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Been through Inpatient detox - need help
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Been through Inpatient detox - need help

I just completed 5 days of Hospital opiate inpatient detox. I was released 1 week ago with instructions to take 4mg of Suboxone film 3 times a day. Two days after I was released I started to have all the symptoms of withdrawal. I went back to the doctor that administrates the hospital detox program (who I have to see to receive suboxone refills) and he insisted that I was not in withdrawal and there must be something else wrong with me. He took X-rays of my stomach and said if I'm not better in a couple days to come back to see him; otherwise he gave me a script for 8mg suboxone twice a day and in answer to my question as to whether I needed more or less suboxone, he said he didn't know, but if I changed dosage to say on the changed dose 3 days. He then sent me on my way. Logically I thought maybe I needed more suboxone and started the 8mg last night. I planned to wait 12 hours before taking more, but woke up sick after only 10 hours. So I took another 8mg. It took about 6 hours to feel better. The same thing happened during the day and had to take another after only 10.75 hours after I had taken the last one. I had ask the doctor if I could just stop taking the Suboxone all together and he said I would go into terrible withdrawal. Is this true even after I did the in patient Detox? I DO NOT want to take any habit forming drugs and no matter what, I eventually want off Suboxone even if I can't just stop NOW! I got started on pain meds for chronic back pain, but I would trade the meds for the pain. Please help me with some good advice. Thanks much.
85 Comments Post a Comment
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1235186_tn?1339127464
congrats on going to the detox and wanting to reclaim your life.
what was your drug of choice, how long did you use and how much?
most times less subs is better.
subs are very strong.
withdrawal usually isnt gone in 5 days.
16 mgs is alot of subs.
how much of a script did they give you?
how long do they want you to stay on them?
were you abusing them or only dependent?
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1235186_tn?1339127464
let me clarify.
how long do they want you to stay on suboxone?
were you abusing your pain meds?
what type of symptoms are your having?
it would be better to treat your withdrawal symptoms
than stay on the suboxone.
your withdrawal symptoms will improve each day.
you will begin to typically feel better within a week or so.

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Avatar_m_tn
Thank you for your response.
I got started on pain meds because of DDD & spinal stenosis.

My drug of choice: Norco 10/325 4 times/day for 8 - 9 years then dependent and switched to oxymorephone working up to 40mg 2 times/day with percocet for break through pain as required, Sometimes 1, sometimes up to 4 /day. Did not abuse, only dependent for 3 years.

First script was for 4mg 3 times/day. Went back to see doctor 6 days after release and he said that he didn't think I was having withdrawal, but gave me a script for 8mg 2 times a day and said he didn't know if I needed more or less Suboxone. He felt 4mg 3 times a day was enough. He left it up to me to decide how much Sumboxone to take. I wish I didn't have to take any Suboxone! I can't stand the nausea, shakes, light headedness etc..

Thanks again.
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1198664_tn?1368651412
Suboxone does not agree with some people. I could not take it I tried ONCE. it was a disaster I felt like I was in WD and I did wait the time needed and everything.   I just quit you know. I have personally quit cold turkey multiple times on at least twice the amount of pain killers you were on. I'm sorry you had to go through all that in patient just to come out and have subs stick you like this. That's why I am totally against suboxone and methadone. I know it saves desperate people and have been there myself but it creates a whole other problem coming off of that stuff which is even WORSE then coming off of pain meds. And you are not truly clean while on them. You are still taking a synthetic opiate. That's just how I feel about them. I think you should have just stayed on the pain pills and slowly weened down. Or even just go cold turkey. Most people on here go that route. I have just found that trying to take the sub way out of it all does not always work. But cold turkey always works. And weening works good if you have the willpower.
I quickly got off of the suboxone, I actually went back to percocets and just stopped the suboxone and then weened down from the percs. But that's just me. That way I was just free of all of it. You are Going To experience some pain and suffering from even weening just depends how fast you taper. You can do it without the subs or inpatient. I have done this dozens of times. And yes it is a real batch. Staying clean forever is something I do NOT know about. But I am an expert on withdrawling.  It won't kill you, unless you have some crazy other condition you will not die from the withdrawls. You will just suffer a few weeks.
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Avatar_m_tn

Can I go back to the 4mg 3 times a day and what do I need to treat the nausea and shakes? Then after a few days can I step down to 4mg twice a day? I don't want to stay on Suboxone!!

Can I cut the 8mg film? The doctor said yes, but I read the Suboxone insert that said not to cut them.

Thanks more than you can know! Your info makes a lot of sense.
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480448_tn?1403547723
I would agree that probably most of your symptoms are related to being on too high a dose, versus not enough.  Most people, even those with very heavy habits, can be comfortably maintained on a pretty low dose.  Yes, you can cut the films.

My advice to you would be to try a lower dose, then like your doc said, stick with that for a few days, it DOES take some time to adjust to the subs.  4mg 3 times a day is a LOT of sub.  You could ask your doc about maybe even starting out with half of that daily dose, and that STILL may be too much.  What were you detoxed with in the facility?  Were they giving you Subs there too?  Again, ask your doc, but my personal, unofficial opinion is that you probably wouldn't need more than 8mg daily, and even that is pretty significant.

