Benzodiazpine Withdrawal

[bar]

Anyone have any experience with this?

[tom to BAR]

as the duke would say, "listen, and listen good ..."

I hate using caps in a post, but I'm going to anyway:

YOU MUST NOT GO OFF OF BENZOS COLD TURKEY -- EVER.

You're risking a horrible seizure if what you've done is run out after using benzos on a daily basis, and now are just going cold turkey. A benzo withdrawal seizure can leave you a cold turkey.

It's common knowledge that you must be tapered down from benzos or risk a life-threatening seizure. I've been through one. I came within a hairs breath of dying. The vigilance of my sweet wife is the only reason I am alive. We're not just talking about being uncomfortable or sweating or having the runs. We're talking about a grandmalle seizure that can kill you or leave you permanently maimed. I have 3 compressed vetebra in my upper back because benzo seizure causes your chest muscles to go into violent contraction -- while you're unconscious and busy trying to swallow your tongue -- for hours and hours, if it happens at night when no one is there to notice, you're screwed. I know a nurse who bit her entire tongue off during a valium withdrawal seizure.

MAN, GET HELP NOW. Get back on your benzo and have the doctor work out a slow taper schedule for you. DO IT NOW.

I've warned you in the strongest language I know. After I came to and was sent home from the hospital, my chest muscles were so damaged I had to spend the next two weeks crawling to the bathroom on my hands and knees. I hope that's graphic enough to get through to you. Good Luck.

[tom to BAR]

I forgot to add ...it's friday night. You probably won't reach your doctor on the phone. This is so serious that you should go to an ER, tell them what you've be on and how much. They get benzo seizures all the time coming into the ER. Unless the attending doc is an idiot, he'll give you enough to get you to Monday so you can reach your own doc. But do something, BAR, or your ass is grass (that's a medical term). Good Luck.

[Frankinscense]

Tom,
Well said. Did you mention that a competent physician is needed to assist in benzodiazepine detox,lowering of dose and any dose adjustment. I just wanted to add this bit of info. Dan....
                                                                                                                                   Gina,
Please read what I wrote to you under the response to a person named methadist. You were enquiring about street methadone.
                                                    Dan...

[Gina]

Thank you so much for your sincere concern and caring. In all honesty, I was only interested from a social workers perspective. Seriously, maybe I shouldn't concern myself with such things, but I never had a street "connection". I had one "friend" who needed money and I needed her pills so it worked out nicely. I really think the MMT is going to work out well. Thanks to all of your informative posts. I know people gave you a hard time about being so one-sided,(if that's even the right word), but I admire you standing up for a program that is working for you. You have done your research and know that it has helped a lot of other people, even saving lives. Do you mind me asking how old you are? What drugs did you use before you started MMT in 1996? Are you in the process of detoxing, if so how many mgs were you up to as I know you are on 60mgs now,like me. Thanks Dan, I even told my counselor about you and this forum.

[tom to Doc Dan]

hey, I think you missed a question I posted to you on another thread. I'll repeat it here:

what do you think of the new federal reg info posted on the Lindsmith site?

It's a final ruling from the Department of Health and Human Services, entitled "Opioid drugs in maintenance and detoxification treatment of opiate addiction" 21 CFR Part 291 and 42 CFR part 8.

I'm sure you know what I mean. I believe it's under their News page. Its a very offical looking "final" decision on how doctors will be able to get certified to treat opiate addiction with methadone and LAAM.

From what I got out of it, it takes effect in March of this year and takes the certification control away from the DEA and gives it to a body called, as I recall, SAMHSA. Apparently, while it will be easier and faster for doctors to get certified to prescribe methadone for addiction, the doctors will still have to be associated in some way with an OTC. I don't know how "associated" a doctor has to be with a treatment center, but it dramatically expands the avilablility of methadone at least from drug treatment centers or practices. I'd certainly like other sources than the hardcore centers in Santa Ana California, my stomping grounds. If that makes me a snob, than so be it. If I'm going to go to a center for something I might be on for the rest of my life, I want to feel comfortable and secure going there. The two I visited just don't meet that requirement. They concentrate on heroin addicts in desperate legal, social and economic states. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone deserves to be helped.

