Beating Heroin with Suboxone Need Help/Advice/Suggestions
Hi, my name is Gabe. I am 23 years old, and been physically dependant on opiates/opioids since I was 13. I grew up watching my oldest brother inject heroin and smoke crack and didn't have a father present, so naturally this brother of mine was my role model. He introduced to alcohol when I was 9, and give me my first Tylenol 3(codeiene) when I was eleven. by the time I was 13, I had my own connection to purchase 10mg Percocets, which I would do every Friday with my best fd. By fourteen I had figured out shorting Tylenol was disgusting and mconnect introduced me to rloxiodone 30mg and oxcontin in 20, 40, and 80mg. Eventually I learned that these pills could be injected and I was sailing quickly too fast into a money spiral. I changed my primary connection to another guy who would sell me 40 80mg OC for only 400$ in bulk. When I met up with him Friday, and Monday morning came one day, I went to prep my normalset up to get out of bed and only had six of them left.. I knew I was ****** . So I was sixteen at this point and knew the 80s weren't enough anymore; it was time to take a trip with a friend to get heroin for the first time. I would get bricks in the beginning out of Newark for 280. I found my.own connection in Paterson for bricks for only 220$ and I started using that as my connect. eventually I was purchasing so much and was such a dependable customer that my "boy" cut the bricks down to 180$ for me. I was buying three bricks a day, and distributing half of them at 10$ a piece to close friends. Meanwhile I would still purchase my 40 Oxycontin every Friday. Eventually I collapsed and went to detox at 18. I made it 68 days clean and jumped right back into the game. I used heroin until this passed June. I got into suboxone treatment that got me started toward straightening my head out. relapse twice in the beginning but now I've finally got 86 days clean. I started on 2 subs a day, taking the tablets which I have gotten myself down to about 1-2mg a day. I am ready to get off this **** and go back to an opiate free life... but it's incredibly difficult. I have been in an IOP (intensive outpatient program) for almost 4 months now, and I attend.NA and AA as often as possible working around IOP. I want to be totally off the suboxone though. now, and I am trying .5mg doses once a day.. but I cab never sleep unless I take it again before bed. I have prescriptions from.a psychiatrist that I am curious to get opinions on. I have diagnosed insomnia along with DSPS. (delayed sleep phase syndrome). Therefore I have a prescription for 2mg of klonopin for that and also anxiety disorders both generalized and also social. I have 15mg of Adderall daily also for ADHD and Lexapro for depression and just recently the doctor added a ed for sleep called Remron. How should I use these scripts to my benefit or how should I not use these scripts to my benefit? I am also taking L-tyrosine with a vitamin B complex twice daily on an empty stomach along with another vitamin my friend supplied because he beat subs about there months ago with s ton of vitamins. Any and all advice is acceptable and will be incredibly helpful. please be open and honest and share anything that may possible help in the slightest bit. I am fearful, but not terrified like I used to be. its rough, I've done it once before.. but nothing compares to trying to be heroin cold turkey. thank you. Gabriel.
hi Gabriel, it's late and you might have to wait for more people to respond to your post til tomorrow. My doc was pills, so I don't have a lot of experience in the H area and none in subs. You have a long history of abuse at such a young age, it seems rather complex. If I were you I would want know if the Klonopin and Adderall were necessary, I guess. Both, imo, can be very tricky and dangerous. I don't know of Remron but I would sure want to read up on it. Why are you taking the vitas on an empty stomach? Is that common? It sounds like you are doing a great job with the NA/AA stuff, and your motivation to succeed sounds super! sorry I can't offer much more solid help but I wanted to lend my support and reassure you that you will get more responses soon! welcome to mh!