Best of luck to you!
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Avatar_m_tn
Thank you very much. In detox after they knew that it had been 24 hours since I had taken any opiates, I was given 2mg 3 times a day. The next day they upped it to 4 mg 3 times a day. That is what they sent me home on after completing detox. I am going to take your advice and reduce my dose. It would help if there was something I could take for the nausea and shakes.

I had gone back to see the doctor 2 days ago and he insisted that I was not going through any withdrawal and he didn't know if I needed less or more Sumboxone. He gave me a script for 8 mg.

Thanks again!
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1235186_tn?1339127464
for nausea take small sips of ginger ale. Eat bland foods, crackers,toast.
The shakes will subside. It will take time.
You can take magnesium tablets.Hot baths with epsom salts will help.
The light handedness comes from dehydration.
Make sure you are drinking plenty of fluids.
You will feel better each day.
Cut down on the subs.
You have been on the subs a week?
Praying for your healing,
Debbie
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Avatar_f_tn
Hey, I read through your post and some of the comments above.  I was taking subs for 7 years which was supposed to be for a heavy opiate addiction.  I should NOT have stayed on them that long, that's for sure!  From the detox I experienced off the subs, it's my understanding that detox off of straight opiates lasts 5/6 days, where sub detox lasted me 4/5 weeks, just the physical part.  If I were you, I'd just bite the bullet and finish the detox off of the pills minus the subs.  From the date you posted the first post, you should be on day 8 I think.  I started at 24 mg for the subs which from what I was told was WAY too high, just remember this, if you start taking the subs, your going to have to wean and w/d off of those too.  Do you want to w/d once or twice?  The tapering process off the subs is very slow and I was told you feel mild w/d while you taper????  Your choice, and again, I'm not a doctor, just a person who got sucked into subs and thought they were a miracle cure (they did prevent me from having opiate w/d's) however, no matter what....we ALL HAVE TO W/D!   In order to have everything out of us....we must go through it.  Good luck to you!
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Avatar_m_tn
Thank you and everyone else that have taken the time to try and help me. I really appreciate all the feedback!

I am going to cut back on the Sub and try and ween off completely over the next 2 weeks. I hope I have not become dependent on the Suboxone. I do not want to take any opiates.

Thanks again to everyone!
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Avatar_f_tn
I hear ya on not wanting to get a "new" addiction.  That's all we don't need!  While tapering, consider what type of aftercare your going to do, N/A, counseling, etc...  I do N/A now about 4 x's a week and it has helped tremendously~
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1198664_tn?1368651412
You may be going down a rough road staying on subs for two whole weeks. Like others and myself have said have you considered just stopping the subs and weening off of pills and biting the bullet? You are gonna start down a miserable path with those subs I'm afraid.
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Avatar_m_tn
I really struggle with many posts here regarding Suboxone. After a long time opiate addiction I was put on 4 films 32 mg each day. I took the entire dose at 6 am in the morning and was good until the next morning. They saved my life and I started to feel normal with zero side effects. That was years ago. I than began to come down and over a period of time went from 32 mg to 8mg with zero WD's. I am a firm believer that a slow taper works and is wonder also why people break up their doses since Suboxine has a long half life. I've read so many horror stories about subs but I've also read a lot of stories just like mine. It leaves me very confused.
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Avatar_f_tn
I hear ya...and I've read on here, for some people, the slow taper works....Just not for me. We're all different, no biggie.  But I will tell you I've NEVER heard of taking the whole dose at one time.  I was told, and it was on my RX bottle, to take 8mg, 3 times a day.  Never said anything about taking it all at one time? That's new to me.  I just think back to when I was doing opiates, how many times I tried to taper and just couldn't.  The amount of $$ and time wasted on the subs was ridiculous and honestly, should I have just gone c/t off the opiates then gotten my *** to a meeting?  I was never told to do counseling or N/A while taking the subs.  I know that I am one that is totally against the subs and some people, they work.  I think everyone is different and we just have to do whats best for us!  Maybe your just lucky! :)
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1235186_tn?1339127464
Good morning. How are you feeling today?
Keep moving forward.
Keep the faith.
You are healing.
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks very much for your encouragement. I dropped down to 4mg Subs on Thursday night. Took 4mg at the same time Friday night. This morning at 1:45 am I took 2 Ginger Root caps for the nausea and fell back asleep. Took more ginger this morning. The nausea and shakes are my worst symptoms.

I don't know how soon to step down to 2mg Sub. I don't want to stay on Sub so long that I become dependent on it! I hope I'm not already dependent. It has been 2 weeks today when I was first given Subs during my inpatient detox and then after.

Thanks again.
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1579159_tn?1388706849
You are doing great!  I know you want this over with but try to drop slow, it really helps with the withdrawal.  Allow your body to get adjusted to the 4mg and then i suggest dropping again.  I did a slow and steady taper off subs and still experienced the WD but i went slow.  Good luck to you, keep pushing forward.....
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Avatar_m_tn
This is my 4th day on 4mg Sub. This morning I feel more nausea than the last few days. When should I drop to 2mg? You are correct . . . I just want this over, but I am being patient. I don't trust the detox MD, but I feel like I'm not sure if I'm doing this correctly. Thank goodness for all you folks on the forum!