Anyway, if you can't find it on the site (I doubt that will be the case), post your e-mail address and I'll send the PDF of the document to you. I'm really interested to get your interpretation of what is clearly a significant change in the law.

If you haven't read it, do so. Or reporst your e-mail address

[tom to J.B.]

I posted something for you on the "Why we cant stop" thread. Didn't want you to miss it. It's way down the list on a fairly old thread. Peace to you and regards to Marty. I think of her often and the struggle she is having with that goddamn disease. I'm not really religious, so I don't know if it counts as a prayer, but she has someone out there in me who "knows' her through you and is sending out healing wishes to her every single day.

[Frankinscense]

Did you all read my post under Neurontin heading. It explains my outcome from my doc on my pain issues. MMT and optimum pain relief if you please. Anyone heard of hycotuss exp?
Dan,,

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yes, I read your post a couple of days ago but don't know what to think about it.  It sounded like your methadone was dosed just enough to keep you from craving opiates but not adequate for severe pain.  I know that methadone is a pretty powerful analgestic like morphine and that your body does build up a high tolerence to it eventually.  I've also heard that people will actually go through withdrawals until the correct dose is determined.  At any rate, methadone or not, if you need relief from the pain you are experiencing you should have it.

About the Hycotuss, it sounds something like Tussionex which is a hydrocodone laced cough syrup.  I've had it for bronchitis and pnuemonia (pneumonia) is the past and it is pretty powerful stuff.  I made the mistake of drinking the whole bottle in one day and WOW!  Are you taking it now?

[Gina]

Aaahh, hycotuss one of my favorites. It is hydrocodone (vicodin) 5mgs per teaspoon. I used to swig it from the bottle and get the warm fuzzys. That was one of the first meds that I abused. I remember taking it and having the energy to do anything and everything. Dan--when you get a chance would you please answer my questions on one of the other threads? Thanks! My all time favorite is tussionex which is prescribed 1 tsp every 12 hrs. It is slimy green and looks disgusting but tastes very sweet. It has 10mgs of hydrocodone which is time released. Very rarely prescribed. I just realized this is in response to another thread but didn't want to type it over. SORRY!!!!

[tom to Dan]

I'm truly suprised by how your doctor treated yor pain. You're going to be getting a pretty hefty dose of expectorant in additon to the hydrocodone. But I'm glad to hear that he took Dr Paytes' letter seriously. That's certainly a good sign. But I think Tussionex would be a much, much better choice than Hycotuss

look it up at"
www.rxlist.com

For what it's worth, abusing hycotus was one of the many forms I got hydrocodone from. The guaifennessin (don't know how to spell it) taken at the dose you need to get enough hydrocodone, will leave you with a dry, raspy throat. But it was not unbearable or, as far as I could tell, damaging to me. Let's say you won't have much flem (phlegm) for the next few days! But really, Dan, Tussionex is a much better choice. It's delivered in a resin that breaks down in true steady time release fashion. Used properly, it would be exceptionally effective for what you're dealing with. It's combined with a minor antihistimine that, frankly, I never noticed an effect from - even when I would drink 6 ounces of Tussionex at a time. I truly believe that Tussionex would make a legitimate pain relief option because of its time release nature. You can use it so that it is not narcotizing, that is, you don't get the instant "whack" of hydrocodone with Tussionex that you will from Hycotuss. If you experience a dry, raw-feeling throat nd bronchial feeling, that's the guafinessin.

But Tussionex seems to act quite evenly over about an 8-hour period. I usedit for legitmate pain on one occassion and was impressed by how consistent the effect was. In some ways, it reminds me of the long-half life behavior of methadone.

Any way, good luck and feel better, my friend.