Hi gabe! Welcome to mh! I just wanted to give you some support and let you know you are not alone :) this is a great place for support and advice. It is late so it might be a little while until you get some responses like meeg said. My doc was oxy. So i don't have any experience with your doc. I just wanted to give support and congrat you on getting your life back! :)
Hey Gabe, first off welcome to the site. I am 130 days clean from Subutex now, it's not nice like you know but it's doable with enough want in your heart. I'm sorry you have a lot of other issues, anxiety, depression and insomnia they can't be good things to live with, I too struggled with sleep problems for years, without diagnosis, I chose to self medicate with Valium, well I sold them to fund everything else, heroin, crack, (speedballs), weed and anything else on offer, food at times too, lol. I still struggle with it, but it's got more to do with the w/d from subs, well that's what I tell myself anyway, I am choosing to give myself the chance to find out if it will happen for me naturally. I just don't want to take anything if I can help it. I understand this isn't the same for you though, Remron (Mirtazapine) can be a great drug for insomnia and depression, a lot of people with bipolar get prescribed it over here in the UK and I know of a few friends who has only good things to say about it, I used to take it at times, just for kicks, it gives you some very lucid dreams, well it did for me. They say it takes a month or two to level in your system that's when you get the full benefits from it, I hope it helps you my friend. I don't know much in the way of the other meds so I can't help in advising you, sorry! Back to the subs, it's going to be about 20 days until you start to feel some what normal, your right it's not as severe as a Heroin detox, it still bad enough though, make sure your topped up on supplements and health drinks to help pull you through quicker and start eating healthy, do this now don't wait until your in the thick of it, start ASAP, this will help you so much, I promise! (you mention an empty stomache). Start getting used to drinking water and loads of it, get your body in as fit a state as possible you know, make this as easy as possible for yourself. Your still young enough to push yourself pretty hard so start some exercises, as much as you can manage, you sound like you might have slight agoraphobia, if so start some sort of healthy routine to get your blood pumping, this will help everything, the natural endorphins it produces can help with sleep, depression and anxiety so give it a go, you never know you could find a way to drop other meds with this alone, hope so! Keep yourself busy when you jump, a busy mind is a happy mind, please don't sit on your arse waiting it out, it's not the way to go. The bad sleep your going to experience is going to be a tough one, especially for you, let's hope your usual prescriptions help with this, here's hoping eh! There is the Thomas Recipe at the bottom of the page for advice and tips so have a good read though that. Well done on all your hard work thus far, and so very well done on building up support, you've give yourself a strong chance at beating this. I wish you all the best Gabe, go get your life back, your worth it my friend!
I forgot to mention, if your finding it rough at 1mg of Suboxone, just jump and get it over with, I couldn't get very low either and would have horrendous nights. I jumped from 4mgs and made it out ok, it's a long wild ride for sure but it's far from impossible. You have nothing to loose and everything to gain my friend. If you can get lower do that though, you'll know in your heart when you hit the jump zone, just don't stress about it. There is never a good time to quit, you just have to right! Stick close to this site for help, I wish you luck!!!
Welcome and know you can do this. some w/d are inevitable but we all survived, I have never taken subs but this is the first time in 16years i am chemical free and know its worth it and your worth it!! I am here if you need and know “Your best days are ahead of you. The movie starts when the guy gets sober and puts his life back together; it doesn't end there.”
― Bucky Sinister
THATS MY ALL TIME FAV QUOTE :)
"I have prescriptions from.a psychiatrist that I am curious to get opinions on. I have diagnosed insomnia along with DSPS. (delayed sleep phase syndrome). Therefore I have a prescription for 2mg of klonopin for that and also anxiety disorders both generalized and also social. I have 15mg of Adderall daily also for ADHD and Lexapro for depression and just recently the doctor added a ed for sleep called Remron. How should I use these scripts to my benefit or how should I not use these scripts to my benefit?"
The thing is, if you treat your underlying issue (addiction) and give it time...a lot of time, more than likely your sleep issues will get better. It sounds like your psych is heavily medicating you for symptoms brought on by addiction/detox. Sure, if you have anxiety issues and the doc wants to treat them with meds...hey, hes the doc. But I also know docs are RX'ing folks to death these days and often times making it worse for people. Klonopin, Adderall, Lexapro, AND Remron...Ig get a second opinion if I were you. Those are all some pretty heavy meds that come with there own issues. When I was in prison they gave have the population Remron that had the whole yard either comatosed or walking around like a Zombie.
Look, Im like you. Got addicted really young...heroin...all that. Im 35 now and it took me years to finally put a few years clean time under my belt. When I was your age, the psychs did the same with me. Had a clinical label for everything....I mean if sneezed more than twice a day I had chronic sneezing syndrome....If I said I couldn't concentrate then I was ADHD....Im not saying those things dont exist cus they do...Im just saying to be careful when using drugs or detoxing because many symptoms will manifest and you dont want a permanent clinical label for something that is temporary.
When we come of opiates, we experience anxiety...we cannot sleep....etc etc. In muy opinion, it is best to deal with those things straight up remembering they arent a permanent ailment. Its just something we have to endure to get right.Your in a program and it sounds like your on the right path just keep in mind that much of how you are feeling will pass on its own. You just have to give it time.