Thank you all.
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1235186_tn?1339127464
You should be able to drop again. It probably just doesn't agree with you or else the dose is still too high. Subs are very, very strong.
Did you already dose for today?
Does your nausea last all day and night?
Praying for you
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Avatar_n_tn
Odd to me that after 5 days still on suboxone. Would think you wouldn't need those 5 days in the hospital to end up on suboxone.
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Avatar_m_tn
The Detox doctor said it would take 1 year to wean me off the sub. I do not want to stay on sub if I don't have to. I am dosing at 9pm and it is lasting until the next night. I think I'll drop to 2mg tonight. After that I'm not sure how long to stay on 2mg and when to stop all together.

Thanks again.
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3197167_tn?1348972206
Hi there, JB....I just now have read through this whole thread and find myself REALLY relating to you.  I became addicted to pain meds due to numerous medical crises in my life and when the time came to get off of them, I was referred to a sub dr. and ignorantly went on subs and ignorantly jumped off the subs.

I wanted to share a conversion chart I found here on MedHelp that shows you how much suboxone (buprenorphine or it's nickname "bupe") is equivalent (approximately of course) to many of the pain meds.  I think it will help you...it sure did me!

Conversion table other drugs equivalent to sub  

Jul 24, 2008 from Avisg's Journal

#Pain Killer Equivalent Doses (Oral)
1.2mg.............Buprenorphine (Bupe)
200mg............Codeine (Tylenol 2, 3, 4, etc)
30-60mg.........Diacetylmorphine (Heroin) (orally it = morphine, IV/IM/insuffilated it's 2x as strong)
100mg............Dihydrocodeine
30mg..............Hydrocodone (Vicodin, Lorcet, etc)
7.5mg.............Hydromorphone (Dilaudid)
37.5µg............Fentanyl (not sure on this one, anyone know the oral dose equivalence for Fentanyl?)
4mg................Levorphanol (Dromoran)
300mg............Meperidine (Demerol)
10-20mg.........Methadone
30-60mg.........Morphine
20mg..............Oxycodone (Oxycontin, Percocet)
10mg..............Oxymorphone (Numorphan)
200-300mg.....Propoxyphene (Darvocet)
150mg............Tramadol (Ultram, Ultracet)
**************************************************************************************Now, from what I've read above, for 8-9 yrs you were on 40 mg a day of Norco/hydrocodone....then were switched to oxymorphone...I think that's right.  Here's what you said above:

"My drug of choice: Norco 10/325 4 times/day for 8 - 9 years then dependent and switched to oxymorephone working up to 40mg 2 times/day with percocet for break through pain as required, Sometimes 1, sometimes up to 4 /day. Did not abuse, only dependent for 3 years. "

So when you went to inpatient detox you were on 80 mg (total) of oxymorphone/day and using Percocet/oxycodone for break thru pain, right?

The equivalency chart should help you to see how much sub is = to your total day's dose.  You have a HUGE advantage over me, JB, because I didn't find MedHelp until I was already off the huge sub dose the sub dr put me on.  I was on about 100 mg/day of hydrocodone when he saw me and he put me on 16 mg per day of suboxone...that is = to 480 mg of hydro!!!!
More than I was on when taking the pills.....The whole ordeal was a VERY BAD experience for me....and after finding MedHelp I realized what I had been thru was just plain CRAZY!!!  

I see above that there are some varied opinions about HOW you dose your sub....once a day or split doses.....I read the Rx info sheet from the mfr of subs with a fine tooth comb when I was on it and it clearly states you can do "either".....take it all in one dose or split your doses.

Another thing, JB, is that our age must be taken into consideration, too.
At your age, I would think "less" would be better than "more" because we metabolize all drugs differently as we get older.  Just a thought, ok?

I'm sorry we cannot tell you exactly when and how to reduce your sub dose....just know that because it is a synthetic form of opioid, it takes about 21 days to totally get it out of your system once you stop taking it.

I was only on subs a total of 28 days.  I didn't go "on it" correctly....my dose was WAY too high....and I jumped off at 16 mg/day which was just NUTS!!
(but I didn't know it then..LOL)

I commend you for what you are doing! Please keep talking to us and asking questions.  You are SO fortunate to have this forum NOW.  I have learned WAY MORE from participating in this forum than I ever did from my doctors.
Hang in there ok?  Your pain levels may increase when you go totally off the subs.....but that is due to rebound pain from nothing being on your opiate receptors.  It will level out...and your pain should lessen in time.