[Frankinscense]

I thought about tussionex. I've had all three for acute brochitis/flu and had a problem with all three of them being very addicting.(hycodan/tuss) Never would have thought that I would be taking them for pain managemnt. I didn't like tussionex because of the 8mg of chlorphenhydramine. It has to much of a drying effect on me. I am very sensitive to all antihistamine. I never take them. They all effect me adversely. I have a few allergies and take quaifenisen on a daily basis. Quaifenisen is a very safe expectorant. In fact I take a medicine frequently called duratuss that contains 1600 mgm's quaifenisen. It has no CNS effect and causes very little constipation. That is one thing while on opiates you must not take medicine that may poteniate the drying effect and cause paraletic ileus.
Taking Tussionex drained me tremendously and caused awlful anticholergenic(belladonna alkaloid reactions) side effects. Thanks for the advice but I know all about liquid hydro.
FRom liquid lortab-to every hydro containing cough syrup in the PDR. That is one reason that I got the name "doc" because I am very familiar with the PDR(pill poppers digest).LOL! Your Friend, "doc" Dan

[petie]

I was doing about 15-20 mil of zanax for quite a while..
I stopped cold turkey and about 12 days later I flipped out
with nite-mares....halusinations...etc
Scared the **** outa me...checked myself into treatment center for the next nite and flipped out again...actually thought I died.....absolutley horrible...
Now I need help stopping Oxys...had 2 neck surgeries and beeb on them since last May....can anybody help??

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yes, many of us can help you to some extent. But you will have to listen to a lot of people along the way and make your own choices.  A lot of things in recovery might sound ridiculous to you at first, but do them anyway.  Don't rely on this website for anything more than information and advice.  The real healing takes place while working a real program with real people in the real world.  Try NA or AA or some form of group therapy based on spirituality and rebuilding your life.  Seek the company of people who have been in recovery for long periods of time and do what they tell you to do.  Find a sponsor that you admire and work with that person.  And work is the key word here.  It works as long as you work it!  Good luck to you.

[cindi]

In Re: to tussionx vs. Hycotuss or Vicodin tuss.  Did yiu knwo that vicodin tuss can actually precipitate a cough.  I have taken it for my frequent bouts of pneumonia.  After 2 or 3 4 oz little bottles in a years period my doc said no more or the DEA would be all over him.  But if you do not have a cough and take it jsut for the buzz then it can really cause some coughing.  Just aan afterthought   cindi

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I believe you have a point there.  I don't have a great deal of experience with Tussionex having had it only one time.  At that time I was so ill that I drank most of the bottle in one day and slept for a day afterwards.

Vicoden and Lorcet pills give me a dry, hacking cough at night.  I feel at times that I am drowning from a buildup of phlemn.  Plus, they cause my mouth to dry out.  I have had to keep a pitcher of water on my nightstand, otherwise I'd be up all night getting drinks of water.  J.B.

[cindi]

TO JB    Yeah  come to think of it  I have taken the vics and lorcet and started hacking at night.....Duh  never thought much of it  just a fried brain moment...cindi

[SA, M.D.]

The longer the use and the higher the dose, the more difficult it is to withdraw from BZs.  Gradual tapering on an outpatient basis tends to work better than abrupt inpatient detoxification protocols, in my experience.

DrSteve

http://www.HeadDocs.com

[chris]

I stopped drinking and librium cold turkey about 20 years ago and still have a headache...think I had seizures but don't know. My face changed shape even. I started back on Xanax for the head after 8 years sober and then went down to 8 Klonopin and now have been on four for about 6 or 7 years. Now I am on Busbar and Inderal and am tapering the Klonopin. I have heard using Gaba and other supplements may help this. I am also having cranial manipulation for the head. My brain is toxic ... this is what I have been told. Curse the people who prescribe this stuff and then leave you blinded! There is hope. Somebody reply to me? thanks.

[spook]

You are luckier than you realise.Most Prescribers do not know that Alprazolam(XANAX)is not that cross tolerant to other benzo`s,Clonazepam(KLONOPIN)is the only one suitable for substitution or alternate taper.(use half usual dose of Xanax you were taking).
About 70% of the cells in ones brain have the GABA complex(supramolecular) and therefore contain benzodizepine receptor sites that benzodiazepines(Xanax,Klonopin,Valium,etc) bind to,so taking these drugs represents a MAJOR change in brain function(Neurochemical balance).GABA complex is inhibitory and when you stop the drug 70%of your brain cells are overactive.Their is a cross tolerance between alcohol and benzo`s because alcohol also exerts some/most of its effects through the GABA system.