Hey There Gabe & Welcome!! Congrats on your big decision to come off the Subs. I'm glad to hear you're off the street. (Newark, hunh? Rough!)
I had the exact same thoughts as my friend, ABN, above. I too, was a long term heroin user & started as a teenager. Although, I found heroin to be an intense kick, I found that I bounced back faster from it than from either Subs or Methadone but perhaps that's because I had a longer time 'in' by the time I tried to kick the latter two. You're young & that's reallllly in your favor physically, You CAN do this, if you want it badly enough & stick to it.
I think that depression, insomnia & anxiety are natural to us when we try to detox & frequently -- (particularly the first & last) -- go hand in hand w/ opiate & other addictions. What we're trying to get away from here is the notion that we have to salve everything with a pill -- that there's never a reason for us to be uncomfortable or unhappy, The fact is that we've changed our neural chemistry & there are consequences There are also underlying reasons why we used to begin with & unless we come off the meds & give ourselves an appreciable amt. of time to heal, we'll never know what's actually going on. (A case of which came first: The chicken or the egg? Was I originally like this or are the meds causing or exacerbating these symptoms?)
I'm really glad you posted, Gabe. This is a great place to get support & inspiration. Please, keep posting & let us know how it's going. We're here & we're pulling for you, my friend!
Thanks again for the input. I have to state, just so you don't misunderstand that I was diagnosed with ADHD in first grade. I was diagnosed with depression, anxiety, insomnia, and dsps when I was thirteen at the #2. best sleep treatment center in America. so these diagnoses are not recent. I've been taking adderall for about 15 years, and klonopin for 10 years. just wanted to clerify that so I can maybe get different more relative advice bring I can't stop the klonopin without seizures and if I stop the adderall I won't. be able to focus let alone get out of bed.. I sleep all day without it.. and during opiate withdrawal it'll have me half awake stuck in bed laying around the whole withdrawal period. the post acute withdrawal symptoms will be out of control if I stay on the couch or in bed all day. knowing this, does anyone have any advice on maybe supplements other than L-thiamine or L-tyrosine. mixed with a vitamin B complex? Also what type of exercise of physical things I can do to help? Is walking simply enough? Should I try jogging? I also smoke quite a bit and have asthma and chronic bronchitis(chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or COPD). anything that might help my lungs that is OTC vitamins? I need a serious lung cleansing with this. Does anything exist to do that? Again, thanks to everyone who actually read what I had to say and responded. Unfortunately my situation is crazy. But I know from education that I do not have chronic uniqueness. please keep responding and being totally open. I don't say all these things to excuse my medication use either. I've never abused my adderall nor klonopin. thanks again. -Gabriel
Hi there- if you can't stop smoking at least don't smoke for awhile; you'll feel better.
I'd add magnesium to the Lthianine and take Vit C in the morning at twice the Daily requirement. How did the doctor tell you to take the Remron? At bedtime? That's when I'd take it along with the Klonopin...
Keep your fluid intake up, too. I admire what you're doing here and wish you all the best! Good job!
Thank you very much. The adding of supplements is my bigest concern. I'm six foot tall and weigh about 130lbs. I need to really take care of my health right now. The last time I tried kicking was in March. My girlfriend said I looked so frail and sick that she was afraid I would die. I couldn't eat. I dropped down to about 110lbs. Had 13 days clean at that time, but even my mother encouraged me to take suboxone so I wouldn't die. it was quite an experience. I wanted to get out of the house on day six or seven and fainted in the supermarket. Anyone have suggestions on a diet with what I should or should not eat? I'm pretty poor right now but ill find a way to get anything that will help. I've eaten a maple brown sugar pop-tart around midnight the passed three nights. Not a thing more. Please, suggest foods. I am very uneducated about healthy eating. I grew up on poptarts and macaroni and cheese. The only vegetables I eat are broccoli and artichokes. I used to eat apples, but I was beaten, robbed, and raped on the streets for money when I.was 19 and Iost several teeth to the sidewalk and work boots. I have trouble chewing hard foods. I like yogurt.. would this be a good solution to eating? Also is trix yogurt unhealthy? Cause I hate yogurt with chunks of fruit in it. I know yoplait makes a blended fruit chunk free yogurt, but I can't ever figure out what kind it is. Maybe I should stick to plain yogurt? Maybe just vanilla yogurt. Again, please be fully honest and relsuggestions ay any. and all suggestions. Thanks for everything everyone. -Gabriel
Hello Gabriel! Welcome to MH. So, I've been following your post since you first started posting. You've definitely been through a lot, haven't you? I'm really sorry that you had to grow up fast, at such a young age. :( I seriously can't believe that you were, beaten, robbed and raped when you were only 19 years old, so young... However, I think it's freakin' amazing that you're getting your life back! " what what" you got this! For healthy food- I ate a boat load of bananas in the first couple of weeks of detox. They helped with my RLS and was day on my tummy. Yogart (activia) was also easy on my tummy. Lots of water/ Gatorade, grapes,etc. exercise- yes, walking is amazing. I got bak into yoga, which is awesome. A few of my friends that are coming off of H are playing baseball/ basketball. I guess it's helping them out? I'm not coming off of H ( my DOC is Norco, 30 days clean!) just keep busy! How are you feeling right now? Are you okay??