I wish you only the best....sorry for such a long post....but I thought knowing all of this might help you.
Blessings,
Connie  

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Avatar_f_tn
Hi,
     I dont know if it would be helpful for you to read what happened to me in my last post. I became very sick in January  after a 2 week detox at an addictions clinic and was hospitalised for 4 days. I have been codeine free for 15 weeks today. I live in Northern Ireland and i sometimes get confused on here as we have different names for the same drugs. I fully understand your frustration with being 'fobbed off' by doctors who cant tell you what or why you got so sick. The doctors in hospital kept telling me 'withdrawals'  even though id told them id detoxed 2 weeks before. Keep well .xx.
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Avatar_m_tn
Hello I'm just now to the point I'm ready to get clean I have been on Narcos  for 5-6 years up to 15 a day my question is this I'm afraid to ask my DR for sub because he is the one who has been prescribing them to me, He gave me 180 a month of cores I had to buy extra is he going to get mad at me and not help me he is the only DR in my area that will prescribe subs. Will he still help me or will he just kick my out when I finally tell him the truth I need help I cant go on anymore. Also will i be able to function at work i could take a 2 week vacation i have 6 weeks coming to me. Any help would be great thank you  
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Avatar_m_tn
I truly want to thank everyone that has taken the time to try and help me. It is so good to know that there are still people that want to help without getting the all mighty dollar. This sight has helped beyond anyone can realize. Last night I dropped to 2mg sub. Today my worst symptoms are nausea and rubbery legs.

I plan to stay on 2mg for 3 days and then down to 1mg. Will see how I feel then.

Thanks again!
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1235186_tn?1339127464
you are doing great.  you are keeping up the ginger root?
eating a light diet? stay hydrated?
get some exercise in. light walking.
just a little more time my friend.
keep the faith.
you are healing.
keep up the good work.
you are welcome. we are glad you found us.
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Avatar_m_tn
Well another day closer . . . I hope.

Last night I cut back to 1mg Subs. Today I still am nauseous and a bit shaky. Am still taking ginger root for the nausea.

With mild withdrawal symptoms, I don't know if the withdrawal is from the opiates I was on or the subs?? Should I just quit the Subs? If so, how long will I have some withdrawal symptoms? I realize that this is a difficult question since everyone is different. I'm worried that I will become dependent on the Subs!

Once Again . . . . Thank you all!
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1235186_tn?1339127464
great job. I believe it was around april 5th or so that you started the subs?
so that would be just about 3 weeks.
so do with 1mg as you did with mgs then stop.
it is hard to tell if the withdrawal would be from the subs or the opiates.
either way once you stop then you will really start to withdrawal.
prayerfully the withdrawal symptoms wont increase.
how is your pain level been?
how is your appetite?
you have done amazing.
congrats.
prayers for continued healing.
Debbie
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Avatar_m_tn
Hi ....well your in a catch 22 if you take the sub you will feel better but you also will eventually need to detox off the sub some of our member often say less is better my advise is jump off the sub and just detox b/4 it really get a hold of you most people go threw some form of withdrawals coming off sub  just know it will get worst the longer your on it more members will come along with suggestions
............Gnarly............
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Avatar_m_tn
I have been dosing once a day at 9pm. I have been on 1mg sub for the last 2 days and have been experiencing nausea and shakiness. Ginger root seems to help the nausea some.

Last night I decided to not take any Sub. Woke up at 12am getting pretty sick ( nausea & shakes). I gave in and took 1mg Sub to see if the withdrawal affects would be reduced and they did. I think that this indicates that I'm already dependent on Subs. Been on it for 3 weeks today which includes the time I was in the hospital for detox. It has been 3 weeks yesterday since I have taken any opiates (they waited 24 hours from the time I last took opiates before starting the Subs at Detox).

Today I pretty much feel like I have for the past few days. I probably would feel better if I took 2mg of Sub a day, but I really DON'T want to take any opiates!! I thought that once I went through the detox that the worst withdrawal would be over!! Do I have to go through more bad withdrawal to rid myself of this horrible stuff?

Once again, I thank you all.
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1235186_tn?1339127464
Oh I am so sorry. Yes there is definitely going to be more withdrawal. Definitely do not go back up on your dose. Reduce down from the 1mg.
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Avatar_m_tn
Thank you very much. How much time do you think there should be between each step-down? 3days or less/more. I was subscribed 8mg film. Am cutting to lower dose. Even 1 mg is a pretty small piece.

Thanks again.
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Avatar_m_tn
I'm still very nauseous so I'm sticking with 1mg Sub.Still taking ginger root. Do you think I will start to have less withdrawal staying on 1mg.? I thought if I started to feel better, then I would cut back again.

Really not sure what to do and when to do it.

Sure will be glad when this is over!  Thanks.
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Avatar_f_tn
How long have you been taking the 1mg???  Couple of days??? The sub taper has to be VVVEEERRRYYY slow!
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for your response.

Today is the 6th day on 1mg. Sub.
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Avatar_m_tn
I think I dropped too fast. I was on 12mg. in detox. Then I was released on 12mg. After 2 days out of detox I started to get sick. Dropped to 4 mg for about a week. Felt better, and then dropped to 2mg for 2 days. Then I went to 1mg.6 days ago.

I thought that the worst was over when I went through detox. I think now I am dependent on Subs.
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1235186_tn?1339127464
How are you feeling ?
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Avatar_m_tn
Hello . . . I'm still hanging in there. I'm still on 1mg Sub. and still some nausea, shaky and hoping this will end soon.