[Deene]

This is really Chris...Thank you for your comment to me. I wonder if I take Gaba 750mg daily if it will help my brain and me withdraw? Anyone done this? I got to the shrink with the same question today. Also Valerian Root?

[spook]

I do not know if GABA taken orally will help or the dose to take,I THINK it would not make it past the Blood-brain barrier and also be degraded in the stomach.It will certainly not REBUILD the GABA receptors.
Whereas GHB will make you feel better,it is just going to be addictive and stuff you up again.
I hope you can get through it all because it causes really bad ANXIETY and FATIQUE and relapse easy.
You are doing well and using the right medications to detox(Buspar and taper from Klonopin),just be patient.
You may want to finish off with Valerian root.and a GINGER beer.

[Deene]

Thanks for the encouragement. I wondered about adding to the mess right now anyway. What I have is a muscle contraction from hell in my head. I also have inderal for withdrawal ease...I have only had two panic attacks so far...and they were the result of conflict with my boyfriend who has to live through this with me ... I get tired an inflict it on him. Patience, ok.God bless the people who have patience with me.

[Gloria]

Buspar, Inderal, and a Klonopin taper are appropriate meds for getting off Xanax, as stated by Spook.  Once tapered off of the meds, if you are looking for a more natural approach to dealing with your panic attacks (if they persist), I have found the combination of inositol, magnesium, and vitamin B3 (as niacinamide), to be very helpful for some of my patients.  Gaba has its benefits for some, but as Spook stated, many times orally ingested GABA does not get to where it can do any good.  The other problem with GABA is that dosing is difficult.  What calms some, will cause incresed anxiety in others.  I have seen some practitioners use it with inositol and niacinamide.  For mild anxiety, 200-300 mg of magnesium 2-3 times/daily can be helpful.  Inositol has been used to help people with anxiety who have panic attacks.  The dosage has to be individualized, but up to 4 grams (4000 mg) divided in 3 doses/daily appears to control panic attacks.  Vitamin B3, as niacinamide, has been used to help individuals get through withdrawal from Valium-type drugs, in addition to anxiety relief.  The recommended dose of niacinamide (NOT NIACIN) is up to 500 mg., 4 times/daily.  Valerian root is also a great anxiety reliever, but you have to experiment with the dose.  Some people use Kava for anxiety--do not take Kava if you are still on a Benzo; also, the dose of Kava for anxiety is usually much less than that for insomnia.  I hope this helps.  Maria

[spook]

Do not under-estimate the value of Magnesium Supplements as Maria has stated.Maria sounds extremely well educated,esp in Physiology,Biochemistry.10/10

[rach28]

i have been drinking 160 units weekly 4 years dr has prescribed librium, i am still drinking as he knows an has give me 10mg an said take it 3 times a day, im not sure wether im meant to stop the drink completly or just reduce an use the librium instead a havin another beer

[wait2long]

you need to repost your question, this thread is old, its from 2001....go to bottom of this page and click on "go back to forum" ...then go to top of page and click "post new question",  you probably wont get any responses on this thread cuz its so old...and i dont know how to help you with your question...but i am sure someone on this forum can....

[Bambi McCarthy]

Wow Im having a hard time.  Im not even old and Ive been dignoised with Hep-c and Emphezima.  So my doctor is very sweet and has tried to help me and been given me 100 darvons once a month for 3 years and inbetween 60 vicodan 325"s  Plus I receive Hydromet syrup, thats pure drinkable hydrodocodone.  Im also on Zanex.  My problem is I almost lost my job because I was acting crazy cuz of all the meds.  Now Im trying to get off the darvocette and I find it much more dificult to get off of then the hydrocodiene.  That was nothing I don't even miss them.  But the darvon withdraw is killing me is it true it's synthetiz methadone.  I had to call my doctor to get more zanex to help me with the pain meds withdraws today.  I need advice quick on this darvon  stuff.  Will the Zanex work for the serious withdraws.  I feel like my eyes are popping out of my head and I feel very strange without my pain meds, cough syrup etc.....  Any advice with zanex helping opoite withdraw????  Help!