Hey Gabe, I'm sorry to hear you suffered this way, not a nice thing to go through for real, sorry my friend. If I where in your possition with money troubles and chewing troubles I would look to buy tuna, pasta and mayonnaise, these three things combined can make a good meal for you. It combines sugars, fat, carbs an plenty protein. It will be cheap too, you can add sweet corn too, use low fat mayo if you don't want all the fat or not as much. You can get some brilliant shakes now for weight gain but they can be real expensive, the cheaper ones work too though so look into those, basic creatine is usually the cheapest. Fruit, bananas are great for detox they are packed with potassium and this is a great healer. Any fruit on top of the meal I mentioned will help you tremendously so try buy some. I forgot eggs, I crack a couple of eggs in my health shake every morning, there aren't many foods available with all the benefits you can get from one raw egg, protein, vitamin A, vitamin B's and potassium just stir them in and down it, they don't taste to good but they are worth it. You can buy flavourings to add to shakes too, especially if you buy straight creatine, I used to add a drop or two of strawberry to it, it lasts ages and doesn't cost much. I'll try and think of more and get back to you my friend, best of luck to you!
You've got and I am also sorry for all you've been through. As for eating, for right ngrow try to keep to things you know you like. You are really underweight so you should try to supplement with maybe a protein drink or Ensure. Greek yogurt is very healthy as it has a lot of protein in it. I add cheerios or Kashi Go Lean crunch for some extra protein and texture. Scrambled eggs are usually easy on the stomach and simple to make. Tuna is really healthy if you can keep it down. Soups, string cheese, watermelon are easy to eat and healthy. If you can keep down oatmeal, that has a lot of nutrition in it. (I don't like the instant; too. gummy. I buy Quaker Old Fashioned Oats and make it with milk. I make sure I keep stirring it and it gets nice and creamy. Sometimes I put maple syrup in it or brown sugar. I add raisins or nuts at times. Bananas are usually easy to keep down and help with any restless leg feeling. As you feel better, start concentrating on improving your nutrition
If you grew up on things like Pop Tarts and processed foods, it may be a little overwhelming but you can easily find easy recipes online. Start out simple. If you have a gas grill, it's easy to throw on a chicken breast or steak or fish. You can marinate them or season them. I usually cook a bunch of chicken breasts for my kids for the week. They add them to salads or make a sandwich with it or just have it for a snack.
But this is stuff for when you're feeling better. I really admire you for facing this and dealing with it now. You've had a tough road but .you can change it. You'll definitely need to find some aftercare, whether it's AA, NA or a therapist. Keep posting ... you've got a lot of cheerleaders here for you.
I'm hanging in there. trying to go from
.5 to .25mg twice a day. then when I hit .125 and can get one day with nothing ill take one last 0.125 and surrender to let go.
building up vitamins and supplements in the meantime. thank you for asking! -Gabriel
Hi..I just wanted to give you some support..You sound like you are a very wise guy. I am 57 and it took me over 40 years to get my Shiiit together..I am very proud of you..About a little over a year ago I came c/t off of Methadone..I do not have that ADHD so I was adding Adderral to my Methadone..it was legal crank for me..I would take the Klons at night to come down..Oh what a long ash detox this was to come off of all 3..I am no better then anyone else here and we all have had our ups & downs..You are Young and that just makes my day to see you want to get out..Stick around we are here and now you can join the team to help the next addict that comes around..You have some experience there for your age..I wish you the best..
I also had to order my vit/min in a natural liquid form..It works great.
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