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Avatar_m_tn
Thamk you. I will follow your advice. You are correct . . . . my withdrawal is not getting better. It is staying the same.

Thanks again.
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Avatar_f_tn
Absolutely!  From what I've heard the slower the better.  Try to keep it at the 1mg, meaning don't go upwards!  Sometimes I wonder if Dr's are really schooled on how the subs work, how they affect people, how easy they are to become dependant,???  Keep yourself safe, and definitely continue to taper.  Keep us posted as to what you plan to do!  
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Avatar_m_tn
Yesterday was day 3 of ½mg. Sub. I dose each day at 9pm. In the afternoon yesterday I became sicker. More nauseous, light headed and shaky. I finally dosed off and woke up at a little after 9pm. I had cut a 4mg. film in 8 pieces so I took what I thought was 1 piece. It took about 20 minutes and the sickness declined. I counted how many pieces were left and only had 6. What I took must have been 2 stuck together which meant I had 1 mg.. I will have to be more careful!

I didn't sleep very much last night and towards morning I started to get pretty sick. I am totally confused. I thought this would get easier as I tapered off??

Can anyone explain what "halftime" means and how it affects getting off Subs. I understand that the halftime for Sub is 36 hours.

Thanks again.
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Avatar_m_tn
Excuse me.how does Na help?I'm on subs.just started.thank u
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Avatar_m_tn
Hi . . .

Thanks for your thorough response. If the halftime for Subs is 36 hours, do you know why it takes so long (21 days) to get the drug out of your system when you finally stop taking it?

I can't imagine how tough it was for you jumping off at 16mg/day!

I'm still on ½mg/day and getting ready to drop to ¼. Still don't feel normal and I guess I have a good way to go yet.

Thanks so much for your encouragement.
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1235186_tn?1339127464
Hi D I am so sorry you are going through this.
I found this thread. Hopefully it h else poo s explaining the half life.


http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Addiction-Substance-Abuse/SUBOXONE---half-life/show/671458
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Avatar_f_tn
Sorry, I'm a bit slow....lol
I find N/A helps quite a bit.  I started going around the end of Jan, was still very dope sick, and at least 20 women came up to me after the meeting, gave me their phone numbers and told me whatever I do, pick up the phone and call one of them before I decided to use.  Now, at the time, there was NO WAY IN HELL I was calling any of these women I didn't know....but it let me know they knew exactly where I was at. (You could tell I was sick, and I stunk!)  It was very embarrassing, but they all befriended me.  The N/A book makes a lot of sense to me!  It's not the drugs or the alcohol, it's the way my brain thinks!  I get a lot of support from people that are clean....and that does help.  I'm still not a very big talker in the meetings but I've made some very good women friends that I find are always there for me, and I them!  I'm relearning how to cope...instead of numbing myself out, hitting it head on!  Life on life's terms, if that makes sense?
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Avatar_n_tn
I agree with backtome. Before recovery I went thru wd"s many times and one thing I learned is that the only thing that stops opiate wd"s is more opiates just different names. If possible stopping the wd"s using norcos then weaning down the norcos is probably the easiest way (easy lol), thats if you can wean. I do know that biting the bullet for a week or so is very hard but better then using till you start thinking about doing something with the bullet.
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Avatar_m_tn
Hello again. I am still not feeling very good. Been on ¼ mg sub for 2 days. Last night I started to get a lot more sick and gave in to take a ½ mg sub. Today I feel worse than the last several days. The withdrawal symptoms don't seem to be lessoning as much as I had hoped. Some days not at all! I would like to stop the subs altogether, but don't seem to be able to resist giving in to the terrible sick feeling!

Is it true that in order to get better and not feel sick anymore, at some point I will have to endure the horrible sickness for many days?

I thought that when I went in to the hospital for detox that the worst of the withdrawal would be over, but this seems to be dragging on so long. At this point I don't know if the withdrawal that I am feeling is from the Subs or all the Opiates I took for 13 years? I have no faith in the doctors that do the after detox followup, I pointed that out in an earlier post. I won't go back to them.

Thanks again.
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1235186_tn?1339127464
I am so sorry to say that you would have been much better off to taper at home and detox yourself. Unfortunately you are now dependent on the subs. They are synthetic and take longer to detox from.
But yes Hun the sooner you stop the sooner you will start to totally detox. Will it get worse better it gets better? More than likely.
But to keep going up on the dose when you feel withdrawal is not helping.
Please stop now and endure a few days of increased withdrawal.
Then the real detox will begin.
I am sorry that you went into the detox you only were doing as most people do. I wish you would have found us first.
Praying for your healing,
Hugs,
Debbie
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Avatar_m_tn
I went to 0 subs last night. So far so good. Am sick, but hanging in and hoping this doesn't last too many days before getting easier!!

Thanks for all your good advice.
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Avatar_f_tn
Awesome man!  Glad to hear your off those subs and you did a damn get job tapering! something I could NOT do.  Just hang in there, it'll be over soon and you'll feel so much better once your done this crap!  Not many people stick it out so when I see someone that actually does, I find it inspiring!  Bad ***!!!!   Keep moving forward! Keep us up to date...
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for your encouragement!!