[Bambi McCarthy]

Sounds like your in the same situ as me.  Im on Hydrodocone tablets  325 as needed Plus Im on Hydromet syrup pureliquid  hydrodocone.  I can't seem to keep that I drink it in three days a whole bottle just to escape.  Im also on Zanex and Darvocette. I ran out of my pain pills I had 60 of each for one mont for both hydrodocan and the Darvocette can you believe it!  Ha!  I took all of that in less then 30 days.   My doctor is crazy what can I say but I love him cuz he tries to help me.    Then he refered me to a shrink that gave me more zanex and asked me what else I wanted.  Well to make a long story short I almost got fired from a good job cuz I was in cloud 9.  So I tried to take myself off all these pills and now Im suffering.  Tha HARDEST ONE IS DARVOCETTE  its like a synthatic methadone yes it's true.  It's a very old drug from the 60's and thoes are the best believe me.  Im getting all this **** for hep-c and emphezima but I work 40 hours a week.  Well I am trying to stop because my boss offered to fire me cuz she says I was acting crazy, ha ha!  NO KIDDIDNG!  But yes it was the Darvacette or Darvon that is a synthetiz methadone.  It's harder withdraws then hydrocodone believe me. I was takeing about 6 a day plus 6 a day of the hydro codiene and 1 bottle a week of hydrome syrup for over 2 years, he finally cut me down of that to twice a month but STILL the davrocette is the one killing me.  I have to get off of it I can't afford to take it the rest of my life and would eventually be turned down anyway after some more years.  I felt the exact way for the last three days my eyes popping out, on the verge of peranoid didn't want to leave my house  believe me I now what you are going through but it's proven that Zanex is good for opoiate withdraw.  Yes it's also habit forming but not as painful as all that other **** especially darvon.  I tried to taper my self off of it and I want crazy and had to call the doctor just tonight to go get the zanex to help me.  Course this is a nother doctor I see not the one giving me all the other stuff.
Man all I can say is that you have got to get something to help you or you'll have a nervous breakdown.  Go to a doctor and ask for librium it's great with just simple tylenol.  It's not fun but it will help if you are serious about getting off the Darvocette, its really ununderated drug and no one seems to remember it from the 60's as a like synthetic methadone, its in the PDR'S I promise you.  If you want more info e-mail me but post a comment back and i'll share it with you.  Im a female and was just dignoised with hep-c 4 weeks ago from a stupid tattoe.  Believe me Im going through the same thing you are.  I want to be free of all of this medication again but trying to taper myself off is hard without revealing to the doctors what you are going through.  Im actually scared to tell the doctors Im still  in fear they won't give me the opiotes and I won't make it without them. And remember Darvon is a dangerous mixture and not even considered an opiote its a synthetic methadone Im serious Ive looked it up. It's a very OLD drug and thats when they made the real thing. Hydrocodine has nothing on Darvocette or Darvon N.

[Bambi McCarthy]

Ask for Librium it will help you and much more painfull to get off.  If you can get it.  It's another very old drug and a good on but it will help your situation, it's light but not like zanex and Vailum so ask about Librium next time.

[Bambi McCarthy]

Ask for Librium, its much more traumatic and will taper you off gently without the seziers.  I went through Seconal, Tunal and Hydrocloride withdraw when I was about 24 and I had taken it every day for three years.  I flipped out and hallusinated  couldnt see straight.  When my Mom finally got me to the hospital after a 7 daywithdraw, I tried to do myself with nothing they said I could have died.  These are more serious then Zanex of course I guess if you take handfuls for years you'll find yourself in a hospital waking up from a coma after 2/weeks, but first you'll flip out.  Ok Im out, believe me I know a lot about this stuff.  I also know about Herion withdraw if anyone is interested.
Bambi

[Bambi McCarthy]