  Keep positive and remember to take one step at a time and one day at a time.  Take care, Brian

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

I just want to say to Barbara that I have read your posts and you have so much courage. I think you could write a book when you are through with this ordeal. You sound like a strong person and I know that you can do it. I just wanted you to know that I am pulling for you.

To Brian, you sound like a really neat person. How lucky Barbara is to have you to help her along.

Sincerely,
Shelly.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Thank you for the kind words. It does help get through the tough times. You are right! Brian is a great guy and we are all lucky to have a great forum such as this to be able to read and learn from some of his experiences and knowledge.

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

Thanks!  Believe it or not I'm sitting here blushing.  I'm glad I've helped some.  I'm just trying to give back some of the support and caring people gave me during my active addiction.  God knows I wondered sometimes why they didn't give up on me.  I'm living proof there's hope for everyone.  And Barbara, I can tell from your posts you're starting to feel better.  I'm really happy for you...BUT...please remember, it's when we start feeling good that we all tend to become complacent.  I relapsed more during the good times than the bad.  Please don't do the same.  Take care, Brian

[barbara to pain and lortab]

You are right, today is day-30 and since I am feeling better I felt myself craving today wondering why

[barbara to pain and lortab]

My typing went hay-wire or something. Anyway I found myself craving a drink wondering why I could not take just one to feel just a little bit better! Of course I already know the answer, learning the hard way. But it is weird that the craving came at this time since it is the longest I've gone so far without alcohol and it's like my mind and/or body is challenging me. I won't give in though. I have a good A.A. meeting coming up in  short while and things to keep me busy through the day!

Thanks for the warning though!!!!! I've known many who crashed and burned when they were feeling great!

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

What helps me is to remember that even if I'm not feeling "great", if I'm clean whatever I am feeling is REAL.  Life is meant to be lived on its own terms, without the need to always create an artificial nirvana.  We addicts are so used to a quick fix, a pill or drink to make everything feel better.  Now I get my "highs" from mountain biking, skiing, etc. and have learned to enjoy the little things that make life worth living--beautiful sunsets, good friends, my dog...all the stuff that didn't mean much when I was high all the time.  It really does feel good to get your life back.  Glad you're on your way.  One day at a time.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Yes, I agree we need to find other things to give us pleasure. Luckily I have alot of hobbies. I kept busy on my weekend passes going to the jungle and looking for rare plants. My cats and dogs are good company too.

I want to get out of the in-patient unit soon though, as I am really tired of it. I think my Doc needs to start cutting the Klonopin little faster but I Guess she is worried about the seizures since I had a few last week.

She tried my on Depakote for one week and I got extremely ill. I had to call into work sick for the first time in two years. I stopped taking it.

I am at day-33 today from the alcohol so unless something else is wrong with me I think I don't need the anti-convulsants. I am still on 1 1/4 mg Klonopin every four hours, except two times only 1 mg. I hope she can cut it fast without too much suffering.

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

Sounds like you are doing great.  If you're getting bored being in rehab you're well on your way.  Congrats.