Am I correct in thinking that it will get worse before it gets better?

This is tough.
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Avatar_f_tn
Just,read ur comment and wondered how long the low energy am depression lasts.  Was on 600 mg ms contin and 80 Percy's for breakthrough pain. On that much for a year but on ms contin 60 and 30 percs off amd on for 8 years. Tapered myself down to 15 mg ir morphine and have had NO opiate 8 days now. Still feel like cant breathe after walking 3 steps. Super depression and I have kiddos who need me. U sound like u know what ur talking about. I was on for back neck and shoulders injuries amd hane NO desire to toke that withdrew road again. I thrashed around so much in bed I literally have rubbed off the outter layer of skin on sides of arms amd legs. Nasty. Just thought I would be feeling a bit better by now. Some one please help. Peace to u thx
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Oh what an awesome update. Great job D.
Don't anticipate the worst. Don't let fear in.
It might not get worse.
It might stay the same.
It will get gradually better.
You did an awesome job tapering.
Keep treating the symptoms. Make sure you are aging hydrating,
Drink protein shakes, take vitamins, move around as much as possible.
You are detoxing now. You are on the up swing.
Praying for your healing
Debbie
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Avatar_m_tn
I wish I could help you. This is my first attempt to rid myself of opiates. Been sick for 5 weeks after going through hospital detox for opiates. They used Suboxone to get me off opiates. They kept me on the subs too long and I am now dependent on Subs. I just went to 0 subs Saturday night and am very sick.

Your best bet for help is to post a new thread on this forum. There are many knowledgeable people that will try and help you.

Good luck.
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Avatar_m_tn
Hello again. Today I am sicker, but hanging in there. Do you have a feel for how long it will take to start feeling better?

I know I am inpatient, but this is awful!

Thanks so much for your help!
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1235186_tn?1339127464
you are doing great. you are healing each day.
actually you have been very patient.
what are your worst symptoms?
are you able to eat?
stay hydrated?
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Avatar_m_tn
Hi,

I am very shaky, lot of nausea and weak. I am taking Ginger Root  and Emotrol for nausea. I am eating a little bland food (hard boiled eggs, bagels) and trying to drink a lot of water. I will try and have a friend get me some protein powder. Used to workout a lot and used Syntha-6 which is highly rated and tastes good. I live alone and right now I feel too sick to go to the store.
I sure wish I would not have gone into detox. I thought since it was at a good size hospital that I was doing the right thing. My primary care doctor is the one who had been giving me stronger opiates each time I became tolerant and who suggested that I find a doctor who could write Suboxone scripts.
I sent for some test strips so I can test my urine for the presence of Opiates and Suboxone. I realize that suboxone has such a long half-life that as you take it each day, I think it compounds in your system and even though I tapered off to 0, my body must be still craving the drug.

Thank you again.

  
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Please let me know where we can acquire the 7 day detox pills?????????
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1235186_tn?1339127464
oh my friend, how are you feeling?
unfortunately there is no such 7 day detox pill.
everyone would want it.
I am sorry you are going through this.
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Hi, JB!  Congrats on 7 whole days completely off the subs!!

You have no idea how much I can relate to you...my primary care recommended subs, too.  You have a WHOLE WEEK now without any opioid of any kind in your body and the healing has begun.  Remember, it takes about 21 total days for our bodies to purge all remnants of the subs....

I know you said you were feeling impatient....and that's to be understood too.  You "thought" you were going to have a much easier time than it has turned out to be.....and so did I.  I didn't learn all about subs until I was 55 days off my pills and had finally found this forum.  I have learned more about subs by being on this forum that anywhere else!  It is my opinion that many dr's out there recommend subs but have no idea what the conversion equivalent should be (as noted in the info I shared above).

It's good that you are staying hydrated....and beginning to eat small amounts....the more small protein snacks you can get into you the better....they help heal the brain and assist in our recovery.  I got on this "egg" crusade and actually craved them.  Also, string cheese, apples, tuna, turkey, any kind of protein drink (I liked Carnation's Instant Breakfast), a drink with some electrolytes will help too.  I found the Revive flavor of the Vitamin water to be really good.....I was initially w/drawing during the Summer months....so I would put one in the freezer for a bit and then enjoy a slushy that was full of vitamins and electrolytes.

There is no such thing as "detox pills"....I wasn't sure what you were referring to?  If you can take some short walks...that will help, too.  Get some sunshine on your face.....even if you just sit outside and soak up nature from a chair.

I'm rootin for you.....a week behind you now....you've learned a lot....and you are healing......good on ya, JB!
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hey D you are healing.  you are eliminating the subs now.
just a bit longer. keep on keepin on.
have your symptoms improved at all?
were you able to have someone get the protein powder?
congrats on 7 days my friend.
great job on eating, it will help you feel better.
get outside for some walks and sunshine.
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Avatar_f_tn
Listen to these people, they know what they're talking about.  The above posters have told you the truth! I was so grateful to these people for telling me truth while going through this crap b/c I thought I was going crazy....I was like, WTF?????  They are absolutely right when they say 3/4 weeks with the subs, they are stronger and stay in our systems longer! One thing I did find that helped tremendously was the Epsom Salt baths, when my body temp was going up and down and I had gone to the "toilet" so many freakin times, it was in the tub for a soak. I would put in my earbuds, put on Pandora, soak and try like hell to get out of my head, and it did help!  Remember, nothing to try and substitute the missing energy for now, b/c that will only make the "anxiety", or "waves" as I liked to call them worse!  AuNatural....the way to go and you will start to feel better soon.   High protein foods (even though I had NO APPETITE) you must eat!  Hang in there, it will start getting better before you know it.  When I couldn't think I could go one more step, I would go into the bathroom and look at myself in the mirror and tell myself, I can do this! I am strong!  We are all strong....you know you are stronger than the subs!  :)
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1235186_tn?1339127464
10 days out. Praying & hoping you are feeling some what better.
The light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter.
Keep the faith.
Hugs
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I hate to admit it, but after 6 days I gave in, Taking ½ mg in morning & night. I am planning to try again. I think I know a lot more now thanks to you all!

I now know why so many people fail. I t is really tough. I bought some strips to test my urine and at day 6 no opiate, but still showing subs even after 6 days at 0!

I am getting my head ready to try again, Will taper slower and see what happens.

Thanks for everyones help!
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Glad to see u post again. Man, it is hard! This is definatly not a cake walk. This might sound stupid butttt, u have to dig real deep and find the strength that we all have, we just don't think we do. This was one of the hardest things I've ever done. About 8 days in my husband was wanting to take me to the ER and there was no way I was going t here, for what, w/d off of drugs.??? I had to yell at myself, scream at myself, I'm strong, I am bad ***, I can do this! I know u can so do this. Get all if the vitamins listed, stock up on that gatorade, I used protein shakes otherwise I wouldn't have eaten at all, get the immodium, and get up and do it again!
Don't take these subs any longer, b/c it will only get harder and then you'll be right back where you started, addicted! Keep posting, I know u can do this!
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hey D, yes it is going to take time. you are going to have to endure the detox. if you continue to take the subs it is going to get even harder to get off of them. instead of a Norco and perc addiction now it is subs.
much longer and harder detox as you are finding out.

once again I am so sorry the detox center put you on the subs when you came home.

please, please stop the subs. get to some meetings, counseling something to help you locally during the initial month it will take. you need constant
encouragment.
at 7 days you were 1/3 of the way there.
don't let subs be an option. please stick it out. move forward instead of
backwards. you can do this. hard? yes, but you need to break the chains and bondage of this addiction.
praying for you
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1235186_tn?1339127464
Hey D what's going on? Please don't isolate. Talk to us. We care and
Want to see you heal.
You are in my thoughts and prayers
Debbie
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Any word from him/her? I know he was feeling like garbage! I really hope he comes back...
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Well it has been a while. I went to see my neurosurgeon. It has been 7 years since I saw him last. He had very good news. The procedure I need has been significantly improved. Less invasive, much higher success rate (80 - 90%), and a much shorter recovery period! This is a very large and highly regarded university hospital. The neurosurgeon is also very highly regarded.

I have agreed to the surgery in july and have been promised that they will only keep me on opiates not long enough to become dependent.
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Hello again,

Well it has been a while. I went to see my neurosurgeon. It has been 7 years since I saw him last. He had very good news. The procedure I need has been significantly improved. Less invasive, much higher success rate (80 - 90%), and a much shorter recovery period! This is a very large and highly regarded university hospital. The neurosurgeon is also very highly regarded.

I have agreed to the surgery in july and have been promised that they will only keep me on opiates not long enough to become dependent.
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Have you heard anything good or bad about Maple Grove which is associated with Henry Ford.
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Do you know anything good or bad about Henry Ford's Maple Grove detox facility?

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Do you know anything good or bad about Henry Ford's Maple Grove detox facility?

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Do you know anything good or bad about Henry Ford's Maple Grove detox facility?
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I have screwed up something which won't let me post.
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1235186_tn?1339127464
hey jb we can see your post. i am happy for you that you can get surgery.

do you plan to still be on it leading up to your surgery?


if so, you will need to let your doctor know that you are on suboxone?
there is a protocol that needs to be in place so you can get relief from
the opiates given to you after surgery.

how are you feeling? have you tried to wean down anymore on the subs?
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I would like to get off the subs altogether, but don't know how. After 6 days I gave in to the horrible discomfort. I've actually thought of going back on opiates and taper very slowly, even if it takes several years.

I was so week and unstable that I went to a major hospital ER. They did blood and urine analysis and said everything was fine except I was a little low in potassium. I gave them accurate records of my daily intake since beginning Detox. They sent me home with a script for potassium.
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I got your message. Don't know if you got my response. My computer is all screwed up with password  problems. Not sure, but my mind is not working to help myself get this all corrected. I can't believe what's happened to me in the last 5 or 6 months. Life has become very difficult and I don't know how to help myself or get reliable help from someone else that I could trust.

Thanks your past help. J.
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Just my two cents worth to the suboxone questions/issues. I had an allergic reaction to that stuff years ago. Extreme nausea, migraine, vomiting. It was a nightmare.
So if you get very ill from it, it is possible that you are allergic or cannot tolerate it. I couldn't handle the tiniest doses.
Hope this helps.
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Hi,

I'm scheduled for lower back surgery July 23 at U of M in Ann Arbor. Their pain clinic does not dispense suboxone so they referred me to a local Pain Mgmt outfit. U of M doctor wanted me off before surgery. Then they were going to use Opiates temporarily and then back on the subs. Not what I want. I suggested that just taper me of the Opiates after surgery. Hopefully by then I would be off subs long enough to not go through withdrawal. When went to the Pain Clinic they wanted me to start taking 2mg 3 times a day right away. I didn't do it at first and the I thought maybe I should follow their instructions even though it didn't make sense to me. Dummy me, I tried 2mg 2 X 1 day and 1 X the next and decided this crazy when I want off completely. I went back to ½mg a day and now after going back for about a week I am going through mild withdrawal. I read you should stop subs at least 3 days before surgery and immediately start true Opiates, which will have to be stronger because of the subs in your system. I'm running out of time. I am calling the doctors office tomorrow. We have to establish the strategy they want to follow or I am going to postpone the surgery until I can get off subs without any withdrawal no matter how long it takes or just cancel it all together and handle slowly tapering further down on the subs myself.

I think I should have the surgery and deal with tapering of the opiates myself and not go back on subs. I'm just afraid I'll end up hooked on BOTH!

This has been awful for months and I don't think sub doctors want you to get off! None of them will help. It seems as though all the major hospitals want nothing to do with subs. I really screwed up going through Opiate
Detox at st Marys hospital. The surgeon said they have made advances in the surgery I need making it less invasive, faster recovery and much greater success. My primary care doctor gave a script for 10/325 hydrocodone which I took at the same time I took ½mg sub and the hydro seem not to help my pain at all. I only took it twice since it didn't seem to help.

As you can tell, I'm hitting bottom!

Thanks again of r all you input. My computer is still not functioning very well but my mind is not functioning very well either and I can't seem to fix it. Right now that is secondary.   .
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I had hernia surgery in Nov 2013 and I told the drs upfront about the subs and they did not tell me I had to be off of them for a week before the surgery? In fact, they told me to take my normal piece in the a.m. before the surgery???? Then used the Subs as pain reliever afterwards? Did your Dr tell u this?
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Hi there-

Holy man you've been through one heck of a journey.  I've been following you- haven't chimed in because you were getting excellent support and I don't know much about subs.  From what i DO know from this forum is this- If I were in your position I would continue the taper and then just go back to straight up opiates for surgery and afterwards.  Tapering off opiates seems to be much easier and they are also easier to c/t.  However, I'm not in a position of knowledge to advise you so I just want to give you my support.
The good news about hitting bottom is that the only way to go is up (:
I know it doesn't feel like it right now, but you WILL get through this and at the end you will feel so much better.  You will have gained much wisdom and strength from the ordeal that you have endured.
My best piece of advice is this-
Treat yourself as kindly and gently as possible.  Do not be hard on yourself about the drugs.  You have a surgery and serious things happening and you deserve to have it go as smoothly and easily as possible.  You can deal with getting off the drugs later.  You can come up with a good plan with your doctor and loved ones, and I would suggest some counselling.
I sought addictions counselling but also CBT and EMDR for PTSD after I got clean.  I had a great deal of trauma both from the abusive marriage I'd left that started me abusing my pills, and the medical trauma I'd endured over a 6 year period with 3 surgeries and crazy drug treatments for my chronic illness that caused me two near death experiences.

I wish you well, send my support and cyber hugs...
Lu
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1235186_tn?1339127464
hey JB nice to see you.
you are taking 1/2 mg a day of the subs?
or did you recently stop?
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I had back surgery 7/23 and am doing very good so far. Haven't had any subs since ½ mg 3 days before surgery. They put me on 5mg ms cont twice a day and 5 mg oxy for break through pain. I am progressing good from the surgery and see the surgeon on 8/18. I am trying not to take the oxy unless the pain is pretty bad. I plan to start to tapper off the opiates in the next few days. Don't want to get hooked again! I hope that as I tapper from the opiates that the subs don't rear their ugly head! I think soon I will be free of it all. The surgery went well and am healing really good considering 5 hours surgery and my age. Thanks for all your support for many months. I hope I'm done with this.
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i am so happy to read this. i was overjoyed to receive your message as well. you are more than welcome. so glad to be able to be here for you.
congratulations on 18 days clean from the subs. i am so proud of you for taking the plunge.
so happy you got the surgery.
yes now that you have had the surgery your real healing will begin.
you are on a low dose of opiates so you will do just fine in your taper.

the subs take 21 days to leave your system so you are very close to that day. they will no longer be a concern.
continued healing and prayers,
Deibble
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